Zionism #4: Extremism within the Satmar world isn't sanctioned by their Rebbe - R Yoel's letter

okay so we're on page I think sadik is that right yes bottom paragraph okay let's go on so is has written to this fellow so far that be honest with yourself you know ER remember that if was if you if it was your own wward son you would bend the other way and number two he says that it's not bending the other way just having a ro and that the had for every Jew and therefore he Tau have for every Jew and to to live with that and yesterday's year we we learned that that um there's different uh ideas in movements in kirov including uh you know popular organizations Etc you know is it um is getting a you know mileage out of what you're doing etc etc so that was yesterday's discussion now let's let's now let's say yesterday spoke about the other K organizations now he speaks about however bottom of page 91 he says all of the discussion how kir of organizations in general as a generality deal with kir is not relevant to the the way he approaches being Jews because these activities there isn't of prohibition as the Satur claimed there is so that's right away off the bat he tells you there isn't there isn't God forbid a of conceding you know it's like um it's not pro prohibited but uh you know we're going to we're going to really we should be learning and we're going to take some time off to do some K so the r said the r says that's not the view of K of of Outreach Al and there isn't any conceding even uh the slightest me is the slightest partic particular detail that seems to be totally ancillary not important of enacted by the by the rabbis by the by the by the we're going on to page and the reason again he just repeats the nuda the reason why it would be allowed to concede on a leniency that's non significant is for the benefit of Judaism and that this again contributes to your point mha uh contrary to your point I should say on the contrary according to the opinion of the and that's a that's a beautiful dougl emphasis there is a you have an obligation to do K turn please y please turn off your your your your your mute yourself please it's all right it's all right so theb says says that the re in Outreach is that there's a to go and reach out to someone else writes before I will explain explain this I must give a a short preface yes just like the feeling of love for another Jew if it if it leads to things that are contrary to this proves it's not true love of another Jew rather it's the feeling and the expression of the negative side he says the exact same thing is what's happening when one claims I'm being I'm doing this because I'm a zealot I'm a Cano Cano [Music] this if if we were to if we want to concede on a detail in order to fulfill this that's not aoi what's aoi aoi means what's a I'm not conceding on an aoda if the attitude of K is that you're conceding on on aota for the greater benefit you're not a kanoi you follow the logic or not got I got to make sure you you get the logic because before is saying that think about it this is not Cano this approach that we mentioned before is not zealotry on the contrary it's the opposite of zeelot tre it's conceding this is the greatest proof this type of zealotry that you're displaying to hate a Jew who reaches out to another Jew is not it's rather a feeling of the bad side of the evil side what is true can right cuz they're always going around saying we're forem we're like P says you know is to put effort with all kinds of effort to do whatevers that's that's Cano one second his can is to do what hasem wants even if your feeling is it's not it it's it's it's not the right thing to do when you put yourself outside and you do it because hasem said so you know you're a Cano for the words of hasem even though it goes against your grain then you're a true Cano yes yes sir so um I want to I don't know maybe take exception or um go a little deeper into this anytime you take a uh let's say an extreme approach to one thing anytime many times right you are going to be you're going to be M on something else for example the from while you famously responded to somebody who said why are you so make on chabas he says I'm not make on chabas I'm m NE right famous V yeah you do you you have there's a balance and and if you go to the extreme on one it means you're going to you know be less focused on what detracts from that so therefore can finish your thought therefore therefore when he says aoi is going to beo on everything thing I think that the the natural history of things is that you can't that that you know no is what he means whatever is in your purview as what God wants that's what he means by everything what whatever you consider to be what Hashem wants that's considered the the Cano by you by you he's not saying that he's not saying that this is a truism for every person like you said for salic that was his view of kis and and and and others disagreed just the opposite because for them they had another view of canis but but the underlying principle is is the same in in all and and including what R is saying he's saying is if you're a for theem whatever your view of darem is then you put aside your feelings so he's telling this the if you're a real Ki put aside put aside your personal feelings towards the now now of course the SAT will argue it's not my personal feelings it's what God wants I'm commanded to hate I'm so so so already addressed that earlier probably going to address it later on that you're making a mistake I'm sorry that there's no there's no all that is not included yeah you understand so that goes back to a different argument that goes back to a different what' you say is not yeah yeah so so so that we discussed that I don't want to repeat just you know CU we have to go on so so you know we had a long discussion about that that you can wear yamak with a beard and and everything else and and you think you know and and and you really don't know yeah you know shabas you're supposed to keep you know so that's right so their view their view excuse me the's view is it they don't go they don't delve in they say look you're living in you you know what the you what you know what chabas is okay and you're letting buses go and tell shabas you're a rusher he I maybe he learned wrong inab maybe didn't go to a to a to AA to a b medish maybe he's maybe they just I don't know if it's true they they found that uh one of the people's wives is involved with yoska I don't know if it's true it's not true maybe it was a lie but for the elections my point is there's so so many unknowns that to delegitimize someone be because you know it's a simple fact and you're going da against it I'm not saying it doesn't exist by the way I'm not saying it doesn't exist I'm not saying that the m is RA see and not justad butab is and it'll come out here in the letter the m is RA not the person and that's really the Crux of the Matter Where where the Kim they say that the person is RA not evil not just the act and what does kabad say and those that follow that philosophy not that the person is evil the ACT is evil so when we talk about Cano the question is is there is the Cano against the act or is the Cano against the person H you wanted to say something yeah a comment and a question um it seems to me that there's a particular y that that so many of us have to want to to to to say circumstances require me to be above the law outside the law and uh uh and uh that and I think that he's sort of putting his finger on that there's a z in in this week's para that the brings it says that that about Lo that Lo went uh went with is the name of a certain is the name of another is the name of another it occurs to me perhaps this tendency towards Canal is the of who who has this potential that we see by by uh by by sedom of sort of taking things out of context being willing to do something something Usher and evil uh in order to avoid some other uh in order to avoid some to fulfill another kind of principle I hear you and the question I want to ask the word Kan uh I I I assume it comes from lanina is it is it is it a term that's in the Torah itself or in the T itself of course by P of course rash brings for theor but is that is the source for okay let's go [Music] on oh sure sure sure I'm sorry page sadic B 90 two we're now at the um we are at the third second paragraph let's read says to to to our to our even when you explain to them very well and you show them sources that sometimes certain conditions he says you could find that that you're allowed to the commentary say that in certain situations you're allow to be of Sinners of Israel nevertheless they they attack with all shouts screams of of disgrace okay I need you to to put on your your your your thing mute yourself please please is who put on your thing please um they they they disgrace the people even though shown explicit laws it's not that they argue you know I have a different understanding of this particular law these is these denim that I'm referring to says are clear that you cannot interpret any other way he says they scream without any com sense without any you know use of of of and they say sh sh is R they say and you guys hear this you are from the cat the group The Cult Yi of you come from the S the the angel of death and poison and all that we won't let go and we won't allow you to infiltrate and they say to the person who says look let me show you that you're even even you're allowed to be of someone in a certain situation etc etc even though he's a by the way what what is he generally alluding to AB to the concept of people who are considered in the category of that by the way is not just a thing brings in this TR and and other much discussion and many many in and people who write respons there's so is alluding to saying even if we were to show the the that this person is in the G we says you're allowed to be they say I don't care I don't want to hear etc etc what is their only justification and their argument it's not fitting for AI to accept logic so I don't care about your logic I'm a in other words you hear the point it's such AAL Point I've put myself in a category of being a zealot so therefore zealotry equals being makes this point many times I heard it from him like being stupid a zealot L to be stupid and ab says that's not what a zealot is not a stupid not a fool a stupid means I don't says I don't want to know about I don't want to be informed I'm a he's saying that's not KO don't Bo what H what don't bother me with the facts My Mind Is Made Up exactly well said right to the [Music] point so by the the foundation isn't what drives them is like the like he said my mind's made up that's it and in this detail theim he says are similar in this detail to the to the Orthodox organizations that where they go and they make compromises on many because of their to hate another Jew you understand like like like his said they're they're saying I have OB you know I have by hating him because he's a Russia I'm doing what the Ty says I love him by hating him so they we all saying that's so absurd and what they're doing is they are they are conceding on a detail of T which is an important detail having true love and care for another Jew because of their Cano so what's the difference saying that we don't need a for now and later we get a and things like that conceding that way or conceding another way or conceeding with your STL and your pis and your beard and and and hating a Jew there's no difference in the quality uh of what's going on he says a friend of he once explained to several how the the style the path the approach of is according to without any a of concern of all regarding being and when saw they didn't have what to answer they they saw that right because he showed he showed them clear is the acronym no the commentaries that you know they told my friend all your proof that you bring me from the open it's all an expression of the of the negative side we're not listen to your arguments it's all coming from the evil bad side for and they added quote inish g m l you're approaching this whole topic of K and and with scholarship lus was also a Torah scholar so don't bring me proof with Scholars and proofs from that's you know sophistication sh was a sophisticate intellectual Torah Jew and look what it led it led to a heresy and he continues you're purifying a a a a creature a a a a creeping creature which is makes you T it's a famous expression with 150 reasons I'll justify why I sh right normally times Bas you touch a you become right the Torah says but I'll explain you with 150 reasons why you're allowed to touch the sherids because he's so intellectual so this s these s said to this laure that says a friend of his he said you are like a like a Jew who's being M A Sher with 150 reasons behind this is what hill just said a moment ago what's going on over here in this discussion he says is that they come into the discussion with a preface with a predisposition that every IDE something expit that doesn't sit well with the the way they feel their and and want to be it's negative it smells the smacks of and after this introduction next page it's contrary to you're forbidden to make a general sweeping opinion and statement about an entire holy congregation without you know checking and going to a and having Witnesses you're forbidden to listen to prove of someone who's a ker that's what they say this is all their argument they say I'm not all to listen to you you know why you're a CER because anything that's not is I'm not going to listen to you so therefore I I discount anything and everything you say says what's the question is what is the foundation the premise for their attitude that whatever doesn't correspond to their feeling of what's their Source buddy seemingly seemingly the is showing you that it's a clear that you're allowed to be maybe he's right no but you don't even give him the the benefit of the doubt and you don't even entertain it why because in your mind he's AER so a is not allowed to listen to AER just like you're not allowed to listen to sh and the fact that they say that also was a scholar and theen didn't want to listen to his proofs which he brought from K to justify yes says because that's true right he says that example of is not relevant to our situation and and Monday we're going to learn the difference between the true of and the on the of Eden you know he has to you know in a way it's like so hurtful that he had to me he has to stoop so low stoop so low and and and and let's say address this issue but that's but that's exactly what he that what he does here because that's where they're coming from if you don't address these issues which you know probably listening you saying this is like absurd the is like being because the M of Jews I mean are you out of your mind yeah that's the way they think I don't mean when I say they I I want to make I don't mean everybody you know what I'm saying this sh the sh of the there plenty of s and others that are not that way yes y question though this when he wrote this do you know what year this was written in I I believe I believe in the early 80s 80 to 83 I I I think this written maybe in 83 but some that time so can you imagine if this was written in 83 when the rebel was alive correct was alive yes can you imagine what it would be if he would write it today we're we're we're everything that we're saying now is a h hundredfold you know because then there was no right was was only only other stuff but now it would be on a whole different level this would be like for them are you kidding the biggest zet um I I I have to yes say that that that's a point well taken that's right but but but knowing R and I knew him well he would explain the difference between the you understand and and you don't have to be to understand that because like I said over and over on our for the last five years Count Me You Can Count Me on the hand okay listen you know I'm not n but I I I I've been toas and I've been foring theas there and I see the young kids by by here they come and I saw them on the plane you know it's not sh it's basically you know we're doing something wild and crazy to keep to keep it alive again I'm not saying that's the way it should be done but that generally count you can count on the finger on finger how many people saying no we don't have to fast anymore and anyone like that is really an a a a heretic and Aus and totally out of his mind but that was a blown up uh uh blown up issue that David Burger may he be well live be well brought to the table in his book against kabad and all that where he he he sold a bill of goods and he tried selling it to the mo who approached me one of the main RAB RAB RAB whatever from the and he came over to me and he said what's this you know and he got a letter from from or a call from from from burger and I told him he believes that kabad should be banned ostracized because not eat their not drink their wine because of M and all that they believe that the Reb is God and things like that and and I said that's not the case it's you know it's definitely not conventional and I don't agree with it but but you know and he said yeah don't worry I we're not going to be doing that anyway but I just wanted to uh you know so like I said there's a there there's there's the concept and different things but you're right you're you're right that theim would use this to fuel their argument if that's what you're saying y I agree with you you you follow anybody else uh have any thoughts or want to say something okay anyway uh we're going to go back for those that didn't hear I'm on the on Monday to uh to a quarter to 3 your time okay so remember that yes Hill you want to say something no I just want to wish everybody a good shabas thank you everyone should have a great shabas and only only good thing Z we'll see you guys byebye take care thank you good