02-06-2019 Kosher Challenges In China and India

hello and welcome to Stark's monthly webinar held uh usually the last Wednesday of the month this month it's uh been uh pushed off a little bit it's a special edition uh we're going to speak about Kosher for star in the Far East and we have two special guests today let me bring them in here so we can widen the view that we can join them in on my right is Rabbi Michelle and on my left is Rabbi DAV Heber uh who are involved in the Far East that we have as a matter of fact they just visited there for a shabbaton we're going to speak about that um if you have any questions about this topic or any other topic feel free to call us at 4110 or email us at info at stark. org I want to mention that all of our uh webinars are recorded and they are uh on our on our um website stark. org or on our Vimeo Channel you search for Vimeo Stark kosher and you'll find it the last webinar we had with RAB Heber actually about uh some uh Cal calendar issues and one of the questions we had was which month will'll never have a B Smith that was a little Truvia that we had and if you watch the webinar you'll be able to see the answer to that and many other calendar issues um We join you to chat with us at the bottom of your screen you'll see a chat box um it's a moderator chat so if you type something in in a in a in a minute or so you'll see it appear on the screen uh we want to hear from you if you have any questions you have you want to ask something about what we're discussing please feel free okay so um this is our state of the star address I guess what's going on with star k in in the Far East in China and India and all those far away places and really R Michelle you are overall overseeing this this project um and we do have many plans there right we have many facilities that uh we are constantly visiting and reviewing and making sure that they are uh compliant with kosher right so star k we used to be more uh local right years ago was a Baltimore kind of uh certification you know the the unfortunate fact is there is such a thing as globalization and uh over the years products are not manufactured next door like they used to be uh so many of the products are are manufactured overseas and uh it's come to a point that uh many food products are needed you have to go there in the first place there are some things which are unique to their locations like spices and oo resins which are things that are manufactured very much in in India some in China as well those things are unique to their location and you have to go there for the actual manufacturing products cuz that's home base for these things that's where they're growing that's where the early processing is and that's why we have to go there but there are other things that uh because of costs and considerations um we have to go to where the product is made it's not that we want to necessarily go to China or India or the Philippines to manufacture something but that is where the market is for many of these things and that's where globalization has played a role in you know that's where a businessman if always trying to get the best product at the best price so he's going to go for where he can get it at the best price we have to follow suit in order to protect the kosher consumer right so one of the things that we're going discuss at the end uh is updates about the norish sheets people who E Sushi which I imagine is many of our uh listeners and uh you know it's it's it's a common food so the sheets the green seaweed sheets are made uh overseas right in in those those areas of world primarily but yeah I don't want to discuss I'm just saying we're going to discuss it at the end and we have a special report that was done by the Stark and presented to kous professionals that we we're going to make available to uh to our viewers to download or to to read um and so that's that's we'll discuss that at the end so would you say let's say I'm an average consumer right I just um I don't buy things from China on purpose right I just go to restaurants I buy my products is there any way that I'm not eating food or ingredients from China or it's well I don't know why you're picking on China specifically but where you live in a global world you have ingredients you have spices from different parts of the world you'll have food additives from different parts of the world uh food additives could include something like ascorbic acid citric acid lactic acid um amino acids um all kinds of different flavors and chemical that are used in the manufacturer of flavors and in a global world that we live many of these things are manufactured over seas and there's no way to guarantee that the product is kosher without going to those locations to see what's what's taking place over there I'm what I'm saying is basically if I'm eating kosher I'm most likely eating things that produce some something have some compon some component unless unless you make it you have your wife make everything at home you're not guarante I think consumers realize this but perhaps not the extent of it is that many probably if you go through a supermarket most consumer products on a shelf if you take a poll you probably see I would guess most of them are made domestically the finished product the cookie and the the ketchup and so on and there's a factory in the United States somewhere in the 50 states that's making this finished product but as Melle indicated those raw materials that ketchup company or cookie company or cereal company are those products are made from sometimes dozens of ingredients and and even if you see maybe seven eight ingredients on the label but those ingredients were made from further components I always wanted the ability to make a tree and take a finished product and map go all the way back as far as I can each ra material and you'll see a simple lollipop may have a 100 sources of raw materials that made up the lollipop and many of those sources many of our companies in in the Far East and and India and those far off regions are raw materials that manufacturers in America are purchasing from on an ongoing basis and that's why they want to be kosher because they want to sell to the kosher certified companies in America that are making that finished product that end up on on your on your supper table interesting so uh Hersh is asking was it Stark the first heure to certify companies in the Far East of a h I'm not sure it's hard to say who exactly was the first you know it's hard to make a claim because who knows there were there were other C agencies how about hundred of years ago were certainly but we were certainly I I would say in 1994 there was a minimal number of companies in in China um when I believe we had started on an ongoing basis we may even had a company or two before that but uh the original trip with Dr P we we we went to a um there were a few Distributors who we met with um they came we met New Jersey and came to harvest Dr P made a Pioneer trip to China check out those facilities that we were talking about 25 years ago and then you know as the says their the friends have a friend who have a friend they they liked they they they heard more about certification Distributors saw the need and the interest to it star k had you know work with them in the early stages and therefore it began to expand because each company said you want kosher call Star I remember Dr P tells the story when he went I don't know if it was that trip but one of his trips that they all came to look at him when he came cuz they they said the uh they heard the rabbit from America is coming they wanted to see what the rabbit looks like there was a little language confusion RAB a rabbit Rabbi and a rabbit which um which leads us back to the question I mean there is this language issue right r r Michelle so when they go into a factory so how do they know what what they're looking at or what there's you know the ing what the ingredients are are they fluent well I I cannot say that they're all fluent uent in Chinese um we always do get uh translators to accompany the um when we have questions on ingredients or materials there are things like Google Google uh translate and we have a staff in China I know you wanted to get to to uh you know how our staff is say how how we are um built up in the different countries that we have but we have a full-time office in China we have a sec secetaries that do work for us and um we have uh you know they've been working for us already for 20 years and we've had a good experience with them and their ability to read Chinese which is their native and speak with the companies to uh get out information as to you know what what what the ingredients are and so on and so forth what the what's going on um the Mas that we have many of them have over 20 years experience of being in these different facilities and uh you know when you go through a facility and you get familiar with it when you do your homework and you read up as to what the manufacturing process universally is on this type of product and there are always new Innovations and uh you look around what else is going on you take pictures you uh you know you do your you do your homework then you become pretty much uh uh acquainted with what the system should be and how things should look and what it is that you're looking at um but they know what they're supposed to find there and if they find anything different but they have an idea before they walk in there what they're going to be looking at most of these factors we try to concentrate on on more simple ingredients not we don't go out of our way to get anything complicated the simpler the better we're we're we're safer with simpler things and we don't sometimes you reject complicated facilities we'll we'll either read a report and say we can't do it or M will go in and say too complicated especially the fact it's it's it's there will make it the language barrier perhaps in America we would take such a facility cuz we have you know it's easier to follow and there we would say we just can't do it or just it's too difficult you were telling me before that some sitations of facilities that you know started off simple and became complex sometimes it's something that we're able to uh grow into and sometimes in situations that we have to walk away from can you give me an example um not to put you on the spot but I'll put you on the spot you think about that what some of the masim were are are fluent in in the local languages right who's well we have we for instance in India some of our are Native Indians they learned in in is and they've G gained some you know terod knowledge and they've learned inas and um they speak they're fluent in the native tongues in the Philippines we we have a young man who accompanies our and he does some of the simpler inspections for us and he is a native IND native Filipino he's a gedc and um so he's able to converse he's he's been quite devious I must say in some of his conversations with some of the people and he's extracted a lot of information that probably your average Mash would not uh may have missed uh because of a language barrier so if we had a been Tor wanted to apply for to the star k for position he speaks of fluent Chinese fluent we actually years ago when we started our our office in China we had a a younger man who was a balua an fellow that was fluent in Chinese and um he was actually so good that some other companies larger corporations stole him from us because they were able to pay him a lot more than we can consider because he cover of fluency but wasn't he wasn't he so fluent that he was translating between yes there are there are in there are different dialects in China actually there's hundreds of different dialects in China and he was so fluent that he was able to work a conversation between two different Chinese people who had different dialects Ron asked the question he attended in New Delhi a uh five-star hotel with part of the kitchen dedicated for mahadin religious vegetarians with separate utensils so religious vegetarians I don't think he means uh kosher just vegetarian vegetarian hotel is not he means just keeping keeping it religiously the major M knew I kept kosher and show showed me three out of the 20 Buffet containers I could eat from I was in in the buffet line ahead of three nervous Indians from Madras the from Silver Spring told The Devout Hindus what they could eat okay um another question did star only visit star companies or they also work for other ASAS otherwise do we share M I guess well there are there have been many situations uh in the Far East that we have done shall I say contract work for other we've gone into facilities on their behalf you could have another that doesn't have a you know they don't if they want a mashia they know we have a strong presence there they we're going to any place how many how many this at this seminar we had the 12 of us there and I had a few Mas who were not able to attend so we have on regular salary they were talking about the you know 125 who are always or fulltime or a fulltime they're pretty much busy mostly with starcade there's not a lot of time for them to work for somebody else but if they're somewhere what we'll do is if they if if another agency calls us it says we need a guy going into a chang chung let's say and you go there we do have a plant there so we'll say okay we'll when it goes there instead of going to our one plant we'll go into yours also and then you know we we'll help a little bit how cost effective for some of the hashas to um ask us to go in because they're saving right away on airfare because we have somebody there on the spot and uh if we're going into that local as RAB Heber said then uh we can kill we can hop r two places at one time so M they go they look they fill out their reports and then you they send them all to you reports are all sent to me and I review them together with Danielle Feldman my assistant and um if we have it orus then we you know we work it through with the company we have follow up with our offices we mentioned before we have an office in Shanghai in China which RAB alas benam is the office manager so go through where do we have offices Shanghai we have an office in Shanghai we have an office in coin India which we've had for now around 10 years um and we have also satellite offices in Columbo in Sri Lanka and we have another satellite office in um in Manila in the Philippines um which R AR Mendoza and his wife uh are Manning and we have also a uh a couple of semi offices that are working with us in some other places so Representatives so all these places so let's talk about the food right the Mas have to eat they eat kosher the Mas I sure hope otherwise they won't be employed by us right so where do they get all the where do they get the uh I mean there's nothing local right fruits fruits and vegetables you can get local much that's what they do they live on fruits and vegetables well so we have so much who actually vegetarian but um when talking about meats and stuff like that that's all being imported fromel from the United States from Europe wherever the mash are coming in bring a suitcase bring a su suitcase we have a mash going this week to India and uh we told him that he has to stop by the office Friday morning because we got a box for him and it's a suitcase just loaded with food to take over we keep a stocked kitchen in our office in uh in in in kin uh that office also has a couple bedrooms for the mash to sleep in when they're coming through the coachin area we have a lot of spice factories and oo resin factories in that area so uh we have them sleeping there as well uh because it's like a large uh setup over there it has a separate kosher kitchen which is locked keep the key they're going don't have the access to that and and um we have some bedrooms for there aside from the office space that we have there and we have uh for instance in in China we have a four bedroom apartment that's always stocked with kosher food the Mas are the ones who have control over the kitchen there totally so uh they have their home away from home in those locations so they tra they come let's say from some right how long do they stay in in in in the Far East to usually each tour is around 3 weeks you'll come in with shabas to leave shabas okay and they'll stay till for the next 2 and a half weeks and leave the next Thursday so they'll be home for jice Thursday night and then they go back they both go back toel United States they get to stay in that depends on their contract how we work it out they don't go the next following Sunday we let them get some home time too but uh I see okay it's I can I can say it's not an easy job travel is not an easy job and depending on which place you're going the infrastructure in China is much more developed than that in some of the other countries like India and it's much easier to travel in China than it is in India it's a lot easier on the Mas but um look it's it's it's a very it takes a lot of dedication and these masim are good dedicated people that have been doing this for years and uh it's really really heartwarming to see the dedication that they have and the Mysterious neish that they have for for for you for for Cas mhm I see so you were there yourselves right let's talk a little bit about that you were there for the Shabbat this first ever Shabbat tone in Mash conference conference in where was it Shanghai in Shanghai uhuh okay and what was it was a wonderful purpose of it purpose was to um spend time with the both formal discussions of of of operations and going through some technicalities of course they they met with um by Skype on M shabas Baltimore time Sunday morning uh in in Shanghai in a conference room in a hotel we saw her behind him by Skype they all spoke to her behind him and asked questions that was part of it they they G sh we shum we gave spoke on on different topics that relate both both the the even database helping him a little bit with the database basically we spent several days there um we came on Thursday I came on Thursday was there till Sunday um we they had opportunity to meet right behind him in via Skype on on Sunday morning I gave Shum and both I guess called sh and lectures meaning shum on issues that relate to both conscious issues relate to travel issues we spoke some technical issues Visa the star database um we we met you know oneon-one on formly and in informally uh issues came up regarding um companies how to deal with certain you know reports at the database uh just the general day-to-day things that they that they one one of the good things is that when you have a group of masim that are coming they were these were coming from India from China from the Philippines um all get that I mean they these are the different locations that they visit and frequent but they can cross reference experience that they've had and how they dealt with it and uh you know get get our input and get each other's input as to what's the best way to go forward and how to to deal with different situations if they come up with situations there's a question whether or not that the they can drink the regular milk in India and China or they or they have to bring CL soil other words in in in America we were people that don't uh drink rely on ra mosi's het that the regular milk is okay they don't drink does that apply in China and India or all these other places that's a very good debatable point probably we talk about that for a long time whether or not much as heter would be applicable in in these countries as to whether or not um they are like uh you know in United States that the is primarily predicated on AAS that may creat because of government oversight I mean we don't certify milk in India no we do not we do not Al I must tell you that the Gaz of of was not said on butter and we do certify a product that is made from butter a ghe product uh as stard D you can't make that you can't make that from it says that you know butter is is is is is okay even and was never never what about let's say the other countries besides China and India Philippines the milk is okay I do not I'm not sure what what our what our policy is I do not we do not certify anything dairy in the Philippines I see their fridge was stock with milk yes definitely was they bring that in from they bring it in a suitcase where did they get that freezes from from from in the United States so R you telling us that there was some travel issue that you discovered with they come from Marriage to the date line something one of the one of the my gab was on the International Date Line and and you know where it is and what happens when you cross it and you know when I've given the share in America Sometimes some businessmen will come over and say I cross it you know and these Childs come up but here we have MIM who was very very relevant on an Ono basis because according to some opinions the dayline runs through the Philippines and the first thing we came up with was was if a mash goes on Sunday we want to make sure that he's traveling he's not traveling Too Far East on Sunday because according to Kish which rman says we have to um take into consideration and not certainly not does on an area hold shabas which would include Eastern Philippines uh he would have a shabas problem so they actually internally re-reviewed his itineraries and came up that you know when he travels he needs to stay he can't go too far east I I think they were they were seeing exactly how relevant that would be does he need to get East on Sundays he doesn't need to they can always schedule in a way not the other isue they came up was our M from travels on chabas to Korea travels on chabas say shabas I'm sorry thank you he does not travel on chabas he travels on shabas or they said called right shabas the flight of uh the best flight is a m shabas flight to Korea and then he changes planes to go to Shanghai that flight lands in South Korea in the so South Korea so the first discussion really act at the conference was there's a little bit of area that you end up in the in the bay outside of the airport that according to Kish you're crossing the dayline so maybe for for half hour on the plane you're in an area where which might be suff shabas and this got into a whole discussion whether whether is the bay considered as part of the GL and you say grey Road grey is the concept of following the area so we said maybe don't do the last half hour of your flight then we even further we discovered that that it's on inia inan Airport which is the airport major airport International Airport in South Korea it's actually on an island and therefore if it's on an island Islands we don't say gryo and the gryo South Korea is connected to Mainland China and therefore we consider like Australia as part of the same day as there but if it's an island like Japan or New Zealand it's not considered so when he's Landing there it might still be shabas change of plans on Sunday According to some opinions it might be shabas and therefore we got to this issue which is still ongoing and how he should act when exactly when he's there and wanted to say not to do diis in inan airport on Sunday until sun down Sunday until until it gets dark on Sunday you can't do you know people have waited anytime you get into a discussion there's been a lot of I saw some of the emails going back and forth the the they really they understand the issue and they want to do the right thing they want behind in Pas made a list on his way home he wanted to say okay on Sunday has a problem I want to know what I can I can't do so on his trip home which is following the conference two weeks after the conference he actually made a list of everything he did walking to the airport changing planes to go back there to do that on Sunday see if when when he comes back in a few weeks on Sunday what he can do can he sign his can't sign his name when he checks in this and all all the different things Sean bear is asking that uh butter could also be produced from whe so you're saying that uh that the butter in India we don't accept the milk but the butter accept well the the ghe that we are giving a to is made from 100% whole milk okay so okay fine so that's not not an isue um okay sign your signals just colle so um when you were traveling there you went uh on you went around the world right correctly so you so some one of the other rabbis was commenting that you passed all the possible dat lines that's like a yeah that was very very special event we heard that you had binoculars looking out the window to see the date almost emotional it's actually the middle of the night everyone El was either sleeping or was busy with the what happens when you go over the date line like is there a Sonic Boom no AB what happens is you're on you're you're we I flew to Europe to Doak work um of some of the star facilities there and then I flew from from Europe to China and I landed in China Thursday morning and actually went to visit a facility there saw firsthand the the inspection um of our M there it was it was fascinating experience to to visit the plant and this is a plant actually that has a connection with American products that I've dealt with so it was just interested to see how they actually make the raw materials I had seen reports from but I was able to actually see it firsthand um then so moving ahead was skipping to Sunday I flew home and flying home I took off Sunday afternoon and then headed north and we ended up over Siberia and then really North the bearing the bearing straight and we we nicked probably the northern tip of Alaska barel Alaska at some point it's hard to know exactly where at least while you're sitting on the plane they do have a I was watching the map carefully it was in the middle of the night they have a big picture of an airplane that's showing you where you are you don't really know exactly where you are cuz the plane takes up an area of probably 100 miles you know there you can't know exactly when you're exactly so really nothing happens in you could go ask the captain to tell I wanted to ask the captain please tell me exactly when we crossed the line I could have done that but realistically that line according to many opinions I'm kidding I'm not I'm not that line is not according to all opinions so really K's line there's the there's the Civil line which go there's the line of the E of Siberia which is theas opinion there the so there's a whole whole bunch of opinions but by The End by the time I landed in Newark Airport them all mhm okay I want to go to this issue that we mentioned before um we have the uh the Nori Sushi Nori sheets that became uh we did extensive research which which was in Mas a real who works in China so let me bring let me see if I can bring that up for for for viewers hold on one second let me do this going to have to change the screen a little bit okay and let's see okay does that show okay so you can see on your screen a um a uh this is a PowerPoint presentation of the norish sheet production process we're not going to go through the whole thing um and just let's you know this the the the research that that was done was really really extensive and this this actually was presented to AKO at the AKO meeting which is the organization of kis professionals and Rabbi tendler uh presented this um and we can make this available for you but you can see here they show you how they how they start uh the uh the production um and you'll see from there that the nor sheets are actually grown in the in the ocean and you see themselves or in pools off of the ocean mhm and um he says here that that the Japanese uh norish sheets are the cleanest from a perspective of of kasas of the bugs the recent issues we've been finding uh we've been finding some uh insects and we've been doing that's why we did this all this research here so you want to give us a nutshell what's in the nutshell when we say insects it's not like we call you know it's not a flying bug usually that you're going to find in there you'll find little shrimp or or seahorses or something like that that that got stuck in there and really depending on what time of the year and the location how warm the water is how cool the water is those are all factors that will help determine as to whether or not there's any likelihood of shellfish or or or the like getting into the where where these um where the where the seaweed is growing U the seaweed is then harvested and w washed but um you know the best the best a the best prevention is the best uh the best medicine is is prevention and if it's grown in a situation that's less likely to have uh infestation then you're you're always much safer we do have only people the bottom line people should only buy with with a reliable heire that's for sure well there's a couple of factors involved one is that some of these facilities that process the nor sheets they where you buy usually is what's called a toasted norish sheet that's gone through a a little oven and uh often times you'll have uh companies that do what they call Seasoned Nori that all spray onto it some sort of seasoning which may not be kosher because for their markets for the non-jewish markets they may be spraying on something like C clam juice or whatever that is not Kosher so uh to buy from a non-certified facility you're taking your chances that maybe it was processed on the same equipment that was used for seasoned or non-season and then it could be could be you know that are that are are are tra so you know there it's it's wise to buy specifically from a coacher certified uh facility and again we have this issue of infestation the facilities that we are certifying um primarily right now we are only doing by specific Lots um where the Mas is there at the production to verify that the uh equipment is working properly a that the incoming uh Nori sheets are clean and B that if there are any impurities they will be picked up by the machines because they have these electronic eyes and the like that the the facilities that we do certify and and aside from that the facilities that we are certifying are only processing non-flavored ones we don't have problem with the with the utensil we do have a facility in Korea that does what's called a season but it's just a seasoning of oil of kosher oils those are the only type of seasonings that they have there question question is asking are the are the bugs are they ground up or they still whole they're pretty much the hold where I see where I see well there's there's there are sometimes pieces that sometimes whole the problem iset if you look at them you can often see them and even if something is there's on something that's not obvious but if you see it sitting on top of your nor sheet then there's no D B on that which is in front of you if you look through the pictures you'll see if you look through these pictures you can see what you what if you buy without a he without a reliable he what you might be getting and at the end of this whole thing we have some of our policies here um what the Mas has to fill out and what he has to look for to make sure that none of these problems are um when we're doing a noru all right I think we're coming to the end of our our discussion is there anything else that would be interesting to to wrap up the uh they had had a nice time with with with your visit and they felt the they felt that they were cared for and they uh you know that we were there for them I I think so very much so and I I personally got a big because seeing the dedication and the of the Mas that they have and how dedicated they are to their craft and how interested they are to try to find any new angle or whatever to to make the to make things work better and and bring up the standards of Kes I think that's a very big for all of us um and uh it's really it's really I think can can attest to it's a really a a good diverse group of people that are really interested in the betterment of of kous worldwide they're also very knowledgeable they know the they know they know what they're going for they have a wonderful relationship with M who really deals with them on an ongoing basis and is very responsive to the issues any Mash is always going to bring up issues the best ofas they're going to be issues in the factory in fact of says we never find any problems factories they never they never find that's a problem there are there are issues that come up and factories are looking for always bigger and better and we have that not only in China we have that in in any country in any plant almost almost any plant we have there's always going to be issues that come up and and R Mich is responsive to those needs is in touch with the r withman when relates to issues some of them are the technical issues maybe an ingredient is missing a a symbol maybe which which comes up all the time we're in midle of that right now with with uh ingredients unclear exactly we're in touch with that other what the story is this this is all the time um and that's those are more U issues that we could handle speaking to other agencies or if it's a stark product speak to other Rabbi but when it's issue you know the r is is a touch with the Rob so really is very very nice the whole the structure of the star k in that sense obviously Dr P is dealing with the business issues which certainly come up with new companies as we expand but again isues are going to the RO the takes on all of that and and he's passing many times at the meetings and on the phone for should we do this is this something we can get involved is this the right do we have to Cas don't we have to Cas here the list goes on and on and on and that's really what what makes a cous agency where you have I think just the fact that we have say to speak boots on the ground more so than some others uh we have the we have the infrastructure there and boots on the ground uh to go into the facilities and to communicate with the facilities so that we're really on top of all of our situations you know be it in India be it in China be it in the Philippines right if if like you mentioned before if there's no never any questions or never any challenges there something wrong if you call up a raak and you say what you know is everything what's going on in this facility says well what could be the problem there's no problem you know there are other agencies in the region that are also working very hard and and again know the omness and know what needs to be done I think I think all the agencies uh all every agency but many of the agencies um that are that are in the region are are on top of ation again star has many fulltime there there some last many questions sha is asking considering how large China is how does star manage to keep on top of all the factories I think well that was answered basically by our whole discussion here um you know we again the the frequency of going in having people going in and U experience into knowing what to be looking for is obviously a very very important tool when you're walking into such facilities M and being able to say no if it's too complicated right or being able to say no we can't start being able to say no you've expanded too much we can't give picture on this and being able to say no we can't continue certification I mean as nonprofits I mean we don't feel the pressure of having to take correct every company or if we drop a company oh no there's a few thousand paycheck out of my pocket your paycheck is not going to be less this week cuz we dro the company right that's the advantage of being a nonprofit we don't have that right we don't have that Prof that that that that pressure um is asking do have to set aside their own personal when working for the oras when working for the star k not sure what it means I know people setting aside their own personal Kus but but humus I think we try to be uh respectful for let's say let's say Mash has a Capa that he's only GNA he's going to wait his Market to wait 72 minutes or 90 minutes after after it say to travel you mean does work so those are things that we work with you know nobody if I have a I I I think that's something that I should appreciate in the person as an a a person and um we try to work with him as might mean as far as the company let's say hold something M like I hold you caser the doesn't Cas plastic for instance um right right if he doesn't if he drinks is can he be can he be a in a place that's doing something I think commonly that's done right is not the kaser plastic if if a if a individual who has his own R and his own home he'll Cas a plastic is's doing work for Star K on star k work he's not going to Cas a plastic right basically we expect him to do what whatever the r what the from the guidelines that we have are are set by the RO as far as k is concern if a person has his own personal so that's something that I think we we generally appreciate Factory though factory setting then we he'll he'll Follow by that right I think that that that would answer that question are there any last minute questions we can try to take them otherwise we want to thank everybody for uh for joining us again this webinar is usually held the last Wednesday of the month at 12:00 noon uh we're here in our offices in Baltimore more uh Maryland maybe next month we'll go to China and do it from there in February the last Wednesday it's coming up pretty soon it's coming up pretty soon right right um sometimes when I've been in in Nell the last Wednesday of the month I wonder if we should just you know have a satellite onsite yeah in there to sell the last part of the trip which was very nice was was you know we took a tour together which brought certainly camaraderie tour of the Jewish Jewish Shanghai did you see the mirror we saw where the place where the mirror was it was a it was a base iron shol which is which was torn down in 1985 actually doing more Construction in that area now there now it's it's a business district building it's it's a it's a business district so we did see the site or the lot where the mirror was but we went to the neighborhood where they lived which was old Jewish ghetto which was a fascinating uh experience to see we saw a building which the tour guide said was you know certainly mirror and another people dormed in this building and uh it may may even been an auxiliary Bas medish did did you did you wear your Yuka there yeah regular regular hat I mean sorry I mean your hat hat no problem no problem there's no anti-Semitism right well one of the things the tour guy mentioned was the Chinese and the Japanese um to their you know to their credit was you know you had refugees there during the war and um they were allies the Japanese were allies with the Germans and yet even though the Germans were putting pressure they really had no internal antisemitism because they hadn't experienced you know Jews were something totally new to them and and there was some was a foreigner they're a foreigner in fact the ghetto was was I think known as the area for stateless refugees it wasn't even called a Jew maybe nickname the Jewish GH but they refer to it as area of stateless refugees it was just everybody stateless in other words whoever stateless the Jew or not Jew so it was very interesting and really at the end at the end they did not carry through with loyal potential um evil ideas of the Germans that that had asked the Japanese to do certain things The Story Goes that the one of the Japanese called in the over and he asked them why did the Germans hate you so much and he cleverly said because we're Oriental I see okay well thank you for joining us thank you RAB Michelle thank you RAB Heber for being spending time here and I want to invite everybody to come again next month uh if you want to see the replay of this you can look on our website star.org or on our Vimeo Channel I want to thank Rabbi Chapman and Miss Rosenstein for technical support today and we look forward to seeing you again take care be well