S2 Eps 15. Let's Talk Tefillah (feat. Rabbi Yitzchak Feigenbaum)

[music] control looks like for a long time. >> I'm telling you, he's the hardest working kid in this year. And that is a much more exciting sentence than he's the brightest kid in the class. Welcome to the Learning Curve podcast brought to you by Mishbaha Magazine. We are raising children in a changing and challenging world. >> So let's tackle the important issues facing from families today. >> I am Rabbi Garfield Manal of Yeshiva Terrace Emis in Houston and I love talking about >> I am Rabbi Ari Shonfeld Manalhiva Katana of Manhattan based tipper of Manhattan and director of camp. I also love talking and sometimes fishing. Join us as we answer your questions and discuss the topics that matter to parents the most and welcome to a very special live edition of the learning curve season finale for season 2. As always I am joined now I can see now other people can see the esteemed the honored um Rabbi Garfield. How are you Rabbi Garfield? Welcome. I am. Yeah, this is special. I feel like when you do something new, like everything's the first ever, right? Last last episode was the first ever manal live round table. Now it's our first ever live zoo event. >> This is there is extreme nostalgia in this for me. Extreme. My wife is upstairs making sure the internet connection is stable and this is like a throwback to the co years. Tell us for those who don't the very few the very few listeners who might not know exactly what went down give us like you know what happened how did it start just tell us quickly and then how big did it get at its greatest >> it started on March 19th 2020 um >> was just with your shear or something >> you know it was it was I I then I had a day camp so I sent out a flyer I remember sitting at the Shabas table um the the last Shabas meal we had together with other people right before like we were shut down by Mina so by by the Shabas sudo over there and things were shutting down and I turned to my wife and I said I'm going to do something in learning during co to try to I don't know be there for the kids and so we started on a Thursday night a flyer on the first night we had 300 people um which is really it stayed for a year and a half um and it was really >> what did it what did it peak at >> it peaked at around 2,000 screens uh a night and each screen had around three or four people, some of them high school girls. Um, especially the the the when it came to the Na'vi questions, but it was it was amazing. Um, and every once a week I'll meet someone that says, "Uh, oh, you know, I don't know if you remember me from Nights at America." My my nephew on at the Shabas table just told me that I asked him a huge trivia question and it was just very mean of me, but he's my nephew, so I could be um, you asked him what the next word in the gamarra is. closed gumar for like a big um prize and he said the next word is he and the next word on the gumar was who. Okay. And I gave it to him wrong and he was like what did he what >> he was playing the odds. >> No no he had to know it. He had to know the next word and he thought it was it was he said he who finally got it wrong. It was a big like fighters reby fight. He told me that last week he bumped into a kid who he had never met in his life and the kid's like hey I recognize you. You're the who guy. [laughter] >> Oh that's great. So anyways, so that was nice in America, but here we are on a um a live Zoom for the learning curve and this is really our our second season and Barashem we've enjoyed it from the beginning from season one and you can go back and listen but our reach our listeners have have doubled in season two. So I guess that means people either like arguing with us or like what we have to say. Um, but this is the >> Well, one of us clearly they'd agree with the other one they'd like to argue with, but we'll leave that for the listeners. >> Correct. This is the season finale, which Mr. Jim hopefully will pick up after the summer for season 3. And away we go. So, Robbie, you want to explain how this works? >> Yeah. So, we're looking forward to hearing your questions and uh the two ways to do it are either to send a text, a a a chat rather, to chat with Rabbi Schumfeld, ideally not myself, because he knows how to double to read it and do this at the same time. So chat, send the chat to Rabbi Shfeld with a topic or a question that you want to discuss. You're welcome to indicate that either you'll ask the question live or we will read it. Right. >> Right. So here we go. Matter of fact, I I'm going to do our first our first pivot of the night because I see some people are already posting questions. So we you know, we got a question. A few questions were sent in. Maybe we'll save those. But let's, you know, I'm going to read this question and then if the person who sent this question wants to, I guess, speak back when when you give our answers, more than welcome. Raise your hand and we'll call on you and we'll we'll unmute. Um, so this is her question is as follows. I don't know. Can you see these questions? I don't think so. Right. >> I can't see them. I'm very excited to hear what they are. >> So I'll ask it to you, I think. Hi. What is your take on kids participating in Shabas meals, being present for an adult making kiddish, benching with everyone, etc. having them stay at the table. How much do you try to get kids force kids push kids to stay at the the the table by the Friday night sudo or shabas and how much you just let them roam? >> Wow, good question. You want to you want to share your thoughts on that? >> So, as a father of Kanahara, I'm blessed with with six children. I think the theme if you've listened to our any of our podcasts um in the last two years I read our articles I think the theme is what and and it comes from you know one of the things one of the authors we like to quot right and spare the child of control vers and any type of forcing forcing the kid to sit at the table forcing the kid to say vra to you know all of those forcing um usually come back to bite you and if and and maybe not now when your son my daughter is eight or nine, but I don't think you're fostering, you know, a love for the Shabas suda um by doing that. As always, it's role modeling, right? That's that's that's the best. Make your suda so exciting and fun. I don't again, not everyone has that that that that suda, but make it that the kids matter and and and and have them say, "We we we have a we have a shabas para baseball game that we play um without bats and balls." Um, you know, try to to to do what you can to make it exciting for them to stay at the table. Um, but I don't know what you gain whenever you use that. Um, you know, trying to make sure that everyone's there. Yeah. Well, I think for Kdish I I think I' I've been I've been to a lot of people's houses, but Kdish people come to the table and you tell everyone to come and you know, if you create that that surah and that I think by and large for those that aren't, you're going to have to be creative. Yeah, I think I agree 100%. And I think in a way it's sort of like the canary in the coal mine. If your kids are running away from your suda, that's a indication that something is not something could be adjusted either. >> They're tired or they're really tired. >> Every f every meal they're very tired. Every shabas they're very tired. All meals like okay, doubt it. Um I I think more it indicates that either listen if a person's relationship is very uncomfortable generally then they don't want to be at the meal with them not because of anything they're doing at the meal just because it's an uncomfortable relationship right who wants to spend time with someone they're uncomfortable with I certainly wouldn't want to so again it's not an indictment of a parent but it's an indication to parents to say um is there something uncomfortable like let's take this moment because Ribyin 's insight and he explains this. I just want to point this out is control looks like for a long time, >> right? >> You can get away with control for years till your kids are 16, sometimes 18, sometimes even 23, sometimes 27. You know, you get away with it, but then the longer you do that, the bigger it's going to blow up. I think he uses the muscle of the rubber band that one pulls. I don't know if he uses it or someone uh in the similar space uses it. You pull pull pull pull pull pull pull pull pull and then when you let go. So someone listening might be thinking well you know I I could force them and they'll come. Yeah it's true. You could they would but I would say use use their behavior as a communication to you to say to yourself what what's the bigger picture here that that we might be missing? >> I'm going to ask I think her her first name it says is Sara. So if she wants to mute herself or not I guess not. That's the woman's name. So I I think the better question Rabbi Garfield that I want to pose on the Friday night suda is and this I don't have an answer to because it doesn't exactly um I don't have a great answer for this is is the seating arrangement right what's the seating arrangement that you're you have like assigned seats >> oh boy do we oh >> you have assigned seats no matter what >> they'll assign it the kids have their sheetas and they work it out and negotiate and discuss it of course it's not assigned I I mean I don't care where everyone sits but you know one wants to sit next to mommy and mom wants to sit at the other head and wants >> you don't have a sign right so that do you want to know the biggest in the shul home the big >> there's there's a kas there's a kas mostly >> you know and then kids come home from yeshiva do they get back their kas or do >> but what why is that why is that worthy of our >> because I have no answer for it in my house every single Friday night is another saga and another suga >> really >> yeah yes yes >> why you can't come up with a rotation system a >> you could rotation you could you And but but why is it maybe the Bakar should always sit next to you know Aba or Mi um you know you you we spoke about before about control just I heard a story last week about about that happened very recently he was asked to go to Benabra and he had to vi to go to I was asked by one of the gdelim to come for a very important meeting. So Rabasha went to the meeting and he came back and you know and someone asked him did you visit your mother when you were in Benbra? for Basha's mother was kind of probably well into her 90s I think and the person said to her Basha did you visit your mother and he said no and they said you were in Benbra and he didn't visit your mother and he said it was the middle of second seder she would be so embarrassed to see me not in yeshiva it wouldn't be nah for me to come into the house in the middle of second seder so that's you know again just Rabbasher has this understanding of the value that his mother placed and he's a right in in in in second that he felt it wasn't you know he didn't have to be told he just felt it wasn't filled all right next question I I started this one rabbi I'll give you this one this one um is from someone named Khani um and hi huge TLC fancy that's the way you get us to read it because when you write that here with a question if a child is having a very frustrating moment either at me or not and they say something that comes out not terly but definitely not the way they should be talking to to a parent, should you call it out in the moment or wait till the moment calms down before you tell them? By the way, the way you spoke to me before was not the way we talk as a to I guess that'll be an example. By the way, the way you spoke to me before was not the way we talked to the parent. How do you address not something that's outrageous that you know, how do you address in the moment, not in the moment? Obviously parents, you know, there's parents will have different intuitions given the greater moment. But I'm going to tell if there are any kids listening or anyone who wants to get anything done. I'm going to share with you the Garfield secret to get anything you want done from someone else. Here, here it goes. Okay. Number one, you never do it in the moment. Too dangerous. They're emotional. They're going to be upset. They're going to be defensive. Number two, in private. If you ever give feedback to someone where anyone else could hear you immediately defensive, emotional, dismissive. So number one, not in the moment. Number two, in private. Number three is using an eye statement. >> What does that mean? >> An eye statement is I felt bad when you said that. It's very hard to argue with that. You really can't. You didn't feel bad. What? You know, it it made it made me feel bad, you know, or I I was I was sad when you talked to me that way. You were not sad. What are you gonna say? Anet. So, so I would suggest that if someone wants to change >> is that way. Are you trying to guilt them? Is that what you're trying to do to guilt them? >> Scary. You're reflecting back to another human being the the way you experience that moment. You know, you're giving you're giving like feedback. you're saying, "Listen, now depending on the situation, there are times when you could say, um, I'm not sure that was the most respectful way, but the more again, the the more directed it, you're trying to avoid the person's psyche going into protection mode by dismissing you, that's always the immediate reaction." You know, I've never seen anyone driving where they do something and then someone gets mad at them like, "Oh, you're right. I'm sorry." Never. It's always like, "You did it, not me." You know, it's our natural reaction is just to like defend ourselves because we're also so insecure of being called doing anything wrong that we immediately shut down and we won't even listen to the feedback to protect ourselves. That's like the nature of every person. So, if you're right away you say that was wrong, they're like, "Ah, no, it wasn't." And they don't even hear you. They don't even hear you, right? >> Or if it or it's a safe face, if it's in public, they won't even hear you. But if you do it privately and not in the heat of the moment and you use language that's less least triggering, you have a chance of the child actually hearing you. So that's the general rule. Obviously, like I said in the beginning, there are times when uh you know there are exceptions to things. >> So are you not supposed to address the fact that it's it's wrong? you were just to that is wronging it as opposed to making it a a we don't speak and that's not how one talks to a parent. >> Right? So I would say if the goal is that you want to go down in the record book where everything is recorded that you stood up for co and you won't stand for it then you could say that and that would work. But if your goal is to change the behavior of the child and and be them, then you have to find language that will actually impact the child. So there are times when you can give a covet lesson. I have a great idea. Next Friday night at your suda, not connected to this incident, not connected to giving mus. You give a nice speech about covid and you talk about giving covet to his mother and you inspire covid. You talk about covet that's great. But if you want this child to actually reflect on what happened in a meaningful way, if you get you could listen, there's always like that that >> I'm going to be the mouthpiece of this woman because she she continues on that she just texted back and maybe that's how we're going to work. Those of you that are interested in speaking, you're allowed to. So, but it's not about my feelings though. It's about being to not be and aren't you missing the forest from the trees, >> right? So again, if listen, you know, by all means, if it works for you, Connie, to to hit her hit her straight and hard, go for it. You know, hey, try it. See what happens. But in my experience, children just double down. And it's very hard for them to >> But are you missing the message? You're making it about you hurt me as opposed to you bringing. So maybe you'll get her not to do it again, but is she not learning? I look for other listen teaching or covid really teaching how to be mabid people is a great thing to teach in general you should teach it you should definitely teach it and uh you know one day maybe you could mention it but it's going to be hard to get that person to really incorporate it might work but it's sometimes hard to get the child to really take it home if they put up their defenses that's it if you could get it in without the child getting defensive in my experience many kids when they feel accused they get they get very um defensive So then it's hard for them to hear you. >> You know your your first point about being in the moment. My first year being a Rebi um in Yeshua String Valley. One of my Tom was got really angry. I don't even think it was at me. I'm talking like real anger and I think he said something and he walked out of the room and I chased after him in my rookie season. Right. I said get back here. >> And he's like I'm right. Get back here. That so right. And that and I remember speaking >> why you had to stand up for COVID. He's gonna think it's okay to talk to her that way. If you don't stand up, you're losing the forest from the trees. >> Right. That right. But but that's when I learned that lesson of in the heat of the moment. See, there's right in the heat of the moment, there's very little that can happen. There sometimes needs to be control. You might have to take control of this. >> Right. So here's I guess what I'm saying in a sense if if later you make it too accusatory, you're reigniting the heat of the moment. That's all. If you could if you could get the message across without reigniting the heat of the moment, you know, maybe that's a place to go. Like if you say, "Oh, you know, yesterday when you came over to me and you said, uh, be quiet. That was very, >> yeah, okay, that's, you know what, maybe that could be done. I'm okay with that." As long as it's not, you know, if you if you do it too aggressive and too accusatory, the child's just going to go back to the heat of the moment and not listen to you, >> right? >> They're going to get defensive. They're going to say, "You know why I did that? Cuz you and there you are again." So you have to be careful not to reignite it. Again, don't think that I'm not into teaching COVID and teaching appropriate COVID. You have to do that. That's an ongoing thing. But as a re, you know, as a as a reaction to helping a child appreciate their behavior, sometimes doing it softer gets the ability for the child to to internalize the message. >> There there are Oh, one second. Honey's not done. Amazing. Got it. Thank you. All right. Welcome, honey. >> Another TLC listener say there are a bunch of questions here on the chat that that are directed me. Again, is if you look in the main chat, it says if you want to ask a question again, you can either raise your hand, the little icon, or you could just chat the question into the chat and it'll come to to me and I'll read it. A lot of high school questions. >> Let's go. >> So, let's take we'll do one at a time. Um, we'll start with the admission process and we'll go from there. This is a long one. Wow. Do you think it's fair that massifa is seen to prioritize admissions based on natural intelligence rather than the effort students put in? Many students are willing to put in an extraordinary amount of effort, but learning doesn't come as easy to them as it does to others. As a result, they may be overlooked by top schools in favor of those who excel more effortlessly. Shouldn't schools reward dedication and effort rather than just raw academic ability? And she continues and says, "My son dreams of attending a certain mifa. He's willing to put in the effort. However, he's concerned that despite his dedication, he may not be admitted because he isn't naturally as smart in certain areas. Should missas focus more on selecting students based on intelligence or should they place greater value on hard work and commitment to the school's academic structure? You worked in a missa. I worked in a missifa. So, we have some um and my job is to get boys into misa now. Um I just stopped talking, Rabbi. When I stop talking, you take over. >> Okay. Uh, listen, yeah, I was a ninth grade rebby for nine years in Atlanta and my honestly my reaction which probably is not going to be helpful to this questioner, but I'll just tell you I was like I don't want to go to that. I don't want my kid in the yeshiva that that doesn't recognize his strengths. >> So I know I know that's not going to be you don't live the world. Fine. I'm just saying like >> I'm not inspired by a school that doesn't want my kid like why would you want to go to a school that doesn't appreciate what your child has to offer? You know, I could say I could say this and I think, you know, since it's just me, you, and a few listeners here, um, you know, uh, I don't know how to name that. I'm very close to someone who's very involved in in a yeshiva that has they know who fits, who's going to be successful in their yeshiva and who's not. And every year there are a number of people. I'm not this year I haven't heard anything, so this isn't a quiet like nod to anybody, but there's always people who say, I know better. I know it's gonna be good for my kid. my kid works really hard. You really need to take him. And they're like, we know it's not going to work. And you know what happens? It never works. Ever. Ever cannot because they know what works in their yeshiva. So, you know, I'm very cautious about pushing a kid into a place where the yeshiva themselves doesn't feel that that child is going to be set up for success. >> Yeah. So, so I I I kind of not see both sides, but on the one hand um the yeshivas, as you said, they're Well, I I'll stay this way. I once had a parent who was very upset at me. I was eighth grade rabbi and my job was high school placements and trying to get into yeshivas. And they said to me, it's it's autese yeshivas take only the top kids. What do they think they it's like a Harvard type thing and it's horrible. And I said to them, "Where did you go to school?" And this father went to Harvard. And I said, "And and why did you go to Harvard?" Because it was the best college, right? It was the best university. And we need a Harvard for the kids that are capable of going to Harvard. So the concept of having yeshivas that are for I'm not use them because it's you know an eye roll but but the concept of having yeshivas on different levels of learning and there are certain yeshivas that are start out on on on a certain level of intellect then I think there's nothing wrong with that and there are certain boys that maybe for reasons that that are whether it's social or whether it's family pressures or or whatever reasons want to go to yeshiva that they don't belong in. So there there there's definitely a part of that where because there's a pressure and you want to be viewed a certain way that you try to get into yeshiva that you don't necessarily belong in. That being said, that being said, to your point, so often and really this is where Rabame and Manalam of 8th grade and Yeshiva's um play such a huge role. I will often speak to Manalum about a kid and I will tell them, I know you've heard him and maybe he didn't ace it and you could tell that he's not a natural olive plus kid, you know, blah blah blah. I'm telling you, he's the hardest working kid in the shoe. And that is a much more exciting sentence than he's the brightest kid in the class. >> It depends on the yeshiva, >> right? No, but I'm telling you my experience and I've been doing this for for a while. high schools is like my my sweet spot of trying really to help kids get into yeshivas and mash them up with the right yeshivas. I think if if if your it is mim for that then the fact then the hard work pays off. Okay, this woman um I think it was woman first name thoughts with an S. She asked questions less about pushing more about yeshiva's perspective than parents. What should they prioritize? Yeshiva prioritize smarts or effort? We need both right? I mean, we need yeshivas for for for for different levels of learning. We need yeshivas that focus more on and yeshivas that, you know, maybe we don't have enough of different types of yeshivas. >> It's an easy, you know, rabbit hole to go down in terms of like yeshivas need to do this, they need to do that. You know, you know, this is we're more talking about the parents. You know, I think this podcast is more parent focused. Uh neither of us currently run yeshivas. I can tell you that our school, our elementary school is fully equal for everybody. We celebrate all of our students and you know I hear I hear it's I don't know I mean at some point I think we would all agree that when it gets to base medish when kids are 20 23 25 whatever that there could be more of a distinction. I think we agree that in elementary school it's probably not healthy and the question is what about high school you know and that's a transition where you go from a situation where everyone should feel that they have equal access to more of an exclusive uh kind of situation. There's definitely a proliferation of yeshivas that are that are healthy places that are not for kids who are you know natural geniuses. It's definitely becoming more common and um you know >> yeah let's stay in high school and then so the next question is how much should one compromise in order to keep one's child at home rather than going away to to dorm dorm versus staying at home. It's such a big h it's such a big, you know, open question. It's hard to I mean, it's so I think it's it's personal. I don't know. You live in Houston, so you I know you have a local issue now. So, >> I do feel a little strongly about this. Listen, I'm I'm blessed to have a number of of children who have experienced both. And um personally, and I I have I also did grow up in Philadelphia with I've been blessed to have a wonderful relationship with the Philadelphia Shashiva Kameki. And I've I've spoken to him personally about it about my children and about other people's children. And when I was in an Reb in Atlanta, he had a lot to say about it then. That was 20 years ago uh or so maybe more 22 years ago. I remember he came to Atlanta and we were starting and met with all the kids. It was like a whole thing. And and there's no question that all things equal. There always exceptions, but all things equal in my opinion for at least ninth and tth grade. It's worth tremendous sacrifice. Not that we have to sacrifice. >> This indicates to mean to send the kids to the dorm. >> No. To keep the children home. >> To send the kids to the dorm. >> Yes. We finally Let's Let's duke it out. >> Yeah. >> I think I'm the minority on this. So, go. You go for it. >> I'm just saying. I mean, the home provides a stability, you know. Could it work better in a dorm for some kids? Yes. But you're you're taking a risk. What's the risk? A roommate who bullies him. A rabbi he feels insecure. A dorm environment that's not healthy. Lots of vaping. downtown Mozy Shabas, Friday night, god forbid, even abuse that takes place when you have a little kid who goes away. I'm not talking about the worst type of abuses, but even minor abuses or other whatever. Um, so the risk is so significant for a little these little ninth graders. I just I don't I don't think it's worth it. >> Someone raised their hand. It says M's iPhone. I am going to I actually pull my America brain. I think I might know who this is. Bye. >> We ain't got know what >> I'd love to hear your opinion before we >> I'm gonna give my opinion this out because I was gonna I think we even quote this person. So the person raised his hand. >> I might know what this person is going to say. So if you want to un >> What about a yeshiva that is a quasi dorm? >> So it's let's say they dorm during the week and they come home perhaps one night during the week. Let's say Tuesdays and they come home every shabas. Wouldn't that be best of both worlds? I asked because I had a conversation with he should be well and that's exactly what he told me again it could have been a direct personal conversation personal to me but I'm asking if you would agree with that as a general >> yeah I'll tell you with regard to 90% of my concern I think so meaning if your child is suffering silent first of all thank you m and thanks for sharing that and you're also it's a real braha that you had opportunities to speak should be well. But um yeah, I think so because then you get to check in with your child and you get to be part of his life and if there's something going wrong, you get to be there for him. There's still a lot of downtime that goes on in dorms that are like not healthy. Like one of the big baines of in town living that we don't have in Houston is the bus. The bus and a dorm is like a bus on steroids. It's the wild west of bus. So you know it still does >> Yeah, we're not discussing the bus question. The busy was sent in. I want the buses. I don't >> right a dorm is worse than a bus. So all the worries we have about a bus, you know, a dorm and a little ninth grader with 11th graders, 12th graders, I don't know. But I I would say a lot of the concern would be addressed like that. And then again, you get into the individual situation about who the kid is and what the he was like and what you know there other factors. So it doesn't address it a thousand%. >> Yeah. So M who I happen to know who M is. Um I was going to quote because I know that story of Abram Kameki. So M beat me to it. Um but what yes first of all there are different there are different types of dorms. There are dorms you go away you go to N you come home once a month. You go to Philly you come home every six weeks. You go out of town you come home every six weeks. You go to Mortal >> for ninth and tth grade they have a dorm room in Baltimore. They have >> not not if you live not if you live in Houston. >> No no no. Right. But the locals I'm saying the locals go home. right >> on a on a regular basis. >> So, so I'm actually dealing this now with a friend of mine has a child that has to switch ishivas and he's debating versus a dorm. He's in the middle of MFA debating versus dorm versus non-dorm and of course every scenario is different of course but things being equal everything is health and everything is wonderful the value that your child has from being in a yeshiva in which he dins finishes marav and and if you have to be mature enough and he has to be ready to learn and he has to be on a certain it it he has to be on a certain Raman a certain level but the value of Thursday night in yeshiva in which you you dive in at 8:30 and then you probably don't have homework because if you do probably not much homework and then you go back to yeshiva and then you have a kava and you learn maybe the medishkai and it's 10:30 11 and you're fighting with the mashk because it's past curfew and you want to learn that experience is priceless and yes if you're able to get to shabas then that's where the best of both worlds come comes back in which I long beach ninth grade a lot of yes I yes are null they're different yeshivas that that slowly introduce the long-term dorm. But I think if your son doesn't have to come home and whether you have a video game at home, right, or whether you have a sports games at home or just siblings at home and minutiae at home and and hawk, yes, the dorm has to there there are challenges to a dorm, but I I have three children and I I did all the experiences, three sons, I all the experiences, all three areing um but I think >> and what would you say about waiting till 11th grade to do that? Like meaning you still have a risk. We're agreeing that when you send someone to a dorm there's a risk. You agree with that? >> Tremendous. I I I was sitting I for for 10 years I was a rebby in YBH Payic and the Payic standard parent is we don't want to send the kid to the dorm and and I would have this conversation every single year with parents and sometimes the parents felt strongly and of course they'd listen to me. Um but it was the value and the dorms that we were talking about were these hybrid dorms. The value is immeasurable. your son will will will grow up will mature you can't you know you know right the famous verse from rigifter about about that that an coming home could sometimes be a break that being said you know there are local every town is different and in mifa and in pic the local yeshiv come home at 11 o'clock at night anyway so it's almost like a quasi dorm right the kids that are really learning I just think there's such value to a dorm if you still have the ability um to like you know I guess I don't know maintain that relationship with your uh with uh you know >> again it's it's a question of I hear you and if it all goes great it's wonderful but when it doesn't your kid's life is at risk and I think you'll get those experiences in 11th and 12th grade and why take the risk gen we're talking generally okay obviously there are exceptions but generally speaking I would say why take the risk why rush it's not a sprint it's a it's a marathon right so why rush into something that has inherent risk if you have an option at home let him go hungry let him go ready to go he'll have those experience in 11th and 12th grade. Shalom. >> So, >> we could disagree. Yeah, we could disagree. >> Yeah. How could one assess if their child is cut out for the dorm or not? >> Fair question. >> Yeah, that's a great question. I would say number one is how they do in sleep wake camp. You know, some kids are stronger socially. I mean, you know, basically it's a question of how how they will deal with adversity when they have a hard day at school. What happens? Do they go and do they need a lot of comforting and a lot of support which is nothing wrong with a 13-year-old needing that that's not dysfunctional it's just different needs are they more macho or they you know and um you know I think that all plays into it do they have friends go >> right I think that's the part where that's the part where parents have that beanie in which you know the first conversation was a hashkovic de debate maybe about the value of dorms whether your son is mature enough and ready for a dorm Um, I don't want to say you'll know, but but trust your gut. Trust your gut whether it's the right environment and every dorm is different obviously, but you know, yes, sleep away camp is a big barometer. Um, if he struggled in sleep, it's not the same, but if he struggled in sleepwake camp, you know, did did he shower for the four weeks? Did he, you know, who's going to help him with homework? Especially if he's medicated, that's a big challenge. Who's going to be on top of his medication? When he has a bad day, is he going to tell someone? I don't mean anything crazy. you know, kids that kids that share with their parents. Are you concerned that if he send he's going to have no one to share that I don't know, he had a rough day in sheer. These are the things that you really have to assess. Let's go to this one. I think it's not so prevalent in our circles. I hope. But let's talk about it. A little bit of an elephant in the room. I don't know if you're aware of this um Garfield. And that is gambling. Are you aware of the struggle of gambling in that is creeping slowly into the world of teenagers, high school teenagers. >> So I know when I was a Revy in Atlanta, we had a major gambling situation and we had to do a like a schmita or whatever. >> Oh my gosh. >> Like a yo, all monies, all loans rebuttal and like you know whatever you owe anyone, we made a major. So definitely it's not new. That was a long time ago. >> So, this is any advice for high schoolers that are struggling with online gambling addictions. This is probably above our pay grade, right? Whether it's football fantasy >> or card games. Football fantasy is unfortunately an addictive and a very big part of a lot of kids and I and >> it for money. I thought you just play with your friends or something. >> Yeah, I'm sure. Well, what starts with playing for friends usually leads to money. I don't I think we leave that question, right? This is this is the danger of doing it live. Yeah. >> Well, I do I do have like one or two comments about it. I don't I don't have a lot of experience with online gambling. Um it happened to be that I found out it's illegal in Texas, by the way, which was interesting. So, to bet on sports or something like that, but um where I live, but um you know, like any vice, I think I think that you know, it's the kind of thing that could indicate the need for a child to to need some kind of help. They're struggling. they're they have anx you know I I don't know what the triggers are for online gambling but if a child anytime a child is so deeply involved with the dysfunctional behavior it's not really only about that behavior it morally indicates something broader so never get lost in the specificity of that issue but rather you know always think broad >> let's turn to girls um so maybe five years ago I would have said I don't I don't do girls but now I have three daughters that already one is 13 and one is 10 and one is six. Wow. I got their ages right and now we have a girl school on the west side. So we're Tifa Rin. So two questions on girls. Here's the first one. My 17-year-old daughter and I are very different. I take what I can get while she wants what she can't. And she doesn't stop trying to get it. We're at a point where I tell her that I will get what she needs and she can buy everything else she wants with her babysitting money. But that still doesn't stop her. And many times it ends with me yelling at her to stop asking for things when she knows I can't get it for her. I'm not sure if this is the right question to ask, but how can I relate to my daughter so that I don't end up getting so frustrated and she can feel validated? And how can I make her understand that looking at others and wanting to get what they have is so unhealthy? >> Wow, that's a really that's a great question. First of all, I just want to um I guess praise that mother to being open to not to recognizing that there are different different styles, I guess, or different personalities and not not being fully like judgmental on the kid, like they're bad. It's more like, you know, recognizing that your nature is one thing, your child's nature is something else. Um, and I I don't know about your your uh Rabbi Sha, your parents, they should be well, but I could tell you my parents if they're listening, have very different spending habits. Like remarkably different >> between themselves. >> Yes. Yes. Like one of my parents, it's like if you go to the >> parents didn't have spending habits. >> Both of them >> they didn't spend. >> If you wanted to get a good pair of sneakers, who would you go to? Your mother or your father? If I wanted to get >> like you wanted the new Jordan in uh I went to none. I never had Jordans. If I I I went to my I went to my mother that that's the thousand a thousand. >> There you go. So your mother and your father had different spending nature, right? So my parents too like if like one of my parents I don't have to get into which one. You go to a museum you're definitely getting something in the museum shop like it's part of the museum experience. Another one no way. We're parking we're walking. There's nothing being bought in the museum shop. Like nothing to talk about. So there's just different personalities. I don't judge them. I just think it's different. So I think that's one thing to start with and understand that clearly your daughter maybe follows her father or maybe a grandfather or grandmother. I don't know. I don't know how it develops, but there are people who have different habits or styles or whatever. And you know it's very hard to change that to force change in that regard. So the question really is how are you meek to have those those values and I think that the way you're doing it is really great is to say listen >> well the first question is how do I not get frustrated h how do I keep in my relationship you know I don't know if I'd call it a personality type but it's definitely a personality style and like think about like I would encourage this the person who asked the question to think about their parents or people that they're close to and and look at the differences of their spending or at their work even like you know in my work I know some people are just people have different ways that they do things, you know, and some people love giving away their lending their car and some people like would never lend their car out. It's just how it is. I don't know. Is it a judgment? Like, so >> yeah, but this mother, I mean, but but I would think that wanting to have always what others have is not a healthy approach, right, to life. So, she's trying to give that over to her daughter who wants everything. >> Well, hold on. Don't you want one second? Isn't that a normal thing for a kid to want what other people have? I think that's pretty normal. I If my kids going to camp, my daughter, forget sons for a second. My daughter is going to camp. The whole thing is about getting what other people have. That's like the whole camp experience is getting the right water bottle and the right sweater and the right uh band or I don't even know anymore. I'm making that stuff up. They're probably parents are probably laughing. But you know, all that stuff, the certain type of skirt and the certain type of sneakers, the Adidas sneakers, there's lines now and the different. So like I don't think that's atm like such a bad mida for a kid to have. Do you Rabbi Schfeld? Do you? >> I I think we try. So my my response to this woman is that first of all I do think we try to show our children the ma the extreme value of of of yes that if you are constantly searching and if you find happiness only in things what other people's have you will not find happiness and I think that happiness has to come from within I don't mean to be I do think that one of the biggest challenges we have as rebum as parents in a school for sure is is our image and our presentation and how it reflects upon us and me and you're going to make me look bad. Um, and to me one of the challenges that we have as parents is not is is is when a daughter does something we we we reflected on ourselves and they are not you. They have mileas that you have. They have that you have our sons are like that. Our talid are like that. um you know there's a certain Rebi that we're dealing with today that that is struggling with one with a couple of kids and he's like and he's taking it it's like it doesn't reflect poorly upon you if this kid has this struggle necessarily and I think such an important thing that we live vicariously through our children that's a little bit what nas is right but when our daughters have these what we what we look at or our son has we look at as weaknesses and oruses or challenges I think half of our frustration and I'm going to speak personally is that ego of how does it make me look and I think it it's it's a it's a it's a life battle to respect the kid for who they are and their challenges and realize that it doesn't reflect poor poorly or even sometimes the opposite pos is is it's a challenge but I think the more we can be aware of it because the kids hate when oh you're just saying that because you won or you care right >> all right let's move on let's move >> thanks for this great platform I'm in the kos in a quite modern high school in Eros is >> nice. >> Woo. Where things are obviously different than the states. Okay. Quite modern high school. Okay. We have a no smartphone policy and the principal wants to hear every time we have info about a girl with a smartphone. Usually to suspend for a few days and shake up the other girls sometimes as the mechanis will benefit the girl as I am more aware to where she is holding. Oh, great question. Ah >> my question is as in for the girls in class's benefit how much should I keep it to myself and not leave it for the principal to deal with now if this woman is an soul now she just put this on the chat call because it's 3 o'clock in the morning or four o'clock in the morning but anyways um this is an amazing question right I don't know what you know of of I don't know what this I don't know what her role is that's the truth so maybe she can she [snorts] can write >> what's the question what a crisis can you say the question part >> how much should I keep it to myself and not leave it for the principal to deal In other words, she's a Right. She thinks the worst thing in the world for this for this girl is to get caught with a with a >> not leave for the principal. Meaning, should she snitch, so to speak, >> right? Right. The kid obviously thinks it's snitching, but it's kind of her job. >> I'm saying that's the question. Not leave it to the principal. Should she tell >> Okay. >> Correct. >> Well, I'm sure you deal with this in camp all the time because you have counselors and things going on. Do you want them, you know, how would you advise that? >> That's an all It's not a bad com again. It's not a bad comparison. Um >> well I thank you >> but thank you for breaking up camp. Um it really matters who the principal is. In other words, if you what it sounds like from the question for me is that this doesn't trust her man or man whatever it is right her her boss the male of the school to under to give her the latitude right to make that judgment call. I'll have and again yes we also we have things in camp of course where the kids are all out whatever it is every camp whatever it doesn't matter what it is right so I will I'll have I'll talk to my counselors and I'll tell them don't tell me I don't want to know make believe you didn't tell me right and that's the relationship that I have that I hope you have with your rebby with your with your staff that they trust you to have the faith in them to know when it is that something that I have to say and when it is that it's something that does not have to say. You know, that that's number one. How that being said, um never ever tell a child or anyone that that that like don't promise secrets. There's no rule of secrets. It's, you know, it's I'm not talking about someone who's who's a professional and you're a therapist and there's no client confidentiality. But but the girls should know that my job like and I told this to the counselors and and I told this to the campers. I'll tell the campers and I'll tell my your counselor has an aas let's say I don't know a phone now have phones my camp now we have electronics we don't even let 246es in campage that's our big controversial thing and I love 246 it's it's the most cusher out there but we don't want electronics in camp where we try fine so I'll tell the kid that if your counselor catches you and he doesn't report me he gets in trouble in other words that's his job but in a healthy environment the mashk will understand when it's something that he has to go to the rashiva with or the man with when it's something that the will trust him but if you have a right here it is what is it the principal wants to hear every time we have info about a girl with a smartphone usually to suspend it for a few days and shake up the other girls this sounds to me that this mas doesn't trust the principal so then I don't have a good answer for you so then then you that that working relationship is broken and then in this case would be some scenarios just to be matted the Manelis where she has a different focus. A Manelis is for the the whole you know the school the whole mid and and what it means and there could be things at play that put her in a position where she has to take certain action even though the teacher you know might have a different perspective. I just do want to say one thing you know there is a mishbut aspect to this that you're hired to do a job. It's not so push it to be so willy-nilly about expectations like like >> is what your job is, right? >> I'm saying if that if you're hired to I could see a Rebi like I asked the Rebi to learn mus whatever Tamura and they say no no we're going to learn uh you know yamas like I'm sorry but like this is the job. So, you know, there there's a there's a balance to that. And I would encourage the listener if she if she's listening to to ask a shya about that to make sure that, you know, there's no issue with that. It depends on a lot of factors that could play into it. But in the end, do no harm. I would say don't tell. That's my if there's no mish issue, I would not tell ever. >> Uhhuh. Okay. Note to self, don't hire Godfield as Mashk for >> Yeah. Yeah. I'm going to I am going to put the relationship with that kid. Obviously, if you think that it would help the kid and that you need to, but that's not the case here. You feel it's going to hurt the kid. So, >> you know, assuming that there's no issue, I would I would definitely do that. Let's try to wrap up. We could do one maybe. >> Two more. Two more. >> You have two more. Do you have them picked out already? >> I do. I have I have two. >> How do you deal with a school policy that no one listens to? >> Ah, I know how. >> Who's asking the question? >> Is it a parent? >> Yeah, it's a parent. It's a parent. How do you deal with school? What do you mean? How do you deal with a school positive? give over of the message that it's important to listen to school rules without making your child feel like the only nerd who's following the policy. Example, by mido policies, rules about dress sites out of school, vacations, etc. Let me ask you a question. Yeah. What would the manal say >> if the manal was listening and he he didn't argue with the facts like we all agree they have a rule and no one listens to it, right? What would he expect a parent to do? I have gotten I got a phone call recently from a parent. It was about it was about going it was missing yeshiva for something that was was not that important to listen to. I know. Sorry. Not important. I mean, it was not it was not a big They wanted to take their kid wherever it was. Wait for Shabas, right? Um and they called me, you know, and I want to go against the school policy and and know and I said to them, not every time are you supposed to ask. It's okay to not ask. So, please don't call me. If you're asking me, do I think it's right for you to take your son skiing? You know, like, you know, forget he needs it. Like, whatever. So, in other words, sometimes there don't ask, don't tell. don't have to don't make a big deal out of it, but but you don't have to ask everything. Do things and don't ask me. Um, you know, but I think we've discussed this in the past a little bit. You know, we have to make rules for any institution to run, for any yeshiva to run. And as a parent, as a parent, I don't mind splitting, you know, splitting the baby. I don't mind telling the kid that we respect the yeshiva immeasurably and of course this is all in the messaging and it's also all in how you live. I respect the yeshiva immeasurably. We have a different shittita, you know, and I'm not talking about being sneaky, you know, we have a different shittita. The school, let's say, let's say school doesn't let you go to Florida for the vacation, right? I think there might I think there are yeshivas like that. I don't I don't think they're you know, today you could say, so why are you going to that yeshiva? If you don't want to follow by the rules, then don't go to that yeshiva. answer is that in picking yeshiva, it's not going to be about every single, you know, that I don't agree with everything about any about anyone that every shul that I do in I don't like everything that my I love everything my RV does, but I don't like everything that Gabby does. Um, and and I think it's I I think it's okay for a parent >> I love everything my assistant RV does, but go ahead, continue. >> Yeah, of course. I think it's I think it's okay if it's done with and it sounds like an oxymoron but if it's done with to say I know the school has rule but we don't go to Florida but you know me and Abba feel that you know I don't know Ebie lives there right and and we and we haven't seen her in such a long time we're not going to talk about it and it's not you know I don't >> I don't think it's a ste you're great >> all the listeners I could go for the kill now or I could let him sort of go off to his his pasture Sure. I think we're going to let him go off. We're going to let him off the hook. But I can >> go go making a baloney because it's ridiculous. >> What's ridiculous? >> We have a lot of to the school, but we know better. So, we're doing what we want. Like, you're trying to like >> not know better. >> It's not know better. So, let me ask you this. You think that you have a if you sign up to a school to go >> Oh, you want my opinion? >> Yes. I want your Well, you're telling me that you have no You have no right. You have no right. I didn't say my opinion yet, but I say what you're saying is sounding really hard to swallow. >> No, no. I think I think it's okay for parents to have their own mahal. Again, I'm not talking about when a school has a rule that says, you know, have to be over a 10 in poseic for example, right? That's an is yeshiva your yeshiva rules and that's kind of run through the yeshiva and then you're going to finish at 11 o'clock and the kids are going to get in trouble. You know, I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about, you know, when there's a certain understanding and a certain That's the Florida rule. The Florida rule. I'm not saying what happens when the principal calls, but but but I don't like that rule. I think that rule doesn't make sense as a parent. I think it's wrong. Um I you know I think it's wrong. >> You're telling me it's good to do that? I don't know. I have a hard time. I'll tell you what I would do, but like I you know I I >> I'm listening. >> Okay. We you know lucky for you the show is over so I don't get to rub your face in this too much. >> Oh rub. >> Yeah. >> But this is what I would say. I would say I I I think it's a real challenge and I and as an act of I would bring the family or I would go to the to our RV our pose and discuss it with them. >> You do that every single time that the school >> how often does this come up? >> Let's see. Dress code outside of school vacations. is you're going to go to the rv when your daughter wants to when the school has a rule that there's a certain that you I don't know you're not allowed to wear shorts so let's say the easy one boys are now to wear shorts on when they play ball even outside yeshiva so you're going to go to the rv >> yeah I would go to my rebi and I'd say here's the story I would go with my son it's amazing >> so you just passing off okay so you're the rv say you're just passing off the you're passing the buck you're the >> happy parent I think a rv has the pas there are additional factors that you have to consider passing I ask >> you're this person's rv you're this person's love. What would you tell them? >> You know, it sounds like this is a in town issue. I don't live in town and I don't mean to I just don't know how it works. Like that's why I'm curious if you called the manal and asked him not about you but in general, what is the manal thinking? What what are you thinking when you make a rule that you know no one's going to follow? If the manal would basically say, "Yeah, I know no one follows it." You know, then that's different. And if the mouse says, "No, this is something we're very strict about and you know, I have to understand more about it." But I don't think telling a kid that just straight up we disagree with the school and we're going to do what we want. I don't know. That just does not work for me. Let's move on. >> Let's move on. >> Last question. >> All right. >> Last question. Okay. Um, biggest fan of the poda. Also, please congratulate Garfield on his upcoming book for me. This person does nominate. I don't know. an anonymous um plug for your book. When were you young? When >> what's the name of the book? >> When they were young. It's just just Art Scroll just put it on their website today. It was going to be released I just found out on June 11th. So that's in a week or so. So >> stories of Gdyla when they were young and amaz young, but not that they were geniuses. >> Real life inspiring stories that are hopefully relatable by our children. >> But this person has a question. It wasn't just a compliment. Um, and the question is, how do you think schools should handle being populist and responding to parent sentiment as opposed to standing up for the values that the school leaders have? >> That is the art of principal, my friend. >> Yeah. Welcome to the world. Welcome job. >> That is the art. >> And and I I just want to point out one thing about that that's very important is that Kinuk is it's more than a partnership. It's it's mostly parents a little bit school you know I think that and schools have to be very careful to stick about sticking it to the parents because it backfires because think about a situation where a child is at home and they hear the school's ridiculous they just made a policy you can't go to Orlando and they're a bunch of crazies and not that you were saying it that way but I'm saying imagine they and then they go into school and the same amal gets up and says horror is a horrible thing that child just heard that the Revy is out of touch or she was out of touch, the man is out of touch and this message is is is not meaningful to our family and how is that child supposed to distinguish between the two and that's why as a manal I'm very conscious about trying to avoid pressing buttons that will cause that level of dysfunction in the community. That doesn't mean you always are scared to do what's right. You have to balance it, right? But I'm trying to give another dimension to it so people understand the danger of like it's my way or the highway is that it really could undermine the greater influence that a school could have. Just putting it out there. >> Yeah. You know, we discussed this on our last um No, maybe we didn't. Yes, we did. We discussed this on our last um you know, podcast. >> The man >> about the manal about from what David Lieberman said. So I'm not going to re rehash his incredible anecdotes but I think the most important thing you need to learn as a manahel is the art of listening to parents not the art of agreeing with parents the art of listening to parents and I think you have a vision as a manal or as a rebby you have a vision of how you want your classroom to work you have a vision of how you want your school to work and that is your job that's your that's your responsibility is to carry out that vision and because there are a few parents that whatever it is or even the ones that's upset about this and that and the other to to gave to them is is totally reneging on your your job as the art of listening to parents through it's a complaint about a rebi it's a complaint about a classmate it's a complaint about a school rule you know about dress code about bar mitzvah anything there are things that you do that that others you won't agree with and all of that. When people feel heard, they do not get angry and they're much more receptive to allowing you to make a decision that they disagree with as long as you heard them. It's and this is what I'm saying I think is elementary to all um relationships. Um it's something that um you know it's it's a lifelong struggle in aa is to allow other people to be heard. But as a manal I think the biggest complaint that parents have macro big picture on schools that they don't care what we think right the manal make these rules and they don't care about us and they don't and I have called to them no one's home no one responds my son is having this issue and that issue and when manal are receptive and yes the larger the schools the more challenging it is um and that's why you have to have a really a layered system set up um you have a much larger school than than than we have so far in Manhattan. So you have your way of doing it and we have ours which is a mile of ours that were smaller in Manhattan. Um but it's it's all about the art of listening. So when you're standing up for the values that the school has versus the populist and parent sentiment, your school values and sometimes the parent sentiment is right and you'll change right sometimes you'll make changes based on parent sentiment. But if you give the parents the time of day, I think you'll be rewarded with the luxury of carrying out your vision. >> Wonderful. All right, Rabbi Shfeld, it's been a great season. We're going to be signing off. Can you believe it? What a great season we had. Some covered so many topics and really appreciate all the listeners who joined us tonight because, you know, as you know, this whole thing is based on you and your engagement. So we really appreciate it and wishing everyone a good a good a good Zimmer. Is that how you say it over there in >> P? That and and Pic. Yeah, we try we try to get all the Nudas right in Pek. Um but yes, this is Zimmer. >> We hope to be impactful. We definitely have fun. I want to thank again Mishbaka Magazine for uh hosting us and for making us sound good. Um have a wonderful summer. If you're in the east, more than welcome to stop by camp. >> Only coming on campus if I can have my phone in case I have to call my mother. All right. >> All right. All the best. >> All right. Take care. >> Thank you. >> Take care. Bye-bye. >> By the way, I was listening to the Manal podcast and someone said 27* 3 and you bang that out in like a second. Are you like a math person or what was that? >> Well, you're listening on two speed. So that's >> No, no, I was I was in retrosp. >> Yeah. You were like 81. I'm like, how do you know that? That took me a few. I'm like, what? Anyway, okay. >> 20 * 3 is six. >> Whatever. I don't even want to [music]