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Klolei HaChinuch 1898 #4 - Difference between Educator and Teacher
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okay come here let's go let's go
pedic base we're starting our motion
painted base 23.
so now he says what are the clean
what are the principles of education and
and guidance
at first glance
the field of education and guidance
detainers
the field of teaching
seemed to be quite similar
why
because both are one
category which which are kishore noise
talents that
impact the spiritual
side of man so therefore
you would seem to you would want to
group them together
says but in truth
they are entirely different next page
24.
let's see how
he avoid educating
and guiding generally speaking
is a very difficult task for avoiding
the
fader is a very uh
treacherous heavy track task
more you set
[Music]
the task of a teacher teaching students
although
although teaching also was one of the
most difficult
activities because nevertheless
ain't hakushi klau its difficulty
is has no comparison kim
like the difficulty of the tasks
of educating and guidance with nationai
timing
i'll give you two reasons why it's a
vast difference
one well when it comes to
instruction
the primary involvement of the
instructor
is what is it
it consists of intellectual ideas
aleph the virus the teacher
the teacher's task is to explain the
idea
um to explain it
to the student being show him
with parables and illustrations
number two the teacher's task is
it is to to open
to develop the
to develop the students abilities
by by um
conceiving ideas creativity
base by havanas hamas border
through explaining the parable
and and its explanation gimbal number
three
the dia museve subrudo by
with a settled you know knowledge
clear i'll cope on him
what we have from this is
that the task of a teacher bahirosa
through his instruction
he ah it is only only
being regarding
in logic and information
because even the the the smallest
and uh and easiest idea
he name is still
part of the category of intellect
there's deep
intellect and there's shallow intellect
but intellect at the end of the day's
intellect
this
correct correct i saw that right i was
going to get to that
i just want to first continue and the
comparison
so this all he says is a teacher
instruction came by
no comparison is the task of education
and guidance
the primary involvement job
of the educator and the guide
the mentor who being
a nebucha
it is primarily
consists of transforming base
and ignoble traits not nice traits
disgusting traits
it's not about teaching knowledge
it's about teaching him a method
of ridding himself of bad ugly traits
uber frat more specifically
the initial idea of education and
guidance
the ayurveda ordinary he quotes the
verse
man is born like a wild young donkey
victivious or regelius bahamias
with animalistic impulses and behavior
that is natural tibiate natural to him
drawing drawing man after material good
model and drawing him to what's usually
visually attractive and it is the job of
the
mechanic the educator and the mentor
guide
to show him
how to remove himself from these
ugly character traits
and now he goes back to he's going back
and forth in his comp
and showing the difference between the
two next paragraph
avoid this the
task of the teacher
in in in in is in instructing
through teaching
although like i said that ever says
it's there's much responsibility for a
teacher to teach
to explain to clarify
jonas made it very nice and clear
to teach him how to be creative not just
be
a puppet uh a parakeet they're repeating
things
can you come up with an idea yourself
creativity analysis
das concentration and that's all the job
of the teacher the teacher is
responsible he says
is responsible to show a student
to teach a student how to develop those
talents
aval back to the text aval however
it is not at all comparable to the
responsibility
of a educator and a mentor and a guide
i don't believe why because when it
comes to
instruction through teaching
even if it's what it doesn't have
an impact right
how do y'all go upon him or your cow
kill one thing's for sure
you didn't ruin the student the student
came in
not knowing how to be creative
you tried teaching him how to be
creative it didn't work you didn't get
it
he didn't get it okay
he's the same he's the same person you
didn't make him any worse
like kane conversely
when it comes to educating and guidance
eight the responsibility maisha
is tremendous the main name is sakin
if you don't correct the student in the
areas
of these flaws that he has
he's going to get worse so
you only by by you not succeeding as an
educator
and as a guide mentor it's not only that
he'll be the same that he came in
it's going to get worse because we want
more indulgences
and more indulgences and you get more
good up and more course
and and and it's a fact of life so the
responsibility that ever says
of the mechanic and the and and the and
the
guide mentor is much greater
here there's no room for okay he didn't
succeed he'll be the same
he'll be without the knowledge he won't
have creativity he have develop he'll
have analysis
you know i'm saying okay he's a he'll
have analysis he won't be creative
but you know he's basically the same
mensch
here he becomes less of a mensch
therefore
[Music]
whether it be someone who's old in years
whether he's young in years
it's necessary absolutely necessary
next page top of 27.
he must watch and guard
uh the rules that are necessary
to help the student
rid himself or herself of these
ugly character traits i should be loaded
without them elizabeth
and if the teacher if the guide and
mentor
an educator doesn't do that he said he
repeats again
not only shilla you sucking not only
is did he not correct the situation in
the student
older or younger and urgent council
he actually ruined him
that's a very very heavy statement but
it ever says that
so the rebbe here makes it very very
clear that we have a
very very big difference between
a teacher and an educator
now you know we we lump both both of
these words together and our
vocabulary and our way we think and all
that
but in the countries that ebb says if
you stop and think
and you analyze the two it's as we say
in hebrew
it's as distant from the east to the
west
because one has the responsibility to
teach
knowledge and one has the responsibility
to educate and guide in
behavior so really you're talking about
two
type not really you're we're talking
about two
different methods
that are required here and that's why
there could be listen to this there can
be an excellent teacher
and think about your teachers in school
and university and
shiorim one teacher can be gavaldic
in teaching clarity explanation
but he doesn't teach you how to get rid
of those
[ __ ] the the the issues that
are are not good for character
and behavior manchester kite
meters royce what we call musser
right and the rabbit says the rebbe says
that only a an educator and a guide
is charged not only
it is for to to accomplish this
you need an educated guide in hasidis
what do we call this inhabited
that's the job of mashpea today
fortunately unfortunately we've lumped
together
and i i'm on a campaign and i haven't
succeeded yet but i won't give up
that every chabad community every jewish
community
needs a mashpia outside of a rabbi
a rav a rabbi is a roof
that's his job now if he functions
as if the rabbi functions as a mashipia
and he has someone else to be to pass
into shiloh so be it
but what i'm saying is that a community
and in in a yeshiva world too what i see
in the yeshiva world
is they have great rabbis great teachers
and very few muskie or in the lit fisher
world they call them
madrid
you have i'm not saying but not enough
way way in other words there's so much
emphasis
on the on the idea the knowledge
and there's so much less emphasis on the
hashbow
you can have one much gear for a hundred
boys
and you can have ten magi describe for a
hundred boys or five magidish euro
and what the rep is saying here really
if
you extract it and you bring it into the
real world he's saying
really you should have more
and the truth is that's why in his
system
in the rashad there are yachts
educational system of chabad yeshiva
that's the way he made his yeshiva in
and this is written for them right this
is what he's saying and this is what
they followed
do you know that when they opened the
yeshiva they didn't have a
of shiva i mean you go tell slobodka
that
or volajin or mir or kletsk
or lakewood i mean the the they laugh at
you
what do you mean you don't have a
russian
18 18 18 year olds to 20 year olds who
already were
full of tata you know whether he knows
this this shot of that shot that wasn't
the issue
but the character is you have yes and
ego
and ugliness and his refinement and all
that oh
so the rap shop said i'm appointing too
much beer
he doesn't even talk about it russia
shiva could you imagine
a a person opens a yeshiva at the height
of our scholar enlightenment with
everything else that's going on
no russia shiva because
he's saying we at that time at that time
the main thing is the character and how
they're going to be strong enough
to fight a way to fight off
enlightenment tuscola
and secular zionism etc right so that's
what he does now even later as the
chabad yeshivas
continued in russia and ukraine and then
later in their destroy and in america
etc and they're all over
where they already incorporated the
russia
the mainstay and this i i could see the
literature world really having an issue
with
was the masb till today till today
are like the main attraction to a
yeshiva
let me let me say for the record it
should be clear
we have some excellent rashi yeshiva
big talmud and some are like for example
los
angeles i learned by rabbi when i was a
a 20 year old
we were sent 10 of us from morristown
the rabbinical college of marist on the
yeshiva to los angeles
los angeles has older bachelor
he's a talmud of lakewood a talmud of
brisk you know
and he's in a barbecue so but but his mo
you know he's a
going to cup and he was a real rusher
shiva i mean he gave shirum
for two three hours sometimes i mean it
was amazing
we just had a group um 40-year um
zoom and i spoke about that i said they
asked everyone what's your main thing
you remember for those two years
is spending in los angeles i said to me
i i'm
to see this man in action was a life
lesson for me
because i came from you know from chabad
here in crown heights
with a
in morristown they were my main reason
for you know for growth and
and attract an attraction and of course
the rebbe and khasid
and here i mean we had russia shiva and
they
but this was a he's an exception so it
was very interesting
at age 20 you know you're not a child
anymore to take a look at a person like
that i mean
i remember um from time
every six months or a year we would
publish
a journal of of pilpulum scholarly
dissertations on
on commuter topics and he was in charge
in fact the rabbit told him years before
in yeshida's to do that and because of
that
he was blessed with twins it's a whole
story he didn't have
children he didn't he had but he only
didn't have for many years
and that ever told him to write
so he did and right away he had a twins
so that's another thing anyway
so i saw him in the library in los
angeles
sometimes three two three in the morning
i was up then two
and no one else was up was sleeping he
was in there with sverim
piled up and his head was buried before
he had to produce
the clevitz the journal of you know so
so a fascinating talmud nevertheless
nevertheless to us coming from where we
came from
to come to us where we came from
he he was he wasn't he wasn't
compared to yo khan i
he took second place because
that was the way the khabar system
from 1897 developed itself and i'm not
i'm not going now into it's better it's
worse i'm just
telling you on the kuda so that's we do
have big
shiva in habad but the mash pia
is the eater and why and why because of
what we're learning right here what we
just learned
what does it have to say here hilo what
does it have to say
he says here that it's it's more you
can't compare
the teacher of information
even the best of teachers to the
mechanic and the madrid
the educator and the guide who's dealing
with getting rid of what he calls let's
look at the language
nebu the cure ugliness
and you know bad character
and that remained a a mainstay
and this opens up for us an entire
other issue to think about
and that is that that is why
in the chabad yeshiva system from that
time
until today the emphasis the emphasis
is is more on the avoider
than the learning although there's a lot
of learning we lo the
rashob set up to learn seven hours a day
gemura
and three hours a day hasidis and in
lubavitch i heard from rebel ramayana
who was a student there was passed on of
course
he told me they would learn from 12
o'clock in the afternoon
till 7 o'clock tomorrow okay that's
seven
hours and he said that the the good
students
would try not to go to the bathroom to
take a break in those seven hours
that's how committed they were to
learning the gemara so if anyone tells
you
that in lebanon they don't emphasize
gemura it's a lie
simply not true nevertheless
what is the echo of the learning is the
avoider
is the refinement of character okay now
what do you guys say about this
the question every question about that
so i i'm trying to understand something
why why would anyone lick fish
against avodah what we learn we're
supposed to put into practice
why would anyone be against that i don't
i'm just trying to understand
okay okay so i would take the word
against out it's not against
but the question is youni what is the
icar of a yeshiva curriculum
so for example i'll answer your question
with with a historical fact
do you know that in the literature
yeshivas in various ones
there were very big disagreements about
learning musser as part of the
curriculum
and this issue was so uh
was such a hot a hot cake
that there were fights and and and
yeshiva is closed
temporarily because of it i documented a
lot of this in my books you know and and
the literature yeshivas don't like to
talk about it because it's
it's a red flag but that's the facts
because they felt not understand what
they felt
let's end up high in brisker you know
you're talking about or abort bear
label with the comments okay they were
against
having formal musser in the yeshiva
why they said for that you do
outside of the curriculum on your free
time instead of reading
books in the library secular books read
musa
learn muslim the other school of thought
of slav
finkel you know the great grandfather of
today's russia shiva
he said everyone must learn muslim he
says muslims the mainstay of the yeshiva
and this was such a macho kiss you can't
imagine
what this caused in europe in the
lithuanian yeshivas
so it's not the only that they're
against avodah the question is
if avoiders should take to take away
from the time of learning gomorrah
and most yeshivas
felt it should not our rather
he had this ongoing um
push more with the kassidisher rabbis
because they didn't come to see him and
they didn't kind of listen to him at all
anyway
um you know outwardly at least but the
siddhis let's say told the siren
1963 he comes to see the rebel and crown
heights for mayor sharon
and the rabbit speaks them about
teaching
hasidis and rabbit says you don't have
to teach
this you're not yeshiva but more of a
shamish
was it which is clearly what you should
make it part of the curriculum
and the rapper did this with the belzer
reb i think in 1981
and with the gary rabbit and and you
know and then and they even you know
between themselves and others they had
their comments some positives are
negative
but the point is that ebbing was
relentless this was his number one thing
with the rebels was why
don't you institute the study of hasidis
of your
cities you and you
see this but see there should be a
regular part of the curriculum
and it wasn't in their yeshiva so not
only wasn't it in
in literature she
so what i mean to say part of the
curriculum the way it's in khabari only
is
7 30 in the morning we came into the
yeshiva till 9 o'clock
we all had the same for him and we
learned the same text like we're doing
now
and then twice or three times a week we
had a share by the mashfield gave us
year in it
and then we reviewed this year and then
we asked questions
like you learned of the mother russian
crisis and you went on the stamp shot
and that's what the rashad wanted that
ashab wanted
that the study of hasidah should be and
i'm talking about now the study
i'm not talking about i'm talking about
the study should be on par to nigla to
talmud
then there's the idea of ashbo
in in in the bad world it's called
hashpond world
in the literature was called there
you see what the what their previous
labor writes here he says
this is a mainstay now let's again let's
go historically and see
how it makes sense because here he is
talking to these two must be him
he has students who are big have great
knowledge of of gamora
and
they don't know as much as and as far as
their character
uh they feel so big about themselves
yeshua's oh i know so much you know
they tell over of a great uh hussein who
became later
and he was a buckingham elijah
his son is a friend of mine is a rabbi
in toronto
and he came from a literature yeshiva to
lubavitch in the early 1900s
and he came in with uh you know a lot of
knowledge
you know but he had yes he had ego
so when it came time to bake matas for
pesach
the reber ashab him the job or maybe the
previous rebel
gave him the job of like rolling the
pins where he worked up
a big sweat and
and and he came and he said like this is
too much for me in other words he's used
to using his mind and learning
and he's physically rolling pins for
mats and he's sweating away
and then asha and ashab said
this is what you need to break your yes
and and it worked that that
it worked so what do we see here is this
genius who knows shas
but he's coming he's using yes he's
using guyva
ego so that ashab found a way
of dealing with it so you see again how
this was a mainstay in the yeshiva
and that's what the and that's what the
future could have been saying over here
that the an educator
a mechanic and a madrid and a guide
are a very different animal than
a teacher both are necessary
but he says if you start putting putting
them together and mixing up the roles
you're going to have a disaster and as
he says
if a person doesn't have information
no he'll have a little less information
but if you don't correct the student's
behavior and meet us it just gets worse
and worse
any final questions or from anybody or
we
are done okay yes i i just wanted to
sort of comment on this from wearing my
other hat
you know the in in neuroscience today
one of the one of the key sort of themes
is that the human nervous system
develops really in relationships that
uh it's our primary relationships that
that
that form our nervous system and our our
brains
don't really develop when we're when
we're denied
kind of the essential relationships
early in life they don't develop in the
same way
so it seems like a similar kind of theme
here comparing
comparing a mashmiya to a to a to a
teacher
i mean we all had those kinds of
teachers who
who you know all they care about is
communicating certain kind of
information
uh and they don't care you have to if
you want it you've got to work for it
from those who really set out to make a
connection with you
as a learner those are the ones who stay
with you right
i hear very good yes motion i just want
to make
make a point that um today
you know in yeshivas you also have a
masjid
it's interesting you have a mashpira
what time you came if you came late
we're talking in in the literature world
i believe i i mean you know
maybe i think much i know here rabbi
wolfson of of tauravidas
was the masjid in other words he gave
the the the the the the muslim the
rookney is
tomorrow is a very different schedule
it's uh yamato
is here so i'm probably not going to be
around in the afternoon i'm not sure my
schedule but i'm going to be uh
okay everyone should be in my sleep okay
we will continue learning to see this
and uh that will be our
my participation in yeoman
so please make sure hillel wherever you
are grab her
and tell him to stay here already
bye bye have a good day take care good
boy oh by the way
today is the khatrilla river today is
the rebel marash's yoma letter since the
whole message of
over the top over the top
take care