Meaningful Interviews: R' Zalman Sirota #2

so welcome back to meaningful interviews this is the second interview that we're doing with reps alma cerota and uh i must tell you an absolute that i got raving reviews about the first uh interview already about 150 people have seen it already and tonight in jashem it goes on the internet and someone sent me a comment gold it's gold so um you wanted some feedback i'm giving that to you anyway we are at the point where you were talking about i believe your sister and yourself in high school or post high school and uh shabbas keeping shabbos and from there i'd like to go over a little bit what you did in architectural in israel and then come back to america and meeting the rebel things like that so please go ahead first of all i wanted to underline to make sure that people understand that we did what has to be done whatever the life pushed us to do that's what we did not that we made hashbaneness that we are doing it was no other it was no other option we just did what life we tried to be underrated as much as possible even though i think we got the authorities knew a lot but they let it go as long as it was not too obvious and so they tried to be to be to stay to stay low because unlike unlike the some refugees or some zionists there were such not that many at our times but before they they had a different program so to say and different goals and they wanted publicity and they wanted to achieve what we wanted to achieve but they didn't risk what we risk for us was most important that we should be able to keep pedestrians and to be mechanic to have right he knows right for and so we couldn't risk uh we could not take risks because we could really take away the children and i'm not talking about already a punishment other punishments or whatever but they could take away the children and they threatened to do it in many cases and so we had to be as much as possible under radar at the same time people talk about what underground so we may imagine sometimes literally sitting somewhere in this cellar and then nobody know they live normal lives relatively like everybody else in russia relatively with them for us it was more difficult even when i had an average russian because i loved you because the kosher food was more scarce and was more expensive but whenever we could uh obtain and uh and because of shamira shabbos we couldn't take any uh just any job and had to compromise and things like that so it was even harder for us but but at the same time believe that like the normal life they were like was in russia and we didn't sellers or had to they just be very careful and uh i'm just worried that people should not right yeah okay thank you for clarifying yeah and uh so now about you and your sister yes so because because of that but we wanted we couldn't kind of openly say that we but we are religious as soon before burmese robust mitzvah in the case of my sister we tried to go as little as possible to shabbos to should avoid going to to to school shoppers but sometimes it was impossible to get around it and so we did as little as we could in order not to be hollow shabbos uh however after brahmitz never went to school shabbos but it was it was it was almost impossible to do in a regular school where we lived and to be especially in the same school with my siblings so the signed up in schools in moscow which was not so simple to do but because my mother was a teacher she had and she was respected and she had connections and so we went to some special schools like my sister went to a school that was everything was taught in english it was a school basically the children of diplomats went with that school all the subjects not just will learn english language all the subjects were taught in english and she was able to enroll that school because she was a honor student and she was somehow my mother was able to push her through there and but because it was an hour commute from us and so we were able to say that it's hard to go every day we need another extra day off okay so so she can't just it just didn't go that's it but it was and since she still did the excellent school she was the best student in school anyway even that school and so we let it go the same thing and then later she starts she transferred to a school where he couldn't do it for too long especially you got all their so she's transferred to school there where we had very in intensive math like in in high school they already taught the college math and so she went to vets to tweet to that kind of a school i changed probably i changed probably i don't remember four or five schools i changed i came to different different neighborhoods school master i would uh and under different pretenses that was easy this was closer to i had some relatives or friends they could stay not to travel every day or whatever it is different different ways and uh it was not simple but uh but we managed to be managed and we've both finished high school and never went shabbos to school without without officially i suspect at least the certain schools the management the teachers understood probably what's going on but they since we were good students they let it go right now i assume some of your teachers were jewish some of your teachers were jewish yes so they must have known about shabbos right not necessarily you will be surprised but some did not and yes and and those who did like it was easier for them to pretend but we don't like i said and and some were sympathetic and uh but some were much afraid very much very much afraid but as long as you had some kind of explanation some kind of a cover and especially with a good student they had an alibi so to say if anything so why we hear stories about other hasidim their children their children who uh you know they they didn't do this that your you and your sister did is that because they didn't have connections number one yes was not easy to do and but number two it's only like i said maybe in samarkand and tashkent some didn't go to school or go down to school only limited amount of years and then pretended that they go but they live someplace else when they and we come we're hiding more or less uh or in moscow like i said the kanowski did it but he was younger he was much younger so if he didn't yet get to the edge with only certain he did it just for a few years a couple years he didn't do it and then we already left left russia but because yeah because it was impossible just to just to and especially in city like moscow it was you couldn't hide and it was compulsory to go to school right okay so now tell us about how you and your family left for eric's role okay no let me first taste as tell you give another few few examples okay so just on a side note me being a good student i had kind of a little bit protection there were some some antisemitic bullies and some some guys whatever who would want to attack you occasionally and but because i was a good student and i helped them with their studies so sometimes to help them at the at the test to help them to cheat and so there are some some of those protected me had some protection yeah one time yes i got into a fight with that whatever yeah one time whatever i was in a fight but usually i had some protection now when you mean a fight you need a fist a fist fight yeah yeah yeah yes they attacked me yes one time whatever but in the street but but usually kind of about guys who and the others knew that they have protection so they left me alone and i don't know but i said but they just did what had to be done and uh the way the hinok was i wanted also to say how we were very careful with min hogan to just to keep every minute that was kind of the mother's milk the beginning but it was important every little detail not just to maintain of course we knew with smear shabbos was the most important thing and culture was to not to eat any anything anywhere which was a big problem i kind of was going out going living leaving home it's like eight in the morning and and coming back five in the afternoon and they had nothing to eat there was no way anywhere we didn't have snack kosher snacks or anything you could afford bernie could barely afford fruits and and i i couldn't wash somewhere with no facilities for me to and to wash and i wouldn't eat without washington three times all with me and so and so i really kind of uh was coming off half fasting every day almost here literally why one second yeah why why didn't your mother send you with some food which what food that's what i'm saying what they didn't have snacks and uh nut snacks an apple an orange okay so it was very limited because it was very expensive we couldn't afford a city like moscow it was available in winter months summer months was was easier but because it grew locally it was much cheaper but whatever grew but but winter months was very expensive it was available but very expensive for pacer we would get more whatever it is we would because of another because we had barely whatever matters we had and uh it was not and we were very very careful with uh about uh massachusetts we didn't eat much with anything even with dry foods and uh and imagine little children what you have to eat potatoes basically because in all kind different ways so whatever you could whatever you could uh grind the cooked chicken whatever to give to real real real little children whatever there's nothing there's no nothing was no no there's no question milk or holy i forgot about pastry milk and what about eggs eggs eggs we had eggs we had okay so so but be really kept to as to as much as much as possible you do him and min hogan was very expensive like i remember since i remember myself really i always said the whole conscious is coming now to choice i always have to hopefully control it and uh and uh we said that they knew about to say the capital till him and they said and then later we found finally found out about the rabbi about which capital it serves as we said that too and uh i'm still saying rabbi asks capital because it's not the indian to stop what i'm just saying here goof members every day um the point you're making is not all not only were you were you keeping the big myths the big misfits the he the smoke the hedorium to me and hug him the things that seem to be insignificant you kept as well which which which which reminds me i want to ask you let's see in a two day yes were you able to get away with not going both days to school yes because now in such a day you would have to get them to go to a doctor and get a get a note that you were sick and things like that but this since it was not it's not was not every week and it was not happening too too often so it worked yeah yeah okay okay and uh also uh i i ended up on time in the hospital when i was 11 years old and i had to be in hospital for a couple weeks the challenge was because it had to be treated certain ways which could be done only in the hospital those times anyway and the challenge was no food they didn't let we didn't let visitors inside the hospital was only certain hours and so today you have to go in a special room or whatever but it was that kind of a thing in russia and we were afraid of infections or whatever things like that but it was that kind of thing and you they wouldn't accept food for outside food it wouldn't allow in so it was so the point is it's not just that i let's say only would would eat on bread only or hard boiled eggs if whatever i had to even though rabbonium told me but i can eat many things or certain things but i i didn't i didn't want to and i even i i even fashioned uh from paper something to have in my head because it couldn't be where we were we had covering otherwise and they left me something like that i didn't have a cedar couldn't have a cedar there so i just doubled whatever i knew by heart but the food was the problem was on top would be me not getting enough food or whatever whenever we had these meetings with the family that came to visit i they had canned something in their pockets or something they would give me something to eat and we had to do it quietly in that corner somewhere you know but i'm not talking about that you kind of you couldn't show but you're not eating day after day or thing whatever so i had somehow and we didn't even didn't have napkins so to say whatever they gave you a tray of food but those times and maybe one napkins but i had somehow to hide the food from the plate like whatever whatever whatever hamburger i mean whatever i had to hide it somehow and then i would flush it in toilets and the shavers should think that i ate it right you had you had to do that and you already knew understood that you have to do those things it was well but such a life so another it just did whatever the life it was natural but because that's how we lived whatever had to be done we found improvised found ways how to do it and okay i would sell also something just something i had i have a had a friend and uh could be the kind of machotonium but lately uh but later uh abram will press my husband he lives in now and he is actually was teaching in moscow the coil for people walking people and he is traveled back and forth until because of it now don't zoom anyway he became my brother-in-law later he married my older sister hello i met him i met him in moscow in the show in 2019. okay okay so so so but actually he is [Music] that way um his mother was a goldschmidt was a gold goldsmith and my one of my father's sisters married the goldsmith okay uh anyway so he came to me to be i was in tashkent like i said a couple times and he came to me to visit also a summer one summer whatever his he was he was with us so we kind of had i learned with him also and but my zadar was teaching us to give us talk together when he was by us so one time he when he was a moscow he'd been he needed in tashkent they needed to get him for for just for film they needed him and they couldn't and couldn't couldn't obtain though at that time local local video from bruce from grocery of russian georgia the somethings we made they produced that cities gideon whatever but not all this was available not quality was not so so whatever and uh so the second excuse me to give them are used to sell the trillion right correct yes but sometimes if you had to you had to check with film or fix film whatever so you need a new new old feeling that you would obtain from older people who passed away whatever they did right so because we know they didn't have nude film in russia and uh so we needed we need to get in there so and the rabbit levin and show used to get from we used to send him from from the united states rabbit tysons to come and others whatever he would bring him supplies certain things appointed by the government the official rabbi and he he was a real he was a real role he really was up in uh london and he he you can you could ask him a child even talk to him and learn but he was he was not very much afraid because he was expected but the government to tell them everything was goes on and he he didn't have it easy and so he used to say himself quietly to the people whom he trusted but we should not talk in front of him about anything because that way he has nothing to to report if even even under torture so to say that was the whole thing but people everybody knew in general released whatever that we had to know i know people were afraid even to talk about the rabbi even those people who maybe were more in the know it was you never knew who is present of which balls have ears okay so in any case in any case we went i went with i my i knew robert because i used to go to school to meet at that time it had also a large faber he knew my my my said them i say they were kind of already was more open about but he's religious he didn't hide it he had a beard and he didn't hide but he had an older person they let him go whatever because he's already was another another person and it's okay so he's religious we cared more about young people but also had a beard oh yeah yeah but that was expected because he was officially right yeah yes yeah and uh yeah what i wanted to say is sort of and my soul may say that was you getting from him what was he what he would get from tomorrow from hotel from from outside and so he would give maximize to my zeida whatever he wants so we haven't had mcdonald's medium every year um but he was obviously afraid to to have con contact to give anything so but i went with the remote press when i went to get i went to his door ask him to get him but we knew whatever if he had just killed him so he was a little bit reluctant but he gave us a hole he gave he gave him a whole role of gideon because he knew me whatever so so he gave it to him quietly and whatever he gave him regarding god give him um but then he noticed on his shelf say framingham and everything never knew such a thing we never saw such a thing didn't even know it exists and we saw with this cross logo we saw something booked with himself who needs wants it whatever he didn't read it yet whatever but but he was afraid and it was obvious whatever but then you know what what he did to us he he he said i i have to go somewhere for an hour or whatever i'll do whatever and he left us alone there so in other words he he was afraid but the balls have ears but he kind of understood but he's going away and he didn't tell us to leave so we just he let us basically sit there for an hour and look through it so what else whatever we could you could look through through that time because he was afraid to that they should look at it by his where like this okay he he'll heal left and kind of be away waiting for him to come back or whatever just sitting there and that's what he took something from the shelf and then and we looked at it whatever i'm just saying how how things work and i hear you and so that's how you found that's how you learned a lot of new men hugging yes yes okay let's let's continue yeah yeah so what uh how did you now tell us about leaving russia coming next row all right so there so people started to apply to only individuals like ramen footage but they applied already in the early 60s and they eventually let go but people were still afraid even to apply still like closer to around mid 60s people started to apply certain families right and but they refused people they were getting refusals until all of a sudden like in 1966 they let a few families out and uh like the hazard family left in 66 the fall of 66 and when some feminists left in the beginning of 67 before the six day war because after six they were you couldn't even apply again for a while okay yes but then in 69 we already accepted again applications at least even though they still didn't have diplomatic relations with israel but but they accepted already applications but we refused most of the times most of the people like in certain individuals just a hidden school of a certain age they did let out but mostly they didn't and so they refused us also numerous times my so my aunt but he needed an invitation from a reality from a closed reality family relative officially so people some people had like hazard had a lot of relatives but some other people had two but others have to create one so to say well all of a sudden like so so my uncle my mother neras he his his wife had a sister who perished during holocaust and she was in a ghetto and but she survived and with her mother but her father and her younger sister perished and uh pretended somehow after certain people left she gave exact information about her sister two of those people and they created some person supposedly who were in israel who who was her sister which is somehow survived and she didn't even know about it supposedly and she sent her an invitation but long losses lost sister right and and so they applied also that so that way they applied already in in in 1665 66 whatever they applied already and they were refused and at that time my cousin david oliver he had he didn't send him to school right away at age seven you had to go to school they didn't send him because they pretended that his health is not so done whatever he's still not ready so we're able to keep him at home for another year but at aj they couldn't do anything so we sent him to send him to school and and then school here his mother they figured out and they had someone who was really kind of believed in the system so to say and what whatever and give him very hard time and they really very really threatened my uncle but they will send take him away put him in a special home and then say and and take care and things like that so my uncle decided since it was really such a situation and it was also some idea like maybe whom did we really let go like a couple of families they were more obvious because like hazard they really had an open house and and he fought for the meek where those problems that they should be kept open and this and that so the people figured that was already not so dangerous and they kind of they don't didn't want to have those thorns in their sides those people so he decided to go open my my uncle and so he let his beard go and he registered but he but got permission also to leave russia and there was remote remote coverage became big became became a shaker but he needed to have supposedly help and he registered his official shaykh in through the moscow too he's ashamed also and so he don't open kind of but he's religious and he is uh and he and his children religious but that's how it is and he applied the same time to to go and they refused him and he went again and again to different ministries and to different to different government agencies and his sister found whatever and her sister wouldn't come to russia and they want to be together and this so so actually he was let go in the beginning of 66 before six day war like after the height of the touring of 67 he he left he left he left and this was a number and another ingram in moscow uh william had cernev who also decided to go open he became the balcaera in the big school in the labor of lebanon's shoes he was leaning every shabbos he knew how well how to learn he had a good voice and he he learned that officially from the embassy older people nobody had been afraid to show but but they are with their throne openly and and he also got permission kind of whatever is before before others because like i said at this point they didn't even want people to know that it's possible to be to to to observe everything and possible even to apply to russia to do to go to israel to go outside the country and so it was it was that kind of time but so after after so so our my uncle then started to send us invitations and because russia's had signed the uh and the u.n the international signatories to reunification of families after world war ii and they were members who were over all that so they were the treaty so they they couldn't officially we could not not accept documents we always found the terrorists were not yet ago maybe you know some secret government secrets maybe maybe whatever they think it's it's not justified or better for you here let them come here we would always say let them come here and and things like that so but but officially that's why they accepted even the evil letter people apply and so he started to send us invitations and they had kind of agreed on time we said to my grandfather a couple of times that we've let him go but but not not his daughter not not with young people young people we wanted to keep to keep uh to make them communist and to be whatever patriots of the country whatever why would they both be okay he wants to build the sun fine you let him go and he refused he said no he's not living without his daughter and uh he's very close with his daughter whatever he is not his wife wouldn't leave her whatever he's not living and and they refused us many times but eventually in the beginning of 1971 they let us go the kind of yeah 1971 brothers okay so what are you doing what did you do when you came to eretz's role you uh okay i came to enter this role it was everything kind of new to us initially they wanted my uncle lived in your shrine already established people universal island but we went initially we went there we spent the space survey was just before pesach and we spent space there and then we settled in because the rebels established and wanted the russian jews see because those were they with about 10 initial families who went kind of slickers who the rebels sent to establish even before anyone came out of russia because before people started to to prepare so it was if it wasn't was absolutely when we came many more than 10 and probably more like 2 million like you know we the finest alive probably in israel in another city and was kind of already very official but he was kind of a member of coil also basically was that he was yes and and two children to two sons of uh of uh frank wolf um nothing and mendel many wolf and uh he already opened the hater at that time when ronaldo was in charge of that and not yes uh i have three brothers actually and there were three brothers of coins and coins coin whenever members of coil invent joined there marvel friedland and bernstein circus i remember the names uh herself well okay i'm saying well they were really real serious uh and uh and finishing light so it was it was it was something something to yeah so you you you went to learn there no i didn't learn there but i was there a lot of times i was there now i i tried to go to bahaba this but i could not be in bhagavad-gita for health reasons i had allergies and it was very bad the climate for me there so i couldn't i i couldn't take it so i i was over the short period that i was there as you know i i tried to rush lime but it was a little bit different style whatever then i went a little bit of that it was lit i had some friends there because and he there was a couple more five very fine bought him so i became very friendly with them and so i i just learned with them as i said i was there a few months i wasn't not accept visitors at that point but we made an exception that the people who knew him from tashkent for bring with him whatever from from russia for modern days they let a group of people to visit him so my father actually visited him and uh and also my uncle rebelli proclaimed who he lived together with them really in the same same same uh so and as couple hours they actually they actually still visited him on on when he was he was bedridden already very sick but i i know i never even saw him okay so how long in total how long did you stay in arizona okay i ended up actually staying after so long but i should have uh because they see since we had to renounce our russian citizenship when we left russia that's what made us to do and pay a large fine doing that so we automatically became citizens of israel right away when we came to us as well so so at our age you had to go to savannah unless you're in shiva you could you couldn't return so people would not go through the army yeah so we wouldn't let we wouldn't let you go to hotel or you couldn't go you couldn't people to go even for a visit the only thing that they accepted is uh what was a deal made for go for a year the quota was a special arrangement to go for one year of recruits and that baby that's the only way we left we let go to go out to be to be able to be by the rabbits from russian they did let to go as tourists just supposedly only for a month for for a few weeks whenever they did give a matrix here that some all know some older older like los angeles but i i i would not probably let me go and everybody is said there but then i was still kind of we had this irrational mentality a little bit uh with another kind of uh afraid of the of of authorities whatever but but the better to go the recruits of the whole year kosher whatever not whatever then we'll see whatever it was after that but it goes from just for a few few weeks you have to come back because otherwise we've ever speak about it because if you don't go back they would let the next person go and uh so and we wouldn't give a visa just like that uh yeah and uh the jewish poisoner had had to arrange it to be the american consulate and for whatever we would whatever he was is instrumental in that so he had his he had to keep his board and his reputation so you couldn't risk problems obviously if you ever went so so i ended up staying in a stroll for longer i've just only event went when i could already get to go between so what when did you come to new york i came in new york only in uh it was exactly zine nissan planet base before yeah and you were part of the future yes tell us about that tell us about the feeling you had when you saw that ever it's not just me i'm a whole group of friends from russia we all came together okay yeah but the whole footstep was maybe only 15. about 15 basically since then you were you were in america right uh yes except except it was some kind of whatever we had to go officially back after after place after after after a year after the following pesos and and all the israeli boys went before bambam what happened the rabbi asked personally uh from the fine proof that he they should work to let all the russian broken to stay for another year we didn't know about it we found out about it later all of a sudden after they applied for us for another year they refused they refused requests van gogh he went so far as my dancing met because because rabbi asked he he met privately with moish dayan to ask to ask a favor without exception and he refused and not just bad but he refused he said if you're not going he gives he gives us a week to come back if not everyone will be arrested wow and they'll be arrested even when we come back and we're not you're not going to let the next year's courts to go to to go at all so what happened though so they had to go back they had to go back not to engage endanger the goods and then coming from that scooter so the they had to be had to go back but we they had kind of a hidden clawless and grenade nothing from the rebel and the shabbos fabric it was very hard to leave it was actually it was the shabbos melo okay t-shirt was coming all of us and the rabbit told us to go for bring with this masking to go in every achievement of this hole in every big place community and for bringing them with them from but then the rebels stopped and like already turned to go back to to to him to his hater and he went it rabbit turned back and the rabbit said uh and and it should be baslow harabo we all took it but but we should have a slother coming back okay and that's what happened i got i got i i resided well i came back the first one actually won i know yes i probably was the first one when over rosa bilinkin was a husband actually so they let him also come soon after because his husband was in america his colleague was yeah i was i was back i was back from her brain and i came just before her bringing your demotivation and in the mid in the middle of being capable mind you how did you get out uh only only americans were actually were getting out getting out only during the night night hours the flights were night hours with and military planes accompanied the plane and it was very hard to get the tickets whatever but i just went and joshua in some connections whatever i was able to get a ticket and then she said to airport straight and how did it happen i got i got in mail listen to that i've got a protest i got i got in mail uh at rates here to go i didn't have any other health reasons okay if anybody didn't want to go there but knew in russia how to do how to play games so to say whatever and uh also you have to do it in the classroom in order to go not to go to the army that's another big challenge in russia and then you finish high school as soon as you're 19 years old they they took everyone nothing to enter into army for a couple years two three years to wear to german army but so it was a no-no and the only way not to go was to go to a university which was a problem too because there it was also hard to keep shabbos okay it was compulsory to finish high school and he already did went to seoul to such lengths to to keep shabbos and how would you do it anniversary at the university so and kind of was big challenge and on the other hand not not not to go was there was a problem to take the army and when it was a problem they wouldn't accept jews to the colleges so easy to universities it was the headquarters another unofficial official was no discrimination but in in reality we had quotas and it was very hard to get in depend especially to better colleges whatever it was very hard to get in and uh since still still the best scientists the vessels were still jews but because the best they still kind of somebody did take in and but it was hard to get to to get in so it was a challenge so some man many went to universities because we they had no choice the only other way for us to start pretending already at a younger age but you are have health problems and you have to go constantly to doctors to make files total sage to be all documented and who made it more than it is whatever and but still not so not so simple like my friend the person he was a real in a psychiatric ward we put him he was really spending time there and giving him medicines and and it was not so it's not so it's not so simple okay and uh and and and and why are you telling me this what's the connection i forget the connection but next time you how to play that game but they didn't unless so if you kind of have if you have a tour then you can go when there's no problem right he wanted us to be to go to wherever that's why we did it right and you were able to get out in the middle of the young people yes because i wasn't already i was already all the details there whatever the final was i was there before before and i got in mail monday morning it was started with on my sunday morning keeper was shabbos and keeper was shabbos i got i got him mail because it was mailed out before the war i got i got a permission a athlete c in in the in the mail i also said that i was in the middle the middle of some treatments in special treatments in america and i had papers i went to doctors here in the united states already prepared for it and and and they and and they've got i got athletes here to go out in mail about it that was made out before so that's why the next few months everybody went out and yeah paris lane managed so so well he got such a tour really up to for from from the army but it was he was written in his file but he's not subject to any further evaluations we should never even try to evaluate him again but he's dangerous he can't get take him environment he's totally off [Laughter] so so so but i want to resolve what i want i want to go back to the i want to go back to the to share the feelings and when you saw the rebbe and spending um you know the uh listening with the rapper and pesach anything comes to mind how did you feel i mean here you are it was it was it was overwhelming it was overwhelming and uh but we were part of the regular quotes and the part of the story and you had kind of yes you had your heaters how many times did you have your heaters no i had my heaters even though i came it was long after i came because my my game of lettuce is another so i had the heaters on my own emulators but i didn't want to break the push break the rules and the way we were raised in russia but you don't uh you have to prepare you have to be ready whatever you knew venue but when and you know i never get ready so we kind of didn't push and we didn't want to take away the hardest times the different mentality still later i later i regretted that i didn't go more often if he does and but it was still a different mentality we had but you just just don't just don't go into hideous just to go to to go to uh if you had something i had something to write i did write and i got some sometimes uh you got tens or short answers longer answers this this idea but i didn't anything you could share with us anything from those answers that's no i'm serious for people to hear an example of an answer to an issue um i i i don't care i can't just have to think about it okay okay okay okay okay okay and uh let me ask you this when did you get married in llama dwarf so you were in new york from 72 to 76 all those years and all and all those years you were in yeshiva i wasn't in shiva however i i started to get involved with through the organization yes i that initially just started uh summer every other boheme used to go to the americas or to be counselors in camps yeah and some seventy basically was city was sitting only the slogan the quotes the fruits had to be in 77 right during the during the summer i came during the summer otherwise so i went to also to be to be a learning teacher in ghani seoul there was a division of for russian immigrants russian children who came out of russia yeah so so so i was i was there somewhere it was it was initially i got involved in but later abram saw him when it came hanukkah pesach other things involved during doing the smithsonian and then i i got involved everybody's by the cover protest but also it was summer i started it's summer my friend uh lost los angeles already was married and he worked in three full time and he among the other things visiting families other things he was in charge he was started to do breeze mirrors i was gonna organize for for russian boys who didn't have it in russia yes yeah but then he and the summer it was summer la medalis i think yeah 1974 summer he he went to australia his uh uh sister-in-law he's got married to gopin and he went from hustling with his wife he already went she's from australia he said he spent there so he stayed stayed there for for for longer he stayed there for like quite a number of weeks so and since it was summer anyway she but yeshiva was not kind of officially 77 so i i started i took over his responsibilities kind of more or less right so uh he left and so i got involved and then more more russian immigrants came and they found more boys who were not demolished in russia and i got involved particularly but particularly in the in in that in that thing and the challenge was at that time we were praying we wanted only in the hospital to do it so we had to find with the hospital the doctor who jewish doctor remember who would go along let them oil do it actually under his responsibility and not every morals kind of was would be trusted that much not with husband charlemagne but still the doctors have a tendency to do it certain way not exactly sometimes whatever and we were afraid to let go to cut a little more with them and i thought i found at that time he came back from israel he wasn't actually learning incredible in israel he learned in israel and i involved him in that so i took him i was very confident with him he would do but he would not he would not give give up a millimeter whatever whatever he wanted to do and and he was good also but nobody knew him but through that people started to know of him some of my friends told him took him from their own children and then people started to take him to use him as a moral and but i was got involved in that and they've had more and more even when he came back from australia still he was enough work for both of us to do that so i was already part-time learning and achieving part-time doing well let me ask them yes okay let me ask you another question which has see them which has sydney and crown heights did you talk to fabregan with like about ramayana they were still older sydney and you have to be part of that good version partly so we couldn't miss a sega in the 717 go to his side we wouldn't let even anybody else come there but it was best was the incentive for for boshin to study in in ocean parkway so i will never ever learn from the real khan nevermind [Music] i'm sorry for interrupting your your cousin your cousin david eldert right yeah he was very close he was like this uh he was closed because of hazorah because because he he he would go he would be he would go shabbos after bringing into his house and then we would just hazard the brendan and uh and then walked with him on that and he thought he was involved that way very much strong and for that she will let him anyway okay if he wasn't a terrorist at that time he was not even in 770. uh but what about what about a night or more or whatever well he was struggling that's but again not during the sega other times so you know yeah and what about what about the enigma in your mother did you have a relationship with rabbi mentholic or robert carski uh no no robert pikanski was giving a or claudia gone someone sponsored vehicles or whatever and and mentioning more or less also the same but it's not uh but i must say that we we did not get what we still needed because we in russia we learned even though we learned and we knew hashem more or less or even stressful and whatever even marshall but we didn't learn people at all it was not such a wave no it's not no no so in the beginning it was we couldn't understand brochure and even kind of whatever the way that those those those kind of children and and there were no other children so we kind of he gave us assurances so this was at least like you know we'll be learned kind of whatever but otherwise we were not sure him in england and you could ask you should just go to west government or write produce to see it also whatever so you could ask them when somebody was rubbish but you you could ask them questions if you could ask anything they need glock see this whatever he was around but he was reluctant to answer you had to really to to dig dig deep you have to ask again and again announce him it's for him really it's really transcendence or more it's depending how much he has but how much asked how much cancer that's what's his his weight did you did you so who in christ who in crown heights did you have a relationship with from khassadin i i actually i actually i actually i actually persuade the trouble sean marosa at some point to give to give to give a shield to give us a shield just you know just just inside the inside with this face with my shoulder just to give to give a shield i'm about but the problem was only my a friend of mine in my harusa he was a flamingo parent he participated in that and a couple more broken were supposed to participate but it was not with equator to even though it was more even from from us in learning but we were sitting and kind of whatever kind of not learning much you know because light there but they would not go to bashir so we were basically more or less two of us and maybe someone else joined one or two boys sometimes and we have to go every time to know him to go after him and to make him come to them so it has held on for for a couple of months and then when it kind of kind of when it stopped so did you have did you eat by any anybody boss and any any any family did you have yes i did i did actually shabby sometimes shabbos so you want sometimes i would go to the bagan because he was a friend of mine my father from tashkent we learned together in terms of tashkent and that's when my father would stay when he would come to to they okay so then you got married in 1976 yeah and beginning again when did how long you you you lived in crown heights you moved to new jersey or what i know but so since i got involved more and more with bruce miller and at some point listen to that okay i can i can i can tell you where to ask me what i wrote about me writing forever at some point i just i wrote forever but but but what i'm involved even the revenue kind of because every breeze before every breeze i would give the names to baba please king who was kind of my spirit free and i was close with this king and i was abandoned kind of there and he would give take the names rights so many boys who have having a breeze i had some some bits but i would have three four six seven boys in one beak to have prison and sometimes one two different hospitals same hospital different one doctor and i had to arrange it all and had first class i forgot to find those more boys to each one through more word of mouth and then to persuade them to do it with parents all kind of ages and the and the not just boys also grown-up men too okay and to arrange it all the doctors make appointments and then to take it on the day to bring them to the hospital and then to take them back home and never and all that okay so okay i already didn't have that much time to learn okay but at some point i wrote a long letter to the rabbi sat down it was amateurish obviously remember and the sunday was there i wrote a letter but i think i still i still want to sit and learn that sicilians happen to determine in my age at my age and uh but this what time this what i'm doing is takes away all the time takes a little more so much time and i wrote i wrote such a letter and i gave it in the letter sunday morning i gave him the letter one second please was this before you got married yes of course how how old are you then all right 21 22 22 probably 22 22 22 no 22 yeah 22 23 22 23 yeah 24 23 yes and i i wrote such a letter and i gave in i gave in i gave in to to i gave again i gave it in sunday morning and the representative oil i will trade this yeah yeah the representative oil after minha and sometimes i wrote sometimes a small settler and i wouldn't is so special so special special i should continue i should continue on that until that time we'll find someone better [Music] it's okay i wrote up some other things too and there have been certain those things too but it was much more personal whatever and i i went to the bubble to the skin told me we have no one better that was made of it so i was actually doing that okay so he hit us before the hassan when he went together with my color i wrote the rebel that i want to go to learning halo and i understood because i don't know where they officially would even taken me because at that point was very strict because it was absolutely the secret the rebels visited the coil they already took only for one year not for two years and they took only someone who were really real shameless during him and i wasn't because of what i was doing but i wrote that i want to to learn half a day i would continue what i'm doing as well but at least half a day i've only i've only learned in cable and i don't care about pay me officially not officially i didn't care whatever and i wanted i'd rather told me no the rabbit told me that i should work full time what with this and uh and i would just just have just received whatever so i continued i continued working in free prof for a few years after i got married doing doing the exactly the same doing doing british meals but then it came a time but they did not let for the period of time few years again we closed the borders and we didn't let anybody go out so it was not that that many breeze meal is to do to arrange so okay so and i and and they also happened but they didn't three had very difficult financial situation because it was changed and a new mayor came in and they took away all the programs which we had we know that they know he probably heard about that and so we didn't pay for whatever for many months they didn't get paid and already had two children and i just couldn't have gone like that so i yeah so i wanted to go on schlieffer's but he didn't work out for different reasons ever a few times even shooting the road considered moving to vivas from germany he lived in germany and he considered them moving with us and my my wife was one only daughter and so so it was also was [Music] in poland before the war and then after the war he ended up in he survived the war and he ended up he was not before the puts in shanghai in china he went he went through difficult times and who for the war and but he ended up in the dp camps together with all the russians see them after the war that's where he met that's where he met my mother-in-law show him that's where they got married in parking and who is she she she was she she was a niece from zamasu her mother all right so her last name last name was cerebronsky no what her last name was what was what was gorgeous okay yes um okay but different yeah yeah yeah yeah she on her own from from her father's side she was uh also from a very hostile family whatever she's she was personally my my uh her father was the second cousin of the blame i'm sure she was a tough cousin right right okay okay yeah yeah okay and i'm salmon we've had a wonderful wonderful interview with many details and this is the oil on board it's eternal the emma's you know um and that's why that's why i moved actually to new jersey because i felt i once i still i already became a computer programmer because i needed some pronouns i had just whatever and but i still wanted to be involved to help something so i moved there to hell to to help a little to rabbi kanelski that's why i moved i moved first to elizabeth and i kind of was here i was visiting families very sharp sunday i was other people also wanted to move here where the rubber never agreed people should move out of granite but i i got i got a brother yes so i moved there but we lived there for a couple years two three years but it was too hard to for my wife and children to travel every day to morristown to hayden right okay it was it was too hard so eventually we moved we moved to morristown because of that we moved actually to morristown and i didn't know it's done what i could do and do more sound but but we moved to norway but you also lived in randall for a while the randolph no that's that's why i'll move to render too because we wanted some help there when the shabbat which was there whatever so we wanted to move to randall for a number of years but then became someone more permanent with son-in-law before of uh tillerson before he so he got it permanent kind of became a slay of theirs so we will move back to morristown because the children should have more friends and um if there's something more to say we'll do it another time and yeah my five cents regards thank you bye