Tanya Kuntres Acharon 8c- Breslov vs Chabad: Isolation vs. Meditation - Rabbi Chaim Dalfin

learning ess he he chastises the p the people but what is dvening how should how should a Jew davin how should he eat davin and that's what he gets at gets to right now um this would be It's the bottom of page 387 of lessons in Tanya. This idea of davening is an obligation for all for all who understand the efficacy. Even if one just has a partial a little profound understanding of meditation, you don't have to be a a rocket scientist to know the details of meditation to understand that meditation is important when you dab them to to reflect. And he adds a very important line everyone according to their means. You can't say listen meditation means like my friend Yankl my friend my friend it's not the way it works the the the the is delay it's our own measurement so in other words and and I've seen this and experienced it there are people that can can reflect and meditate we're talking about real reflection without interruption of other things coming into the mind because once that happens you've broken the meditation and the reflection see I I I want to back up for a second I don't know if I we just spoke but I think we did but it's good to repeat it when we talk about meditation inus and I would I would say there are some idea similar ideas in other forms of meditation ation that are mentioned in other uh groups. One thing's for sure that if in middle of your meditation you think about what's for supper and how much money you have in the bank to cover and when do you have to take your kids to school that's not meditation. You're you're out of meditation. You were you might have been in meditation and now you're outside. Now can you go back? Sure. But the the problem is that for im for meditation and davening to be effective to really stimulate your davining which then stimulates your heart your your heart which then stimulates your behavior you need to be there. And if and and and if all of a sudden you're not there then you're not there. No pro doesn't mean you're a bad guy. It just means you're not in the mode of kabad meditation, Jewish meditation, kosher meditation, arapla meditation, whatever. So, so and this is not simple. This is not simple. That's why I think I told you when I was 17, 18 years old, a young bucker in yeshiva and our mashia brained one night. I'll never forget this cuz he left such an impression on me and he was saying do not meditate. Do not think in kabad. It's called thinkingidus. Don't think be before you start more than five minutes. And you know and I was uh a bucker and I was you know top bucker and I was into this and you know I was a top of the game and why five minutes I want to think a half an hour. Why is the mashia limit putting a cap on my thinking ofas before doing I remember I was asking myself and he repeated it during the faba numerous times. So I went over to an older bakr. Well no older bakers we always had in the yeshiva older bakarim who were kind of learning themselves but also guides for us younger bakarim. So he said to me, I'd like you to to think two a minute or two or whatever he said without an interruption outside of that meditation, then come back and talk to me because it requires training that the mind focus what we call Hebrew focus to to to focus and concentrate of your thought on that thought that you're thinking about. Then the question is what are you thinking about? Even someone who is thinking what is he thinking? I mean pira shamillos is not meditation the meaning knowing the meaning of the words that you say in davic is not meditation that's petos like in English you say a sentence and you don't know what you're saying that you have you're like you're mixed up know what you're saying so therefore there's a before there's a after there's a during there's a future present understand it past. So Peter Shamis is simple text. I mean simple text really begins with the pronunciation correctly of the words. Number two once you correct you pronounce correctly the words you you learn to know their meaning. That's number two shamillos. Number three is where the kabad meditation thinking kicks in which is now take a thought in that you've learned and you've mastered and you understand and now think about it. So the suggestions are to take a line or two of Tanya or from a mimemer and to think it not to speak it to think it and not allow anything to enter your mind during that thought. Now you tell me how easy or difficult that is and and when you master that then you add another minute. And so this is the training that we got in yeshiva when we were you know teenagers to thinkid. So when we say meditation and that is always talking about his bonus right what's one of the primary cardinal differences between and breast is his bonus versus his boedus. His bed is a key element in breast lift teaching which is being alone his date right in kabad we don't find that uh teaching in kabad we find an emphasis on his benus meditation reflection. So in the alterb here and and and so many other places speaks about his he says and it's it he says it's an obligation look at his words it's not my words his words it's a biblical obligation now it doesn't mean 613 not yet you'll see soon to to to use your mind and to and to have to to utilize the benefit of his meditation. And in other words, even if you're not a full meditator, you haven't mastered that, but you can begin training your mind to stay focused. and this this this idea and and then he says why does he add those words? Because we're all different and each of our minds works in a different way. And the the I' I've seen in my lifetime people that are able to to to be Miss Banan and and for a long time and really and really come up come away with a a deep understanding a deep reflection on on on the issue they're meditating on. And then I've seen people that can't but they have enough of the his abundance to stay focused to concentrate better in their domining. Okay. So can't tell you there's only one style for his bonus. It's not true. the the general the general guidelines are kind of in kabad one system one approach right for example in certain groups I think also primarily in breastliff there's this concept of maybe repeating a word and and and things like that we don't find that in kabad we don't see that in the language of the balatany in the five sections that we've learned Okay, we don't find that. So that's a different style. It's a holy style and not, you know, but it's not the kabat meditation. What Ari Kaplan did for those that read his books, which I would think some some of you did, Jewish meditation. Kaplan, who lived, by the way, only a few blocks away, and who my mother Shalom and his wife were friends. So uh Kaplan does an interesting thing in his book Jewish meditation. He combines kabat and breast and maybe some of Rafkuk in his Jewish meditation. So you know one can't say Kaplan is pure kabad meditation. One can't say kaplan is pure breastlift meditation. It's not. But he had he had such a vast knowledge. He was so bright. He was a genius that he he in other words he did not limit himself to a one discipline. He took several disciplines and he combined it which is fine but I'm just saying that you know so people have asked me over the years you know is is Kaplan's Jewish meditation kabad meditation. I said it has kernels and ideas included in there but it's not pure kabad meditation just as it's not pure breast meditation because breast really doesn't focus on meditation as much as um isolation his bodus now what Kaplan did is interesting and this would be I I'm not I don't think this was ever studied what Kaplan did was he kind of takes out of and he he inject in to injects in them meditation. In other words, in breast it formed, it doesn't it doesn't seem that there's a emphasis on meditation, right? But Kaplan doesn't doesn't do that. He he he kind of he try he puts kabad meditation into breast of Torah, which is um an interesting phenomena. And again, I I'm not I'm not Mr. Bucky and Breastliff, but the Rabbi Kaim Kramer. There are several inro that are. I think uh you know, it would be interesting to see, you know, how they look at what Kaplan did and if they believe, you know, that's staying authentic to Abn's approach, what he wants. I I haven't studied it, so I I don't know, but I have a hunch that it's not. in kabad meditation from what I've seen and heard from mashim older and younger and I I I'm I'm very impressed with these young mashiam they come here to borrow park tonight we're having a fab with a young guy from from Nyak New York you know he's one of the mashiam there I have no idea who he is I know the family name and and I see that they're staying consistent to the kabad system that's very they don't deviate away in other words they don't deviate way I'm talking now intellectually how they look at a mimemer how they look at and how they use it in their and how they share it with people I I I I find that very uh commendable because it's it's easy to you know to deviate not not in a negative way but it's a deviation it's not pure kabad thought and I see that they're trying to keep to pure kabad thought which is um very telling of of these people and I'm not saying everyone's this way but the people that are immersed in this system which is a a feather in Kabad's cap by the way that the new generation the the new leaders the new mash and the new teachers are are are getting the nakuda of the alterba and the mitereb you understand they're not they're not creating in other words I don't see them doing what Kaplan did you hear me what Arya Kaplan did in Jewish meditation to meditation they're not doing that they they're staying on the kabad track and only on the kabad track and again their their audience one second their audience is kabad you know and they I mean we had here for Gibble Thomas, someone who came to frame. He's a mashp, excuse me, in Marstown. And again, you know, he's much younger than I and I was listening to him and even, you know, challenged him on a few things and it was a nice lively discussion at the bring. But he's on track. He's really on track. Yes. Misha. Yeah. I just want to ask Rab and I know in a way all I'm sure all of us are very familiar with it but I'm curious if you can help to define a little bit just the difference because sometimes it can be very can be a very fine difference a very fine line between his I don't know I to me I think it's it's it's a very not fine line it's a very uh large line it's it's very obvious his means talk to talk to Hashem and tell him what you need, what you are, who what is his bonus is you take you take a you take let's say the these lines in Tanya that we just read and you you start thinking about them and you think about them. It's not about talking, it's about thought. It's completely different. That's number one. Number two, even if there is some form of thought and not even the thought that's that's there in his more of a kind of practical orientation here it's not about here it's about think about God in other words meditation that's why most people don't do it is in a way very ethereal, very mystical. It's like throw your mind into God. So the average person will say what what am I going to have from it? What are you wasting my time for? And I and I understand the argument because I myself has questioned myself and question my teachers. What is the purpose? But only after you allow yourself to go through the process of focusing and thinking about a line or two in Tanya without saying how is it relevant to me. See that that doesn't belong in a meditation and that's a mistake people make that either comes or doesn't come automatically. That's not part of the kabad meditation. A kabad meditation is who is God? Who am I? How did God create the world? why they create the world and and to have the formula for those things and to think in it. So we have Yeshin creation xilo. We have ilo cause and effect. What's the difference? Give me some examples. And this is what you're thinking about. Completely completely not in the breast uh handbook. Completely not. Not only not in the breast handbook in any other group. They have a very different approach. And that's fine. That's why this is kabad and this is breastliff. It's it's it's two different systems. Now, so your your question is coming from I would say from what you you see in here on the street and and over the last 40 years, but you know, if you were to ask your son, I I I would think he would be able to to identify and understand exactly what I'm talking about because he sat in in a lab at the age of 1920, 21, 22 and and I'm sure that he heard this, he learned it and and he he you know whether he does meditation or not he understands what we're talking about. So it it's it's only when you you are experiencing it and you can doesn't have to doesn't mean you could do it at 5060 without going to to the Baba to yes but there's a system there's a system and uh so his is I don't know that's to me what is what are you guys do you have anything to say about this question that Mos Yeah, I have no I I'm pretty clear on the difference, but I have a question which is that, you know, I've heard that you should learn before you d learning before you dound to me like it's not the same thing as his absolut his bonus. You're 100% you're 100% right. You're right. So as you were now as you were speaking so I was thinking oh I read this very interesting s and it's talking about and bum if you write one on top of the other and you divide left and right and then what's the antidote is the ahava and year of Torah and you split them in half you read that's a very interesting thought but even that sounds like not what you were talking about his bonuses but it's right you're right on that too okay you're 100% Right? That's learning a good thing to to learn and to think about, but that's not his bonus here. O Israel, God is our God. God's the only one. You don't need more. You need to think now what is listen here. Am I listening? How do I listen with? What am I listening? Now you start thinking about that now. Not you you make up your own ideas. It what does what does say about then you go to the next word is yes. Okay. So so one of the things I remember from Arya Kaplan's book is he's talking about Estray and you know spending a lot of time on each word of the first three paragraphs. Yeah. And when you're right and when you're saying Eloai Abraham, okay, perm is the God of Abraham. But there's a whole lot going on behind that of what that really means. Elo Abraham versus Eloh versus and what each of those represent in Hashem's needs in the world. And you know if you could is that more on the line? It's it's more on the line, but that's a first of all, thank you for that example, but that's an example of how Kaplan mixes together the the the streams of his his boness, right? Because what I'm hearing the way you said it and in the name of Kaplan is more the breastlive orientation towards the his his boldness of breastlive in that's what I'm hearing in Kabad. It's true what you just said. There's a difference between but that that that's not his bonus that that's in a sense more the god of Abraham the god of Isaac the god the same god so what's the difference so oh is isim okay to fine that's not that's not what I was saying before about I'm saying is The K Ara means the God of Ara. Who is God? Before before you know love and fear and attraction and who is God? Do I know what God is? Do I want to know what God is? Let me try to understand what God is. It's so what you're doing is you're creeping up. Kabad's abundance is getting lost in the unknown. It's going up. breastlive his bodus his bundus is going down. It's a different orientation. So in other words in in kabad it's what we call stripping of the material of the physical. Your your your your physical mind is encapsulated and limited by whatever it has. Now get out of that. undo it, take off those those garments. It's it's a very different process. It's getting lost. Getting lost in the unknown versus try to find out more of what's known. It's two different two different now. So, so I don't have to inad you don't have to, you know, to know the difference between the three. that is kind of more pure. You You just said something and it says three times. It should say it doesn't say that. What do you mean? Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob each have a different god. Come on. Oh, so I have to understand that. Right. So that that's an important but that's more in the from the kabat perspective that's called pamilis what are you saying know the meaning of what you're saying goes a step be before that what is this who is thisu what's hashemu I've got enough hashem six different kind of six different thoughts encapsulated in that one sentence. And so it's it's a different process and there's no question that it's a much harder process. It's no question about it. But the we're talking now, you know, between ourselves, he wants a and he says a ye can. This is the the the the the significant part is alterba believes that we all can do this. We don't have to be a rabbi and a scholar and have gone. He says if you just want and he says we should want to make our dabing animated for it to be it to be alive and to and to make us move and and to animate us about and excited and and say we love you God like famous comes out of our brain and he says I love you God like Who was he talking to? I love you God like you know in other words he had this fab and he had this meditation and he came to the realization and it was a big a big that he really loves God. So it's it's a it's um I don't know if this is similar but it's like um last Shabas I told you I was in Long Beach for a uh Shabaton. So of Shabas, they start chabas 7:00 early. So I called my wife cuz she she didn't go. She was with her mother who was not doing great anyway. So she was there for Shabas, my her mother. So, so I um called the wish to good chabas and she she she you know says to me on the phone uh we're saying to Hillim you know is Hebrew which means basically in that context it means you know it's almost all over and this is the call er of shabas before I go into a shabone So I what what should I do? I got a Shabbat tone, you know. So I, you know, put the phone down, turn the phone over. I didn't want to see anything on Shabas. Okay. And and Hashem I was able to not think about it on Shabas. Shabas sim Shabas is and Shabas the moment Shabas over I tell the rabbi that I was staying with him. I I have to, you know, I'm dealing with an emergency blah blah blah. I was now dreading the moment I'm going to turn the phone on to see what's on the phone. I turn the phone on and it there's no uh there's no news. And then I I I then I called my wife and she says, "Yeah, she the morning was was very hard but then she got better in the afternoon and I mamish felt a that moment only for a moment this elation and sima like coming out from death to life just in that one moment because I'm going into shabas with those words saying I'm which implies death dying and Mat Shabas there's no message and then when I call her she says yeah this you know it's like wow so these are moment experience that can't be repeated you can't put it in a box you can't write a script they happen when they happen and then they go and either you in take it in and it really does something to you or not. Um, Rabbi Lipker from Bal Harbor who passed away just a few months ago in 1981 I think May of 81 he had a 46 minute yidas with the Reb. It was unheard of in those day. First of all the Reb stopped Yidus really in 1979 but the Reb wanted to speak to him. He was going through uh a rough time in in Florida. So 46 minutes. He was 36 years old at the time. He is a full-fledged laber. He's not about the shuva. He's not a gave. He's not anyone that needs kiru. You know what I'm saying? Someone that you got to you got a pat on the back. So they they they still stay involved in all that. He's a lubab from Russia. you know, he they the family went through communism and Stalinism. They're made as hard as rock. You can't break them, right? So, he needs 46 minutes of the Reb's time. Obviously, the answer is yes. And I'm listening to these videos of how he talks about this is a few I think within a month of his death, he talks about that experience and I because I know the background. So, I'm listening and I you know, it was like Yeah. at at in 1981 the Reb gave him a new life but he was a vessel and he accepted it. In other words he he he didn't give up. He was in a was emotionally in a very difficult state and he and and he and the Reb's words to him gave him such an uplifting that he took and he he went with it and he created what he created the next 40 to 50 years which we have today. Right? So and and he says it it was like that that and and and he said something phenomenal on his settle on his note. Guess what he wrote? Oh so he come one second. He comes he waits line to go in and Rab Groner is there. Rab Groner says to him no long no long time with the Reb. No long time. So he says okay. Okay. So, Groner says, "Let me see what you wrote." He didn't want to see exactly what he wrote, but let let me see how many pages you're going to give the Reb to to read cuz Groner suspected him of having three, four, five, six pages, which in the past he he wrote that cuz he he was an activist and he did a lot of things and a lot of things to share with the Reb. So, he says, "I don't want to show you." So, of course, Rab Groner gets more answer and he says, "I'm not going to let you in. I'm not going to let you go until you." Now, he knew Groner was Groner wasn't going to do that because he scheduled to go in and it came from the Reb. The Reb said he wanted to see Lipker didn't come to Lipkar. So, of course, he's going to let him in. But, Gron was playing hard ball. So, he says, "I'll show it to you." Because you know, Rab Lipka says, "You got to listen to it. It's online on this kind of this uh YouTube clip." Libka says, "I'll I'll show it to you, but from far away. I don't want you to see what I wrote." So he says, "Okay." So he shows he stands back, he takes out his paper and he shows and you know, and then he tells on the video says, "You know what was there? Just my name Shalom Bear Ben something." on a piece of paper. Everything is blank except his name. That's what he gave into the Reb. And the Reb spent 46 minutes with him because he says that he he was at a point in his life where he didn't need to say anything. I if you know he knew that the Rebel will will say what he needs to say. Okay. And he says Reb asked him two or three things during the 46 minutes and the rest of the time he the Reb was talking and he was listening. Then he then he tells explains says how he was looking into the Reb's eyes and the Reb's eyes looking to him and he says it was like this the sun shield was removed and and and he just he just held his ground looking into the eyes of the Reb and the Reb was talking to him and did not did not flinch and go like that. It's very intense. I mean, I know about that cuz I had it with the option of a reb and buy it for gun. When he gives you that and and he and he looks into your eyes, you feel like I could drop that right here. It's like you're face to face and he's intense. He's not smiling. So these moments and so his bonus why am I saying his bonus is is coming to such a place in your soul where there is that intense pierce p piercing look of you into God and God into you and that takes a that takes time it doesn't happen one day it could take years but if you train yourself in this method after years something will rub off something will This is a good conversation. I know we went over but but it's an important one. We never really got into it. So hopefully uh Mosa you will also find that this is a difference between breast and and and kabad. And I I shouldn't say breast there's no other group and that does this type of misbondist. And by the way they disagree with it. They that was one of the what was rabbis who fought with the alterb who disagreed with and and and you know the time it was this wasn't besides that they didn't feel should be publicized to everyone but this idea of his abundance they said it's not for the average person and alter said it is for the average person said a person has a mind and a person has a soul and a person can if he wants to come to the greatest visas with hashem them through this way. They said emulate the rebba um know some of the groups know the the the names of god associated with each bra right so I told you my friend the breer invas makes kdesh it takes him a long time to make kdish because he's thinking about the shame hashem as it is in the kdish then when he makes another braha he he says it slowly he's thinking the shame hashem on the shahak because the nikudas are different that's all kabul And that's another system, but that's not the system we're talking about. I tried my best um to explain it. I hope I I succeeded a little bit. Yes. Y what are you saying? I have to tell you I have to tell Rebi. I have to tell it's very interesting because this shave for a couple of days. We were up north. We went to Meron and for I was in and I was in we were invas so we invas I dab in all all different shs like for all different SHs just to get a feel right and there's a very different approach in in it's all up there very very very hard to find a lip bug up there now right and and I and every single doing there's you know one shoulder screaming there's another one there's no screaming one's quiet all different kinds of different approaches and I found there was a one sh called the chernob one in the chernob and it was so quiet that you wouldn't believe you could hear a pin drop the whole d like quiet like you wouldn't believe and then you go to the breast of sh you know and it's you know it's rowdy and and everything and then there was another sh that I I couldn't believe it's called vishnit tunis vets I'm like what this vishn from tunis from Tunisia it's I don't where it was very cool. Okay, see everyone tomorrow. Bye-bye. Thank you. Bye. Bye. You're welcome. You're welcome. Take care.