Rejuvenation: Religious Zionism - Is the Best Yet to Come?

[Music] hi everybody Sublette tov you are listening to eat pero on rejuvenation for the land of israel Network I know you all missed me last week but Jeremy insisted that we get a vacation on Tessa at least from the radio show so here I am back and but after what I had a beautiful hug and I hope that all of you who celebrated Pesa wherever you are in the world also did but it is the start of a new week and ready to roll I am out on a plane tomorrow morning but before that I wanted to put out today's show I'm sitting with Rabbi roofin taragan in alone shoot in Gush Etzion rabbi taragan is the dean of overseas students at UC about her cartel one of the flagship yeshiva torah seminaries in jerusalem but also very involved with Mizrahi what is Mizrahi we're going to talk about that in a couple of minutes and the program that I am heading out to be a participant in 7470 celebrating Israel's 70th birthday the State of Israel 70th birthday with speakers going all over North America so Thank You rabbi taragan for joining me today buuuut another beautiful day in the Land of Israel yeah it's beautiful at the beginning of a beautiful summer please God and it's great to sit with you and great to be working with you on this program okay so tell my listeners they've heard me I've mentioned it over the last couple of weeks what is this program and you're heading out as well right I'm gonna be going with you to Los Angeles and sharing a panel with you on Sunday please God and my wife Shani is going to be in Florida please got your sending out the end of the week as well the program is in honor of Israel's 70th anniversary they're sending actually it turns out to be over 70 speakers to schools around North America it's up to 80 by now and they're also a number of speakers going to other destinations besides North America besides the United States going to Canada going to England Australia South Africa and other places to speak about Israel in anticipation of this very special milestone even though Israel is important to all of us and we think about it all the time we need to deepen our relationship with Israel as much as possible where we are in the world so what is which organizations behind this what is the RCRA religious science of America Mizrahi are they the same thing because sometimes you have an organization that's in Israel and in the United States obviously have to be different because of where they're based being a Zionist in Israel it's a little bit different than being a Zionist outside of Israel but in terms of the administration in terms of the the organization that is also putting quite a bit of money into this and subsidizing a bunch of us heading out so what what is Mizrahi so Mizrahi is the oldest religious Zionist organizations over 100 years old it was started as part of the Zionist movement already in Europe to represent those who believe as part of their religion and Zionism as a major component religious Zionism and so Mizrahi who was very involved in facilitating the founding of the State of Israel bringing people to Israel and building religious institutions in the State of Israel so world Mizrahi today is headed by Rev their own Peres who is pushing these kinds of initiatives all over the world and there are the local mizrachi's in different countries so since we're talking about the United States the arsy a religious Zionist of America which has also been around for a long time not as long as the world Mizrahi and we're constantly looking for ways to rejuvenate and Riaan still these ideas and new generations and each of those organizations world miss Rossi and the RCAF put considerable amount of money into subsidizing these programs and are looking forward to continue running not only these kinds of programs but other kinds of initiatives to strengthens people's relationship with with Israel around the world so the synagogue's we're all heading to are all Orthodox synagogues this program is Orthodox synagogue has mentioned the madrasa PRCA are a religious meaning Orthodox Zionists so this program is that but we are very hopeful and eager that in other synagogues as well thought about Israel and connections issues should be strengthened too so there's there's kind of an inherent difficulty in having a zionist organization around the world is that if you're successful people move to Israel and therefore the organization the global organization outside of Israel gets weaker because people actually come so how do you deal with that and and what is going on what is the situation now I remember my grandparents and we're talking many many many years ago we're very involved in rally you don't hear so much about it anymore is that is what I just said part of the reason why it's success has kind of undermined the organization yeah I think so I think as Jews especially those who are most passionate about religious Zionism leave to fulfill their dreams they leave behind frameworks and people are also wonderful people that maybe weren't at the forefront of those movements and so definitely the movements and foots loritts need constant rejuvenation and I think that's why people today are thinking about how they can strengthen so for example or of their own parros's role within world Mizrahi in the last few years has been to strengthen that for the world the RCA in America recently hired Rabbi David Israel to strengthen their efforts there and on the one hand continue to facilitate people making a yah we work very closely with nefesh been efficient have Josh fast and they're wonderful people he has and on the other hand to strengthen the consciousness and connection of those who do remain overseas and so yeah that is a big challenge and you are right that partly because of that challenge there have been time periods where people are aware of what this is what miss Rossi is what the desires of america are but where there have been less active and we're moving into a period where hopefully there's going to be much more activity so what you're going to well I'm going to miss Jacob Congregation Beverly Hills and you are going to going to Jana in Hancock Park and also to share a there I'll be speaking in both places and on Sunday we're both be taking part in a special breakfast program at Beth Jacob so there's a lot of programming going on in Los Angeles there's other speakers there as well and as mentioned in over 70 communities across the United States and and then many others around the world so the panel topic that we have on Sunday morning and I don't know if it's like that in the other places around the United States is the future of religious Lionism and education now you yourself are into education not everybody who's going I mean I do the radio and I'm a tour guide which I guess makes me an educator as well I just a brief look at the other speakers who are going Manning our rabbi as many are educators so is that going to be the main topic do you think of the people who are going out there what do we do about the future here is I mean what do you what do you see I hate to you're the moderator of the panel so I can ask you this question because I'm sending more here asking me the questions what do you see as the future of religious Zionism okay so first of all just about the programming each about program is being arranged by the shul and the speaker so each one will have its own emphasis although the goal is for all them to be about Israel and as mentioned there are multiple Sunday programs over ten in different centers around the United States and each one building their own program we are just facilitating the speakers and connecting them with the various places yeah I anticipated my impression is from communicating with different places that people are thinking about two things one our connection with Israel and to the future of the State of Israel both in general and and specifically the role of religious Zionism and I think on both of those questions again since you're the moderator I'm giving my answer but I think on both of those questions sometimes people feed that part of the cup that's that's empty that's missing and there still is a lot to be done but both the State of Israel and religious Zionism within the state have made huge strides over the last decades the State of Israel is a formidable power within the world economic market scientific market for sure security the State of Israel is a country that stands very much in a strong way on its own as opposed to in past decades over things were much more challenged and religious Zionism not only is it strong as a movement through its own organizations but you see the degree to which the mainstream aspects of the State of Israel whether it's politics education the head of the police force meaning religious people who have a religious Zionist ideology are playing a much more central role within the state and religious Zionism as an ideology is much more recognized and central to how the State of Israel functions and so there definitely is a lot more to accomplish and we're focused not on resting on laurels but on moving things forward but there's a lot to be very proud of a lot to be excited about and a lot to serve as a basis for hope in the future so I know this might be a simple question but I have listeners from all over the world and also from many different religions how would you define religious Zionism that's an excellent question which many of us who see ourselves as religious honest maybe don't need to define so religion of course we know what that is really is where a person does their best to try and serve God in the best possible way and in Judaism that's through the study of Torah and the commitment to mitts vote to the commandments Zionism as a separate entity is the belief in the importance of Jews returning to their homeland and strengthening and building that that homeland for Jews religious Zionism isn't just the belief in both but it's the belief that Zionism is an integral part of religion and that the proper way one lives religiously is through a connection to Israel and through developing Israel so religious Zionism is not just a belief in two ideas but the belief in the two being connected to one another that a proper form of religion expresses itself in our connection with with the land and State of Israel and that a proper connection to the land and State of Israel is one that finds its roots in a religion and beyond the world of ideology beyond the world of ideology definitely a connection with Israel that finds its roots in religion is going to be a more meaningful stronger one and unfortunately we've seen over past decades how many of those whose connection to the State of Israel has not been found that own religion the connection has been much weaker and we see it in many many ways and so not only do believe this connection this between religion and science isn't it's also very very important for the strength of the State of Israel I would think and anybody who's going to come here the panel should come anyway because this is by no means everything that I want to say but I would think actually this is our time it's been 70 years which is a significant number the army as you said is strong and with all that everyone's talking about and nobody's minimizing Iran and Hezbollah or any of the dangers around us I you and I are not the ones who affect the the protection of the State of Israel we leave it in other people's hands and out of Shems hands and I believe that it will be okay I don't know how but we do believe that it will be okay the question is what happens within this state right now and as you said and a lot of times I think it's kind of a replay of Joshua and I was talking about I'm talking about the original Joshua be knowing the one who brings us into the land because I was guiding on Passover also he comes up a lot because that's our initial foray into the land of Israel is right before Passover and a lot of those things that we talked about in Ischl days are happening on Passover and he comes in and essentially it's meal a sham a lie it's were coming in we're going to have to fight we're going to have to conquer we're going to have to plant and settle but as long as we remember that Hashem is with us and he will be with us when we're doing it for the right reasons which is exactly to some degree I don't know could we say they you're sure be known as the first religious Zionist in the sense of thing now we're coming in as a nation there's a nationalistic elements here to the land into the Mitzvahed and the things that we need to do in Lent on the other hand if we're going to do this without understanding that this is what Hashem wants from us from his people for whatever reason he's got his reasons and if we're not constantly aware that he is with us but only when we're doing it for the right reasons then it's not going to work so maybe now that the state has as you said is has economic strength has physical strength high-tech whatever you want to call it in a way that I don't even think the founders could have dreamt up 70 years ago maybe now is the time to put the Hashem back in here not in a coercive kind of a manner but it in a nationalistic kind of a way well I agree with everything you said as far as Yeshua Vanunu I would definitely agree as religious eyes but I don't know if he's the first I would think the first one was the first Jew and the first thing we know of what God said to Abraham was go to Israel the first thing we know about what God expects from Abraham religiously and in following him as the father into Israel so I definitely show up in ranks the people as a whole arm is a nation already not just well maybe Moshe as far as division though we didn't get to get in there I didn't get in your shoe as the one who's gonna realize it but as far as the major point that you mentioned this far is now being the time I agree and I'd like to add another reason as to why the challenge for religious Zionism always was that the people who were leading the state had an ideology that often intended to supplant religious Zionism meaning to paint Judaism in a new form it wasn't just that they were secular Jews they believed in a secular ideology as an ideology as opposed to a religious ideology as we all know in the first years of the State of Israel there was strong opposition to religion and to religions role now there's there still are those who object but their objections are very much from the extremes and from an ideology that's dying out most secular Jews in Israel today are either traditional or not anti tradition and so there's a vacuum today as far as what is the ideology that the State of Israel stands on we just had a beautiful example of this which again expressed all sides the fact that the hospitals decided that the hum 'it's shouldn't be brought in on Pesa not because all the people running the hospitals are very careful about all the laws of Pesa but the understanding that in a Jewish state hum it should not be on display in public places on Pesa and there definitely were those who objected those very much today on the fringes who used to be in more in the center the ideology that was anti religion within the State of Israel has become very much on the periphery so now there's much more room for religion and religious Zionism to put its stamp on what the State of Israel stands for and then of course we have others in Israel who are religious without being Zionists without taking part in some of the responsibilities that come with having a state so the yeshiva that you are very involved with you ship out a cartel is what's called a history Shiva where the boys not the overseas boys although I'd like to ask you about how many of them do join combined army service with also Torah studies so maybe a little bit about that aspect of your life right so just the backdrop sadly many religious people in Israel don't identify fully or enough with the State of Israel and that goes back to where we're talking about a few moments ago which is the fact that the State of Israel was founded by many people who were anti religious and not on the principles of religion we know and believe and are working towards the state becoming more connected to and people today who were uncomfortable with the State of Israel still a carryover of that thankfully as a whole those groups are more involved in the state than they once were and we at Mizrahi were the designers of America and want to look for ways to try and involve them and you'll note that a lot of the speakers on the list of people who are not nice at the forefront of card-carrying flag-waving religious Zionist but people who feel strongly about arity ceralun and people who hopefully we can work with as far as the second part of your question so yes the heads do you Shiva means they have an arrangement that has their with the government where instead of doing the army or learning tour instead of having to make that choice they commit themselves to a five-year program where they do both those things on a very high level and that's a beautiful expression of what religious Zionism stands for which is our commitment to learning Torah but also our commitment to strengthening in the State of Israel and sacrificing ourselves and sadly happily heads their soldiers have been at the forefront of the fighting in the various was visible and have paid the price we're not said about paying the price but we're happy that we are bearing the responsibility along with everyone else and so yes Eve at the Kotel sends its soldiers off and also overseas boys we do not encourage overseas boys to do the army but you've had the Kotel is unique in that the boys are integrated with Israelis and a lot of boys seeking to stay in Israel and or do the army choose a Kotel and many many of them I'm go to the army we recently had a girafft where a lot of these boys entered the army and beautiful videos of that day I can share with you and so we are definitely educating our overseas boys as well for a connection with Israel for a commitment to Israel whether they choose to move here or not whether they choose to to do the army or not but to feel connected with the State of Israel as a central part of growing religiously right so my youngest on actually is in the fifth year of his history program here in other launch routes in haryana Sheva not in not in a hotel and it's not just bearing the responsibility as part of the state but it's also meeting other people there's no way one of the things that makes religious Zionism also in a sense we expose our children to both worlds we expose our children but to both the world of Torah and to the secular world if you will or to the open world where people work and people go out and people go into the army and with that for some of us comes that I would even use the word danger because the kids are open then they're not sheltered anymore it's easy to keep easier to perhaps to keep the kids but that it's been said before that it's the - if you have religious Zionism and a - in the middle the - is the most important part of those two words because it is bridging it it's not being just religious and just believing in the state but it's actually bringing those two things in together so how what do you say then when also educating your own children I've known your wife who's amazing incidentally for many years and she yourself as a top educator how do we do that especially in a world where there everything is coming into our children all the time because of the internet and information it's really impossible to protect our kids anymore how do how do we find that balance it definitely is a challenge anyone who wants to raise their children with values that are not with the mainstream dominant culture of the world believes faces a bigger challenge today when that mainstream culture is streamed into people's minds your day and night and I think it hinges on both having clarity to oneself of what a person's core values are and believing in them strongly and clearly not in securely in a way the children can at least see an alternative role model of people who have clarity about what their values are and educating children in a clear way by example of what our values are as much as we feel there's what to learn from the world around us helping children understand that there's a big difference between us in the world around us and that they should be proud and understand why they should be proud of the values we have that we're serving for them as an example of them so it's even more important today we can't rely as much on a child just being surrounded all the time by people with the same values we have to give a good role model to children of ourselves as people who have clarity on what our real values are so if we're people who see ourselves basically as regular Zionists who happen to keep a few Commandments then our children going to pick up the first key part which is we're regular Zionists like everybody else and maybe we do or don't keep a few Commandments that's maybe cream on the cake that we either take or don't take but if we define our or identity as religious people and we see and present Zionism as an expression of core religious values but the core religious values are what make us us and there's a better chance of them being able to see what it means to be a religious person who's also a Zionist noteworthy it's not Zionistic religion it's religious Zionism where if you don't have the religious core as we said earlier the Zionism loses its true meaning I think a good 95 percent of what you just said incidentally could be picked up by my Christian listeners for the same struggle that they have in educating their children to stay with the God program even though there's so much else out there it's what we do as parents to a great degree in the environment that we set up for our kids it is going to make the difference so I think I think the messaging of religious Zionism even though it's particular to this place and that's the Zionism part is something that can be applied to a lot of people around the world who are looking to the next generation what kind of world are we going to have are the battles and and this is something that I deeply believe that a lot of the battles around the world or religious wars whether people want to face that or not it's God people versus not God people or how God is expressed in the world but it's very challenging here to build the States we don't want to be coercive we have public spaces now what do you do with the public spaces what do you do with different institutions what do you do with government what do you do with hospitals as you said which are open to everybody as the comments issue is not bringing leavened bread in during the Passover week without and also we have a party that is more or less a religious honest party by you know deed are the things that they do are we happy with them but they're people were in keep our tour or women not wearing key part but who are observant Jews in all the kinds of different parties are we happy with their behavior do they express what we want them to express so it's really it's very challenging very exciting and very frightening I think all at once yeah like you're saying and and this is relevant to all people it's a lot easier to maintain your ideology if you're separated from the world and don't believe in the need to engage it you can build your own framework and interact with the world only in a utilitarian level but if you see yourself whatever religion you are as responsible to build the world around you to engage the world so you can impact it well as soon as you're engaging the world you're interacting with people with other values and involved in the kind of things that aren't narrowly religious State Building and Society building in so many levels and so it's even more important that your values are very strong and very clear and and sadly the religious community struggles with these issues that and as I said before and I think this is a real core part of it if a person sees that our identity as IANA sztyc first and religious second then it's gonna it's very easy to just want to take the first and go with it and because the second is it is a real responsibility and mission and requires a lot of hard work just as the first does but the second also this and I think we as a religious Zionistic community or whatever your listeners see as their values have to make sure that we by example model for our children how our core values are important to us if a person themselves has religion as a write-off and within their framework they can't possibly expect their children to take it more seriously so it's even more important today that the values be something lived as our core values okay so Mizrahi Flash 7470 org is that the is that it's also on the RZ a website it's on both you can find it on both and you can see there a list of speakers description of the program list of the community is going out to and this is probably going to evolve into a speaker's bureau in a more consistent basis so we can continue this effort as long as many other efforts which I'll also mention that in over a hundred jewels in the United States and many more around the world Mizrahi is launching a devourer torah booklet which will consist it does consist already of debris Torah from the prime minister chief rabbi as other educators from Israel and this not just this week but in future weeks will be a good way for Jews around the world to think not only about Israel but of the Torah coming from Israel and the guidance coming from Israel on a weekly basis keeping people connected which is really the goal I remember reading just a few weeks ago a few months ago I don't even know anymore time's going so quickly the Sheva University which is really the flagship of let's say modern orthodoxy which is not religious Zionism exactly it's you don't have that political or nationalistic element in there the flagship University in New York so they used to be the ones to send out teachers went into the modern Orthodox world and now when they need it they're looking more towards Israel's Israel's already become that Center moved the center that shift of as you said engaging with the world while keeping traditions and the Torah values Israel is already the center of that and I think it's beautiful this idea to send I think almost all the speakers are coming from Israel I looked through the list there were just a couple that don't actually live full-time in Israel descending as sad as you said Kim Seok - ha right from Zion shall come Torah especially for the next Shabbat which is the Shabbat before the birthday of the State of Israel the 70th birthday of the State of Israel I know that I'm tremendously honored to be a part of this program and I'm delighted that you took a few minutes from a very busy schedule after bezu after Passover to sit with me and explain really to my listeners about Mizrahi about religious Zionism I think I know that you've shed some new light for me and I'm sure you have for my listeners as well thank you thank you very the time and for being part of the program and we look forward to continuing to work together to strengthen the goals that your organization has that we have which is the land of Israel and strengthening our relationship with it and we're lucky that we live in a time where we can develop this okay Bradley Rubin taragan who I will see next week in Los Angeles so safe travels and thank you everybody I've got a few more things to say but I will let rabbi tarik and go I will be right back hi this is Josh hastened host of Israel uncensored here on the land of Israel network tune in every Monday to hear the latest news coming from Israel plus interviews with top Israeli politicians media personalities and activists all doing their part to counter anti-israel propaganda and don't miss a minute be sure to stream our download all of the amazing programming from our wide range of hosts here at the Land of Israel network on the Land of Israel calm hi everybody Eve I am back still April 8 the 23rd day of Nisan Sunday beautiful day in Jerusalem and I hope you enjoy a few minutes with Rebbe moving taragan and explaining a little bit about the program that once again I am so excited to be a part of for the next week just a few minutes of like personal chitchat I hope you all really had a wonderful Pesa I ran 2 buses for Wayne his girlfriend and one of them was to harbor ha - magazine which was really really a very intense day going to the National Park there and seeing they have the remnants of the building it's the western wall of the actual building of their temple the Samaritan temple from the 5th century BCE which was built an exact replica of the Jewish Temple in Jerusalem at the time we're talking about the times during the Persian period the times of let's say ezra Nehemia so we don't have as far as we know or as far as we have found who knows if this hasn't been destroyed by some of the people who are occupying right now the Temple Mount but we don't have the remnants of anything much that we know of of our first temple yet there is an exact replica sitting on Mount Gerizim and the owner of the western wall remember when you go to the cartel when you go to the Western Wall in Jerusalem you're not going to the western wall of the temple you're going to the western wall of the supporting of the supporting plaza that held up the Temple Mount so I find that particularly moving and exciting we went we looked around there we spoke to one of the Samaritans one of the priests the Samaritan priests and in their Museum which was also very interesting a human look into the first temple times and into some of what they still do they still do a Passover sacrifice and we went to the area and they explained it to us so you see little hints of Judea of what we still do in there other things that we do not do anymore or maybe used to or of course they think they're the real Jews we went to yeshiva Harbor aha which was where Rafi Tamar been gal who was murdered a few weeks ago he that's where he studied and we went to the winery in Harbor ha and was all together well of course the overlook to SRAM the overlook to modern-day knob loose and tora tora tora everywhere the blessings and the curses and the parable of your Tom and so many things in that area you could just spend so much time there we had a day and then another day in the Binyamin region in you know Frost seeing where the amount of people where a monetha the town that was you that was destroyed about fifteen months ago where it was driving through there seeing some of the beautiful part of the community and Afra a home for kids with special needs and then moving our way to the sheilo block and seeing i mean i which is where the unwanted people are now starting to move into so from destruction to hopefully some kind of renewal and rebuilding and an unbelievable view also from Remo neem out to the Jordan Valley near Jericho where we came in as a people with Joshua could have that discussion with Rabbi taragan about whether Abraham is actually the first Jew or the first monotheists that that in itself is a fascinating discussion but definitely talking a whole lot about Joshua and about my people coming into the land oh so long ago and and the fact that now we're back so I had a really great week and also spend some family time did get some bad news and that is what I'm going to ask you all to pray for a few months ago you might remember that I interviewed some good luck about his business about freshbiz in a few years a couple of years ago I had interviewed simcha about some of the in a very raw interview about some of the major issues that he and his wife Rachel had had in having children major fertility issues and everything that they went through for over a decade and thank God they had their third son at the end of December I was at the breech in January many of us here on the land dividual Network are quite close to them well they got some very bad news right before the holiday that their second son is very very sick I mean very very sick we're talking about cancer in a three-year-old that has spread and so I'm gonna ask all of you in some way to please pray for ya Cara frame the son of Rachel Devorah and simcha okay I don't care what language you praying I don't care how you pray in addition to praying for his full recovery do something good do something kind let's shift the world just a little bit to the side of good so give a little bit of extra charity don't lose your temper when you're tempted to in some ways just act a little bit better thinking of his recovery of the balance again once again we talk about this all the time the forces of good the forces of evil in the world and let us just make this world a kinder and better place thinking about his full recovery it is I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around this and he needs to get better so yeah here at frying the son of Rachel Devorah and simcha when somebody is sick in Judaism you actually pray for them using their mother mother's name I'm just throwing in the simpler because it can't hurt and and to give them also strength in in helping him get better and with their new little baby and their five-year-old son as well so all of us here at the land of visual Network our hearts and prayers and thoughts and good deeds all towards this right now and and I would bring you into our greater family as well and ask that you do so as well and so enjoy the spring wherever you are I again leaving for Los Angeles tomorrow morning and we'll be there for the next few days would love to see any of you if you happen to be in Los Angeles not that I'm saying that you shouldn't go on Shabbat and here Ruth interrogate relevant arrogant or web staff or when or and there are four rabbis and yours truly who are going to be in Los Angeles for next Shabbat and for Sunday morning but wherever you may live go up go to their web site mr. Rockley 7470 org and if one of these events is happening in your community join us join us join us in celebrating the rebirth of the Jewish people in the Land of Israel a 70th birthday of Madinah Israel of State of the State of Israel so going off now to pack hope to hear from you hope that you with us in every in every sense of the word thank you so much for listening everybody thanks once again to Tabitha then at everybody who could fit the network and it's great to be back take care of you buddy goodbye for now