10-26-2017 Kosher Appliances

hello and welcome to star K's monthly webinar held every month usually the last Wednesday of the month is this month it's pushed off a little bit until Thursday called at noon at the web address that you got in your email I'm rabbi T Goldberg our esteemed guest today mr. Jonah Allen Sasser the starcade consulting engineer welcome well thank you for taking time from your schedule to join us today we're going to discuss appliance issues appliance purchases if you want to join us by phone the number is two one eight eight nine five one two zero three again two one eight eight nine five one two zero three passcode 2020 so let me tell you mister ancestor the impetus for this webinar why I picked this topic right now it's a little personal issue by me because I had a freezer that recently never was had trouble and it wasn't dying but it was it needed some service I looked into it and it just wasn't worth it to fix it I didn't think you know you spend a few hundred dollars to get it fixed for just a little bit more I could get a brand a brand new one so you know it's the age of disposable appliances so I assumed that just like I need to replace things people out there will need to replace and we know we get calls all the time every day we have a dedicated a person who dedicated to answering these people even water more than one person right answering these questions about appliances about Chaves about young kids without Sabbath mode about every ovens refrigerators all the different appliances it's something that is on the lines of of kosher kosher householders but you've been working in engineering for working for many many years many decades you work for the Navy right that's right I think you told me 30 years right here 30 years working on aircraft and for the Navy for the past 1 years you're consulting with the starcade and you're the mechanical engineer behind the star Kay's certifications I do want to mention that you work also hand-in-hand of obviously with our behind men that you know very well but rather from Michelle is one of our esteemed rabbis here and he's gonna be coming in in about 15-20 minutes just to see if we have any questions ash I'll is that that he can deal with though we everybody works together to to get to the bottom line so without further ado mr. anasazi let's start with your first slave thank you I'm just going to go through a presentation here somewhat fast some cases and since you have the slides you can review it and we can't cover everything so just those items that you have questions Arnie only the chat in or email and so on in fact I'll give you my personal email it's OTT oh five four and you know JOA no comm auto 54 it's you know.com okay so again I'm not a rabbi I'm an engineer so there are items that need to be resolved by the row bottom so you have to pick her up and ask those questions I also have to make a note as mentioned here that it is possible it is possible to avoid all these issues but as rabbi Goldberg said not only we'll give it our disposable society lead to a shell and bias but if you choose these appliances which have personally no problem you're for sure going to get into a jean buys risk because they are lower grade not necess but they're not in vogue now but you can get refrigerators and cooking products which have pretty much no problems to them and also be aware that different models have different issues and you can't really eat within one company you can't necessarily extrapolate for one product or one model to another now the next slide this way you like math I'm not going to spend much time on it my main point is when you write on a computer it's not like there's ink flowing in the background some place you have semiconductors and they're either charge or not charge the charge semiconductors simplistically is a one and they uncharged is a zero and that's there are thousands and millions of them in every circuit board computer and that's how you write by either magnetizing or not magnetizing these various switches so there's actually no Sieber per se okay so let's go through leave these products what the issues are or what the items are that important first of all we we have cooktops that's where you put your pots and let's see what cooktop sounds Chaves a gas cooktop is is pretty old user normal bless electric cooktops we get a little more modern it's still possible to get the coil cooktops which are the concentric rings which are above the actually above the physical part of the cooktop those are more desirable and they will take the regular bless now when we get to the glass cooktop we run into a problem classical talks are nicer they look better and the heating element is embedded in what's called the ribbon element is embedded in the glass only problem is the companies say that you cannot put a block on them because they'll crack and I do have reports of actual cracks occurring so check in check with your route but the general procedure is to just cover the controls you're saying in order to create a black situation you can't put it black you can't physically put it so you're over the controls there are a lot of it says that form of honor right on color that was his schita so that creates instead of a blood that's right throw the same purpose as a but now when we deal with the cooktops yontiff of course you know to be cooked for you can you can adjust the flame for cooking purposes so again gas is preferred the gas is always odds no feedback there was the gas flame intensity doesn't care whether it's a pot they are not raising a low the flame generally is accepted for cooking purposes you can do that again you may want to check with your rug and the only problem now with in modern ovens even with the gas cooktops is the igniters if you just have a basic cooktop and it's not part of your range then if you unplug the plug to the cooktop then you could theoretically turn on the gas you'll get raw gas and light it from another source but gas is preferred you can't you also you go if you want to skip the ignition okay explain how you do that okay so know this you have to check with your rope again if you practice on a Wednesday your practice not yontiff and you turn the knob very quickly you'll bypass the igniter stop on the control and you just get raw gas and light it from a with a candle so you won't hear any click you should not be able to can avoid hearing it click that means that you you avoided the igniter so but a lot of the cooktops now are electric again there's no feedback that's just you do you're setting it doesn't know what well that's had a hard said true but basically it doesn't know what what you're cooking doesn't know that is a pot there or not so the coil top you don't see the glowing wire it's embedded the nichrome wires embedded in a metal sheath so some people put an indicator light on so when the light is on you can raise the intensity I mean they have an indicator light installed and to have an indicator but don't come at the others no it's not aftermarket installation right so can they email you to do that for them I don't do that you have to ask electrician up to that but the indicator light so when the light is on you raise the amplitude was all if you lower the temperature now on a glass tops one of the pluses of the glass top you can actually see the ribbon element but you again you have to practice as long as with you're within a certain range not too low and not too high you'll see you may hear a click you'll see the orange ribbon element go on in which case you could raise it a little bit and then it'll dims down it lowered but if you're too high or too low it'll be either too fast or too slow so you have to you have to practice a little bit so you think there's a way of running the realizes actually there's a way to raise that as well on yontiff if you see the power flowing to it like and how do you know the power is flowing to it because it's getting hot getting ready you'll see its cycles the ribbon element cycles are off so when it it just goes on if you actually quickly you can Rick and ready for it I see because it's really it's one it's one power setting it's just like the time on versus lengths of time off it's how they adjust the up to one second you good is asking not a lovely question does anything those indicator lights you're talking about on electric stovetop does that void the warranty possibly yes well that's a problem for people there is a possibility one of the trade-offs apparently I have not done myself though i watch it being done it's really not that to do and the there are some friends I'm not gonna mention brand names here or not there are some brands that that do have the software have a delay if you're the few rubbers of the opinion usually where you can raise the lower at any time because there's a delight built in like we have in the ovens the only downside of that is those that have the electronic controls if you should lose power that when the power comes back you won't have a cooktop on you have you have to get a non-jew to help you have to start back from the beginning because it shuts off and when it comes back it comes back off okay so that basically was cooktops for Shabbos auditive and now the ovens now before you get to they'll still have a question about the induction right the induction right okay so well that's about point let me skip to the induction induction is a great way of cooking except it can't work you back you if you go forward a couple of slides it it won't work for from Eden because because as soon as you take the pot off the inducting element will shut itself off for safety reasons so so you don't see it by induction essentially it's like a microwave agitates the molecules of water and food an induction cooking agitates the first the iron molecules in your iron pots you have to change your cookware to have iron and fair spots and so it adds it AIT's the the molecules and they move back and forth the pot gets hot and then the food gets hot but it's very fast but for safety reasons they can't have this induction on without an actual pot on top of the cooking surface so if you put a pot on yontiff you are well that's a problem oh so good as always off so yeah what's it causing it to go on well I think you actually have to they don't want to go out automatically and when you take it off it goes off immediately there's no way to use those I noted that we know somebody somebody thought they had an idea of putting a metal plate on there and then put a spot on top of a metal plate so they would always be on right we're going to be hitting the metal plate you're right I don't know Mitchell's right they should try that first non made to do that right so we can interview not recommending I do not recommend doing that that was a suggestion okay okay so the ovens the difference in the ovens that they have feedback versus the thermostat controls the temperature okay so again on Shabbos and I need to have a caveat when we say Sabbath mode the companies coined that name and in fact there's really nothing you do on Shabbos zones for Shabbos all the food has to be cooked and in the oven before Shabbos begins I mean you know it's a birth mother's a misnomer right it's somewhat of a misnomer then it's for Shabbos also we'll get to but no more and we should call the young tenth month well yeah but then they work out that way and then if if you do have food in there on Shabbos you should put a bless on the controls just like a cooktop you want to when you're talking about if you have an oven and you have on the biologists you know a child is a chop shop if this was new to me when I got you got it if you're a food let's say your child you put it in a Friday before here and you want it for lunch then you really should cover the control just like you cover the control for a food that's on the cooker but you're not adjusting anything on child Shabbos you can not adjust anything and almost there's a big question which you have to deal with your rough if you have this open on the food cooked from in the oven before Shabbos how can you open the door different opinions right behind a man says you open the door once take all the food out and then you close the door and then you eat the food different a bottom a different opinion check with your local okay so one thing that it does help to have this Sabbath mode on Shabbos is that you can leave it on time bake on Friday night and then will go off without buzzing get to that okay okay you're beating me here okay okay okay so that's on Shabbos yontiff the oven issue sometimes would be temperature adjustment a lot of people just leave it at let's say 300 of each Perin height but we feel that there are ways that you can adjust it if your rough says you can do it the starcade if you have a sabbath month well even if you don't on some of these but the stock came under the guidance of i haven't put a built-in delay which when you change the temperature nothing happens right away drama okay so that is one way of doing it also if you have some oven to have an indicator light but the indicator light is i have to be careful there must be a light to cycles when the power is on you get a light when it's off so what are they doing about without a Semite have an indicator light right and so that like before on the stovetop correct so dad I think the connect when it's on I turn it high same thing with the oven it has an indicator light or or it has an indicator light you can when an indicator light is on you would raise the temperature it was off you lower the temperature that depends on what how I'm raising a temperature from raising it with with the keypad okay so that's another issue you're talking about raising it with with that knob right right raising or with a or with a keypad that has a Sabbath mode to it in other words whenever we talk about changing the temperature either with a cooktop or the oven the assumption is there's no display change okay most cooktops don't have displays for the cooktop and some of the up ovens do have this place last time I have this place so you probably have to be in some type of a Sabbath mode to eliminate the display and then you can follow these procedures if you're ruff consider that's permissible built-in delay which we have with a Sabbath mode the display goes blank so you really don't know where you're going you would just put a basic oven thermometer in so you know what the oven temperature is just by looking for the glass the heating element is some of the those don't have a built-in delay but they do have a Sabbath most and the display goes blank but then you would adjust it based on following the heating element and for gas again if there's no display change for gas you could look through the mirror look through the glass door and down at the floor and you'll hear a click you'll hear a globe are go on which means the gas valve is going to open shortly and so the gas is coming out you could theoretically or practically raise the temperature and then when it clicks off when that glowing glow bar goes dim then there's no more gas coming out and you could lower the temperature so you you don't need to rely on any built-in delay you could actually see what you're doing as you adjust the temperature okay so relative to the cook taps just want to list some issues cos during the glass top so this is not rest necessarily have to do with with shahbazi active with the glass tops which are very common nowadays you have to be careful between meat and dairy and there's also the issue can you Akasha a glass top for pass out see how many gas cooktops you just put the flame on full-blast for X number of minutes till of the the powder has closed and you're done and for the coil cooktops you again you put it on max and you'll actually if the room is dark you'll see it glow and you've conjured but on the glass the smooth smooth top of glass top you run into an issue of maybe you can catch your immediately above the pot but the concern is that the areas between the actual ribbon elements also get very hot and how you cash of those all right so what we say is that you just said from eating dairy you just make sure that it's clean and dry under the pot and not at me and if something spills cleaned up rapidly as it shouldn't be any liquid or any residue that the pay sucks that's not going to be enough whether there's a problem using them I personally would suggest that you designate two burners meet and to Dario have some designation so most of the time unless you make a mistake you should be okay as far as that goes but you know something you need to discuss with your own let's take Sunday's questions miss da door okay can we one put dry food into an oven on Shabbos if we don't then fully close the door no I think they mean dry cooked food totally right right we don't fully open the door once no the reason you can't do that is because when you open the door you essentially the hot air goes out and the cold air goes in and you want the thermostat to be operating so you're actually when you open the door and have food in there it's a Gromov ro you're actually you're causing this oven to heat what you can't do cannot do on Chavez okay so they thought so they're trying to so you're saying that if they did what was this person suggesting then when they open the door they still would be causing cold air to go and we'll still be causing the oven to go on there'll be a problem on Chavez that's why rubber hammer says I see you want to take everything out then you don't really want it to go back on so who this says doesn't take all this without only a plot apply only if Ellen is still on correct the onus is off you turn it off before shop is that even be a problem that's correct use time bake which I'll get to shortly here if you use time bake so then you can open-close as much as you want because there's no power to the heating element so you sabbath mode on octave it's also okay to push off and then the heat turns off after the way well that's okay to raise and lower the temperature basically you shouldn't turn her off basically she raised and lowered I understand what he's asking not doing anything right you doing with a grumble right we don't recommend we we don't recommend that okay but you can use this raise and lower the temperature no I guess less what about from Trinity kosher if you want to catch them from a glass from train to kosher you're gonna have to check with your rabbi your rug okay let's let's go Michelle if you come in today we want to welcome around the Navajo Michelle minister so the question is using glass from nice cool glass cooktop from traif to kosher do you love it if you that if you I guess the question is you've moved into a home where they had on the on kosher there are different opinions among different posts Kim as to if it is possible or not our post agreable Hyneman is of the opinion that order to costume it up really it would require what is classified as a legal cow that would require getting the glass hot enough that have you put a piece of straw against it it'll get burnt we said the area outside outside the area outside does not get a little gets much more than yeah so let us bow when you're cooking so can they use the tray for glass stuff so they need to gather do other so practically speaking to really care it you'd have to get it that hot and now it's not going to get a bad hot on its own even if you turn on the burners the only way to pack them to physically do it would be to take something another eat source to do it it's not designed to be hot in those places and if it comes out uneven or something like that it's more likely to crack and break and we could not recommend that as a form of cos right therefore what we do say is if somebody has a situation let's say you move into an apartment or a moment you have a cooktop that has a glass move top with the electric burners inside you can turn the electric burners on high that when they get red hotter than those in that area inside of the circle is concert the area outside of the circle will not be costard obviously and somebody should be pedantic about keating keeping that area clean and not putting food down directly on it the rule always would be that something which is a no banging um oh it's already been 24 hours since it absorbed a non-kosher it's not gonna affect the kosher status of your clean so although the hot feeling shouldn't put something there but the evidence something did happen that it's not going to affect this kosher status of it clean so the fun of mine is if you move into if we move into a house you do not need a new oven yeah furthermore there is a rule that ain't leo sahib Loretta that even if there was let's say a milk like a spill in the morning if you wipe it up and you put on a flashing pot on that area even if it's hot although the hot feeling shouldn't do so but the Evan unless there's a liquid there it's not going to cause the the pot to become also to become prohibited by that action so the bottom line is I would not recommend somebody going out and spending you know whatever money it cost to buy a new oven just because they moved in but I would cost you the area inside of the burners and be pedantic about keeping the area outside of the burner is clean and dry and don't put food down there and intentionally okay very good what would you say don't we do you don't put the pots wider than the burn pot sweater burners or let's say you move your smoothie the pots lighting your plant across should not intentionally should really lift your bottom if you can't use a pot that's smaller than the burner there really is limiting you that's true that's it you might want any motion do we really say that to a house as a mr. honest answer there you can do consult with your place I guess if that's called with the eMeter okay I sure has certainly GE models have LED lights on the knobs how can we avoid the issue of turning on the flame on yalta was a match so he wants to use the trick that you mentioned before to do to to avoid the igniting the igniter but there's some LED like this that's going on when he turns to they're not where's the LED light displayed on the under knobby self or in the background well let me say this I don't know exactly the configuration that he's talking about but it's on the knob itself he says it's on the knob itself okay so is this just a cooktop or as a cooktop part of a range [Music] it's a cook time okay so the suggestion would be um this is the gas or electric let's because yes okay so unplug the cooktop right unplug the cooktop so once you take it off the stop the roll gas will come out and then you can light it with a fire source from someplace else just unplug the cooktop why does it matter if it's part of an oven enough because if you unplug your range you cook that will not have power or neither will be Robin oh you over won't work you may not need the other if you don't need the other rice good ok questions I think we took care of most of them we're gonna discuss ok so just running through here the issue with cooktops is normally after a power failure I'll come back and kept you have electronic controls so avoid them now control knob light it's interesting that the gentleman just texted in there are some that have a mount that changes light intensity when you turn it so avoid that and there's something that switch from a different circuit when you go from similar full so it pays to look at the product carefully before you actually buy it now with the oven the ovens the 12-hour cutoff that's something the companies put in some 20 years ago if you don't have it there's no way of putting of retrofitting your oven if you don't have it you're stuck that's one of the main important items of the Sabbath mode is to get you by the 12-hour cutoff now a number of ovens even if they don't have a Sabbath mode they do have the capability of turning off this 12-hour cutoff so you have to check your owner's manual opening of a door Shabbos or ought to check with your rub how to do that you should mention that sometimes you bother with the Sabbath moment but that savage mode is not certified by anyone and it's whatever the company thinks is a Sabbath mode and it doesn't meet the requirements of really what someone was telling me he bought an oven and refrigerator and all it did was it would like and go on but everything was buzzing say there are a number of non certified Sabbath modes I because Sabbath mode was patented by two companies but apparently they're not particular than other people use that name the there is a okay so after a power failure which could be a real power failure from your power supply outside the home or with a clock if you want to try and turn the oven on or off most ovens will not recover on they'll come back off what we try to do is most of those that we certified when it does come back it'll come back and Sabbath mode but off so at least you can open the door and there's no issue of taking out the food of a light going on now there is a current issue which is of concern which should be checked with your of the manufacturers a number of manufacturers have the heating elements go off when you open the door and on when you close the door for safety reasons they claim or because they don't want to be heat to wrap around and melt the plastic the StarCAVE ones even if they have this feature we put a delay in there so that in fact it won't go off or on right away as you close the door there are number of ovens that you can choose which don't have this feature which don't go on and off with the door so you have to be talking about winds on youngters using an onion tip right and what are you on Chavez if you opened the door one year one time you're gonna be turning it off and turning it on now if you do quickly like less than 20 seconds which is really a lot of time you shouldn't fall into that issue but in general a person should be aware if there's no door switch in other words if you don't have a door that when I opened the door the light goes on then you have no problem the heating elements but those that have door switches not all but some do so either on showers around young tip whatever so it's a ano Tiffany I have my oven is on I don't have a Sabbath mode so it might just leave my oven on right so you're saying when I open the door I know it's an egg you'll find a way not to go off right away and when I closed it go on right away correct that's the problem I wouldn't can I know that's another one no that's the problem before I buy it if you don't have a door switch you don't have a problem I can go through some brand names with anybody who was interested but I don't really want to go through that now but when you're shopping your vendor especially to use a fruit vendor should know all you have to do your due diligence diligence or research the of course with it with the ovens it shouldn't be any lights fans digital displays or icons they go that when you open a door door to jar or anything else that changes when you open and close the door use it normally some ovens have an oil coating so when you buy a new oven just wash it with warm water long soapy water all those who get the question of venting when you have a double oven as far as we know the ovens do not vent once for the other but they do vent out through a common they went out through the back of the oven and then a wall a double wall oven they both the top and the bottom hole went through the back vent and then they'll merge going at the bottom some of the ranges which now have double ovens they will then separately to a back channel but it may come up under your under a burner under the left rear burner so you have to be a little bit careful with those preferably not to use both your ovens with 1,000,001 Flay she got covered at the same time that's if they vent into the same come home they all will be invented to the same the exit path the final exhibition uses both one milk it's one place you can uncover check with your rod but that's okay let me just go back here okay a lot of Viking ovens have started certification I have the Viking and gives a model number here which does those outside with no but it's not listed on the starcade website I see each Viking on the stockades website have different rules with regard to shall was young if I can I tell was it deal with my oven well that's why I miss dark your website well the first thing is he needs to call up to the Sakai office and speak to mrs. Goldman why in fact we don't list it could means not listed because they their own put Sabbath mode there and it's not a certified product it could be they didn't update it properly very often there are models which are perfectly fine but the companies don't tell us that they change the name so they should contact us and we'll research I think what the problems theme thing you're gonna get through I think yeah I'm gonna get to in a minute mrs. riff go ahead Goldman please mention about buying an oven to be installed under the counter the controls might be sensitive and would not be a good choice if okay and then you reach these control that's a very good point okay so the safety issue right one of the items that have come up which is sort of a practical item some kitchen designers put their built-in ovens under the counter the problem is if you have children or grandchildren they would love to fool the buttons and they will drop out from the Sabbath oh because even though Sabbath mode inactivates all the control buttons they're still by law has to be a one off button that you can immediately turn off the oven so if you can any way avoid having controls at the child's eye or hand level you should try to do that there's also a new issue has come up the some of the main factors don't want to go to the relative of the high temperature of self-clean so they go to steam-clean as far as I believe Rob says steam-clean does not do the same Lubin cull that you will be used to with the self-clean so it's really not a recommended I am if you are interested in it does not suffice the contract correct so can they use the they can use it to clean to clean and it is not going to announcer and then they can put it on the far as they have it at a high enough temperature that would be a little car which is like around 500 then that would suffice you can clean it again being a physical dirt right then run it on a cycle at 5:52 setting and then will be good for basis too but this the steam clean itself is not it's not to sound reassuring it's not a cosmic okay maybe an effective cleaning but it's not at all right now steam steam baked is another feature and I think there's an issue with the the steam of the mill thick fleshy we have this this liquid or a vapor in there is a ax and I suspect the best recommendation is to avoid it unless you want to be very careful around your right now time bank we talked a lot about time bank very helpful but you have to realize that if you have a basic time bank and there's no Sabbath mode what's going to happen is the when the time is up and the first time you open the door you're likely to cancel a beep or cancel an icon so you have to try your time bake if you want to use it on a Friday night so the oven is off just make sure that it doesn't thing forever because it will drive you crazy so we're saying if you open the door that cancels automatically some of you have to shut it off some automatically go off the first time you now we those that we have a Sabbath phone with time bank we designed it so that it may ring once and then it will go off on its own so you have an oven now which you can open and close at any time you want there's no more heating system working and it's not gonna drive you crazy with with right so so so we've pointed out this is we talked about this that even if someone will not use the oven on yontiff with the Sabbath mode to change the temperature because they don't want to do that but they still it's still important to have a Sabbath mode for this issue you're talking about so they can have time bake Friday night and if they have it they don't have the 12 hour shut off right so I shut off and also you have the problem in a dramatic opening door closing the door it turns it on and off immediately sometimes that all the icons are eliminated right so there is a reason to have even if you're not going to change the temperature okay so someone asks about warming drawers so this is a partly a rabbinical discussion but our ruff says that the warming drawer which has temperatures above the icy lattice and has a thermal thermostatically controlled heating element really should be treated like a standard oven and so whatever you do for standard oven should apply to the warming drawer mrs. Goldman is pointing out that Sabbath mode does not guarantee use of time bacon Sabbath consumers you check each model Z was a bell okay and they're not necessarily guaranteed feature right Sabbath mode we go in you realize that either I brought each I thought that that'll be the point of the Sabbath no the if an oven has time baked in the non Sabbath mode we incorporated into the Sabbath ha but there's some ovens that don't have time make period so is that right saying she's not saying that she's saying that they could have time bit but not be be mode you know features is that tiny that's what you I'm not aware of that when if there's time baked in the normal mode we ask them and they they put it into the Sabbath or it could be one of two models I don't have that so you just have to be sure it should read them not read the manual before you buy you but look at the should also look at the starcade webpage where we try to give as much detail for the front consumer as possible including you know what where did I have time baked whether you can or can't change the temperature and so on check the stock a web page for the particular model you're interested in so that's the story on the warm draw the induction we're talking about that we already saw even the Gontier frigerators a little bit but before you go there let's talk about somebody going in they need a new oven okay what it's confusing because of all these issues that you mentioned okay right so so I just want an oven that that I don't know that is not doesn't cost a fortune and that is is kosher friendly okay what am I looking at okay the good news is the less expensive off when you buy the less problems you're going to have okay so we add a sock a if you go through our web page you'll see we have a number of recommendations for ovens and cooktops would call pre-purchase advice and they roughly follow what we talked about here quickly go through if you have electric it should be quelled burner if you have a glass you may have a problem with conjuring keeping kosher meat and dairy or cosmic Pesa electric cooktop you may run into the issue of adjusting the temperature and yontiff how you gonna do that whether you have a ribbon element or have an indicator light now gas is easier even gas you have to face the issue of electronic ignition and as you get up in price you run into issues like light bars that get brighter and so on but if you stay simple there are numerous ovens that are out there which will probably make your wife happy it has self-clean it should not have many bells and whistles and there are there are some cheaper models that have a Sabbath mode as well I bought an oven it was I think a hot point or maybe a GE it had a Sabbath mode from Star Cain it was I think five million dollars there's a base model they work fine almost every home in Lakewood has at least two of them so so but you have to look at it but you can get something that's weasel again gas is preferred that all houses have gas so if you deal with electric coil top is preferred and try to avoid a switch that when you open and close the door the light goes on roughly you know that that's which you won't run into the issue of the heating elements going on if it doesn't have a light I mean it doesn't if the light doesn't go on and off you should be okay you should be okay with regards to they won't go otherwise or a way of overriding the 12-hour cutoff okay are there warming drawers and a completely problem-free what does it be problem free I guess that you can can use on Chavez I would say and I'm speaking out of turn Michelle since the warming drawers go above 120 and they have a thermostat according to our posting here they have the same no other abundance' differently but that's a stark a position so you cannot use it I'm Shabbos it would have the same room restrictions as as a regular oven mean to say if you put something in there from before Shabbos that was already my bushel that you don't have pounds of fish yeah you take it one company once it wants to take things out then that's also like your regular would be the same thing okay let's in a few remaining minutes we have let's talk a little bit about the refrigerator and okay okay so again there's not a lot less than physics but the bottom line is that's roughly the basics of a refrigerator the I just want to point out something we'll get to shortly the evaporator which is where the the two red arrows are on top is our is inside your refrigerator everything else is outside on the back of the bottom of your refrigerator and the evaporator is what gets iced up and needs to be defrosted either automatically the frost-free refrigerators or manually if you have an old one you shut it off for a couple of hours and let the ice melt and that's the way mothers or grandmothers used to do it okay so the basic issues of refrigerator obviously you want to be able to open and close your refrigerator you have to avoid the fans the lights the icons the alarms the senses change it is there's a whole grouping of other items the there are automatic senses of you're approaching there are monitor screens that light up light cigar amantha the more expensive you buy the more bells and whistles you'll have and the more you'll have to contend with them as far as shoppers yontiff goes now if you buy stock a Sabbath mode if you buy your stock okay all these most certified refrigerator we take care of all these but those are more there was a higher-end some are higher in some are else can I get a $500 that case if you can't get over elephant you can't get a regular you'll get a regular fortified Manila and that's not a 22 22 cubic cubic foot refrigerator you probably took my seminar you're probably talking about $700 not stock a certified versus a thousand to twelve thirteen hundred sort of okay so there's an issue of opening the door this has been an issue since refrigerators were created check with your of the issue of the compressor there are numerous uh loving opinions about that what we do with those have you certified and put a delay in so when you open the door and I says I need to cool down it delays the refrigerator magnetic switches supposedly look nicer they're a little harder to find but instead of taping down a mechanical switch you have to run a magnet around the door frame or outside the door frame on the hinges that are on the roof of the refrigeration order to that the frigerator knows you you open fool fool it yeah you know you don't put down on the plunger you there's no plug to imagine somewhere right now the stock a ones you don't have to do that we take care of our life this is just something has come up people call I don't know how to turn the light off well the reason is close so that would be something you want to try before you buy it right would you agree that before you buy a frigerator you should you go to the store and try it out if you have a Sabbath mode you should and frigerators as opposed to ovens very often you can have them running in a store now you have to be a little bit careful some of them have what's called a demo mode where it sort of gives you lights and displays but doesn't really run but certainly you can see a lot like for example one of the items that come up they now have a temperature reading through the door in other words you see the temperature that the refrigerator okay now the problem is when you open the door if you leave it long enough you're going to that display is going to change weight through the door the problem is that I think what it is is that it's the app it changes its the actual temperature in the refrigerator when the door is open but it's the set temperature when it's closed so when you open and close the door you're gonna be changing directly causing that to change that digital display but then you can see if you look at the product you'll be able to see that ice and water dispensers as opposed to a water fight well as opposed to your faucet where the pressure for the water comes from from gravity from the ether from the pumping station at they in the city or from the Catskill Mountains if you live in New York the icy water dispensers use a motor to dispense the ice of water so you really cannot use those on Chavez and Ianto now the long pole in the tent is the defrost cycle the problem the defrost cycle is it runs a compressor run time after the compressor has run a certain number of hours the frigerator will turn off its cooling phase and will initiate a glowing wire which melts the ice that surrounds the evaporator so it becomes an issue of ground pivara the are you a player in making this refrigerator turn a heating element on so that's what we do at the starcade those that we certify we have it switch it's a clock kind in other words that every eight hours mean eight hours place under wall clock the consumer has no influence when that trips check with your of there are numerous opinions as far as that goes lately I've run into also that they changed their algorithms because this is one of the highest energy uses and they want to be what's the call they want to be energy energy efficient but so what they do is they also count door openings especially GE refrigerators who have frost guard they will count door openings and the length of door openings and I would think that you're even a mortal play around in the defrost cycle then in any case so let me ask Sarah Michelle so is there a problem for us that we have these counting's the time you open the door that's why the ones that disable that so it isn't probably consider their problem right now I will say this that I just was dealing with a consumer and he taped down his light switch and he said the frigerator was not working I finally figure out what was happening because that refrigerator was counting door openings and length of door openings when he taped down the door switch it thought the refrigerator thought it throw was always closed so I don't have to defrost much but in fact it was being used normally so the ice was building up not defrosting and toward the end of Shabbos certainly end of a two or three negative the refrigerator was no longer the frosting and alone cooling properly mm-hmm well we have a couple of questions here before you or continuous someone wants to ask us to discuss urns but that's not able to talk about now do you recommend these timers that's a supposedly sheffster figure in a too few times an hour okay I can't give you a straight answer on that there may be some concern abut ruling the refrigerator so you should check with your manufacturer talking about these timers that basically it's a it's a novice clock right because you open the idea as it goes off in and on and then you open your fridge red walls off it's called a short short cycle timer so it'd be like say yeah I'm for ten minutes or four five or whatever some setting and there's an adjustment for different times of the year the first thing is you have to determine whether there's an issue relative to your warranty and to the operation of your refrigerator [Music] the other concern would be illogically it's comfortable complicated that I know the answer to the question is so when you open it now the frigerator is not working so if I let heat in frigid and operating so okay as if the panel that he did but now when it goes on there's more heat in there if I would not have opened the door it's the question I think the questions brought down the halacha can I put a candle by a window with and where I know the wind is going to come in ten minutes so I didn't know the answer to that we can say the other problem I'm gonna show the fact now it's off this really gets back so you lean for that then probably this is okay as well yeah so okay okay the question about using nice what about the ice in the bins is emptying it cause it to make more ice okay so the snark a certified refrigerators especially the new ones we disable the ice maker when you go to Shabbos mode usually the ice makers have a bailing arm is sort of a rectangular wire that hangs down once the wire gets let's say below 70 degrees I just made that up sort of gets gets low it says it's empty and it starts making ice you really should not make the ice shabbos maybe not even on yontiff so just if it doesn't automatically off lift that bailing arm up to a detent to a stop and then take the ice out before actually I think you can do it even on Shabbos because you if you if it's not starting to make ice now you're just keeping it in the off position how do you know in the middle it might be okay so do each one of those has a little time turn it off before show okay what what does it GE refrigerator that says Sabbath mode capable mean okay GE has its own certified Sabbath mode and we just don't know exactly what's going on there this is self certified by General Electric okay so we couldn't say right no information we don't have we don't have any reliable information okay good okay next one okay whoosh look this is a very important question because we get asked this question maybe once a week what happens is people is missing them buy a new freezer and the gasket works well when they open the door and then close it hear this sound this sucking air sound and they think that some motor is working really make it as short as possible what happens is when you open the door the cold air falls out warm air goes in you close the door the warm air gets cooled and it's density increases but it's it's volume becomes less as a density so there's a vacuum inside the refrigerator so now it wants to suck in air as much as possible to equalize that imbalance and yeah that's what you hear you hear the sucking that will happen even if you unplug your refrigerator it will happen and it's the same reason that when you open your door and close it you have a hard time opening right away because there's a vacuum inside and a higher pressure outside so it's not an issue logically it's just laws of physics in action so let's just go back a second to buying the fridge right so when you're buying are you looking for a new fridge so either so you're going to either buy a Sabbath mode refrigerator Starrcade right or you it's not and it's possible to buy one it's not that that meets all their requirements right definitely possible it depends on what your requirements are I mean the Shabbos requirements yep you can tell what your requirements are if Mohammed says it's an issue with Graham Jabara with with the fourth cycle so other than other non-refrigerated do not have this problem there are and those are the manual defrost refrigerators and they're made by a company okay interesting to most people well I was beginning to show my issue they you can't buy them I know somebody who bought two of them just for for Shabbos to avoid this issue they work well you have to defrost it like I personally do not buy frost-free freezers my role manual defrost you can still get them okay so but I want frustrated I don't have to worry about the frosting okay so all of all the ones without the Sabbath mother have this issue aren't there any would that don't count the cycles and all the issues we talked a lot said don't count two cycles but all of them have the defrost cycle run a compressor run time this is what they came up with there's a saved energy because if you run a clock time then you'll be defrosting in the middle of the night where nobody uses the refrigerator for the last eight hours so don't we should point out there are there are so this is with Rob Heineman holes there are close to demo that this issue is not it's not a problem because it's too removed from what you were going to do it whatever this first solute moves for a Barnabas it's not a process not a problem right I see okay but according to the Hyneman so you either get to starcade certified or I think you said you grew up with a sheen right right don't say open to the with your elbow yes Boris Orbiter other post-game who have a differing opinion and rights everybody okay then there are there are while going overtime yeah by a lot but it's just there are some questions about the ice I don't know if we can get to and remember that we if you can't get your question answered right here you can email us at info at Starrcade org or previously mr. Sasa gave out his email address you can call us at 4 1 0 4 + 4 4 1 1 0 there are a couple of slides I just want to show people what you were going to talk about yourself alarm systems motion sensors cameras you know you're going into a hotel or hospital and there are these issues you walk by somebody's house miscellaneous issues you want to possibly get to grinders motels pap machines all these things that are up and coming what's that so we call me Ben electric bed I said you used a long e to unplug it before shopping ok these are liquid water meters which water meters have become an issue because they're all switched to digital displays so you have to be proactive in getting the correct ones right this is your mantra keep it simple cheap if you can release the danger what's the danger common actually I can't skip that because danger is more it almost accomplished you tsurara the problem is houses are being built tighter and if you have a gas gas sound like you have a gas range oven and you leave it on like for a three-day yontiff and it's warm so your windows are closed and your air conditioning is running you're going to be depleting your oxygen supply and consequently you're going to be very likely causing carbon dioxide to be generated by your one or two flames are on and you're over this on over the past a few people came up to me and said they had a carbon monoxide issue so leave that window open close to where your oven is if you have a gas if you have a long it'll go off and what will happen is the fire - bomb will come if you call them and they'll get everybody out of the house and they'll want to you know air out the house it will be a big turmoil this is even if it's working properly even if it's where they'll have because you need oxygen you're not providing enough oxygen if you're gone for you know 72 hours I want to thank everybody for for joining us and here we have a little there we go a little pole for you to take just to see how no gay how applicable is these issues are I replacing appliance recently our planet replacing one soon I think that pretty much would cover everybody I mean everybody when I came to came into the I meant my colleagues said yeah I just bought a new whatever that's a constant thing unfortunately harder and harder the older appliances used the last long time right I think the current what I some sort of course the current expectation is somewhere between 10 to 13 years as opposed to 20 my freezer died after four so what does that mean that means okay let's see when we definitely seems that most people are saying that they that they have a place that they're going to replace something soon so they need to you need to know these these guidelines especially with refrigerator which is you know a serious a serious issue you know you need to it's not just like you can go out and buy one for tomorrow right unless you're going to get a stock a Sabbath mode which is a good idea but if you're not going to then you you have to have lots of time to research it right yes you need to check with your oath with these policies what is right okay so we definitely have over here it looks like most a one lean majority of people are gonna replace well we hope that you don't have to then you do it by choice not by by requirement I want to mention that the next webinar will be the last Wednesday of next month God willing at 12 noon I want to thank everybody for joining us I want to thank mr. Sasa for taking on your time and you know something that's on the daily basis you're dealing with these because of these issues and that the company isn't back-and-forth with with the famous brands GE with which companies do we certify we from Frigidaire Electrolux KitchenAid Wolfe Samsung LG about 13 or 15 companies okay somebody should be able to find something that they will satisfy you need Thank You Michelle for joining us thank you my Chapman and miss roses things for your help and again if you didn't have your question answered feel free to contact us and we'll try to get back to you as soon as possible thanks very much have a good day take care