Rabbi Dovid Eliezrie #1- Family, Schooling, Kfar Chabad, Shlichus, Jewish Organizations- RCD

Welcome to the program meaningful interviews. I'm here with Rabbi David Elri the head of Kabad in uh in Orange County somewhere I think Yor Belinda. >> Yeah, Yorbalinda California. >> Yor Linda California. But uh more importantly for this interview David just published this book unaded about the life of the freed and his tremendous work in Russia saving Yiddishai Judaism continuing in America and we'll hear about that later. In addition to that, Abdavid is someone who has walked the halls of uh very important people globally from Isis Israel to Russia to the United in the United States with the statesmen, politicians and really a a globe trotder. I really mean this. Do it who's uh on behalf of Yiddish Kite to to to to make a difference at Jewish agencies part of the board as far as I remember and uh things that most Kabad rabbisim don't do and David has managed to do do them and I think that speaks very much um about his um talents and dedication to the to the Jewish people. Um where he's not just limiting himself to his work in Eurabinda, which is his bread and butter of course, but really uh a a a shak to to so many other global Jewish uh issues that are so important, especially today with anti-semitism on the rise, which I believe I think I read that you were also. >> I wish my mother was alive to hear everything you said. >> Yeah. Right. YEAH. BUT BUT BUT DOVE, it's it's true. I'm not uh you know, if it's not true, I wouldn't say it. So I want to begin Dovet with a background of your family, your yes your yes your yes your yes your yes your yes your yes your yes your yes your yes your yeshiva training the people you met during those years and and then your your your your marriage who your wife is just give us you know who is this David >> who is David Alzri he's this [laughter] that's an interesting question that's the ultimate question we have to ask who is ourselves >> right >> the challenge of life is to realize realize who you really are and what you really can do and what you're where go what what what the go everybody has unique gifts and how can you use them in a positive kind of WAY >> ESPECIALLY ESPECIALLY TODAY it's said right he was asked >> where are we and we have to know where we are we have to know where we are and what we can accomplish >> okay so take the short answer is the short answer is I grew up in Los Angeles where I attended a modern orthodox day school hill Hebrew academy where they taught me which was they said you I was a little bit as a kid it was it was in the 50s and the 60s in a time when you know this was the this was the style of education and I didn't ex I didn't excel in the ibrit but when I was about 14 years old my family moved to Montreal and the yeshiva down the block was a labisha literally about 150 yards from the house and that time the you know kids from all kinds of backgrounds would attend the yeshiva not just kabad kids and I went to lababa shiva and I became very close with the students. There was a there was not only a elementary school and a high school but there was a yeshiva gdola. There was a higher level rabbitical school and I became very close with the yeshiva students. I used to learn with them and study with them and they so to speak moved me in and they brought me to the Reba and uh and then in 1968 my family moved to Israel and I went to Farabad to Kabad yeshiva where I spent five and a half years and then afterwards I came back to America and I got married and I spent eight years on in Florida at the University of Miami. I was one of the early campus my whole generation except for one in Goldstein in Michigan. the rest of us, we all went into campus work and then we moved into community work. We had no support system. We, you know, we it was the it was the, you know, when when when we turned up on campus, they looked at us like we dropped out of a UFO or they thought we're going to sing Fiddle on the Roof or something like that, >> right? >> And and then eventually I went back to California. My wife is from California and went to Orange County and we've developed a beautiful campus and center in Orange County. So that's uh that's basically and we had the first great grandchild about a month and a half, two months ago. >> Month a month. >> So we've hit the big time now. We've hit the big time. >> I've already informed the great grandchild. I'm waiting. I'm planning on dancing at >> a mine. A maine. So I want to ask you a few questions of what you said. One is um your parents and grandparents they came from where in Europe? I assume >> they came from England and then before that from Europe. You know, they were part of that, you know, Jews from Eastern Europe immigrated to England and they came from there here to America >> and and were they come from >> No, they were just traditional just traditional Jews. But when you realize how many kids went to an Orthodox day school in the in the late 50s and early 60s in Los Angeles, you could count those kids on a few dozen. It was very very rare in those days for kids to go to yeshiva like I did. >> Which you went where to which which school which modern Orthodox school in in >> it's still a wonderful school. It's called Hill Hebrew Academy. It's in LA in Beverly Hills. It's a wonderful >> Rabbi. Was Rabbi there? >> There was I think that there the the head of the school was Rabbi Goddisman >> and um it was a wonderful school and I got I was very much enriched by that educational experience. But um but then I moved in when I was about 14 years old. I went to Labameish Shiva and um about between 14 I was not 14 or 15, I'm not sure exactly. I came to the Reb the first time I met with the Rebba and um I got a little special attention from the Reb also and that so to speak put it be put me in a different direction in life and I you know and I became eventually a fullf right let me let me ask you this uh how many s you have any siblings >> I have one sister and um and I have six children that are brash all married and a couple married grandchildren one of them has already gone onlick. The other one is about to go on. And uh we already have a third generation entering the same uh business. I don't think it's a business. I think it's a mission. >> Yeah. Calling in life business. [laughter] >> What? >> It's not a business. It's a holy thing. >> It's a holy thing. It's a calling in life. [clears throat] And we are very, as I tell my wife always, we are extremely uniquely blessed by our children and our grandchildren. And now the first great grandchild. >> Okay. So you you've seen um you were in Kabad. You would you learned by >> I I studied in Kabad and I really studied in a very unique period for because those who know the history of Kabad knows that Kabad was molded and the students in the Babachas were molded by great mashiam. Mashim are people who are spiritual mentors and their responsibility, you know, in a classical yeshiva, you have a rashisha, a great Torah scholar and his and he has the intellectual acumen and knowledge and and and and great mastery of of tamudic scholarship and learning. But inadhiba there is also a mashia and a mashia's job or responsibility. I don't know if it's a job is to is to be a role model of of values and ideals of spirituality of of holiness and at the same time mold those students. So I lived in two generations of Mashiam which were radically different. And in my first book, the secret of Kabad, I have a chapter there called the yeshiva. And I contrasted two Mashiam which was Kessleman who was a Mashia for over 50 years. And I was there in the last few years of his life. And I was actually at his funeral. And then after he passed away, the Reb did I think what we call up in baseball a change up. He sent Raendelas. Now's focus was on davening and learning and he was a man that would davin every day till 11:30 12:00. He was immersed inic philosophy. He would keep students up all through the night with his masterful frabrangans full of insight and wisdom and and and and deep spiritual content. And um then the Rebent after he passed away and he had been a Mashia he had had this role in Kabad yeshivas for 50 years generations of ofidim were educated underneath and his focus has always been primarily on the which means service through prayer and the spiritual core of who you are as a person because inad the focus is really you know it's an interesting thing in Kabad we don't tell somebody you're a great Torah scholar you we say to him you're a pimi you're a person who's internalized values and what did was focus on this internalization comes futas now first thing you have to understand the difference had spent you know was an academic he had been I think arrested once in Russia for a short period of time but he you know he was a he was a man immersed in scholarship and from the time he got out of Russia from the mid you know like he had till I ca I was in yeshiva till until the early 70s when he passed away he was spent and even before that he was a mashia in the yeshiva in Russia so in the secret underground yeshiva so his whole world was Jewish learning and scholarship as the expression in in Hebrew is oh shora in the tent of Torah then comes Rab mendal futas now who was ramen menal he he was a communal activist he had been instrumental in organizing you know the work of Kabad in Russia. He had been one of the key figures in the what we call in I call in both of my books the g great escape where a group of a thousandidim escaped Russia on false passports between 1946 and 1947 when you think there was never such a thing in the history of the Soviet Union a thousand people got out of the got out of that so-called prison without them you know and at the end he was arrested for that and sent off to Siberia for nine years so you walked into yeshiva every single day and you looked at a man who had spend spent almost a decade of his life in one of the harshest prison environments in the world. We're not talking about going to an American prison. I've been to American prisons visiting prisoners. We're talking about Siberia that if you finally escape, what are you going to do? A march across the tundra. I mean, this is the end of the world. And we would look and this was a man who exemplified to us self-sacrifice, standing up for principles, ideas. And really he was while focused on aveda the internal spiritual service ramen focused on mukush being makush and connected in a stronger way to the rebba. It was a different message and he wanted us I remember there was a famous first Fbrangan when he comes to there comes there and he would say okay guys what are you doing here you got to go to New York I mean like he he came like a like a tsunami in and shifted the direction of the yeshiva and I think the rebba made a calculated choice because the rebba I think was intent his primary goal was to transform Judaism in the world and he needed foot soldiers and the students from the yeshiva could be the foot soldiers so had instilled to us the internal values and mendal challenged us to be the foot soldiers >> and when we looked at him and I always think through my life you know I'm you know when you go in there's always difficulties and hardships you have to raise money you have to do this but I always think to myself whatever difficulties I face they pale in comparison to somebody like Raendel who because of what he did secretly in Russia he was sent off to Siberia >> so would you say that looking back now the person that touched you most or formed your ideas was Rabanduas. I think >> the rebel I'm not talking about the rebel the >> no as a must I think the one that instilled in me the sense of idealism I think I I think both of them I think both of them played a very important role in my personal development because from I learned the idea that you have to be the the concept of being aimi a person who's internalized values means you have to be a true person in other words a lot of us put on a good show we can put on a nice suit, we can put on good clothes, we can play the we can play the part, we can do the act, >> right? >> So demanded from us a a real sense of working within ourselves to realize what our true inner qualities is. And Ramen said, "Okay guys, now you got to go do something." So I think I was very fortunate to really experience these two very different teachers. And in my first book, The Secret of Kabad, my I argue that they also represent the transformation of the Kabad community from one that is focused internally on spiritual accomplishment, not spiritual accomplishment, but spir working with yourself on a spiritual level. Not that you're becoming a great person, and the second one that said, okay, we have to change the Jewish world. In truth, the Reb wanted to do both, but there's a, you know, human beings are limited with their capacity, and I think there's a degree of trade-off. Let's be very realistic. But I think I was a very fortunate person. I think Rabendel had a greater influence over me than Rahim. There's no question about it. And my sh always knows I tell them stories of Rebendle. They're used to that. >> But um but I think I was a very fortunate person to have multiple role models in that direction. >> Now going back to your days in Montreal, you said you went into the lab in Montreal at what age? 14, right? >> I went into the Babach at 14. Yeah. >> And you were there till what? 17 18. >> 16. Two years. Oh, two years. So, who who touched you there? I think it was a combination from modern Orthodox to the Baptist. >> I think the one who took the greatest personal interest in me was the principal Rabbi Faggust and him I owe the greatest personal debt. He took me to New York the first time and I was also very close with many of the yeshiva students. So, hanging around those young vibrant dynamic rabbit I used to study with one of the listen I my level of learning was lower than the kids in laba. So I had some of the bakham would tutor me to uplift my level. So I would go every day to every once a couple times a week I'd go over to the to the yeshiva and sit with the the bakim. So I was very impressed by their energy by their passion by their sense of of mission and their scholarship. And so a whole different each one of them touched me in different ways. And I was I think I was close with label Kaplan who when he was sent off to Australia in 1966 he was my pen pal which was interesting till itself. But there was a whole group of yeshiva students and that environment of young passionate people who care about Yiddishkite who were involved with Jewish scholarship and learning and Montreal was also filled with a tapestry of very richidic personalities. Rabbi Galitzky and Rabbi Kramer and Rabbi Greenlass. Not that I really understood Peritt Mutkin. Not that I really understood them at that point in my life, but they were just very important. And then on the side, we the yeshiva boys, us high school kids in the yeshiva fielded the best hockey team in the Jewish league in town and we won the championship [laughter] and played a game in the Montreal Forum. >> So, >> not that I was the best player. I was not the best player. There was guys better than me. >> So, so the transition from modern modern orthodoxy, the way you were raised, you know, in hil and all that to Kabad, was it difficult for you or not? >> It wasn't difficult. It was an evolutionary process and it really got clenched when I got to Israel. I thought the yeshiva had a high school also and I got a surprise that it didn't. So, it was the middle of the year and it was suggested to me by one of the people in the administrative office, yes, why don't you just try it out for a few months? And I tried it out. And once I did that, I must admit that I, this is what I tell people all the time. I never finished high school, but I got a much better education in Kabad Yeshiva than anybody who went to Harvard. >> So, how was it being after the six- day war? >> It was exciting. It was dynamic. It was There's expression in Hebrew called algoa. You felt there was an energy in this country. We won the war. Everybody was very optimistic. It was a very dynamic and vibrant time. I mean economically and socially. I mean it was a time when if you wanted to make a phone call you had to buy a telephone token and which was good for 20 seconds and you put in the tokens. You'd call the person up hello and by the time you begin the conversation you lo all the tokens were gone. It was technologically let's say handicapped as a country >> right? But there was a a sense of of of excitement there and I left just before the Imiper war. So I was not there for the Mipper war. So I was there between the wars and um and there it was just a very exciting and optimistic time to be in Israel. >> What about the Bal? Did you see the Baltoua movement started? >> Yeah. So one of the things that I was involved with that point is around 1970. I was just a kid in yeshiva 71. And I don't remember the exact year. I was one of the people who helped out starting the Kabad House in the old city of Jerusalem in the famous Semic which is the Kabad Shaw. And the truth of the matter is that it was my dream to return to Israel after I got married and run that Kabad house. But after the after the Kipper war, the powers to be came to see me from Jerusalem and they said, "Listen, we love you, but there's no money. The econ the country was an economic basket case." So I always tell my kids, you could have been Israelis. >> So what year did you marry? >> I married in just just a few weeks before the Mipper war. >> It's 1973. Right. >> Right. Right. >> 1973. Now did you attend the Kyle in Crime? >> I spent a year in Kyle. Yes. I thought this very important. And then we went off to University of Miami where I became one of the early campus. >> Right. One second. I want to go back. You said earlier that you had uh some interesting um kov with the Reb. You want to share can you share that? >> Well, I'll tell you the first encounter with the Reb was very profound and I'll tell you what happened and I've told the story before but it's it's it's a very touching story. I came as a kid. I was like 14 years old. Okay, 15 maybe. And we came to and the the tradition was and on which is the anniversary of the passing of the previous reb. The high school kids from Montreal would come because the previous rabbi had established the yeshiva and they would have what's called the koli. They would have a meeting they would have a private audience for the 10 15 kids that came from the high school. They'd have a private audience with the rabbi. So we did all that. So we were there for the weekend and I went to the fabbran and I didn't really understand what was going on. And I left in the middle to be very honest. And but I felt some kind a special spirit in the place. >> Yes. >> And the last day we were there, I think it was a Sunday or a Monday. A Sunday night or Monday night. I'm not I don't recall exactly the day. I came I decided that I went we were going to leave in the morning >> and and what and we were going to we were going to drive back to Montreal on this on this bus. Now, of course, Yeshiva Boys when they charter a bus, they chartered the most rickety school bus that you can get in the existence of the universe. It wasn't like a fancy coach bush or anything like that. But I decided I want to come to my for the evening service and see the Reb one more time. So I come to 770 and then the Kabad this time is embriotic. It's small. They had just expanded the shaw partially. And I came up I came into 770 on the main floor and and you've been there and many people who watching this have been there. There's a shaw a small shaw off to the right. It's it's it's not a very large shaw. It's actually I measured it because my research for the book is 620 ft. Anyway, I come in there, that's where the Reb accepted the leadership of Kabad. So, I come I try to get in the room and it's packed and I go around the back and it's packed. So, I figured, you know what? I'll stand by the elevator between the Reb's office and between the shul and I'll see the Reb when he crosses the hall. Anyway, that's what I did. And the Reb walks out of his g what call. He walks out of his study. He's walking across the hall and standing like a century at the door of the shul is Rabbi Khadikov the Reb secretary and the protocol which I didn't understand at the time is that the Reb was the last person to walk in the sh Rabbi would close the door they would d Marv or e whatever the service was and then the reb would walk out. So I see the reb going across the hall I see the door open. I'm a little bit of an aggressive individual and I don't look like the regular lab kid at this time. The hat is not black. You know what I mean? >> Right. >> The hair is not short. Yeah. You know, I didn't I didn't dress exactly like more like a modern Orthodox kid, >> right? >> And I decide, why not? I'll follow the Reb in. >> So, I begin to follow in and the people there are giving me signs like this, get out. [laughter] So, the CV is closing the door and I'm like a deer caught in the lights, you know, on the highway in the middle of the night. And I'm confused and there's a tumult and the Reb turns around and he sees me. The kid that doesn't fit in, that's not the Kabad mold. They say, you know, he's not doesn't fit. He's not part of the program. And he's halfway in and halfway out. And he looks at me and he says, he makes a sign with his hand, open the door. And he makes a sign with me, come on down. I should stand next to him. And so that matter if he didn't say a word to me but as I was told by 770 watchers you know those guys that have been there forever it never happened ever again in the next 40 years >> would have some teenage kids stand next to him in the middle of D Marv. So I felt like he was saying okay you are different that's why I want you to stand next to me. [laughter] And when when's the next time you had a within? >> So I had that happened a few times. These kind of generalis before I went to Israel I I went to the Reb was on autism. As a matter of fact, I went back to New York on my own and the Reb told me that I should go learn. And so when I got to Israel, I told the Reb, I'm going to Israel and I'm thinking of going to Farabad. And the Reb said to me, I should go to Farabad. And I went. >> And I spent five and a half years of my life there. It was a long time and at one point I wanted to leave in the middle >> and the Reb was was very emphatic that I should stay and I realized what it was. I was looking for a little you know a change of pace and the Reb was saying listen you still have work to do on yourself. You have to focus on your own spiritual development. Stop running. >> Were you there when Rab Gasnne was there? >> Yes. And that's what happened is that I went into his CL I came in I didn't speak Hebrew and my level of learning was not necessarily up to the full. So I went into Gaffy's program for two three months. By then I began to pick up a little bit the Hebrew and the Yidd I knew a little Yiddish already. Then I mainstream into the regular yeshiva program. >> Uhhuh. >> In fact I'll never forget you know during that period of time when I first came that's when also Jonathan Saxs came from Oxford. >> Oh yeah. And I remember that one fabbran late at night that Gaffne stayed up to three four o'clock in the morning trying to convince Saxs not to go back to Oxford. Years later I had I was talking to Sax and with together with his wife and I said you're very lucky you left for Kabad. He says why is that? I said you'd be running a kabad house in South London today. And he [laughter] roared with laughter. Him and his [clears throat] wife started laughing like you wouldn't believe. So um you know it was it was an exciting time to be there. things were new and they were different. So let let me ask you let me ask you this comes toad my understanding is that the then were what we call dashishi not in other words they were they were really old old-fashioned in their mindset and did you feel at all that they didn't relate to the rebba's your food >> I I I want to say you know the rebba was a radical ch a ch you know he had made radical changes I happen to think it's deeper I happen to feel that first I don't understand I was a young kid so I don't know what all the politics were going on the background but I happen to believe that when the rebba sent the what's called the kesh series of emissaries couples and and what's his name and and younger later >> that was that was later >> yeah but that was about five six years later >> yeah it was four or five years later and I felt that That was Mc Rendel shook up the yeshiva and I felt that the Reb sending 20 couples or 25 couples and other 10 15 yeshiva >> shake up the whole community >> was to shake up the whole country because I don't think the Israelis I think their horizons were limited I don't think they had this radical vision that we can be transformational in a whole society and um and I think the Americans who came with the panache that's number one number two sense of exuberance and most important they had spent a lot of years by the Reb. They were really top tier students and I think the Reb sent them there to Israel to really shake up the system. So Raendel was the beginning of the shakeup and the students that came later on like four or five years later they were stage two of the shakeup. >> Uhhuh. Okay. Let's move on now to um anything interesting about your marriage that you want to share? >> No. Barak Hashem 50 years. I'm married over 50 years. Uh I I I'm on a book tour right now. I'm supposed to go to Grand Cayman on Wednesday night. My wife said, "Could you be receiving some jewelry back?" I don't think I'm going to do that. But no, we have Baram, beautiful family, six married children, 22 grandchildren. We are very, very fortunate. >> How do how did you meet her? >> I was introduced a people in your shim who knew both of us introduced us. We met in Israel. >> Was she involved at the time in Kabad or not? >> He had become religious through the Kabad house in LA. >> Which one? Rabbi Kunan's. >> Rabbi Kunan. Yes. She was the first person who became from to Kabad in LA and became a in California. >> Oh, and I remember her name. Estelle, right? >> Stella. Stella. >> Estella. Right. Well, that's wonderful. Okay. So, now you go out after a year in Ko to Miami on campus. Could you tell I I understand that uh those days were very difficult. When I arrived at the University of Miami, you know, it was like first thing that had was a Hill director at the time who was a radical leftist reform rabbi and he went to the university and said, "I'm a member of a cult." Well, we had a little bit of problems and um I was trying to get established and make a kabad house there and everything like this and they tried to thwart me and stop me in every way, shape or form. And um I also wanted to become a Jewish chaplain on campus. I was the first one that succeeded in the United States. And the way it happened is I finally threatened the university with a federal civil rights lawsuit that discriminate against me. They the liberal Jewish establishment was not willing to come to terms that we had alternative ideas and a different way of doing business. And the truth is that we were still, you know, beginning on campus. I went a lot of my classmates, Rabbi Loshack, Rabbi Felig, uh, Rabbi Darren, you know, Rabbi Aron Goldstein, who's still staying strong on campus in Ann Arbor, um, and others and Misha leader in in San Diego. All all of us went, you know, in that period of time and a lot of us went to different campuses. There was not a proper institutional structure. We were experimenting. We were getting kids. Today, Kabat on campus is a powerhouse. It's an extremely professionally run organization and it's wonderful of the tremendous success of Kabad on campus and everybody recognizes it today across the Jewish community. But I was coming there in a time when our ideas were looked upon as radical, where Kabad was tiny, where we didn't have, you know, today, you know, it's interesting in my role dealing with major Jewish organizations, I deal with the leadership of the American Jewish community, and they all know that we're we're we're a big success story today. In fact, there was just a study published by Jewish Federations in North America, and I spoke about it at their conference just a few weeks ago in Washington DC. They asked me to speak in a major session that the primary point of contact, the most popular place that Jews are choosing today since October 7th who are want to reconnect with Jewish community is through Kabat. And so the numbers today are astronomical, but in those days nobody knew us. Oh, who are you? And I would go to the local reformed temple or conservative temple and speak to the kids in the Hebrew school and we were like a cultural anacronism. you know, we came from the old Stethle and we were cute and we were different, but then we started opening up buildings down the block from them and things changed. But at this point, uh, and we had to fight a battle also for for credibility because people didn't take us seriously. And this was a a hard battle and Barashem it's passed and and I have a unique view of this again because again I I'm dealing here with leadership people in the country and I see how they feel about us and even though we may have the theological disagreements there's a tremendous amount of respect for us today among the leadership of the American Jewish community because success is what it is but it was a tough time to to get started and also people on another level you need to raise money today You know, you know, when you make investments in the stock market, you want to look at a stock that you think is going to rise and you want to make sure that stock, you know, is going to have value. In those days, nobody knew if the stock of Kabad had value and if its value would rise. So, and people thought we were a little too religious. So, they didn't want to invest in us. Even now, even the most secular Jew says, "Okay, you guys are a success story." I may not agree with you philosophically. I don't want to give you money. I can understand that. But you can't say that we're not a success story. >> And so fighting those stereotypes, establishing credibility, create creating an institutional modality that would work, finding programs that we we experimented with different kinds of programs. All of these different things we were pioneers and we were trying out different things. There was a few that came before us, Schlama Schwarz and Rab Stillman had come to UCLA a few years before. >> [clears throat] >> But in the early 70s, a bunch of guys went out to campus and we were like trying things out and getting things moving. But it took a while. >> Okay. Well Well, it's interesting you mentioned that because the kabad on campus of today doesn't seem seems to me it's not the same kabat on campus of your time. >> No, it is. It is the the guts are the same. But the difference is that you have a kid growing up in Cal in in suburban I don't know Michigan or California today and if he if he if he very possibly he went to Ghana Israel day camp and maybe he didn't but his friend did very possibly he had a he went to Kabad Hebrew school but if he didn't he's got a friend who went to Kabad Hebrew school very possibly he went to se but if he didn't go to sins he had a friend that went to se kabad is part of the normal culture now he comes to campus to go to kabad is like part of life. You know, there's a interesting Facebook po page called Mothers Against Anti-Semitism. It's got like 65,000 members and you read it and they say, "Oh, there's a great Kabad and Hill on campus. It's like this is the way it is. It's like this Ford and GM." In those days, they looked at us like a cheap car that came from Korea that nobody wanted to drive. Now, they say we're like Ford and GM. And so the and so this this is a and so young people today they some of them may say philosophically I don't agree with Kabad and I want something much more liberal and I understand that if that's where they're coming from but at the same time we're part of the fabric of Jewish life. We're the biggest provider together with Hill. The two biggest organizations running Birthright today are Kabad and Hill. One year we're the biggest, next year they're the biggest. Okay, which is fine. But the point is when when birthrights I think birthright by the way was the most important test for kabad on campus and I'll tell you the reason why. It was the first time that the major Jewish organizations let us compete in an open field and there was a lot of resistance to letting us do birthright. And at the beginning there were 42 different organizations. Birthright is a a gungag. It's an overwhelm. It's a general organization and they contract with providers different groups that run the trips. In the beginning there were 42 organizations. Now it's been whittleled down to 12. And of the 12, there's two really big ones, Kabad and Hill. So we competed in an open marketplace and the students voted with their feet to go with us. >> And that is a remarkable statement because nobody's forcing them. >> Well, let me ask you this before we we have to finish this segment of the interview. >> Uh how did you get involved with Kitser briefly? Uh and when did you get involved with the major Jewish establishment? What happened was is I saw some problems that we were having on on a on a larger basis. >> Yeah. >> And I went to Rabbi Krinsky who was the chairman of Kabad. This is going back 25 years. And I said, "Rabbi Krinsky, we have a problem. You know, we have these and these problems. We have to do something about it." So he said, "David, go do something." So I started get working together with other Jewish organizations. I always was of the opinion that we can't live in a silo and we also have a responsibility to influence those other organizations. So I started off working on some initiatives that were to ameliate some problems and then everything one thing led to another and um then I started dealing with the Jewish federations in North America trying to get funding for Kabad programs around the world and we have you know our relationship has been dramatically improved. uh still got a way to go but uh a lot of the top tier people are you know really wonderful people and um and they've been much more open to supporting us in particular in Ukraine over the last couple years and somewhat in Israel and also locally kabad centers are are getting approvals and then beyond that um eventually there somebody wanted somebody to be on the board of the Jewish Agency for Israel on behalf of Kabad and the I would say the the wise people in Brooklyn decided I'm the lucky winner and I to eat the buffet breakfast on a regular basis. So it happened in a slow embriotic way. So right now I deal with the leaders of the religious movements, the reformed conservative and the Orthodox and we did have a terrible tragic loss recently. You a true partner and a true friend in the head of the OU Rabosa Hower who was a uh who sat by my side in many different meetings and many different major community issues. And I really knew I had a partner, a a man of wisdom and a man of insight and of your shamayim and diplomacy and really a a wonderful person and it's a very big loss. And um thank God we've been able to forge some partnerships. There's certain things we can't do because we have certain lines we're not going to cross. But at the same time I've been it's been a very interesting I would say an interesting ride because it wasn't something I planned on. It just the responsibilities grew step by step. And um and >> let me ask let me ask you so um from the Kabad perspective do they do they do they really see you as their kind of representative on these issues? >> Yes they do. And not only that they have for us tremendous respect and and I I'll share with you an insight. Once a year we have a meeting of like 15 major Jewish organizations. We do a zoom once a month but we have a meeting once a once a year of all these major Jewish groups. >> Two minutes. Yeah. >> Okay. A very quick story. So they revealed this study from the Jewish federations at this at this recent meeting and there is different people from you know there's some people from Hill and Jewish federations and also was sitting there the head of the reform movement and at the end of the day we all had to give our assessments what we felt about the meeting and he turns to everybody and says you know what I've been thinking the whole day we need to learn from Kabad how to love your fellow Jew. So this is a private meeting it's not like the guy turned up in a kabad schol and and and he wants to make us feel good. It's this is a private meeting only with principles. The only non-head of an organization is me and he tells everybody we need to learn from us. What I'm saying is I think today there's a profound there may be people have theological and philosophical dis disagreements with us or they may think our strategy is not the best and they have a better strategy. I can live with that. But respect for our success and respect for our contribution is is profound. H so so what I was asking you was from the kabak perspective do they do they like give you the the the respect and they really see that what you're doing for them >> I feel very strongly that from within >> leadership leadership >> the the leadership of Kabad has been extremely supportive of what I've done and I think they've seen many many benefits in many different ways some of them have been financial support to kabad organizations and some have been the fact that that the way we are seen today is is one of the most important uh movements today in the Jewish world. I think we're the we are the largest Jewish organization in the world, but I think we've created very very strong relations that have been really really good and I and we've able to help and solve a lot of problems in a sometimes in a quiet way all over the world. The best diplomacy is not the one you do in the on the front pages of the New York Times. >> Right. Right. Now, I know that you you've