S3 Eps 5. Let's Talk To Today's Menahelim

The word ADD is overutilized. We don't appreciate ADD kids at all when really the ADD kids are the most successful people in the world and they're the ones that going to make the money and support our yeshivas in the future. >> Yiddish kite can never be weaponized. A kid can never see Yiddish kite as that which is causing them pain in life. >> One of the hardest things to set up in our schools, the remedial schedule, because yes, >> it's not necessarily true that the child who didn't need it last year and needed it last year will need it the following year because so much of it depends on the personality of the teacher. I'm saying has come a very long way from when I was in school and we had older Rabim and old school and uh and we'll leave it at that. >> Welcome to the learning curve podcast brought to you by Mishbaka magazine. >> We're raising children in a changing and challenging world. >> So let's tackle the important issues facing families today. I'm Rabbi Garfield, manal of Yeshiva Teras in Houston and I love talking about >> I'm Rabbi Ari Shfeld Manal of Yeshiva Katana Manhattan of Bypra Manhattan director of camp. I also love talking and of course a little bit of fishing. >> Join us as we answer your questions and discuss the topics that matter to parents the most. Welcome back to another episode of the learning curve as we continue on in season 3 and really tonight um we come to you from the term circumvention. So this episode Rabbi Garfield is unique it's different our background is different but as we continue to answer the questions from the parents you know after our shabas that we just experienced I think we come maybe a little bit of a different vantage point. So I look forward to this episode maybe more than others. Absolutely. This is a a shabas of we're so focused about right that's what we do our whole lives me and you all we do is talk about so to be with so many you know whatever it is 1500 other people who care so much and it's just so great to be here >> and you know there was a lot to take out of the convention um I maybe we'll each share a little bit then we'll take one question then we'll bring on our our kasha guests from all around the country that that's part of the beauty of the tasur convention which makes this episode special Elliot Brdney um spoke before Musf on Shabas and he said over a story a very powerful story from that he he himself heard >> wow >> thatron was speaking to the best eighth grade rebby inim his name was this goes back literally I maybe 80 years the story and he asked and the way he said it was if you do the math the eighth graders that he had in this issue and back in those days probably along the lines of Shaman and Rebel Yashu, right? There was it was you know future Gdelar were in that class and asked him what is your secret sauce? >> What do you do that makes you know you the most popular Rebi around and he said I speak with my students more than I learn with them. These are his talmid that ended up being future and rebellia was exhorting usalim rebim speak to talidim to embrace them. Um I want to share one story that to me was over shabas didn't come from a rebby. It gave me chills. I I'm hopefully not going to give up too much information, but someone at this convention um as a child that I taught my early years as a Rebi, a very challenged student, a a close student who did really struggled, really struggled. I had an I thought a great year with him as a sixth grade rebby in Yeshua Spring Valley. Um and today he is as the fairy tale stories go learning in the mirror in married in K. I met his parents here um haven't seen them in a while and they said to me that in sixth grade he was so closed and he was angry and he was tough and I said what changed him? He said just the following words. Her mother his mother and father. He said he went to Waterberry said and um and he was a good basketball player. I said so that was good enough for them. said it was the what happened was he went to yeshiva that all he had that at that point in his life was basketball and that was good enough for them for real and he felt seen felt valued and he felt important and that was the beginning of his journey and now he's sitting and learning so we're in in in in boys and girls that are hopefully not clothed and not angry but but all the more so to embrace them we talk about this a on the podcast. If it's basketball, if it's a musical instrument, if it's art, whatever that is, we have to find it. We talk about all the time and it was just another another example of that. >> Beautiful. >> Um, what's what what's been your uh you're so busy. You're walking around, everyone's just following you around like like this is your convention. So, >> it's true. I love it. I love talking to people. If I meet someone new, I say, "Who are you? What do you do?" It's great. I just want to comment on what you said is that what's so nice is we have Manalum here. There are monalam here from all over the country and really internationally even and they do share that value. It's like there's so many um shared approach that we recognize that we have to take care of kids. >> We have to take care of the the children. It's very it's wonderful with all the problems that it's so inspiring to be around makam from New York and from Lakewood and from LA and from Chicago and from wherever they're from and they hear the same schmoo that you just said >> and and really believe it and it's an inspiration and hope I hope that uh we're starting to write the ship and and get the system oriented to really care take care of children. I had I led a panel of of English principles which ironic that that they looked to me to discuss behavior and doing well in English but I we were talking about how the English is so important for Kadesh to be on one page same page and I asked by raise of hands how many of you manal or English principles feel that kadesh department supports you fully and every single hand went up >> so something that is discussed so often you make sure that your school is one team or one came. It was such a >> We're getting somewhere. >> We're getting there. We're getting there. You know, so what's tell me your your convention wisdom of the day, your moment. >> So much so much. But I had an opportunity to speak with Ray Bender last night to moderate a panel which he was answering. >> So did I. But I'm not going to repeat that that my my story there. The child that I asked him. I'll keep that private. >> Wow. >> I will not. >> Okay. Well, this was in front of a few hundred people. So it wasn't private. >> Okay. >> And uh we were you know he was it was him. He was I was asking him questions about Kanuk and I left there reali realizing that there was a theme of almost all the answers that he had. We asked about buying special clothing and laning kids coming to laning and kids kids coming to the shabas suda and all sorts of things like that. And the essence of what he said is yiddishkite can never be weaponized. A kid can never see yishkite as that which is causing them pain in life. So if they're not able to buy certain clothes because their family is in or they're not able to play with their friends or they're not able to listen to certain music or whatever it is within reason. Obviously never allow yiddishkite to be a weapon in their mind. You have to make sure that it's a positive loving connection. And he's it was so refreshing to hear him say it so proudly and so strongly. And some of the parents who are there and the people asking are like are you sure? And he's like, "Yeah, I'm sure. Don't pressure your kids. Don't make them crazy." And it's a very healthy thing to hear and to think about. And I was >> So, speaking of pressuring your kids, watch this. Watch how we do this. And things they can't afford and it's hard for them. >> Yeah. >> Question. >> Let's go. >> Drum roll. Um, so I'm going to read you the first question and then we'll go to the spotlight question. We'll bring on our guests. So, here's the question that that came in. Dear TLC, my daughter insists that all their f my daughters insist that all their friends, every single one of course that's how it goes, right? Every single one are going somewhere for mid-inter vacation this year and it's just not possible for us. We just had Khan vacation. Can't schools have ramanas and the parents and come up with an option for those of us who can't afford a mandatory family vacation just because the schools are off. So what do you do? I guess in Houston there's no such thing as winter vacation but less less hot vacation. Um the challenge of having >> winter vacation or vacation in general and then you asking a good question >> like talk about balance. >> So you have one vacation >> so we're we don't have so much vacation. We only have one time bal >> how long is your vacation? >> It's about eight school days. Seven or eight school days. It's literally from December 23rd >> to January 1st and whenever that falls out you know is is when >> I don't think any schools in the tri-state area >> No. Even out of town. I mean we're it's definitely a unique feature that is not celebrated by >> but the question obviously still stands. You have a parent who who's who >> that was just my reaction that there's that there's two in terms of that obviously you always start with when they say everybody you know everyone everyone >> the I I have parents every year I get phone calls from parents it's not what you're doing to us is not fair. You're putting an an unfair expectation because every because a lot of people go away and our kids want us to go away. They want us to go to Florida. They want us to go skiing and it's not fair. Um I don't know what the what what's the um meaning and therefore they want less vacation. Therefore they want yeshivas to supply trips. Uh you know I supply trips in the summer but but >> I mean some yeshivas make rules right? You're not allowed to go certain places. >> There are a lot there are yeshivas in in New York that if they have boy school and a girl school they'll give them diff vacations at different times and the parent can't go family can't go on purpose. >> On purpose. I I I I don't Okay. This is I asked you the question. >> Listen, I I think it has to do with all financial matters. What do you do when kids in the class >> Ruba the Ruba are able to do a certain thing that your family's not able to, >> right? >> I think that comes down to some basic parenting. Not to say simple, easy parenting. I just mean like basic in the sense that that's what being a parent is about is helping your kids understand the qualities and challenges of your family and being okay with that. >> Listen, I'm sure we wish we made more money. I mean, it's not like that I'm not doing it on purpose, but this is our reality and we've chosen to spend our money on X and Y and not Z. >> Yeah. I I grew up I'm not um >> you know giving away too much of a vision. My my my mother was a Moa. My father was a RV. Know the first time I was on a plane since I was since I was five was I was 21 going to >> so never went to Florida. Great adventure was maybe if the NCSY had a free ticket. My father got us there. No such thing as as you know the only time we went skiing is if it was snow and we down with no school and we would sled down the back. >> How did your parents How did your parents did they address that with you or was >> No, we couldn't afford it and that was okay. In other words, um okay for me ask my siblings and my sisters and brothers was okay for them. But I you know this is obviously a big a big question in terms of whenever >> who's whose responsibility is it to make weddings less you know less fancy and there's of course a responsibility of the ashim and the wealthy people to live within their means. It's also a responsibility of parents who don't have financial means to be able to give over to their children the the ability to not have what others have to be and yes you have to be creative. I know plenty of mothers in the summer who can't send their kids to camp and they have camp mommy and and if they're creative enough it's challenging. Um but just to say therefore we shouldn't have vacation because there are parents that can't afford it. You could say that about everything then you know >> it's a fair sensitivity. I I'll share something real from my school related. We have pizza lunch once a week on Friday. >> So do we. >> Okay. So pizza lunch is an extra cost. Not everyone can afford it. Most people can. It's not a huge amount of money but if a person has three or four kids, >> right? >> It adds up. >> So there have been people who asked me to expand the hot lunches to Tuesday to Wednesday. Certainly people of means it's hard to make a lunch >> and let the restaurant come. What's the problem? Let the restaurant come. They'll charge seven, eight dollar for lunch, >> and the people who don't have to have it don't have to have it, >> right? >> And I took a stand and I said, you know, we do the Friday, we do the pizza lunch, but I don't want a situation where the wealthier kids are sitting there eating their gisha ravioli or I don't know, whatever they make, >> right? >> And you're sitting with a peanut butter and jelly sandwich. I think that's too much. At the same time, I have people who are upset that we even have pizza >> because that itself is hard for some families and we try to address that, you know, in appropriate way. But it's a balance and I think there is value. It's a valid point at times, >> but we have to find that balance. All right, let's move on to the sec the spotlight question. So, usually we have two questions before the spotlight, but being that we have um three guests joining us >> this episode, we wanted to give them ample time >> and um therefore here we go. >> All right. So, this is exciting. We have uh three kosha manal with us, a lot of experience and perspective to explore the next question. >> Yes. And literally from around the country, Chu. >> Yes. Um, so maybe we'll allow the the principles to introduce themselves. >> Okay, great. >> And now that we're we're being videoed and we're live and we're live. >> Mr. Albiva, tell us your name and what you do and uh where you're from. >> Hi, I'm Richard Albby. I am a retired 37year principal. I was a principal in Yeshiva Torah general studies, Shiva Magen David High School, Shere Torah uh high school and the last nine years in Hebrew Academy of Long Beach. Loved it. >> general studies department. >> I was general studies and coach. I did both the last 20some years. I did kesh and together and now I am consulting around the country for an outfit called first which those out there in the audience will one day hear about. >> Wonderful. >> Amazing. >> Okay. Rab Lavine. >> My name is Rabbi Mendy Lavine. I'm the principal of Yeshiva Day School of Las Vegas obviously in Las Vegas. >> How long have you been there for? >> 14 years. >> And how many kids in the school? >> There's 320 kids in preschool through eight. There's a boys girl boys division and a girls division. So everyone's together. >> And you're the head of school. >> I am. >> Wonderful. >> So me and Reb Lavine have have a history. >> Um went to camp together for a bunch of summers. >> Is that Heler? Where'd you go? >> Camp Heler. Um if you were in you went to campeller if he's in Las Vegas, he's probably either Kabat or so >> or both. >> 320. I think I think that's probably a big surprise. >> Yeah, that's great. >> And how the school has grown? How in the last 10 years? When I came to the school 14 years ago, there were 50 students in the school. Oh >> and commission I hope right and two years ago we just moved on to like a five acre campus like a big $16 million building. So things are baram happening. There's a there's a basak of high school that's not affiliated with us. There's there's the mass of Las Vegas. I have two sons there. There's 60 boys in high school and 40 boys in base measure. >> Is there is there a rv that's the rv of the city in Vegas? >> There there is not. >> There's there mean there are raim obviously they live there but there isn't. So there's a there's a very there's a large Kabad community, but outside the Kabad community, there's Young Israel, which was which is the oldest sh there, and there's two other communities called Summerland and Henderson. They're 30 miles apart. That's like where 80% of our school comes from. >> Okay. So you have people, students that live 30 miles from each other. >> We do. >> Wow. >> We used to be the school was on one side and kids travel 30 miles each. >> Now you're in the middle. >> Yes. That's the number one rule I learned as a principal. Make everyone not happy. So now we're in the middle. Nobody's happy. Do you have any weather events there? Like you don't snow obviously. >> Um it's 120 degrees in July, but we don't have school in July. It rained this week an inch and a half, which is more than it rained the whole 2025. >> That's it. >> Not much weather. >> That's great because I hate that. I hate weather events. The early morning decisions and okay. >> Yeah. My name is Pinasitstein. I am the man of Torah Academy of Minneapolis. been there for the last 13 years. And >> where were you before that? >> I was in Silver Spring, Maryland. I was a rebby for 22 years there. Um I love every day of the week in school. >> How big is the >> We have 350 Kindle from early childhood through uh 8th grade. >> Is the number stable? Is there >> The school it's has been incrementally growing. Great. >> Um when we came 13 years ago, there was 230 children in the school. Now there's 350. >> Wonderful. Mr. Albeby just we missed in the beginning what is Kuk first? >> What is Kuk first? Okay. There are a group of schools in my that developed a curriculum and a set of assessments that go along with it and they pay the rebies to stay after school to prepare. >> This is the deun my rabbi. Yes. Rabbi system. Correct. So they have opened up now they're on their third boy school with one girl school and I've helped develop the curriculum as a side consultant over time but now that they have four schools >> kesh curriculum or >> kesh kesish but they they wanted my secular studies head to help organize a kish curriculum which is genius I think because really we put it in a way that it's replicable and usable everywhere and now that's being used in four schools over there we're spreading it around the country and Robert Garfield's one of our schools >> really so this Okay. >> Hill Shepherd in Baltimore and uh many people have expressed interest in this at this >> it's a very amazing thing. >> I I tried to sell to Rabish but it's giving me problems. I don't know. >> Breast you stole my moss to separate story. >> Yeah. We'll leave that we'll leave that for another discussion. Okay. So I'm going to read a question and we'll uh we'll discuss it. Here we go. The first contact I had from my son's school this year was an email they sent me a week before parent teacher conference saying that my son is struggling and that we need to discuss a plan. And then parenthesis it says aka they want to put him on medication for a diagnosis he doesn't have. There's no way they are going into this meeting with an open mind and that there's no way I'll be able to either. We have many more years ahead of us in the yeshiva. How can I, as a parent, maintain the relationship without giving in on what they insist on? >> Have a thought about that? >> They sent it as an email. >> As I Let's start with that problem. I mean, I'm not going to defend the indefensible. A conversation like that doesn't start with an email. A conversation like that happens after a series of interactions over a period of time where the manala and the rebby and the mora have developed trust with the parent and then maybe you could discuss a series of incidents that may lead you to a conclusion that maybe they should look into something like medication and we are not doctors to prescribe medicine have never taken that position. It's overused. The word ADD is overutilized. We don't appreciate ADD kids at all when really the ADD kids are the most successful people in the world and they're the ones who are going to make the money and support our yeshivas in the future and half the convention of AD sitting here and really really I don't want to get the parent more upset but I'm going to tell you right now I'm on I'm on the parent side >> I'm not throwing the principal on the bus but you don't start out with an email that to me >> so so what advice do you have I mean we we could really unpack that add thing that sounds interesting but let's just sticking on this for a So, what advice do you have for this mother? >> Okay. Well, the first the fact that she's asking the question the way she's asking the question shows that she's a good mother. So, I want to really I don't know who you are out there, but I just want to say let's give a round of applause because she's saying smartly, I'm going to be in the school for the next 8, 10, 12 years. I have to have a relationship with the school. I am really angry about this email, but I can't go in there and shoot the principal for saying such a thing. Right? So, the advice really is is take a deep breath. you know, figure out your position, listen, because you really want to hear why they think that. It's an important as a parent really to get that information. Even if you're going to do nothing, you are under no obligation to agree, but you certainly don't want to start out attacking because once you attack, that's going to put the school in the defensive. Listen, listen, listen. Give suggestions and maybe alternatives of why things may be happening a certain way. have the conversation and express I think care that the school cares about your child enough to bring you to a meeting. I think that's a good idea always to give credit to the andalen because they really do work hard but um she's already starting with on the right track because she's asking the question with a lot of der rebin I I don't know if you remember saying this but at probably two years ago at maybe it was analysis conference I don't think I was at a conference here I think it was a manales conference you discussed something that you put in place in your yeshiva I hope I'm remembering this right that ended the year you you won't say things or suggest things until I'm I'm misremembering a little bit but I >> So you're actually remembering something. So I know it it was at the Stanford the first the first >> Rabbi Garfield Manalmer event in Stanford. I haven't been able to join recently. It's really bad in the schedule for me. It's like the end of school but this year I think I might maybe if there will be one I'll hopefully attend. Um, so I said >> that's one check. >> Many many many parents we'll call them with or many kids that have paras. We like my best meetings we have are meetings after school is over. Okay, after school is over. There's no event. No one got kicked out of class. There's no Rebby pulling his hair out. No one threw any spitballs. And we sit down in June. We sit down in July and we make a plan for the upcoming year. We say these are the things that we've the challenges that we had. They're the best meetings we have. It's not crisis intervention. It's not band-aid. I want the Rebi wants the kid out of class. The parent wants the kid in class. Those are just pressure situations. Everyone's on a time pressure. The parents are on a time pressure. The school's under a time pressure. We need yishaas. As Mr. Alby said, everyone needs to become there's no crisis now. We reflect on the year ahead. But that's >> you mean every parent you mean every parent on the our top 10 our top our frequent flyers we'll call them our top 10 top 10 >> and you don't find that that that just causes parents to say yes they'll yes you along because there's no pressure to do anything because there's no class. >> No so most situations this is a general rule if we talk about it like mentioned and we figure it out and and I think the main words in that uh discussion is open-minded that applies to parents also. So the parents have to come open-minded, the school has to come open-minded. Even though there's histories, it sounds like from that letter, there's a lot of history that we don't know about. Um, but everyone comes open-minded. 95 or higher percent of times we could come to a resolution like mentioned where the school is happy, where the parents are happy, we each have to give a little bit. There's very few situations where you have to literally squeeze their necks to that you need the pressure to make it happen. And those are the very difficult painful decisions that we all have to make as Benal and as principles. But that is the that is the muta de muta. So the less pressure the better. Like let's talk let's figure it out. Let's have another meeting. I'm saying I have nothing to do tomorrow. So like yeah in your school what does parent teacher conferences look like in terms of giving over difficult news and how do you engage parents? >> So I ask all of my teachers to make sure that parent teacher conferences is not their first interaction with a parent. Right. >> I make sure that all the teachers call >> standard class in Yuish >> anywhere from eight children to 23, but my middle school is departmentalized. So they could have 100 students. So that just takes a lot of phone. That's a lot of phone calls. >> Yeah. It it just takes them a little longer to do it. >> But the reality is that I really ask them to be in touch with everybody before conferences, before the emails. It's it's no different than your bank. you need to make deposits in order to make withdrawals and and that's what they have to do. They have to make a deposit and then they can make withdrawals and depending on what the withdrawal is, you got to make more deposits. It's a, you know, it's a simple it's just a simple equation. >> I'm thinking now and I'm going to ask a little vulnerable question to the crowd and since I'm asking it I'm not going to have to answer it. Have you ever been a parent? Think about yourselves not as principles right now. Think of yourselves as parents who have gone into a conference and what you learned or what techniques you brought to like you know make sure you got what you needed done. >> I just had parent teacher conferences on Wednesday the right before I came here. I came right from >> as a parent you didn't get an email before asking. >> So can I just say a really cool anecdote of Colin Epstein said at his father of Zelix Levia is the only thing I remember from the Levia. I live around the I live around the corner from Shar and I tell this to parents all the time. He said he his father was ashiva in Torvadas and he was a student and his mother and his father who was the rashiva of the whole yeshiva when he was a kid went to every single parent teacher conference and he said out his father's made a rosham on him that his parents care and invested in his thing probably scared some of the teachers that he was the rashiva he came every parent teacher carpet so I I go with my wife I go I clear my schedule >> and I go with my wife and I say the truth is nothing but the truth. So help me God because it it does make it a little awkward. I'm going for my own kid. >> You're going for your own kid in your own school. >> Yeah. In my own place. >> Same thing. And now they were for the Rebel was the Rashiva of Toras. He went to every single class. His son was and he went to the classes. >> So what skills? I mean I don't know you know again I don't know if you needed to have any skills but in a situation it's a little more complicated when you are their bos you know you are the manal of that school. But when >> my wife also works in this. >> Okay great. What a party. But when you need to >> what happens when your child is in her class, >> my child will get the don't they don't get any special treatment. If anything, they get the the opposite. >> But when you >> But that's a different podcast about how to treat kids who are in your parents work in the school. And in the out of town community, I would say whatever 12% of I have 15 employees and we have issues about it sometimes and there has to be very clear gdarm how to deal with it. But not with my kids of course. So when you need as a parent to get something done, to get a message across, what skills do you use? Sure, you've all done this. I >> you know, I think it's a very simple thing. You could stand on ceremony or you could have your child or the student in mind. My advice to this parent would be, of course, you know, the school should have communicated in a better way, but if at the end of the day, you want what's best for your child, listen to what they have to say. listen to what they have to say and work it out with them. I I remember when uh someone told me that my child needed to be medicated and it was it was hard. It was really hard to hear, but the person told me, "Do you wear glasses? Do you drive without glasses? These medications are your child's glasses." So, you could stand on ceremony, but hear them out. What What does it hurt to to to you know, it costs money. Sometimes it's covered by insurance, but a neurosych evaluation is empowering. It lets everybody know what it is that's going on. So do it, use it, and come to a good conclusion for your child. >> It must ultimately it might be more challenging. I'm maybe being unfair, but rebim there's a certain reverence and cover naturally given to rebim. And it's also in our circles, it's easier to find a more qualified Rebi than a qualified English teacher. You have parent teachers conferences and you have parents that are speaking to their teachers, their history teacher, their math teacher, their ELA teacher, and you as a principal like, "Oh my gosh." Right? I I you you you like you stand outside the room by parent teachers conferences and you're like, "Oh no, what are they going to say now that I'm going to have to clean up?" Right? Is is that a >> Well, no. Of course, not in your schools cuz you hired the best. All my teachers and all my schools are amazing. Okay, putting that but putting that aside. Um, let's say the newer teachers, right? Okay, who had never done a PTA before, we would pre-conference and just run through what a PTA looks like and how to deal with the tough questions. And I would always say, you're going to have a great night because Rubert Ruba, the parents are great and the kids that you have, Ruba Ruba, are great. And it's only going to be a small percentage of the class that's going to undo you. And you can't let the one or two parents who come in tough make, you know, kill you. You have to just be strong, let it go, and then talk to me about it so I can help you out the next day. Um, but it's a lot of pre-conferencing and it's a lot of post-conferencing. And I always told my teachers, if you ever have a difficult PTA, I need to know about it. If you have a difficult phone call from a parent, I need to know about it. If you have a difficult email from a parent, >> but sometimes they're embarrassed to to tell the principal, oh my gosh, you know what I just said? >> Listen, the one the cuda that goes across all this is trust. There has to be you have to build trust between yourself as a parent and the school and the school has to build trust with you and and I was just going back on the previous thing I said earlier about it's wrong that they did an email. It might also be wrong that the parent waited for PTA to actually engage with the school because if the parent really wants to be involved with their child, go down on a Sunday, go down on a pick up the childhood dismissal at 4:30. Hey, how's my kid doing? Just a like, you know, just let me hear, check in. Like, you know, I was in I I was a How principal for many years. I was in the building the other night and and I saw my grandson and I saw one of his teachers. I know he's having difficulty with, "Hey, what's going on? What's the problem?" He's my grandson. It's not even my own kid, but he's my grandson. How's he doing? Like, be straight with me. Don't wait for the email. Don't wait. Just communicate, communicate, communicate. And similarly with teachers, you have to have a trust with the teachers. And the teachers have to be able to trust you that you have their back. Um, when a PR when a teacher knows that the principal of the Hanala has their back, then they're going to share with you. >> Can I tell you something that I did recently? Uh, and and let me know what they're let me know if this was >> we had a wonderful shot together. I I I didn't put in the res. I didn't, you know, you're supposed to give in a certain who you want to sit with. So, we decided to be like totally we're going to go crazy. We put nobody and see what they do. So, we sat with couple of from Detroit, right? >> From Baltimore, Mr. all to be from the fire. It was an amazing shabas. Um I had few months ago a parent reach out to me at night that one of the grades that the teacher embarrassed her son in front of all the class right the teacher it was it was almost like a cliche the teacher thought the kid did something wrong and the kid didn't it it was a mistake mistaken identity middle school kid so great teacher great kid great parents and she was just letting me know she was really upset that the teacher embarrass my son. Fine. So, I didn't even say anything to the teacher. Teacher kind of knew or not. I don't know. I didn't I called the kid into my office the next day and I said, "Yanke, you ever have a bad day?" And he's like, "Yeah, teachers have bad days, too." Like, I didn't even try to defend her um or him. I said, "Mr. or Mrs. ando, what what she said to you yesterday." He's like, "Yeah, that was totally uncalled for." And he's like, "Yeah, I said she's an amazing teacher." Just had a bad day. She was having a hard moment. And he smiled and I gave him a little fist bump and that was it. Game over. In other words, if if you It was validation. Um I wasn't I wasn't I'm not going The teacher made a mistake again. If it was something horrible, right? That's one thing. Teacher made a mistake. She screamed at the wrong kid. I've screamed at the wrong kid in my house plenty of times. Um but as once the kid and and and I responded to mother's email right away um which I wonder if all man do that but it was um that's you know almost like a chat style response. Yes. Wow that's so sounds so disappointing. I'll deal with it tomorrow. Thank you for letting me know. You know all that. Um and I didn't try to do too much. I didn't tell the kid I would speak to the teacher. I just said yeah she messed up and and he was okay with that. >> What's your question? No, I I guess my question to to to to the the panel is I kind of threw my teacher I don't know I did not support my teacher, right? Your your officially your your your staff is your are yours and here's a kid who I told the kid the teacher messed up. >> You said your teachers are human and that is a very reassuring thing to children. All human when I make a mistake I try to fess up and I own up and I apologize in public. Sometimes I embarrass the kid. I'll come the next day. I'll apologize in public. We're human. There's something called human. There's something called chuva. That's how we were all made. That's uh from the beginning. You don't want teachers. I say you don't want your teacher to be a robot. I promise you. And it's like things happen. You have human. We make mistakes and we're going to learn from this. Everyone's going to learn. >> Let me clarify because what you do is perfect. Okay. Perfect. The right way to handle it. Just like uh Leavine just said, it's you have to have the balance between owning an issue and supporting the teacher. You did both. You owned the issue. The teacher was wrong. You supported the teacher by saying, "Hey, people have a bad day and now let's get back to work." That was perfect. So, I think that's the balance that we as men have to try to >> I wouldn't forget the fist pump afterwards. >> I'm a big fist pumper. I find handshakes to be almost like >> that shows the child that you're on his side too. That's also very important. >> Interesting. Do do you how do you deal with that parent who calls? that parent mo a lot of parents who call and then they'll talk about let's say the rebby right and the rebby is just that was wrong right and now you have to bring the rebi into the conversation who's a sensitive rebby right that that is a you know that's tricky it certainly is but I think the key to any difficult conversation is that the person on the other end has to feel heard so the most important thing is to listen to the parent let them know that you heard them. You have to do the same thing with the rebby. And like I said, both with parents and rabbim and with kids, it's the deposits and the withdrawals. I I I have a rebby who I've made a lot of deposits with. And now I'm able to make withdrawals. So I think it's a very simple thing. Like Rabbi Livian said, nobody is perfect. >> It's all in the presentation. If a rebby feels you have his back, he'll listen to what you say. If a parent feel you feels you you have their back, they'll listen to what you have to say. >> I had a parent recently that was very upset at a consequence I gave their son. Um a pretty severe consequence. I thought he deserved it. And the father called me up and said, "It's the wrong thing to do. You're just going to cause him to not be h happy." And he was expecting such a push back like what are you talking about? And I said to him might be right. >> I said I was your son was challenging story in yeshiva. I almost like I I took all the air out of his out of the balloon because I said I didn't I said I thought in the moment I thought this is what he needed need to be sent home whatever it was you're telling me sending him home was going to push him away from yushkite I said you might be right I don't know I'm just trying and he didn't know what to do with himself cuz usually >> did he make you rescend did he make you rescend or did he insist you >> he he wanted to know could his son come back for again in everyone by us lives not 15 miles right what's everything 15 blocks is mostly yeshiva I let him come back for recess whatever rather was but but but I I said to him you might be right. I we compromised but but he was expecting you know that that manal push back um and I just didn't give it and I think he was so disappointed >> but but but but he allowed you to make your point because he felt hurt >> right >> that's the bottom line >> so what advice a typical scenario and very similar to this is where you have a teacher who's more of a type a personality a teacher is more misunder they've been doing it for a while they have and your child is is more heftick and your family is more chilled and you know bring the test back, sign, you lose five points and all this stuff. So as a parent, if you were giving advice to a parent who needs to advocate for their child, but there's this like personality conflict. >> It's not a should have. It's always sometimes it's not just a should. >> So what what would you advise a parent to do to sort of help their child get through the year? And >> I I hope it would never get to the point where the child will literally not get through the year. >> They're miserable, right? They're miserable. I I could think of And it's and literally that scenario my scenario of both extremes of both sides we have where where and just where the reame and the English teachers are opposites in their personality and you have a kid who I don't understand he loves the English teacher and yet he like what's wrong with right all of that and we don't have parallels so we can't necessarily you know switch classes and they're like oh my gosh it's no it's it's November it's December we have eight months left >> I think you have to find that middle ground has to understand that it can't always be their way and the teacher has to understand the nature of the parents and the child. I think, like I said, the bottom line is if we're all in it for the child, then we will find that middle road. And if you can't find that middle road, whether it's the teacher or the parent, you got to checkmate because everybody's got to make it work. And I come from the same type of school. We have one class and different every rebby, every mo, every parent has a different personality. And I can tell you, you know, one of the hardest things to set up at our school is a remedial schedule because yes, it's not necessarily true that the child who didn't need it last year or needed it last year will need it the following year because so much of it depends on the personality of the teacher. So you've got to find that middle road. You've got to find everybody being on on the same page to help the child. Well, I find if to advise a parent, which I think is what this is about, advising a parent is to try to help the parent understand where the reb is coming from. I think when when people understand where the other side is coming from, then the negotiation becomes a lot easier. When everyone takes their side without hearing the other side, the negotiation's going to go downhill. So, I try to explain, let's say, type a rebby. type A rebby is very demanding and yes he gives a lot of homework and yes he's not too tolerant of of the child missing homework. However, I could tell you from the 10 years that I've worked with Reby X that what he produces at the end of the day will set him up for life fifth grade, sixth grade, seventh grade, eighth grade forever. And so even though it might be difficult to handle at the moment, you might see in the end tremendous results. So try to work with the Rebi. And I give some hints about how this rebby operates. I said, "If you acknowledge that the Rebi is trying to do the job to help your child become the best tom it could ever be, likely if you need some type of accommodation, he'll give it to you. But if you if you go in with the attack, then the reby's going to attack back and it's going to go nowhere." So that's a try to give them that little hint of that. >> It's sad. It's sad to say this. I'm going to say the secret. Most teachers, Rebea, Morris, are missing recognition. And if you're that parent that does recognition, >> yeah, you get everything. It >> it goes very far. >> That's on us. The missing recognition maybe from us, from everyone. >> Yeah. >> It's one of It's one of CVY's habits. Seek to understand and then be understood, right? >> And everybody if everybody does it, it works. >> Are we good? Do you think we're good at this as a Sber? In other words, it used to be definitely not. There was principal, right? And there was the school had their way and there was very little communication. That's what report cards were for and PTA was for. It was ver communication. We're all saying, I hate I hate to be so like Polyiana and PC, but we're all kind of saying the n like I work together and we have to work together and understand and you know you're all from all different parts of of the country, a little bit out of town flavor um in Vegas and and Minneapolis, but do you think parents I will tell you this. I have a friend >> who listens to our podcast and gets very angry at me after every single podcast and he calls me up and I tell and I say to him and I say to him I said just send in a voice record. He says, "Yeah, I can't. I'm too angry." And you guys make believe that everything is great that Manalam are always great and school's always wonderful. It's not true. He's not just to say the other side that Manala make horrible mistakes and that rebar are sometimes really bad and they destroy kids and like so here we are. We're saying this like really I think a very common theme by us. Yes. Here the parents here the Rebi here the teacher is are are we saying forget Arishas I don't know what's asked is this what's is this what's happening? I mean, you're in Vegas. All you know is what happens in Vegas. But I talked to we talked to we talk we have emails. We this we that I'm saying has come a very long way from when I was in school and we had older and old school and uh and we'll leave it at that. And most certainly I mean like we have all have very difficult situations in our school. We have difficult conversations in our school. I guess if we would title this podcast, it would be about difficult conversations, how to have difficult conversations. And I could read you my script that I talk about in and every single practically difficult conversation, all the different words that we used and perspectives and vers and like just understand perspectives. >> But has become much more flexible. Um actually in our school been working on like values. We call them attributes for success. And one of the things for staff members is being flexible. And we made it for students also. The same four things are for staff and for >> what are the four things? >> Four things are being >> What is this? What is this? You have to you have to have them now. You know them all. >> I do have of course I have them. >> Take out his phone and read them. >> Royal baby put my phone over there. Um it's student centered uh flexible passionate and figure it outness. >> Figure it outness. >> It's a word that was created by our English principal >> a little bit. Is that is that a takeoff in flexibility? >> What? It's it's it's cor it's it's it's it's correlated and we use the same things we we're about to introduce them to. We've been working on this with the staff for a year. So now flexible is part of the language of our school and we have a situation like this there there are teachers that'll come to a meeting and say I know I'm not flexible and I know it's a very important value here and like I'm I'm like coming in with a mindset and we're working it for students. So student centered for a student means you have to come like a student and be flexible and passionate. We changed like some of the bullet points but like we brought this into the language of our school. It's been tremendous. >> And you and you don't hear again I don't know the makeup of your yeshiva but does that turn away some of the more could I say elite right? No waiting. It's only taking an hour for that to come up. Some of the more right-wing members, flexible could be a key word for liberal, right? And for like also you'll let more things go, right? Flexible can be translated in many ways. So if you're too flexible, then all of a sudden you lose the core hashkafa of your yeshiva. >> You you you could ask around town about my reputation. You >> touch I touched the point. >> You you went to No, no, no, no. I'm saying >> how you say flexible in Hebrew. What's the what's the >> I have no idea. >> What's the No, but like what's the mida of that >> char? It's not one of the >> vatronis. >> Well, it's a good question. We never thought about it. >> Maybe vronous is a better word than flexible. >> Vronis means I'm I'm >> allowing >> allowing another perspective in whereas flexible means I really have no values. I'm just doing whatever that you want, letting you do whatever you want. Not no offense, but like I know that I don't think that that's what you mean. I don't think by means do whatever you want >> who always complains. I think he's right a little bit. >> Explain. >> What I mean to say is 90% of our schools are working well and you do have probably more than 90%. But you are going to have that person who makes a mistake whether it's a rebby whether it's a ma whether it's a principal and it could be it's true and sometimes you have to fess up and wave the white flag. Sometimes you got to do it but I think for the most part our schools are are going well and our children are learning. Do we think we have that, you know, ability and that and confidence and really the anos to to say I messed up? I love apologizing to meet them. I think it's really I I think it's an amazing thing. I I I embarrass them all time on purpose just like apolog much less. But growing up, I got more confident. >> I think at the end of the day, >> we all make mistakes. >> Comes with age. M I was a young principal working next door to Rabbi Bender and we were a thin door between us and I would be on a phone with a parent getting very defensive as a young I was 27 years old at the time as a young 27year-old would do he after the phone call I hung up he'd open the door out to be are you nuts scream at me get back on the phone and apologize what' you just do oh my god he gave me the training of a lifetime so that everything I am is him just want to say that publicly >> well so the ability but so he would force you to call back the parent. >> Yep. >> That's hard. >> We once had a meeting. I'll never forget this one. We once had a meeting and that and it was a meeting to tell a parent that the child was so special that it need to go as special ed yeshiva. Right. So there I am being and sort of like >> and you're doing that meeting not not Rabbi Bender not the >> I'm doing the meeting with Rabbi Vender but I'm the one presenting the evidence let's say and I'm being very factual and and like you know punching like basically this is wrong and this is wrong and this is wrong and this is wrong and this is wrong and really the only option is to go to another yes shea and the mother walks out crying right takes me says can you excuse me a second takes me the whole way what did you do I said I just told her all the facts no no you don't understand you know hard he said play it back understand what the parent is going through right now and when I had this lesson at a 27 year old it was like for life understand where the parents going from this parent has two other kids also with special needs this is the one kid who maybe can make an irregular she telling her that one can't make an irregular sha either and you're just going fact fact without couching it in a little bit of a you know more understanding method oh So, >> well, >> dang. That's where I learned it. >> Unbelievable. >> You really got a real education over there. >> Totally to under fire. >> It was good. Then you get old and you don't care anymore. People tell you it's fun. >> Can you just go back when you first started? As we get towards the end, I just want to go back. You you made a comment about ADHD and the way it's used. And yeah, can you tell us a little? Yeah, tell us some more about that. That was interesting. >> No. So, first of all, ADA is ADHD is not a disability. Let's start with that. ADHD is actually a something that if a person has ADHD, they're probably more programmed to be successful in life than people without ADHD because they could do more things and if they learn how to channel their ADHD, they can achieve greatness. Okay? So, yes, an ADHD kid in third grade is not going to sit in the classroom like a regular kid could sit in the classroom. Okay? So, let's figure out a ways to channel it. B, why rush to medication? See, not every behavior that looks like ADHD is coming from ADHD. Depression will mask ADHD symptoms. Other things that going home, anxiety, you you don't know. You put a kid who's an anxiety kid on ADHD medication. You mess him up much worse. I've seen >> We had a story like this. I think I shared it last year, but I'll share it again that a mother calls me in the summer balling on the phone. I'm destroying my son. I said, "What happened? My son is ADHD for for four years. He's been medicated and he's been a disaster in yeshiva." and she got him reevaluated and it turns out that he doesn't have ADHD. He has anxiety and if you give a kid with anxiety medication that tells him to super focus, he's hyperfocused on his anxiety and she changed medication changes life. That but that's really a challenging job. >> You think we're overdiagnam's big thing is changing everyone off ADHD medication to anxiety medic. >> That's what Dr. Man was doing. >> Huge. >> So is that what you're saying that we're overdiagnosing rule? I had a rule in my issue and how my last nine years no medication before second grade. Start with that now. >> What doesn't mean you had a rule. What if a >> parent I don't care. We're not medicating a kid before second grade. They're too little. It's not indicated that that such a thing should be. Let's try every other possibility. There are a lot of ways you could skin the cat. You could there are certain type of chairs which allow for more movement. I had a kid who is literally what I did with him. I said to him in the morning, I said, "Uh, what you're going to do in the morning, there's nobody in the building yet. Everybody was in deting. We're going to time you. You're going to run the entire building. Okay, just run." So, I time had him on a clock. So, he could do it. It went from four minutes to three and a half to three minutes. The kid would come back panting. It's a good now go to class. For two hours, he was good. 10:30 would come to recess, go run. And and we got through the year and we didn't medicate him until second grade. He's doing unbelievably well now. I came to visit the other day. Gives me the biggest hug in our heart. So you're talking about medication or ADHD over >> diagnos that was an ADHD kid actually. He really was every in every way symptomatic of ADHD. But I said to my team, "No way we're going to medicate this kid. He's a little kid. It's too early. We're going to get through the year. Let's use every other possible technique." And got through the year. He did pretty well. We medicated him before second grade. The parents appreciated that we delayed until that point. They ran to give them medication. They didn't fight us at all and the kids doing really well. That's how you have to play it. We overmedicate in this business and we're wrong. >> Just ADHD. >> I don't I I don't mind saying this to the public out there. We the man principles, teachers in America over medicate, especially on the word ADHD because that's the cure all to everything. Kids can't sit like this for eight hours a day. Uh he's hyper ADHD medic. Wrong, wrong, wrong. Take the time. Think about it. Yes, there's a point for ADHD medication absolutely at a certain point. But let's not over medicate the whole world. And let's also realize when you put kids on medication very very young. It might lead to other medications that you don't want to hear about later on because we know that that equation happens also. So again, I'm not saying no medication. I'm just saying slow down. Let's get some real diagnosises. You're not a diagnostician. The teacher is not a diagnostician. There are professionals out there who can help us. And like you said before, you can put a kid on ADHD medication and they're really anxiety kids and terrible. I've seen terrible things. >> Okay. Well, this is wonderful. I think we had a really great conversation, explored a lot of things. The bottom line is I think we all agree that it's in the parents best interest to find a way not to, like you said, to stand on ceremony and to, you know, say you didn't you didn't uh contact me, right? Therefore, I'm not interested in working with you for my kid. >> You got to put that aside and find a way to connect. But some remember what she did say. I want to have a relationship with the school for the next eight years. So I don't want to be angry. What do I direct? So give her credit. Direct. >> And the kids. Another thing is on that is the kids pick it up too. Not just how you relate even in your house, how you relate to the school at the dining room table. When you comment, it all affects that child's >> a mom that wants to have a relationship with the school. The kid is that much more likely to be successful. Right. >> 100%. >> Parents should never disagree with the school public. >> Of course not. >> And we'll end with that. Yes, perfect way. Okay. >> Thank you for joining us. >> Thank you for joining us. Thank you for having us. >> All right. Well, that was really wonderful getting to meet the three menalum and talk about some real issues. >> Yeah. And and as we were saying throughout um the discussion, no matter where they live, they could live in the, >> you know, the heat of of Vegas or the cold of Minnesota or the charm of the five towns. Um >> we keep saying this. It almost I almost sound like we're getting I don't know cliche but but the more and more you speak Manalim and Rebeim and people in you're in this much longer than I am but there is so it we're so intentional in our interest in reaching every kid and reaching every parent and finding solutions like this whole all those notions and all those you know stereotypes of manalum and rebim and schools It just I I don't know we spent the shabas with can 1500 people hundreds of manalam um you know there was one manal who told me I still embarrass the kids >> straightam I said wow like like like that but but one one out of 1500 right not bad >> um >> doing a good job is that too sappy >> go get that guy you said about embarrass I'll go talk to him >> talk to him you'll do your thing >> I'll do my thing >> what if the guy wants to reach us how would he reach Oh, well, it's funny you should ask. >> 443-686-9339. You could call in this number and we love the calls we get. That's 4436869339. Or you could send an email to the learning [email protected]. That's the learning curve, one word at mishbah.com. >> Pleasure. >> Always fun, Rabbi. Yeah, it's nice to be together. >> Now we go back to the screen. I'll see you on the screen. All the best. Thank you.