Tanya Hashalem #2 -Rabbi Yosef Keller, Difference of Rebbes manuscripts, who do we follow- RC Dalfin

So I'm here with Rabbi Keller, the second part of an interview. This is the program meaningful interviews. We spoke about the sedic being kind of the final say of how and what should go into the Tanya in our last segment. Now, how does that coincide with the Reb Ashab in 19 in tread that's 1900 that the Reb did he make any changes? I know that he asked Nikol to to be Mia because there were mistakes right to usim. Um, I'm just curious, did Reb Ashab make any changes? I think I think he made a big change, one change, and um, he he I heard that he was concerned that his cousin Kister might be upset. Do you know what I'm talking about? Something rings in my head. >> Well, the the biggest change that he did at the Tanya was uh, inserting the hash. became dashmat is the whole piece about >> right that's what I'm >> a few pages >> yes >> I don't know you have to see where where where the sources when you're saying that he was concerned about the kapa but it makes sense the kapa was also involved he was also one of the kabad rebas so he also had some say and it doesn't say whether or not he consulted with him >> um well there is a letter there is a letter that when the a letter from the Rashab in his that they shouldn't put the temple on it in the beginning there is such a letter >> yeah that's something else >> because he didn't want the cup to >> yeah that's that's already something else that's something that Gman did on his own without consulting he he decided to write some song praising the reb in other words not directly but the acronym of of Russia of of of of the beginning of each line would read the shalom or something. >> Yes. And obviously that was meant to praise the but was very adamant that that >> that go out because he didn't want to cause any >> any rift >> right and he wanted everyone should receive but but so but but talk about so this Indian so I mean to say that did not put in this section about >> that's what you're telling me >> yeah that did not make major changes in the neither did the MLB actually uh was uh prepared for print and he didn't uh insert he didn't insert what >> this big piece about the symptoms that that was taken out apparently that felt that now was the time to do it there was a time when we were more concerned about the >> right >> we know was very instrumental with he traveled to V and to Minsk. And what's interesting about that travel is that he said over there he said he he ended up traveling over there during the summer the month of and yet so some he said were more or less at that time of the year but even he didn't say it in when is the para he said it sometime later and another that he said over there was now you would say it's but because it's a basic mimer explaining why you need in the generation is instrumental because it's such a basic minor explaining the need for seems that's why the the I believe the said it vila or he he actually stopped off at on the way to vna um >> so you're saying so your point is your point what was the point you were making >> the point I'm making is that the um was uh instrumental in in bringing shalom between the introducing the toas. >> Uhhuh. >> And so it took some time to seep in and apparently the made the decision but it's already they've already acknowledged that or they are about to acknowledge that. Uh >> okay. But but here's another question. If the alter wrote it, >> yes, >> how is it that uh even his own son the would take it out? >> Put it this way. If the if the alterba was continued living another 100 200 years and he decided in the year that now it's time to put in then question because >> no right I'm no I'm not asking about the putting it in that I understand I'm saying about taking it out what what right does the have to take it out? who took it out. It was the alterb who took it out. >> Oh, it was the alterb who took it out. >> Yeah, the alter took it out in the very first. >> Do we do we know do we know why he took it out? >> Well, it was very evident because at the time uh the mistaken obviously this was the most basic argument between >> this the philosophical issue. >> Yes. And because he uses very harsh language against them is is is a reason that he decided he'd rather take it out than then take than play around with. >> Right. You're talking about that's that's people or >> No, he's not talking about that. We're talking about it talks about >> Right. Right. right >> right. >> Right. So you what you're saying is that the alterba saw that it's causing great conflict. >> The alterb knew that it was going to cause conflict and that's why took it out. >> So why did he write it? >> No, he he wrote it uh he wrote it that the people should know the way it is. He didn't write it for them. He wrote it for us. >> Uhhuh. >> Released it for us. Now that you going into print, it's for the whole world. >> Right. Okay. So, so what what is so how is this new Tanya how is it being in enriched through these manuscripts that you worked on? I like what is it adding? If if you want to know what my uh >> involvement >> involvement in this work was because they wanted to know first of all the location of the manuscripts of if I can identify which manuscripts because they had by now they had eight or nine copies of manuscripts mostly now there's the wrote some of it we have in the we know which it But there's other things from that we only have and we have quite a few and the used certain certain individual ones. They wanted to know can we can I identify which ones that he used and I was able to identify certain ones that that that he used >> that the Reb used >> that the Reb used. Yeah. >> How did you do that? >> Well, because of the Reb describes the regard and >> on that base he showed me It's it's it's uh in in the concern Odyssey he gives descriptions of the the different manuscripts and and according to to the description and according to checking looking up the most of them are actually available online. >> Right. >> So uh I was able to look it up and and and determined. >> But tell tell me um what what do you see in in in the Reb's work on manuscripts? like to hear just a general hash in in your opinion. What do you see? You know, you see god loose, you see cocknos. Not bad. What do you see? >> Well, DBA was had many many facets to him. He was a he was a learner. He was he came up with original explanations, but he also knew how to work with manuscripts and and look up manuscripts. >> Explain talk about what does that mean? I >> I'll give you an example. Let's talk about the explanations that the alter gave on the Tanya. So where were they printed? When were they first printed? >> Probably look at the >> No, no, no. In the we have many many but there's there's one minor that begins and it's about something how and something is saying how in it's something is not explained and now I'll explain it >> and where is where is this printed >> that's printed in put it as a beer on the minor of sash it's a famous beer really thought the right >> yeah go ahead continue >> now but there are that said and as a matter of fact he even refers to page numbers this so you can see that these were said were written after the was already printed >> you already have page numbers and uh they Those memorial were first printed. The first few memorial such were printed in memorial and and those that was printed from not just but the by name. He went over a whole bunch of mostly from the and he even incorporated some of the which was also in the the copies of the of the and so he so we can tell obviously that those were sometime after. Uh I have proof that some of them were actually in the year and I have a show even when when it was said but what's interesting is that one of these mamim is so much different and we actually have a savad of the and I would share with you a little about that because it's very it's the oldest that we have from the and it contains some from including the of which he begins with the words famous >> right. So he starts with >> in his begins. >> Okay. and gives the same content and and right before that is the mimer of of the which preceded it which was there's a matter of fact on the caption it says in other words the was aware that he's not giving you verbatim the alterbas thing now could be that it's not just referring to that particular behind her. But to all the memor that he's writing down, especially those which he said because you have the which is more closer closer to the way said it although it's also not precisely the way said it but but his meant to focus just the interesting >> and what's interesting is that on that there's another two memorial in the same subject and those Burim seemed to be Burim on that line. >> H okay. It's a contin >> and and and and molar was those memorial both as a matter of fact some of the he has on that m some of the differences in the vishar seems that he used the of the to insert little bits and pieces not all of it some of it is according to there's >> right so why are you telling me about the oldest manuscript of the >> what I'm saying is because over there you have one of the on peraf and an explanation of peraf. >> When you say an explanation, you mean a beer. >> I mean I mean a beer. A beer on >> a beer on a or part of the about >> Yeah. >> And uh what's interesting is that that mime is quite different. It's not not just a few words but it's almost like it's a whole new mimer the way wrote it the way it's written in in the >> really. >> Yeah. >> So what does that mean? That means that's he he added his own explanations. >> He added his own explanations. Whatever it was the idea of what we call means how it it it resonates by by the by two two different people the and whatever each one is writing the the way it resonates with him >> that's what means >> I I never thought of that way >> well it seems >> you know by not that way >> so what's interesting is the actually addresses it addresses the issue that sometimes you have different from from the same but different and the Reb says could be that he said it differently because not only >> saying about his own you mean >> let's take even that he said right >> yeah who who's he who said and writes it down >> and the writes it down and they're slightly different now it's very possible that in between the writing Let's say during the Shabas they they they they woulder it with him or they would ask him questions on it and he would give them an explanation and could be that to the he gave one explanation and to he gave another explanation because he he was giving he wasn't just telling him share with him an idea an idea that can impact his hashem and he needs this and he needs this and he's >> therefore the way they wrote it up >> and in each one in his is incorporated also the additional pieces that did >> and you actually see that you've seen that >> I don't know I don't know I wasn't there so I can't tell you >> no no no but you you read the >> yeah you see you see quite many times that that it's almost like a different nuances different explanations which which is higher which is lower and you have different explanations and could be that obviously they're both correct if Mhm. And and you said earlier that the writes or something >> only on this on this. >> No, but you but you said you said it you extracted you said possibly. I don't know what's your source. said maybe it's about the reason I'm saying is because it just so happens to be that it's the earliest dated mimer in from all the the memorial in this in most of the in this no this is going to be called 1161 that's the number's library and the whole isat of the now the way the pages are numbered are not necessarily the way they were originally written. As a matter of fact before the I believe the one that's on is page and the previous pages from is these memorial that I described right >> and and in another and the way it's it's laying in the you can see that there was the ish You can see there is is is the is the middle mimer and on on both sides when you know you have your boy you have you fold it and you fold it this way and that way. So you can see that the the the the pages that's before and the pages after that's that's one minor that's one >> he >> and as a matter of fact you can tell that Mulliver copied from this Bhl after it was it was already numbered in different ways because one page he didn't seem to use and because because it was in this bul was separate. This was before this was after and he was using and he he seems that he didn't use that other page because you see everything in that page. >> Okay. So so so now >> um so when you come AC when you came across these different >> how do you how do you decide what to put into this Tanya? >> No I didn't make those decisions. >> I know they they but you happen to know. Do you happen to know? >> Yeah. So when when I noticed for instance that a particular mimer that in the G savad of because they didn't that deeply into the because it's printed already and as a matter of fact I believe could be that that minor because some of the memorial they printed from the different of >> right >> and could be that that one was actually printed uh and and I I just pointed out you seem to take out obviously they that's editorial decision for them to make. Rabbi Kaplan, Mendle Kaplan was instrumental. He was the chief overseer of this project as far as the at least the debut are concerned. >> Does he have an expertise in in this area? >> He is obviously he uh he learned and uh >> teaches. >> Okay, we'll stop here. Wait, we have another segment coming up.