Rebbi Akiva Eiger & the Chasam Sofer on the Mechanics of באו פריצים וחללוהו

Okay friends, uh I want to focus in this week's share on a interesting point mentioned on namely the concept of the concept of when the wantan ones when the disgraceful ones come into the mikdash they defile it which the garians When they breach the temple it becomes secular. The Gar brought a very interesting concept. Concept was that Rab that Rabar was upset his whole life that he revealed his identity to protect himself. Um let me just get this up. Here, here we go. Taran was upset his whole life that he revealed his identity and he and he used his identity to get personal gain. He said, "I'm Tarfine. Don't throw me into the river." The guy bagged him and was about to toss him in the river. And Taran said, "No, I'm Tarfine. Woe to me, Tarfine." And Raban said, "Um, sorry. Rabo said in the name of the whole life of that sadic he was distressed on this. He said woe to me that I use the crown of the name of anyone who uses the crown of uprooted from the world. And the gar makes the following if used the mikdash. And when he used it, it became secular like it says the wantton ones come and defile it. When they breach it, it becomes secular. And what happened? He was uprooted in from the world. It says on that night was killed. Someone who uses the crown of Tyra which is eternal and is never defiled certainly there's a punishment. So the question that the deal with it is what exactly is this process of wanton ones come and they defile it. By the way, I just you know it's it's relevant to tonight is the 10th of the Gumar says in McGillah that Raban says that if he would have been around when tishab was formulated he would have made tishab on the 10th because the majority of the b mikdash burn were down on the 10th and the says and what do the rabban on hold why do they why did they establish tishab on the 9th Because uh they say the worst part of a punishment is the beginning. So since they ignited it on the 9th the say we should fast on the 9th explains what does it mean the worst part of a punishment is the beginning. Why is the igniting of the bdash the worst part? Because once it's ignited it becomes a secular building. So it's a secular building burning down. So the worst part is the moment though that that it's set a flame because but once it's burning it's not a holy item that's burning anymore. That's the principle that this says that the wantton ones the pitim came in and they defiled the base of mikdash. So the question is at what point does the mikdash lose its sanctity when the nations of the world come and defile it? Like what when does the sanctity vanish? the meaning what what's known as which is not rashi it's just a commentary he says you know when that process begins when they take it out of the temple when they remove the item from the temple that's when it is defiled and it loses its sanctity that's the mafarish the makovas says something a little differently no when they remove it. It became secular at the moment they used it and you could now get benefit from it. So you'll ask well if you could get benefit from it then why was bhatzar punished? No only a Jew could get benefit from it. But regarding those who defiled it, it's as if it remains in its kaduca that they should get punished on it. Otherwise, they're going to be benefiting by defiling it. But the point that we're focusing on is that as opposed to the mafures who says it becomes defiled when they remove it from the premises, the says it becomes defi, it loses its sanctity when they use it. on the page and the go hash we'll try to make this even bigger it's too big now he says look in so says to look we got to listen what does it say there yeah on The gumar there says papa. Now again armor is not rapa. Argam is what does papa say in papa says it says that the were defiled by the defiled. That's you know the humorous comment of why do you eat jelly donuts on because when you eat a jelly donut you definitely make an alamy as opposed to other mazo that maybe you would have to bench but a fried item is for sure an alam mia. So and al you pray for the restoration of the msbayak since the yanum defiled the msbayak. So we we're moer nephesh we risk our lives by consuming jelly donuts and putting ourselves in a situation where we have to ask Hashem to rebuild the mbayak. Okay. Now um Rashi here says something different something differently entirely a third opinion. The mafur says the process kicks in when they remove it from the premises. says the process kicks in when they use the caim here in says as soon as they entered the premises the caim lose their kadusha. The mafar says when they remove it says when they use it says when they enter the premises when the entered the premises that's when it loses its kadusha. So is that a third opinion? So there's a safer that I couldn't get a hold of it. I just I see it quoted in the dafa hand guide. It's called and only has volume one and three. It didn't have volume two. So I had to actually look up some of the sources myself. Can you imagine? And he he quotes that I finally found because it was not quoted in the right. He quoted it from it's infer says something very interesting. Some says that it's not a third opinion when they remove it, when they use it or when they enter. It's actually says in our says when they breach and they use it, it becomes secular. So you could say no that that's only if they breach it. Breaching it means when they remove it from the premises or when they use it, they destroy the temple and they remove the kale. I'm not sure what that's referring to. Then it becomes secular. Says it's learned from um so I'll ask you a question. But the didn't destroy the bas. So how did they defile it? So how is Rapa applying this to the Ivanim? Ah, so I would have said, well, they didn't they didn't destroy the mikdash, but they did destroy the they were the says no mdashd and they left the there and there they worshiped. No, the kale never became defiled. Let's look carefully back in. He didn't say the words. He never used that expression. Why? Because there was no says since they came. So the the it's not a third opinion. It's actually according to what activates this process according to you need destroying when they destroy the temple that's why he says according and therefore it would not apply to what happened in times of on the other hand didn't use the word he just said So it's not really a third opinion. It's really is this process of uh defiling only when you destroy or even if you merely go in there and enter. So that's according to and according to Rashar that is quoting is not a third opinion. It's expl he's he's explaining the opinion of Rapa. Rapa says as soon as you enter there's a defiling. By the way, just point out it's whether this procedure could actually be performed by Goyam or only Jews could do it. Meaning do we say that only a Jew has the capacity to defile? And in the times of Kaneka, it was the Msavnim, the Helenists that did it. But a gentile doesn't have the capacity to actually cause something to lose its kadusha. But that's a separate topic. And uh on that note, I wish you a wonderful night and an easy fast. And I'll see everybody back next week. Hashem, >> the recording stop. >> Thank you. What I mean?