04-29-2015 Baltimore Security Update and Halachos of Security

hello and welcome to Star K's monthly webinar uh which is held the last Wednesday of every month at 12 noon today we're very sorry for the delay uh we have some technical difficulties I'm not sure if it had anything to do with the riots or not but uh something got into our system and uh Hashem we are here now I'm Rebecca Goldberg your host and today we're very pleased to have with us Mr enough Manchester welcome thank you very much Mr schefter is the president of the nwcp of Northwest citizens Patrol here in Baltimore um and after we speak with Mr schefter for a little bit we're going to be joined by Rabbi Frankel who's our director of the hello Institute at the Starke if you'd like to see The Archives of this of these classes and we've had every month for the past couple years you can go to kosherclasses.org or you go to our Vimeo Channel you can send us an email at info star-k.org and sign up for information when we have the classes and um and what the topic is going to be um thanks for bearing with us with the technical difficulties um so Mr Schechter if you could give us some background of the nwcp just for a minute what what does your organization do thank you very much Rabbi Goldberg the organization has 400 volunteer active members for the last 33 years we've been around for a third of a century our members Patrol on a seven week cycle every seven weeks they Patrol eight cars go out a night and our Patrol is very unique because our rules are you stay in the car when you control meaning if you see anything going on you radio it in every individual gets a radio and a map to stay in a specific area and you and you radio in any anything that you see that needs to be taken care of we are unique because we have a police officer that rides with us to address any issues that come up our Patrol has addressed anything from stolen bicycles kidnappings we've even stopped the bank robbery and well I don't remember that okay it was in the early days oh absolutely and what is very useful did you get the reward for that um I don't think there was a reward what was unique what is unique is that the police department has stationed the police officers with our with us who rise with us every single night and he's there we ride from 7 30 to 10 30 at night so he addresses any issues that come up it's really a uh you know this organization is really known nationally as one of the top or the top you know citizens Patrol in the country you know and I see when I go to there go they see all the awards and you know so it's really very very well uh very well known so what's the lwcp doing differently now with the situation here in Baltimore is there anything is patrolling as usual from what time is it seven seven thirty to ten thirteen right so is there anything different well um the first night we did not have a police officer because all officers were stationed to go to where the um where the rides were so they took away the police officers Officer there were no police officers no one knew this but there actually no police officers in our whole area and last night it's now we can know about it now you can know um but last night we were the only area that had a police officer that's how much they trust us and that's how much they know that we're effective we had groups that went out last night they did not have our groups usually go out with their lights on at night we have um lights that go on the top of the car because we're not we're not undercover um people we want people to know what we're doing and that we're out there last night we did not go out with any lights because if there are any individuals who decided they wanted to throw things at our cars we would not let that happen so the mayor okay so you didn't want to have the lights because that attracts attention it tracks attention yet we were out there supervising and making sure that everything was quiet I see okay so um so we had the curfew or the famous or inFAMOUS curfew um I don't think I've ever been under a curfew before except maybe what during the snow maybe or something there was one sure we had a cookie for this now for the snow right we could not go out and drive right right but that wasn't scary driving curfew not in the street curfew right that wasn't a scary uh situation um so I mean basically they're saying that since 1968 has not been a curfew here a security curfew so yeah um so let's talk about how that affected the uh the Jewish Community the schools the schools and so on the mayor called the curfew Monday evening Tuesday morning I walked into Shoal early in the morning and I met the president of the Agoda Park Heights and he said he was talking to her Highland late last night and they were discussing with all of the Ninja that are going on in the Agora we have the most Museum in town they go till 11 o'clock at night and we have people learning in India good until 12 o'clock at night excuse me for one second Rabbi Heber when he was on here once he pointed out that they are good has the most um in the country okay because there are many shibla who have more minions as many factories they call them but they are they adopt in the Nissan so anyway okay good okay parenthetic but but you're right but I guess last night that wasn't true because we cut out something else so he said to him well let nothing Shack decide whether we should have the late Manana so I discussed it with the president and it was clear if the city decided to have a curfew and that it did not did not want anyone on the street we should certainly abide by those rules and not have any money on them after 10 o'clock so it was decided that at 9 30 that would be the last minion no 10 o'clock no 10 30 no 11 o'clock the agooda would be closed at 10 o'clock which is what happened and there were other shows that followed suit it is important to know that our area has over 4 000 families and 30 yeshules some of them in the city some of them the county those that are in the county are much further removed and really are under different rules than the city because there is no no demonstrating going on in the county no riots going on in the county all those in the city even though our community itself is not near the rise of demonstration but we're closer so we follow the rules I'm closed with both the city and the county but the information that we're getting as far as the uh as far as the demonstrating we're following the city rules and um so the aguda and other schools are closer by so those are the shoals did close earlier and they had to re-uh re-examine their schedule so tonight that's not well it's still in effect tonight right the whole week through showers through Sunday oh okay so the next thing that came up was the schools in the the public schools were closed our Jewish schools were all open they opened on time the question was because there was some demonstrating That was supposed to occur what would be should the schools stay closed should stay open or should they leave earlier and the the city police suggested very strongly that they should close because those demonstrations were supposed to organize at about 3 30 when the schools would be letting out and if the demonstrations were developed as thought and kids would be coming out of school that would not be a good thing okay so they closed the schools early here's the phone number that we do have that's up on your screen uh 218-895 -1203 again 218 -895-1203 passcode 2020 pound and so you can hear it um hear it by phone um if you have an available phone you can try that um okay so if there's anything happening and yesterday was pretty quiet right yes anything that happened today or is anything that we should know about or well right now everything seems to be a holding pattern things are quieter and we're hoping for them to stay quieter the next issue will be Shabbos because we do have a curfew and we know there are Sheldon's office there are Bar Mitzvahs there are events coming up with Chavez and what will we do as far as the curfew so we're very fortunate since we have a great relationship with our major our major is in charge of our district and he has told us that he will be quite lenient with us he knows that there really is no trouble in our area and the only thing he's concerned about is if if some individuals decide to contact our area that we should we have to be careful so he'll be lenient with us um we we can stay out later but we need to be careful so as far as that is concerned shabba's concerned basically um we should not have a problem with the curfew okay that's good to know I didn't realize that I was wondering what would happen so everybody can go about like normal just be careful because of the situation we will make everyone aware of it in its time I see someone told me that maybe you can authenticate this that in 1968 uh there was there was the riots that happened in and they told me that a non-jewish person took upon himself to stand outside the Yeshiva Mary's World which was on I guess Garrison Boulevard at that time which is in the midst of the city and he protected the Yeshiva from from trouble I don't think at this point they needed uh the Yeshiva Now is really is way far out you know it's in the county I don't even think that I mean that's many miles away so I don't think they would have that issue right now correct um okay Mr Chef is there anything else you want to leave us with uh any other updates that we need to know or it's just um certainly the mishna says low that if not for um police officers and fair people would eat each other up and unfortunately that is what we're seeing and people need to fear the police and police need to make that we're afraid of them and if that's not what happens then these are the results so um I would tell our listeners from outside Baltimore that we're also really at least myself following it only on the news I mean I wouldn't know that anything was going on other than the news I don't see anything differently I don't I mean just uh it's not bar Hashem has not actually affected us um directly so so that is very true there hasn't been anyone that has been accosted in our area there has been no vandalism no property loss and I'll hold the whole Jewish area so even though it is a couple of miles from us it is downtown and it is nerve-wracking however our area for Hashem at this point in time is totally safe and we do have relatives and Friends cooling all hyper and nervous what is going on we were happy to report at this point nothing is going on that should continue thank you thank you very much for coming and uh good luck with all your work thank you very much thank you for inviting me so now we'll turn to Rabbi Franco okay so let's talk about some of these security issues that come up the Allah issues that uh that do could come up under such circumstances um there are many things that are applicable only on Chavez because during the week a person acts as as usual generally um and and some of these things are only applicable on shop so let's and we're not going to preface all these with God forbid right because we could just keep keep repeating that so we'll just say once you know if any of this happens um what would a person do if he sees uh a robber breaking into his house on chalice whether it's permitted to be done well it's very important that um that the police know what's going on in our community and that the police are informed and that our community works with the police I have to say that um people just had the opportunity to hear from Mr shatter um when it comes to dealing with the police there are often people who have frustrations and they tend to be vocal about their frustrations and they tend to be antagonistic with the police and um that can just lead to distrust and confrontation um a much smaller way to do things which Mr shatter has uh has led a community in for many years is to work closely with the police to to get involved with the police and he really is the last song and he's done tremendous amount of my community in um in in fostering this close relationship to Japanese he has of the police and much of it is done behind the scenes much of that is done quietly because that's the nature of the work and people do not necessarily know how much effort how much time goes into it there's been many many years and I think our community has a tremendous amount of gratitude to semester for that and it wasn't does see a robber breaking into his house so um again on Shabbos unfortunately the nwcp which drives around is limited some showers it's a modern technology has not yet come up with a Shabbos car app over here and we won't get into that discussion but um um and so we're not able to drive on Shabbos and and there are there are unfortunate people around the person sees the rubber in his house so as we know um one of the fundamental rules in in Yuba street is the high beam that a person is meant to live and with the exception of of course the three uh the three things which are yaharic valiava that a person should get off his life for not to kill somebody not to wash over to Zara not to be involved in a race other than that a person is meant to protect his life above all other things and includes within that is Shabbos the person that is protecting his life is uh supersedes concerns of Shabbos if a person is Rob in his house he shouldn't assume you should assume that it's a risk to his life the terror tells us that the concept of Bob and Mark Terrace that if somebody breaks into your house then the turbo does give a processant rights to uh necessary to kill the person um again I'm not suggesting that a person should just like do that in their own house but uh certainly to protect themselves in whatever way they can do and calling the police um is that's at least he can just at least that's right now what if he's breaking into that night let's say you see him not breaking into your house but into your store like in other words there's nobody there it's obvious there's nobody there there isn't any danger to life uh can you still call the the police under that circumstance right so um so when it comes to Shabbos um when you come a person to when his life is at stakehold even as there's a small possibility his life to the stake it doesn't have to be a large possibility even if there's a small remote possibility a person is allowed to um do whatever he can to take some stuff out of that danger if the if a cc survival breaking into a store and there's no one in the store and there's no concern about dangerous life the only concern is monetary loss that the person might walk away with some of his belongings so then a person is not meant to himself directly break the Shabbos in order to save himself a monetary loss we do have a principle that a person is allowed to ask a non-jew an instructor namjoo to do something which itself is only is is forbidden by the robonon in other words asking energy to do something for you on Shabbos is the sulfurbating prohibition and if you're asking him to do something which is also opening prohibition so that's so that so then the Allah tells us that asking a nanju to do something which is prohibited europeanically is a permissible in the case of loss or substantial loss so asking non-jew to telephone to call the police generally we understand let's say using a telephone is doesn't involve any fire any heat it involves electricity there is discussion among those skin but the the more the primary opinion is that that's uh we're bringing prohibition so therefore one one is allowed and one can ask a non-june tell them on to instruct a nanju to call the police if the person sees not only if he sees the person breaking into his store where it's already in the the robberies already in the process of happening but if he sees suspicious people looking into his car and it looks like they're about to steal it what about if he sees them walking away they really did they really stole and if they already stole something right so again if he sees the crime about to happen and it involves it's going to involve some monetary loss to him um so then again he should ask the laundry to call the police if the crimes already happened so then it would depend that's a very good question it depends on the situation if it's something where the rubber is still in the area and if the police came right away they'd be able to apprehend the Rubber and therefore thereby prevents further similar incidents happening so then yes then a person should ask a namjoon to call the police and the police will come and hopefully we'll uprend the rubber if it's already been um if that's not the situation for example if a person wakes up in the morning and their car has been broken into and it happens presumably sometime in the middle of the night and there Arbor is long gone and there's no evidence and it's just just a question of informing the police but it's nothing that they can there's no there's nothing they can really do about it immediately so then then it can he waits till after suppose includes telling Andrew about it and allowed you to do whatever he wants but to instruct the magic to call the police I don't think you should do another oh that's a good example this car is broken into um I mean there's probably not that much right they can do and you know what I would probably just walk to the nearest 7-Eleven to always seem to be police officers there and we tell them directly yeah you can definitely tell them if the police officer comes and you talk to him he's going to write down the information that's fine that's not the problem you're not telling him to do that um but um and that's fine even though you know he's going to do it and even though it's clear as he's saying World by well he's running it down that's not your concern and you're allowed to do that unless maybe unless it happens you know for sure he's Jewish then that might be an issue but uh generally that's not the case so let's take uh let's move on to alarm systems which is something that people uh you know what they want to have to protect themselves but they don't work so so well with job is because how do you walk out your front door if the alarm is on right so you want to be able to walk walk in your front door even though it's it's um it's alarm so there's a bypass switches let's talk a little bit about that issue all right so um a very very common question um um a person the person has to think about this week before jobs comes in obviously a person should uh when a person before a person buys an alarm system a person should look into the various uh things that are out there there are there are people who install uh from people who installed but know the different ins and outs of the right right or from people buy their switches these are the people who from people who run these kind of businesses have been in contact with robonim and have uh and have a gobstock him and they will be able to present to tell you what to do not only from a practical standpoint but also from my logic standpoints and the great sources of information in general if you really have an alarm system in your house so um what a person would want to do is have the alarm system set up in such a way that the alarm will go off if his windows get broken or things like that but he wants to be able to walk with his front door without setting the alarm off so generally they have some way that a person should be able to bypass the front door um now the two ways you can bypass the front door you can bypass the front door that's the alarm will not ring when you go through the door but the system will still be a wearable still in the computer will still know that somebody's going through the slow motion sensor which is detecting you're supposed to going through the door just that it doesn't actually cause the alarm to go off and then there's also sometimes you can bypass the whole motion sensor itself so ideally that would be the best thing to do if you could uh if you could make it they're going through the front door doesn't uh the computer doesn't even recognize that doesn't even register that would be the best if if if that's not the case if the computer will know will know is I mean there could be no in the sense that computer will uh that'll you know the computer will gather that information the computer well the motion sensor will detect it wasn't going through the door but it will not cause the alarm to go off so that's a question which doesn't have to ask the moon behind me over here the posting for the stock a his General stock is that the criteria for Malacca taking place in Charlotte for appropriation think business Shabbos is that the event has to be something which is perceptible to one of the five human senses so if a person walks through the front door even if the computer registers it but it no alarm goes off and nothing visible happens no lines change no no displays my changes right nothing you don't see anything nothing happens then that's fine now many people misunderstand this they think that if I have the if I have the system in in my garage down my nons in the garage that makes it fine that's not what he means because that is visible to the human senses it's just that you're not there to see it but it is visible that would not be acceptable even if you go and you cover it up and then you so then I can't see it because it's not it's not visible to me no that's not that's not included within this header and that's closing your eyes doesn't mitigate the problem but if it's something about let me just summarize if I have a bypass right on the front door and um and I open it and now I can open the door and nothing there's no lights that change there's no nothing on the keypad doesn't register you know Zone One open nothing happened I don't see anything there's isn't anything that's happening it's all internal I know the computer knows that it's open that's right behind me says is okay right correct correct okay correct all right very good um so I I just want to point out that well while he was speaking earlier Franco I twisted the microphone to the opposite way and it seems to have affected the sound quality much better so not everything is so so sophisticated sometimes there's simple answers to the the difficult questions okay now sometimes the person uh sets his alarm and the alarm he puts on the bypass and everything but somehow he made a mistake and the alarm goes off on jobs so what's going to happen is that the uh the the police are going to come in a sense right if you have it set up like that the police will come and they'll see it's a false alarm is there anything that you should or can't do about that that situation that's a good question so the different the different ways that the police might find out about its income some alarm systems are directly connected I'm also technically a dead advance but my understanding is that the sum alarm systems which are directly connected to the police station that as soon as the loan goes it'll register and they'll they'll they'll automatically know about it and then there are other systems where it'll make a loud noise but somebody would have to inform the police about it um if the police are going to well usually the way I think the way it works here at least in Baltimore is you if you want the police to come you have to have a central monitoring station that will uh you know get the registered alarm they will call you right so they will call you and then they will ask you if it's a false alarm or not and if you don't answer or you say there's an emergency then then they'll send it so they're going to call you okay that makes sense so they're going to prove you right so the question is are you allowed to pick up the phone and answer them so again um think every person should again uh should ask their own Rabbi I'm not sure if this is universally agreed upon if I may understand it from a behind him and my conversations I've had with him um is that because he's concerns that if people have these systems and there are alarms go off and no one picks and you don't pick up the phone because it's Shabbos and then the police are going to come and then they're going to get there and they're going to see it's a false alarm and they're going to ask you why didn't you pick up the phone and you're going to say because it's Shabbos and then it's going to happen a second time then it's going to happen a third time So eventually after eventually uh soon enough they're like they're one or two Chef bosses the police are going to say yeah you know the the the you know they're not going to take it seriously and then they're not going to respond so therefore therefore it is very important you know even though even though right now it might be a false alarm but if we want them to turn up when there is a real emergency when there is a real case of piku off in their fish which can which is which If there really is a book again as I said before there really is a rubber taking place then it is a case of so therefore it's necessary that the police take us seriously and therefore if necessary a person could could respond it doesn't mind you were available then that would be the best but that's generally not the case there's some good response a person could try and respond to the shimli maybe to take off the phone with uh in an unusual way with the elbows on my trucks it could lead to a because if you don't if you don't basically basically basically I believe that my vitamin feels that a person can't answer if necessary again but this is something she wasn't really trying to avoid but you know people are a person has to take you know we don't want to do this we don't want to break Shabbos if we you know even even in a way which is uh entering the phone again but we don't want to do this but somebody has to make sure before Javas that they said the system up properly properly again it's quite common I get these questions people come on Shabbos I forgot to set it up I forgot to do this you know when a person wants to really uh be part of the regular Friday schedules they make sure it's set up well but yes I had it once years ago years ago maybe a decade ago where my alarm went off I didn't set it right I didn't I didn't pick up the phone and the police came maybe it was very like lazy kind of they came like a half hour on shop this afternoon half hour later I don't know what their response time is normally but I did get the sense that they probably felt oh it's a Saturday afternoon is that air that neighborhood probably not anything serious and I told them when you know it went up by mistake and they left but since then whenever I want to open a window or that might be alarmed I checked to make sure that I'm allowed to ask one of my children to go check the switches to make sure that they're set that I could open the window and thank God I haven't had that I haven't had a false alarm since then so I'm just you know I think I agree with you you have to be be very careful not to take it lightly that you might yeah and we have to be very careful that the police did not kind of dismiss it dismiss us because they think that we don't take it seriously um it's important that they that they that they take it seriously response so therefore whatever occasionally that happens okay um I want to ask you something about um about having a person alphabet has it there we go has a has a uh you know they were setting some fires the the Riders were setting fires what happens if in case of fire but I want to tell you this this morning I was looking around um and I found some interesting discussions about like J David Blythe has a safer on on various halachic issues and um and he discussed it there and uh he brings from the Sicily azer in 1948 and in later years in Israel they have had need to leave their radio on on on Chavez to be able to hear any important announcements and I was thinking what would be if you know I don't think that this Shabbos is going to be you know it looks like things are coming down it doesn't look like we need to be on edge as much um but what would be if what happened yet Monday would be Shabbos we certainly would want to be informed of what's going on and we don't really have any way of knowing are they are are the rights moving up to the Jewish Community or not so you know would it be permitted to leave a radio on um yeah I wasn't going to leave his radio on just you should leave it on at a low volume in other words um it's it's considered the results in Laguna yeah like a like disparaging the Shabbos if there's louds and louds uh noise coming from a machine in the person's house um in an unusual way I mean air conditioners we live on all the time that's right the same but uh so having a loud video um that that would not be appropriate for Shabbos but if the necessary person could live on a radio on a low volume and then walk over next to the radio and sit down and listen to the news if they felt that it was necessary for them to uh to know a joint conceptualis what's taking place so the city says that uh to leave a note on it like on the knobs that says shop is kovish so you wouldn't come to fiddle with it and everybody should know that I know that a job is and I'm just doing this for security as Josh points out in in in Israel they have a um a silent station that doesn't broadcast anything it shot is silent on Shabbos unless there's an emergency and then and then they broadcast of course in Israel there's another issue that we don't wouldn't have over here which is that the the people broadcasting are Jews themselves and uh and you would be listening to their whatever you know if you didn't have this special station uh you may that that causes another concern America that's not an issue Israel has this this problem which is not really part of our uh something which we really uh on our minds but they're the police such a wish everyone's Jewish right whatever you're doing is not involving your commercials potentially but also the the that of the responders as well that's that's a good point the other thing that he brings out of my life is um what if um you have a caterer um and there's a okay there is a running an event and um and there is some security concerns and so so they had a uh a wedding planned and there was some uh a war or concern and so the question is when the the uh the customer is canceled uh because they couldn't make it from the United States wherever they were coming they canceled the event and the caterer could not book an event last minute so he had he had a loss and he discusses what what what who has to pay for it and so on uh his bottom line is Rabbi blush is sort of is that it's an indirect loss it's not a direct cause uh of a loss and um He suggests that if the the customer did not yet pay then he would not have to pay but if he did put down a deposit he would not be able to get his deposit back um so you know that could be something that could that could happen as well I mean if there were if there's a uh a wedding we had that was not not in this situation but a few years ago when there was some blizzards we had that kind of uh story where where the weddings that were curtailed I don't know if they were canceled but the people couldn't come it may depend on the fine prints in the contract right okay I'm sure there's something that the caterer probably has something in there to protect himself in that case right um okay so let's talk a little bit about a fire uh if there's a fire let's say you know the rides reach the Jewish area and he sees his his home is on fire what does he allowed to do what must he do what can he do right so um um technically the absence of a lot of factors would be that if if there's a fire which is burning down on the person's house and that was for sure no danger to anybody's life this house was the middle of an empty field and there was no one in the house so then a person pulling out a fire is one of the putting out a fire at the one of the malachas on Shabbos is lighting a fire extinguishing a fire and a person that would not be allowed to extinguish the fire and this house would burn down however there that that's uh that's practically speaking we would not apply that because we live in urban areas and the assumption is is that if a house catches fire the fire will spread and the neighboring houses and even if there's no one in this house there will be people in neighboring houses and there's a potential uh case of um and therefore therefore nowadays if there's a fire a person would be allowed to put out the fire himself if necessary and certainly yeah and certainly he would be allowed to call the the fire station to come and put out the fire um I think that the the primary lesson that we should learn from the Camaro which says that person should not not put out the fire is not a practical lesson but perhaps uh ethical muscle lesson that you have this person who owns a house and it's everything he owns is getting burned down and Chavez is more valuable than that he's he would have to he would uh it would be worth it for him to keep Shabbos even though he's going to suffer the loss of everything he has so we can learn from that the importance of Shabbos for our practically speaking to accept a potential uh uh danger to life that would ensue in an urban area if there's a fire a person could put the fire out um if I would just at least at least the fire which is I mean potential it might spread a person could put that fire out and a person could certainly call um call people professionals to come without the fight I remember when I was um I heard he wants to share from represent from from Yu and he said when he was younger he was at his father-in-law's table his father-in-law was a big big uh Thomas and there was a fire at the table the the candles um uh fell and the tablecloth uh caught fire so you know what do you do what do you do what should we do so they asked they asked the father-in-law what should we do I mean luckily what should we do so he said he couldn't focus for a second he said get a missionary with a good index because he wanted I have to look it up I don't remember so but anyway okay they didn't that was sort of they took the the tablecloth and they put it into the bathtub and then it you know that was a practical way of extinguishing it right so yeah I think that that's important lesson from the story which is that even though as I just said if there's any potential danger to to human life a person could put out a fire but um that's not always the case sometimes they're very localized fires and we have a principle that even though um even even though we said that a person should not put out a fire if there's no possible danger but uh indirectly putting out a fire is permissible if it's a place where in situation where there might be some loss so if the table cloth catches fire and once for sure allowed to uh according to everybody in any situation um one's allowed to pour water around the the edges of the fire so that when the fire the fire will spread it'll get extinguished ones for sure allowed to do what you said to pick up the tablecloth and Take It Outside put it in the bathtub put it in a place where the fire cannot spread so so um but if you if you have any suspicion that that won't work right then you should just put it out if there's any even a remote possibility that it might just push that but if it's clear that there's a another solution and then you should do that and again um what the person can call ground cableing which is putting out the fire through a groma again putting uh putting the putting water around the sides or putting the object in place with the fire will go by itself that's certainly permissible we can do that uh um you know himself without any any Quantum so what can a person do to mitigate any uh fire problem before Shabbos what should he be doing so you know apart from the rights that we had here in Baltimore and then rest we had this really tragic incident in New York uh not long ago where there was this uh again tragic fire which unfortunately caused the loss of life um and um I think that's um uh in person has to take the heart that when we see such a tragic things taking place we have to take to heart and uh and make sure that we are fully protected um the most basic protection of course is that smoke detectors in every room in a person's house walking smoke detectors it's going to take the future person checks and make sure they're working there's those basic uh basic protection that a person can't just say you know I'm gonna trust them Hashem person has to do the basic things that he needs to protect himself very important that a person do that person has to be very careful again that this this instantly strip based in New York a person has devices which are made for sharps use but unfortunately they're not necessarily always made by people who have the technical sophistication to make sure that their equipment is completely safe I think that we have to appreciate something which the stocking has done which is stocky was the forerun in the leader in which is that the Starkey works with companies that manufacture ovens like GE and other companies some of the companies to get them to make the models in such a way that they're compatible for use with uh you know on YouTube and and then it comes with their warranty and their protection and their Engineers are guaranteeing the safety um something that you will person wants to buy equipment which again and does the Underwriters Laboratory the you know it has a symbol on it that has been checked it's been that we know it's safe business to be very careful with their sharp scandals again people sometimes I feel are not careful enough they like it every week so they get used to it and they don't think about the fact that they have this open fire they're in their house the person has to be very careful to uh the candles in place which is safe so now leave them on attendance if there's any possibility that doesn't invention must take place sometimes the so it's very unfortunate you know it's so easy for the candles to shift um they people have these little oil containers which they put oil in and they light but the glass containers can crack and then things can the fires can spread person wants to make very short very careful that they're um very very that they make sure that they're really careful when I grew up this was back in England I was born in England when I was a teenager that was this really tragic incidents where people where people had um candles they left them near their curtains their curtains got to caught fire and again there was a loss of life a real tragedy um even though a person's doing a Mitzvah and we do have a principle but the person doing a Mitzvah chamber takes but tomorrow tells us that they're not in a situation where the damage whether whether the potential for harm is common then a person's expected to protect himself so um the person person has to protect himself again ultimately a person can never avoid real uncommon things when it comes to really uncommon things person has to have the trust in the bones will protect them but things which are common and foreseeable and uh and relatively likely to happen so that's a person responsibility to to take the steps necessary to avoid anything unfortunate happening okay Robbie Frankel thank you so much you think we'll take that opportunity to uh to close the webinar if you have any questions that uh that you'd like to to address to the star k or Jeremy Frankel uh send them to info star-k.org and what's your your email directly hello okay thank you reach you directly if you have any questions 410-484-4110 um if you'd like to be on our list of uh to be informed of when we're having the webinars in um what topic it would be uh send us an email again to info star Dash K info at star-k.org or give us a ring um I see there's been some discussion back and forth about uh um discussion about how uh calling not solid itself could be the topic for a whole webinar but I do what I do want to say to address that just briefly is that the Han solos are usually very well connected with their abundant and they're asking their their questions about Shabbos and they have a lot of guidance as to what they do um and so usually there's they know exactly what uh what is what is okay and what is not um I want to thank everybody for joining us and uh thank Miss Debbie Rosenstein for helping us uh a technical side and Rabbi roof enchantment also these webinars are recorded and archived um you can you can get them at kosherclasses.org or you can look on Vimeo and type in Star dash star Dash K kosher and you'll come up with all of our webinars thanks very much everybody will hope everybody will be safe have a great week take care be well