Rejuvenation Video Special: The Dazzling Diversity of the Diaspora

[Music] hi everybody eve herrera rejuvenation on the land of israel network fifth night of hanukkah 57 81 14th of december the very end of the 14th of december 2020 and i am so delighted to have what we're zooming so if you guys are what you can be watching this you can be listening to this whatever you want to do with anita henroth rothstein just asked why you never just made henstein or whatever um finally finally finally back in freezing cold sweden uh after yeah so journalist um israel advocate constant seek probably the most curious person maybe that i've ever met many person we were lima together uh in the uk i don't know if it was two years running or just one year i was there 2017 2018. we were definitely there together in 18. um yeah we were yeah we were i had well i remember one very fun evening with a whole lot of us hanging out together and like the worst food on the planet even for the brits it was bad but yeah it was pretty bad it was pretty bad but it's great to see you again and uh really very excited about the book that you put out a few months ago called exile so uh maybe just tell my listeners who might not have heard of you yet which we're rectifying right now a little bit about your back a little bit about your background um sweden like you know you were raising sweden you moved to sweden your english is so great how did you get involved with all the things that you're involved with right now so go for it wow that's a lot okay so i am swedish like swedish born and raised despite my english um and i actually grew up in this like really small fisherman's village on the west coast of sweden had horses and sheep and all that like i'm a i'm a simple girl from the country um as i like to say um and i was raised like super secular semi well maybe almost totally assimilated um on the west coast in the 80s and 90s when i grew up and then kind of found myself jewishly in my late teens early 20s and it was never my i kind of like slowed into the shadow journalism as i like to call it when you write because i wrote almost only about jewish issues in israel for a while and it came out of necessity more than something that i sought out just because i think i have this you know pathos when it comes to justice issues and growing up and becoming more and more jewishly aware well i'm growing up in sweden coming of age in sweden and then you know um living a life here that just seems unjust uh from a jewish perspective plenty of antis in the sense that you know i never really encountered well i encountered hardcore anti-semitism when i was younger but i started reacting to it for real when i became more observant like i'm still not you know i'm still not the best jew i like to say that i'm more religious than i am observing um i wear jeans if that's an explanation to anyone ah i know so but when i started keeping kosher like it was a process that i went through you know with the help of chabad like a lot of other people we have like the most amazing chabad in stockholm and with the help of the rabbi there i sort of was nudged a little bit you know year by year to take those steps and the more observant i became the more i realized how difficult it is you know you have to actually keep kosher to realize oh wait kosher slaughter is outlawed here since 1937. how do we get food and it's unsafe for me to you know be at the jewish school or around the synagogue and when you see the all the guards like heavily armed guards outside the synagogue on the high holidays you start asking yourself like wait why why is it just us like why does no one else suffer from like what is battle about and so it started with me asking pretty naive questions i would say in my early 20s and also it had to do with you know motherhood and other things that kind of mature you and make you more of a fighter in the sense that you don't want your children to go through the things that you went through and i i grew up you know i was a teenager in the 90s in the mid and late 90s in sweden we had a lot of neo-nazis in the west coast at the time like there was a huge neo-nazi movement at the time and also it was pointed out to me that being jewish was something particular because i hadn't grown up knowing that really like i grew up knowing that my mother was jewish and that my father wasn't and then you know i had to point it out to be my my mother that oh your hair is dark because you know or you look a certain way because you know and your grandmother looks like and it was usually having to do with looks like it was always a very superficial thing but then it was when i encountered these neo-nazis that i understood oh it runs really deep because they hate me so much it must be uh my conclusion was that that must mean that there's something incredibly special about being a jew because otherwise they couldn't hate me this much like these people like we were all in our teens and yet i i realize that we're in somehow different teams and we're adversaries and we're enemies and what is what is that about what does that mean so it kind of that shot me on you know onto this journey that i then continued on through my 20s i would say and just i started going to shul i started you know learning everything um and in a sense you know it's why i also i feel very passionate and about converts in the sense that i understand like yes i had a jewish mother but it doesn't mean that you know anything you know you don't get jewish knowledge with your breast milk that's not how it works and you can feel really as a stranger although you belong to this family you can feel like a stranger when you walk into a shoal when you know nothing and it was a process of years and years and years of me like walking into shul the first time knowing nothing and then going home learning coming back the next time knowing a little more like just the process of me learning how to bench was a like it was a major thing for me in my early 20s right and then understanding why i was benching i was exactly grace after meal for those who don't know so i was doing and then understanding why i was doing it was a real process for me so i i ended up as a person who never took any of this for granted which is why i still i think i almost have sort of an almost childlike passion for it because i understand what it's like to almost lose it right because when you're the last person in a chain in a family and had i not no one else would have picked that up so i was the one to bring that forward and then bring it into my family and so i feel very very passionate about legends like anti-jewish legislation about fighting that about fighting for everyday life and and you know i realized very early on as i you know i've always traveled a lot and everywhere you see plaques sort of dedicated to dead jews and you know horrors edward jewish life used to exist and and my thought was like what but wait like i'm like i want jewish life now not like i'm not so interested in the plaque that will be dedicated to me and my people like after i'm dead right but i would like to live now and how do we accomplish that and and so for me that was it became important for me to point out hypocrisy when i saw it and when i saw wrongdoing and when i saw these things that were clearly anti-semitic but but then you encountered this other thing which is the huge taboo of just calling a spade a spade that's then you suddenly see a lot of which is in the european jewish culture i think to a sense that other jews will say well maybe careful with the antichrist let's not like let's let's wait until it's really bad i was like no but but it's that this is really bad like this is you know really the soft terror of low expectations in the sense that we've just gotten accustomed to you know all this crap like just always being at the brunt of all of this right so you know i guess you asked me for shorting but this is this is the short answer like okay so that's how that came about and then i sort of widened the circle because i used to be you know i started out as a political advisor here in sweden and that was what i thought i would be doing with my life and then and then i just started writing and the more i started writing i i realized oh i think maybe this is what i actually should be doing and the more i start coming to israel and understanding israel in a sense and the the tension between the diaspora and israel and right and what it means to be in exile you know then that became very interesting to me you know and and the kind of fraught relationship that a lot of diaspora jews have with israel it's interesting you use the word exile which is the title of your book because yeah exile has i would say more of a negative connotation like you're not where you want to be you were thrown out of what you wanted to be and even and the term is usually what someone would say is i live in the diaspora if they say it at all which doesn't i think have that heavy overlay because let's face it now jews do have the choice i mean you're not you're not right except in a few places around the world some of which you went to uh you you know any jew can come and not live in exile anymore so there there it's a it's an interesting mix of terminology that you use like when you when you called your book that what was the yeah what was the idea behind it well it's it's powerful to me because usually i use the word galoot and not diaspora because i think it's important for us to recognize them because one of the things that i encounter the most are anti-israel jews like these like anti-zionist very left-wing jews and i wanted to you know i like a conversation the basis of any decent journalism is just to have a conversation and to not go in like full force aggressive and i think part of why i've i've had been blessed with some success is because i'm genuinely curious no matter what it is i'm genuinely curious and i want to understand and what i came to understand is you know we all feel that we should be in israel but then some of us kind of fess up to it and then some and a lot of people live sort of excusing or fighting on the other side and saying we don't need israel or israel is bad and israel is this but it is we're torn like we have a lot of identities and my book is all about those identities i have a choice today to be in israel i have to recognize that i make the choice not to be but that i feel that i should like it's important for me to admit to myself that i really feel i should because otherwise you go on the defense and i think a lot of jews are always on the defense with israel because it's it's israel is our nagging mother you know you know why don't you come visit you know why you never call and we we all feel that we should be there like that's the right thing to do that's home but but what what i tried to explore in my book and i think i was able to is that this really difficult thing happens because we were you know cast out of all these different places and we ended up you know like shards of glass all over the world and then children grow up like myself carrying so many different things inside of ourselves that i have this really strong european identity as well right like i always i always say and i make a point of saying i'm a jew first before i'm swedish because that's my strongest and most important identity that's what defines me but it would be a lie to deny that i'm annoyed sometimes a lot of the time when i'm in israel like it's a fight for me it's difficult for me to hide the european part of me you're called you're culturally european yeah i'm probably i'm very much so and also not not only that but there's a love of you know that i have for the country that i was born in and certain feelings that i have that are like very particularly swedish of waking up in a morning in june you know and feeling you know the doing the grass and all of these like very swedish being on a fuel board like you know all of these things very swedish in certain ways and i think it's important that we allow ourselves all of these different identities and it's part it's fitting with with hanukkah in a way because these are all they they can all be alive inside of us that's but the problem is of course what europe has done to us and to our families in the past is say this is your choice now you cast away this or you cast away that but you're you have to be swedish and this is what it but i believe that i can say that okay i'm a jew i have a swedish passport you know my my heart is here my heart is in israel you know i carry all the all of these things and when one of the things that are most difficult and that i get into arguments about most often in israel with israelis is speaking about anti-semitism in europe for example a lot of them and that i'm very close to will say well who can't like it's dead like just go who cares europe is finished yeah yes who cares about this like no one wants to hear your whining but the point and the passion behind my book is that all of these places around the world have jewish identity that if you go to iran those are persian jews and their expression of judaism deserves to be cherished and preserved and respected and if you go to morocco also part of my book that's also true siberia in the book also true and swedish jury we have a very specific identity like we speak jewish swedish where we you know i mean it come it comes from a dark place where we didn't want to say certain words in swedish and so you mix yiddish and hebrew and swedish and you make this you know code yeah right right rather than say israel you will say the land you know have you been to the land you know things like that and these things are fascinating to me and and it was so amazing to go around the world and see myself in all of these different people because they have the same dichotomy within them as i do they struggle with the same very same issues and then there are a couple of things that connect us no matter where i go and you know if i'm in iran if i'm in irkutsk if i'm in finland or tunisia our love of israel and our connection to jerusalem those are the things that you know apart from of course prayer and hebrew and these things right but tonight yeah but the number one thing that we talk about is jerusalem and it's a beautiful beautiful thing and i think that trying to blend us all together into just one homogeneous jew that's the the wrong frame of mind because we are in exile like what happened happened this is us now and and we really are the miracle i just posted on i always do you know when i like the canvas on hanukkah i tried to post it and tweet about it and write something and and i i wrote today that you know we are by by the grace of god we are the miracle right and it's not we and we speak about the diaspora and especially that where it's so pro it's always problematic you know and especially when israel and especially from the government come up with some initiative and they're like oh let's deal with the diaspora and then we're a problem that you had to deal with but what i'm trying to do with the book is say not just the problem like maybe also like this relationship is really important and and we need to celebrate it i think uh first i think what you did is incredibly important especially if some of these communities aren't going to last for a long time although in the book you're very optimistic about certain communities for example like gerba the island off of tunisia where they have an average of four kids family like it's a you know it's a booming community it's not on its way out with like let's say some places in iran which maybe have eight or nine you know men in a little synagogue and you just know that that's about to be done um but i just want to read the list of the table of contents of your book just so people should hear you uzbekistan cuba morocco iran finland siberia sweden turkey palermo and venezuela so you it's like you didn't go to flatbush i made a point because i also think like it's so it's so annoying that all we talk about is either like europe or america and talk about diaspora and then we forget that there are a lot of colors in the jewish rainbow and and those are the most exceptional communities that have usually the oldest expression of jewish identity as well in a very like condensed way and i so i made a decision early on i will try to as as far as like majority religion i was trying to you know have christians and have muslims and all these things and also completely secular societies and former soviet states but i didn't want to like go to new york or you know go to poland or have the same conversation all over again i wanted to make a point also why there are pictures in the book for for people to understand that there are jews of color there are jews who who live uncomfortably in muslim countries there are jews who live comfortably in muslim like these are you know there's a variety because there's an idea it's not just anti-semite to have a very you know firm id on what the typical jew is we too among us have an idea about what a jew is and what a jew should be and i wanted to broaden that scope a little bit when we talk about our own people well that's what's been so interesting for me living in israel although i can really wait some of what you're saying resonates with me because even though i've been here for a long time for almost 33 years i still am very american in the way that i see things in certain things that are emotional for me absolutely like you mentioned about sweden it's it's in there but one of the things that that's interesting in israel is seeing people from so many of the different countries that you mentioned and war and realizing how multi-cultural the you know the country is and how many companies we have within the jewish world so is that the blessing of the diaspora that we went out and became such different people and different foods and different colors and different songs for the same prayers and you know different ways of celebrating the same holidays if you go into like the israel museum in jerusalem which i believe is open again they have one entire room filled with hanukkahs with menorahs yeah and you see the different styles and ways that people lit but they were all lighting and they were all right celebrating the holiday and it's just such a beautiful thing to see but you know the last on the list that i read was venezuela so yeah how did that go for you you're venezuelan well it was an adventure it was like a typical annika adventure in the sense that i was gonna stay for a couple weeks and i was there for six months so that's usually how it goes when i'm like oh this is interesting right um but it was one of the places that in my life that really captured my heart for for better and for worse for sure because i had a very dramatic a couple of really dramatic experiences there but but it's also you know there are plenty of places in the world that people talk about and then just never visit and iran it's the same thing there i went there for that very reason because everyone has an opinion and then no one ever really goes and does the old school journalism of actually like sticking around and telling people what you see there and i i didn't understand fully i knew that there was hardship because you understand it in a very like intellectual way but i had never experienced tragedy and hardship and starvation and oppression in the way that i did in venezuela and i was supposed to be there you know there had just been an election and of course juan guy though the the opposition leader i just called you know announced that he's the president and there was this fight between maduro and himself i was supposed to report on it and leave and i realized very quickly oh wait something like nothing is what it seems in this country and i need to stick around and find out what's actually going on the justice warrior came out yeah yeah yeah because you you want to find out you want to understand what's you know and and venezuela is really the onion of countries and you just peel off and there's another and there's another layer and then in the end you know it was one of the most hopeful but also it made me the most cynical i've ever become because you get you get to see such corruption and such poverty that it forces everyone you see the worst of man in the sense that you know if my children were starving like that i saw babies starving to death in the street you know mothers just had having given birth leave them literally in the street because they have nothing you know they're hoping that somebody who has a little more than nothing will come and save them and of course i came to understand that if i lived here yeah so i'd be robbing people too i'd be shooting people it's not nothing is you know we call it mod rule or whatever but but it's it's so much more complicated of course into it the world went of politics there because i ended up being kidnapped first once by by a militia on the the border to colombia and then again by people that i worked with um which is very common for ransom or because they didn't like what you were reporting or both yeah well well the first time it was a political kidnapping so that was you know i i was smart enough to have i have an iranian press pass still so on me and some depending on where i travel i use it so i was carrying that and i i believe to this day that it saved my life because really yes because i didn't speak any now i speak some spanish but at the time i spoke hardly any spanish but you know i was on the ground with a gun to the back of my head and and these militiamen called colectivos were was you know beating the out of the people i was with and me included and stealing all my things and and they were clearly high on coke which is not that uncommon you know on the border to to colombia and um and all i could say you know i i could say i'm a socialist in spanish and i and i held that and i held up my iranian press pass and i said in english you know if if you kill me there will be trouble like i'm an international journalist if you kill me there will be trouble like don't kill me and i i believe that that's why i got away with it you know you know lying about being a socialist and claiming claiming allegiance to to iran even iran but you do what you got to do when there are guns involved and and what was going through your head what was going through your head at that moment do you remember well i had a very yeah i had a very jewish moment i'm actually like i'm writing my second book now and i'm writing about that as well specifically and it took a while because i was in in so so shape one once i got back but the thing that went through my head when i had that gun to the back of my head and i heard it and i've never been in that visit like in that close vicinity to guns before but i did know the sound when you like uncock a gun and i heard it like reverberate in my skull because it like the sounds get amplified with the bone in your head so you hear it it's this very dramatic thing and i had this very jewish moment because i realized oh so i'm i'm going to die and i and the first thing i could think of was oh i have to say the shma and it was like suddenly really important to me that i had to do that but i couldn't and it was it was cost for like a crisis for me afterwards because i couldn't like there was no words forming either in my mouth or in my head [Music] i couldn't do it and i couldn't you know and then things unfolded and thank god like a couple of hours later it was over but i really thought about it a lot afterwards because i had this thought like i was like wow is it god that understands that it wasn't the time and i couldn't say it or was there something and i really really i really thought about it intensely afterwards and there was no you know not drama of my my life passing by you know or something it was just this very topless thing of like i should probably say the schma like you're going to die although if you'd said it out loud and they'd understood it that might not have gone too well so maybe it was a good thing it didn't occur to me didn't occur to me at the time but it was it was really that thing right now wow i had this one thing i had to do and i couldn't do it and but it so that then put me on the map unfortunately uh for the the authorities in in venezuela because it became worldwide news right and it became you know i tweeted about it afterwards it became a really big deal and marco rubio tweeted about it it was this whole thing and of course that's not a popular event does it make an actual journalist talks about colectivos and about you know the narco mafia no so that put a target on my back and it made it very very difficult for the amazing people that i i i worked with you know um and i ended up staying for for four and a half more months and of course i got myself kidnapped once again and i ended up sneaking i got deported once i snuck over the border to colombia using a rabbi helped me sneak over the border to colombia so it was but it was you know it's a place that was going to stay with me for life for obvious reasons but also a place that i know that i'll return to because that well everyone who travels knows that that some places unexpectedly they just catch your heart yes and venezuela is like that because there is so much death but also there's more life there than i've ever i've ever experienced anywhere and such such beauty in the darkness and but it's you know it drew me in and i couldn't get out so i i ended up saying and and even when i left after six months it was it was really difficult to leave it really was wow i i interviewed a few months ago the former his name just flew out of my head the former chief rabbi venezuela and he spoke about the country like that also that yeah there's something so incredible and he's so pained by what it's going through now yeah such a beautiful country with such incredible people and the government has just totally i mean just destroyed it yeah and i and i think it's it's you know i met a lot of um very left-wing journalists in the first weeks that i was there because there had just been an election and so much unrest and and i think you know i'm it's one of the things that upset me the most and it upsets me also because i hear it i heard it a lot during the 2016 election you know when they talk about venezuela when young people and socialists talk about venezuela and these these glowing terms and talk about you know the beauty and possibility of venezuela and and and i'm like you need to go there are dead babies everywhere like do you understand that this is what they did like they they destroyed a country that should be one of the riches on earth and and it's terrible you know and these people that old people and young people that are struggling to get by and entire generations are are you know ruined and it's it i think that that for me it was it pained me to see that people don't care to actually see the reality of things but they they prefer to you know retweet theories and and and live their life uh according to others opinion and other theories and and i think you know as journalists we have that really holy responsibility to go to a place and tell the truth and i that became my mission again for better or worse maybe i overstayed my welcome and then so but it really became it highlighted it highlighted that mission for me when i was in venezuela because i was like wow we need to talk about this because i know how it is people move on very quickly when it's no longer in the news those babies are still dying man you know it's it doesn't change for them even if it changes for us it doesn't change for them so yeah i see the pain on your face i mean because yeah it's very it's gone away very no and it's it's i think it happened it will take a lot for you to be you know beat up and kidnap twice and then still go back to a place so it says something it maybe it says something about my level of crazy but it also says something not mutually enough but it says something about the greatness the greatness of venezuela and and i feel s i i feel very strongly uh you know for it and about it and and i i'm looking forward to going back you know one of the other countries said it was morocco which has been in the news of course in the last few years there's a possibility now of some kind of treaty i don't know exactly i don't call a peace treaty but sometimes open open relations with israel what do you think what do you think about that given that you were there not so long ago when you know the community there and how they're living yeah and i would say that it's it's important to not be naive i think it's it's not that surprising i think of course there has been an understanding yes uh with the moroccan leadership for a longer time so that that is it's not iran you know so it's it has a functioning jewish community but i also think you you live as a jew at the pleasure of the king and and i i wrote this because of course the jews i had a beautiful i was there for pessa and i you know was sitting in this outside seder in a beautiful jewish in the compound and in the old city in marrakech and it was a marvelous experience but it's also you know they're safe because their neighbors are afraid to pass by the synagogue because they think they will get the evil eye from from jews you know like this is it's and the understanding that they have is one of subservience and it's important to to be it doesn't mean that you can't have a beautiful and fully functioning jewish community but it is important to to speak the truth of what that is i think that the treaty is an amazing thing because it means it will have an influx of jews that will visit and that the jewish community will hopefully flourish from that but there are places where i found that there was a more highly functioning relationship between muslims and jews and i wouldn't say i wouldn't take morocco as an example of that because it's it's functioning they have an understanding their safety but there's it's safety because of benevolence but i think we all everyone all jews in exile feel that to a certain extent swedish jews have that as well you know that is you know that's the thing that makes it different when i step onto israeli soil you know when i when i'm in israel i kind of walk different and i feel different yeah and it's something that you don't realize the first time but the more you go you understand that oh wait when i see because i i had a conversation with my children about this about because they were like super excited about seeing a soldier with a keeper and it was like so absurd for them when they were little right and as and as i explained it to them i sort of explained it to me because i said this is the one place in the world where those guns are there to protect us right like they're they work for us and it's like and it makes you feel so different yeah as uh you know as a jew as a person because what what and the next thought is a sad one because you're like oh this is what non-jews feel all the time like this is what it is for for swedish people like regular swedish people that they don't have that you know nervousness like when somebody when you hear somebody you know in the stairway outside my apartment like i react different because of who i am and because of the mood in this country so that is different in and realizing you know if you're younger i still count myself as a non-old person let's say let's not use the word younger but non-old person so i don't know thank god what it is to live in a world where israel doesn't exist it doesn't exist but but i did understand it when i was in iran for example because when you're cut off from israel completely then you also walk differently then you you have to manage your life and hold yourself you know you're accountable to this regime and there's always a threat there's a constant threat because you don't have that life raft the reason i can be cocky and i can be outspoken and i can act the way i do while being in exile is because by the grace of god there is israel so i kind of know i have all my paperwork always like i have all my rabbinic paperwork ready at every time i always know where my passport is so i know that god forbid something happens i'm out there's a country at japan you know yeah yeah yeah and and what you see and i think it's such an important lesson and and i hope that young jews speak to older jews in their community who has lived in a time where israel didn't exist because there's such an important lesson to learn and it gives you gratitude and humbles you so much that one of the things that after i went to iran that i stopped doing was for example i don't engage in debates over israeli politics anymore as an outsider because i understand how vulgar that is as a person who doesn't i didn't serve in the army you know so far my children are not in the army in israel and i need to quiet you know be quiet and say thank you and that's pretty much my role and it's important like that humility because they're they're giving everything like they're the reason that i can go and you know go to goshen and eat meats and feel free walk on the beach and have this you know or walk through jerusalem and like i own the place because i do you know so i can have this attitude because a lot of other people you know are are bleeding and serving and sacrificing for that so after going to iran and understanding what my life would be if i didn't have it was an incredible and very important lesson in humility of how to relate to israel as a jew in exile because it's it's my country but it's not my state yet right and and that's it's a very important definition i think and distinction and i think if more jews understood that and had that opportunity to to learn from from countries where israel you know where you can't have relationships israel i think the fraud relationship between diaspora jews and israeli jews perhaps would improve a little bit and you wouldn't have so many badinskis you know who are constantly getting in the business of a state that they actually don't vote for and i think it's maybe we'll never get there because we're jews and it's it's complicated and we get in each other's business either way but it's like a dream that i have that may be that it sounds like you go to these countries to report and to discover about the communities there but you come out discovering something for yourself like you you take a piece of it into you it's not just like a cold reporting and this is what's going on in iran or this is what's going on in finland right like really absorb what they're living into you and then of course in your writing and express it just so beautifully because most of us let's face it are not going to be able to do what you did for a host of reasons fear fear being at the top of the list for a lot of people i'm sure it's actually in iran i think it's a very personal some people love it about my writing and some dislike it because it is i get so involved yes like clearly i mean venezuela iran all of it i get so personally involved in it but i think you know it was a luxury for me to be able to kind of work that we all have issues with our jewish identity like we got issues it's a complicated relationship to ourselves to god to israel to all these things and we're struggling with it because it fluctuates through life you're observant you're not you know in a relationship and not like this these are things that we struggle with and for me i think also how do i you know how do i be all these things and live in the diaspora how do i express myself what is it to be a jew you know what is it what's the difference between being safarty and being ashkenazi how important is it to be actually like all of these things were things that were running through my mind and i was able to play with those concepts and understand a lot of things about myself like i i came away sort of wishing i was safari i was like oh this this speaks to me this is this speaks to me much more like i understand this very much this is a culture that i feel at home and in a way that i don't necessarily in an ashkenazi you know um situated so it was very you know it was sort of my coming-of-age jewish league project in a way i felt comfortable enough in my jewishness and my knowledge to do it because i think i needed to get to a point where i knew enough to to go out into this world and be able to take in what people were saying and be able to teach others through this book but it's sort of a climax of a journey that has gone on my entire life right because it's a point of pride that i was able to do that and now i have friends all over the world you know i stayed i ended up not staying in a hotel in jeremiah suddenly i was living with a jewish family you know and you know i was sharing the downstairs with all the girls and they taught me how to do makeup because apparently they didn't think i knew how so i learned how to do tunisian makeup and you know and the same thing happened in in iran and because you were family like at the end of the day that's that's the amazing thing and that's why i can't be you said that i was seemed hopeful in the book and i am because we have this like common thread and walking into it's hard to i tried to explain it and describe it in the book but you know the first time i walked into a synagogue in iran was in tehran for kabul at shabbat and i was really nervous obviously like i was i was in iraq all by myself and you walk into a synagogue with a hijab on for the first time in my life like that in itself is so bizarre and like emotional but then i walk in and i i realize oh i understand this because i'm hearing leche dodi and and i'm like oh wait like we're this is a friday night oh yeah no so so i'm like oh of course why was i nervous like we're the right yeah so the study is different and it's really weird that i'm in tehran but like we're family so what what am i worried about like and that's what keeps you know what keeps happening that wherever i go i just have new family that i haven't met yet and and you're welcome this family and you argue as family and you struggle and you love each other like family but there's not a single country that i've been through been in in the book where i don't like they're all my facebook friends we all fall like we all cry because we're family and and and it's we have all the like it's such a good time to be jew and it's such a beautiful world jewishly that you know i i feel incredibly hopeful and and as for you know i have some pretty clear conclusions in the book that i know i understood from the beginning once i realized what my conclusions would be they they are on the side of you know conservative or like orthodox in the sense that i saw which communities were doing well right i understood why you know they are religious they are traditions are going to be the ones that survive yeah right you know it's and you know for hanukkah it's it's sort of a sort of obvious message that you know we gotta fight it's about fighting for who you you are and what you do no matter what and and i was really i i said in the book half joe like not even half jokingly that you know it's it's sort of a call to return to the status of a way that's the ones that did really well they they had these narrow jewish lives like yeah you go out but you you're if your core and your center is not jewish right if i wouldn't be jewish first and swedish second my life would be different like it's important to understand okay what is it at the core of me that makes me mean and that for me can never be jewish culture you know it has to be faith-driven or at least observance-driven in the sense that we still have something like a remnant of something left because you know you may not be religious or observant you have to have that one thing even if it's lighting hanukkah candles or candles for shabbat right your children or grandchildren remember because then they can be lamplighters for their children and grandchildren in the future and i think that's like that's what i took away that we can't air from that like that's that's what keeps us like you know they always say that we don't keep traditions they keep us it's true and it's there's there was really no getting away from it you know this is especially about shabbat that shabbat has kept us right right right and it's it's one of the things that you know when you read my book you'll see that it's the thing that i did as a rule uh again like i'm i'll i may never be as religious or as observant as i want to but i have a rule that i always like candles and make hiddush wherever i am and and i did on on every tr even when i was hiding from police in venezuela in a really bad hotel room i was you know making kiddush and lighting candles and i did it and it became so much more important right you know because you understand okay i may not be able to do anything else but i i can do these things like that's the rule if i have two things and i stick to them i'm gonna do them no matter what and it became incredibly important and i think you know i think that's a lesson for us in some sense that it doesn't have to be everything like it can be a jewish smorgasbord but just pick a couple of things and let's like hold on to them right and then maybe someone else after you will do more you know god willing was there one place that you went to that you were like they're not going to be around for very long cuba yeah because it had they were so good you know the communists did a really good job in taking away the essence you know uh and and when you eradicate people's identity and replace them with ideology like that they won like it was really heartbreaking to see because they try and i went to the troll of course and i did the things that i usually do but it was really difficult to see you know and it became this like reverse uh sort of not even phylosomatic but because of poverty that people were trying to claim to be jewish in order to make aliyah because all they wanted was to get off the island right and they said that you know the shul is filled with non-jews on shabbat because they know there's food there's a little bit of extra food so you can get an egg or you can get some beans or bread you know it's but they they lose that and and they they won like it was the only place where i thought yeah if i'm back here in 10 years wow there's it's a plaque you know and and that was really difficult but on the other hand out of 12 countries you know then take places like palermo that were at the heart of the inquisition right and i was there to see the rebirth of that community of amazing you know the organization israel has done amazing things there yeah and i was there to see the rededication of an old synagogue that they had stolen and turned into church and now is being turned back into synagogue and people with jewish lineage who were converting orthodox in that time and doing that because they had that light within them so like as down in the dumps as i was in havana you know i i there's a million other places where you see proof of like it just takes that one like who's a little bit difficult and has that feeling of like there's something here and it was incredibly like incredibly inspirational like i was standing by the old mikvah in in palermo you know going down the stairs it was now right under the center square in claremo wow and you see like it was so powerful because you feel oh this is the literal rebirth of jewish life here where they skinned us alive you know i was at the the head the you know the old head of the inquisition and which is now the museum of the inquisition and it was so powerful you know i took what is probably the most powerful image of the entire book which is the wall where they and outside there's a big belt they would ring and bring them out and execute them and torture them and inside they would hold all the jewish prisoners and they etch things into the wall and then there's this giant etching of the city of jerusalem and it says jerusalem under it and it's the last one that somebody used their fingernails to etch into the wall before they die and how could i not be you know you have to be all filled up with inspiration from that like you can either say screw this europe is terrible or you can say wow that's the jewish spirit you have one thing to say before they skin you alive and it's jerusalem right you know like it's so powerful and i was in portugal last year so i know exactly what you're talking about looking at the stakes where they burnt people alive seeing the women the list of women on the wall because that's what they they killed more women because they know that the women were giving down the faith so they killed the mothers so they wouldn't say the schmeister el with their children on their pillow yeah you know and that was that was really burnt into me i know exactly what you're saying that is so powerful it is so powerful but to be a jewish mother and woman and be able to say to them like you didn't die for nothing because i'm going to take on what i put into and i'm going to make sure that this never ends in whatever way i possibly can it's like you take that on yourself to a great degree uh this that's how i felt like we've got a lot to do yeah and you feel responsibility and i i feel also that i am i am standing on the shoulder of giants here because these people i mean how many people would have just cried and denounced their faith i mean not that that didn't happen and understandably so but these giants of faith and conviction you know and again chanukah is a good example of this of what we remember and celebrate of our heroes and such heroic acts to do what to make sure that i can be here today so my choices matter and i think it's an amazing lesson for us as adults for our children that yeah it does matter like one person really matters and what you do and what you choose to do jewishly as an ambassador of your people really matters because someone will speak of you you know a thousand years from now like we speak of that and we remember them and you are that person and it's incredibly important and i think it's it's the art of storytelling and and it's why i wanted to do the book and and how we tell our stories as jews you know the crusader or whatever yes yeah but really important to me and and and it's me hopefully telling you know being so personal in the book and being so engaged with the people i also want because i love them you know i i tell the story of my you know one of my best friends now 91 year old isadore who goes to my shul he's he's the you know he's the main person in the chapter about sweden and i got to spend time with him and hear his jewish story as a swedish jew and and i want to celebrate like i want everybody else to know how cool he is like i want everybody to know what it took for him to live 90 years as an orthodox jew in sweden swimming growing up only yiddish like that's and i want them to know about the jews in jeruba and in iran and not look at them with these like you know cocktails and being oh poor jews of of the diaspora like no we are you know like the man in germa said to me that he was like once we were talking about the crystal now i was sitting in the shore and there was always no people there and some guys just some jews just come and hang out you know they have their little parliament in short because it's a safe place to be and we were talking about the crystal map and he said like once upon a time we were shards of glass but now we're diamonds and i thought this was so because and i i felt it you know because they broke us ones and they broke us twice but we're diamonds you know like the more pressure that is applied the stronger we get and and we see that now and it's you know i'm i'm both ashkenazi and swedish so i shouldn't be this upbeat and positive about it yeah i have two reasons to be like really really so two negative two negatives cancel you know yeah there you go you get a positive yeah but but it's like how could i you know how could i not be because it's those meeting those people you know was the highlight so far of my life because because it's amazing to be able to tell people stories and i know that different chapters will resonate with different people you know like i had old you know old george man writes to me about this story in from finland with a soldier who fought both with and against the nazis right and and that's an amazing story and he didn't you know he was a powerful man when i met him and incredibly you know at 100 now he's since passed but it's it's this amazing thing to have met him and to understand how he was thinking and he was an orthodox jew in the finnish army and he spoke with such pride and conviction and and that you know to be able to bring that story to the world i know that that will resonate with a lot of people yeah and people will identify with different parts of this book in their own way and i hope but i hope that the takeaway is being as obnoxiously positive as i am [Laughter] hear that everybody don't read the book if you're not going to be positive yeah because it's it's a although a couple tissues would be handy while you're reading it would be handy but it's like a celebration yeah it yeah you will need that but it's a celebration of survival at the end like it's a very fitting it's a haunted gift you know this is a celebration yeah and i'm really happy to have done that so let me just ask you because i've been trying to get you for an interview for a while but you were a little indisposed for the last few months so where have you since where have you spent most of our corona era era um because it wasn't well near the stone i no i was in west africa in ghana for eight months where a few of those were plans to to go there and write and do research but the majority was they closed their country very quickly and then stayed shut for five months so i just lived in ghana for 8 months and it was a a very interesting and i would say mostly just happy experience that i was blessed in getting to know a brand new country a part of the world that i have never been in and of course in the jewish community of course so so you know i now have a brand new jewish family in ghana and uh so i spent you know the hakim i spent pesa i spent all the holidays at kabad ghana and i'm now sort of you know adopted into the family and it was it was great and as you said to me before sweden is now really really cold like it was so cold and i don't like it's wherever i go i don't fit in maybe that's what i'm actually doing with all of this journalism that i'm laundering too yeah i'm gonna find my sweet spot at some point like i'm going to find the spot like this but it's not or maybe not maybe not maybe but maybe your sweet spot is fitting in in so many different places and not really fitting in anywhere yeah maybe asking questions because that's really the ultimate jewish thing is constantly asking questions we can be yelling at god why why why why why end of the world and not always getting answers most of the time not getting answers yeah no i i like that idea and i must say i'm i'm enjoying life you know wandering and and and figuring it all out or at least trying to figure it all out yeah so all right so where can people get your book oh everywhere i hope you can get it on on amazon exile portraits of the jewish diaspora so you can get it where books are sold as they so pointless so and god really i will be be in israel and give some talks once we are allowed to go give grace to actual people again so i look forward to that and i look forward to seeing you here yes absolutely for sure can't wait long time ago okay thank you so much uh nika hernroth rothstein for i think first of all a very illuminating and moving conversation really and uh thank you for what you're doing because it's got an element of risk to it but i think you going in and taking out the stories in some cases right before they disappear forever especially with some of the older people is something that is priceless it really is priceless and what most of us can do so we're going to do this vicariously through you all right so um thank you so much thank you and everybody i hope wherever you are you're enjoying what's called the holiday of lights eve harrow rejuvenation on the land of visual network with thanks to ben and to tabitha and broadcasting as i have been for quite a few months from the heart of judea take care everybody goodbye for now you