Kuntres Klolei HaChinuch 1898 #3 - Difference between Talents with physical or spiritual results

one hello have no fear obvi have no fear you didn't lose much yesterday we only learned one paragraph because we we did have a great discussion and i urge you to hear the uh where he says the only true fear is uracil romamus all the others are just gateways to so that we can have that true fear no i have no fear okay and uh i look forward one day to learning from you what that true fear is okay so paige i'm sorry page 21 paragraph three in paragraph one the writer basically told us the previous thread but the author told us how difficult but important it is on the part of the educator the guide and the parent i'm adding the word parent he doesn't say parent to prepare themselves with responsibility hard work and much effort to uh to assess the student and the second paragraph there ever added that every activity yes motion i'm sorry forgive me forever i want to ask this question now before we get started there's two there's two things that came up in my um about this yesterday i wanted to ask about number one is this this the whole concept of this country seems strikingly similar in concept to the safer by the ish kodish called him it's actually it's based on the exact same passage um i'm just curious if i'd be very curious to know if there was any contact there's no question there's no question in my mind that they knew each other because they both lived in poland and they lived there from 1933 till you know until the holocaust so that's seven solid years um but i will i will i haven't investigated this and now i'll i'll try to ask but i i i i feel for sure that they knew each other um we do know that to say for every satan of the shiatsu kaidish um i believe uses um ideas from tanya am i wrong does does he not cite tanya it could be yeah yeah yeah i'm learning it now it's yes there's a lot of time a lot of a lot of time emotion and and moshe as a god by your kodish i think uh it's time to learn a little bit safer but anyway yeah just just a little jab anyway um the other question i have though is is that um i know there's a safer that was written by rabbi khadukov on education for for an educate maybe it's for an inch i have it at home in the english translation i have it as well okay i'm just curious was there any overlap also i i i again i i would have to take a good look at it mr shrimp shabbos i'm trying to do that if i remember and i would think i mean he worked for the frida kareva i mean you know i 100 that again you know but to tell you specifically i do know i have a friend professor um uh that don seaman of emory university in atlanta is showing shabbos and he's a genius he's very bright he's a harvard graduate and he i know has studied picietia and um i'm going to ask him the question that you asked it it might have an interesting answer to that question i it could be academics have actually made some study of it i'll look into it let's go thank you for that okay so now in the second paragraph on 21 that ever talks about any activity any action you any of a person he says begins first in a spiritual state within the man then from there it goes to the physical you know we we've discussed this it's a shallow by the way it's the shallow kaddish he writes already in his safer and it's even from earlier but he writes that everything in gas means has a source of well the previous level without citing the shadow because hasidis embellishes that idea heavily and says that every gosmius begins in a spiritual space within man so that ebba says therefore if you want to succeed with an action you want your child to be up behave better you want your student to study better it requires a a preparation on your part and what is that preparation one of the preparations he says is assessing your talents and we spoke a lot about this yesterday i'm not going to repeat but a person needs to really and you understand made an excellent point you know you need to really hone in on what your talents are and what your talents are not not everyone is trying to be a teacher i mean everyone is trying to be a parent but not everyone's trying to be the best parent they just don't have the skills for whatever reason so it's important to know your talents and what i said yesterday just to add is part of knowing your talents is know what what aren't your talents and to delegate to others even if it means outside of yourself and your wife who have that talent in that area to help you in that situation with your with your child with your student etc so that was paragraph number two now let's go to paragraph number three so that ever right away says the talent every talent that we have whatever the talent is it's a matana it's a gift from hashem from god yes there are some people that are endowed by god with a talent for singing others with a talent um i'm sorry bushido is part of the first the first talent singing zimbra another type of singing all kinds of singing number two yes summer i went into my first second yeah thank you i know that but i'm not sure that's what he means here but it could be yes i i know that i didn't translate it that way because hey the english doesn't translate it that way and i'm not sure that's what he means but i guess it could mean that too thank you number two yes mahunan some are endowed with the talent of oratory and rhetoric there are some people that have a great hush a great talent in going into a room and use rhetoric to fire up a crowd they might not know too much but they're gifted in the gift of the gab with with rhetoric and they can get it done others are great or raiders they really have what to say and they know how to say it properly so that's called the talent for speaking for oratory and rhetoric number three yes there are those that are talented for instruction and there are those that are talented are graced by hashem with educating okay similar beside the shrineness for many other talents so what do you see clearly that the rabbit divides two types of talents the last two one is called the instruction the talent of instruction the word torah is associated with the word and there are others that are gifted with the talent of which is the name of this contrast of this essay which is educating and guidance so right here the rep is is is alluding to what he's going to go into in the next chapter the difference between an educator and an instructor and i'm not going to tell you what that is i'll leave you in suspense till the next chapter but we do see that he rarely lays the groundwork right here for the difference i'm not however of men are so powers that are spiritual as we discussed in paragraph two the coulomb all are limbs that the essence of the soul mispass it behind expands itself into these limbs to enliven them to each limb according to its content to give that aver the power of the always and the might lift to do its job so the i gets a kayak from the nephesh from the soul to see the ear to hear the mouth to speak the nose the smell etc it all comes from one core essence but when it expands itself it goes into individualized klim receptacles vessels i.e parts of the body let's continue inside and although although the essence of the soul is a a spiritual essence that in its state of essence avi does not discern between one's talent and another talent in other words from the perspective and the way the talents are in the soul it's one wholesome nephew soul not it's a it's a a seeing soul a hearing soul a speaking soul and a smelling soul totally not it's one soul it's one nephesh so this is a rhetorical question the imhaze amios is rhetorical although in the in the in the way these talents are in their essence there is no dis discernment between one talent and the other the whole said nevertheless this is the the retort to the rhetorical question it is mandatory it is absolutely necessary for the talents to divide the female hosts based on what they are their essence and what they want to accomplish in the world and in other words and this is an important point and we see this there are people that in in essence they have a talent in a certain area but unless that talent is given away by the person to express itself it can remain dormant in the person and never express itself and and and you see this all the time many talented people in many areas live a life of 70 80 120 years and did not express their talent for whatever reason whether they weren't given an opportunity whether they weren't taught how to develop a talent or whether they're self-destructive so the rapper says in this paragraph that you need that num you must know that in xm in essence the talents are all one in the essential essence of the soul they only become different when they expand themselves but when they expand themselves it's the essence that makes the expansion so in other words the two work together and they're inseparable that's the point so for example a person who takes a talent that he has and uses the talent in a way that's contrary to the way the talent is in his essence will fail or the or or the talent will be short-lived or the talent won't be received well why because the person went off on a tangent and the person because of his own schtick trip and ego took the talent and separated the talent from its essence inserting his own self his own ego and there the town will fail because the talent is at is always successful when it's inseparable from the essence hillary does this side what i just said now it doesn't does it bring to mind anything in your in your in your study in your in your work and and in psychology et cetera um well uh it springs to mind a lot because talent is uh you know uh uh is such a um is such a personal uh expression so uh so requires such contemplation to nurture and um so easy to kind of um discourage in people artistic expression musical expression uh academic expression i mean my i have a grandson now who's whose idea of a good time is you know is is writing computer code it's like such a unique talent um and it's i'm so mindful that that uh um for me these those kinds of things were so uh so discouraged by the way i was the kind of education i had and so things that in my adult life have been particularly interesting to me as especially in the realm of science and math you know but they were kind of ruined for me because of my personal education writing was sort of wrote and right right performance right so i'm i'm with you yeah i do have to have a three o'clock appointment okay so okay i just want to just say for now the way my schedule is i just i want to apologize but clowl because i may have to do that fairly often and and so i i i appreciate being here and i don't want to disrupt anybody so but i'm glad you were you uh right so reached out to me at this moment okay great okay take care so back to the text and we see just before the text we see having a think back to yourself to your younger years when for whatever reason hilo you know alluded to some of that now you weren't given a chance for whatever reason whether you were overwhelmed with this or that and you didn't get a chance to express your talent and then as you get older maybe time freeze up a little more and you know and you start expressing your talent you'll be so much happier happier the happiness comes with the ability to express your true self which is expressed in the talent that you that hashem has endowed every person and every person has a talent you understand because the talents you only have have details let's say singing right there's operatic singing there's hasidic singing there's jazz singing there's rock and roll singing there is uh you know the beat the latest thing is the beats the beat type of sinking there's all kinds of singing so there's all there isn't just one singing we put it under one umbrella singing right so this this is like we're saying now in the sphere all the one details in the detail the same is true here and when you find the chord that strikes you you're going to be very happy so let's say he's an artist right within art there's this type of drawing that type of drawing did you know and and and it takes a while and it's an ongoing process where certain things make you happier and i see it in my writing there's certain things that i write and not so i'm not you know i do it because it needs to be done but then there are times when i write about something that really you know i'm interested in it's a whole different quality of writing it you know it's an elation an elation that's what that was talking about here yaakov that was talking about finding that aspect in yourself that brings you elation and it's very very important and we could do it because hashem hasn't doubted endowed us with it now it's a matter of finding what that is also one should not go off on the high horse and forget everything else and everyone else because of his talent that's also not normal and that has bad results so on one hand you need to find your talent cherish your talent and integrate it into the non-talented world and that's a that's a hush that is a talent itself because if you have a great talent and it causes you to um to negate every situation or anyone else that doesn't have that talent you're going to be a loner and ultimately you're not going to be happy because the rambam already says that we're social beings we need people okay and those few exceptions that don't need people are exceptions to a rule but everyone even and i want to tell you even loners they love to have a conversation once in a blue moon with a person okay there's no one that wants to sit and look at a wall and talk to a wall and if he and if he or she does they're not well never you know a person must to someone else azulas and qasidas you understand we have the word in the maimarum of if you remember from azullah's azulas is translated as a partner as a friend and also as an other azula says anything outside of yourself and when a person has a zulus they really thrive and it's not only because they have someone that they can convince to the way they think absolutely not that's ego it's that man is healthiest when he communicates his talent or who he is to another that's the way hashem created mankind yes yaakov i wanted to share with you a quote that i that was made aware to me uh recently from the piazza and i put it on on our chat and the piano says the human soul relishes sensation not only a pleasant feeling but simply the very experience of stimulation even if that sensation comes from depression or crying one who is clever will fulfill this need with passionate prayer and elimination the soul whose divine services without passionate feeling will have to find its stimulation elsewhere it will either be driven to to achieve even forbidden sensation or will become emotionally ill from lack of stimulation beautiful so we see yeah and he really brings out amazing that i remember hearing this from uh one of the touristies that a person craves this enthusiasm and and passion and when we infuse our authority with that a person you know doesn't realize you know most adult is uh hung up on sports for their enthusiasm that's their outlet uh you know we have our own you know a passionate prayer passionate learning and and that's how we make it that's how we survive right right yeah i'm deceiving laughing is uh right so so so before you got on moshe asked if there's any similarities between the ace the the siesta's teachings and the what we're learning here moshe here you have an example that's that sounds very similar i i mean you know so it's uh you know who got it from who i don't know i think they both came to it themselves being very big sadiq and minds and and and students of the haversteer you know but um that's thank you very much fascinating fascinating what you just read okay next paragraph last paragraph in 21 [Music] the the talents that are divided they're divided generally into schneizel two categories aleph one talents that effect that have physical effects come on kiss you not see or the tissue in the talon to draw um next page and the activity to play machetes instruments no sorry sorry that's the next one um to play a sort of type of yeah to play no no no no no and to weave to weave this he's translating as weaving we're on top and now the next page 23. the talent has zimbra playing instruments so you're innocent you were right in the way you translated very good there's playing caleb showing him different instruments okay diamond similar so all of these he classifies as group a known as physical effects talents that have a physical effect number two yay base kiss talents that have a spiritual effect for example the talent of oratory talent and rhetoric talent to awaken to arouse or the word that the yeti used that yaakov quoted to stimulate a listening audience to get them to move to get them to excited to get them to think next is kisroy halimod a talent for educating and counseling he touches here um i'm sorry teaching and instructing let's take that back is teaching and instructing and and finally of educating and counseling and so forth and again that will be explained i believe in the next chapter um in a way he's like repeating himself button with different words and again the words are very very uh unconventional for hasidis not just but you will not find this diaper writing in in any hasidis this this the wording in hebrew the his how the division is a general sukim koala it's a general categorial um difference it is that that's due to its result orientation we in other words the this group of talents seeks a result so when you're when you're when the objective of the talent is the result it's a different type it's a certain type of group of category so so let's take dr drawing art that maybe moshe could talk about it more if you'd like but it would seem like there's one type of art that the objective is the result let me talk about it in my in my world in writing there's no question that i have an editor he's actually in pittsburgh so he's editing he's been editing some of my books he's editing about something i'm writing now a book on gimel thomas on the rebel hashem i hope to have a new book on the rebel right now he edits it in one way when he sends it back to me there's things that i change because i know what result i want and i believe i know my target audience he is an editor he's doing his job with smart he's you know does it is it written well nothing's flowing and all that and i might make a change and i do make a change to certain things because i'm i know that i'm looking for a certain target audience who needs to hear something in this way or that way so in a way i am fulfilling what it says here it's a talent that's based on me outside of the way it maybe it should be in its authenticity which is well written flowing regardless if it talks to the person reading it he doesn't have that agenda right avi his agenda is well written english that's it you will sell the book you won't sell the book you will stimulate a person you won't stink you want to read more and learn the rabbis torah more or not whatever whatever whatever my my agendas are right every writer has an agenda and every artist has an agenda if they don't it's about time to get an agenda because it's important it's important you know you you we mentioned before the picture of the rebel with wearing a strimmer in in in hendel's writing there's a lot of darkness a lot of it was done in pencil he had a very very hard life the nazis maximum killed his wife and all his children he wasn't he was in the in great depression and then mila through family and others he was take pulled out of that depression and the rabbit contributed to his last 25 years on earth and probably one of the happiest times of his life but you notice in his writing a darkness a morbidity because he lived it never so there are you know on one hand now if he stopped and thought wait a minute are people able to hand or let's talk about um uh yoni um tom your wife's grandfather's famous picture of the previous rebel it's very black very dark i saw the picture yeah why he drew it after the rebel the previous never passed away and he was i'm not saying he was depressed it's in my mother-in-law's house in the usa okay he was very sad very very sad for him he lost his rubber and he's an artist and he expressed himself he didn't care whether it sells or it doesn't sell or whether someone's going to say hey why don't you make the picture with a great smile no he's expressing his inner feelings so let's go back to the text so that says line two of the of that paragraph this division is due to treesis which means uh it's delineated by the way talents are expressed within their resultant action and it manifests itself in the differences that we mentioned before the categorial differences many repeats you can't compare at all the the the talent as expressed in the activity in the physical activity you can't compare it with fisa to its expression of the talent is as it's in its state the spiritual state okay and just as there's a difference when the talent invests itself besought by olympia in the various different physical categories of kishanas here you can't compare the investment of the talent of drawing bipolar to the way the talent invests itself to singing and playing an instrument right an artist is not a guitarist and a guitarist is not an artist it's two different categories and areas of talent in a cane who so too the category of of of talents that we classified remember guys in the in in the class in in the second uh category right in the beginning of this last paragraph we said this olive and base physical talents and spiritual so he says you can't compare the physical talents to the spiritual talents which are education and instruction to the how it's different than the effects of teaching and instructing he he's setting this up because he's going to talk about the next chapter but just briefly saying not every good student is a good teacher put it very simply there is a talent to being a teacher we call that and the name of this essay and that's different unison then limut and hyrule libun in hyrule is one area of torah of education but it is not comparable just like you can't compare spiritual talents to physical talents you cannot compare teaching and education to learning and and knowledge so right here that in his brief words lays the groundwork for the upcoming chapter to explain the difference between the two and what he's telling the educators at times in 1898 and of course every one of us is that you must really assess yourself and know if you really have the talent in this area or can you develop a talent in this area that really is deep in your recesses of the heart and you will reveal it and not everyone can and in a way not everyone should and that's why when in the 1940s after the during and after the holocaust when they put people needed jobs and they became the talmud torah teachers in philadelphia in new york in chicago all over and they weren't seymour shabbos and they weren't really teachers everyone knows the disaster that they created an entire generation was lost to yiddish kite and bar hashem is coming back but was lost because of these teachers which weren't really teachers they needed a job and the previous rapper the same author has letters scolding and it's you know some people said how could the previous level was such a loving yid speak this way because it was an outrage it was such an outrage and i'm talking about here in borough park yani on the corner of 13th avenue and 50th street when i moved here in 1970 we had a very the entire block maybe maybe avi remembers if he ever visited here it was a yeshiva called eight skyline they knocked it down i think in 1980 82. it started in 1905 or so the entire block was a big heart house and property from the old days and they they bought it and they made it the yeshiva aids cayenne i think maybe alan dershowitz went there and others went there you know and they introduced zionism it was now they need rebbies they need teachers it's holocaust time post holocaust anyone that can read hebrew come teach really really and so we had us around the country and the frida kareba took a very strong stance he wrote about it he spoke about it he called it treyf talmatorus which is very unusual talmud torres because the teachers were tafe they weren't keeping question and they're teaching kids about shabbos and gosh the hypocrisy and then we it spilled over into the orthodox world where you had teachers that didn't belong as teachers and guess what you still have some of that today if you don't have the patience and you use and to teach you don't belong in the classroom because you're not going to have 10 to 20 children or teenagers that and listening and saying yes yes teacher yes rebbe yes borah it's not happening you know we're all natural we like you know so you need and again i can't emphasize enough the importance how we have to cherish teachers not enough of that is in our own communities you know because they you know need the recognition and to find good teachers is very difficult but when you find good teachers pay them more than anyone else and keep them and make them happy because they're the future of your children our children and the future children okay enough for the russia everyone have a great day we'll see everyone tomorrow bye bye thank you good grades every one of us should have only good health ourselves our family and mashiach now bye-bye