Overcoming Difficulties & diff bet real and misconceived mental illness - Rabbi Chaim Dalfin

learning now Tanya chapter 12 page 32 and we are six lines from the bottom the last word on the line which is the word the last word of the of line number six which starts with Avo and is teaching us about the mahus the makeup of the banani of his prototype individual which is potential man to perfect themselves in the best way I've run if you don't mind viewing yourself and appreciate it so I've also doubt that ever now continues saying that the pain in the at the time of davening particularly during the time of Krishna saying the Shema and schmonesri and the blessings before and after Shema during that time there shines upon the individual something very awesome called the godos supernal intellect which is a lofty level of godliness that's that that is that exists only at that time and because it's such a special Godly Revelation it makes an impact to on the person below when he says and the blessings of Krishna and therefore during that time it feels now I want you to remember the word feels that I'm using right now because the alternative says the same concept it feels as though he doesn't have a yetzahara because at that time at that time he's truly connected to the highest level because he's given a a an assistance by God because God is shining down something very powerful and that's why you see during Shema and during during these times you see an average individual who takes it a little more seriously and that was a little more cover on the close their eyes you know thinks about Hashem or why is that because since from on high the channel for that is open so below when we Daven we we connect with it so therefore it feels as though is God what so what does doubt that ever say now let's continue line number six From The Bottom the last word what happens after your death because when this supernal wisdom supernal intellect of God's greatness is removed it leaves because it leaves The Temptations and urges return and vinaya on our awakened the holy in the left ventricle um has an urge of of taiva of of desire and lust the tivus to all worldly pleasures it's like an indominable some what happened over here because from on high the gift that you got let's call it like a spiritual impregnation which is not we'll talk about that later in Tanya in chapter 14 you kind of were impregnated with this Godly sensation during and afterwards the baby comes out you're not pregnant anymore you're on your own oh I'm on my own so what surface is back the real self which is urges so in other words what does this tell us that even at the time of schwannessrey it wasn't who the bacony is it was only something superimposed on him vis-a-vis trila Monastery and the person is is feels elated it's like I mean it's like you know when you come into a basement you come into a shoe you go to the coastal you go to the shipment whatever you come to a situation or you know you feel elated you feel different you feel moved you feel you wanted to chuva you feel you you you you your ego you want to read your ego that's very nice but when you when you leave you're back to the self let's continue Rock nations with above however since he himself does it does not have mishpat the Dominion over the ear the city meaning the body and the Heights OH see downtown is going back and forth Heaven he's playing both sides okay so he says wait a second you're telling me that after davening the Wrath The Temptations my shirt and the urges come back to haunt us okay so why don't I act on it they remember obeying this and acting it he doesn't do it in thought speech and action but that's the upper's question now Hillary why not if the urges are burning and and and and they're taking control why doesn't he act on it says the outdated but you know why because he isn't the only player in town there are two players one's called enough one's golden episode oh hello is is stronger in regard to action in regard to speech in regard to thought but as far as the soul is concerned the drive inside guess who's stronger than ever so the urges will rage but the pain that he has trained himself to to utilize the necessary Keys when the urges are are arranging and therefore he says quiet down well like we we say sometimes come body calm body take it easy now breathe breathe out come on breathe out take it easy I know you're getting very upset relax that's what's happening over here let's continue inside and therefore he cannot extend exert his Thai verb his Indulgence from potential to actual to do Atlas lavish so that it so that it would have invested itself in the limbs of the body but my saying action deeper spiritual mashada we're going on to top of page 17. foreign I have a question for you Heather why does the outlet use the word mamish by machova he says that never Shirley case controls the pain and knee so the baby shouldn't act against Hashem he shouldn't speak in ways that are against Hashem and he shouldn't think about things that are against Hashem right and take out the word momish the first word on page 17 are you Zion might say with me if you take out that word it would still make sense never surely kissed the Yates are tell you dominates the body to say in action in speech and thought I'm great I don't do it like I don't do alcohol to to actively to proactively make one's mind delve into the Indulgence in other words an Indulgence comes I have a craving I have an urge I have a desire to find but I don't dwell on it I don't dwell on it I don't start you know you know fantasizing and and making up these scenarios you know a virtual taiva to take the the Tiger in the virtual world and to say and make believe it's going to happen this way in that way that he doesn't do because that itself is also a Prohibition of hiri type aveira which we discussed thoughts of Aveda so my question is why the word Manish why do you have to have the word momish for there if the word mom is on the first word on paints you'd say it wouldn't be there would be also self-understood and there's a reason for it go ahead and that is for the beginning of the Tanya is when he says that the nepheus so so maybe it's like a hint back to the fact that the the the strength of The Godly Soul within him very good here we have you see now we could say to kill five years learning to see this with us for six years and and and he's on track he's learning to see this so it's worth this year for him to say that five six years later it shows he's thinking okay so what what let's just for a second develop what you said in marchava in thought there are two types of thought there is innate thought that comes to you when you slay down in your bed and you're you're going to get to a sleep you're still thinking and then there's active thought proactive thought not that you're kind of you know looking to leave thought but still thought doesn't leave you I've run thought is always with you right but that's not proactive that's just a fact of The Human Condition then there's a proactive thought what is the outdated saying here that by the pain in the by the band in the the makshava mamish the proactive thought is what he doesn't engage in but the subconscious thought let's use those words again I don't know if it's correct you know but seems to be the subconscious thought that always exists so how's that connected to what hill has said before about the nephew Shirley kiss that the nashama is an actual part of the Jew that's the essence that's the essence of the Eid that's the makshava that's tantamount to the makshava of the banana knee who who who has this inner quarrel between the urge and the action the urge and the development of the urge and without that is saying it is going to say more in a moment is that from that from to actually actualize concretize the makshava that comes automatically because that the pain in the can't help you hear that we cannot help that an urge comes to us you know what we were born in this world even if you didn't go to the Yankees and and and and and and and the Dodgers and the wrestling and you didn't do all those things so you have another you got another or she walk on Allen B you walk in Tel Aviv or whenever everyone already walk in Madrid everyone has urges being exposed to the world it's a world of urges and that doubted up on the stance and Dr Debbie says God's not going one second motion God's not going to blame you for that because your average person you were put in the world with tibers all around you you know what the holy to blame you talk about dictionary said about the Tanya he said if if if Hashem would put the tivus in the Tanya and the Tanya in the world it would be wonderful but what did Hashem do he put the time is right in front of our eyes and he put God in a little book called The Tanya and that's why it's so important it's a statement uh praising the Tanya that the altered took this Hashem and he put it into one little book but at the same time he said you have to realize the typos are all around you yes my [Music] classic oh the classic one yeah so when it comes to talking about mamish you know at the bottom of the previous page the rights into the actual into the to carry out this to carry out this desire from the potential into the actual by clothing itself in the bodily limbs indeed speech and persistent thought right this is persistence thoughts yes I called that proactive thought yeah the same thing okay I'm just trying to understand persistent thought means that you you dwell on it Maisha you dwell on it and that that's what that's what learning much is that that that's what that's what the bathing refrains from doing right because it's an official a kiss stops them it says don't spend time thinking about it and this is a very important lesson again also the rebel writes this hiva especially buckarin who wrote to the rebup out there what we call Sins Of Youth which is nocturnal emission you know and and masturbation and things like that and they would ask the red before a ticket for a chuva and almost consistently the rebel would say number one divert your thought from thinking about it don't spend another moment thinking about what you did now the number said memorize Taylor about pear is one tick on uh giving sadaka every day before diving is another tickling etc etc but the first thing was don't go back to think about it you know because if you're not going to get any closer to the solution and tickled because when you think about Sin you sink into sin as you're trying to get out of sin you're sinking so you know just don't think about it you need to do truva learn my heart is etc etc why am I saying that I'm saying that the altered says the same thing here persistent thought you caught you cited the translation of whoever translated over there persistent thought is what the banana knee does not do why because the nephew says don't go that don't do that don't do that the fact that it enters your your mind we're human let's continue and he says the first one the last two words he doesn't engage in Act of thought AHL malice tiger sleepy how to carry out to fulfill the Indulgence of the heart and here comes the altitude's explanation Issa how is it to say that it is this way very nice how drama gives a reason a logical reason he gives the reason and these are the famous words the Mind Over Matter in simple English the Mind dominates over the heart and he adds the words that's a novelty genetically by birth told us that the human being Avi every human being has you don't have to be a Jew for this you have to be a human not an animal and we're humans so by being humans God has put within the human condition the innate ability from for the mind to have the power to Shalit to dominate now now we'll talk about this later more what it's for like self-control yes yes but the word is Charlotte it doesn't mean to say that the left the heart is gonna go along is going to give you a hard time and to make the left to make the heart be on on par with the mayak it doesn't say that either here live without them is arguing and positioning is that Hashem creates the human being with the ability for the mind to control the heart control and now and look further he says he adds words and it's the nature of the of of creation of man's Creation The Soul Man was created by God she called them look at the word here check all of them it doesn't say this person yeah and this person not it's a Chicago every person he could she could with the willingness with the Russian with the willpower within the Mindless to control to dominate with the spirit of Indulgence in the heartless not to do whatever the heart wants or desires is from the Indulgence of the heart the craving of the heart to the very opposite to desire and crave good just gave us the his his shita and this is really the sheet of the Tanya but he says in chapter 12. that he believes that mayak be told and because this is his belief therefore therefore every person can't control themselves from the biggest Titus now here we start questioning and thinking about does this apply to an addiction that's a whole different that's a whole different story and it could be that in the addictive State this doesn't apply why because in the addictive State when it's real addiction there's no mayak what does he say here Maya what if you don't have a head everyone has a head but what if your head's not functioning I don't mean not function because you didn't use your brains you have we're talking about when if there's a if the head's messed up if the hell is I don't know psychologist you know whatever the conditions are that's a different story but as long as this can't control the heart but says the word China look at the word he says lie number four middle you have to be willing if you're not willing Hillel if you're not willing to use your brain that God gave you the fact that you were born with this capability is not going to help you because you're lazy yes my yeah I was just gonna ask you know when you're thinking you're a senate um mental illness um you know God forbid a suicidal you know Suicidal Thoughts um you know the whole rule of mental illness I assume is when you say that person doesn't have the ability I assume that I assume that's part of it that's part of it that's part of it but but you know you have to be trained and knowledgeable you know that it's indeed that not that it's an excuse you know every time they can hang will say I have mental illness my parents have beat me up my teacher beat me up I mean I I don't think that's what the outlet is talking about here but you know what I'm saying yeah that's wrong for the parents to beat you up but it's wrong for your teachers to beat you up and it's all wrong and and you're not blamed for that but at the same time that doesn't mean that you don't have you don't have a head so again mental illness and you know then it's mental illness and this is the the big question it's a big question I don't not uh one second not only in civil law it's also in in halach and the Gomorrah talks about you know when you come to give Adis is your is your is your testimony are are you are you well or mentally not well I mean that's why we have what's called where you're supposed to check out the Witnesses in seven different ways you know to establish whether you know mentally their their sound but but I'm saying that just to use this as an excuse or this mental illness here because uh his father beat him when he was a kid I'm not sure that that's what yeah that's that's the accepted way it was wrong for the father to beat him and attack it very bad then it needs to be dealt with it's true but that's an excuse for him for a David for acting on a table and and and again even if the tivers this a deep conversation I'm not deep I mean it's beyond the scope of what we're learning here Tanya at least for me because because you know you have to really be trained and I would think a person like a run tours and people like that who both are knowledge word and are and we're knowledgeable in the title's view really not just made up but really knowledgeable Theta uh plus psychology and Psychiatry you know I I would think that they are more the spokesman and the reply even the rapper consulted with him and Dr Landis in Palo Alto you know when he went in 1979 when they're ever called for making kosher Jewish meditation to give people who were doing Transcendental Meditation uh mantras that were associated with the idolatry that I heard the secret I was in Kansas City in the summer camp and I remember listening with youth base Thomas the summer of 79 and the Never spoke about this idea and I since read it and it was very good very careful in what he was saying he wasn't saying it's for everyone but he says for those that need it that will help them therapeutically to deal with their issues let us make a kosher meditative way where instead of using a an idol as a mantra to use a kosher thing so what what do we see what what do we see what's one of the things that I walk away with from that that talk that the Reba gave is that you know there are medical needs which go which go beyond without the representation no well why do we need that tell every everyone who who has issues what do you need meditation for what do you need the meditation for just like what are your little baby exert yourself work on yourself it's not so simple not so simple there are outside things that that that require uh professional help and professional techniques and uh I think we could all say in today's world you know it's not 79 it's 50 years later um it's only becoming more and more and anyone that's in the mental health field that has a connection to Tata will do good for for Yiddish guide them for Taylor and for for people by by creating good ways of of how that people with mental health issues can use it yeah I'm sorry guys will say it just seemed to see me I mean I just the two hills certainly comment on this much more but it seems like today we're in a situation where under what the two hills the same about this but it seems like the line between what's considered to be mental illness and just you know we live in a world outside of the secular outside world is basically saying that you know more and more that everything's okay and people are you know the the amount of um seems like confusion that so many people have as to what's right and what's wrong I wonder if in a meant that's why a lot of mental health professionals would would say that there's like it's like the line between who is like mentally healthy and who's not is sort of becoming blurred I don't understand yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah let's hear what Hillel Roosevelt Hillel yes what do you say first of all many years ago long before I was from a um a Jewish couple came to me uh for marriage counseling okay and what they put on the table as their issues is that they were friends with a number of couples and they would get together every Saturday night they'd have a big meal and they all have big houses and so they'd have a big meal together and then they would swap spouses so I asked the couple well why are you here so they wanted to know whether I thought that they were mentally ill so I said to them I considered this [Music] matter of choice it's right and that's what I said I said I don't usually say this in working with clients but this is really an ethical question and you should talk to your Rabbi about her so anyway that's one thing the second thing is is that I I did a little research and um because this whole idea of like what can stimulate and merge within a person and they would they might even say well I don't even I don't even remember what precipitated it so I I Googled the question how fast is thought and the initial thought based on exposure to to something is 100 milliseconds which is one tenth of a second and then this whole thing of the surfacing urge and what to do about it and everything that takes place after that first half second so a person doesn't even have to be aware of that first half second and they might not even associate that exposure to what they all of a sudden now are thinking about indwelling um so I mean the in many respects that's one of the principles that comes out of cognitive therapy and then just quickly the third thing is is that Mental Health there can be issues of Mental Health and that we're not qualified to be called mental illness first of all there's a whole set of personality disorders and the there are other mental health issues that challenge people that do not meet the mark of you know serious mental illness um we have to also remember that if we're living in an immoral Society you know it's like Sodom and Gomorrah you know we're surrounded by stuff that causes don't believe in our minds you know because we're getting so many different messages at the same time so what is your short answer to moisha's question moisha's question was maisha's question was he says it seems like today there's a it's been blurred the difference between real mental health issues and none that that's what he asked would you say yes no yes okay hello go ahead yes I'm sorry go ahead what I was gonna say I I was going to say the answer is yes because um there's a certain degradation you yourself spoke about Tel Aviv there's a certain degradation in society and at the same time parallel to that the more deprivation there is the less sense of attachment to Hashem and to Torah Etc and I think that um uh as another considerably said that there's a great atheism coming on the world and and um I think that we see we see proof of that in terms of even even um how people dress now um yes I have a one minute to take Kayla's point then I have to go to another sheer Hillel oh well just uh the tradition the way I was praying mental illness really include was really uh defined by reality testing and uh the term mental illness and um and that I think you could find a a parallel in the halacha to be whether somebody would be cultural latest whether the in term or there'd be putter because uh on the level of reality Justice I think what we've been discussing here is a confusion that's largely in the realm of what a kind of a new distinction in psychological typology of gender dysphoria of kind of confusion around identity and sexuality uh and uh and the efforts to kind of um normalize it or sanction it which I think is uh in the like hello said is is a kind of moral confusion confusion it's not a as as uh and um again very uh tragic and unfortunate but I think that the key distinction here is what we're learning it revolves around the world's razon because uh somebody who would be traditionally considered mentally ill is somebody who could not be reliably could be said to have a Raza correct in order to reality right right right but as as moisha said that's being blurred today yeah [Music] yeah and sexuality it sure is yeah yeah I think that that's uh that's a um and that is a kind of moral and cultural decline if you will yeah we'll learn tomorrow good conversation have a great day everyone sound Shalom take care bye bye thank you