S2 Eps 10. Let's Talk Technology (feat. Rabbi Yossi Strickman)

Are you that parent that is there for the school or is only there only calls them an owl when when your daughter's teacher is not the one that you want >> to the parent? It's not coming from emotion. It's coming from like it could really change your child's experience. You know, there could be many factors that could really make a difference. Welcome to the learning curve podcast brought to you by Mishbaha magazine. >> We are raising children in a changing and challenging world. >> So let's tackle the important issues facing from families today. >> I am Rabbi Garfield Manal of Yeshiva Terrace Emis in Houston and I love talking about >> I am Rabbi Iris Shfeld Manala Katana of Manhattan base tipper of Manhattan and director of camp. I also love talking and sometimes fishing. Join us as we answer your questions and discuss the topics that matter to parents the most and welcome back to the learning curve. Onward we move as we continue on in season two. Very exciting. And now um that we've not only Rabbi Garfield are we a podcast, we're also in print >> ina. So this is a a very exciting the last couple of weeks um of print. So what can you not do Rabbi Garfield? No. Well, I will say that it's great the interaction with the people listening, people who send us, you know, their thoughts and ideas is a really nice part of it. And I'm so appreciative that Mishbaka put the written part because it's another way to engage and and these issues are not simple. You know, it's not like we're talking about things that are olive. They're all nuanced, you know, and they require discussion, reflection, and it's a great platform for us to really explore that and hopefully engage others in the conversation. >> Now, can I stay over the story? you let me know of what a small world it is. I won't give away too many details. What a small world it is. What what the podcast has done. >> Go for it. >> I guess it's good for you listening because only help, right? So I I made a phone call to Eric to speak to someone about something about to a uh a certain mechanic and he picked up the phone and I was introducing myself. My name is Irish Shfeld and he said from the learning curve, a person I never spoke to before. So I said, "Wow, whoa, not bad. and he said it popped up onto my hope with 246 I don't know device um recently so I heard you and and one second so you know you're a Garfield >> I said yeah there was it was a sh question about someone >> in your family so here I am he's like oh my gosh I have I need from so um the Garfield are wonderful people and hashem people seem to be responding to us so away in which we go two short questions and the spotlight light topic. You go first. You You can ask first. Go. >> All right. Here goes the question. Dear TLC, I appreciate your interview with YC Strickman. It was very eye opening. That was the second episode of season 2. Here's our dilemma. Our son got a handheld game device for his bar mitzvah from his aunt and uncle. We were not thrilled at all, but decided to let him keep it on the condition that it is completely filtered. nothing other than the games we approve of and it had to be locked by tag. Our son is furious with us. He keeps saying you don't trust me. You don't believe me that I wouldn't misuse it. Without pulling the we are the adults card. What is the best way to handle this? By the way, I got a Game Boy from my bar mitzvah when I was 13. The first Game Boy that came out. It was the best gift hours ago. >> I I remember the game boy. I won a game boy in like a talent show and then remember when you were dropping on the floor all of a sudden you'd have that line >> line. Right. Right. Okay. >> I think my cousin my sisters might correct me. I think my cousin she's like uh big mas today. I don't know. EJ or one of the big schools. I don't know which ones. I'm probably saying it wrong. I think she dropped the game boy down the step. Oh wow. And the line and then on the Mario what? Anyways the Mario brothers mushroom. You can't see it. Fine. Anyways, so here's here's a story that I actually was a part of and everything is easier said than done. But here's what happened. So I was learning a bunch of years ago with a seventh grader and this exactly happened. His mother calls me up. I don't he got something for his bitzvah and they demanded that he filter it and lock it. And he went crazy on them. wasn't talking to his mother like how dare you not trust me you know like like he he pulled the trust card so she says she says to me what should I do about it how do I respond so I said Mrs. Goldstein, let's call her that. I learn with you son Monday night. I'm going to come home tonight. I'm going to give it I'm going to give it a shot. Say this boy is 12. I walk into the into the um house Monday night. We used we learned Mcklas McGill. He was in my neighborhood. I sat down. I looked at him and I said, "Oh, Yankee. Oh gosh, I forgot my GMAR at home. Forgot my Gamar home. What should I do?" And I said, "You know, I'm so tired." I took out my car keys and I flipped it to him and I said, "I really I don't feel Can you do me a favor? Could you drive to my house? My door's open. No one's home. It's on a live. It's on the dining room table. Combination is one and two, whatever, right? Can you go get my Gamarra for me? I'll be I'll wait here for you." And he looks at me and he's like, "Rebi, are you serious?" So I said, "Yeah, I trust you." Yeah, sure. I just It's on my It's It's You know where it is? My dining table. So he says, "Okay." I'm like, "Oh my gosh." He gets true story. He gets out of the chair. He leaves his house and I am shvitzing. If this kid has the to drive that car, he gets into my car and like most of us has to move the seat back. Fine. He gets into my car and he turns on the engine and I am saying to Hillim and I am absolutely petrified. And then Baroo Hashem, he turned off the engine and he walks back inside the house. And I said, "Yanke, where's my Gamarra?" And he says, "Rebi, what are you talking about? I can't drive." I said, "Why not? I trust you." He said, "Rebi, I'm 13. I can't drive." So I said, "Yanke, do you know what would have happened if you would have driven the car and crashed into a tree? The cops would have come and they would have arrested me, not you. What do you mean? You're 13. Why can't I trust it? Cuz you're 13. And 13-year-old kids can't drink alcohol. And 13-year-old kids, even though they're wonderful, can't vote. And 13-year-old kids can't drive a car. And 13-year-old kids can't use a computer without a filter. That was the I mean, he got a filter. I can't tell you the end of you know what what happened if you I don't know the end of the story but but I I I to me we have to change like don't don't allow the kids to just define the narrative it's nothing about trust right it's it's this is the responsible way I wear a seatelt when I get in a car I don't trust that I'm going to drive right I I think kids want to be treated like adults so fast and so much that any time we try to pull anything back from them. They they fight back. The same way you can't drive a car, you cannot use any technology without proper filters. That that was my experience with this type. >> And certainly if the parents do that themselves, it helps the argument. If they if they know that the parents or the house has a filter like all parents should have and all houses that then it's a much easier argument to say, listen, we have filters. Our school, our whole house has filters. Who knows? >> Levels. What do you mean? But you don't have a phone. Why can't I have a phone? You have texting. Can I have texting? These type of conversations, the >> idea of a filter necessarily. >> Right. Right. But yes. Um but and and and hopefully an eighth grader is immature enough not to even understand the ty or the need for a failure. It's like what? I'm a good kid. >> Right. >> Well, why why what what are you afraid of? But I think that's how um one way to reframe. >> Yeah. I wonder if we could explain to the child also that people sometimes by accident stuff happens. It's not like we're thinking you're going to go out and and look for something inappropriate, but there's the way that advertising works is, you know, they identify the demographic. They know what a 13-year-old boy may or may not click on, and they da provide opportunities to exploit that. I mean, it's like it's not like almost an accident. They're trying on purpose to exploit you. So, the only way to defend yourself, even if you're not trying to do that, is by that. And there's probably things you could show about that that would educate the child. Not from a firm perspective per se, but just how advertising algorithms work and how gaming systems take advantage of that. >> You're getting sophisticated with the kid. You're like showing him >> how to try to Yeah. >> Again, the the less you make it about being him >> and more about just a general policy will apply to anybody like do you realize what they're trying to do to you? how they want to take that you're the product. You know, they always say in any um anytime that you don't have to pay for a product, you are the payment. It's you. >> Right. Right. Right. You know, and this challenge is not just someone whose aunt Sally buys him, you know, a Game Boy, right? Or a Game Gear. But um it's it's any watch and any camera today, >> right? is we as we heard from you actually a couple of episodes ago but my >> you know I had a yeshiva who who came in with a watch I'm like whoa what is that and the answer is he wanted to count his steps but you press a button and it's doesn't only count steps right so this is something that that I >> I had an incident with one of my kids who's much older now but back when they were younger and we were exploring this topic I said listen I'm happy to have the conversation with you but oh you have to read this book first and I gave her the book I think it's called the eye generation I forgot it's a it's one of the books that describes how smartphones and technology has influenced the generation. Nothing to do with from it's not a from thing. It's a mental health related thing. I said you read this book, okay, and then we'll talk. And so, okay, she read the book and it changed the whole conversation because it wasn't like me trying to preach anything. It was like she read the book on it, >> you know? >> Right. That that's that's more of a mature, I think, sophisticated teaching moment. >> Yeah. >> Right. I'd like to think that most eighth graders could handle that, but you're, you know, you have to adapt it to the right age. So, >> question number two, a kindly question as we're approaching the Yumpt of Pesak. And here it goes. As a mother of MFA and BMED age boys, when it comes to Bayhaz Manim and Arab Yamiff, how much can we fairly demand or even expect our children to help? The boys just finished a winter's man and want a well-deserved break. But specifically for Pesak the preparation is so integral to the Y plus I need their help. So this challenge which and again Barashem I have such age boys. So this is a challenge that we all smile at or mothers frown at of balancing your bay manim you know yeshiva bakar who wants to chill and then learn for a seder and then play basketball and go on a trip and you're shvitzing in the kitchen and you almost find that maybe mother's complaining that this isn't this a steer to this man what they learned in this man so what do they do in Houston Rabbi Garfield >> well I don't want to speak for Houston but I could speak more generally and say that I think the time when this conversation and this reflection has to take pa place for a parent is not when the child is 21 and back from yeshiva. This starts when the child is seven and four and nine and 11 and 14 because it's about the attitude and relationship between parents and child. If the relationship is one of a transactional power relationship, then your position is going to be limited at that point because everyone knows as children get older, your power just gets lower and lower and lower. >> Yep. >> I think you even referenced uh this book in the article that you wrote so eloquently about Yakobson Spare the Child in which he talks about that, right? the power control versus influence and like this is a good example where you know what's the mindset of a child at that age about your relationship and the expectations of each other. So if since the child was young, you engage them in conversation, a mature dialogue about your needs, their needs, and and there's a sensitivity that you have to them and they have to you, then it would be very appropriate for a child who comes home free on you sit them down and you say, "Listen, I'm so happy you're home and I know you need to relax and I respect that and we have a lot to do and I'm wondering what role you feel comfortable or how could we work together so that you know you could help the burden And if it's a child who knows you love them and you've been there for them and you do what you can for them, of course they'll react and say, "This is what I could do and this is what I and it's not a fight. It's a collaborative thing." The the more common way that it's handled, unfortunately, is that when the kid was young, they leveraged their allowance or they um they said you could only go to sleep, you could stay up late if you clean up. I mean, all this leveraging, all this or they screamed at them or whatever. And so you could do that, you know, fine, they got the job done. But then when they no longer could do that because they're 20 years old and they know that you really have nothing on them, well then you got nothing on them and they're not going to help you. So, so that's my my real reaction is that the time to consider this question is not when the child comes home from yeshiva and has made his mind and at that point it might be hard to change it. Although you could always work on the relationship, but really for parents when they're younger to think about how they get things to get done and how to create a culture in your family where we help each other the best we can when we can. And if we can't, we can't, but we try to help each other. when I was in I think 11th grade maybe 12th grade my years of a smuggler so so I my my parents wanted to go on a trip and I had and I didn't want to go and I made a deal with my parents you know what let's call Roberts who was Roberts so to me it was like I couldn't believe they caved you oh my revi right it was fine and they agreed so I called up Rabbi Roberts And I said to him, I must have not been in 11th grade because if I knew him already, it means I was in 12th grade or first Spanish. And I told him the dilemma. Here I am. I'm whatever it is, right? And my parents want to go to apple picking some. I don't even know if it's right. One of the I was I was in I was in total command of of the whole narrative. And he says to me and he obviously made enough of an impact because here I am repeating it. He said, "You're a king, so it's hard for you to appreciate this, but there is nothing more important in life than family. Your friends will come and go, you know, friends are incredible, but your family as you get older will be there for you." and the whole you are working on yourself is a time for you to work on the kesh with the family doesn't mean not to learn if if you're holding there but when you have an opportunity to spend time with your family besmanim this is much more important than your two o'clock in the afternoon seder that's not the aid of benzman I'll just share another story to my head an amazing misa of a friend of mine And this really speaks to this. A friend of mine who's now 11th grade rebi in Scranton I think Schwarz. So his brother was getting married in middle man by Raasher and he went to Rabasher and he said to Raasher like I'm going back in middle man right what what should I learn? And I'm going back for a week, my brother's ko and he was like trying to be like really from an errands and he's like um which which should I spend time on in America? So turned to him and he said to him with a with a he said you're gonna go home your parents don't see you ever it's going to be four days till the it's going to be tense it's going to be suits you're avoid and he said the zela abaya and rava I'll translate I'll say now in English the same abay and rava that tell you to open the garra 24 hours a day sometimes tell you to close the gar and he said your sug is you're going home your parents never see you it's middle it's tense that's your and it and coming from who's you know to us the no no one's more than right it it was it's it's a it's a reframing that I'm not asking you to give up on your manim I'm not asking you right I'm asking you to this is your aliyah this is your staging of mamm and yes they need breaks and they want to go on trips and all we could deal with those other challenges um but as you said it's about that relationship and if if mommy and abba are important to the kid then helping clean the car right or helping whatever it is shopping and driving however it is is and and cleaning the house if it if it's not transactional then it's real that that then it becomes meaningful >> right 100% % >> and just to add one more thing about PES because the question is specifically about PES. It's an opportunity and again it depends how you grew up whether you're home for PES away for Pesak. Um but if you can create that vibe to use a new word right of where there are certain things that are exciting to do for Pesak is the the grinding of the Mr. and and you know whe however it is that that your family gets ready for PES. If you could make the the hakana for pesak part of the family lore misra you know all those men hug him that we >> does that work on 20 year olds >> no probably not I mean it works on eight-year-olds >> yeah but we're talking about we're talking about bucker back from >> yes right yeah okay so we have to work on eight-y olds also yeah but you're right yeah you know the girl the high school girl is a little bit stuck in this conversation because they give off extra for high school girls so that they could help. That's like the so they have a harder time getting >> here at school. We go a little longer in Chabas than they do in the north. You know, we have school over till 2:00 and a lot of places they're off at 12. So years ago, a girl came to me. She wants to help at home. She So I said like this, okay, for the next month if you help at home for an hour from the time you're off, come back to me on old talk, you know, like actually go and help and then you'll come back and we'll have a conversation. You know, suffice it to say, she never came back for uh >> I don't want to get him in trouble, but one of my own boys like he wanted to clean our car and he said he couldn't. Why? Cuz he's cleaning cars today for for making money. So, if we pay him 60 bucks maybe in our car, you know, >> meanwhile, he's using your materials and you're, you know, you're paying the rent and all the expenses of his business, you know, like come on, man. Okay, let's move on to the next topic, which is a very sensitive one and causes a lot of emotion for a lot of the people involved. So, I think it's something to deal with delicately. I can say thankfully that right now there's no uh specific case in my school that this relates to as of the recording of this episode. So, it's not a specific issue, but I definitely know that this could bring out a lot of emotion. So I will read the question and we'll take it from there and then we'll of course introduce our esteemed guest. Dear TLC, it's almost that time of year again. I have children of all ages in a large yeshiva with parallel classes and every year it's the same battle. The school administrations thinks they know better than we the parents about where to place my kids. It's almost as if our opinion about teachers, groups, and friends and other factors just fall on deaf ears. So, I'm asking if maybe you from the inside can give me advice on how to better partner with my school so that my opinion and thoughts about what's best for my child will actually be taken seriously. >> Are we allowed to give away state secrets? I don't know if we're allowed to do that. She's asking from the inside. Uh, whoa. >> Do you have parallels yet? You don't have parallels yet, do you? So this actual question I don't think yet as of this recording me and you have you know Kane you're I we don't have parallel classes by us and um you don't have parallel classes I don't think right >> we actually do first through fourth we have two boys classes >> beautiful um so ob the guest that we bring the guest that we bring on you know probably is >> seven or eight or something >> yeah and is the like the the ro is like the nussy of dealing with parallel classes bendit But um so I I can't speak to the actual parallel class scenario because I don't have parallel classes in ar yeshiva but big picture I think right it takes two to tango the word is partner the word is you know as you said it doesn't start when when your son's 20 right it also doesn't start when you want to switch your daughter's class into the mower that you don't like or whatever it is >> that partnership goes both ways And you know, I I want to hear more from Bender about all the different layers that go into these decisions. Um, but it's really it's a challenge that we have, but it's really about are you that parent that is there for the school or is only there only calls them an owl when when your daughter's teacher is not the one that you want. >> Yeah. I mean I think also understandably this is a very emotionally driven it's not emotional is the wrong word because to the parent it's not it's not coming from emotion it's coming from like it could really change your child's experience you know there could be many there could be factors that could really make a difference and um so I understand why parents you know have such strong feelings >> so it's now our pleasure to welcome to the program to discuss this further Ram Misha Bender Ray Bender is the scan shashiva in terra Oh, a man that to most people needs no introduction, but we'll introduce him anyways for the last 20 years has been really together with his father, Bakabashita. Um, running one of the most illustrious yeshivas from preschool all the way through Kyle. Um, you know, really a a standard in the yeshiva world. And I can attest to this because I do spend the summers together with with Bender in camp. And this suga of parallel classes and dealing with parents challenges. This is like you know bender goes into hiding and you know like a bear hibernates and tries to come out three weeks later with some sort of I don't know magical potion or this I don't know. Welcome, welcome. You know, this question is about uh placement of class, but it really speaks to the greater relationship, which is really what we're getting at. You know, not only about this issue per se, but the broader relationship between Anhulla and parents and a sense of collaboration, which this is like the ultimate test of. You know, >> the mother who's writing this email basically says that every year whenever I want to go to the school and I have opinions about where my daughter should be or my son should be, um I get ignored. So, as you said, from the inside, give me the inside scoop. What can I do to be a better uh I don't know, advocate to get the yeshivas, you know, listening to me more. So, before you you you you discuss if could you give us a little bit of a uh the Coca-Cola secret ingredient of how I mean, how the size of your yeshiva of the parallel classes and how you managed to pull off what you do. >> Um, okay. Um so first of we try very hard you need a lot of Isra whether it's in Houston or Manhattan it doesn't really make a difference where you are located and you you dive in the morning that you should say the right things and don't don't say anything insensitive to a revi a teacher or a parent for that matter like I dive into the show this morning and I met a guy I didn't want to meet oh you know I'm not happy in my dorm room like it happens whatever you know so that like that started a day off, you know, but most people I don't have a problem meeting in sh um if you if you have someone which you have a problem with, you should just leave by leno leave by before before lena's over you head to the exits and then you jump into your car. But no on a serious note most of the parents like this mean well and the really I think the sight of all this is really getting to know the parents well mention a little bit if you understand the parents from the day they walk into yeshiva the first time they come for an interview and you get to understand them a lot of the disconnect will go away now I don't know where this lady's writing from which calls unfortunately some schools don't like to have they they keep a distance with the parents I try not everybody does this nisha to have an open relationship with the parents and I try to put myself in the shoe of a parent when a parent calls for a change. >> How many families do you have? How many families are you? >> About 1,400 families. >> 300 families. >> Yeah, >> that's a lot of families to have relationships with. >> Yes, I have a lot of them. I I definitely have a good chunk of these sheep I have relationship with. And even on one that's could be a heavy duty one like a disgruntled sometimes. But if you work with them and you try to show them that you're on the same team, eventually you could win. You could win almost everybody. And this that's that's the way I find it. Then you do as much as you could before the year starts. I could you spend your August tell your wife to go on vacation, but spend your August setting it up. Do it right. You'll have a much more calmer year. >> Have Have you evolved over the years? You you've been in Da for 20 years. Is it the same thing? I mean basically just how do you do the same thing as it gets so much bigger like how do you keep track of everything? >> Yeah. So we have principles different levels but you really have to have a balanced you have to have a very important what's priority top but second I try to for example one of the things I do in D is I prepare every single class in second grade through 8th grade it takes a while it takes about 45 >> how many parallels are now >> there are eight parallels classes >> so >> so that's >> so far I >> like today today example I today I had a class of sixth grade parac maf sixth grade class I spent 45 minutes in the class. A real thorough for her. I'm going to call now the top 20 boys parents in the class. No to tell them how they did. That's >> so if you don't get a call from a bed bender, that means that you know that you're th >> So now those phone calls are gold. Those phone calls. You get a phone. You you call a parent during the day, they will drop everything they're doing. The first thing they say is, "Is everything all right?" >> I said, "Everything fine for fine." after my father taught us that because people pass out when they get a call from yes during the day >> but but when you call them in the day they they they're a flying high and they talk they say you make the yeshiva feel that it's small they care you have to do things throughout the year to really stay in touch with them and then when they call it it just makes the job easier so it's very hard to prioritize the job is very hard always emergencies always always need things coming up >> one of the challenges that I think goes both ways face, right? When you're an out of town yesa like in Houston or even in Manhattan where we're one parallel. So there's no thought to mixing or matching the more yeshivish the less yeshivish the more right. So when you're obviously there's a range is this I don't know if it's from your father or is there a misra in this of how do you decide because there are mileas in in having the yeshivish and the non-hibish be together then of course some of the sheibish want their own um and some of you know there's different communities what is there like a a shittita about how you like the the rubric of how you split up a class >> so before I got here it used to be more mixed we said two or three parallels but I have the world turn more let's say more right that's for lack of a better word we realize that if you don't take care of your right constituency you're not going to have yeshida and you just you don't just lose out from your right wingless bane and kyo you lose out a good balant family says if they'reing learning two hours more two hours a night they want to be with those right-wing families so we had no choice if it's a business decision also that you have to now we allow anybody into our class if someone lives in wood or or or anyone or a Ullet or Inwood and they're people we're not opposed to putting them in the class of what you're bam's class it doesn't mean as long as you're an Ara family and you know what we a person has to respect someone who has in doesn't have internet at home or very carefully filtered and some people don't understand that I said I don't have to put my kid in your class where you have where your kids are exposed to everything you want so and if you don't like it it's Not we don't say lump it but you know there other classes that don't care. There are eight classes there are one or two classes that are not as mockpit of what their kids have access to. So most of them parents are good to you see a difference in how much they cover over the over this man meaning it's not an intelligence thing. So you could theoretically have very smart kids who are in a more exposed house and less intelligent kids in a more shivisha house. It's going to So I just wonder like in the end of the day does everyone cover the same material or do you find >> the end of the day most everybody's within the same range but the boys who in a more driven class and have parents that really work with them you see a difference in that kid there's nothing to talk about >> in learning >> in learning in learning and they have the whole the whole room it's a different it's a different house >> so that that itself is a huge statement to parents like do look at what happens you can make a decision what parent wouldn't want to I I don't want uh you know condemn anybody but if you if you tell me you could make a choice there are eight classes and they're they're ranked based on certain factors but the messa the higher ranked you are the more stiging your kids going to do the more excited he's going to be about yish the the more he's going to love learning doing how could you not go for gold >> because some of the parents today some of them not everybody you know they start waking up in seventh grade when the kids they realize the kids got to go to high schools and they never really won so much they had Good morning. >> Doesn't that set up This is where like an email like this that we got is literally tense cuz here you have a mother. Well, let's say it's sixth grade, right? Whatever age is. And she uh whatever neighborhood orever she's from, she wants her son in the gold class and and she believes he's gold and she believes her family is gold and everything is gold. And you have a different opinion that you you're talking about personal like, "No, Mr. So and so your your family is not this, your son is not this, and therefore you can't go into the Rebi class. How does that not lead? >> Yeah, that must be very uncomfortable. It's usually most parents are honest with what they are. That's why I don't work da 25. If a good family wants to come into a class of 25, we let them in. So we would go, I don't mind saying it, we'll go to 3031. We have class that are 31 and class that are 19 due to this reason because I want to be in that class. I want to be like Greg Garfield say like you're saying I want to be in such a class like that and it's not fair why should they you have to look at yourself if you move to town would you want to be in a class of all let's say have televisions and have internet or in a class so so I'm not so makmed under 29 or 30 and 32 we try to stop 30 31 we have gone to >> you have wow that's big so you'll have a class with 30 and a class of 19 in the same grade >> the same grade it's not ideal >> the gold standard everyone want to word you one the the the starker classes are the bigger ones >> you usually they're bigger because more people want to be like you're saying if you have a chance to go to such a class most of the parent body I would say 76% wants to have their kids around such >> and is it the same rebby like if I'm a rebby do I get I get into a certain lane >> yeah it's usually a certain lane sometimes those were older they're more right wing let's say I wonder just from an academic a learning perspective and and this isn't a practical question just a thought is if I was grouping kids and not worried about the social emotional impact. I would think that grouping them in academic level would be a better more impactful way to group them. I don't know like if you take all the smart kids we did that for many years. Seventh grade we used to track. >> You have kids who could read Gumar flally and some kids can't read. >> So I had him teach the same kid. That went on for many years until the parents said I'm not going to a gimbal share in seventh grade. It's not happening. They they pulled up here. They blocked my office. They pulled up to my father's house. They said, "We're not putting because >> but the Arab kids didn't threaten to leave because now you have Gimmel kids in the class." >> But you're not you're not speaking Marshall. Now, how'd you deal with that? So, exactly. How how do you deal with that? >> We stopped fighting. We stopped fighting. A kid was not going to hurt other kids and he's parked in a class that's above him and he doesn't hurt anybody. I stop fighting. >> So, basically, you're telling parents that if they bully Bender enough, they'll get what they want. >> Correct. Correct. I'm not fighting with you. If it's not going to if your kids a bully you're not going to be in that class but if he doesn't and again I asked this channel to now this good question I have to be very close to him and he guides me and he guides a lot of the major sh so I asked this question if a boy wants to be in the strongest and he's not holding by the shar are we allowed to keep him there he said to him like this do the do the olive boys care do the strong boys care if he's there said they don't care if he's a nice kid he said if he doesn't stare you have no right to kick him out. So I got the sak from my so >> even though it's even though it might not be the best place for him. >> Correct. Because if because according to the parents we're doing the wrong thing and the kid doesn't want to be there. That's that's part to me that's part of you can fight with a parent. >> So this is interesting because you're not really doing an olive shear in academics. It's an olive shear in Ashkafa. A mullet was an olive shear in academics but today in D it's not right. through eighth grade. It's spacey on which neighborhood you're in and what type of as you said it's it's the class is made up of dash. There are people for example there's a woodmare class of 25 kids. There are five woodmir kids that come every year and say I don't want to be in only woodmar put me in a fat class. The people that live in inwood don't put me in only inwood put me in this type of class. So we have that. >> Does that create any in the yeshiva like a rockaway verse? >> Yeah like color war. Or it could be like a burrow or something. >> Good question. It does sometimes it does create the yeshiv. It goes both ways. >> That is a a wow. A complicated yeshiva that you run in terms of keeping the parents happy, finding the right lanes and then having boys in the same yeshiva. They're all d boys and this is not just any big yeshiva. The lake I'm sure has the same thing. >> I think they keep their kids. You're in the class. You stay there right through the end. >> What does that mean? They don't change classes at all. >> They don't change. >> Other than placement, what advice would you give a parent, you know, to ingratiate themselves to be able to influence the yeshiva, not you per se, but in general, the the monoly and your experience like they should write some nice things also. They should show that they're not cranky fetchy. Call the re write an email to the principal, nice email to the any man whoever affects write offer services for a woman's legal friend. do something to show that you're a men person. You're not just the oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh no no he's calling she's calling we don't deal with her you know >> does your father your uncle bender need to deal with with this anymore or not >> I I've really taken m I really I try to make his life easier have to deal with all these mundane >> I imagine he did this for for for years many years and actually one year when I early years here about 18 years ago a after sukus two classes were totally not working he switched the classes after sukus he did a complete uh because it got so bad but He had he dealt with this and in a way it was harder for him I would say because they only had two or three option like you were saying when you're small yeshiva many option now I I try to put I I'm a big fan like you have eight classes just like you know move here move here move here you know it just makes it >> do you ever happen I don't want to get too personal but that there would be a rebby that just people for whatever reason don't want and you're you're doing a lot of damage control and trying to protect his image but Lisa you know no one wants to go to that >> you do You take a very strong parent body and you give them a very good to like like such a rebi. So then the parent body will look away from having such a reb because they have such a good clientele next to them. >> How do you deal with skipping? Whose decision is that when it comes to skipping? If a parent wants to skip a child, is that their choice? >> It's their choice. But the principle we don't skip too much. It's not common. I find again I'm not around that long. I'm not I'm not as old as some of some Nom in the country. I find of the 10 kids who I know skipped the I would say five out of 10 didn't work out it doesn't work socially it ends up catching up with them they're not taken in with the looked upon and sometimes it catches up much later in life so doesn't know it's not I've had the same experience here most of the time I would say seven out of 10 almost or eight even it just long term you have to take 20 year you know 10 years they go off to seminary they go off >> the only thing is when are small, right? Like by us when you're such a small yeshiva. Um so then sometimes if if all his friends in his apartment building are in a grade older than him. So then that's where the social reason may be. >> Yeah. That's in a small yeshiva if you have nine kids in the class or and one has let's say 12. So you might have to do create something. Yeah. I hear you. But we we we try to discourage it. >> Is there a situation where you would say to a parent, you know, we can't really service you here? Not because of special needs, just because of like an expectation that you do something for them or like you get you get like red flags and you say like you know why don't you go over to the yeshiva katana in Manhattan I think that'll be a better fit for your family. You know my father has told us that as much as you get it from him never say like basically um if you don't like it go find he tries to avoid us talking that way that we do for the mo most for most cases we don't say that but I could say we're very proud that nobody leaves the yeshiva so it's it's a good sign on yeshiva with 200 kids level or 180 or 210 level or 190 it's no one >> I have a lot of friends who I have a lot of friends who are obeying And I speak to them often and and I hope one day I'm on the here four years in Manhattan that I can have that love their Arab Yeshiva as much as the reb it's like they love the place they you know my friends right they're all they're all >> what do you attribute that to >> I think it comes from my father he's he made the yeshiva a way that it's a very happy yeshiva it's not it doesn't micromanage the bayam which it could be sometimes you know the bame have a lot of space a lot of space I mean a whatever sometimes and I'm saying it some yeshivas they're very scared to walk in the late five minutes they were scared to have an extra off day he would like to accommodate the people that's the study of the yeshiva accommodate their baby >> saying parents parents and it's a it's a pervasive attitude right >> you have that in the walls and it's the and that really filtered down to every part of the shiva >> you don't you're not afraid of getting Like if if a parent pushes his way enough, he'll get the class he wants and the reb he wants. How do you maintain that authority? >> Yeah. But doesn't it usually stops right there? Some of them disappear for a year. Some parents they're they're out they're like out to lunch. They just want that social factor to be there or to be there and it doesn't they don't get anything out. just want to be in certain classes certain obey and that's that doesn't and we've had some tough I've told some parents with a lot of money coming and and they demand certain things and sometimes we don't back down we don't always give in my parent wants to be sometimes that my father this he put his foot down we don't like the English teacher could you be here in the morning and be there in the afternoon my father said no more he he put his foot down this year but they said the teacher is not good you know the much better than teachers teacher supply is impossible I'm a little soft on it. My father helped not. So of course I'm butler asked him and he said >> people passing you by and saying you know if you say no I'm just going to go to your father. >> There's no question that it happens in yeshiva that you know I always say it's a man of a big yeshiva like in case you don't like me or somebody else like this principle you're not stuck with that for 10 years you know it's a big yeshiva so you definitely you have that sometimes but that's that comes with the price of a big yeshiva. I know you guys are doing a lot of construction. Very exciting, right? What are you building now? >> Yeah, we want to take in all the Houston boys that apply. >> Um, we're building a new dormatory. We have six houses that are not really adequate anymore, crowded. And we're building a state-of-the-art dormitories. >> Is it include ninth grade? Because I know in the past, >> if we have a new dormatory, we're definitely able to take some boys from We have a boy this year from from Shivan. His name is uh gold Freddy gold a great boy or misha is doing doing amazing I think he stays by his family but when there's a nice >> by his family right right >> a nice dormatory will will make >> when's it going to be ready >> we hope uh about a year from now >> that'd be amazing >> amazing >> okay wonderful >> well thank you so much this is great to hear an insight into into you and to know that you and I'll tell you I think many of uh school leaders are scared to be so accommodated because of the potential challenges. But to know that a school of your size and your history is able to have that attitude and don't regret it. You know, you're proud of it and you're you're willing to share it with us, that's very empowering to us that we don't have to be as scared because, you know, we also could pull it off. >> Yeah. But, you know, sometimes I have karat because the classes it takes so it's all night. It's all night. It's 2 3 4 a.m. because they don't call you that time. I but I text people then and but you know what in the end of the day it's just nice that they feel like they were heard they had a chance to be heard and don't be scared jump in and have a good wife that lets you give up these crazy hours for you Shiva >> right I did hear that you have an exceptional intellectual memory and ability to manage thousand kids and know what's what it's I don't know if everyone could do that but uh Hashem should give you the brah to have the you need for your job >> but Thank you. But I want to say even though I do have to have memory, but I do write everything down. You can know anybody knows I live with my index cards. I don't you have to write things down. You have to you sit by a meeting. You have to take notes by meeting. I every principal thing I sit at, I take notes and I write everything up afterwards. I don't take anything for granted because you need a paper trail and it's it'll keep it'll help you very much for the long run. >> Okay. Wonderful. All right. Thank you so much. All right, that was really wonderful and it really speaks to a whole culture that Dar is known for of trying to work with people. I I know they have that attitude about finances. They have that attitude about placement. They have that attitude about the way they treat the re and so it's it's really refreshing and wonderful to hear and to hear that the generation that Ry Benders Shita Dashiva's attitude is is continuing through his son Misha. >> Right. And there there really are different yeshivas with different styles, you know, but that style of D, it takes, as you were telling the Rabb Rabb, it takes a certain security and confidence that I'm going to be accommodating and not get run over, >> right? And not get controlled. But so it takes big people. Yakon Bender and Ramosh Bender are are impressive people in their acumen in their ability to multitask in the operation that they run. So you set up for success and there's other very large yeshivas um that that are very successful but every yeshiva has their own flavor but what we the takeaway is if you're a d parent yes you can get your kid to the class that you want that's I don't know how that's going to help for the YSV or the the or the any other the larger yeshivas that have parallels. I'd like to say something like, you know, and being fully honest, you know, I've had situations where parents will want something that I just know is wrong for them. And it it puts you as a manal in such a difficult position where let's say a a child wants to skip. Let's say as an example, I'm just making it up. And you know, you know, because you've been doing this for a long time and you know that it's bad for them. And it sounds to me like D would just say okay. And you know, I'm not sure that that sits so well with me. I don't know. You know, >> I the one thing that I like to do to parents when I talk to them about these type of sensitive topics is it's not me verse you, it's us. It's never I think that yes, it's you know, I'm doing this because I think your son will for you a long time. >> Yeah. But what in the end they disagree? In the end of the day, they say I hear you. you know that they usually won't because you have a lot more information about the class dynamic about the friend that they really want him with or her with that really she shouldn't be with about the teacher I've had in yeshiva p which is another large yeshiva I once had I wanted my my sons not to be with a certain rebi because I held it was just not a good fit for my son and I called up the manal and he said to me and we had a great relation he said to me trust me I know what you're concerned about I know this rebi for 15 years. He's a good shak for your son. Now, I g I I I said, "Okay." And he was spot on. So, I I think if you have that rapport with parents and you're there to the not that I think you're wrong, trust me on this. I like to empathize and validate and all the wonderful words and but tell them I'm on your side. If you're a principal and I'm an a leader that they respect, I think usually the parents will will defer. >> And when they don't, >> that's a good question. Yeah, it's a really hard one. It's a really hard one because you end up >> that's why in my yeshiva we don't have parallel classes but >> it comes up in other areas and other things. So listen ber doesn't happen that often but when it does it's a real heart-wrencher for me because you know you're you're you're in a position and there there gets to a point where the parents just don't want to hear you about the issue. They're they won't listen to the data. They won't respect what you have to say. They don't even hear it, you know. >> Yes. But I do think that 95% of the time if the parents are fighting the yeshiva, it's because the parent doesn't think the yeshiva has the best interest of their child at heart. >> Okay. Could be. And it could be that uh either they have a bigger global reason they can't switch the kid, which is another thing. >> Like if you have two parallels, right, which is what we have like one parallel, I guess, two classes, >> right? >> I don't know how you say that. What's the grammar on that? Is it two parallels or one parallel? >> Well, I'm assuming you're not going to just ask Chachi. They'll tell you. if you have one parallel class, so you know, and three kids want to move, so it could turn off the whole thing. You have 18 and 18 and then you have 21 and 15, it could ruin it. So like sometimes you even though for that kid it might be better, but you can't. You just can't. >> Yep. >> So, you know, there are factors that it sounds like he's okay with 32, 33 in one class and 18 or >> but you know, I don't know in a in a situation like ours, it's a little harder. But um the truth is until now all of our parallels were the same rebby. It was a question of morning and afternoon. Starting next year, we're going to have different rebellion. Um, so that will be a new right a new a new area of challenge for us as the show. >> Okay. This was wonderful as always. >> Yes. Yes. And we always like to remind our listeners how interested we are in their comments, their questions, especially perhaps topic suggestions. And you could send an email to the learning curve mishbah.com. That's one word the learning curve at mashbah.com. >> This was wonderful. Colto, >> all the best.