Professor Alan Nadler discusses his relationship w Chabad & Rebbe, interviewed by Rabbi C Dalfin #2

welcome back to meaningful interviews with Rabbi Kim Dophin your host I'm here with Rabbi Dr Alan Nadler of Montreal currently whose article appeared in a new book that was published in conjunction with giml tamos the rebba 30th yard side called The Oracle portraits of the re and has caused a storm amongst uh some leiters and especially schim emissaries of the Reba in which they feel uncomfortable Distributing the book and therefore hurting sales of course for the two co-authors uh D Zak lovsky and Marcus nin um primarily because uh of Allan's uh article and we discussed in the first interview and I thought Alan you you um explained it well and in which I said on the first interview I reread it again and my uh my animosity and the words that I used that you quoted which uh are correct I said you're a terrible person and I said you're a rebi hater and I asked for M forgiveness and you said clearly on the that you're M me and there's no sh zik no sh trace of of of um of you know of ill feelings um nevertheless we had a great discussion in our first interview about some of your views some of your articles and now I want to uh continue but before that I want I want to share with you Alan since I told you I'm an Insider the two people that called for the burning of the books and then one of them even said the burning of Alan Nadler which he later wrote in a WhatsApp Hebrew uh note because his prime he's from Mar Rabbi Greenberg out of Alaska the H um he said oh he he didn't mean that and I I believe he didn't mean to burn Al Alan nler but definitely very in inciting and and and wrong you have to know I don't know about Beijing but I FR but Rabbi Greenberg is known for his radical uh position he he speaks about it publicly and has a big influence over uh a certain segment of the youth and um his uh radical positions are are known anyone that follows the kabad world so it is it is unacceptable and I've said it and I'll say it again and I like Robert Greenberg and I respect his work but to to call for the burning of of a book and to call for the burning of a person is wrong and okay so you didn't mean burn Allan ad I I I okay fine it's like me you know me saying Alan Adler is a Reby hater but you don't say that and number two the burning of a book since when we burn books what is going on here the Reba is is looking down from on heaven and is very upset about his C speaking this way you can disagree agree to disagree age you don't want to buy the book you don't want to distribute it to your balaba to your congregants and lay people no problem but uh I just want you to know Alan personally that I'm on the same page as far as those two issues you want to say something go ahead yeah well I want to just respond to exactly what you just said first of all about Rabbi Greenberg as you yourself just said he has a lot of influence your words he has a big influence on a lot of young kadik and it is people who have an influence have to be especially careful about how young impressionable sometimes not all you know a lot of people who turn there not a critique a lot of people who turn to religion in general especially to enthusiastic mystical religious groups are people who um may have emotional uh challenges who are um I don't say that in a demeaning way there's something very honorable about dealing with your you know emotional challenges and and seeking spirituality but these these are people who can be unstable balet Chua as we know are more passionate and more zealous than others and especially and this is not unconnected with meninism if someone comes and says this is your Messiah I'm bringing you salvation we know what happened in the history of of the church um you know that so messianism is still connected with this because once you believe you have the mhi no one could say anything and that's censorship who censored books Christianity who burnt books Christians who so we don't want to become like them we don't want to come we and so that's part of my concern about messianism but getting back to Rabbi Greenberg he didn't retract his statement in some ways he actually doubled down I read what he wrote it's written in in Rabin Hebrew and he talks about all kinds of irrelevant things like you know roim from coru and guy I mean to me he also needs help because he doesn't right in a rational I mean I I mean but but but what he said was he didn't really he said well that yeah that's what I said Burnham but you know that's a lan that's a language that is used when it comes to machine baked mzas and guy and you know um most people wouldn't be able to read most even a lot of RA wouldn't be able to read and decipher that language because it's it's not just Rabbi language it's Insider Insider talk okay but I but I I follow you guys you're an Insider it's cdic lock locker room talk yes exactly s of right is this is their secret there but what he did say was they're just creating they he turned it into an accusation against him in other words they're inventing this pretending that I said Burnham so he didn't own up to it he didn't own up to it you know when you say something and people say Hey you shouldn't have said that the answer is not the uh you know I'm not expecting an apology but a full retraction that was not a retraction forgive me I I you know I I've retracted things in the past in writing things I where there was a mistake when you make a mistake you retracted you don't say oh others are attributing to me something I never said he said it I mean that's his words when you say and you have a big influence on young people who are finding Yiddish kite I mean it's not something you want to say because all it takes is one person one miger so he didn't mean it literally but that's he said it literally and he didn't say he didn't say you have to burn Nadler but not really in parenthesis he just said it and it was out there so once it's out there in this age of social media you put things out it goes viral whatever happens it's no longer in your hands and you have to own it you have to own it and he didn't own it I I I welcome him to own it and saying you know I made a mistake right maybe he thinks he's infallible too I don't know well I I uh in continuing that this discussion on this point just briefly um I called for in my in my interviews with Markin I called for leadership whatever leadership is and whoever it is of kabad to denounce his statement I I mean you know he is an important piece of a puzzle in theim world and he's done fantastic things and continues and if he's not going to going to own it then leadership should and regardless leadership should I mean you know the rabbi from Beijing and a rabbi from Alaska these are two prominent people and you know I'm going to get slapped for this you know you know and I don't care because I'm with the I'm with the the re I know what the re and and the real schim would never ever say such a thing think this way and and and would apologize like I did that I'm not a big shot I'm just I'm wrong when you're wrong you're wrong you say it and and you really make a you make a a real Tru regret insight and you make a change and with that I have another question for you I want to continue now would you consider mending the relationship as you are perceived perceived which perception is reality right um as someone who you know opposes a some level Kabab not misn let's Okay we already discussed that and would you consider saying on this program that you would you would if you if you you would rewrite this last article in a different way that does not come across as what's the word you condescending and what's the other word you used um cynical cynical cical thank you so my question is Alan would you and I want everyone to hear this would you consider that yes or not what are you asking me specifically would I renounce the article and rewrite it if you if you could give it a chance to rewrite it and to have it reprinted would you rewrite in a way that doesn't come out cynical no I would what I would take out was the um I mean because that's my tone I mean I'm I'm a you know I'm everyone who knows me it's part of my sense of humor I'm cynical about myself I'm C I have a very cynical dry costic sense of humor I've been that way my whole life so it's like ask me to change my personality and my style of writing when I you know um I don't want to talk about myself and my my writings but you know anyone who's read uh um one of the things I write a lot I just had one that just just yesterday came out in the Jewish Review of Books a review of Noah Feldman Professor Noah Feldman's new book about Judaism um there's there's there's there are notes always notes of humorous cynicism I mean I mean it humorously obviously when I say they look like moies even back then my father laughed he knew me he knows his son ah yeah and he immediately said yeah but they're very nice people so I want to seiz on that in answer to your question am I willing to say if I had to rewrite the article I would take out as I said in part one I would I would definitely take of the article a slogan I should have said something like his teaching his motto what he told me to say to someone you should be a dug MAA it sounded wrote it sounded like something that you know and and you know people have asked me so what bothered you so much it didn't bother me that much I just wasn't turned on and I walked away as I wrote the article and it no longer interested me I said I realized kabad wasn't for me kabad Isn't for everybody you know there's there's 13 million Jews K in the world and the vast majority of them are not kabad um now I would I would change that word and maybe something else if like if given an opportunity but I don't think the article should be changed or you know it's published it's out there and what's the M it's done um what what what what I what I would want to say is that I would welcome um I would welcome kabad um um saying you know reaching out to me and saying you know listen uh this is this was an unfortunate episode um and you know don't be a stranger let let me since you ask me you know about saadabad hater a Reb hater look the day after that article appeared I uh I was at the Jewish Funeral Home in Montreal not for a funeral but to meet one of the directors of the funeral home and I'm walking out um it's called paperman's it's the funeral home in my Jewish Funeral Home in Montreal I'm walking out of there and I see this uh very nice looking Jew with a h was funny and beautifully dressed and he looked Vaguely Familiar but I you know I'd been away from Montreal for over 30 years and we started chatting in the lobby and we both walked out together and he made some comments and I said ah you talk like a kabik only a kabic would use that expression so he said you know he was surprised he used a certain Hebrew I I switched right away to Yiddish which I always do and he answered in English but then he he used a word and it was a the kind so I said oh you must be aabn he says oh who are you excuse me what's your name so I said Alan Nadler he said oh my God Allan I thought you were in New York it was a rabbi by the name of mosha new Rabbi mosha new there he yes everyone knows him in the Montreal Jewish Community he's a very Rabbi and we had a beautiful chat nothing about the death threat maybe he hadn't heard about it yet I had just heard about it the day before and as we were talking another guy comes along alab who's Ain was Ain and my friend Rabbi P he's a well-known he's retired as Ain a wellknown so there's the three of us standing in the parking lot of a Jewish Funeral Home me Mo and Rabbi new Raa and we're having this beautiful wonderful conversation he's RI moisture Shore likes to rib me and you know give me you know you know because to to him I I'm in mned um these are people I mean Mo sure I love the guy he's a riot he's got a great sense of humor he's an independent Spirit he's a very he's a he's a he's a good kin too and for me to say someone's a good cousin that's a whole other story it's big that's that's that's High Praise lovely people so I mean you know that's that's the nice thing about smaller communities you know uh in in New York everything is so intense we're all Jews here up the street from where I live literally a block away from where I live live there's the rabbi that he bought a beautiful home a nicer home than the rebbi ever lived in that's for sure he's living it's is is is is the rabbi who's the head of kabad westm right he's my neighbor I see him all he sees me walking my dog all the time um they used to have the Suka kabad Suka on the rooftop of the apartment building where I live it's a rental building and they used to build the Suka on top because the the owners of the building are Orthodox Jews and they're very they he his assistant used to live in my building we're all neighbors we're all friends we can argue we can laugh um the last time I saw this particular Rabbi I was walking my dog past his house and it was L Boer and there were a bunch of people standing outside and they were drinking vodka and they had you know he has a big patio there on the street I walked by I stopped they offered me a l i said shahak and they were you know these were not I didn't see the rabbi but I mean they they he said here have a drink they join us for a drink cuz I said to happy L Boer and said oh how do you know it's l Boer you know I was walking a dog like a sheas with a baseball cap so I said I took the drink I said they said oh you you know your stuff because these are people who are not from you know and people in West Mount who are going Toad and they're Rabbi you know the rabbis is bringing them in so his name is Yosi sh Shane Yosi sh oh I'm blocking that I'm having a senior moment a Biden moment anyway rosi I call him so anyway he's the head of kabad in West M so I mean this is the way it should be this is Yi Silver Silverstein no not Silverstein Yi shov shitz shitz Yosi shanowitz yeah Yosi shanowitz y sh you know you know my cousins are all from you know the Dolphins they're all my cousins from Montreal I know the Dolphins everyone knows the Dolphins there's a dolphin building right across the street but they they they spell it with an E not an i they right they were all my cousins I don't know Seth do by the way Seth dolphin was the president of a where I was the rabbi temporarily bethl were Rabbi Kahana so he was the he was the president of my show you know so the do I know the Dolphins were all M so Rabbi so dolphin here's an example oh yeah the Dolphins yeah I mean that's normal that's the way it should be that I disagree with her but that doesn't get in their way they don't hate I don't think they hate me I certainly don't hate them I when I see them sometimes I'm walking to the Shar sh which is literally a block away from where he lives but but but but Allan Allan then it's a then it's a PR issue I'm talking to you you know to to Jew Heart to Heart there is there is this perception that Allan this is the perception in in in in in in in inab especially by the that Alan Alan Nadler hates us he he he he humiliates us and and you know so let's let's change let's change the pr okay I hate I mean it's ridiculous I don't agree with you I'm never gonna I'm never gonna agree I but somehow Alan somehow does is there room in let me just ask you let me ask you a question I know it's your show but is there room in kabad for other Orthodox Jews and for other rabbis to dissent without being called ha ABS absolutely is there really really yes absolutely I wish you I wish that were true but I I'm not talking about me now I'm talking about the way they talk about other much greater rabbis than I will ever imagine to be the way they used to speak about RAV Shah listen listen I wrote a book probably you don't know this called ponich and laich pich and kabad no I don't know it yeah I I wrote about Lakewood and kabad andad Berlin I I covered them all I covered C too I wrote 20 25 volumes on all all the groups and I I studied ra I interviewed people from the inside and yeah there's been leiters the ones that we likes of such that you know made those comments and others that want to you know chew my head off you know who cares who cares who cares well one one second I care if I'm on the receiving ANS I care one second one second but the fact is that the perception of what ra said the perception it looks very bad okay it feels very bad it the timing was out was was you know wrong in from our perspective so there's a a a PR breakdown and I think it's the same thing with you Alan I really do I'm talking to you fa but I mean I can't control you know you said earlier perception is reality well that's a whole that is that's certainly not the the point of view of sh perception is the opposite of you you should know better as a should I do I have to start teaching you Tanya I mean perception is not reality what we perceive is not right you know what I'm talking about exactly abut we perceive what we perceive is false so let's talk here Insider talk right baseball talk perception shouldn't be reality so how people perceive me I can't control that but they should know better especially who study Tanya should know maybe we're perceiving things incorrectly that's the whole point of the interpretation of Tsum as not right that didn't withdraw very good yeah yeah I'm the most dangerous kind of enemy of kab if you think I'm an enemy because I happen I happen to know a little bit I'm just Al I'm just curious for a minute yeah do you do you agree with Simpson or Simpson you have a different term neither I think it's all nonsense it's Lana cabala I don't no it's tum what's Simpson that's Simpson no I don't I don't though I'm not a cabalist I'm not into cabala I mean I've studied it obviously we're talking cabala here but but um I'm fascinated by it but I'm not a and I'm not a cabalist I'm not a makal you know I'm a my manadan but in the way that my monies isn't turned into a makob which also tries to do I got I got it so so go let's go back so the answer to my question is that um you you're you're not you you you don't feel feel that it's important for the image of yourself and the future to be come out with some more positive things towards kabad for them to see that you know you're a bunch of fun and then you're very bright and and you know colorful and all that well what do you want me to do say the rebis m i mean kabad doesn't need me I mean they keep saying they've reached more Jews in the world than anyone else you you're the subtitle of your book but you see but you see Alan that see that that statement you just said kabad says that's a cynical remark that really bothers the kabad but it's true you have reached all these people in the world what was cynical about that I just said you say you reached every Jew in the world you have so you need me to advertise for you I don't understand what you're asking you're asking me to come out and what praise to counter an impression that people have a perception which is a mistaken perception I've said it's a mistaken perception I just I love hanging around with what do you want me to say do I agree you want I don't agree gonna no no no why why not write an article at some point sooner than later in in which you you you enumerate the strengths of kabad what they bring today to Judaism I'll tell you what when kabad writes an article praising Rabbi Shak I'll praise kabat I mean it's come on this is childish it's childish I you're asking me to write an article to appease people who have who have been violently whose rhetoric against me has been violent listen I'm not you know I don't I'm not a I'm not a i I'm I'm not a pen for hire right I'm not a I'm not a ghost writer I'm not gonna write I write what motivates me you know Mark Asen said something very interesting there was this interview this program with Zev brener Saturday night you probably I I I listen to that so I would just I want to quote Mark here because he said something and I was thinking the exact same thing some woman calls and said why did you have to why do you have to include that article by Nadler there should have been only good things only good things you should be spreading only good things and Mark said that's not my job I'm a photojournalist I'm a photo you know which is what he is I'm an artist and I write I take pictures I'm inspired whatever you know and the same thing with writers all artists we write what we're inspired you know what the Muse if you will you know so when you write a book because oh this is interesting you wrote a book of RAB zman shakar a lot of kabad weren't happy with that I'm sure um so um um because he was a shes right he was part of kabad and then he started doing psychedelic drugs on chabas and you know so he he he you know instead of just getting smashed on vodka as if there's a big difference okay that's but no I'm not gonna sit down and write an article that I'm not internally motivated to write what I'm willing to say publicly and I've said it here is I like I get along with this there's nothing personal here I didn't hate the rebba I didn't I I never meant to uh to suggest that the Reber was a fraud I mean and that was I'll repeat what I said already uh I used a word that was that was not not appropriate calling something a slogan so sometimes we use the wrong word when we write when we speak and that I retract but I'm not gonna you know let's let's not be kinder here I'm not goingon to sit down and write an article about the wondrous world of kab it's not gonna happen it shouldn't be necessary my point it should necessary I got it and the listeners got it now here's another thing you come to the Reit 16 years old like what were you thinking and expecting the reel to say to a 16y old I had no expectation I didn't know what he was gonna say but I'll tell you my but my so why why were you disappointed because the expectations you use the word expecting the expectations whatever expectations I had had been drummed into me over a shabas that I spent there they were telling me when you see him you will see the when he looks at you when now a senior Rabbi said to me use the word expect my expectations were formed I was 16 right by rabbis with long white beards who were telling me when you go in to see the re you should know something when he's sitting with you in these are their words and others have heard it you're the only person in the world at that moment to him there's no one else there it's just you and him so I was expecting him to say and he can see right into your soul someone gave me this notion that there's a you know NE shall call you the re encompasses so it'll be soul to soul heart to heart and that didn't happen so that was the expectation it was an expectation thatn implanted in me I was going to see a man I was going to see the I was gonna so of course I was disappointed your fault the hype was too much next time aim lower you know you know no I'm tot now let me let me ask you could could it have I got I understand good answer could it have been that you were already influenced at the time um by Rabbi bar Baron barin and others didn't even know him I started learning with him a year later two years later okay no no no no on the contrary I was under the influence of of beler and I was exploring I didn't go to New York as a misnet again that's your first question in the last section no no I was someone who was very passionate I was about I wasn't a b Chua I was raised modern Orthodox in a mrai a Zionist modern Orthodox family and that's I still identify with with that old enlightened form of liberal religious Zionism at least ideologically um no I was looking for something more than my modern Orthodox school I was learning in a modern orthodox yiva High School it was I it was a z school we studied all kinds of things and I want I was looking for something more you know your average kid I was in banaka right the Zionist religious youth when your average the average kid in banaka isn't running on Friday to go to the Belzer Mikvah that was me I was a weirdo right I was in banaka but I was looking for something more intense I also had very intense interactions with sat neighbors of mine the owner of the bakery near where I live I I I got my first job like before I was a m delivering chickens for Rabbi M who was a and I was I would throw chickens on the front door you know we drive around Thursday night delivering shabas chickens so I met with them I and I was interested in in Satur satmer they made a mistake because um when I said my father was the chairman of the mrai of of Montreal they said dinata is a Russia your father is an evildoer so that was the end of satar for me not my interest because then I studied the rebis teachings by MOA I wrote articles about the satar RO um so there's no hatred of again you know I mean it's narish you know it's it's all narish I didn't go with an agenda I was 16 I was hoping to get turned on I wasn't turned on okay another question another question the big deal right okay in those years and as you got a little older did you ever sit at a with for two three hours I sat not not not not with the re with with no never never no no never no I did go to tishan I went to you know around that same time when I was about 16 I went the vision from Kaa came to Montreal one of the back then there was only two now there are three Vision CBA so the vision cerea came to Montreal and he and it was happening in in my High School auditorium because the kabad the the the visioners back then didn't even have a real SH now they have three shs for each of the rebes in monre so so I went to see the vision to Reb and I'll tell you something I wasn't impressed with him either it was worse because they turned over the table they were bringing him fish the Reb on a silver plate you asked me if I for I did not go to far BRS but I want to say since you opened that issue I went to see other rebers and um the what happened at viset was a big turn off for a different reason they were bringing the visionet to Reit his fish big piece on a long and they were climbing trying to not climbing on the table that only happens in kabad where you climb on the but they were climbing and the were clamoring to get the shim from the r the re had a little bit and they started and that fish overturned fell on the Schmutz floor where I used to play floor hockey it's Canada it was autz store our bubble gum remnants were there you know and God knows before Co and they them all started diving and fighting on the floor grabbing the fish from the floor and shoving it in their mouths sh you know so I said oh that's it vision is not for me I went to a lot of Tish and I went to the B Tish when I started going to there was only one re only one Reb who Reb who I found to be extremely impressive in in the vort he gave at in sh and that was the the SL um Rabbi Weinberg the last of the Weinberg who was SLB now it's barski because the Reb directs are no longer but I mean the and was a year before he died and then I I went to the Saturday night malava Mala and he gave a speech in yish but because they're from from Bel not far from kab all Neighbors in there and the SL re said something that I found so profound and so moving and I was also moved by the way the comported themselves you know they all dressed beautifully they shined their shoes their lit Fox um they reminded me of Rabbi mosanu who always has a perfect suit on it he must have a private tailor anyway but I digress anyway so these guys I was very impressed with the I was very impressed with the fact that they were speaking both Yiddish and IIT the whole thing so I asked if I could see the and I got to see him Monday morning in ER stroll and I went to see him privately and that audience that's the only audience I had with a Reb other than the laich Reb and the Bel the current B rebba when he was a very young man came to Montreal and I had an audience with him also didn't I also was not impressed with the beler Reb it makes you feel any better so maybe I just don't have the gene to be to get turned on byic rebis but not true because the SL when he spoke with me he asked me about myself he just wanted to know who I am and what I am and why I'm there and what brought me to slum and how I found him then he said he gave me a braa which spoke directly to what I was going through at the time I was going through some we all do some extreme emotional distress and he picked up on that and he said I know you're in distress and I know you're in a lot of pain right now emotional pain he didn't ask me what it was about he even said I think was your business is your business but I want you to know it it'll not he didn't just say it will get better he he said something to me very personally I don't want to share it that I remember thinking wow this guy now that's now I you know I'm not I'm not not no one no one in the world is immune to to um to spirituality so it's not as if I'm I'm and if they do they're just in denial they're in denial um you know they're just missing something you know there's something missing in their lives now the he got to me and and that began a Fascination I'll send you the article of my doing research into because there's nothing even today not a single book a critical academic B analyzing the of which as you know finally forab listening to you and I'm sure most of your listeners areab the SL Reit they they they they trace their descent from Aram of kalis the kisar of kisk and straight down right so there's the generation they go back to the was kalis right exactly it was kalis leich slon right and so this so the the and the SL the the Kiser of kisk and R of had a fierce dispute H and he condemned the Tanya the publication of the Tanya because he said this this is not he's spreading Casas to the masses and they shouldn't do that right right and he said it's right he he believed everything should be simple we shouldn't be teaching the s s Tor to the masses we should keep it everything has to be modest and we have to be and and there was a dispute about money it got really ugly right a dispute this was one of the great it was uglier than the dispute between the balatan and and and and and the vagon because it went on and on and on the V bat came to see the Von he said he basically closed the doors closed the windows said I don't want to even talk to him but the sler and the kisar so I'm just saying the sler rean maybe that's just who I am maybe that's my pin is okay but but but you didn't you didn't become no I didn't become a I'm not going to become a I am who I am but I was very touched and very moved by him I don't think but that's my question why didn't you why didn't you become if you were so moved well first of all unlike kabad they weren't missionizing me they there were no strings at they weren't trying to get me and you guys are the missionaries and I say that that's you're Evangelical you're out there that's whatab is all about from the beginning by the way there's a wonderful book by Nali loen all about this spreading the word spreading the word was always out to the world right so I mean by the way naali L were classmates at Harvard graduate school we both studied with Rabbi yorski the the Tona re that's another story but I was a student of Theona rebe who was a professor at Harvard Rabbi yorski I'm sure you know of him the my mon scholar and um and my let me let me ask you just because time is running out did you know did you did you know rabbi salic reash salvic did you have a connection with him listen Rabbi salvic I I I used to go to his shiurim he used to give shiurim when I was in Boston once I I I entered Harvard graduate school in 1976 and Rabbi solvi he was still in in mental in good mental health although there was the beginning of Parkinson's even back then but he gave a she a Gamora sheir on Saturday night and Sunday a and what did you think and what did you think oh what did I think mind-bogglingly brilliant mind-bogglingly brilliant and I became very uh very friendly with his with his son rabim Sol who's a scholar Jewish history and we used to have Thanksgiving dinner together but the the Ros blew me away I mean I was again I was okay so I was 22 years old but I was still very young and I was very impressed I mean obviously who could not be he was a he was a go godor and um but I had no relationship with him I had a relationship with Rabbi tski his son-in-law Rabbi yosh's son-in-law who was also the tolner rebba son and became the tolner rebba later on and so I mean for me to to say I'm hostile to was a he left and he became a communist on my mother's side on my father's side it was kaban on my mother's side they were he was from um from um and um was all the the brls would come on rash said we used to throw rocks at them the of told them you have to Stone them ston so you you don't have Monopoly on religious violence you know they used to so anyway now we we do we do have to conclude now but I I I do I do want to say as a final that I invite you I I I invite you you and I and a few other good laab serious guys to have a good and to take a little and to talk our hearts out together and and and all yeen I I I really you know it be good for me I i' I've enjoyed this has been tremendous so I want to I want to I want to continue some other time andem more because I have a lot more to discuss with you and you're you may regret this because next time I come to New York I have family in New York I have a sister who lives in New York and when I visit them I'm gonna give you a call okay and but you have to ensure my personal protection if I come out to Crown I will I will