Rejuvenation: Cultural Terrorism

[Music] hi everybody good morning shovel active this is apparel on rejuvenation for the Land of Israel Network it is a beautiful sunday sunday june 24th 2018 the eleventh day of Como's 5778 a beautiful day in new lucia lying and I'm sitting in the home I love how in pretentious Israelis are I'm sitting in the home of I think one of the preeminent archaeologists that we have in Israel and specifically in Jerusalem Gabi barkay for those of you who are familiar with the beautiful silver amulets with the version of the priestly blessing that were found in a place called carefully nome from the first temple period that would be Gabi barkay is digs and he has just done so much to add to our knowledge of Israel and of specifically of Jerusalem in in in in the work that he has done over the quite a few decades but unfortunately I'm sitting with him now in his capacity as the co-director with Sapphira of the Temple Mount sifting projects and which has been in the Temple Mount has been in the news in the last few days and as an archaeologist and as those of us who care about history and about things not being destroyed we're very unhappy with some things that have happened and Gabi bark I was very very charming and said come and I'll speak to you as a professional about what's happening on how I bite on Temple Mount so maybe we'll back up for a minute for those my listeners who don't know what is the Temple Mount sifting project and why did that needs to be started about what 15 years ago or so temple man first of all is the soul heart and spirit of the Jewish people Temple Mount is sacred to Christians it appears over 20 times in the New Testament it was the focus of activities of Jesus in Jerusalem and it is a sacred site for Muslims as well the Temple Mount occupies about one-sixth of the total area of the Old City of Jerusalem and it was in antiquity the largest religious compound of the ancient world now the Temple Mount enjoyed a certain certain status quo of existence of two major buildings of the Muslims the Dome of the rock and the al-aqsa mosque for centuries those buildings were built and the Umayyad dynasty in the late 7th and 8th centuries of the Common Era the situation changed drastically in the 1990s when following political developments the Islamic walk or they religious trust that runs daily matters upon the Temple Mount changed the status quo and since the 90s there are four major structures instead of two there is a gigantic mosque inaugurated in 1996 which was built into a pre-existing ancient structure known as Solomon's stables in the southeastern corner of Temple Mount in addition there is another mosque which was added built into a second temple period space underneath the al-aqsa mosque that is known today by the name of the ancient AXA in 1999 a barbarous act took place when allegedly for a an emergency exit for the illicitly built Mosque of Salman stables a gigantic pit was dug by bulldozers in the southeastern corner of the Temple Mount that pit which was 12 meters in depth and 40 meters in length was dug was heavy machinery without any archaeological supervision the place was messed up and approximately 400 truckloads without and over 9,000 tons of earth were removed from there and that earth was saturated with the history of the Temple Mount one should mention also that Temple Mount has never ever been excavated and every bit of information from the Temple Mount is of utmost importance to establish the history of the Temple Mount which is one of the focal points of Western civilization the earth from that bit was dumped into the Kidron Valley and for the last fourteen years we were busy with sifting through that soil which was illicitly removed barbarically removed from the Temple Mount within that soil we discovered over half a million fines ranging mainly from first temple burial up to modern times so I have taken tourists and I've gone with my own family to the to the Temple Mount 50 it's an unbelievable experience to take a bucket and you wash through the dirt under supervision of archaeologists and you find bones from sacrifices and coins in arrowheads and an evidence of the tremendous human activity on the Mount and even and pieces of the temple of the flooring of the temple something that Gaby barkay was very much a part of along with someone I know Frankie Snyder and putting that together and actually being able to recreate the beautiful floors of Herod's temple but with that comes a great deal of grief that we have access because of this travesty that was done and things that were and things that just dumped into the garbage and I know that already then there were tremendous absurdities where I believed sow seeds Vera was following the garbage so if not the garbage the fill from the Temple Mount that was put into literally the garbage dump finds antiquities and takes them to I believe to court in Jerusalem to say to prove look what's happening and they wanted to arrest him for stealing antiquities that like what is going on here in terms of the the police for the Israeli government who is in charge of the Temple Mount how can this be allowed to happen the Temple Mount is part of Jerusalem and Jerusalem is the capital of the State of Israel so the Temple Mount falls under the sovereignty of the State of Israel and according to the law of Antiquities every such activity that takes place in a declared archaeological site should be done with proper archaeological supervision that was not done in Israel since the reunification of Jerusalem following the Six Day War the methods of the Temple Mount are in the hands of the Prime Minister prime minister in 1999 when this atrocity took place was a hoot Barak and he approved the request of the work for that emergency exit so this is something for which the Israeli government has to be blamed the director of Antiquities of those days they had of the Antiquities Authority the late Emilio he declared then that it was an archaeological crime and a group of archaeologists yourself at the head you created this organization now to try and keep this from happening again in the year 2000 following these atrocities a non-sectarian public committee was established in order to prevent further destruction of Antiquities upon the Temple Mount unfortunately that body which I hoped will not be needed anymore is active until this very day so to come to the present under cover of the last few days of Ramadan last week it'll feature the three-day holiday Israel kind of did elect non-muslims up on the Temple Mount to give them space for their prayers and for their worship and for their holiday and apparently we know from cameras they used that to to further destroy some of the antiquities in the Mount which is why I'm sitting in your living room today so what exactly happened in the last few days in the eastern part of Temple Mount large amount of soil in several large piles still exists the Supreme Court prohibited the removal of that earth and the touching of that earth without archaeological supervision and without checking with archaeologically previous to any removal what happened is that there are many thousands of visitors and Temple Mount during the Ramadan were used up by the work force artists for a catch and they started building seats and and benches out of the stones that were uprooted from these piles and some flattening of the pyres also took place they dug into some of these piles that is against the ruling of the Supreme Court and the police put up a an observation point next to these piles in order to supervise what goes on and allegedly they subject was brought up in the last meeting last week of the king of Jordan King Abdullah who regards himself as a there's an authority over the Islamic work of the Temple Mount and Prime Minister Netanyahu the work actually stopped it was on the small scale the damage is limited so beyond the more limited scope of the damage this time then as you said there wasn't in 1999 there's a bigger picture here that I know that you and I understand living here in the Middle East I'm not sure that those in the West understand and that is the one of getting away with something and it's much bigger than just a small crime there there is a need or an intent on the part it seems of Muslims to to some what I would even say spit in the eye of Jews and of Christians to be able to do what they want on the temple mound and thereby it becomes just their sacred space it's not a place that's holy to all of us you are perfectly right this was an attempt to show who is the boss it was an attempt to despise the ruling of the Supreme Court and to say we the walk we Muslims we are going to do whatever we like and we do not care about what you say this was an attempt to have a catch to use the opportunity of the Ramadan and to use the opportunity the thousands of Muslim visitors and worshipers are on top of the Mount in order to break the law so the rest of us who live in under Israeli law can't do something like this when we when any of us build a home in Israel and we come across antiquities we have to at our own expense have some kind of salvage dig we have to call in the Israel Antiquities Authority and it's understood that the antiquities in this this land where humanity has lived for thousands and thousands of years belongs to everybody but when they get away with it here because the people can try and break laws all the time we run red lights to whatever it is they want we live in a law-abiding society it's up to them the authorities to make sure you don't get away with it otherwise you have complete chaos and Anarchy why is into the Israeli government stepping in here and saying flat out you cannot do this you have to remember that there are people who warn us that the Temple Mount will be the starting point of the third world war the place is very sensitive politically and that is the reason that is the reason and the reason to national important involved involvement there is involvement of the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan who regard themselves as guardians of the Islamic holy places though they have no presence here but the salaries of the walk are officially paid by the crown in Jordan so it is a an explosive political matter and there are always people who whisper into the ears of politicians that this might do so and so and this may cause those in those results in case it is politics in Jerusalem whatever you do and whatever you don't do is political sneezing in Jerusalem is intensive political activity as you can do it to the left you can do it as write whatever you do and whatever you don't do everything is political so politics here intervenes with archaeological methods as it intervenes with all other methods of our life in Jerusalem so for me as just a simple Israeli it's incredibly painful to a to see people getting away with this and also to wonder what has now been destroyed that we can never get back the fact that everything has been all turned up has already taken out of its its layers of context but who knows what has been stolen I can only imagine though that you as an archaeologist as someone who has devoted really your entire life to the preservation to the said first of the from the discovery and then the preservation and the study of the archeology of Jerusalem and as someone as an Israeli whose law abiding Israeli how does your in a different level here I think for most of us and how this would make you feel one has to understand it in a broader context the political developments in Near East which are the result of the swiping victory of Israel in the six-day war the repercussions of that started late and we have the so-called Arabic spring etc do the atrocities started with blowing up of the Buddha statues in Bamian in Afghanistan by the Taliban it went on with the destruction of the Assyrian capitals it went on with looting of archaeological museums in Baghdad attempt also in Cairo there was an attempt in Tunis and it ends with the destruction of the marvellous monuments of Palmyra in the Syrian desert and the execution of the archaeologist who was in charge of these antiquities one has to see the broader picture in order to understand there is an attempt to destroy any any remains which are non-muslim in the in the Near East and the temple man should fall into the same category the subject is a very delicate subject it is a very painful subject and it is something that comes the physical destruction comes also with an ideology which is connected to the temple denial we started in the 90s that the Jews never had any connection to Jerusalem and there was never a temple upon the Temple Mount and the change of name from the noble century of the Temple Mount Kurama Sharif which is now being forgotten slowly slowly by the name aleksef or the entire compound all those changes and the resolutions of UNESCO concerning the non relevance of Jews in the history of the temple mountain of Jerusalem all that has to be taken into consideration so what you're saying is that moving of some dirt is part of a religious war of Islam against Judaism Christianity and anything that is not Islam it is cultural terrorism cultural terror and beyond any doubt one has to add it to the acts of war to the stabbings to the suicide bombings and to all other atrocities which are carried out in the near East without miss without necessarily giving names as an archaeologist in your professional life have you had occasion to speak with archaeologists from the Muslim world from the Arab countries about this and are they taught if so are they torn at all between their professionalism and their curiosity and wanting to discover things from from history and this pull or maybe fear even from their society over what we're just talking about now I'll tell you they walk forth or it is they have a full-time archaeologist in Jerusalem dr. Yusef notch a the DeMatha is a total misunderstood difference in the societies which exist in the Near East we are not witnessing a free democratic society and an archaeologist who knows all details wouldn't say that there was a temple of the Jews upon the Temple Mount because he would come home shortened by one hat if he says or perforated the this is not a not a free society in which everyone is is granted with freedom of speech this is a totally different type of society and one has to recognize it that's what I was wondering if you know at happy hour or something anybody's ever said to you off the record and without cameras and without names that they wish it were different the answer is no yeah deadly afraid that is so sad I mean I'm sorry for them I'm sorry for them I'm happy for us I know that here they were just as excited in Jerusalem to announce the the finding of an Abbasid little amulet a chimera a little like a it's a good luck charm or something that someone had written for Allah from about a thousand years ago in the Gavazzi dig near Jerusalem we're just as excited to find anything from any time period something from the Byzantine period as we are from Jewish periods we in the sifting project which is run by it's a convener and myself for the last 14 years we honor we cherish the entire history of Jerusalem would it be pagans would it be canonized priests realized would it be the ancient Egyptians would it be the ancient Israelites odeon monarchy would it be the Roman Empire of the Crusaders are the different Islamic dynasties were ruled Jerusalem we honor the history of Jerusalem to degree that all civilizations represented here are just the same for us so since I've already have you here can you just tell us from really from your illustrious career what is the most exciting find that you had or the moment therefore you just stands out in your life is the Wow I have no hesitations there is no problem and that the most touching and most interesting piece was the two tiny silver amulets that you mentioned which include the earliest biblical verses that we own to date those are the words of the priestly benediction or the ironic blessing which appear in the Bible in the Book of Numbers chapter 6 that was were found and they belonged to the seventh century BC to some 2600 years ago and this is beyond a doubt a very important discovery and I'm very proud of it was there anything that you were looking for that you didn't find anything you had in your mind that based on research you thought that's tomb or I don't know something the Roman theater whatever it is something that you didn't in the end yet it's yet out there to be discovered the peak of my dreams is to be able to dig upon the temple man but it would not materialize unfortunately neither in my own lifetime neither in the lifetime of my grandchildren I'm gonna hope that on that last sentence you're wrong and I'm hoping that at one point the Israeli government will take control of the scene they're not be afraid it just comes back to me all the time back to my parenting that when I let my kids get away with one tantrum I was setting ourselves up for the next one and that to be afraid to stop them now on the Mount is just going to emboldened them to do even greater things and and that they're the sovereign and they're the real owners of the Temple Mount unfortunately our lives in this part of the world are controlled by politics and we are all subjects political decisions unfortunately I would say that's like that in other parts of the world but here everything is just so much more vivid and so much more intense it is true okay thank you so much dr. Gaby barkay it was truly an honor to sit with you this morning and I wish it was a happier occasion and maybe I would I would look forward to interviewing you if you did get a permit to take on the Temple Mount and that that would be a sign of a new day let's hope so thank you very much they on their a privilege was mine okay everybody I will be right back don't go away somehow Israel has found itself in the center of some of the most dramatic events of this administration the Embassy moved to Jerusalem the Iran deal and now because of the hypocrisy and the anti-israel bias the United States has officially pulled out of the United Nations Human Rights Council the world is changing fast this week on Israel inspired Israel inspired with re Abramowitz and Jeremy Gimpel on the Land of Israel network at the Land of Israel com sharing the truth and beauty of Israel with the world [Music] hi everybody Eve again just wanted to wrap up today's show with a couple of words doctor but I hope you enjoyed the interview with with Bobbi Park I he really is has had had an amazing career he no longer digs he's not as young as he once was and it's hard work that he does supervised and he is busy he told me he's got a staff of about 20 people now that are working hard to publish much of the work that he's done over the years that's know it's one thing to dig and and then at some point also obviously you have to publish and that's a whole other thing to do and and very difficult and time-consuming and he's got a lot of people helping him do that and of course he's still with South Lee devera who's the one who uncovered the travesty on the Temple Mount he's still working with him on the Temple Mount sifting but he also said to me because I I told him that I had interviewed Scott stripling from the Shiloh dig a couple of weeks ago and he said that they came to his lab that people from Sheila came to his lab and so he was able to see some of their finds including a I believe it was a scarab from Pharaoh totnes the third who was up here and around - 1400 in something and that was really an exciting find so the archaeologists get very excited together they work together and and and collaborate and share share their finds on a completely different level of course then it's for most of us and and so he's still very very involved with what is happening and I wish it would be just so wonderful if his dream came true and that one day he would be able to be do a supervised dig on the Temple Mount and we all have our dreams and it would it would show a different reality not just that he got a permit but it would show that there is some kind of really Israel sovereignty on the Temple Mount I would love to say that it would show that there was some kind of respect for everybody else on the side of the Muslims on the Temple Mount but perhaps that is a that is really a pipe dream that I'm not going to see in my lifetime either would that it were it would be a better world for all of us and especially for the Muslims the rest of us are doing okay and they're the ones who are falling off the globe so wishing you all a wonderful week a wonderful safe week and here in Israel and end to the kites and the condoms and all the other things coming over from Gaza the ecological terrorism if you will that's burning the fields with an attempt to kill people in the Gaza envelope and I certainly hope that that is going to end and that there and and I want to end actually this week I want to end this week's show with a prayer for wisdom for our leaders for all our leaders around the world for my leaders here in Israel in particular yes it is really a minefield and and as dr. Burke I said a couple of times nothing happens here without there being some kind of political ramifications but kicking the can down the road doesn't usually work either and it just leaves usually a worse situation for somebody else to handle and so I would really hope that our leaders have the wisdom to understand that a small and painful price now perhaps is better than and world's censure whatever it is is better than a much bigger blow up down the line and so that would be my prayer for this week for all of us have a great week everybody wow it is really really a beautiful day in Jerusalem Eve Harrow rejuvenation land original Network thanks once again to Bennett to Tabitha and everybody at the network if you're in Israel oh I got to throw this then I have a great trip to the southern fern Hills planned for July 5th another trip to Cimarron to Samaria on July 26th and my wine tour August 22nd in shot in the shimmer on in the area of benjamine so if you happen to be here those are public trips that anybody can join run by windows I'll find and you can go on their site and sign up for those trips and I am putting the final touches on my trip to this my next trip to the States in October the end of October beginning of November still with a couple of open dates so be in touch I would first of all love to see you here that's always my favorite but worse comes to worse I'm always delighted to share Israel with you wherever you are so take care of you buddy have a wonderful week goodbye for now [Music]