Sukkos: The Incredible Shaila of the Aruch Laner and the Lomdus of Rav Tzvi Pesach Frank

this torah class is brought to you by torahanytime.com i'll get to moyed a really wonderful shaila to contemplate is raised by the arakh linair in his vikurayaka we had the great privilege and slus to be at the caver of the archanera this past summer in hamburg and the yakov in the toys fest he brings and simultaneous the following shiloh what would the hell be if somebody picked up a lula of an asteroid before alois and so he did the micellar before this man and now it remained in his hands after this man so the question now is how do you define the mitzvah of taking rule of an s reg is the midst of taking the rule of an s like having it in your hand and in this case you had it in your hand at the correct man or is the mitzvah taking it and in this case you did the micellar before this man came this is the khakira of the arch and laura wants to prove that the mitzvah of taking the meenum is not the act of taking it but rather it being in your hand and the proof is because we know the halacha states and it's that someone who gives the lula to his friend you could give it to your friend and he could be i'd say in it now when your friend takes it from you it's not his yet so the moment he takes it so he's calling it now fine so that means when he had it in his hands originally he had in his hands a woven essence that wasn't his and then he was kinda it but now that it's his doesn't he have to do a micellar he never did an act of taking on a lulula vanessa that's his if the mitz was taking it he never took a lulu of an essex that's his it must be says the arkhan air merely having the dalai meenum in your hands is the mitzvah because if the mitzvah was taking it we would find that when you give your friend to my uh alluvius your friend would have to take it as a kenyan put it down and lift it up again as a micellar but the fact that we find we don't find that anything more has to be done than taking it that implies the mitzvah is merely having it in your hands however the arc laner says that this is not a raya perhaps really the mitzvah of dallas meaning is taking it i and there and therefore in that case if somebody took the dollar meaning before aloy sashakar and it continued to be in their hands after alois you would not be mikayem the mitzvah however why do we not find that when somebody hands over louis vanessa to their friends they have to take it for a kenyan put it down and then take it again as a micellar well it says it's not araya because it could be that it is a what we call kenyan that the acquisition and the taking happens simultaneously really you do have to do a myself but when you take your friend's live and esrag as you simultaneously are taking it and acquiring it that itself is the myself but in the case where you took the lu of an asteroid before allah the mighty was done before this man and in that case concludes until you put it down and then lift it up now in the holy save for microwave written by rav tsui pesach frank who by the way is the grandfather of the karn raj shashiva of khabra rav david kayen on the mccrory kurdish we have footnotes from david cohen's father of yosef kahin a dying and you shall have this close to when i was learning how to start to meet rabbi yosefkaian he so in the mccrory koi that she brings that in berlin said not only if somebody picks up a dalai meaning before aloysia with the arkhan but also if you want to be safe with the lulav of your friend on the first day of rosh hashanah it is correct to be mahada to first pick it up have in mind not to be say then put it down and take it a second time because it could be we do not apply the rule of gita it could be we do not say the concept of that the acquisition and the might happen simultaneously now in the comments of the hari koidesh or bjor sivkoin he says it could be that the reasoning of the rebecchai berlin is because the shack holds that by matana we do not say um even though the nasi voice and the science ask on him but nevertheless it is not to rely on the concept of um however rabbi yes of course asked a very interesting question on the arak and that is even if you do want to say that it's still somewhat problematic because let's think for a moment the noid and the rashas both write that what does it mean to take a lulu of an esrag yes it's an act of taking it but the act of taking it is accomplished as soon as it's in your hand even before you actually lift it up which means that the moment you took it you did the act of the mitzvah but the kenyan did not happen until you actually lifted it up so what's happening is the act of taking it the act of putting in your hand the act of likika is done before the kenyan so it's not bon is being performed before it's yours so it should not be effective because in effect you've done the act of the mitzvah before you acquired it unless says abrasive kind the kenyan here is not kenyan but it's kenyan medinad and kenyan denyad works as soon as it's merely in your hand which kenyan yad works unless it's actually protruding to the sides so this is some of the londos of the mitzvah of taking lulula vanessa which according to the arc linear the mitzvah is not to have it in your hand the mitzvah is to take it and therefore la mais to the arkhan arpaskins that if you took it before allah however in the case we're in the case where your friend gives it to you we apply the rationale of kenyanoi and kenyana you've just experienced another torah class brought to you by torahanytime.com