Shimru - Keep It! Losh - Kneading, International Shabbos Project Learning Program

this tour class is brought to you by torahanytime.com to the international shimro Shabbos program I want to thank Rabbi Brett and his partner for uh hosting tonight's event and uh today in our continuing uh shimru program we're going to learn about the 10th malacha after Zariah sir Lush in a way Lush is the malacha that comes up most frequently in the kitchen now the first thing we need to know is where was Lush used in the mishkan well there are actually there are two approaches was used in the mishkan and by the way this macalika supplies to the first eleven malachas which are called sidura de Paz the shot of rasheem is Lush was necessary in the production of dyes to color the Woolen coverings of the mishkan so this week's parishes truma and we know the curtains were made of red dye talashani came from an herb That Grew From the ground how did it Grow from the ground Texas were in the mid bar the mid bar flourished and they were Ground into powder they were then mixed with water to produce the thick paste mixing the powder with the water is Lush that is the shita of Rashi going quoted by Robert Ram benarambam he says that Lush was used in the mid in the mid bar for the making in the mishkan for the making of the lechem haponim and the menache wheat was grown uh was ground into flour and then kneaded into dough that's Lush okay what is the definition of lush as we're going to see the definition of lush is basically combining tiny particles into a solid or semi-solid mass through the liquid through a liquid medium which is basically how dough is made you take minute particles of flour they melt and they fuse together into a solid Mass through the adding of water so basically lushes you take solid particles and you fuse them through the agent of water the ramam says if you are Lush if you need the the size of a dry fig grigorous that's the off the Toda is if you mix dirt and water together in the process of making bricks that is the Toda of lush so it's not only by food but even in the production of bricks and the Israel drabanon is you cannot grind you cannot mix roasted flour with water because you might come to mix unroasted flour or if you have bran which is not fit for kneading you can't need it because you might need something which is fit for kneading okay now here is the macolicus you have to know and bear in mind well could you hear me okay good um you don't know if I'm recording it who's who said who's talking now I have my own I have I'm recording it in many ways everything is required everything's recorded everywhere now it's just not the cloud the cloud isn't recording it maybe but you are now recorded for posterity on torahanytime.com it's available at York recorded for posterity on podcasts everyone on podcast on uh on podbean or whatever it's called is Gonna Know Rabbi Avi yudakin also on shots illuminated you will now be eternally etched into chance illuminated and likely if the share is good they'll put it on the OU website so that's all that's so you got to be careful if you chime in because you never know what can happen fine so the gemara says like this gemara says on the fierchas a let's say one guy puts in the flower and after that another guy comes with the first guy wouldn't call him rubain and the same guy we're going to call him zavulon why just to keep you up okay zvulon comes along and he mixes in water rebbe says the second guy is but what do you mean nobody mixed it you don't have to mix it the moment the water touches the flower the flower fuses together even without mixing it yes it mixes together it fuels together better when it's mixed no question but when you but when you um when you merely add water to a soluble material it fuses together however you see says you're not Hive until you mix that some alcoholic is ready and rubioisi Rabbi says you're high of merely for adding the water Rabbi says that your hive only if you mix it now let me jump ahead to something very important and that is we're going to ask sir both which means as follows most reshine him like rubioisi that you only Hive if you mix it however the chuma sadashan paskins like rabbi that you're high of merely for adding the water um if you look in the mission alephan the mission Brook says royiv by the way is where mahmir even though most we shine him say you're only higher for Lush if you need it okay when I say need I don't mean n-e-e-d I mean uh k-n-e a d right when you when you mix it so most re-shine and passing like reviews that you're only Hive if you mix it however the balhatrumah is paskins like rebe and the mission Brewer says the Minogue is to be mahmir Mr Burke we found in Sim and shinch of Dallas foreign now there's another interesting Mach like us and that is aside from whether you're high for mixing in the water or only if you mix it or or only if you actually need it within the shita of rabies who says only if you mix it maybe that's only talking about abaye says flower which is something that is mixable meaning we know flower when you when water comes into contact with the flower it causes the particles of flower to fuse together into some kind of paste into dough but there are things that even with the agent of water the the materials do not fuse together those things since anyway they can't mixing doesn't really do anything maybe reviews would agree that if you merely add water that you're hive so in other words there's a concept of bar Gable love bergible and this is mentioned in very fine particles that dissolve and fuse together easily when coming when when they're in contact with water powder fine sand instant potato flakes baby cereal so these things they are barg evil and you would raviors would say your hive if you mix them by the way the ramosha has a chuva are you allowed to prepare instant potato instant mashed potatoes on Shabbos what you do is you take them you take uh this powder potato powder you pour water you mix it ramesha says no that's a lush to eraser this is something that is barrageable it's easily mixable and you mix it you're definitely the question isi who holds your only Hive if you actually mix it what if it's something that's not really mixable it's because it's very large or it's non-degradable and the particles will still be recognizable um although they may cling together like sand Ash so there are poison that say abayi is of the opinion that for that type of item all you have to do is pour in water and you'll be Hive you don't have to mix it however revoice if disagrees and he says according to review your only if you then mix it okay you only have if you then mix it then the gemara says a very important thing because we mentioned that in Rebbie Reby holds that your hive if you merely add water to something which will fuse together if you add water to flour your Chaya for Lush and the gemara says that the following tomorrow they both agree mix roasted barley with honey on Shabbos or the shoizumi could drink Egyptian beer but the gamar asked what do you mean I thought you're not a need on Shabbos foreign coarse mixture but if it's a very loose mixture when you're mixing water into the flour so it becomes a a very coarse mixture it becomes it's a semi-solid a mush so then your high evanchabis but if it's a very loose mixture if there's so much water added that it's still very liquidy then you are allowed to add that kind of liquid on Shabbos however the gemara says you need to do a shinoy what kind of shinoy if during the week you first put in the vinegar and then you put in the barley then on Chops you put in the barley then you put in the vinegar so from here we learned that even according to Rebbie who holds it by merely adding a liquid to a soluble item it is Ulcer that's only if it's a coarse consistency but if it's a loose consistency it is mother as long as you do a shinoy meaning you make you change the order that it is put in now again who do we pass can like to be passing like rebbe that merely adding water to soluble material is Lush or do we passing like a VOC that you have to actually mix it so we have the sock of the trumas haddashen says Venera it would seem Lim so I had to look that we could find the leniency according to everyone that according to revi that merely adding liquid is a problem if you make it very liquidy it's not considered Lush and you just end plus you change the order what about according to review Huda according to him if you mix it it's going to be a problem so says even if you're going to make a very fine and loose mixture you have should do a shinoy and that you should not use the cleat to mix it but use your finger to mix it in other words like this in the world of revi we are merely adding water to something is an issue so the way you get around that is you add a lot of liquid this way you make it liquidy and you change the order if you normally put in the flour so first put in the water and in the world of rubioisi that nothing is violated until you actually mix so in this case the way to get around mixing is to use a shinoy in the mixing namely you use your finger now here is let's get let's cut right to the chase what do I mean let's cut right to the chase if you have a semi-solid dip you have avocado and you want to mix like a liquid to it you want to mix lemon juice into it that would seem to be uh somewhat problematic how are you going to mix the lemon juice because you're basically using the lemon juice to cause the pieces of avocado to fuse together and form somewhat of a different consistency certainly you're causing the lemon juice to be of a thicker consistency so that could potentially be an issue what about two Mash an avocado or a banana without adding adding any liquid after all once you start mashing the banana or the avocado the natural liquid of the avocado or the banana will come out and we'll start mixing with the banana and the avocado and that potentially could be Lush says that he's inclined to say that if the liquid that you're using is the natural liquid of the fruit or the vegetable that's not considered Lush and by the way remote says that explicitly that if you want to mash an avocado or you want to mash a banana and use its own liquid as the liquid agent to cause the particles to fuse together with moisha poskins inclined to say that that is completely permitted okay so as long as you're not using an external liquid but the question is when you bring in an outside liquid what do you do with the uh the lemon juice and the avocado so based on what we learned the the way to do that would be to apply a lot of liquid change the order that you put it in um mix it either with your finger or in a crisscross motion so basically they're three three ingredients that are needed to get out of any problem of lush namely you want to make it you want to make it very loose number two you want to change the order that things are put in and number three in the mixing you want to do the mixing in a uh in a unusual way namely you want to use your finger uh you want to um or use a crisscross cross motion so what I would like to do is speak out probably the most uh I'm gonna Veer off from the sheets today um even though just for your for your uh yadias hashabas the sheets sort of end off with an interesting because almond if you want to mix ketchup and mayonnaise on Shabbos what is ketchup and mayonnaise produce I don't know Russian dressing or something I don't know something like that yeah so if you're gonna mix lemon juice into ketchup you can't really do that because you're causing the lemon to get a thicker consistency but here you're taking two pastes each one is already mixed to mix them together so if one paste is thick and the other is loose so you're going to make a thick consistency out of the two that's for sure awesome but even if both pays have a thick consistency let's say a ketchup and lemon juice I'll ketchup and and mayonnaise says you can't do that remotesha says Nah you're allowed to do that they're already of the same consistency nothing's tape nothing's really happening when you mix the two together but what I would like to speak about is probably the most common uh example of lush and by the way the the cannot be mastered here in a half hour as uh as good as our group is and we have a very hush of a membership here in the shimru Shell Lush is something you could spend uh three months on not 30 minutes but I I want to talk about um I guess today what we're getting is some of the basic concepts namely the magoicus rebi and rabiosi revi holds merely adding liquid is a problem only if it's um mixed you have within the world of robust it's only if it's mixed maybe you would still be high if it's something that doesn't mix well we learned that in rebbe there is a leniency if you do what something something called blee loss so Iraq a very loose consistency provided that you switch the order but you also have to get around the problem in revoicei about the mixing so you're going to mix either with your finger or in a crisscross motion and here's the big Shyla the Shyla is many people like to eat chopped liver or egg salad on Shabbos that can you make egg salad or chop liver on Chavez that's the question so what's the problem you take in an egg you're grinding it very finely yeah you're putting mayonnaise into it and the mayonnaise is now bought now if you if you chop and dice the egg finely the mayonnaise is basically taking small particles and fusing them together this is classic Lush making egg salad on shabbos's classic Lush so if you don't want to add the the mayonnaise go ahead just have like dry eggs and some Sybil some onions but most people like mayonnaise in their eggs so what do you do what do you do with your eggs on Shabbos so the best thing to do now if you grind it very finely besaw many people either put a mayonnaise or they put in oil either one is an issue of lush So to avoid any shyless don't chop the eggs or the liver finely make it big Pieces by the way I happen to like like big chunks some in my egg salad why am I telling you this because I feel so close with you that I'm sharing with you all these hello because I want to tell you my personal preferences of egg salad but when you chop it very lumpy it's not called bully Ava it's not a thick mixture because you're not really fusing together the particles basically the particles are each particle is by itself this piece of egg is ruvane the other piece of egg is shimmine and they're not fusing together to become one big mishpaka they they remain an identity there's some gooey mayonnaise sticking in between them so if you if you chop it um uh coarsely then it's not susceptible to Lush you could mix oil you can mix mayonnaise and you have no issues and you can eat your your egg salad without feeling guilty that uh you know I like the egg salad but gladstein said on Thursday at 2 30 that there's an issue of lush to making the egg salad this way you could eat without any karate without any guilt Guiltless egg salad is coarse egg salad however some people say are you kidding me I don't eat my egg salad course I mean are you Jewish that's not how you eat Jewish egg salad Jewish egg salad is finely ground that's the way they ate it in the Alta Heim that's the way my Alta Bubba ate it and that's why I'm gonna eat it so what do you do if you have one finely ground egg salad you know what you do you make it before Shabbos see then by the time Shabbos comes it's gonna be spoiled no it's not you seal it in a Ziploc in a glad container or in an airtight container you put it in the fridge and in most cases will remain perfectly Fresh So you say whoa wait a second doesn't the gemara say a need that five things if you do it you're liable for your own life and one of them is if you eat a peeled egg overnight that if you peel an egg and you leave it overnight it's dangerous to eat it the next day so if you're gonna make Exxon before Shabbos so you're violating this Kamara Nida so there are a few uh ways around this number one the fact that you chopped up the egg and you added not uh other ingredients oil salt pepper revasner says that gets out of the issue of eating a peeled egg that was left overnight number two many boys can hold that a cooked egg is not subject to the prohibition of a peeled egg there's also another opinion that a egg in a sealed container that's left overnight is also not subject to the prohibition of um eating a peeled egg overnight but between these three leniencies number one you have added ingredients number two it's cooked number three it's sealed you have nothing to worry about with your egg so either the best it's chunky egg salad the next base uh it's egg salad prepared before Shabbos if you didn't prepare before Shabbos and you are a stickler for your finely chopped egg salad or liver there is still a way to do it number one reverse the order if let's say um usually you add the liquid to the salad if you first put oil on mayonnaise and then the egg salad reverse it if you first put in the X out and then the mayonnaise reverse reverse it how you usually do it and number two don't mix it like that mix it crisscross so you say that's awkward it better to be awkward than uh violating Lush I'm telling you you're better off having an awkwardly nobody could taste the awkwardness in the egg salad so again the best states is make it chunky the second best eights is make it before Shabbos the third best states the third eights is reverse the order and crisscross let's say you don't like chunky you don't want to make it before Shabbos and you will not do mix your ex out in a crisscross motion and you still want to make Exxon is there anything to rely on uh there is there are some play skin that say that Lush does not apply by something that doesn't grow from the ground the eggletal is of the opinion that something that doesn't go from the ground there's no prohibition of lush secondly some say something which is cooked there's no Issa of lush some say anything needed for that meal it's called little by little and there's no answer of lush should you rely on that no she doesn't rely on that but if you see somebody do that it doesn't mean they should not be considered for him but there's what to rely on but it's a little shape I would call it uh you're not standing on Terra Firma it's not really uh a very strong reliability so the best way to make your egg salad is chunky egg salad on Shabbos next best do it on Friday next best reverse the order and crisscross motion and if you go to someone's house and they they're making their eggs sound like they do during the week don't throw Rotten Tomatoes on them there might be reason for basis based on the fact that Lush does not apply to something that doesn't grow from the ground and something that's cooked and something at the meal but it's better to take advantage of the loopholes that we mentioned in the beginning okay thank you everybody for joining us what the fish be the same as egg salad I would think in other words either make it chunky which I think tuna is easier to make chunky um I'm not a big tuna fan anyway you know tuna fish is like in the old old school by Charlotte they have the Crusty tuna fish that they made last Tuesday you know but um tuna fish also if you go if you want to make it very fine make it Friday you want to make it on Shabbos then make keep it coarse you want to make it fine so then reverse the order yeah tuna fish is the same does that make sense thank you everyone next Thursday is a tiny sister so uh you're off and uh we'll continue after Purim habalinaiva wishing everyone a freelochen Purim and yes tonight there's what sure there is no sure tonight oh it's you could you could listen to it now okay okay Cult of everyone call them bye you've just experienced another Torah class brought to you by torahanytime.com