Rabbi Shmuel Fox, former Rav of Beth Jacob in Dayton, Oh - History, Rabbis Kreisworth and Silver -#1

welcome to a program our program is called meaningful interviews I search for people who are meaningful and I interview them hence meaningful interviews okay so coming here to Boca I met you about a year ago and I saw your show last night and I thought it would be wonderful to interview Rabbi shmuel Fox was the love in a shoe what was the name of the show foreign Ohio for over 60 years so I want to I want to go back to kind of the beginning and even your childhood whatever you remember because people find this fascinating and continue good healthy life and it's not every day that we have the privilege of of interviewing someone who up in years I've been years but by young men talking about young man so tell me where you were born you're born in the Clinton in Poland called LoCash I spell it different spellings l-o-c-a-t-z-e yeah Poland where was that nears the Krakow or Lodge but which largest city that people know was the Krakow varsha or or or uh or lunch I I would say maybe not too far from fire [ __ ] okay okay yeah and you were born there what year 19 uh 20 22. 1924. it was born 1924. okay so um how long uh you you went to Haider there you went to a hater or Yeshiva no no I no it's probably home learning home learning your father was a hasid or or a lit [ __ ] foreign or not yeah what about them in Milwaukee Wisconsin yes we came here he was the rebbe he was the rebby in Milwaukee in Milwaukee now I'm asking I'm asking in Poland will your father and grandfather were there I know that I'm asking about his grandfather what do they come from Sydney do you have any idea this is the past possibly my my zayde I vaguely remember that Baruch is a big town it was part of the city and and he was part of what is the independent okay in the family of him yeah a number of shocked him in the family and when did you come over to America like do you remember what year something like that I think it I think the year was uh 19 29 29 29 no I got it right so you were five years old at the time right okay where did you all come to to to Ohio Milwaukee Wisconsin to Milwaukee Wisconsin I had an uncle there but he's got the right to bloom bloom loses there and when my father came he came as as the as the Rob in the shoeless medish I got all in the investment in Milwaukee Wisconsin it was not what you call a rabbi in today since he was a reverend they called him a reverend that those they know that's right right they called them a reference in those days I believe right uh believe me they could be today's rabbis anyway yeah yes yes so so um at what age did you uh you went to college you went to you went to there was no Yeshiva there right no so you went to public school right in public school and from there you went to University Yeshiva no no no no right right what what year probably in the 1935 to 40 right yes okay what was the story you wanted to tell me yeah the story is that how we get how we got to go to the Yeshiva yeah we got our education there was no Yeshiva at that time in Dayton right and they there was no Yeshiva there in Milwaukee right so uh and my my father said we're going to visit an uncle my mother had a stepbrother living in Chicago uh-huh so she's gonna he was going to take us to visit my uncle right in the grocery business okay right so uh he took us there and we visited him for a short time then he said we have another reason to make and the other visit was a surprise to us when I say we my brother and I my brother was two years younger right I was here at a time let's say 14 years old and my brother was 12 years old okay right and the man we arranged to visit was at the Chicago Cinema Torah right and it was the dean Rabbi Greenberg Rabbi Greenberg Yahoo okay he was he was well known you know in Chicago he was the dean okay the head man the one who hired others right yes yes yes so so at any rate he gave us an interview right your brother and you right and the interview right with them commission Rashi that was our interview for the shipment yes right and I remember it seems like we did quite well uh in the interview and I remember when I wanted to say well can we take a look in the Rashi he said no no it's not necessarily to look inside but I said I said to him you know when you look inside so he says I see it's like chemo so you should know about pets yeah yeah so anyhow we went there and I did not look inside and the question was on the side he said okay we qualified we knew Russia quite well at that at that age and that's how you got how you how you went into Yeshiva yeah so so that was a surprise a big surprise because we had no baggage right you know there's nothing to indicate that we're going to remain there overnight and then beside they didn't have any dormitories at that time this matter Torah so the railroad by Greenberg is said he'll arrange for everything the reality arranged whether we should stay and uh where we were bored at someone's house yes it's always house right right so that's it so he left my father left he said you'll have you'll have clothing will be coming come to you so you can imagine for my younger brother seemed to be a trauma right but to me it didn't seem to faze me too much no I took it was that in fact I calmed him so it was good that we went together so at any rate that that that was the start I'll start with your learning yeah with no well no but no right you came here like naked they're not getting without without the clothing without background yeah Rabbi there I think he had been there over here right right I think over 60 years wow yeah okay so so from there he was from Slovakia so from there you went on to uh whatever I studied their high school they had right Yeshiva high school and they had a high school I went on to to high school in Chicago and uh and college uh College then later I went I went to New York which which university you know the University [Music] from which university I got a law degree from there and then I also the studies at Columbia University did you all study with the Rob rather salavechik did I uh well I heard she urine from him you you know when while you were studying a university while I was studying in English sure where where in New York New York when you were studying University you used to go over to Yeshiva University right yes what'd you think of asiaum very long for one thing and then try to understand as much as I could right you had a good life he would like to speak oftentimes he would say I imagine it was giving him a lot of time so we say and the poor veterans everybody can hold a vlogger right right so they should not be included I'm allotted him should not be included in starting from the very beginning right right right um did you have a closer relationship with his brother Aaron being that you were closer in the midwest I didn't know about it and of course you know Tony now Yeshiva for a while and then he broke away and he started his own issue the brisky shiver yes he started there and in fact he tried to convince us to go to his Yeshiva but we were loyal to the Spanish the Taurus we remained there right right um a question I have is uh at what point did you decide you want to be a rub a rabbi well because you said you had you had a law degree were you practicing law at any time no no I didn't officially practice so why did you get a law degree because you thought you wanted to be a lawyer backup as a backup you'll have a partnersa through being a lawyer right that did seemed more promising right the financial standpoint okay so what made you decide to go into the rabbit my my my head with and thought I would be very suitable as a rabbi they talked me into it's going to rap on us right away they gave me Stellas as a talmate for Mrs atomied I had to because they gave me a Stella New York in Chicago one of the largest there they had about for The Young and the Rome above there uh abruptly let's say abruptly left left right A large community which which school do you remember because there was a big Rover frying official rubber frying official you know they're a shiver of cabinets oh the last Epstein Martha Epstein's brother if a fried Fishel was a rubber Chicago for 60 years you know him you know him yeah I know him yeah that was the called the Russian The Remains yeah am I right you're right you're right right so he and he was a literature [ __ ] I did my leadership yeah yes but he had a very good relationship with Joseph yitz up the sixth letter but he was close to him and he supported him he sent money to him yeah I remember he was very stately and very proper yeah he was uh I think is you know his brother was you were given as a stellar no no sure the North in North Chicago they had about I don't know I don't know maybe about 1500 people so you became the roof no no no no oh you were offered at the job but you didn't take it no no I was I was still a student and I was offered for The Young and the Roy uh oh to go there as a as a a rough a rabbi for the if the young rum yeah right and I I think one of the reasons that this is my own thinking that one of the reasons was and they had a lot of Lucy she's there at that shoe and they wanted to eat a should wash it too and I was able to accommodate them uh so you speak English fluently I I spoke it let the uh fairly well very well yeah right so where did you but where did you end up taking a Pulpit because which what was your first fellow the the one in in Dayton that's the only show you had and I know I had one A Little Rock characters so it was my first album Little Rock characters there were a lot of room hidden there well they they had a number I wouldn't say a little a lot of room eating and the little rocket I had a congregation there Mother's congregation what you what year are you talking about 120 people and I think it was about the 1950 yes 1950 about right right so so and uh how did I get there yeah because the similar thing happened where uh the dean of mayeshiva they had a call from a hotel in in Hot Springs saying they want somebody conduct a sailor there's a door let's say for pesach pesach yeah and the dean said and I'd like you to go there yeah so uh there and there I said uh yeah you know I said yeah I'll take it anyhow from there one of the Bible about him from Little Rock Little Rock is the capital of Arkansas right not far from Hot Springs hot springs right was there right and just at that time they were looking for foreign that's right in Little Rock and he recommended me to them on the basis of hearing me connect to sedorian and speaking then okay how many years were you there Little Rock I say maybe about three four years okay four years yes and then and then and then my wife's when did you marry what year did you marry married I'm saying you were married when you went to Little Rock were you married already no so when did you get married 54 55 all right mayor she comes back well that's good but but but um when you so go ahead so what happened when you yeah why'd you leave Little Rock and you went to Dayton what happened because her parents lived in Cincinnati OH he heard there was a stellar opening in Dayton who heard her father father what was her father's name enough he was a celebrity but he worked together with rebellious I got to know very well you did yes tell me tell me for a moment what were your impressions of Eliana but it was also he was a very big activist yeah a big activist he was the head of the of Jacob later on he became active in Saving Jews yes he's a very active they send them to Europe and if you want to hear him isil about him yeah going to Europe the story was he went to one of the uh convents you know they're sisters yeah run into Convent he says he wants to see uh the Jewish the children too because many parents would leave their children yes yes hoping to get back alive and brightens them out from the Quran yes so at any rate at any rate that the head sister says we don't have any we didn't have any Yeah by silver it was a very determined person you know very determined you would not take no for an answer he says I'm staying here but after a while he said to them can you bring can you bring in all the uh all the students that you have I want to see them and talk to them also they brought in dozens and dozens of students there they brought him in and uh when they brought in the students and they uh they uh we didn't recognize any of them as Jewish couldn't talk their language they spoke different languages so anyhow brainstorm and what was the brainstorm he shouted out loud holy Shima Israel you know Hashem and they all answered my God they answered in Hebrew it was a clear side to the sisters there that they were Jewish where did they learn the shivaya sure and they learned right from childhood area from their mother's lips right you know seeing them Jewish lullabies you know so so he got out dozens and dozens of children came came back with him he raped in Redmond he was very uh good friends with with the senator uh from Cincinnati he ran for president also he was hoping he was so right to be president to be president he was very close to him he was very close to him so politically was connected he was politically well connected right so anyway he was able to build the maker and they're in a certain area where he wanted it were Jews opposed it it had protested the building he got it through yeah I got it so he got through some people from Europe refugees he was able to get through you know although they wouldn't qualify and according to the immigration laws and he he got him to be doing right tremendous amount of good work yeah it was a real leader yes yes yes one of our top leaders in Australian managers there was a famous story they tell about about him and wanting to meet with the president well they went down 1943. right the president March March on Washington right March and Washington right at any rate he arranged them for the vice president to meet with him right later on they found out that the president had an uh vacant calendar he could have easily have met yeah he did he was right not a great old heavy Israel that's right as it was reputed to be you know Washington yeah yeah yeah he's not what was the president of that time Hoover no no Truman no no no no no no no no it was 45. with Wallace Roosevelt Roosevelt Roosevelt yeah Roosevelt right Roosevelt right right right yes so what what were we saying so that there are many silver great leader yeah he I think he he led the he was the leader of the whole all that abundant that came it was Chief Rabbi in Cincinnati you know and I got to meet with him you know right now did you know Rabbi scharfstein there was a laborator of there do you know him yes he had a scientist he had a connection a little bit a little bit yeah yeah and there was also for a while he came after the war thing Rabbi Joseph Goldstein do you have any recollection don't remember I believe replacer silver got him the visa to come out and that's why he ended up in Cincinnati later he moved to New York I think yeah I probably knew him there was another person who I want to ask you about he was the son of a big habakkah his name was Mikhail Michael wolensky valensky he was he was an huc uh a professor and a maven of like manuscripts I think that I guess he called they call and they brought him from Germany because he went to Germany after Russia and they brought him over they paid for him and I have actually the documents in German yeah where they they write that we're going to pay we want you to come and he came to Cincinnati but you don't remember his uh no no but there was it wasn't about Rabbi in in the sharks of the day school Under Rabbi silver yeah yeah is that the one you're talking to YouTube no I was talking about uh Professor Michael wolanski valensky Nicole valensky at huc I guess you never heard of him what year uh Robinson what year did you marry your husband 1852 1952 you got married okay we refreshed ourselves on that so so so uh how long were you in Cincinnati in other words between little between little no I know you were born and raised between little little uh Little Rock Arkansas where you were Rabbi right yeah first Stella yes well the second step hot springs in this Little Rock by the way that was that was Clinton Terry yeah later later right later Clinton right the governor right right and then the president anyway yeah lady president of Arkansas I know that I know he was the governor I know that yeah but so but did you you went right away from Little our little little rocky went to the the Stella in in uh in Dayton yes now there's a story there too okay the story is the chat room was my my father-in-law right he founded the job he heard about a shoe that needs her children open he went there personally recommended he says I just want you to try them out yeah invite him for a shop and send it so happened they did they listened to him they invited me for a Shabbos but but later on he regretted the fact that he rushed for them to hire me right away because uh they found out they were eight candidates for the position and and each candidate was about a space of three months what do you mean space for three months before they heard one candidate okay yeah okay so they delayed answering me what the verdict was whether right whether you'll be hired for the job I knew nothing about it for about a half a year right so then half a year I get a surprise a telephone call saying Rabbi Fox you're the unanimous election that was after nearly six months not hearing from them at all okay so that's why your father-in-law regreted it yeah they regretted it because he thought he'll give you right away an answer Nancy he says the first candidate will be forgotten right oh you were the first candidate I was the first candidate so we had a number of others coming forward right I made a mistake I should have had you being you know right right fourth fifth sixth the last I understand I understand that's how we thought uh that date was out right so he was so surprised when they told him I got the position and uh and they now the the pay at the time for a rabbi yeah was it comparable to the pay of a lawyer no it was probably half or less right right you are yeah I took it because of because I really was an idealist I didn't care much about the money didn't ask them for raises anything they like that part yeah well you know what happened who's doing it for the cause yeah I liked it I liked robotics from the early years you asked before you went through your Twitter about us yeah I liked it as a student I told you I spoke in different congregations in Milwaukee right and at some of them were large like this shooting in in Chicago was you know 1500 people even though I am right right right right right how many people did so this shoe in Dayton was it a small medium no no it was a pretty light show at the time I thought the whole time uh uh yeah yes you know some questions and the the uh the some shoes that were not five feet like a moisture paskins but they were still Orthodox is that right yes right now who who was the one who you know which Orthodox rabbis gave that is that the RCA uh oh yeah I was with the Irish oh we are the RCA did not require Makita five feet is that correct as far as I know as far as you know right and uh with a congregants that wanted higher or not really there was never an issue with Congress came to you said Rabbi we want the pizza higher no quite the contrary there's those later that fought against them if it's all together yes they want it removed and how did you deal with it well in another area in another area that where the people can sit in the back you mean the mix the people the mixed what you mean the people in the background no we still had separate men and men women but I learned the pizza but but it's in a different area I think out of uh flowers or something else right right what what about what about uh the use of a microphone a Shabbos microphone well in the use of the Shabbos microphone I I had uh no microphone so my voice carried my son who followed me had had that show yes oh really yes he's the rub there today no but he was for 18 years the one that I met no he's a doctor right he's a doctor he's a well-known doctor right what type of doctor is he they're metallic mentality in New York New York right but you have another son who was in the Revenant right what was his name what's his name he little fox hello Fox so he so when he took over yeah yeah but so when he took over he had trying to think the organization oh I know you're talking about America's thrall uh I know what you're talking about yeah for Shoppers yes right I know what you're talking about right I want to go back to uh 1929 1930 or a little boy but you came that year your wife says You Came do you recall the uh it was The Majestic Majestic yeah but I want to know if you remember the reviews coming to to um I think he was in Milwaukee too in 1930 he visited there was a Chabad table in Milwaukee right no no there is in Milwaukee too and in Dayton uh that's where I was robbed and the Ralph uh and we were you're talking about Robert Chantels later later no or or later they were still probably later yeah and anyhow uh but you don't remember you don't remember as a five six year old boy your father uh and and people were talking about uh Joseph schneerson the sixth Le Baba cherubba who came to visit Chicago Detroit St Louis Milwaukee in 1930. you have no you you have no recollection of that no right I wrote a book about that I wrote a book about it's called Chabad and Orthodoxy 1900 to 1950. and but I do understand the raw of the head Rob in Chabad in Cincinnati said send love to establish himself in Dayton yeah you're talking about uh Rabbi kalmanson yes right that's much later it's in the 70s okay so he said someone then to come today tell them go see Rabbi Fox he'll help you yeah you were friendly with the Babbage right you were yeah yeah sure uh right and how he came to me and I remember we we encouraged him that we helped him with the safer Torah that he needed to get started and so on was that was that shemtov no mangel yeah that's his son-in-law that's his I think that's the southern law of Robert Collins yeah yeah I know I I know the family right that's the one and yeah you're right so let's go back now so you become rough in the early 1950s uh how long after your marriage when you become Reverend dating marriage well when I left and when I left the little a little round after about four years in Little Rock right like six months six months later you were became rough right right right and that no no no I was wrong I was wrong already in uh in Little Rock no I know that but but then you said you went for the Stella it took six months till they called you to give you the job and you were and and your father-in-law said you were married already your wife said in 52 you're married right so uh 44 yeah so it was around that time yes well it wasn't before you were married it's your father-in-law got you who told you about the position so you were there from like uh 52 or 50 right from that year on till till you retired right so now uh looking back looking back looking back what would you say was your biggest accomplishment that you in in your life well I would say for one thing that I sent a number of students to yeshivas both boys and girls I sent them to Yeshiva and they were marked for that for instance they're what Makia they recognize to you for doing that they recognize that you did that for them yeah one is the head of yeshivin in Israel oh really yeah so anyhow yeah had issue in Israel and my grandson he gives the urim and Mary Yeshiva wow wow what's his name my grandma Fox yeah he's a market share and mirror in yes beautiful Chevy has been doing that now for a few years and also other issues his right wing karate right more he out didn't say that yes I did and more and more he's a big time and uh and more yes she was one and maybe I think he's giving sure to three yeshivas so he lives there to throw yeah yeah right now uh and then the Russian Shiva there uh no that's not now where a finger one was the head of the he still is this goes Sun after sun was named after another one of my Barbarian cries worth oh you had brother cries that's right in Chicago because right there another one went to a university it took him away from Chicago yes exactly he was a favorite of mine yeah I had a close relationship with him you know he called me and write to me so I don't know if she liked it so so the so you're saying that the the first accomplishment that the most is that you was therefore you married at the same boys and girls students to yeshivas right from from Dayton Ohio which didn't have a Yeshiva that's correct that's true Craig we started one here and and I remember one of the leaders of the uh Yeshiva movement in New York uh trying to think his name uh leader came to Dayton and the gifter no the gift it was in Cleveland Cleveland right uh anyhow uh he uh at any rate his organization came up with some seed money to help us get started get started with what Montana yes this was on the eurospices right right like a day school yes the learning was what the learning was a day school level or was a Yeshiva learning well it probably was they scored first first and for that and it devolved into a high school was it also on the Toro masara exactly exactly under the Under head I told him so right uh me or who was who was the head of the Day School movement what a struggle fiber men to love it Robert Levy yeah okay whoever yeah all right that's right that's coming yes I I know yes yes houses on and we like now getting started with Yeshiva wasn't easy because you would think the shoe would want it five kids including our son right oh hello the one that you made oh the doctor that's actually right what's his first name Joshua Joshua Yeshua Fox yes he's a well-known doctor you'll find it okay yeah so I can use them for my Dermatology issues yeah anyway okay at any rate so you had five kids and and it wasn't easy because what there was opposition right right of why are you sending why doing this not going why are the kids going to public school right right exactly and and the community that's the Jewish Community leaders opposed it they didn't want a nice shoe first of all they felt to take away funds from them right I realized it really with cost there's a costume well we'll see the cost yeah even though we're not charging them anything the children the organization or the organization the organization to help you to help right so there's no charge you know we didn't charge I try to avoid the unit costs yeah for Jewish Education as much as possible that's wonderful yeah Special yeah I wish you could be this way today yeah a little bit a little bit a Bissell it is outrageous the tuition amounts that the yeshiva's day schools 20 000. you gotta you got to make 400 000 a year somebody has 150 000 for tuition we already get that kind of money so anyway it should be you know subsidized yeah yeah so I always try to subsidize him so and so at any rate they they held that the community leaders you know didn't want the issue they held it against me and those also uh even members of my own synagogue uh didn't want to DARE they said children break things blah blah blah blah yeah yeah you know so they didn't want it children are children right they didn't want to they didn't want it wasn't the show premises the show and I did not surely right that's where it started but later on you know I I also involved the uh balabatin Federation I involved the other congregations as well conservative and reform to send their children here so this became a community school okay it's community school and there they had to do things they wouldn't otherwise wear capos yeah yeah they're right so so we compromised it that at that time that Sunday they could go to their school and you teach them what you want Oh you mean today like Sunday school the reform a conservative summer yeah exactly right right right right right so you could do whatever you put on but Monday through Friday this goes around by Taurus right under their leadership snare Cutler ever come out the rabbit Cutlass Son of Iron Cutter's son of Schneider did he ever come out because he was I think the head of all very also involved in terms of sorrow but no I don't remember you remember that no but I remember the leader of kamenotsky he came out he came out right do you remember ever hearing grab Aaron Cutler speak did you ever meet him spoken like that where where basically cargo one time yeah you met Roberto yeah yeah she finds then yeah I remember I was invited to his grandson's dress or the kendler uh remember tender was a son-in-law right right it's actually Rabbi tender that invited me yeah I understand yeah father yes that's right and that was the father right um what what about um we spoke about silver we spoke about that Mike Sheriff spoke about Rabbi gifter you you knew I'm a gifter from Cleveland yeah well I I knew of him but he never came to to right because he's in Ohio as well right he's in Cleveland how far is Cleveland from Dayton Cleveland from day to Native about 300 miles 300 miles and um uh [Music] if you mentioned Feinstein you know yeah my children went to Cincinnati so uh we mentioned about Rabbi there well that comes my children right because in the day school how far Cincinnati from Dayton OH it's about 15 years 55 Bible so this they went well I thought I thought you said they your son Joshua was was the first a student in the day school but me before after he went to the school in in Cincinnati and since that school started by whoever silver right right right and he had Robert shafts in be his principal all right and and he had a Yeshiva there it's higher and and my father-in-law it's one of the founders made in Cincinnati Cincinnati uh-huh uh-huh uh any other rabbonim or Dylan or rabbis which rabbit came which rabbits anyone came to care they didn't know no Hasidic redness came yes yes from Milwaukee uh try escape from aha came to Dayton uh something like that he would give out try him the food that's got Shrine yeah no so it gave 10 cents or something to to everybody but he got much more in return yeah yeah okay we're gonna take a break for a moment now we've had a wonderful uh first part of our interview with Rabbi uh Fox of shmuel fox who was a love in Dayton Ohio for over 60 years and Hashem the cup Arabic starch the memory arbit the male orbit and it's givaldi we'll see you soon thank you