S3 Eps 3. Let's Talk Chutzpah (feat. Rabbi Yechiel Spero)

Why can't you sit there comfortably and listen to adults have some sort of a conversation? Maybe you'll pipe in, maybe you won't. Wh Why are you so uncomfortable with yourself that you can't have a conversation? The people who care about the clinical of their children, are we just giving a device because it seems to be marketed to our community, so we just hand them the device and whatever happens happens. >> There's the kosher lamp, there's the tone cow pills, and then there's the new kosher devices that are amazing. Welcome to the learning curve podcast brought to you by Mishbahaka magazine. >> We're raising children in a changing and challenging world. >> So let's tackle the important issues [music] facing families today. >> I'm Rabbi Rhiel Garfield Manal of Yeshiva Turos in Houston and I love talking about >> I'm Rabbi Ari Shfeld Manal of Shiva Katana Manhattan of Bipra Manhattan director of camp. I also love talking kuk and of course a little bit of fishing. >> Join us as we answer your questions and discuss the topics that matter to parents the most. >> And welcome back to another episode of the learning curve. Season 3 continues. And Rabbi, how are you from Houston, Texas? >> I'm doing great. Wonderful. You know, as we as we said, as we've started this new venture of being videoed and having it wherever all the plethora of platforms that Mishbaka decides to send us, I see that you you have a tree. Okay. A tree. What you have to hear, you have a tree and a globe. That's your >> Yes. I'll tell you why I have the tree. The globe I have less of a good excuse for. When I first became a school counselor, I was a rebby in the morning and school counselor in the afternoon. I invited a therapist who I thought was the best in Atlanta at the time to my office and I asked him he was very into like office setup. It was one of his areas of KMA. So I g asked him for advice and one of the things he says you have to have a live plant in your office. I never did it and nothing to do with the podcast actually. This is before this is in the summer because he felt it like brings life. It brings a sense of energy renewal to the environment. So, I always wanted one and then I got an ad once for a selfwatering because part of the reason is I would never water it. It would die. So, I didn't want to do that. So, then I got an ad for like a selfwatering one. So, I was like, this is way too much information for our poor listeners. But bottom line is apparently it's a stickick that all plants are fine like that. So, I went to Home Depot, I picked it out, I put it here. I love it. I love it. And the globe is just because it was here and I thought, "Oh, that's a good thing to put in there." Well, well, I'm in my office and I'm trying to at least make it presentable. I have the little mini guitar in the background and the coffee and a picture of Armen. I'm trying to at least get away with um of course we're recording this post school hours, which is why I'm in my office still. But all right, onward we go in our um quest to help talk about things that matter. >> So, question one I ask you this week, I'll give the the honor of starting first. You ready? >> Yes. >> Question one. My daughter has been targeted by the same girl in her grade for years. It's been very sly, nothing overt, but this girl is really not nice to her and singles her out all the time. We approach it with Rakmanas. I think the girl has a tough home life and it spills over to her social life. But lisa, I guess the father's writing this. She hurts my daughter's feelings a lot. >> All right, because it said Lamisa. >> Yeah, mothers don't write lisa. >> All right. >> Um, but I'm impressed. The father's writing about his daughter's I'm impressed. So, I think this girl has a tough home life and it spills over to her social life. But Lai says she hurts my daughter's feelings a lot. She just invited the grade this girl to her basitz, which will definitely be the party of the grade. It's a big deal. Should I encourage my daughter to go and be the bigger person or am I putting her through more hardship for nothing? >> You know, unfortunately, this is probably more common than we'd like it to be, especially, you know, with the girls. There's something about those sly nothing overt that seems to be uh the way it's done with the girls. So definitely a very valid question. My nia and you know we don't really prepare so much. So you know I hope this is a wise thing to say. >> Nothing better than a raw Rabbi Garfield. >> But my nia is talk it through with your daughter as an adult would. Meaning what if you were an adult and this was going on. >> Meaning we're assuming this girl obviously is 12. Right. Because it's basa. Okay. >> Right. Exactly. And I think she's old enough, but even a girl who's eight probably you could have this conversation with. But I would say, let's talk it through together, you know, like let's talk about the values. What how would you approach it? I'm just thinking if Raba, let's say you're an adult and you had this, right? There was someone in the community who really isn't so nice to you, but the whole community, the whole block is going, let's say it's you live in a block or the bungalow colony if you need a mush that you can relate to and there they are invited and it's a sim and everyone's going to be there, but you really don't get along with that person. So one, they're not so nice to you, but it's Rakmanas. It's like how would you deal with it as an adult you know? So you should know what's impressive about this question is at least the the understanding of the family that this girl is a rakus tough home life that is that gives a huge upper hand to be able to at least be and accept someone who's misbehaving and mistreating you if you look at them as a ramanus and someone who's really struggling and it's not you know it's not done I mean it's you look at them w with ramanas So it becomes a lot easier to be matter and to be the bigger person if the person that you're dealing with is not someone that you view as I know a threat or an equal but as someone that needs. So I I think that the question itself is half the answer. If now there's a big if the father says we approach a father very not nice of me but the father says for the record I have no I don't agree with that. I never said that but continue please has your wife ever written the word lameisa in her life. >> I don't know. I'd have to I'll ask her. >> My wife has I don't think Yeah, I don't think my wife has lameisa. Anyway, go back to your >> anyways. If the father or the parents um understanding assessment of the situation is the truth of the way their own daughter which is maybe part of the speaking through if my daughter also appreciates that this girl is whatever nebah is going through a her divorce and it becomes so much easier to tolerate it and be the bigger person than it does if you're concerned if your daughter's concerned that really maybe I'm just not cool and she's mean to me being mean to me because we're in a turf battle over who's the most popular kid in the class and you know yada yada it becomes a lot easier and as you said discuss it with your daughter but I I if if this scenario is the truth I would be much more open to telling my daughter you going there isn't so painful for you I'm not going to describe her pain but it should be something that you can tolerate because of the fact that we know that y is is you know someone that really is hurting you know you know hurt people hurt people right as the saying goes and I think if that's the scenario your daughter's 12 you're right and maybe if she was seven or eight it would be harder still possible but if your daughter's 12 I think she should either rabba I think nothing makes you feel more secure and more safe than being able to go to this girl's party which means this girl doesn't really control me in that sense and that yes she's mean to me and yes she's s I'm going to go just to show that that I'm the bigger person and which will allow me I think to deal with it better in the future. Does that make sense? >> There is one one pratt that I want to mention before we go on. Just a cautionary pratt which is it's really dangerous to force your kids to be move. Meaning you know when you get into like you better go you should have a friend over who's you know not so cool or whatever like when you force your kids to be balassed that is not necessarily the best way to help them be balassed. It's more by you you modeling balas and talking about opportunities. But if you like force them, you're like you better go to that basis and it could be really detrimental. >> 100%. And I think as you said, this is an opportunity to create a scenario of vtor in a way which is not unfair to your daughter to tell your daughter when a person is just beating them up and they're losing out so much by it. Very easy for you to say, right? But this is a case of Vita where I think you could paint the narrative that it's doable without knowing any of the details of the story other than the fact that it's a father that wrote the email. >> Okay. >> Right. >> Okay. So, here's the next question. As a rabbi of a wonderful kila, I have been troubled recently by some of the kosher entertainment making its way into our homes. It seems to me that once we have deemed something quote unquote Jewish, we forget to inspect it closer and make sure that it has Jewish Tom. Why are we promoting singers as role models and not our gadolm? Our contest with idealizing Jewish kids and judges the best thing for our children. It's interesting you use the word idol. Is giving our children devices that allow them to stay in their rooms and watch music videos all day. The best thing for them? We are an amadesh. Let's keep it that way. This is like a question statement. [laughter] >> This was definitely a topic of this Rob Shabasha. Um, now I don't know this Rob. I didn't get this message. Do you know it doesn't I don't know if it matters. Are you aware of who this person is? Are you aware who this person is? You are aware. Okay, good. Don't tell me cuz I'm about to be very upset at this r. All I can tell you is that this question really really bothers me and and as someone who who I I listen I I I'm glad to say the C word. Yeah, it's it's we're getting there. as someone who runs a camp and therefore has concerts in camp. [laughter] >> Okay, that joke. It was a such a season two joke. Um, and has concerts in camp and has had campers that have been in contests, right? And all of the above. I find these type of of questions to be irritating and I'm trying to be kind. What's your problem? Yes. Our are I I will tell you this. I never met a kid that went off to Derek and Joe Nukem is a wonderful person. I love him. because he idolized Joey Nukem or Benny Friedman or Jakovki. Jewish music is obviously wonderful. You know, the new MP3s that are out and the new devices that are out that obviate the need for us to have Spotify and Apple podcast and Apple Music are incredible to me. To me, they're the part of there's the kosher lamp, there's the cow pills, and then there's the new kosher devices that are amazing. They take away the typho music. Yes. You want to know is everything perfect on these on all of these devices? No. music videos. So don't let your kid watch the music videos. Let your kid get a device doesn't have videos. But like the fact that Arav has passion for this issue which I think is such a ra for cli big picture reminds me of an amazing line I once heard from abselic epste which in the 1980s they came to and they wanted him to sign on some kyra asser televisions and abselic's line was cli's I'm gonna I'm quoting so I can say it cli's pants are falling down and you're trying to fix its tie like this. If you're a RV and you're in charge of a Kahila and you're in charge of this is what bothers you. The fact that yes, there are certain songs on certain devices, certain singers that really are too rappy and too gayish. I also don't love all the music. So, you know what? I tell my kids not to listen to that part and and I turn off the video angles. My kids don't watch the videos and a certain age. I don't get it for them. But overall, every we all love music. We all pay for every yeshiva has a singer at their at their dinner. Shouldn't say every, but the big yeshivas do. Like, what's your problem? Yes, it's not perfect. And there are certain devices that have certain singers that you don't love. So, don't listen to them. So, convince your kids to listen to cats more often. I I can't believe that Arv reached out to you and this is something that's bothering him. >> You know, I will tell you this before you push back. I never met someone eye roll me. Don't eye roll me where people can see us. We're on video. I'm warming up. You don't know what's coming. Rabbi Jeal, you better put on your seat belt. >> I I never met a kid that went off the derek because he listened to the wrong type of Jewish singers. But we all know of kids that go off the derek, unfortunately, because their parents didn't let them listen to this music or didn't let them like l up. What? What? >> Okay, go. Now you can roll. >> You sound like the guy who goes through a stop sign on his way to Minion. He gets pulled over by the cops >> and is giving a ticket and he says, "You know, there are murderers in the street and you're pulling me over. They're murderers. There are people robbing banks and I just went through a stop sign. What are you wasting your time?" And they sincerely get angry at the cop because they don't. >> Nah, there no such person. >> Yeah, >> that's a fake story. >> That's a fake story >> in there with people. Come on. It's standard practice. You They're murderers and they Okay, we'll let the listeners. They're listening. They know if it's true or not, but they we all know it's true. And what I say to you is, okay, you're right. It isn't equal to the biggest issues facing KL Israel, but in our homes is a pretty important as the host of the premier podcast on I would say in our homes >> as the co-host. Pardon me. Well, the host of >> unless you're referring to unless you're referring to the other >> what's it called? >> I am referring to today podcast. The best podcast arguably the best or second best podcast. But I think either way I have it covered because I'm the host of both. So as the person who thinks about kanuk and cares about kanuk, I don't want anyone to tell me that it's not an important issue that we shouldn't take the time to figure out if what's going on in our home is appropriate because there are bigger issues. With all due respect, I don't know statement. I'm not here to speak to what he was saying. He was actually talking about a different Indian than this. So we're not going to be madame laver. But I would say that does not resonate me as a legitimate point at all. Now let's talk about the issue itself because that's just whether we should talk about the issue but since it was a question we're talking about the issue so I'll talk about the issue all the things you mentioned I think you said I wrote it down by miss the kosher lamp the kosher pills the kosher something else pill you know what they do have if you look at the kosher lamp it says on the back approved by a rabbi and if you look at the kosher pills film it says on it if it's kosher and approved by a rabbi this standard. >> I was using those as Michelle. >> It was a perfect It was a perfect mushel. Okay. It was a perfect mush. Well done. And the reason is because every media that we bring into our homes, everything we expect certainly media like newspapers, they all have our bananim, they all have mashkim. And the reason they have that is because when you bring something in your home, you want to make sure that it reflects your values. Now, within Jewish music, within Jewish music and within media, Jewish media, it's not really any music anymore. It's podcasts, it's videos, it's shorts, it's all sorts of things. So, within the greater Jewish world, there are things that we're comfortable with and things we're not. And I rely on the person promoting this in my newspaper in my world and saying this is for you to have a standard that reflects my standards. And I think it's fair for to ask who's doing that pedika who's taking responsibility for that and that's a fair question. Yes, of course there but there are standards that are understood by all and then there is dakastic for example right every camp every single camp has concerts and of course there is a basic standard that these without saying names these devices have of started with raonim they were all started with very now to start being dastistic and to start saying I don't like that music and you could watch music videos. I don't again I'm trying to to avoid saying names for different types of devices. There are devices with videos and devices without videos. But by and large the big picture of this is if you don't see I'll say it this way. If you don't see with rabinicic supervision which they have and they started with all of them started with and all of them continue to have. If you don't see the incredible advantage that these new kosher MP3s have over not having them then you're nuts. then you're stuck in in in a different reality. If you don't realize that the alternative is not why can we just buy go to the store and buy a tape and give it to my kid and so I'll go buy and I look at each tape. That's not the reality of today. And if you don't see the net the net positive the not just net positive the cal kosher lamp level net positive of these devices with oversight but but the oversight on of the thousands of millions of songs. So that to have a real oversight like like you know a bode lettuce that's where the parents come in but if you don't understand as a rub the beauty of the fact that kids today will grow up having zero tyo or need for Apple music for Spotify which say what you want unless you live in really extreme circles in which you were still getting CD players that is what everyone had in their house. It was Amazon Music, it was Spotify, and it was Apple Music because that was the only way to get Jewish music. So, this is incredible for the Jewish world. Now, the fact that yes, we we there are there idolizing of Jewish singers now that maybe happened too much. Breaking news, all the dinners when they bring a singer in, they don't bring a singer that no one ever heard of, right? So, all the yeshivas are doing it. every is doing it because we get a kick and we really enjoy the the Yakov Schwekis of the world and the Benny Freeman's of the world and if you think that your kid is not going to learn nights because he's going to get too into I don't know the Jewish music world then then you probably have something wrong with your nights program in yeshiva if we take away this device we're causing kids to be angry and to go to other areas these devices are incredible yes are there songs on all of these devices that I don't of of course um and and there are songs if my kid puts them on I said do me a favor that's not Jewish music turn it off yes is there a basic as you said is there are there are tremendously that have signed on before this was started that's a good thing yes but like if you're a rabbi you're getting up in sh and you're like you know it bothers me the and the MP3 players of today are playing music you're just you just don't have the pulse on what's on what's good for kids today >> okay this rabbi is not saying that he's not saying that Okay, I'm just going to be clear in defense of this man. He's just saying that >> it's not my brother-in-law, is it? Who's a Robin Houston? Awkward. >> It's not. It's just saying, are we having healthy conversations around this new thing that's sort of become >> who's we >> who's we who's we having the people who care about the clinical of their children. Are we just giving a device because it seems to be marketed to our community? So, we just hand them the device and whatever happens happens. I tell all my parents to get these devices for your kids for Khaneka because I think it's unbelievable because I think it >> Well, how about this factor? How about first of all, you agree that there's some music on them that you wouldn't want to listen to. >> No, but that's not healthy for them to listen to. It's it's mimicking Gisha culture in a way that's it's not something people might want their kids and they don't realize. I think this is what the person is bringing up and I agree with this. They might not realize that when they give a child a device, they might not realize that it does require continued Ashkaha from them. And it's not so simple. And there's another element to it as well, which we didn't even talk about yet. I wonder if you could acknowledge this area of challenge. And no one's saying that it's better than Apple or whatever, worse than Apple. That's not the point. We're just looking at it for what it is and seeing if it could be better, which is when you give your child a handheld personal device and there's no supervision in terms of the time or what they're doing. Then what they do is they become very inner. I remember when the iPod first came out. You remember the smooen iPad? Why is it called I? Because it's alone. You're only focusing on yourself. Do you remember that? >> Yes. >> Okay. Yes. It should be called an I something because it's vit. >> It's a CD player. Kids are >> It's a CD player. What are you talking about? >> But it's a very attractive, very engaging. It's meant to pull you into it with the music and kids could end up using it in an unhealthy way. >> It's a CD player. A CD player could only play one CD at a time. >> It's an unlimited CD player. That's what it is. Right. >> So what what comes with that is >> don't get the kids the music video capable one. Then if you don't I don't have my kids don't have the video capable one >> but even the non video capable one has certain types of Torah classes and has story it has content and it's meant to engage you as much as it can they get more money for the more hours that you listen to it because they get the royalties every bothers don't buy it for your kid so don't buy it for your kid if you don't like it >> you just said that you encourage all your kids to buy >> I do yes I think it's awesome the great Mik Rabbi Ari Shfeld there you go now in the ways Tyra, aren't you concerned that when you give a child a device that's made to engage them in consistent media that they might use it, overuse it in ways that are not? >> Yes, 100%. >> Okay. >> Which is why love I think is saying I hear you. I think that first of all, when you give the message by the uh the device for your kids, I hope you say that. Just saying. I hope you say and remember because I'm sure you don't, but I hope you do. And also I also suspect that many of the parents listening to this and please let us know if you agree or disagree. I'd love to hear. >> Well, none of the parents even know what we're talking about which devices. So therefore it's hard for them to respond. >> Those of you who have bought your children personal entertainment devices that they could carry around, you know, do you feel they're using them more than you thought they would when you bought it? And I suspect that the answer is for most of our parents, yeah, they use it a lot. >> We could disagree. >> I think it's great. I think it's absolutely great. >> I'm just I'm saying >> I think it's great. I think it's great for kids. I think I think by and large I think by and large now kids know all the Jewish music. Yes. You have to weed out all the ridiculous stuff. The kids know all the Jewish music and the girls have the girl setting and now they know finally they have access to girl singers and they can have uh their sing. They have their kind. I think this is nothing. >> I'm not saying it's bad. It's not black or white. >> I'm not saying I'm saying it's great. >> I'm saying it's great. >> I'm saying it has greatness to it, but it needs us to be aware. troubled. The rub said he's troubled by these devices making >> because he sees it being used and not being filtered carefully and that people assume that it's kosher and therefore it's all good and there are things about it that require us as parents and as a community to be cautious. I I have one more question for you before we move on from this very exciting topic. You said how much how excited you are that the >> Yes, I do have two songs. Yes, I do have two songs of myself on these platforms. Are you serious? You >> put an Irish info that will come up. Yeah. Hate and Tata. Two songs. Continue. I do get royalties and sung them. >> Yeah, I do get royal royalties. Danny Gross produced it. But Donnie Gross produced it before he was Donnie Gross. So I make like one half of a penny per play. So on it's on like loop. I have a bot that has it on playing it on loop. >> Okay. But going back to that, so you said that it's I don't want to put words in your mouth. So, but your comment about that it's good that they are proud of the singers or know the singers that that's like a milo. So, I just wonder I want to ask you this question. >> Why did I say >> I don't remember exactly but you don't have a problem with part of the question was the idealization of >> I don't have a problem with I don't have a problem with that when a a Jewish singer walks into a bar mitzvah all the kids go crazy. No. >> This is what I wanted to ask you about that. Would you have a problem if they, you know, those who promote this started to make posters for the kids' rooms that they should put in their room a picture of a singer? >> You know what's you know what's funny? I never heard of such a poster. How's that? >> I know. I'm asking you. >> No, but that's the whole point. That's the whole point. >> Like do me a favor and for our listeners enjoyment, as a favor to me and the thousands of listeners, answer my question. Would you find that objectionable? >> I would find it very very odd. >> But not objection. >> I would have to figure out why. I I I can't relate to it. And my point is I don't think >> they make sports players posters, don't they? >> Yes, they do. Thank you for bringing the exact right posters, don't they? >> Thank you. Yes, perfectly said. >> So, there is something about a star or a famous person having a poster. So, would you have a problem? Would you find it objectionable? Simple question. If you could please answer, I would appreciate it. >> With a production of Jewish singers posters being put on the walls of our children's rooms, would you have a problem with that? >> Yes. >> Why? because we aspire to >> Okay. So, you agree that there's a limit even though you're happy that when this turn now it's my turn to get excited. >> Yes. >> Would you say just curious I've been in class when Raakio walks in or God walks in. Yeah. >> And I've been in class when a great singer walks in. Y >> would you be upset or would you find it a problematic if the excitement level goes >> it's 10 times 10fold when a star singer walks in 10fold >> right is that how do you feel about that >> I do I wish it was a different way yes it doesn't bother me one drop cuz they're are little kids and these are exciting to them >> kids they're buck what are you talking about they're 20 >> year old 20 >> married to people like that yeah that that's that has nothing to do with >> they're not to do that has nothing to do with devices that has to do with Going back to this other aspect of the question which is the greater cultural focus on idealizing which is the lush from the >> but it's a fake idea the point it's a fake idolizing it's exactly my point because you're right >> posters and going when the guy >> because it just is because they don't aspire to be them I had I will tell you I had the singer you ever heard of him watch this no okay fine I had the singer big Israeli singer breast of a singer come to my camp this year surprise Shabbasmu 2 in the morning it was filled right he when he walked into the dining room these are mifa guys great guys it was almost like laavil elvis walked in the building that's how he was treated and why didn't it bother me I from Aquil walked in it would hopefully be 90% that but not that this is part of the stick and the gashmack there's a certain outlet and a but hagua the fact that no one has on their a poster on their wall and they all have mallean pictures on their wall like this is this is not it's just not an issue is I have one important word to say to you >> they don't have pictures yet >> but what these devices are doing the level of idealization of musicians today is much when we were growing up Morab and David was larger than life oh my gosh >> it wasn't like it is today because of social media because of the amount of media because of these very devices the whole industry is a whole different place. I don't know of bach about this. I don't this like let's talk bit like let's talk real there are bahim. Yeah. So they idolize Benny Freeman. Very nice Joey Nukem. There are Baham that are you think are what are not picking learning are not learning second sader because they rather be a singer and they look up because Benny Freeman says bad hashkuffus and I don't want to pick on anyone where it's you're this is like what's the point? What's your point? >> Okay. These are these are >> I don't think I don't think it at all touches the real drive the hashkuffic drive of our Abraim. I think Abraham's hashkafas are beautiful and the fact that they get a very taken by a Jewish celebrity I don't think I think is is not it's just not something that that I that >> so so listen I'm not here to I I don't want to uh what's the word I don't want to lecture you okay so >> you are really you're trying not to but you kind of >> right I'm trying not to but I will say this to to I am I am using this to lecture in the sense that I think everything we do in really makes a difference and I think even small things from a child what a child sees when they're young, what they hear when they're young, even a baby we take seriously. That's the hashkuff at least for my yes is yeshiva and my worldview and therefore I think it makes a difference. I don't know exactly how, but I think if they're idealizing the wrong things and we're giving them exposure to the wrong music and they're using these devices in ways that sa coal of all of it is a roy forim who care about the dhaka messages to stop and be concerned about >> and I think yes and just to tie it up with a bow and I think anyone that their summation of this new um MP3 player type devices is that oh my gosh it's just bad because it makes the kids uh idealize the singers and it causes the kids to be more and doesn't realize the net extreme net positive that our kids are now have access to the learning curve and that our kids now are listening whether it's to shurim that and they don't have to listen to anything goes of course they have you have to still filter it as parents but they don't see the extreme positive of this new just sim that comes from music and learning new songs and getting a schmuck then I think I think you're in the wrong business >> but I would just put in My last word before that is that I don't think anyone's saying that we should get rid of them, that they're net evil, that but I think the message that I'd like to say is that don't think because it's being marketed to our community that you could just take it and assume it's all good. That's all. It needs as much engagement and and thought as ever. >> I don't know. How's that? >> You're busted. >> We definitely need some kind of poll >> coming up next week. Coming up next week, letter from above. These basketball leagues and and football leagues are gush. We should really ask them, right? Trophies, right? >> Well, I said in Lakewood and [clears throat] leave you with that last word. >> Sorry. Garfield. Now we can move on to the big question of the week, the spotlight question. And um we have a special guest to discuss it. So here it goes. I would never speak to my parents the way my kids speak to me. It feels like when we were kids being was a hard line that you could not cross. And now it feels like there's no gdarim and no respect for authority. My kids see it at school, at their friends houses, on the bus. No matter how much respect I model, the norm has changed. So in today's day and age, how can I raise respectful kids? And how should I deal with? A question I think that we can all relate to in um some fashion. And we have the coven of being joined today to discuss this by Rabil Spiro who really it's probably we all have Rab Spirro in our homes one way or the other a book um you know I have maybe some pictures whenever Spiro was head counselor in Camp Manover where all great mashp begin their career as head counselors spiro is also Mashpia in TA in Baltimore a very and therefore deals with this sugia >> thank you so much for having me good friends for a long time. And um you I was wondering when you said to me you wanted me to speak about or you want to interview me about I'm like did you look through the great mim who were also great Mikafim back in the day and hey that's >> you're the first name that comes up in that book. So we thought you'd be >> when they were young. What do you mean when they were young volume six? >> When they were young. Yeah. But I I really got to make that would really be making it. Can you imagine? I should like submit my children's pictures to you like hinting, hey, maybe I can make volume number 16 >> when we current day. >> Tell us spear before you uh before you address the question just like a little more about who you are. Everyone knows you're an author, but in I don't know if people know as much about your prowess as a classroom teacher, etc. So tell us quickly like I know you were a Rebi for many years. How did you get into and then like tell us about your basic career as a muk? >> Okay, I could talk for hours. I love love um I love what I do. I love how I got here. I was a rebi for 28 years in the classroom. First in the Torah school of greater Washington under Rabbi Yitsuk Charer Schlita an unbelievable mechan. And then two years later, I moved down the road from Silver Spring to Baltimore, Maryland, where I've been a Rebby and TA for the last 26 or 27 years. Could be a little more. I'm not sure. We have Mik exactly when I came, but I think I've been in a classroom come out 30 years. In Torah school, I taught fourth grade girls, fifth and sixth grade boys. I'll tell you something. The girls that I taught a hush of [snorts] a girl, right? They were hush like men. But yeah, it was my first foray into when I was first offered a job, fifth and sixth grade rebate teacher in the afternoon. Let's just say that Mo Spiro is not quite um the career that I thought I would be best at. I happened to have loved teaching those classes. They were very uh incredible girls, incredible families, incredible opportunities. But I moved down to Baltimore and I started to be an eighth grade rebby. Ibidavka chose eighth grade or I hoped I could be eighth grade because eighth grade is a year that you can really impact a child's life forever and ever. You're involved in his yeshiva process. There have been times I was offered other uh grades. I was offered ninth grade and Ika didn't want that. That was long long ago and I I fell into eighth grade and I loved it and I do love it and I now last two and a half years or two two years and change I am the mashp in TA in yeshiva and um can I know there's 11,200 children and my class has gone from 18 or 20 to about 300 almost came out in the middle school. >> What's the difference between a mashpia and a mash? >> What's the difference? The mashia mashia comes from is a is an influencer. Mashia is from the word shipua. It's an incline. >> So like you wear certain clothing and that causes that like that type of influencer. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I whatever I do or say or am has some sort of an influence on the children. But the point is that I once asked Rebi, what do I do? And he says, we teach Tyra, you teach Yiddish. I think that's a good way of saying it. I go into every class every week and I try to inspire them, do my best and give them a bolt of energy and juice and try to give a little spirit and spunk where it might be needed. In the meantime, I have an opportunity to develop a shus with many of the boys. >> Are you part of the high school also on TA? >> I do ninth grade and this year I'm doing 10th grade also. Yeah, I have a lot of talid in the high school are my old talid. So that's also a wonderful opportunity. I dabble a little bit in elementary. I speak sometimes about the things in elementary but mostly it's the bulk of the job the main part of the job is middle school and then I do tilad for the nth grade and 10th grade. >> So so Rab as someone who who has had a career of of young teenagers. Have you seen I know you're you're seeing the Baltimore segment. So we're going to leave we're not going to make fun of Baltimore on this podcast especially since we all of us here have extreme Baltimore connection. >> Yeah. Since you're from Payic. Yeah. Go ahead and go ahead. >> So have you seen a shift a change in a the level of or the way in which we have to tolerate or how different we have to talk to a kid today. Have you seen a change in the last two decades? >> Okay. So first of all I want to I just want to mention one thing. I'm also I've been a lifelong camp guy. I've been in in camps for mamish 40 years. First as a camper then counselor. But it's I started camp I was seven eight years old. Camp Toronto. Then I did Camp Cultterra as a camper, Camp Cultterra as a counselor. And then I was in Manavu for a very long time. I did a pit stop in Midwest and Ray for a year each. But Manavu for 20 years and Colra now again as a headstaff member for the last 12 13 years. Now I want to tell you something. It the relationship with kids in camp where the ages are generally from about 11 now to miss the top side about 17. So it's a whole different but I'm just going to talk in general. First of all I want to tell you something. My kids I think I might have said this when I was in Houston but my kids asked me they can we get a new computer. I said new computer. I'm an Apple guy by the way. So I said get a new computer that's why don't we just download the new operating system. And I called up and they said no sir that's an that's from the old generation. I said well how often does a generation change? said about every two years is a new generation. And it got me thinking when we were kids growing up, a generation was 20 years. A generation now is two years. Every single two years, three years is a new generation of children. And and we have to adapt and they have to adapt. It's a whole new world out there. It's a world of But I want to talk about for a moment. And what I'm going to say is a steer. It's a complete contradiction. Cannot be tolerated on any level. It's a breakdown in all relationships. And yet azus is not always bad. Is not bad. I'm going to loosely translate as aus. We clap alus. Person wears azus on his forehead. Azus ponim the brazen. And that's an in yourrface type of but you have to be brazen like a leopard and just point out that of those four animals that the Mishna instructs us to be like is the first and as can means brazen as a leopard. A leopard's not the strongest animal. A leopard's not necessarily the most feared animal. But a leopard is courageous. It jumps into things sometimes bigger than where they should be and then he has to be tempered. He has to be put back. Azus comes from the word o strength. Buaz was in him was strength. Where does somebody get the on the last day of his life? last day of his life. He goes and marries a guid and all the yentas in town are going to say did you hear is what's going on could have packed it in. He could was the last day of his life. He got up from shiva from his wife had lost all of his children. He was on from he lost all of his children made for them. He lost all his children. He had nothing. He had the courage and the brazeness to say, "No, I'm going to go one more time. One more day on earth. One more time for me." It was last day of his life. One more time, I'm going to try to make a difference to be something. Now, when Azus manifests itself as in-your-face type of it can't be tolerated, but it's you already lost the fight when you're there. the you can't have a conversation. the you need to stop and say what you're I it's not tolerated and I'm not we're not going to accept the behavior and then you deescalate because if a kid's fighting he's going to say things he doesn't want to say you're going to say things you don't want to say and before you know it something that really could have been dealt with in a much smarter way more patient way becomes this whole big brewhaha right it becomes something that's so it's so big it's exploded it was nothing it was nothing because the kid nobody wants to be levitan who's a just a giant of a person he once asked me about he was talking about and he asked him about a kid and he said what's bugging him what's bugging him got to find out why is the kid being a a Kid walks in after school and he starts snapping at his mother. He's not upset at his mother. He's bringing in the baggage from school. What h what happened? What happened? What is everything okay? And it's not sometimes you just need to let a kid cool off it. Again, it can't be tolerated because no one's at the best of their behavior. It's a terrible situation. Why their kid? And it's cannot impossible that a kid can't be cured frombah with enough understanding and enough deescalation enough warmth and love. And I'm not talking about just the warm and love and it can't be tolerated. He has to know there's no tolerance for can't talk to your parents. You can't talk to your to your English teachers. You can't be to anybody. You try that in work. You're going to get fired, right? You can't. So I think you got to deescalate. That's first. What are your thoughts about the initial question if the generations have changed? Are would you agree that kids are moreic more austic maybe with it or not or less or how is the world influenced that? >> I'm I I'm thinking back certainly in camp but even in school for sure 30 years ago kids there was some real good but what I mean as a kid we didn't have I mean I think that kids certainly get less attention at home. They have a less of a way to talk things through. They don't know how to communicate better. The problem with really begins where the kid has so much boiled up inside of him and he doesn't know how to express himself and he doesn't know how to express himself. You know years ago Dr. Pelowitz came and he gave a talk on drinking and that's for another schmoo. But the problem with drinking is the drinking is a manifestation of the problem. The problem is they don't know how to communicate. They don't know how to express themselves. They come to I want to get into it. Why can't you get into it without getting stone drunk? >> Right? >> The question is why can't you express your emotions? Why can't you why are you not comfortable with yourself? You come to Zucker. Why can't you sit there comfortably and listen to adults have some sort of a conversation? Maybe you'll pipe in, maybe you won't. Wh why are you so uncomfortable with yourself that you can't have a conversation? And when we are able to help kids communicate and help kids work through whatever it is they're working through, then we can help their Could I try to be a little bit contrarian because and and and ask the following question and that is you know it's almost part of our almost I think the following two concepts number one that concept and therefore a 30 years ago was much less and number two that can happen before mashia is going to be y why and therefore it almost must be that we're more today because now I don't mean to get into you know the ram doesn't mention this first of all there's there are gamar that talk about it right it's it's not and it's definitely quoted by many many you know mashim but but to me is it is Obvious that 20 years ago there was less >> you saying before JFK took off his hat. >> Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. Or >> well did you go to baseball games without a hat? I tell kids that. Not that you didn't go in the world baseball game with >> That's >> right. Women went nowhere without covering their hair. >> Yeah. >> [ __ ] >> No. So my question is it possible that what we view today as kids being more less respectful of adults and we never would have enough having such a conversation with our parents. Is it maybe not that kids today are more that there is a better understanding today of mental health of kids emotional of learning how to meet a kid by aeram as opposed to just have a patriarchal relationship and maybe what we look at today's world as much worse than 20 years ago. Is it crazy to say that there's at least the ka of that is healthier than 20 years ago? I you know we say we're far advanced in mental mental health. I'm not sure. Maybe not. I don't know. We're better with terms and identifying things. And you know I I don't know if we're necessarily better. I mean you know we always talk about how our generation is is better about certain things. I think the last generation was so less complicated about certain things that may certain things should be brushed under the rug and certain things don't have to be addressed and not everything has to be spelled out to a kid and there's a little bit more model behavior that happened in previous generations that doesn't happen with us. I never in my life woke up in the morning and my father was still sleeping. Never in my entire life. You know you we saw certain behaviors and we understood we saw the way our parents dealt with their parents. You did not you know can but you know I my my grandmothers are gone. My grandfathers come out I never knew and one died 10 years before I was or five years before I was born the other died 5 years after I was born. I don't really remember any conversation with that one. But with my grandmothers, I was close. It they're gone 25 to 30 years, 25 years. One of them, their phone number is 9325253. The other one was 3215563. You never that again haven't called their number in 25, 30 years. I can't tell you my daughter's number. I cannot tell you my daughter's number. I know I pressed their name and Yeah, but favorite daughter, right? Everyone's a favorite, but you we did not go anywhere without and sh before Shabas without calling Bobby. Did you call Bobby? We did. We walked them home after the meal was understood. It was be 1:00 in the morning on a by a pes. Everybody walked them home. I'm not saying we didn't pinch each other under the under the table. Who has to go? But there was certain formalities and certain respect that we had that I don't I I don't necessarily think this generation has. But that being said, um is a necessary component for Msiah to arrive because we live in a world of so yeahbah needs to be prevalent. But if we can channel that, this is one last thing I want to say. Channel the don't tell the kid it's terrible to be inv it's terrible not to know how to use your comes from a certain >> like use it to the substitute for example that's what you would say >> yes exactly you know when a kid is an action he's stubborn I mean how's he going to remain a bent in this world without being stubborn better be stubborn and that action can bring him to greatness the can become courage courage we need to tell. Imagine if a kid's audit down, cool down and then we'll talk in an hour. An hour you call them back to your office or you moves with them and you say, "Listen, I want to tell you something. I admire your courage and I admire how you're so forward and you have real, but the way you use them, can we both agree that's not the way to go?" No, it needs to be shut up. >> Would your father ever say that to you? Would your father ever say that to you? I don't think I was ever to my father. Not because my father was never confrontational with me ever. My father has a Galiga line when it comes to but just to be clear my father the greatest Mak I know he's a professor of accounting in Cleveland state for many years. He retired many years ago. He's very very beloved by everybody by certainly by me. And my father used to say he was chairman of the board of Teloshiva for many years and his father helped build the yeshiva. My father would uh come to yeshiva. There were times my father came to yeshiva and he would bring us this is beautiful. He would bring us he would come to pick up our laundry. We lived in Cleveland Heights and yeshiva was in in in Wikliffe. It's a 20-minute drive, 25-minute drive. On the way he would stop off, pick up the day old's antimins that he would bring to us and he would always bring those. And I'm not sure everybody else did allow colam, but they loved our and then he picked up our laundry and he would peek in the basement from afar. And there was many times when he left without saying hello. He he used to call it benevolent neglect where you're loving your children. You are not necessarily telling them that every moment, but he would just watch. He he watched us and you could tell and he would and I remember like I would speak I have a lot of Cleveland because as a 17-year-old I would come and then wasaldic with this they would have the kids do things and I and every eighth day of Yantiff I would speak and I'm sure I pleded a lot you know and but they gave me an opportunity to speak and I cherished the few compliments I got and my father would come home and he would tell my mother did you miss a speech. Oh, did you miss something special? That was it. And we knew we knew how our father felt. We knew how my mother felt also. You know, it's just today everybody has to be so involved in every little thing. And and your kid comes home. Oh, did he have a bad day? Why did he get on a bad day? I don't know. Maybe maybe he just maybe he runs in, threw down his knapsack, ran to the bathroom. Maybe he just had to go to the bathroom. No. Oh, no. He's crying in the bathroom. What are we going to do? You know, we >> I hear a sticklester because on one hand you're saying that people don't give their kids enough focus, attention, and like let them talk it out and and at the other end you're saying people are overzealous. >> I think you need to love your children and not get hyper sensitive. Yeah, that's exactly the same thing. I think love them. You don't need to meddle into every little thing. You need to let them figure out life itself. Let them figure things out. Let them make the mistakes that we made. They'll probably make bigger mistakes along the way. and and then we have to guide them correctly. Again, I want to be clear. There's one book you notice that I never wrote. I never wrote a book on that's an agreement that my wife I mean at least for now two things my wife told me that I should never write on shalom bay and there will be rebuttals. Um, I'm not sure who's writing them, but no, you know, no one, we all need endless yadish. No one's an expert, but these are just things we learn mostly from our mistakes. And and we learned that, yeah, it's not a steer at all. You have to love them. You have to let them know in in in no uncertain terms that you love them and you're proud of them every moment, but you don't have to be all over them. It's I think it's not a steer at No, I just I guess I'm asking, do you think parents are making enough space for their kids or too much space for their kids? >> I think both, >> right? They're like making the wrong space maybe. >> That's right. That's right. Yeah. They're ignoring their kids. Ignoring your kid is not making conscientious space for your child. It's again, it's bene If we can go back to my father's term, benevolent neglect. It's a conscious neglect. You're we're not getting involved. I'll tell you one other thing like my father did. I remember it's just small things but life-changing for me. I was in 10th grade in Telashiva and a number of my friends went to different yeshivas. Some of my best friends went to other yeshivas and you know 10th grade was a time when I I said uh we started tells in 8th grade so 8th 9th it was my third year in yeshiva and I wanted to go test the waters and and the grass was always greener and I wanted to go to another yeshiva and my father dropped me off and I was very disappointed. It was after uh Sukisbanim and I discovered later that he made a he made a small pit stop where he stopped off by the apartment of Rabbanch and my rebu for the last 45 years of my life. And he stopped and he said maybe you can ask to learn with you for a few minutes every day. And I started to learn with for five minutes a day. We started with Mishnabu. We learned from many times this you can ask him by the way about about [laughter] the oh and he knew how to deal you know once he so by the way so my father got my father got to learn with me for a few minutes and I developed the most important relationship in my life my father never told me that obviously he didn't say who do you want to learn with do you want to learn with him maybe you can make the best. How about How about if we give you more things, right? How about we buy you something, you'd be happier. No, no, silly. Your kids don't want things. >> I saw a great bumper sticker. It said, "The most important things in life are not things." Isn't that a great one? >> Yeah. Great. Great. One time I was I don't know what I did. I wish I knew what I did. It's so many things. cuz I didn't know when Vanchel ignored me like two days I was in such tsar I was in such tar he once came and he's going to probably hear about this and he's going to call me he's going to raise one eyebrow he's going to I I whatever I did I did something where I disappointed him very much in some way and I remember he wanted me to come and ask ma or he wanted me not to ask he wanted me to say I was wrong I was a little stubborn and he sat down and Ranchu would come around and he would learn with kabusas to prepare you for second sader or first sader and he came and he learned with my sitting right next between the two of us and he just and he didn't speak to me and then one night after my over somebody and he said somebody told me wants to speak to you and we had a heartto-he heart for about two hours and then that was this was the night this was the night and when I walked back to the dorm. He handed me a corn beef sandwich. I remember I remembered vividly. I walked back from the to the dorm and corn beef sandwich. It was at that moment I decided I want to go to that was the moment I pro that was I said I want to be like a bunch. Yeah. Yeah. >> It wasn't the moment that you melted all the ice cream after a tough loss to Camp Heller. Wasn't that moment? >> He only got me on to speak about the whole thing and he could do that. I no I did I I wasn't even involved. I was the peacekeeper. I was you know one time we had one time my wife's grandfather died and we had to go to Cleveland and I called Gish and I asked him if he wants to cancel the game. He didn't want to play the game to begin with but I asked him he wanted to cancel the game and he said because I would go and I was supposed to try to keep peace between the natives and just to be clear by the way my novel was the New York Yankees. Everybody Why does everybody hate the Yankees? Because the Yankees got 27 championships. We hate the Yankees. So I So So G told me, "No, I don't want We're not going to cancel game. We'll be fine." And I we were driving back from the Levia from Cleveland to the mountains and I'm on the phone and the guys are giving me the playbyplay. >> That was that game you were talking about? >> There was a game. Whatever. They used to have a thing. You get ice cream if you beat Heller. I was in Heller. And if you lose though, you don't get the ice cream. They melt it in front of your face. >> That never happened, by the way. Never. Anybody who knows a Klein knows that that never happened. He never wasted the ice cream. He gave us the ice cream day. But >> well, this was wonderful, right, Spiro? This is really good. You really gave Kutzbah a good context, >> you know, to say we're not accepting it, but if we want to address it, we have to understand it essentially. >> Yeah. Yeah. But I again, we cannot accept it. Not because we're going to kill the kid if we allow him to grow up and we don't fix that. And it it can take years. It can take years. I'm sure you've gotten, you know, you're a little younger than me, but I'm sure you've gotten a little bit of feedback from a kid who after 10 years or whatever it is comes back and says, "Hey, by the way, >> could have done better." >> Okay. Unbelievable story. I just heard the story. Um, Arabian Kipper, somebody calls me. He says, "I you have time for a story." Just to be clear, somebody called me Matian Kipper told me a story, too. But I said, "Sure." And it's somebody who's given me some great stories before. He's a great mechan. He's a great Rebi. Told me that told me the following story. He told me that his kid, and this is so this is the told me that his kid is in yeshiva now. He's doing nicely. But his first year in yeshiva when he was in ninth grade, he learned well, but he really got into it with the English principal in the classroom, in the hallway, in the office. It was constant fighting back and forth and it got to the point where it was explosive. It was an untenable situation and they had to I think he decided to leave. But I'm sure the yeshiva was not upset like and the boy was a good boy but he was like a little you know it was it was wouldn't bend real story you know and he's in 10th grade now comes kipper now 15 year olds going to the mikvah is like you know they're they're a little nervous and as as the father told me they like to go Bengavra lavra you know what I mean they like and they want to go to the quietest mikvah and nobody should see him and understandable. Okay. Well, this kid did not want to go to the community mikvah. So, his father took a way out mikvah. He went there downstairs in some no. Okay. Pulls up. There's no one there. But one car pulls up. >> You know who it is. Don't want to ruin it. >> When he comes out of the mikvah, he says to his father, "Hi, that's Rabbi so and so, the English principal." after the mikvah he says should I ask ma'am he says I would have never told my kid to ask you know sometimes you just got to let things be for a while and this was really really bad it was a miserable situation and his kid was very hurt by it but once the kid brought it up he said if you'd like that's a beautiful thing that would be beautiful he goes over and he asks ma and the English principal is so mish he says please be my I'm so Sorry. And kiss makeup. You know, the English principal says, "I want to tell you something. I never come to this mikvah. I went to my regular mikvah. I don't know why it was closed. I said I don't want to go. I went all the way out to this mikvah." moved heaven and earth that a boy that had a little too much could be able to ask and the principal who maybe also needed to ask was to do that. Great story. >> Well, thank you so much. >> Great. Thank you so much for having me. I love listening to you guys. You're amazing. You should continue. Thank you. >> Thank you for joining us on another episode of the Learning Curve podcast. Thank you to everyone who send your comments, questions, thoughts to the learning [email protected]. Again, you could send that to the learning curve atmishbucka.com or you could call in to 4436869339. That's 44366869399. Wishing you all a wonderful day.