Rejuvenation Pre-Passover Special: A Rose Amidst COVID-19 Thorns

[Music] hi everybody this is Eve Harrow and rejuvenation for the land of Israel Network it is Tuesday March 31st 2020 the March that never seems to end I know that's a meme that's going around but I looked at 2020 the other day and I thought yeah that's the days in March that's definitely this month is just on on and on but we are fresh into the Jewish month of Nisan the sixth of the Nisan 5780 and I'm still housebound because we're in the middle of this kovat 19 pandemic but it is giving me an opportunity to do other things and one of them is interview dr. Daniel Rose who came out with a new Hagaddah a new book that we use for Passover for the Seder that is aimed at youth okay so dr. Daniel Rose thank you so much for joining me on rejuvenation today we are zooming by the way guys even though this is the usual podcast and audio you can also see this on youtube so you can actually see what we look like to housebound people in israel it's more than exciting I like just you know just I hope your blood pressure doesn't get too high and you'll get palpitations if you cluing so daniel rose tell us a little bit about yourself and what your background is - right Hagaddah which is you know there's a lot of versions of how I got out there for youth for grown-ups which is not a new book it's a book that was put together quite a few centuries ago so tell us a little bit about yourself first of all thanks for having me Eve it's pleasure to be here in my lockdown you have sort of this beautiful sunshine behind you I'm in my basement with my five kids upstairs have you come out at all in the last two weeks or they dragged me out every now and again they dragged me out but it's a pleasure to be here my name is Daniel Rose I'm originally from England born and bred there made earlier 20 years ago I'm an educator I've always been an educator I say since the age of 15 I first became a Madrid and youth movement and I've had lots of amazing educational things in education I've been a high school teacher lot of informal education and then I had this we spent a couple of years actually in Atlanta and she which was a wonderful Georgia and then when I came back and I was desperately looking for my next adventure III through you know aha I did serendipity I got this amazing opportunity to work with Koren and I started developing Citarum with Koren there's what Koren is though because I mean I know corn very well but not everybody might be familiar with it Koren publishing house is a Modern Orthodox publishing house that publishes primarily it began with liturgy and antonov but now it's expanded it's like a fantastic Empire for the very creative Jewish thought Jewish philosophy or I mean that their range is tremendous your visit Cohen Cohen pub comm I don't work for them anymore and I don't get any commission on anything I'm not even getting commissioned from my hagatha that we're going to talk about I got paid to write it and that's it but it's a labor of love and it's no less than sure rabbi dr. Jonathan Sacks the former chief rabbi of your stomping grounds your birthplace the UK has put out like when I go on Yom Kippur to synagogue it's his mother it's his prayer book that I use and as you mentioned a lot of philosophy a lot of commentary on the text so that we understand what we're saying and deepen our the meaning for us and also related to day to day and I know that there are many people and I don't want to name names but there are many people who use a publishing house that has English translation and I think what's important is that you said is that chlorine is Modern Orthodox meaning there's Zionism in the Koren books it is ver I find living here in Israel that sometimes if I want to use an English translation that stills my mother tongue some of the English translations are a different touch cough I like a different way of looking at the world and the Jewish lens then that I and probably you also have it's so it's very its Israel centered it's its modern world centered as well how we integrate the two things and I think that that's important to mention because it's not just another English translation of a lot of the liturgy a lot of the texts the Tanakh and the prayer books it has a way of viewing things that I think is very much needed here we are in 57 80 in 2020 and I would really recommend and again I'm certainly not on their payroll either but I would recommend it if you're looking for something that perhaps reflects the way that you're thinking in this day the corner be a great place to start but your hug the Haggadah you said is a labor of love so did they succumb to you and suggest that it should be written was this something that because as an educator was sitting in the back of your head how did this comes out so I'd say this so when I when I was working for them full time and I was developing this series of Citarum the educational city rim which refer this right this four in the series from preschool I would say until high school and the truth is the the fourth of the series is great for adults as well it's called the I need four lights but a lot of kind of educational content that connect that will help everyone connect to prayer anyway and that was great and then I moved on and on to my next educational challenge the back of my head I always had this passion for Seder night so we were just discussing before we went on live about how this year sadly we were in this situation where a lot of people are going to be running Seder for the first time because they are you know isolated in their own nuclear family in their house and when they would normally spend Seder with the wider family this year they're just gonna be on their own well I I've run my own Seder for many years we kind of take turns sometimes it's just sometimes it's are much larger family if you were supposed to be a broader larger family and I love that as well I love watching my kids with their cousins and I even love my mother-in-law no I really do and and and this year I was we were supposed to be with them and and we're not in we're very sad and my mother my mother-in-law and my parents are stuck in London and we can't be with them and but I'm actually very excited to be with my kids where we run the city one the agenda so I've been passionate about stay tonight for many many years in fact as long as I've been an educator because I really honestly see Seder and the Haggadah as being a paradigm for what good education should be so what do I mean by that you think god o itself is a is a kind of source book on how to be a good educator that we should use the whole year round I think that the experiential education that the the author of the Haggadah managed to create and really he didn't set the agenda it's really based on automatic sources and Maimonides expanded and it helped us really understand and implement this how this night is magical evening where we stand around the table with our loved ones and we are we experiencing what the original Exodus was like through eating and through telling stories and through singing and then ultimately if we're creative enough to be dancing and through acting and through all sorts of playing games and this is what I try to make I say they look like so the chance to capture some of that insider inside us you know a book and that other people could benefit from was just an amazing opportunity so I'm gonna give a shout-out to the magaman family who made both the series of sitter impossible and then this Haggadah and basically Corinne approached him and said we want to do a Haggadah for kids and he has supported it and then Cohen came to me and said you all we want to write it so together with I also want to mention we're not Gilboa is the very very talented illustrator who's created these beautiful illustrations and I'll maybe a little bit later talk about the process of how together we came up with the illustrations which themselves are educational resources should be used in that way and together we we produce this what I'm very proud to say I think is a beautiful engaging that I think every family will benefit from using on their say-so who is the author of the Haggadah what's next what do we know we don't know exactly we call him the ball I gather we don't know exactly who it is it's definitely say no nothing really and it's probably a you know as a as a gathering together the person actually put it together but it's probably not me also it's you know it's a collation collection of thematic sources what they did was and every good educator does as well and the truth is that's what I did in my in my Haggadah is very little of what's in that gather is new or revelation revelation in any way I was just did a great job of collecting things together I'm putting I'm framing them and packaging them in a way that I think families can use what this particular version of the Hagaddah how long have we had it in terms of like Jewish history is this something if do we find her goddess from not another 12th century that people were using the same version like how many generations back and there has been an evolution of the text but it's as far as I as far as I understand it the text itself is and what's actually amazing and beautiful is across all the a dots all the different communities that we have in the Jewish people we're all basically using the same text which is not necessarily the case with art with other liturgies that we right now spray your books etc people have gone more feminist now there's all kinds of different versions of prayer books yeah but the Haggadah two things actually the Haggadah and the calendar because there was some there was some talk a few weeks ago about perhaps changing the calendar pushing off this off for another month but but it would if there's things we can't play around with you know that are really that unites the Jewish people with all our differences and the different ways that we focus on Judaism I think it's really huge that there is a night and here in Israel of course it's one night out in the Diaspora there are two Seder nights but here we have on the first night where everybody is pretty much reading the same book which in it of itself is unifying but the idea of the Haggadah you mentioned talking about leaving Egypt that idea of historical memory that there is an experience that happened 3500 years ago 3400 years ago it was a while down the pike yet we're all sitting and we left Egypt and we are sharing that together how did you get that across to the young generation for whom let's be honest many of the kids today the payers aren't speaking to them and not the traditions are not necessarily speaking to them there's a lot out there in the modern world there's a lot of different ways of connecting to God connecting to the universe disconnecting altogether there's a lot of noise which is interesting today because there's less noise because we're at home and we're more focused a lot of the things that usually distract us perhaps are not there so maybe this pestle is an opportunity to get back to those traditions and to get the kids because that's the next generation it is imperative upon Judaism to have children and to teach them to teach them our traditions do you see what we're all looking at is a tragic situation and most definitely is but do you see this year as an opportunity to reengage some of the young people in a way that perhaps we haven't had before well absolutely you mentioned so many things there that are so essential to what we do on say the night look humans of storytelling animals we we build our identity on the stories we tell ourselves and we tell each other and we tell our communities every society and every community and every religious community this night is the night we get to tell our story and we tell it to the next generation so you are harmless and right there's a certain amount of disaffection that's going on and disconnect between the new generations there always is in every society in every community the beauty of the of the ritual of the you know say the night is actually it's almost universal within the Jewish people you mentioned young people young people's the other day that most people find their way to a synagogue but not all I think say tonight is even more extensive in terms of the number of people vote you know Moute most Jews find themselves doing something on say the night and it's almost like this is the key to understanding what it is that we've how we've managed to guarantee Jewish continuity through those thousands of years thousands of years of Exile in diaspora so say it's not it's so central to it to the transmission of Jewish identity to the next generation I think that if we think about this year I want to say two things first of all I can imagine and I would hope that they're there because we're all um confined to our homes there are less distractions and less kind of um less thing things pulling us to other other things in other places so there'll be people that perhaps wouldn't normally spend an evening with their family didn't say the night where this night it not only is they're not no distraction so they'll do it and it they'll do it but but it's more meaningful because these are times when we were desperate to collect we're so isolated we're desperate to connect to why the society to our people to our community and this is a great way to do it the power of thinking this moment millions of Jews around the world are doing the same thing they're connected to the same story reading the same text it's a very powerful idea so the number one I'd like to think that there'll be more Jews than ever this year during this this ritual night but I also think and this is what I'll be exploring with my children is that I think maybe we're going to connect to the story a little bit better this year because it's thank God it's hard for me and my kids to really relate to slavery but yet being confined as we are this year and limited is something that we really can relate we've lost freedoms to a certain degree we think that that we can always decide what we want to do and when and we just got a big message no you can't yeah absolutely and the story of the exodus is is this is this story of hope that where my sax talks actually beautifully about how this is the story that the Jewish people have given the world and other people in an age where we debate whether we should be expropriating other people's stories this is a story we've given to the world the civil rights movement in America central and inspiring Nelson right Nelson Mandela in it and South Africa and and so many other you know historical phenomenon and historical narratives have been conflated with this story and this is a story that we've brought to the world and my sax describes the Jewish people is the voice of hope in the conversation of mankind so we're all over at a place now where I mean I find myself personally kind of oscillating between hope and despair because you turn on the news and you find out how many people have died we should not know anymore death around the world in Israel and you can find yourself to spare and then the next thing you thought a little bit more positivity they're saying that maybe the measures in is or are working and the we are seeing a reduction in the rate of the spread of the virus this story helps us to realize that there we will get through this there is a light at the end of the tunnel can you imagine the despair of that of the Jews in Egypt at this time and and that this was the end of the story there was a promised land waiting at the end of that narrative and we too will find our freedom again and this story's going to help inspire that hope well what's so great about Seder night for those of my listeners who perhaps aren't familiar with it is that we encourage the children to participate this isn't like a frontal you know the parents are just sitting in the story to the kids it is built into the Haggadah questions the youngest things are said a certain point and the questions the different types of children which is a very interesting part of the Haggadah there are children who are maybe rebellious and there are children who perhaps just don't know and there are children who were smart but sometimes they think that they're so smart that there's nothing for them to learn anymore and so it really relates to all different kinds of children and all of us have kids like that who sit around the table at one point or the other or were kids like that at one point or the other in our lives and it's such an interactive kind of a meal I mean and you get to the meal but it's not really about the meal as a matter of fact one of my sons who went to went to goosh went to deceive English he came back a few years ago with the idea that his rabbi Rebbe you all be noone gave him which is to have the Seder itself not at the table and ever since then that's what my family has done we have the Seder part meaning telling the story part in our living room I cover the couches because they just got cleaned and I don't want wine and crumbs spilling all over them but that's the only time I cover the couches but um but everybody's sitting there in a comfortable chair and in a circle because that's how we set it up and it's true there's no head at the tables footed table everyone's really equal around the table though of course my husband in other years is running the Seder and it's a very different kind of an atmosphere because it's much more of a storytelling atmosphere and everybody's got a little table next to them with their cup of wine and then for the meal itself we go to the table and actually have the meal and so that little difference has made a very big difference in the way that we do that and I don't know if you do that I've know if you familiar with people who are doing that in in how the head and how the evening plays out and then of course we've got the frogs on the table hopefully no lice there are certain things that we don't want to have this year we definitely don't want to have the plague but it's it's almost like a play going on with prizes and this and that so you know how do you do what are you doing your home that kind of brings the kids in old are your kids from raging in what what did the age range so thank God we have 5k is the oldest is 17 she's a senior and the youngest is six he's so you've got all the ages questions and different ways of understanding which is itself challenging well well that's it so you you've mentioned some some of the wonderful elements of the Seder that I think that is why I described the Haggadah as this as this manual of best practice in education you've got the four sons which straightaway tell us not every child is the same every child has their own needs and we have to relate to every child differently whether that be developmentally my six year old my 17 year old are gonna have a very different conversation with us about the Seder and then my challenge as a parent as the person leading the Seder and as an educator is to be able to engage both of them almost at the same time and but so differently differently and that's we in education call that differentiation every teacher has a classroom of 10 kids let alone 35 written we're public school education as our kids are in Israel you know and you have to deal with 35 different kids and 35 is sometimes a good number and so so differentiation is is right there and but I also and I love when we discuss the four sons we will four children I don't think that their sons are taught in their children we talked about the four children and each one of those is a different personality type or maybe each one of those all of us have votes for insiders and this is an amazing discussion that we can have but I also I love as you said the child is the center stage they are their two heroes every say tonight is the child and there's the parent educator and the parent educator is all the parents and all the adults at the table and the child is the center and this is a you know not all education systems put the child at the center so Charles centered education is is that's a best practice and say the knight does it so beautifully so how do I engage all my children it's a challenge sometimes I have a 12 year old my son who's gonna be pleased for Bar Mitzvah in the summer if the world allows us to quell hope here always for whatever happens he's this wonderful kid that's like oh I've got two teenage daughters and he can hold a conversation with them but he's also you know we sometimes forget that he's it is you know almost a teenager and almost an adult and we we think of him as a younger child he wants to be in every conversation and that's the challenges is finding the you know making sure that everyone's engaged and giving something for everyone to do so that's why we use drama we use we do preparation for the Seder we start preparing the weeks before they're doing artwork now right now upstairs my kids do artwork that we're going to share with our Seder table that will kind of you know make it more interactive and more engaging you know it occurs to me because unless something drastically changes in the next week I'm gonna be doing Seder just with adults maybe with one of my adult sons maybe if my daughter can get here from Tel Aviv and my husband and it occurs to me that maybe we can find the child within us I'm not talking about certain people have delayed development issues but I'm saying that as we as we get older we stop asking why when with little kids your little kids my kids my grandchildren now they're always asking why and at some point we stop asking why because we know it already I mean I've been to quite a few star him in my life I'm not so young so is there anything new for me there and perhaps for those of us who are going to be sitting at a seder with just a few adults maybe this is the chance to to do that to look for the child within us and to come up with a why that we wouldn't have asked if we were at a child centered Seder because this year were not and so maybe for everybody there's an opportunity here because it has been foisted upon us a different situation not of our own making and we've lost some choices this year perhaps we can use it as an opportunity to do some things that we wouldn't ordinarily have done I can't make it a child oriented Seder this year I've got to do something else but I still want to make it relevant and I know that for me why Judaism resonates so greatly is because it starts off with the people it's not just one man who had prophet who had a dream we all experienced at Sinai the leaving of Egypt and its Sinai as a nation we experience something together something so deep and profound that it is imprinted itself on our brains for many many many millennia this experience and in these days where we're alone but not alone right like we're each in our own houses but we're experiencing something mankind is now experiencing something together try to know when the last time that happened if it ever happened before if we knew about it because we have a confluence of mankind going through something together and also because we have information all over the place we know so riot I know what's going on in New Zealand I never would have known that before a few years ago so you know perhaps this is a chance to be able to tap into that that Wow of everybody who's going through this together what does that mean and where did like how are you seeing God in this whole picture because you know he brought us out of Egypt he's still with us all the time today some people are tapping it more to their spirituality on all faiths not just Judaism other people are having a harder time I know that there's there it's like what is going on here and how can this be happening how are you seeing that if your kids say to you why like where's Hashem now ABBA what's going on here today how could how could how could Holocaust survivors be dying alone in hospitals right how could that possibly be where is any kind of justice in there how are you going to answer that do you have an answer is the answer Jeff any harder questions I'd like to know what you you you even not invited me here as a scholar of philosophy or as a spiritual tell you what you've invited me as an educator and as a parent educator so uh so that's exactly how I was one which is how you phrased frame for question anyway very fair and in fact funnily enough I just had this conversation with two of my children this morning I am preparing for Seder with them with the Haggadah and I was learning with my ten-year-old daughter and I told son had to butt in because that's he loves to do that but in a good way and we were talking about that very in fact the page of the Haggadah that we were learning together spoke about was talking about Hashem fulfilling his promise he promised that we would go to Egypt and he promised that he would take us out of Egypt and there are many many time acrylic sources that talk about that optimism and when things are terribly bad and that's a fulfillment of prophecies that say that we know things are going to be bad but then if those are being fulfilled then we have to have their optimism and the connection to the to the positive and the hope though some will but there will be light at the end of the tunnel so then my son said just like the Shoah the Holocaust led to and gave us the State of Israel so I said I was uncomfortable and I shared my discomfort with that with him we can talk about the historical processes you know when I teach history we can talk about how the Holocaust definite has an impact on the on the United Nations wrote in the 20 29 November 1947 there's no question that that was in the mind of the of the nations of the world when they voted to crew to create the State of Israel and but am I willing to say God brought the Holocaust so that there would be a state of azar which of us can say what's going on in God in God's head in God's mind and God's consciousness and go to plan and we believe if we if we're lucky enough to have the strength of a man are we believe there is a plan we believe that there is a plan for us that there will be a time we will be able to look back on this there are so many silver linings to this what we're going through as humanity right now I don't want to say that they're worth all the deaths but I can say all these silver linings that the amount of time we spend with like kids and the fact that humanity has been forced back and pollution is now disappearing and all these things that and these lessons that we're learning what is really important in life our you know fantastic jobs and the cars and the houses that we had is that what's important or or recognizing the the heroes among us that are actually saving humanity as we speak so there are so many positives so I take my cue from the thinkers that have influenced me like what sort of a check my rabbi sacks who talked about not try and work out what God is thinking and why he's doing it but rather how do we respond to it and and there's a there's a wonderful Midrash I just want to share with you very quickly that's very central to Rabbi sexist thought that really informs the way I think about these things the Midrash says is describing Avraham or it's a metaphor from when Abraham was chosen by God why alpha hum the Midrash asks well it's like this there was a story of a man who's wandering and he sees a palace that's on fire and he says if this is a beautiful building this palace there must be an owner where's the owner of this palace or where's the money he says where's the leader of this palace the chief of staff the butler whatever it might be and and that's not who who keeps out and waves of him it's the owner the person and the metaphor of this Midrash is that this is like the world the world is beautiful and it's obviously designed and it's obviously created by someone and it's God but God is hiding in the palace where the fire is all around him the world is on fire right now our world is on fire God is peeking out and he's saying I'm the owner I'm the creator but I'm not putting the fire out because I'm waiting for a partnership with you I'm extending my hand to you together let's put out the fire in the world so I don't know why this fire I know and we can come up with a whole bunch of philosophical theological or even just scientific reasons why this the world is on fire right now but it's not going to help us what we need to do is we need to find God and partner with him and putting out the fire and my sex is many times talked about what humanity needs to do now to grow from this and to become stronger so the when we finally get this under control we will be a stronger for it our societies will be stronger our values will be stronger that's that's my approach and we can weave that into the Haggadah and into Seder night because as you said so when it comes to the Haggadah we have the we have hindsight we know that God fulfilled his promise if you were sitting in Egypt in the middle of the fire you were desperate what's going on we're throwing our sons into the night I mean up for goodness sakes what is happening here but now down the line we can see that it actually happens and we will have the faith that whatever it is it's going on here when you're in the middle of all of it you have no idea how it's gonna end we may never know how it's gonna end this may not what's happening here with mankind may go on for a long long time so there's all these seams that we can weave into one night that we're sitting down around a table with whoever is around the table with us and get into the story and how relevant it is even after all these years so because zoom runs out in like half an hour but sometimes they give you 40 minutes I just want to get into the Hagaddah itself first of all if people are intrigued by this interview where could they get this I gotta given that this is gonna be broadcasted with a few days to go before Passover and perhaps they can get it so where is this I gotta available so if you listeners do in America so then they were to play well there are two million places the Cohen website Cohen pub calm mmm-hmm kor en you be calm I would recommend you get the huh goddess from there because then then you'll also be provided with a link to download the parent education is basically me sharing with you all of the educational ideas behind everything that I put in the hi brother and helping you to implement them and use them on satellites I'm in Israel you can also order from current pub calm and and you'll be able to you know your settings will be in Israel and hopefully delivery will be right right they are well but I you know I don't know what the situation in the world is with delivery right now I are something there's not a great chance that you're gonna get the son time for Seder but we're doing the best we can but you can get it for next year because there will be a seder even next year now the illustrations here are phenomenal for those of you listening on audio you can't see it but I will pick this up over here here's just an example of one of the beautiful pages so tell us a little bit about the illustrator and how you were able to integrate you know a lot of I got donut pictures are they've got just a little thing on the corner and these are really amazing pictures who's the illustrator and how did you work together sure so the illustrator is the imminently talented we're not Gilboa an Israeli illustrator we found when I first started my work with Cohen in 2012 we were looking at Illustrated Citarum so I pulled out a search for illustrators and she's someone I can't member who but someone connects me to enough and said there's this really tensed illustrator check out her stuff on her website and we fell in love with her illustrations immediately that was before we met her when we then met her the process of designing and creating and planners illustrations was such a creative process it was it was really very inspiring I was the educator I had some ideas what I wanted the illustrations to do and then she came with her ideas and I had too much to say about the illustrations and she had too much to say about the educational aspects of it it was this typically Israeli Jewish kind of conversation but it was amazing we'd be chemistry was great and I'm and we had some fascinating conversations about things that I want the direction I wanted to go in and she said no I don't want to do that I don't think education it's right and I had to negotiate with her but it was but it was really fantastic and I just what's going on with the government like everybody's got to give a little bit yeah I can give you a great example from the cigarette in a minute but I just want to say that my vision of the illustrations they are not there just to make me look pretty I got a Lucas tonic I really believe it does and it's nothing to do with me it's all about her and our design team at current and but for the for me every illustration has a powerful message and the powerful message is is something connected to the text on the page so the illustration itself I I could conceive of it as an as a commentary in itself and I will be using the illustration on my say tonight as a point of engagement as an educational resource to discuss things with my kids and you mentioned at the beginning how Zionists Corinne is as a company as a brand and that's absolutely true unapologetically and that's one of the things that differentiates it differentiates itself from other publishers in the in the same market and that's why I was so proud and comfortable working for calling Zionism is on almost every page of every sudol that we have created together and Haggadah as well there were some amazing ZUP was any actually just done the one that I was looking at with this morning let me send you to it so you can just have a look and give it a perfect example just find it very very quickly Asians are great for kids who don't yet know how to read and may look at the text and say I'm speaking to me and then you look at the picture 40 to 46 so it's the page where we were discussing nothing the Hashem Hashem keeping his promise and here you have an illustration where you have clearly it's Egypt there are pyramids and it's desert and then there's this pathway and the pathway is our pathway out of Egypt and what's the pathway the pathway is a modern Israeli flag so with my daughter this morning and my son we had this amazing discussion about first of all that represent Eretz Israel the Land of Israel that's where our ultimate destination what is the end of the Exodus story it doesn't end when we leavin it doesn't even end when we receive the truck it actually ends at the ends of the Torah when you are sure it brings us into Egypt into Israel I will meet when we come when we finally get to the promised land but I think by using the this the imagery of the Israeli flag maybe the story of learning and experiencing maybe we actually send in that story maybe the ultimate destination is the modern state maybe where Jewish history is bookend by Egypt and then ultimately the final redemption of which we believe is that religious Zionist we are experiencing now and on the way to so maybe the end of the hug other story is actually modern-day Israel today but we're not there yet because we still are fighting for our existence here and we're still you know and we don't have a perfect society we have to perfect society not all Jews live in Israel yet and we haven't got the Messiah so we're a part of this story so we're still living which means that I get to tell my children you're part of the story you're on the pages of Mikado which is so so empowering and it means that they can connect to this story is not something to happen thousands of years ago that's nothing to me but whether you're a character in this story well I'm also just by living in Israel they're playing a huge role they're not sitting on the side they're there writing the history you know it occurred to me a few years ago when I was whatever I was thinking about the Holocaust and I was seeing survivors who had I'll build the State of Israel and I thought to some degree maybe this is the tycoon I don't know what the proper word in English well how would you translate tycoon like the so what was I thinking of the the the slaves who left Egypt pretty much died in the desert they could not make the transition between being slaves and also being come into the land because we come with Joshua we have to plant we have to fight we have to conquer it's not an easy thing and so that entire generation and when over 20 ends up dying in the desert yet here we have Jews alive today who were slaves who were really slaves in Auschwitz and other concentration camps who were able to come out and find the strength in them and I don't know how they were able to do that and come and build the country so perhaps many many millennia later and because we never know the timeframe of anything this modern day State of Israel is actually some kind of remedy or whatever word we can think of Chacon fixing what that generation wasn't able to do and I'm not judging them in any way shape or form obviously after many hundreds of years of slavery in Egypt but maybe we have seen in our lifetimes the people who were able to go from slavery into freedom and not just go into freedom but be able to build something strong a state with an army and with a health system and worth the forefront of so many things in the world and perhaps you know that is part of the Jewish story as well that every generation is going to be able to find their strengths be able to find what we can do to make this world a better place that wasn't done before even though we have so many precedents for so many incredible people who did so many things that are just beyond thinking by being who we are today and and that that can be very I think encouraging at a time where many of us are perhaps feeling helpless feeling again that loss of freedom that we there's still what to do there's still plenty to do this story is far from being over so you know maybe the end of the Hagaddah is the end of the Hagaddah but it's just it's just one piece of a magnificent story that you and I living here in Israel and raising children we thank God in Israel have been able to have been privileged to have and be able to be a part of all right so thank you so much that Daniel Rose this is really a magnificent Haggadah one of the things that they heard me this year actually because when I got this is I was so excited to be able to use this with my grandchildren and now that's not gonna happen but it's gonna be in my table anyway because it's just really a magnificent book and I hope that that any of you who can get it do so and any new projects and the offing can you give us a glimpse so you don't seem like the kind of guy who just rests on his laurels but you always have something new going on is you have something like kicking around the next project there's nothing official there's nothing official we're hoping we're hoping maybe a Pirkei Avot project I'm also I work with my sax quite quite closely and my sax as you said is very close to the coins I'm hoping there's gonna be some educational family kind of publication with with his ideas okay that's on the British Empire yet at least the Jews of the British Empire and that is wonderful to hear okay thank you so much dr. Daniel Rose I really appreciate the time and you're gonna have to get out of your basement now and go up to the kids okay let's have a conversation next year when you'll be using it with your grandchildren let's focus on next year when everything will be back to normal or maybe even better than normal and that's what it's going to be for thank you so much dr. Daniel Rose this is Eve Harrow I have nothing to add after that I thought that was incredible thank you all for listening to rejuvenation on the Land of Israel Network you can find my old shows if you really are looking for a podcast you can go into my website Eve Harrow calm and find some of my old interviews which are still very very pertinent and maybe even more so today and and be in touch Eve at the Land of Israel calm always happy to hear from you take care everybody have a wonderful healthy safe Passover wherever you may be take care everybody once again thanks to Ben and thanks to Tabitha goodbye for now [Music] this week on rejuvenation with Eve hero an exclusive interview with Mayor of efrat Oded Revathy on how community is pulling together in times of crisis whatever will be the Cure will be the major aid to assist with new ideas and hope that one of them will be the breaking solution when we dispense them the day after Facebook will come out of it stronger and for the full interview click on rejuvenation with Eve hero on the Land of Israel Network