Chickenar (11/12/2012)

webinar it seems that you could join with us this evening we're here in the Starkey offices in Baltimore who is well known throughout the world expert on srita and of course many other areas I'm Steve Goldberg I'm uh I'm proud to be a part of Starkey um we do have many programs available for our consumers and robonim we have the Starke hotline at 410-484-4110 or info at star-k.org we have our monthly webinars last Wednesday of every month at 12 noon we're starting a new program which we're pleased to announce tonight with Rabbi David Heber a bi-monthly webinar on jojos of uh eight sessions and we'll give you more information about that later there are many people we have to thank for helping us uh with tonight's webinar Rabbi TV Holland and we're going behind the scenes over here repzevstein put together many of the videos and the uh pictures spent many hours on it for tonight's webinar Renee gennad was very helpful and of course Dr Pollock our president without whom these such programs would not get off the ground if if um some problem with your sound on your computer you can dial in at 218-895-1203 again 218-895-1203 and put in the passcode uh 2020. the response to our webinar tonight was really incredible hundreds of people signed up welcome everyone we're going to have two parts to this webinar the first part we're going to discuss shilohs that are commonplace every day uh which you you may come across and in the second part we're going to get a little more in depth we have a video of a tour of a of a slaughterhouse and other questions which are not necessarily coming up every day at the end of the webinar we'll make available to you a uh a handout that discusses many of the issues that we're going to cover this evening so without uh further ado we will ask her of heinemann to open up the session good evening everyone and Good Friday tonight we will discuss some shilas about chickens by its very essence some of these things cannot be Absa because it depends on the way it's going to look how bad it is how good it is and some other issues at least hopefully after tonight you'll have some idea about what is a Shyla and what is not a Shyla and if it's not as Shyla you don't really have to look at it too much you only have to look at it and the thing about it if it's kosher not Kosher if it is a shire there in former times when you bought a chicken today when you buy a chicken from the um you're not sure that all four parts they process all the chickens um and it chop them into four parts and then they take two tops into the bottoms not necessarily said that that's the same chicken and that's very important because if you have a shot on one uh you have four parts the package together there's a you see that there's a problem with one part it does not necessarily mean that there's going to be a problem with the other part whereas if it's a question of trafus they may be traf or not if the old four passed along to the same chicken then all the all the parts are going to be trade if one part of the children of strafe the whole children is straight if you have a liver that's put in with your chicken or a stomach was put in from the chicken the likelihood that it's from the same chicken is remote of the chicken before the chicken is koshered they cash the chicken without any liver or stomach in it and they catching their stomach separately and then they put a liver on a package liver or something it would be very the chance that the difference from the same chicken are very very small so that's another thing to remember if there's there's a shower on the chicken the stomach is probably caution the chickens um are from the bird family and birds that means that birds can only be eaten if we know that this type of bird is a kosher bird so even though they may vary one a little from the other they're different types of geese we don't eat every type of groups we only need those on those that we have a tradition on that these are the ones that they used to eat so we eat them today so I remember I was once a farmer came in and brought in six geese and so the shark attack these five are shackles sixth one I will not check why this looks a little bit different than the other the other geese the the slant from the beak to its head is different and as far as I I know he said in Europe we didn't have these kind of geese we only had like the five well the farmers swore up and down that they're all five geese were from the same mother five eggs and six eggs the the mother laid there were six keys and they're all from the same mother but uh not listen it looks different and we will not and we will not shaft it but the red chick the different varieties of chickens also I've seen chickens that have feathers all the way down to the bottom of their feet now the Yellow Part on the bottom of the chicken there's the foot and then his toes I've seen the feathers all the way down to their toes well that's different chicken than we have we would need a chicken like that um what does make a difference does not make a difference we don't ask these questions all we know is that we didn't have any tradition on it and therefore we would not use it now the today when the housewife or the or the husband whoever does the shopping not getting involved with who does the shampoo comes home with a chicken it is usually already kosher slaughtered so and nowadays the kosher slaughtered but the insides of the chicken are not there anymore they've been removed um so if you bought the chicken from a reliable source which I'm sure that you have that that has already gone through an inspection has gone through uh the hands of a trained chocolate who has a certificate that he can that he knows how to share and he's made sure that the srita was proper and then the the fat bird in the Kosher Way and they open it up and they take the insides out there are various shiners on the insides of the chicken many people may not know this but a typical chicken has a spleen it has a gallbladder it has a heart it has a liver it has kidneys it has lungs it has if it's a male testicles this female has a womb it has a stomach as a crop plus other organs that may be inside this uh this chicken and they have been inspected to make sure that they are all wholesome as necessary for a kosher chicken the question about turkey all right so that's a good question about turkey the reason was the question about turkey is because the uh turkey supposedly was discovered in the um New World in the in the Americas and if it was so they didn't have it before so how do we eat it well that's a good question and the other question is why is it called a ton ago hodu hodu is um uh some place in India I guess so it seems they must have had somewhere before I don't know the complete history of this uhodu maybe they had something very similar in other places but for some reason it has been accepted that this is something which we do have a tradition on about how we have it I'm not sure and and people as far as I know people but some people don't but most people now there's a um so after the so these things have been checked already before we get it so we don't have to usually worry about that but sometimes you do find that you get a chicken which still has one of the lungs in it you'll find a chicken that has one of both of the kidneys in it you sometimes find a chicken that has the heart in it and you're wondering to sell what are you supposed to do with this and is it chicken kosher and it's not Kosher sometimes you find a piece of the food pipe or the windpipe that's been left in the chicken and you know what it is so we'll try to discuss these things in our discussion at some of these things and that's special time but the real the the most after this chicken has been kosher slaughtered been checked to make sure that it's not trade it is still not cultural there's blood in the chicken and blood is not when I eat blood so to take care of that our rabbis who told us that we sold the chicken and we were soak it and we salted and when then we wash off the salt and whatever blood is pulled out is the is the is the blood that we know how to eat now there are two veins in a chicken which uh which have blood in them which will not readily come out with a sorting process so these veins which are in the neck of the chicken either have to be removed or they must be cut into to to chop them up so that the blood can come out of the places where you've got them so ready we're going to get to that a little bit later in the presentation can we start with the uh with the broken okay so let's let's start let me show this one here let's start with broken bones so we have here a video stream okay so this over here is a broken bone right the hair is broken this is the polka it is the Hawker and it was broken around over here that's where it was broken let's go back to that picture I'll show we'll show this one more time okay so this over here with the Brokers from here to here and this is where it was broken right over here's the place was broken now it is like this this bone it was broken while the chicken was alive I want to bring it up every one second this is okay so here you see it's completely broken right over here completely broken if this happened while the chicken was alive this chicken would be considered trafe there are two there are two issues over here with this part of the bone there there are three bones in the leg one bone is yellow scales on it and that's where the toes are attached to that bone you don't we don't get those bones they used to they used to put them in the soup and and eat it but today it's against the law so you can't get it anymore so there's only two bones that we actually get one one bone starts over here which is the polka bone and then afterwards that's the thigh bone so they're attached they attached together like this now if this bone is broken the thigh bone is broken while that while the chicken's alive it's trafe if this bone is broken it is I mean difference of opinion and therefore since it's a difference opinion straight for kosher we make a trait now there's another issue over here in this in this bone that there you can ask the other question why is this why is it so bloody and red this this one okay so as I said the broken bone will only make it not Kosher if it happened during the chicken's lifetime but after it's uh demise after circuits um got hold of it and took care of it if it broke afterwards it doesn't matter now why would we assume that it broke before we assume it broke after so we take a look at it if it looks like regular color of a um then you assume that it happened because once the chicken dies it bleeds very little it only bleeds while it's alive so this would be an indication to us that happened during his lifetime and that's why Shyla is very um of opinion if you want to have another level 900 years ago what if it had a break like this alignment but it wasn't so red if it had a break and it was the regular color of a of a chicken we would say for sure it happened after it there's another way I can tell whether it was it is the Broken Bones start to knit back together as of the edges of the bones are not that sharp let's have a second a minute before the street but if it happened while it was being raised on the farm it their ends would so they would not be shot this way they're sharp and it's red it's a sign it's a symbol of a sign to us that it happened while it was alive and therefore this part of the chicken strafe and all the other four Parts Plus the neck and everything else that was in it the stomach the um that you've liver and everything else that's edible in there is all trife what there's a question here from Esther what happens if you don't notice the break until after it's cooked how would it look okay so it's not so common that you wouldn't notice it until after it's it's cooked because usually as I said you take a look at this you can see it's all bloody there's blood under the skin and so it would be but if it first looked so it afterwards it gets brownish in even especially on next to the Bone why can't you assume okay so uh the chocolate has about 12 and a half seconds um he does a tremendous job and he can tell right away if the chicken is dead just by feeling it he feels as cold it's not the regular warm the warm which is about 98 Degrees uh he feels that it's like and they throw it away but if it's if it has a broken bone or not that's not always holds the head of the chicken the rest of the chicken is being held by a gun he holds the neck when you deal with so many one after the other a whole day that it's um the child that doesn't shut the whole day I mean he only shifts for about an hour then he takes a rest for three quarters of an hour and then he checks it out again because it's impossible to concentrate the whole day um one one hour after the other thank you we have here a picture that shows why the um why the legs might break yes these chickens have maybe gone through the plucking machines they they there's enough reason for them to break already long before they get to this part of the of the um because and they um they storm around in those funnels it's the Panic of death which is on them even though they already are completely unconscious but the mere fact that it's a automatic reaction and they bang against the size of the funnel they can break the bones over there then they go through a plucking machine the plucking machine we have we have video events where they have rubber fingers that that's the rub on his chickens as a high speeds and rub the feathers out over here when they hang them they cut off the feet the feet are cut off over here and uh put this processing line and the the work is going they just throw them onto the line and they can use them when they bang the Slime they can easily break something at that point but it would not be red it would be the same chicken color as these chickens which you see are okay we do have some questions here at least one second seem to be having some problems with the sound yeah we're very sorry for that we're back now with you um let's go back to this question we're dealing with your mind um political the question is if they found some redness but it's not that red like this not so red like this okay um it depends where where it is and what it is whenever there's red over there which is not supposed to be there it's a red flag so we would check into it it says if it's red and there is no broken column but then it's only a question of blood you start a question option I'm being trained and if the bread part are pieces of blood so then it has to be your the piece of blood has to be removed if they're just colors and there's no actual piece of blood and it cannot be washed off the colors in themselves don't constitute blood there is no actual blood there and they don't have to worry about it is it possible for there to be a little not a lot bloody from a break after death it is possible that there could be a small amount of blood it's going to break after death yes it is possible okay um okay so let's take a look at the what the rub mentioned uh a second ago about a break lower down in the lake okay okay over here these are the legs of the chicken um before Wednesday was alive after the after the chicken had been defeated they are hanged from these legs couldn't be fairly process the uh the uh rubber fingers bang on these chickens over here to bang out these Travis they don't come out in this and it's not like a trek or chicken which is put into hot water or hot Steam and it smells just fall out these have to be pulled out and they're rubbed out and then after they finish the defevering process then the the cutoffs right over here they've got both of these feet are cut off these go in for annalize and this is the rest of the foot now here there's one bone that goes to the end which is the book of bone and then there's the thigh bone the Bosa here to the to the thyroid goes over here and this is connected to the pelvic bone which goes down over here this way with a ball joint there's a ball joint right over here that the chicken can move this way and in various different ways not just back and forth but to the sides and everything else like that and then in a human being they also have similar ball joints um we've got the same books now over here this the the uh three thousand up front and one told this is the toe in the back and three toes in the front now these toes each one of the the chicken can move them how to move them it moves them by there's a string a tendon let me show everybody okay let me Focus here okay so there's a string over here which is attached to the this this finger this toe and it goes through the string goes through all the way over here till the polka and in the polka there's a muscle and this muscle is attached to this string and goes all the way down and it's the same feels true for all the toes as a matter of fact the toes can bend and if they Bend so that each pen has a string that goes over here that has 16 muscles over here in in the poker Which pull 16 uh strings which called these feet and it also pulls it over here now the reason why I'm going to such elaborate discussion about strings is because if any one of those strings are broken on the bottom part of the book over here the whole bird is Trace not only is this side of the trace the other side of The Straits in the top and bottom everything it's all trades delivered first of all whenever one part of the animal was retrieved the whole thing straight it's not true with this blood and one part if there's only a problem of blood you can't get out of that blood out you just don't eat the palm of the butt and you can eat the rest of it but to a straightforward being straight okay now what we're going to show you now and that's better that's we're going to pull on the strings on two of these strings that go up this foot and come out here on the top and when I pull it you'll see that these toes will curl up and move okay yeah from this Pokemon all the way down the yellow bone and attaches itself until the to the toe to which it will move the brain of course tells the it tells the muscle to contract and to move okay um here's where the strings were and this is what it tells me okay for sure um okay now here we cut off the the bottom part of the code VR Pond the department is still remaining it's not cut off is the poker then the broker and here are all these dots these holes through which the um the strings went as I said the 16 of them sometimes a couple of them work goes through the same hole the holes over here there's holes over there and there's a couple of holes in the back over here and if any one of these strings is is ripped the whole the whole chicken strand so going back to the shadow of the when there's a break in the poker over here yes so get it back over here that's the important point so if there's a break in the pork over here we are concerned besides the fact that there's a break in the bone which I said there's a difference opinion where they're not making trick or not but if in the wrong part of the pool cut that there's a break we're afraid that one of these strings had been seven and if 37 is going to be trade so you know we can go and check them if someone wants to uh check them out and make sure that none of them have been served but we are not considered experts in that today and we don't rely on ourselves when it comes to checking a chicken if one of these strings have been severed most of the way but not all the way it's also not Kosher and it's not so easy to be able to determine that so whenever anything is seven over there we make a trip now recently there has been a whole um in inert Israel this has been a problem from for many years that some of the chickens uh now I'm not talking about one chicken kind of the whole flock of chicken let's say 15 000 at a clip all of them have some ripped strings over there and repentance um they come that way they came here maybe they've been born that way we don't know that but the thinking is that the reason why they are ripped is because today the faster you can get the chicken to the Pounders that you wanted uh the more money You're Gonna Save the more money you're going to make the more money to save on fee because you don't have to fit it so long and the more money you'll make because you can sell it to the same prices so I'll check that before you used to feed in eight weeks which is used to be the typical time to shoot a chicken before they send them to the slaughterhouse from the time it hatched for the egg so if you can see only in seven weeks or even six weeks so then you save yourself two and the feed which is a substantial amount of money especially when you're dealing in the hundreds of thousands of chickens but if they grow too fast they can't take their own weight and they and these tendons snap and the thinking is it has to do with that anyway recently in America this happened that some of the chicken raising houses they had this problem and it was a tremendous problem for all the kosher slaughterhouses because they got 20 000 channels that were put and none of them were kosher and they uh after they checked the national city of the number of culture they realized there must be a problem over here there is a way how to check it and whenever now this problem has started in the United States they check all the chickens about 120 or another 200 first to make sure that they're okay and then of course they will accept them so what is asking are the strings for every single chicken checked prior to the Salty these um these such it usually goes in fronts like if they made one whole flock two uh they men grow too fast but they don't go on houses so you have fifteen thousand twenty thousand in a house they they start out as all together they start out as X as hashtags and then they grow them together they grow too fast it's going to affect all of that well most of them and sometimes energy so they used to say it was a red therapy but um maybe it is maybe it's not but if it is so then it's gonna affect more of that so we don't know exactly 100 for sure what the reason is but whatever the reason is take check and if they'll find anything after 120 or 200 whatever they check then they assume that the whole thing is has no problems if they do find it they don't use them anymore which it just doesn't pay because out of uh 100 000 you'll get um 20 000 so it's what do you do with all invest in check out so so if when again when the consumer gets it and he finds a break over here at the bottom of the poker um so the concern is right behind him and saying that the that these strings might have been broken while was alive when the consumer gets it that question has already been decided if if there's a problem with the consumers I get in with these uh attendings it's already been cited by the rabbinic staff at the slaughterhouse so that's not a problem that we have to worry about now but we do have to worry about that you see the break the the foot was smashed the bone was smashed and then we were worried that maybe if it happened during this lifetime it may have said it one of those strings had made this interest so how can one tell or just you read it the way you're nuts we're not smart enough how to tell and therefore we have to listen to this strength last Bashar and the rabbit will have to stay straight he was very smart and even though he doesn't know we have a we sell an opportunity that's if it's broken down in that part they're both at that point he has to say demonstrate yes now that's only true by a chicken but by turkey we are Bucky and we can check them over there in the turkey so there there's hope that the variety take the shout out there have I somehow it got through and he was checked it and he'd be able to say look like the 16th strings and all that and then there's no problem if it's true towards the middle of the webinar we're going to have a review of the um of the various issues here so please uh stick with us let's move to another issue of a heinemann which um which we have over here Okay so over here this is the the poker bone and this is the side bone and it ends up over here here this is the end of the bone it is out of the meats this is the meat and it's stuck through the end of it this has come out of his ball joints the ball joint was somewhere in over here and it came out if it came out during this lifetime and these strings that are supposed to hold it into the ball joint have been um they're not healthy they're they're rotten or they're they're weak whenever it is they have been consumed through by bacterial other things one other maybe it is not kosher being consumed or not but if you see that at this point right over here that it is all red over here there's blood there and this is sticking out of the place where it's normally in so then you'll have to answer Rabbi what he will look for is that around here it is it is coming it is um that there's no blood there'll be a lot of blood that could happen during his lifetime dislocated powder joints um would there be a lot of blood on there and then that's a sign that hemoral is alive and then the whole chicken is not Kosher now there is over here on this thigh bone that goes down like this right this is the this one is the Pokemon and this is the thigh bone there is a vein or an artery that goes down underneath the underneath the thigh bone this is the bond the chicken over there is holding the bar with the chicken that's under the thigh bone there's a there is a albino an artery which sometimes attaches um fruitful sometimes breaks or breaks uh it brings a pond from the blood pressure um that is for whatever reason it breaks apart and then if you find blood over here you have to clean that out before you can eat it because it's blood it does make the whole chicken Shake it's just a candy the blood once you clean it out you may Summers have to cut a little bit of it out but um once you clean it out you can eat the chicken we're confused that if you find blood in this area what you find about in this area the two separate areas in there one addresses to the other so make sure to make sure that the problem extends from the ball joint and not from the underside of the thigh so the problem over here we can the problem over here then it's much more serious if it's red over here yes there's red over there and it has come out of the joint is Trace right the whole treatment whereas it's the blood on the other part the chicken's not trade but you can't eat the blood we have over here the Hebrew expression here written on top yes that's what it's called that's what this is called when this ball joint is out the ball joint that's moved from its place shopping building is movement and we have over here a in the video to share with you where we can see now behind him enforcing forcing out that that other joint if you look look um okay so over here see that there's the joint it came out it was this was the um drumstick and over here is the side bone because I'm behind me forced it out I just forced it out yeah over here because that came from that uh the vein probably no I probably there probably was a problem up there people put it back in again but it looks like it was about it let's show that again so over here is where it's going to come out just a little bit but there's only one second okay we have some questions here and we'll take some of the question um okay okay after after release after the assaulting is there ever a need for a consumer to do further cleaning out with blood yes it is possible even though most of the time won't be necessary sometimes it could be possible sometimes between the layers of meat especially in the thigh area on the underside of the thigh that let's talk about before that could be blood there and it's impossible or it's very uh they're very difficult to notice as long as the chicken is cold you can first notice it when the chickens cut up into quarters you buy a whole chicken it is you sure if you notice something you may have to clean away something so Esther's asking if the joint is out and it's bloody then it's an issue yes that she would have that now you can already understand why I say I can't say yes or no the Rob will have to decide whether the blood is coming from the place where the um where the joints came apart or whether to drink a different part of that bone which is one adjacent to the other and um so this is the things that you have to decide you can't wait until Josh is asking how can one tell the difference between blood and other red colored juices in a chicken like for instance we have some some picture over here um you can see over here this juice on the plate this needs blood okay so you can see already that that color is this this color it's like a it's not a deep red it's not a regular color blood it looks like it's being mixed with water calls this uh meat juice so just like orange juice orange juice looks red that's besides of what that's the juicer constantly mean itself so the blood looks okay and of course you wash it off it could be a little bit thought out but what did you get back from a kosher if you get it from a kosher Butcher of makosha um sauce they already made sure that there should not be any more blood and they've sorted it and you could if you don't have any um red flags around uh so I think that maybe a probably consumes okay um follow up on my previous question Jacob is asking if I determine that blood must be removed is washing it sufficient does it have to be totally removed do I do Melissa assaulting a second time you're definitely do not just a second time don't so for the second time whether you could just wash it off or you may have to use some more um strenuous types of removal um that will depend on what happens after you washed it if you washed it and that's where you clean you're gonna they consume it's okay it still is deep red then you'll have to cut it out now in general there's this radish in color the it's not considered black it's only if it is a deep red as especially as there is a uh omosis actual residue that's an actual residual applied blood or hot and blood than you really have to wash it up or cut it out just red color itself is not such a problem Linda's asking me dislocation of the bone joint doesn't happen after the sheikha when they're hanging should we always assume that it's crave no he doesn't know will not be read and it is part it's it's quite possible that it could happen it usually doesn't happen so much because because at the time when they hang it after the scoop to the whole chicken is cold and it usually only happens when you break it into quarters or um or you will really man handle the chicken it could happen but you don't have to assume it doesn't it's most the time does not Billy Chev is asking again if the issue renders the chicken trace and it ended up packaged anyhow so so someone else got someone got this chicken how can I trust even parts of the chicken that seem okay what if a different part that I'm not seeing render the trade I think what she's asking is how do I know that all four quarters in my package are Kosher if it's possible on someone else got the other part of my chicken okay it's nice yeah if someone had a uh passed away after an operation in the hospital how can I really go to the hospital and have an operation no maybe I'm going to end up like the other person so you know we we have the right the terrorist says we have right to trust these people who say it's kosher when we see uh I wouldn't either tell us that there's a problem over here we should ask we don't see anything we have right tissues sometimes in the leg of a chicken you see a dark vein audio with a lump of dark red liquid in it is that the vein the world was talking about my son would remove it um there are two veins there's one vein that goes down the poker was very often does have dark juice in it that's not the one I'm talking about the one I'm talking about is under the thigh bone that goes from the top of the hookah till the power till the pelvic bone because across the bottom of the chicken that is the one which sometimes the vein has exploded has broken from the high pressure that's on it and the blood is squirted out into the meat and that's the one where the blood has to be removed that and then um often has has any of the problems actually been spotted by any of the consumers watching this webinar so Louise says daily she seems very bad what's the what is the rebellions experience well the truth is that it has a lot to do with the processing in the plant some plants are more effective in that processing and some are less effective but all the kosher plants the the on the United States that's going to be kosher they will do a greater job and I would say that 99 of them oh maybe 98 of them uh I don't have any problems after they've left okay you see is asking all four queries in the package from the same chicken we discussed that that they're not necessarily from the same chicken you consume that they're not um Linda's asking what if after your chicken is cooked you see blood spots or red blotches in a piece of white white breast for example it's very unusual to find red spots averaging that's cooked usually after they're cooked the bus pass Tom Brown okay so let's go on to the wings let's talk about the wing questions we have a uh we have a video for that give me one second this is the one this is at the point right okay so please I don't think we should come now is there sound with the video the Silver Oak should there's no sound there's no sound okay you can see there you can see there the uh the broken one so this has gone through the putting Machine Pocket machine is banged on this one you see over here um which one is okay so this over here is the end of the wing this is this is the one part of the wing and this is the other part of it now a wing has three parts the part this part is nearest to the body it has a single bone in it the bone is about a half inch thick this part of the wing has two bones in it as one but there's maybe a quarter of an inch thick one is even less than a quarter interesting the two separate bones and they connect over over you know somebody you can see it okay this has a bones in it so this is the end this is like one piece one small piece there's no not there's not much meat that I need in this pie here this piece that the wishbone is uh this is the thicker bone and there's nothing about they're both connected this is the bone that is attached to the body of the chicken right Beyond this bone of the levels of the chicken inside the chicken and it's important to know that because when this poem has been detached from the from the body I mean it was under the skin but it's been detached that we award the chicken lady trays because when this bone with all the tissue the tissues that are connected to it whom cells away from the biological they may have pulled away the tissues of the lung which is right near it and made the end is there a long habits all in it belongs to the the chicken strike Civil War Australia not only that the ball is broken over here and then uh an image also around the body is broken we are concerned that maybe the broken part in the Jagged in it actually um pissed itself into the body um cavity and just along so we'll be able to check if it was broken on this point because it will go through like this enjoy it yeah okay so now it was broken over there there is no trait for someone who's calling whatsoever because you know this phone is only trade because maybe it's the functions this but we're not why the punch things go wrong and this it would make a trip so but even though it wouldn't make it trade but there's another issue over here that we have to be concerned with that this part of it of the wing was detached from the chicken during his lifetime and there was just hang over there in the skin and if that happens so this really was not considered biologically part of the bird anymore has been detached from a bird and something comes out from a living thing during his lifetime even a guy cannot eat it after even after this itching is that so what you do in such a case is that you will cut off there's everything all the neatness around this Cuts is not her cover I'm sure you've got anything that at the time it was broken that is all off throw this part out and this part is still kosher because um it was part of the bird it's not Trace now the drivers says that the minivism throughout this whole part you know cut this hat and cut this out a little bit yeah but you throw this off and out and in order that we shouldn't have any shines he said the customer so if there was a break over here where this line is Right throughout some Thunder's joints from this joint and on which will throw that out now um by an animal it's also similar but we're dealing with chickens now okay so if it's if it's cut over here broken over here it um then then we'd want to cut it here and and throughout this part that's right okay and if it's broken over here it was broken over there with short culture afraid that maybe the sharp point of it's just as well but again if you buy a package of wings if you buy them it's separate and say well that was all if it broke while I was alive if it broke after was dead and there's many reasons why it should break after his death because when it goes through this cutting machines especially they beat down on these things and if they didn't have enough calcium and they had meat bones it's going to break and then it doesn't matter once it's dead it cannot be complete anymore if it wasn't so at the time it was so is that a determination that someone could make the same determination you'll see that if it would be during his lifetime it would be um it would probably start to try to knit together again it will be bloody around the place where the bank had formed and um that's what that's the way to tell and if it looks clean so then you know what happened after its demise okay are there any questions about the wings otherwise we'll move on to the next issue which is the uh the kidneys okay now in order to understand this picture the um kidneys are on the bottom of the chicken the the bottom has two ends one end ends up in the vocal and the other end ends up in the spine the right next to the spine there's an Alcove in the bone in the pelvic bone the kidneys are in that Alcove the kidneys maybe are two inches long from top to bottom and over here the the this is the this is the back of the bottom over here and the kidneys go from here all the way down into the behind this face this picture foreign okay okay yes okay so over here we have um okay so this is the this is the uh bottom of the chicken and this is the okay this this is the kidney and this is it can be removed okay well I want to remove the kidneys reasons because this kidney lies in an Alcove this is all an alcohol all the way over here he goes up a little bit there's another Alcove over here and the kidney is there's two kidney it's one on each side of the chicken The Proposal kidneys that are felt in the blood so at this point I have to shoot that you don't need to talk about anymore but the the reason why I want to get rid of it is because you have to sort every part of this chicken that's all the meats and they have soy so the stomach of one eat it and whatever else we have to sort into the blood out now since this is really buried in the in the bone if you use salt this whole piece of chicken even though as far as the chicken goes we don't have to worry about it because it's only a very small part of the chicken but what is what do we deal with the kidney itself the other side of the kidneys now about three sides of the kidneys I've not been sorted and when kidneys are considered like a separate part from the rest of the chicken because they're in a bone this is a bone over here and it's considered separate and the if you want to eat them they would have to be sorted by themselves they're taking them out so the kidney is going to take them out they have a consistency that is somewhat similar to liver and many people have complained to me that they found the liver in the in their chicken and what they really found is that it's the kidneys we have a couple questions Linda's asking she sees these in the chicken all the time so that's the problem now it could be that in a David situation um it has been sorted to one side maybe it's good maybe some people might consider the kidneys as part of the of the of all the meats other agencies that allow it to be assaulted I don't know I don't know if the agencies that are officially allow it they themselves would like to take them out because the chickens stay fresh longer but um the as far as I know they all have someone taking them out well these people a lot of these people are not trained and Harvard to pull out the kidneys they have a vacuum clean cleaner and they go into the chicken with the vacuum in the background and just installed my search I call it College trains to do this survey some of them mess up on the job so maybe they only get nine out of it out of ten that's why you maybe you can find it they're supposed to be taken out that much I can say and if you did not find them taken out before you ate your chicken you should before you cook your chicken you should make sure to take them out before you start the urban furniture we have a a picture of how you would remove the the kidneys let's see if we can bring that up here okay over here you have to pay someone extra check on the boiler everything has more than twice a year okay so there was a video of someone removing the kidney they were behind me they want to get back to some of the other issues over here um if over the course of years one washed the chickens but it is possible that one did not remove pieces of blood or pieces of kidney does that affect the conscious of one's pots or pains you have Rochester that the kidneys are Kosher yeah so you don't have to worry about that yeah okay I would say that is Esther is asking if I've seen a broken bottom of the foot that the road Rose said would not be bloody do I now have to worry about my utensils and oven I've seen a broken bottom of the foot that would not be bloody I mean she saw when there was Bloody that's I'm not sure what you're saying you saw one that was bloody um I'm not sure of the question but okay maybe you should clarify for us meanwhile let's look at some other uh this is something that this is the the I know the gangreneur okay so this is the bottom part over here is green um this green is starting from kangaroo to seven this was you can see the blood over here streak of Bloods it has evidently recorded itself and this kangaroo in itself is a reason for us to be suspicious that if this didn't happen because this happened um after it was Florida it I mean it we saw it after a spot it must happen while I was still alive it doesn't get become a gangreneur in one minute so I don't know how he was there ready for maybe a week before so this actually developed gangly while I was alive and since the green over here nored away the place where these tendons are all collected together because we do have to as uh be worried that maybe some of these 10 one or more have been severed or been weakened but they're not usable anymore okay I wanted to take a break for a minute and thank everyone for joining us we're not finished yet we still have some more to discuss uh we're here at the Starkey offices in Baltimore discussing with Marsha heinemann chicken shylus and um we do have a a summary at this point of things that we discussed and the technicians that tell me if this uh is this those uh properly uh let's try to see what this we have learned do you hear that in the drumstick if the bottom half of the bone is broken and there is reason to believe the break occurred while the chicken was alive the chicken is not Kosher if the top half of the bone is broken and there is reason to believe the break occurred while the chicken was alive it is possibly not Kosher and should not be used a rub should always be consulted to make these determinations and one should speak to their roof if the chicken was accidentally used sigh if the bone is broken and there is reason to believe the break occurred while the chicken was alive the chicken is not kosher if the thigh bone was dislocated from the pelvic bone and there is reason to believe that dislocation occurred while the chicken was alive the chicken is not kosher if a kidney or part of a kidney is found in the chicken it should be removed before the chicken is cooked if it was not removed the chicken is still kosher blood blood must always be removed and may not be eaten the wing a break in the outer two sets of bones does not make the chicken trafe however if there is reason to believe that the break occurred while the chicken was alive the wing must be cut at the break and that piece must be discarded the inner bone is broken and there is reason to believe the break occurred while the chicken was alive a roof should be consulted if the inner bone was dislocated from the chicken's body and there is reason to believe the dislocation occurred while the chicken was alive the chicken is not kosher blood must always be removed and may not be eaten sometimes it is Impractical to remove the blood from the wing in which case one should remove those parts of the wing that are bloody in a package of pre-cut chicken each piece is judged independently if one piece is not Kosher the others still may be used when one brings a chicken to their Rove for a Shayla they should not cut the piece or remove the skin it should be brought as it was found as this may affect the outcome of the Shyla foreign of course if you have any further follow-up questions you're welcome to get in touch with the star k info at Star dasha.org we do hope to have this video up on our website this webinar up on our website um and uh in case you missed parts of it uh we hope to have it there for you um okay um we have now a video of um of a slaughterhouse and so we have a little warning it gets a little bit maybe Gory for some people if they're sensitive to that let's see if we can if we can bring that up for you I think most people have not been inside a a chicken slaughterhouse so they should find this interesting news foreign they go to into a machine which cuts the feathers so before they do that they usually go to cold water which solidifies the fat Under the Skin so that when it goes through these machines rub out the feathers that this good does not break so now it comes out of the cold water it's it's cold water 34 degrees and now it's going to go into the [ __ ] machines so they go in and the plugins rotate their rubber fingers and they rotate and they rub out the toilets so you can definitely see how how their handles are yeah so you can see how great breaks can happen around sound over there in that machine they're coming out of one machine and pretty naked that most of the plant was off it's only two colors are still on that have been out of this machine yeah but there was another this machine it's another machine and finally you can really see how they get they get uh pushed around right now they look quite good so over here they cut off the seats then let's see if they cut off and when they cut off the tree they're hanged by the seats so when they cut off the seat they dropped down onto about onto this belt they're coming up the belt and then they get put on to the network now these over here chickens these are not turkeys with chickens they the workers put them on the lines because sometimes they bang them on the line but they're bang online and they can break balls at that point also now they're going over this machine which actually cuts off the head so if you don't heads left or anything that sticks out of them is not supposed to it's about it's called they go through various machines is turning around the machine um the machine opens up the insides takes out at this point um it's a it's a machine that's more than that it takes out a full Piper movement pipe from the inside here and then they're going to open the machine's going to open on the top to go through the inspectors connection is healthy healthy chicken and then it goes as the last year we're checking it to make sure that there are no um um openings in the intestines and other shots that they have these are all letters have been taken out what was not because it needs the starts let's talk to a chip in their regret um it's still yellow on the inside and brown on the outside now they're coming and the temperature related Into the Water Works days for a half hour episodes and it's moving it's moving very slowly which is Maybe 70 feet long and then they come out at the end after half hour automatically this has been spread and saw we put them on these goals to stand up so that's a little bit more and then after they go past this spin assault they go into the machine that turns them over but sold to the transmower was sold so they will get sorted then they put corrupted his conveyor belt which goes up it's not gonna help it goes up and so that the territory entered the chicken is facing down so again it comes out of it pulled down and they washed away this over here is um after the solving process they've been washed off and it come out of the wash and they go processing again we could see very well how the length of the market broken there were said here this machine cuts it up into uh different parts now if they want to sell for once that whole they sell them home also this whole bottom factories all the packaging chickens in different ways so we can see how there's no connection between one right they just take out a whole pile right there's no connection between one part of the chicken and the other in the package threatening all right David has a question here um are they cut open before salting I know are they salted in the factory for a full hour they are sorted in the factory for a full hour they are not they are open they are whole in the in the understanding that the whole chicken is all attached to itself they're not split into hands because they are all they are solder on the inside and they're sorted on outside in a very meticulous way I think the answer to this question are they cut open before something they're not they're not cut open right at the top of the side knockers is saying it seems much more complicated my local kosher Exploder house but I know this exact same process your machines are just bigger and cash you're making more chickens it's amazing and how big a process it is um why do some people prefer split chickens cut like a butterfly is it because it gives more of the open areas and the chicken the toilets have more of a chance to get salt in all places the reason why it's done is in order to then make sure that the salt goes to all the places but it's more it's easier to deal with the open chicken without like a butterfly then one is closed because you have to go inside and you can make sure that every fold has sold on it well these new these machines that they have and the plants of today they're all set up that to make sure the salt gets to every part of the chicken inside and out under the wing between the the side and the body of the chicken now every other place they go through various machines to make sure it happens and they stay an assault first company out anymore so behind me saying that the way that the machines work now there is no real advantage to splitting is that what ends then those who split it split it because um it's it's used to be much more difficult to do this today those want to do because they have that custom to do it so talk about online okay we wanted to go on to some more questions you may not see in your in your in your chicken that you buy at home but uh these are issues which are as we discussed before a second level of of questions so here's a video of try to bring the necklace watches and ask her about anything okay so this is the the neck now the neck has two veins running through it which should be either removed or cut before the um the salt okay so we're digging down together here they are the two veins and they go all the way through the neck because they're now starting to looks like one but now begin to and they and pull them out so who cuts that so either they pull them out you see this coming out they're coming out all the way till the end so they go all the way until the place of the street it was originally that's over there that's where they came out or the if it's um if it's not done that way you could cut them cut the slices in the neck like this and it'll be they'll be cut and then if there's any blood in them they will automatically drain out um and this is also an upsettle way of tashuing a chicken now somebody had the Customs doing why am I something I've ever accustomed to it the other way but really you only have to cut it once they've cut it three times in most places to make sure that they've cut in these spots so this is not something that you would check uh in your home this is something you could check in your home when you get the chicken at home you can check and see if that name is still living or if it's colors to be cut yes it's something a person needs to check no no I could just assume that yes and for some reason it wasn't done it should be still kosher as long as the head was off at the time this alternate the giganteed was off so Alicia I was asking it seemed to move very quickly how can a machine check well enough if he has just a couple seconds okay on each chicken the line's a little bit misleading so like the one chicken plant that I was at recently so the line goes at a steady clip but automatically the chickens are divided into five groups because every fifth chicken comes forward in front of the shot heads further about it and four or go behind behind so one of those the next one so he only gets every fifth chicken so it looks like it's going five times as fast as it really is it is it is fast I mean you've got to get used to it once you get used to it it's not as bad as it goes okay um will you be discussing bruises on chickens and problem colors later um we discussed many of those issues already no okay as I said before if there are a bruising itself just a discoloration is not a it's not an issue the only times an issue is if there are pieces of blood that's coagulated in these groups then you should cut it off um before you cook it because it is it is a problem it's a piece of blood they will look dark brown maybe blackish you know not being the retina violence environment boost and it look blackish you could cut it off and the rest of the engineers well if many times the consumer finds pink you see pink a pink color especially by the legs okay the only place where you really find a pink color sometimes you may see in the inside of the chicken and where the ribs are close ribs in the top part of the other chicken and in those ribs um there's hidden with lungs the lungs are pinkish that's the only real thing you'll find if there's like a wider blood color which comes which you will see after salted we will discuss that so you don't have to worry about that okay um let's go back to our uh our PDF over here okay these are these are the uh the neck veins does okay over here this is the um this over here is the little the tools of the little is one low and this is the other one they look identical between these mode oh God has been removed if the chicken did not have a gallbladder the chicken is straight there's uh if you have a question you know you get it when you get the the liver you'd have to worry they never go back they took it out but if you shut the chicken yourself and you open it up and you didn't find a gallbladder so you got problems but it's typically done is in charge of the ashes will lick the liver right okay if you take the two loaves that's where the momentum sits if it tastes bitter it's good it's a sign that they had a call back it's called a gallbladder um because it tastes a bit of like gold and the um the closest Taste it's a bit it had one very often you can see a green Shadow over here down the side of the of the uh the readers come out from the program which is green um if it stays better it's good if it tastes good it's no good it's bitter so that's what means and strange so when the consumer gets this liver it's not it's not uh casual it's not casual as far as I know the only the chicken processing places percussion of river by themselves and you maybe make the decision or something like that but it's not part of writing the raw chicken deal they what they'll do is that they will seal it in a plastic envelope and sometimes they will put it in with the chicken you have to make sure they take it out before you cook you know roasted chicken because this is not concussion and and the process of cash or posturing um is that you wash it off you put on a um grades and you put a little bit salt on it so taste your sources for cautious but the amount of salt you have to put in all of the taste and you boil it on both sides and you wash it off after three boil and then you could really use it it has to be boiled that it should be um some change color it starts out as dark brown it becomes um pinkish then it becomes light brown and then becomes a Milky shade of brown and that's the sign that is finished the smoke it does not have smoke now over here this is the most likely again holy spring displays on a chicken is like a round Berry of the dark this looks like the heart with the heart of the chicken is not the same as a heart of a animal or how you know being it doesn't look like a heart-shaped it is like cylindrical shape it comes one end comes to some other points now you might find this and the chicken stuff on your chicken so if you have it just throw it away it is not cancer you know it's not that um we have some questions here how can he how can he uh look at if there's a possibility when it's straight ah looking in your liver that's a good question um the the answer to that is he licks it if it's if it tastes better so he did nothing wrong if it doesn't taste better he spits it out he'll swallow it says I have to do that since he to just tasting it is because it is we don't know because of Trades so it's a suffix now over here okay over here these pretty things over here are intestines and there are the chicken please yeah the people who check the chickens for the pastures look over these intestines make sure they don't have any chickenpox because that's very common and that's one of the most common things to provide on chicken I would think that maybe only uh one percent or maybe top two percent would have it but the they check in and these best checklist you grind your fingers over the outside of these and feel bumps you know in Australian box you know maybe it was so um okay okay so this is the bottom of the chickens the two legs two feet and this is the middle inside the chicken and this over here behind it is the stomach of the children it is a uh it's called a puppet which is some of the chicken goes in there those medium testines um okay do I speak okay so over here this is an intestine now over here on the outside of the intestine there's a protrusion there's something over here doesn't look so kosher so the way to test it is you you press it and see if that end piece will come out it will come out um let's watch it now see it came out whatever was in there came out now at this point the question is do we have a hole in the intestine we actually do have a whole new testament and therefore it will not be quotient so this is something that is over there he doesn't have any time to do it whatever he has a channel like that he puts it on the side and there's a special other Rabbi who comes and checks all the showers that is Alicia is not no pressure in order to find out whether it was actually kosher okay just end off uh we have a couple of pictures over here this is a behind me checking his knife and I'm taking a knife over here um and uh another picture along his finger along they're nice to make sure that it's on the blade to make sure there's no nips in the blade that's crucial that there should not be any index in debate over here it is you can see the uh and again you can see here this machine is throwing salt on them it's got the tumble machine it tumbles the chicken round and round first they have the soil go on the inside of the chicken and then the Tumblr tumbles the sauce on the outside okay everyone thank you very much we'll uh then uh uh I want to remind everyone that we do have a new webinar that we're going to be advertising with Rabbi there was Hebert um uh bi-monthly sessions for eight sessions um at noon Eastern and we'll uh we'll email you anybody signed up we'll get an email about that about that session we do have also our monthly webinars at uh 12 noon last Wednesday of every month and as Starkey Texas you can call us at 410-484-4110 or email us or go on our website star-k.org now we apologize at the beginning we seem to have some some uh some sound problems but we hope that they were that they were solved and that you were able to hear the bulk of the presentation we're going to do our best to put up on our website a presentation that is complete and whole so if you missed any part of it uh you you can catch it there um I want to wish everyone a good evening good night and the hope that we've done something tonight and one for sure we do have one uh article that we want to give out um let me let me do that over here okay so you should see okay you should see on your screen a PDF that should allow you to download that that the PDF which is more or less a a similar discussion to the issues that we had tonight about shyalism blood and broken bones and wings and and uh book of the atmos and side bones and you should see it all in there and we hope that you enjoy it it's not something that we have published you're the first people who are getting a hold of it so we hope that you do uh you do enjoy it he wants to know to whom do we bring chicken child is okay uh you can bring them to you can you can bring into this arcade Rabbi Holland says you can even ship them to us you should bring them to Europe and uh and and if and if he has the shower he can simply send sends you to uh to whoever he pleases to start k um and we hope that it's been informative and help you be able to be a more educated uh and educating kosher consumer thank you very much take care cool