Medical Devices Certified For Shabbos

hello and welcome to star k's monthly webinar we're here at the starkey offices in baltimore maryland i'm rabbit sv goldberg your host and i'm joined today with our very own rabbi mordechai frankel who's director of the institute of alaka the starkey and also joined by shmuel glick who is the uh hello how are you i'm fine so me and me and rabbi franco are here in in uh in baltimore and starkey and schmoe's in brooklyn i believe right yeah your office in brooklyn okay and uh schmoe is the director of engineering of grommetship technologies which is the subject of today's discussion which is uh devices that's certified for uh for shabbos by starkey we're glad that you could join us this and all of our webinars are recorded and you can replay it on our vimeo channel or new we have it now on as a podcast also wherever you get your podcast also on the nokia radio which is the kosher the kosher device that has uh only kosher uh songs and information on it which is a good place for a kosher agency to be uh if you would like to call in and write for listen live right now i'm going to give you the phone numbers it's 267 and the code is 975-538-7690 okay robert franklin could you try and turn down your volume just a little bit because i can hear it from here it's a little bit of an echo okay um i want to recognize before we start that mr jonah and sasser the star k engineer has been very helpful in arranging all of the the uh devices and the sabbath modes and our ovens refrigerators these devices that we're going to talk about uh and for many many many years and we're grateful to his uh assistance uh in that now on the bottom right you see a chat a chat box so we're happy to take your questions i know we got a lot of questions on the email and i'm sure you have questions now as well so feel free to uh to chat there um if you could just chat that you hear us that would be the way we'll start a couple people could chat that you you do hear us would be great as long as one person hears us we know it's getting out there so we appreciate your you're doing that there is a fancy little feature here on the bottom you can translate okay good thanks for joining you can translate uh if you're joining from air to throw in another half an hour we're going to have on um uh another speaker from air to stroll if you want to translate into hebrew there is a translate box there or if ukrainian is your uh is your thing so you can translate to other languages okay let us let us begin about the uh the uh sabbath mode devices for uh uh for the gromit chip technologies um so um what kind of devices do you do we certify and what kind of devices do you make um basically anything that pertains to somebody who is elderly or unwell um they're sick the infirm um any medical type of device so it could be mobility devices medical devices stuff like that and we try to mitigate the the issues with shabbos as much as possible so for instance you can have a hospital bed hoists nebulizers um there are many different products that that are out there to help people and assist them with their mobility and um elevators stair lifts um and so on and um yeah we try to mitigate and minimize the hello chavez as much as possible and um that's what we do okay so we're gonna go through you you have a we're gonna go through your uh some of your devices that's the point robert franklin if you could just tell us in a in a minute or two what is the basis for most of the devices basically work collocationally on the same uh grama concept which is the name of schmoe's company grama chip so the concept of grammar is um when a person performs an action on shabbos which does not result in any immediate malacca happening occurring um if the melaka will only happen uh later on in time so then there's an indirect cause and effect that's grammar it's the classic example being that if there's a fire and a person puts water around the perimeter so eventually when the fire gets to the water the fire will get extinguished so he's not extinguishing it immediately directly so even though extinguishing a fire is a malacha extinguish it indirectly as a grammar and extinguishing a fire may be a terror prohibition but at least grammar on things which are rabbinically prohibited for the sake of a caller an unwell person or an infirm person is permitted so therefore grammar technology grammar devices rely on the fact that there's no immediate response and um the only um historium again are things which are forbidden major abundant and grown grammar foreign okay so we know most people are familiar like with hospitals like charizardic where they have all sorts of devices to work in this way right yeah right frankly that's what they do right right right this is not something that the starkey invented right this was um this was encourage the hospital there in israel to uh to um to to create these devices right so it's reminding us here on the on the chat that um really the impetus for this webinar was that in our latest caches currents robert frankel wrote an article about uh the shabbato scooter who is certified by the company again we're going to have on in about a half an hour um and you know you can get this if you go to our website if you haven't seen it yet you can get a a uh a copy of that of that article and the whole cautious currency and all our previous cautious currents for the past 150 years okay um so shimo let's take a look at the at the uh at the presentation that you sent let me bring it up here and you'll tell me what you want to see but there's one picture i i want to show first if that's okay and that is this picture right here so we can see right there you have uh yourself heinemann schlita and rabbi franco are busy i don't know what kind of ice is there i i'm not even sure i think that was the nebulizer okay and uh and and yours truly is taking the picture so i i find these these these very interesting also we have to have fun in casuals right we can't just be has to be fun so this is i was i was i was invited and i came and i took the picture okay let's go back to the beginning of your presentation uh this is your front page okay okay we're looking at over here um you're looking at our new latest product um it's shabbos elevators which have been around for a long time but what we do is we like really go down to the very end and make sure that um there are various issues with regular sabbath modes that are um included with the companies there first of all there's no oversight basically all of the elevators that i've seen that are done by the companies only address the issue that you don't have to press buttons it goes from floor to floor opens the door and closes the door and then goes to the next floor so it's basically like um a dumb waiter going instead of it's just as if you go into the just like you go into the elevator and press all of the buttons and when it reaches the last floor it does that again um there are many issues um first of all uh when you get into the door there are infrared sensors that that see if there's an obstacle and obstruction to let the doors uh to let the controller know not to close the doors so even if the door is scheduled to remain open for a certain amount of time but you are actuating relays um and visible led lights in the control room which might be an issue um some some elevators even have an audible sound when you go as you walk through them the doors um so we try to take care of all these things and obviously it's for a cola it's for somebody that can have difficulty walking the steps um what kind of place would that be in the whole person's home or in the hospital so yeah so in a residential person elderly person um or uh and uh yeah in a hospital i have not done hospitals yet with the elevators um but yeah mainly residential i mean when it's a public setting it gets a little tricky um because some people might think that it's for anybody but yeah you're you're only doing it for colin right yes okay what do we have here what is this this is for the stairlift system um so their stair lifts are the basics of the stairlift is it's a chair that's attached to a rail that goes up and down the steps it climbs up the steps through the rail um now there are two types there's a straight one there's a curved one that curves around corners um so what we do is so people who are handicapped or have mobility issues use that to get up and down the steps what we did is either we have a wired um controller that works with a grammar or a wireless remote that works with the grammar we also make sure that there's no display changes or beeps that happen when you rotate the seat or basically anything that you do with a chair everything is with a grammar and nothing is direct and um so we mitigate that again like robert franco said it's it's basically a gurama on a rabban um and for a hollow that's that's mother okay so um when when they press this one of these buttons here like the up button so there's a delay right that's the idea it doesn't start right away so we have a few um it's not just a delay i mean rabbi heinemann is in certain cases where where um we could only have a delay that's that that's sufficient um but we added a few more things there's a degree of randomness there is uh specific times when it checks the button there's indicators telling you when you could press the button and when you can't press the button there is um you know so even if somebody is just jams down the button at any time you're still using a grammar but there are different types of grammars and we implement all of them when possible so let me ask you so is this something you can i mean you make on a mass level each one is you know needs to be installed and configured individually do you sell your own or you reconfigure what they have okay so so are you referring to stair lifts and yeah let's say okay still says there's just like six seven manufacturers they all function very similarly but each have their own caveats they the some of them are are um radio remotes work with the radio they're like you're like you cut the key fob from your car some works with infrared remotes that work like a television remote um so we design our products uh accordingly i mean uh so so each one is individual then you have to yeah but each type each type of stairlift i already know oh you need this type of board that needs this type of programming so yeah um i i did not manage to narrow it down okay these are the nebulizers let's talk about that for a minute how does it work okay so if the nebulizers how does it work first we have to discuss what the issues are right okay so obviously if somebody is in a life-threatening situation i mean you could you could uh be michael shabbos without an issue the issue is really when it's more of like a treatment or if somebody knows they will need the nebulizer three times a day or twice throughout travis at that point it's not likely that there's a real header if there's another way to it's not you know it's it's much better if you could find a way how to do it in a way that's more permissible there's another issue with um nebulizers in particular because once it's on and you use it what is the premise of uh permitting the the the turning it off like why should you be allowed to turn off now there are some that are um that say that some posts can uh say that that it's um because you might need to use it again or it might break burn out so what i did over here is it works with the grammar it um also the same thing as before it has a button that's in a buy stable state so it checks the button every few certain amount of time um tells you when you could press the button when you can't and the button stays in place either in or out and any state change turns turns on the nebulizer with a delay with a drama again this is like a three-step process um and also i this optional auto off-timer where automatically when you're turning on which you're allowed to do obviously it will turn off at a preset amount of time after that and you'll be allowed to use it again later okay so let's go through some of the questions annie is asking after you explain the devices please let us know if they're available in canada and who sells them the border is very tricky very tricky the borders so some devices have you traveled up to canada to do it yeah i've done so so um i've done so um on a few occasions but the board is tricky in terms of shipping like the the like the cut first of all things get lost um customs is a nightmare um but yeah but uh we do service canada um we have to fill up the fill out the proper forms and whatnot but it's a little more complicated but yeah they can contact they can contact uh because they can contact you yeah um okay and now he is discussing the next moshe is talking about the scooters which we're going to get to in this later half uh okay let's see what about the initial switch that starts the the delay not sure what the question is yeah they want to know that you're miss probably what that person is asking is um when you press the button you are completing a circuit um you're initiating something right away and the answer to that is that first of all um it's not necessarily so i'm hearing feedback from somebody so i don't know um it's not necessarily so because um when you press the button i could make it in a way that it's actually disconnected from anything from like with a relay but i was told by rav heinemann and others that it's not necessary as long as pressing the button now does not start any process um that's fine um so what we do is it doesn't start any visible process but even non-visible if it's programmed in a way that it's ignoring the inputs of the switch i could turn it on and off a million times at that point and the way a computer shift works it cycles thousands of time in like let's say eight mega eight million times a second um so each time and it's ignoring that it's not going down that exit on the highway so essentially i'm not really doing anything i see okay now here's the question that um i think that wants to know or you can switch it on to shabbos mode on shabbos or do you have to do that before shabbos that sounds like what the person's so the and the nebulizer just for ease of use the way that i have a shabbos weekday mode um it automatically goes into shabbos mode by default when you plug in the nebulizer for the first 10 seconds it's in weekday mode so if you need to use it press the button will turn on right away if you do not use it within the first 10 seconds it automatically enters chavez mode and then it's just with a grammar and some people use it even during the week in the shabbos mode because okay you have to wait uh 30 seconds or so till it starts but and it has the auto off so they they don't need to bother turning it off it turns off by itself they know they're done so yeah but the short answer is yes it has a weak demo and a shabbos mode and no you cannot plug it in on shabbos it has to be plugged in before shabbos robert frankel uh simcoe is asking what would constitute a holder for the elevator as someone who has leg issues climbing too many stairs included in it or someone not not feeling well yeah if some if somebody um if somebody's a healthy you know able person um and they're able to climb steps then you know with ease then they should do that but yes so there are some people especially elderly people that they find it very difficult to go up and down the steps um and it and it's um and it limits their ability to to go out and you know get out in public so for those people they um they they really need the elevator in order to be able to to turn to um get up get up and about so um so so that they would they would be uh able to use this so a couple of people jonathan and wolf are asking questions we got a number of questions about cpac i think that that's probably a very very common device that people use it's a i mean um i just know i don't know that much about it i know that you rabosa you know much more about how what it's for and how it works it's a device that people put on their their face at night to help them sleep it provides air pressure when they have trouble sleeping uh and their sleep apnea and we said we got we got what are the luckiest of using these machines for sleep apnea on chopin youngtif i use a cpap when i sleep um what happens if it accidentally gets unplugged on shabbos can i can i or i forgot to plug it in can i plug it in can you discuss where the cpap machines may be used on javas and and and so on so i want to i do want to i know we don't certify a cpap machine right uh small no you don't uh we could work on it but uh as of now uh we're in discussion but i we don't i don't see the real um need for that there's so many different types of cpap machines and the amount that i could mitigate is only the turning on and off and there is a automatic most cpap machines have automatic mode where you just start breathing and turns on by itself and it's with a takes about three seconds to turn on so we'll have to um you're saying it's not really applicable to really certified such a machine but robbie frankel i put up your article that you wrote a while ago about why our behind them in allows use of it anyway so give us one uh give us a quickie on on that quick review that's what i was alluding to yeah yeah right in in the long term see in the long term sleep apnea is a serious condition um for any one night a person may be able to forego the cpap machine but in the long term it has uh seriousness it can potentially have serious negative effects and to skip using it once a week a person shouldn't do that unless they really get the okay from their doctor if the doctor says that they need it um then then they should use it again there are certain things they can do to mitigate the sharpest issues but they are limited because by its very nature many of the cpap machines respond to the person's breeding and that's the way they work so you can't really change that um again you can as as as as as uh as was said you can um maybe uh when switching the on back that one can one can work on uh making that be through a grammar but the the actual working of the machine itself um you know that's gonna respond to the person's breathing right okay we'll go back to the to the machine to the devices what is this uh we're showing here suction machine yeah this is a suction machine used for um people that uh patients that have a tracheostomy um it's a um and then you have suction um every few hours to even every every half an hour depending on the patient so this is a perfect example of something that is like if you don't do it the person is in a real sakana um where yeah it's a life it could lead to a life-threatening situation but you know that you're going to be using it throughout travis many many times so yeah obviously if there's no choice and there's no shabbos mode available then you could use it with hashino or even there i mean somebody should consult their rabbi but um yeah we developed something that you could use it will stay on for 30 seconds as long as it takes to suction the patient and it'll turn off so we take care of all of those issues without needing to come on to the leniencies and this this is a hospital bed um it's uh this is one of the examples we actually improved over the original design of most hospital beds most hospital beds have this long cord um remote control where you could adjust the head and the headrest and the footrest um and also some of them it's a fully electric bed the height of the bed itself um this is a wireless remote controller and what you see on your left you see um the remote uh that's our remote on the right you see the controller and that's connected to the bed and you could wirelessly control the the eight could wirelessly control the bed from the other side of the room that's something that we added the wireless capability but um it has a wiki mode and a javascript and the way the so like i said before there are different ways how to make a chavez mode this cannot be used with a regular grammar because then it will be very hard to adjust the exact way the bed the position of the bed so what we have over here there's like a rolling delay it's a rolling drama basically it's always recording whatever you're pressing and for the duration and it's going to play back um if you say i mean you have had chats in the past i'm on zoom i'm sure and you know what latency means this is basically induced latency into the system where there is a latency enough to be considered the grammar but it's going to do exactly what you told it to do right so you're working closely with rabbi franco and rabbi heinemann to you know if you have any shyla's how to how to get it to go right so they'll answer your you know what's necessary what's not this let me ask you with all these with all these devices um did do you do you do people tell you how it changed their life like they can now do things that they couldn't do before um nurse clause here we have all over here all the time i i i i just it's so emotional sometimes to listen to the voicemails and and um some people i encourage them to like oh wow this sounds very good leave a review but really i don't even really i get so many emails and voicemails and sometimes letters in the mail how that their 95 year old father didn't go to schule in four years and especially during the the the pandemic when so many people were so eager to get back out and this really enabled them to to um yeah you know they couldn't leave their house they couldn't they couldn't go to the children for shabbos so this is like something really helped this is this is a shabbos recliner maybe this is it this looks like uh never reclined like you see over there it's for medical use only and one people can make a mistake that it's for leisure um but it's it's this is the type of recliner that helps somebody get up if they sit down they have trouble getting up and some people use this as a bed um so for the people that use this as a bed and that's how they could get out of bed they have their big full risk so they use this to sort of sit down and then lay down and then get back up right so they could use this for obviously they should consult with starkey or their local orthodox rabbi if their they meet the criteria on that and we have a stair lift we talked about that before ceiling lift go back for a second that's a portable stairlift that yes um it's basically a basically a folding chair on wheels which has if you look in the back it has these tracks that climb up we don't make we don't make any of this stuff i mean we buy either have a customer buy or buy it from the company but we modified for for shabbos use um but this particular thing is a an amazing innovation and you could basically have a mobile stair lift wherever you go so what does that mean it climbs stairs or is it attached it climbs stairs and you fold it up goes into the trunk of the car let's say a parent wants to go to the to to to the the child for chavez um and yeah they they have steps and they could use this to climb up the steps like basically somebody stand behind the patient and just help and it does the climbing for you wow okay um here's your contact information people can gromachip.com no i think the name is great yeah perfect it was very good well some people think it's uh something to do with the grandma or uh but yeah other than that it's a great name yeah okay how long have you been doing this uh uh about ten years time fives okay now let me just get some more of the questions here one second more about cpap machines um and so i i i would recommend if you have a question that we can't get to because we have a busy uh busy discussion you can you can call rabbi frankel uh or email him at halacha k.org and frank we'll get back to you about specific types of of cpaps zev says old-fashioned hospital beds used to work with a mechanical crank no electricity needed that's the best all cars used to work that way too what old cars used to work like i i would just can i just add i would just i would just tell the the listeners that they should know that uh i get feedback which moves a pleasure to work with people on people uh people people contact me too to tell me how happy they are um he's he's maybe one can trust whatever he says both in terms of the um you know the the the device knowledge and also the knowledge that she gives over properly and um people are very very happy thank you i never you first time you're telling me that but okay some unsolicited um recommendation terrific okay so there are a couple of people asking about the scooters i don't think we should avoid it um and [Music] we know that uh that we can see from your ads that that you do have a scooter uh schmoe but starcade doesn't certify it um i would just ask robert frankel just to to to discuss in in just one second why why is that and what what you know what the issue was is that occasional that's totally fine okay so scooters scooters have a have an issue which is very hard to get around which is that um when a person is driving a scooter and they want to stop so if it works through drama and there's going to be a five second delay then in between the time that they stop using the scooter and it's actually when they take the finger off the throttle and it stops during those five seconds they can very easily crash so therefore the person is very limited in their ability to make uh scooters um which are fully grammar compliant um and um at least at least following were the way they were behind when we wanted to be um and that was the issue that we ran up against so so so one of the the riders here the the the texters mentioned that uh in your ad you can see that the scooter is on one side of the page and the star k is on the other side um no yeah we used to do it according it was it was basically a a decision that i made um to rely on another of that that is it was a little bit more lenient with that um because of my my concerns um apparently the the the other company um shabato did solve the problem they have their own line of scooters with uh handbrakes and stuff and that's that's fine with me i yeah i just think there's different methods there's different scooters work in different ways the ones that the scooters that i have been working with are don't have hand brakes so um yeah the way the approach will be totally different and that's why with the scooters that i um do is relies on a different hectare completely and that's why i want to make it very um apparent that while most of our products are starchy certified as well some products are not and again this is just the difference in opinion like everything else is the there is more lenient thing especially when it comes to by the way especially when it comes to column uh there's so many different degrees of of of people so many degrees of leniency or or uh being um um yeah so so that's that's what we went um we went with another hatchery with that product right you know even though it's not stock i approved it does have a hamster from from a well recognized pro sake you know yes right okay so that's a good segue into our next i know that uh rafi david is is uh is is waiting to join us so if i could ask you rafi to to turn on your uh your screen so we can we can we can uh speak with you as well um and meanwhile rabbi frank let's go through some of these other quotes what about hearings hearing aids on java we got a number of questions about how you use hearing aids taking them off before bed putting them back on you know and so on hi rafi how are you hi okay just one second we're just finishing up we're going to finish up so rabbi franco you have you have uh some information about the hearing aids right yeah so the so the jewish does that there's um does a there's an organization for jewish death um and they put out a booklet which was written by rabbi chakra targets the wrath of the goddess israel of green spring in baltimore um and it's available online it's called the taurus hakhirish guides book it's tauros t-o-r-a-s hey um sorry h-a-c-h-e-r-e-s-h the chorus guidebook it's the it's online you can google it and it has uh ample information about um about hearing aids logic and practical advice um by opioid by a well-respected pose sake so so i just said rabbi miller one of our colleagues is listening here also he's moderating our chat robbie miller if you can find that and put up the link that would be great if you could find that online and figure out where it is okay i can send him i can i can send him the link okay fine then we'll put it up so anybody can can get that if they need has all the halachus um it's a little bit beyond the discussion that we're having today shmuel thank you so much for joining us my pleasure it was really very very very informative thank you and you got a good last comment from every franco as well thank you take care take care be well bye-bye okay rafi how are you we see you but you're stuck and we i can't hear you something between there's some break between us and and israel let me see what the issue is i'm not sure but hopefully you can hear us and you can uh reboot yourself okay um so rafi is the ceo of oh he's going to come back in i guess he's going to come back in hold on all right let me look for him here i sent robin miller the link to that article let me okay great let me see i think i let him in now again okay we'll try to get him back are you there now you okay hi okay all right right so so rafi is the ceo of uh of the uh of the uh uh mobility scooters what's that moving life yes moving live uh shabbato scooters and we're glad to have you here and um we were also glad to when you came to our office let me show that these pictures here there you are right there behind him in uh in his you know his in inimitable way uh checking out the scooter and the next team is mr and sasser next to him is is uh our president like the pollock and there's robert franco as well we're all looking at the scooters and um yours truly again is taking the picture because i like to these we have to have some fun in the office right let me show you here while we're doing this let me just show you this little piece over here um where is that here we go so i got a chance to uh try it okay so um ralphie tell us a little bit about the background like how did you get into scooters why why scooters so in general uh the the gentleman who founded the company was nino he was uh suffering from polio all his life and decided that all the scooters out there are not good enough so they went and designed a totally different travel scooter a folding scooter so a scooter that would be very different than all the other products on the market you can split it into two parts you can easily lift it to put it uh like in your trunk uh when it opens up it's quite big when you fold it it becomes a very small suitcase so the the form factor goes from the smallest size possible when the scooter is folded and when you are opening it and unfolding it it's like magic it's like uh opens up to a full-size scooter the company started selling worldwide let's say about six years ago so we're selling uh let's in the us in israel in dubai we're just having a trade show now in finland uh we just finished a trade show in brazil so we're selling everywhere about three years ago when i joined the company we were just starting to change the controller so we were developing a new version of auto which is our scooter called the auto sports and within this process we decided to change the controller now the controlling unit is let's call it the brain power of the entire unit most scooters in the world actually rely on a bot controller so it's like a controller you go to one of the few companies that sell controllers you buy a product off the shelf with moving life the way we do things we kind of like to be very particular so we designed our own controller once we did that i understood there was a possibility to make a totally new version of a shabbat scooter because all the shabbat scooters until that time were very much you take a scooter then you add a bunch of electronics on top of what's on the scooter itself and even within those uh combination of adding electronics to another product that already has electronics it's not always seamless once we design the controller by ourselves and we program the code of what it's supposed to do on shovels in the controller itself it's a totally new uh way of doing things okay i just wanted to show you this is your you sent me this uh this uh video here i'm going to show the uh the video that uh that you that you have on the screen so people get an idea people aren't familiar you can get an idea of what it's like so here goes it's coming from from youtube there are a few disclaimers it's coming from youtube some people have youtube disabled so you won't be able to see it second of all there's some background music which um the rabonum tell me is okay because it's even though it's the omer but it's just not really important but if you want you can turn off your sound for the duration it's just it's just for a minute so we'll just take a look at the scooter get an idea foreign [Music] foreign [Music] okay so that's um that's that's uh that's what it looks like that that that was non-shabbos right people driving yes yes it was not filmed on travis right so um and uh so let me ask you let me ask you a question rafi when people i was just thinking about some of my we've had some inquiries some you know some good inquiries about it from people asking us about it do you drive this on the sidewalk do you drive it in the street what what how do you where would you go okay so i uh i myself live in jerusalem you know uh in your life most you know in front of neighborhoods the road is closed on shabbos right so you can actually drive the product uh on the road um i know that you should be in israel people drive it you know uh from their house into the shul actually they stay sitting on it even during uh governing because it's very difficult for them to stand up and move uh i mean my in-laws live in muncie and i know that over there the distances between the shul and uh and someone's house can be very far and uh you need to drive it on uh either on the sidewalk or on the road so it really depends on where you live and uh and how far you are from and how you get there right so rob i want to ask frankel to address the um what we're talking about before about the stopping of the scooter uh we were talking before rafi came on about the scooter how it stops so what's different over here so the moving life scooters have this unique feature that they have mechanical brakes similar to the brakes on a bicycle that you when you you know you press down and uh something presses against the brakes which uh which uh starts uh stunning presses against the wheel which stops the wheel from moving that's purely mechanical a person can do that in shabbos um nothing there's no there's no electricity involved so um so that way the the scooter can stop right away uh immediately without having to rely on any um drama or anything like that because there's no there's no electricity involved right so jacob here on the chat is asking once a person is in motion wouldn't be okay to break right away since it's a sakana or should one not put themselves in that situation well that was exactly the problem is that almost always it's going to be a situation where you have to stop now you don't want to hit somebody so or hit something so if you're if you're if you're pressing a grommet switch and it's gonna stop in in five or ten feet yes so then you would have to break uh you know instantaneously and just to to do that you know to rely on that every time you're going out riding your scooter is what uh behind me had a problem which which moving life does not have that problem because it's mechanical right right let me see over here we have some more pictures here rafi let's see uh let me just take a look at what else we have over here um well here's a picture of the of the scooter that we saw is up close that we saw we have beyond is that it's fully functional and it's not in play it's not word it's plug and play so you don't have to make any mechanical or any electronical uh changes on the item in order to turn it from a regular ato sport scooter into a shabbat scooter the only thing you need is the remote control the software was already programmed within the item so show us what okay i'm going to put you on one second let me put you on like this go ahead show us what the remote control looks like so this is the remote control you plug this into the usb switch before showers you put you turn it on before shutters and uh once it's in troubles mode the only things you are using are these buttons here and the throttle and i will explain a little bit more about the throttle afterwards these buttons here will allow you to turn on the light and maybe frankel can explain we supported land if you can use the light if you cannot use the light on on javas because again there's a sakona if if you live in a place that's very dark then of course all the switches here they work with gamma it's not just a delay it's a delay and uh actually works randomly on those buttons here so the only ones that are not working with the pure drama which is delay plus randomness and just have a delay is the throttle itself because over there was uh quite a lot of uh programming to get into work uh every time that you push down on the throttle there will be a delay before you start driving and every time you release the throttle it will be a delay before actually you feel the scooter stopping during this time you use the mechanical brake and this is actually what was special about the the the process with starkey so raphael i want to i want you to mention the story that you told me before when we were talking yes yes it was a pleasure for us to come visit uh starkey headquarters and uh we we met with the of heinemann uh i think i came with myself and a gentleman named adi shamil who runs the entire us sales marketing operations for us and he's from kibbutz uh i think we spent probably i think we spent probably a good hour with the man checking the various buttons checking asking a lot of questions on how it works and uh trying it on and uh asking even more questions and it was very detailed uh discussion at a certain point uh i think there was a urgent phone call it was right in the middle of of kovit and someone came in and think asked a question about aloha if you can connect someone to a breathing machine and of course the vitamin answered quite fast and my colleague adi said oh how can it be that of heidemann answers so fast about this and spent an hour on his scooter it was uh to say yeah very shocking for him and i mean of course i'm sure that weinman gets many questions like this every day and checks the scooter once in a while so right it's great it's true right so he got as i i found it interesting he got a life and death question so he answered it off the off the cuff not off the cuff but of course based on his many years of of of of understanding and the scooter is like you know we have to get because it's a new thing for us so therefore okay let's take some of the questions if we could um i think moshe was asking about different types of scooters what's the difference we're not we can't get into that now but if you want you can try to uh call us after the after the show call rabbi frankel uh i think i think it's important to note that movie life is unique in that they make the shabbos mode they also make the scooter themselves so this is not this is not like other shabbos mode devices which are some person p backing onto a product made without you know by a completely different company they're they have complete control over the their programming because they're the ones that make the device they're in a very unique position that they're able to program it exactly as they would like it to be right can you give us a phone number to call for the scooter uh i i i'm sure you could right but what's the the website is what movinglife.com the website that you would log on is called folding scooter store foldingscooterstore.com folding scooterscore.com folding scooting scooters oh falling scooter what's up rafi if you could so that way people will will know uh what it is um rabbi frank this is for you if you have a header to use the scooter on shabbos can only be used for dvar mitzvah like going to shul or even for visiting family or getting fresh air what is it what about the older heidemann feels it can be used not just for going to shore but also for other uh other uh uh other uses as well it's important for such a person to be able to go out and not uh be locked into his house overshadows and drive behind him and allows the person to go it to go visit people um he's fine with ants so you know when it first came out robert frankel i want to tell you that to me it seemed a little funny people riding on you know in schools but i i've i've really through through covet i really uh started thinking about it more when we saw how people staying home you know especially elderly people how much it affected them you know they can't go out they're stuck at home they can't go to school they can't meet their friends it really had it it has a tremendous effect on their on their health and uh in in in a sense it's like a sakura safascious over time having to stay home and and so they're behind them and was mater this it's really a great a great a great use for them very true miriam is asking can the scooter raffi this for you can a scooter go up and down hills is the speed adjustable can you gradually slow down i can't hear you hello hello can you hear me now yes so the scooter of course can go up and down we decided that on on shabbos you shouldn't be in a hurry so there's uh a setting of one and two uh so during the week you can go up six miles per hour on travis it's very limited also we're very concerned about people's safety so we don't want to let them go too fast because we remember that it takes a couple of seconds to slow down and you need to use the brake so on shuttles you can only use it on one and two uh it's it's good enough you would be uh walking next to uh you know driving next to someone who's walking it's about walking distance a lot walking speed two speeds right so which let's say you're on the faster speed so then you're going the speed of somebody walking right and then yes then when you want to when you're closer to i the way i envision it when you get closer to like where people might be like in shul or then you would you would go to the slower speed but that's also a grammar right that also works with a delay yes so the button that you would use is uh this one here with the plus and this works uh with drama right of course you can go up and down the hills uh we the scooter is regulated to six degrees and and this is uh you know must buy the regulation uh but in terms of the climbing power it's uh it's quite strong it's uh during shadows and during the week it's uh it's the best travel scooter you can get so this is the nice thing about ato that during the week you are getting possibly the best portable scooter on the market and you know you can use it on travis as well you don't need to uh how to say uh using your product just because you want to have a shuttle scooter right okay simcoe is asking can it be used if the disability is only temporary or is it better to stay home for that time uh for that time period so that's rabbi frankel can you yeah that that's a question which person will have to you know would it be a case-by-case basis um it's it's not it depends on um you know how temporary is temporary how how great is the needs um a person would have to discuss it with their own personality frankly in your article you point out that even the use of it should be should be has to be approved by your your own personal rob or your rabbi um and the abundant town you know to make sure that everybody is on board with it well i think this is important that again it's only for a whole and um some communities are open to having scooters um for holland some communities are not of course some schools uh are comfortable having people come to their shoals with scooters some shows are not a person has to discuss it with his own local orthodox rabbis okay um let me just take a look here we have some more this is this is a sign that we go on the on the back of your scooter right you have one rafi yes so this is the sign that that you all get uh from design actually so it's a it's on it's on the back of the scooter when you use it on on chavers and and so right behind them like people put that sign on so people know that it's uh they're not just you know writing regularly but everyone can see it right always a good thing that people know that you are going to shabbat and uh on a scooter to show they can see that there's a sign in the back and then it's certified who is certified by the serial number of the product right okay i think let me see here's another picture with her heinemann uh meeting with you and uh you know people turn to people always turn into a heinemann from account for you know electronic or mechanical devices because he has a real understanding of how how they work and what what is necessary to uh to get it you know to be to be uh to be approved so so i can tell you we didn't pass from the first time so the first time we came to uh to start kn we showed the product the weinerman uh has to make some changes uh in in the way the product works especially the way the throttle and the mechanical brake work together uh it took us a couple of months we had to come back and show it again uh there was programming work to be done there was a lot of programming work to be done and i think uh second and third time around we uh like he he approved the product after testing it and the issues with this and and how it works and how the electronics work and what's the problem with the throttle uh itself andy is asking can you add a motor program for shabbos to the manual wheelchair wheelchair to make it work i'm not sure what that means i mean the manual wheelchair is not motorized so i'm not sure what i understand the question what the the answer is that uh our product it works it's it's it's very specially made to work without scooter you cannot use it uh in conjuring with any other product on the market it works only without all and uh the the reason why it works only with auto is because of the combination between the mechanics and the electronics and the controller only when you combine all those things can you make a truly uh well working like sharper scooter right right um okay i mean i think we basically covered the the topography is there anything else you want to add that we didn't discuss no i just uh say thank you again to star k [Applause] and we're very happy to be able to you know to help people on showers i think it's uh it's very important i mean i i know a gentleman who used to go every shabbos day he used to start walking to school and then he sat on a bench for two three hours and went back home i think that this is a story that really uh like touched my heart and when i asked him like why he said i didn't want to stay home i wanted to try to do the show but i never made it and uh i think it's uh it it's very important to to to understand that uh going to school socializing with people like i think when like some scooters were invented the reason was that trouble should not be like a punishment you should not have to stay home and uh absolutely was the one who said he shouldn't you know have to uh stay home in a punishment and travels it should be a pleasurable experience right and there's a real need for products like this right okay well rafi i want to thank you for joining us and uh wish you much uh much hatslach and i'm sure we'll be we'll be in touch you know uh when you come out with improvements or changes you'll be in touch with robert frankel and we have to get right behind him into to approve it so uh yeah yes thank you thank you so much for joining us bye-bye okay so what i what what i would like uh to do what i would uh what i would like to do rabbi franco is to go through some of the questions that we got uh if we could just talk ourselves for a couple of minutes sure or if anybody has any other um questions here here let's see what does a scooter weigh maxine is asking okay i don't know exactly what it weighs it's head it's a little it's a heavy it's not light but it's but it but it can be taken apart that it can be taken apart right can be taken apart into two pieces each one of which is manageable right um that that's uh unique to i think pretty much unique to this school that's it's very very very well designed uh to be to be to fold up and to manage a manageable cat like you can you can take it on a plane um you know it's it's especially designed for that very nice features okay how widely acceptable miriam is asking his use of the scooter i haven't seen it in my community how did white in acceptance well that's what you mentioned before every franco we're not necessarily trying to widen the acceptance it depends on their abundance in the community well this this school just just you know just very recently uh became starkey approved so we'll have to see we'll see we'll see uh we'll see what the interest is right okay let's go to uh some of the some of the uh questions that we have we talked about cpap we sent you the article and you can follow with robert frankel the hearing aids did we get that link up was the link no uh did you put up the link for the article robby frankel um i sent it to robin mill i sent it to you oh you send it to me okay the link yeah okay one second we put it up right now uh email i emailed it to you yep i got it okay we'll put it up now so that way everybody who needs it can have it okay that's the link for the people for people in wanted from it's about hearing aids and let's see what else we got um okay there's a medical alert device called lively which i'm not familiar with uh the device has to be recharged each night when you put in the charger removed from the charger a ring is emitted i suppose this device is uh is a kind that that that has a button on it that alerts the medical you know if something is a person would need uh solar you know that that would be the purpose of this device so when you put into the charger and when you remove it it makes a noise a ring to alert to the you know the one possible solution is to put the recharger on it on a shabbos time clock so that um it doesn't um it doesn't um you know activate right away when you put the when you put the device in or take out okay um okay this question is about glucometers insulin pumps okay uh these are all um do you wanna do you wanna get into that rabbi rabbi frank can you discuss insulin pumps carrying them as well as entering carbohydrate into carbohydrate information on the screen um yeah so um obviously diabetes is a is a very serious uh potentially potentially very serious it's something which person has to manage person has to discuss with his doctor whether you know to what extent uh it's necessary to to overshare this you know if it is if it's necessary for a person to check their blood sugar levels and the doctor feels as medically necessary they should do that on shabbos they should do it with the shinri in a someone's unusual way um they should um when they uh when they you know when they have to squeeze the blood out of their finger they should prick their finger with additionally they should try to squeeze the blood out where they shouldn't only press their finger against the table um when they put the strip in the device um they should they should put the strip in you know the reading device put the strip in first and then turn the device on with the shimmery um if possible again um you know um in the place of sakana person can do uh anything but uh if there isn't any immediate immediate danger then then we would try to we would we would we would suggest doing with the shinnoi or if possible getting an andrew to do it but usually that's not so easy did you write an article about uh insulin pumps no i did not there is there is a book by rabbi botner aloha right he talks about it on page 184 obviously right that's uh that's a good reference thank you i want to thank everybody for joining us really been uh i think a nice discussion of the of the the medical devices you see what the starkey is doing um and um you know again want to thank everybody who joined us uh shmuel glick rafi david and again uh of course remember frankel thank you thank you and and uh mr jonah and sasser are an engineer i was always always there you know to help us figure out what how these things work and uh and to certify them and rabbi miller for helping me with the with the chat and i want to mention again that these are these videos are recorded and will be up on our uh our webpage and our vimeo channel just search vimeo star kosher or go to our website and also now as a podcast so wherever you see wherever you get your podcast you can search for it's called the kosher conversation uh you look for that star k kosher conversation that should bring up these uh you could listen to it in your car or wherever wherever you are um of course you don't have all the video props but probably you get the idea anyway if anybody has any further questions you can email us at info at stardashk.org or call us 410-484-4110 our busy front desk staff is waiting for your call thanks everyone for joining uh if you joined us today you will be signed up to our emails about these about these uh webinars the next uh the next webinar and uh and we hope that you'll join us again take care everyone be well bye-bye