Chabad & Yeshiva University: Rabbi Chaim Dalfin & Dr. Eli Rachlin, Book Talk, 2/2/25

go ahead right good afternoon uh everybody thanks uh so much for coming I know you're wondering what I'm doing up here and who whom who am I um so um I wanted to I was the uh editor of this book and worked on uh with her Dophin I just wanted to introduce her doin um and um by way of introduction speak a little bit about my involvement with the book because that speaks to a little bit about what the book um what what people can gain from in this book and uh and also who Rabbi dolphin is um also I just want to proceed my words by saying that uh recently um I lost a very close friend uh by the name of David aimi um dby been um Ben schmuel um and so uh uh to the extent that uh any of my words today not not Rob Alin is going to be doing most to speak but the extent that any my words today uh help bring uh K stroll together and uh um are useful that should be nishas um so um as you can probably tell I don't really look like a kabik um and um uh a number of years ago uh there was someone in my family who was greatly uh affected and impacted by kabad so although I had no real um no real uh connection to kabad um I decided that maybe um it'd be useful if I just started seeing a little bit about what kabad really was not really for me but more from an academic perspective and maybe could say therapeutic perspective because perhaps if I could share some of that um uh with this person who was in my inner circle it could be useful um and as I started uh doing that I started learning a little bit of Tanya um on a daily basis um and um I can mention by the way that there's a lot of great resources for learning Tanya at the time um what I use on k.org um I was uh listening to um sh Yeshua Gordon of less memory um and uh now actually uh RBI doin also by the way has uh on YouTube uh amazing uh lessons on Tanya but regardless um I start to get more deeply interested in kabad and um I know I had some some questions questions U that I kind of wanted answered by kabad Insider um someone who' be willing to speak very openly not Sugar Code give the real story give real interpretations and these are questions both about whether it was uh sociological questions questions about what Tanya meant questions about how certain Concepts were really in in uh understood within the kabad community um and I kind of wanted the uh the real deal so I was looking for someone who I thought I might be able to approach um I heard of Rober dalin's name because years before I had bought a book a previous book of RAB dophins called Rob and re about Ric um the Rob and um and uh the reer um and their relationship um so I was thinking you know maybe he'd be a person to call uh but I wasn't certain and then I happened to uh come buy a book um also uh written by rebbi dolphin this book conversations with the rebba um and what this book was I thought at first might have been a couple hundred pages of conversations early D had with with the Reit that wasn't what the book is the book yeah exactly the book was actually um um interviews that R Dalin did with many leading Jewish personalities who had had conversations with the re interactions with the re and in this book robbi delin interviewed for example um uh robbi robbi uh Norman lamb um a blessed memory who help to build this great uh institution and um and in that interview um there were areas where um Rabbi lamb criticized kabad there were areas where Rabbi lamb expressed admiration for kabad it was a back and forth and I could see that there was a dialogue going on and that Rabbi Dalin was asking questions curious um about Lamb's point of view and and engaging in this extremely respectfully and then putting it in print um even when frankly as I said ra had some criticisms up about it's in there too it's in there too um Norman lamb k p Yak Shamir um right Abraham tski um a reform Rabbi who had had conversations with um with the rabbi and that's what this book really um was I think it's a I think frankly it' be nice if it was uh perhaps republished and I know by the way that uh uh since uh publishing this book among other great interviews delin has uh is um with the late um um rman rman shalomi who was a I don't know they even know who he is yeah who who founded the renewal movement and start as and he had a conversation um with him but regardless the point was I read this book and I said okay here's someone who's a real Insider in kabad who knows how to talk to people um and be respectful share his knowledge and has appreciation for people no matter what their point of view so I reached out to R and then he became uh for me someone who uh helped uh explain uh a lot of questions I had about kabad whether they were the really important things truly important things like what what what uh aspects of K philosophy and what the what Tanya meant and how kabad looks these things are where there was sociological questions about the kabad movement and things like that and I felt um and I knew that um as a researcher and historian on these things as well Rob Dophin um was really a a great resource and helped me um in my growth um so um sometime after that or as this is all happening um I offered uh to help doin F had any upcoming projects and had a manuscript um that he had been working on um on kabad and uh and yesi University and it doesn't attempt to be a complete history of everything between kabad and University what it is is this book traces a lot of a lot of the history of interactions between the two institutions of comparisons between the two institutions um above kabad and yes uh on one side and yesh University the on the other side and of course focuses quite a bit on the two main individuals who left their great a stamp on these institutions in the case of Y University it's the rav um Yash and of course in the case of Kad it's the uh seven blessing memory REM Mand scharon their interactions with each other um as well as their philosophies form a really core part of uh of this book so my involvement really was partly um and speaks to speaks to Rabbi dalphin and who he is um he had this manuscript and I I felt I could add something to it because some of the things that were in there I could um perhaps um add a little bit more and speak about it and and um eluate some of the points from a a more of a modern Orthodox uh perspective and sensitivity and I found that again and again um as I made these suggestions doin said was very open to he said you know what that's a great way to look at it may not have been exactly the way he looked at something or vice versa um and all of that found its way um into the book I just want to give one example of one story that's in there that really resonated with me um and then I'll uh hand it over of course to my Dophin um one story which is very interesting was uh many of us know uh that um your test um your K is a extremely important day on the kabad calendar um it's called ridus R for um foros um and that's a celebration of the day that um that the first reab um the alter rabadi was uh was um uh allowed out of prison I believe in 1798 I think um and uh and that is celebrated um that is celebrated every year partly because of the idea that as he was released out of prison that was a symbol that on in Shay that that the was that casus should continue to spread everywhere um what's not as well known is that that language of calling it rudus is not the way it was celebrated for many many years in fact I think it was in in um and this story is in the book in 1901 um the uh then laa um the rashab sent a letter to laich saying that this holiday Y which we've been celebrating for a very long time from now on should be known as Ros forid um and the letter was spread to many communities the problem was that when this letter reached the community of brisk where Rim salic was the town R it was already pass and um as a result the in brisk came up toic and they had a they had a problem they said we've already celebrated your but we didn't know that it was rash for that was declared to be R what should we do so turned to the and he said if that's true that means that you celebrated it with the wrong kavana you did a m without kav and what's amazing about this and really resonated with me is that there's no doubt ones life he didn't celebrate anything ones life um and the story and in in this book which traces a lot of the relationship between the solic uh as a family and um and kabad it's clear that r at that point had very little to do at all withus although he had some in this town yet here he was telling the that they had no choice but to celebrate slave again make another celebration the said well let's celebrate on on P you see that that year there were two adars and so when there's two adars the day on which PM would fall on the first Adar um should be is celebrated as perm we really don't celebrate it very much we don't say on that day um and perhaps it was also true I don't know but perhaps at that time on days they didn't say ton perhaps they didn't work I don't I I don't know precisely but they said let's uh they said maybe we should cele on that day and he issued another he said no because is a says you don't mix two two two special times and he said you're going to have to pick another day to celebrate your thisle and so they did now the story reson Ates with me as someone who although become much more attracted to kabad as modern Orthodox because I think one of the Hallmarks of modern Orthodoxy um is that it encourages people to seek spirituality from different um from different Realms different Realms obviously within Torah Judaism so it's not at all uncommon for someone who's modern Orthodox for example to learn doomi with a uh with a teacher who uh is let's call him an aaik okay and then to also go to a t oric celebration at a show or some other show well at the same time asking all of his questions to his very Zionist kipasa wearing Rabbi that perhaps um describes me although I don't really do DFI anymore so but but uh in a way so the idea that Rim salek has a spirit spiritual sensitivity um is a phenomenal trait and I think that it's a trait that RAB Dophin also shows uh through much of his work and what is that work he's been he's known as a historiographer or a historian the word historiographer I think was just a word invented by historians to say that anyone that doesn't publish can be called a historiographer anyone that doesn't publish in journals gets called a historiographer but really um the uh robbi doin's work has been widely cited R Delphin is uh has been acclaimed by uh Professor Jonathan sarna who's one of the uh really known as Al the dean of of uh Jewish historians um and uh he was invited last year at the Jewish archives in Cincinnati in Cincinnati to be the first visiting cidic um historian or historiographer uh to do research there and to lecture at the Jewish archives in Cincinnati so his work is his work is very well respected whether it's um conducting interviews um getting oral histories that would otherwise be lost and and uh and writing them as well as um of course checking all the facts and and making sure that uh he presents a a true uh story as to events so with that said I'd like to uh ask our Dalin to speak a little bit about the book and uh here he is I'm going to bring with you I'm not going to give you a lecture okay you want a lecture you go downstairs so first of all Ellie didn't even show you the book this is the book okay the cover is from the re 1980 and I was there when came this coming shabas is it's the day when the passed away and the became came next to B and in honor of the 30th Anniversary Reis salv came it was an awesome experience awesome there were 5,000 people in the room and when he came in of a salvic All Eyes turned and then the re shortly thereafter I saw all this firsthand this isn't I read and heard I saw it and then the rebel walks in everyone's standing and this picture is what you saw this is how they greeted each other it was a seen to be seen the the palpable love the admiration that these two great Giants of T these two great leaders these manhan were standing face to face in front of 5,000 people youat January I forget the exact English date maybe January 12th or so 1980 many years went by and as a writing I'm thinking about different subjects and topics what would interest people not what would interest Ken doin or Ellie racklin what would interest interest you what would interest everyone downstairs what would interest the greater Jewish people worldwide and in general that's my style of writing my last 30 books are about the comparison Contra compare and contrast between kabar and other communities kabar and TS kabar and pich they didn't throw me out of 77 yet don't worry andas a good kabad and list goes on right and it's and it's I present to you the research that I found and you the reader decide it's not for me to tell you now naturally I'm aisher I can't get away from it and I don't want to get away from it I'm happy to be a laaber and not just a laaber I lived and live with my teachers was my Masia my wife zansi was a ye who I spent time with as as much as possible I saw FAS is her great uncle these are people that I lived with menle was in our house in Marin County California when we were is there in 1988 or ' 89 we released the video of that so this isn't I'm not you know I'm not giving you bubba mes I heard from him and he heard from him you know which many books unfortunately are that way bubis baloney it's a lot of hard work research hours of conversations now naturally someone tells me a Bubba I try to compare it to another Bubba you put two together you know but the point being that that this book so in 2016 Dr rackin mentioned I wrote to uh the this the book The Rob 400 page book The 553 footnotes it reprinted three times it's out of print currently we'll find the right donor one day and we'll get it reprinted but for now I decided to put the spin on the Yesa sha University and kabad and I want to tell you why I did that it isn't just because my other book is had a print and such a it was bought so well so I'll put it a new title and therefore people no no I have the water here I know what happened to it anyway thank you so University the Yesa that I'm standing in right now is is a major institution a major institution a very important institution and the fact is we have here I could see amongst you a solid group of kabik okay I I I know them I smell them and and and know I know their parents and grandparents and great-grandparents probably half of the people here in my time 1970s I'm an old gezer in my time not many kiks went to Y University you can count them on your finger Stern College a few more drer Dr alab which some of you from Stern know new no okay girls you know women a little more open to college what's the deash college and right here I want to say that Dr racklin really racked my brains racklin racked my brains on the college question and I gave him a hard time on it I still don't agree with everything that he concluded but nevertheless I let him write it you know why I let him write it I let him put it in cuz that's the truth I'm not looking for you to hear just my opinion I want to hear your opinion and I want you when you read it to feel that way and and therefore the rebel went to college well what kind of college did he go to why you didn't go to college and then he says you shouldn't go to college how do you reconcile that and that's a question that I'm sure everyone in this room who knows about it has asked himself and still asks himself and I don't I can't say we have a good answer I told Dr racklin the answer that I believe to be the answer and he questioned it and he challenged it and it's in the book and it's fine and now you'll all decide if you end up reading the book which I hope you will you'll you you you make your decision the Yesa is an important Institution for yish for Judaism doesn't mean it's a 77 doesn't mean it's a it's a modern Orthodox Isa the whole idea that EBA once told me I'll let you in on a secret this I don't think I ever shared with you ell my wife and I my wife was here and I have to give her tremendous credit and Gila Ellie's wife have to give her also bigger credit cuz Ellie and I Ellie spent nights sometimes all night literally my wife just reminded me I remember you talking to to Ellie at 3 in the morning not exaggerating this was this was a a major work a major effort on his part after I wrote the manuscript anyway so in 19 1984 my wife and I were sent by DEA to Marin County California you know what Marin County is have you ever heard of Marin County Marin County was depicted in a 1970 documentary as the hotb capital of the United States and what do you do in a hot tub you smoke dope that they don't call dope marijuana or whatever right that's to put it mild what you doing a h anyway that's where my wife and I were sent I remember someone living one of the Cities a Jew from New York who ran away to California I'm talking about yishai midst with different things and he says you're going to tell me I'm from New York I know I know what judism is meanwhile he's raising pigs in his backyard with a big ponytail that's what we had to deal with and we dealt with it bar so that's just giving you a little picture of where Marine count is North of San Francisco across the Golden Gate Bridge so the first year we came first summer first summer we went I think in July yeah July and they had a fair August they had a fair at this Fair it's a great time for so I met all kinds of Eden all kinds of people then I said I had ACC to a federation list there 1900 Jewish names I said I'm going to send each one a flyer I'm in town they're not coming to greet me I might as well greet them hello I'm here we're here printed up so I saw a friend of mine Barry shyan the shiman from Chicago I came across at that time a flyer he had his picture there and on top of it said I I am not reformed I am not conservative I am not Orthodox then it says I am K and the philosophy of Kad is to love every Jew you know and therefore come and I saw this I said this is the message I'm going to emulate this flyer make put a nice card make it smaller send it out I printed up five ,000 pieces but I have a boss the boss is the he sent me there right I had I should I should let him know what I'm doing so I let him know just let him I didn't ask him I I already printed them up re I'm going to send these out a few hours went by and my phone rang I think it was RAB Klein ol one of the Reb secretaries who said the Reb wrote an answer on your flyer he made a some comment I said ra Klein please fax it in those days you know we have fax machines send that wrote me a whole answer I think it was like 10 lines and the bottom this was his nuda his and I asked I asked three people to interpret it and they couldn't give me interpretation but the Reb said basically your message will evoke and awaken old arguments what old arguments there were no FR people in Maring County maybe four or five from people I went to RAB fredman man fredman and Rabel gr RAB secretary and I asked him could you interpret from they said we have no idea I said to him I have no I have no l Fox here no MN them I have no SP them I I just no one knows anything here who am I fighting with and that ever said to me by saying I am not reformed I am not conservative I am not Orthodox you're giving in to the divisions that itself is saying that there is reform conservative Orthodox and you're not and it contradicts your message I am Kad Kad is obviously strong all one how you all one if you just said there's three and you're not one of the three and the in the end at the end he wrote may the good Lord forgive you you understand this is not this is not this is the writing to a a young new married 23 years old I took the 5,000 I had a a g little garbage can and dumped him in the garbage and never went out I you ask how did Barry b shim in Chicago send it out I asked him he says I didn't know I didn't get such an answer I don't know if he wrote it's not my business I got this answer why am I sharing the story because the work of laich the work of the work of the is to find ways and really like Ellie said before to show that we are one we are one people we are really one people what keep are you mention to keep us through God what color keeper you with what beard no beard those are all nice things important things but that's not where it's at where it's at is to serve Aus with sincerity and to be open and truly appreciate everyone this this safer shows how the you passed by here so his picture Sal put this building that's now here and so large and K so many people and everything else they put it on the map yeah had Dr Revel you had you had you know what kind of were in this institution in 1920s so Sal Sal's Father the Son of taught here till he passed away in 1941 it's all true but the one who took this Yesa and put it on the map it was Rabbi salvation Yash Sal because he ordained they say 2 th000 and more than that he was he was a Statesman he had a we saying yish he was strong he didn't bow down Etc so today it's 30 years later right 2025 passed away 19 1993 a year before the Reb the Mark I hope I don't live in Washington Heights I don't study here and tonight will be at speaking of Young Israel tinet we'll see what's going on there I really hope that today's students today's Balaban today's modern Orthodox Young Israel Yesa University people and guess whatab recogniz this person's tit the greatest crime and I discussed this with top students of the r Zigler comes to mind an injustice was done to him by guess what not by kadik by his own comrades in the lsh world and I don't want to go into it now I've written about it you can find it in my book on Lakewood my first book on Lakewood and butel told me the r made a choice in 1943 I think it was a 44 where he left the Auda you mentioned before AA he left the a for the mrai movement and Rabbi Ziggler he felt that that was a choice he made and he made that choice well what does that mean what does that mean is it relevant today in 2025 and I think I should say I know question is whether you know that in these books the way you learn or you study economics or medicine or whatever whatever you do in your life and you're going to become that's the way I study such a topic it's n to me it's relevant to me in the pupil of my ey it's very very important because I see the transmission of the previous world to today I see the H the Contin continuation of to me RAB Sal isn't the past he's here today how is he here to today through his T so you have to study his T you have to understand what he wanted do I have to be a m no I chose to be aab you choose to be no problem great but to understand the T and the history the sociology like Dr rlin said earlier is very very important and I want to just conclude with one more thing and I'll give it back to you Ellie if you wouldd like writing books is very nice I saw my father thank God he's 87 years old he's I guess related to the Dolphins to ten house so you must be related to my father too I just saw him Liv in CR heikes may be well my father was born in Romania in bavina he wrote a book on his life he survived the Romanian Holocaust and he's saying me on the way out I said I'm going up to Yi University to to talk at about the book he says zman he speaks in yish you know I me he knows English too but you know Z tell me mention how many people put on because of your books you know Romanian gon for model they're very right to the point they say it the way it is there's no philosophizing don't go with them they just especially book ofina b of they have to it's a class for itself okay book ofina is next to mova anyway and I told him I have aund I have 101 people putting on film cuz I wrote books he looks at me he says no no no I want I want this rapping rapping I said in order to rap you need everything you need someone standing on like I used to stand in the 70s when the re came out with him if the tanks were against the simulation I was there on 47th between on fth Avenue asking would you like to put on fill are you Jewish yeah when it started not not today when it started in 7576 and I can tell you some of the conversations I had with men and women okay today they would turn colors from the conversations I had with them as a 17 18 year old young man point of these books is to bring more of Hashem here and one of the main top one of the topics that Ellie and I talk about and write about in the book and Ellie was a tremendous editor and really a co- co-author and and I and I really publicly thank you bis so the purpose is to share with the world we have a gem K has a gem and it's in a closet but there's 5,000 K houses B what about the millions of Jews who don't know about kabad houses who are not learning you need to learn and those and I see quite a few here with the hatch without the hats this color that color you have to ask yourself a question it's youat I told you the I bring it it's not a lecture what am I doing to spread to teach and is something that can that that that engages a person and wakes a person up and the r in 1976 there was a there was a thought of him moving for 6 months to a year to ER RS in the book the details and he made a curriculum you know was on the curriculum besides learning the and everything else twice a week for 45 minutes each time how do you like that Rabbi salivic put that into the curriculum so don't tell me that the father figure of the of the modern Orthodox world the so-called father figure you know because I see him as a in our generation not just a father figure of the modern Orthodox world but regardless he understood and he learned I heard from a student from the 60s I believe who brought the r in the building across the street where's the uh the dormatory somewhere around the old d so was his birthday so the guy comes he's from Philadelphia comes to the student with with a birthday cake knocks on the door the r opens up he says yes how can I help you says re whatever you called him he says it's your birthday today he says in bris we don't celebrate birthdays but he says come in he comes in he puts the birthday okay and he told me you know what he saw on the on the on the rubs this is this little dormatory room in the other book I have exactly which room it was on the second floor third floor I forget now anyway he saw a science mathematics book and the on the table so NE I tell you that this is for everybody but we need people can explain see this and teach to this and everyone can so I know we came here to present the the say for the book but at the same time it's yat it's an appropriate time for everyone to g thems under to take upon themselves to somehow learn with another person teach whatever whatever you can and not in a way that becomes combative and all that no today it's all gone I've written about about this extensively all those old issues okay it's nice here people write me we can't put your book down because the footnotes that's the secret by the way in my books not the text the footnotes Ellie WR 70 pages of footnotes in this book 70 Pages you want to find the secrets you read the footnotes and you read them carefully the old vengeancesynyster figure the Father the Z of R Josh Gordon does class.org right his grandfather was named Gordon so he was the he was the the and the r of the city was a ler link now you know that the way the Alat says you should you have the knife has to be a certain way sharp with it's called when it comes to when it comes to slaughtering and the world disagrees no he's the so he says to Gordon you can't she here according to the balat it's not good Gordon what should he do and he put a lot of pressure on it I'm not going to get into details but I'll just leave it at that he put a lot of pressure on him okay it talk now back uh probably 1920s 100 years ago uh maybe thir early 30s anyway puts pressure on him and Gordon was very very upset Rabbi Gordon had a son he already maybe some of you knew him from is Gordon lived in Crown Heights and he became a teacher by my wife's uncle RAB F in Worcester theab Rab in Worcester was there since 1946 so rabbi is Gordon tells his father T father you know in town who became a rabbi here he came after the war G Linkin oh he said gink now I'm going to make G Linkin into goulash but he went into the death he went into the de and he told the rebba this everything I'm telling you and he told the rebba what he plans on doing to really curse out kinol like you jerk why' you do this to me so you have a different sheas you want to make my not Kosher and you know what the told him Z Zen K vort don't say a word he went down to Worcester he met the linol and he embraced him and he didn't say a word that's our Happ a person who wants to hurt you a person who wants to do bad to you and the says and after the war it's a new world my friends it's not just after the war it's 2025 we see open Miracles and there going to be a final Miracle where the enemy will be destroyed or run away or both and they'll be sh because hem promises us and if hem promises us that's the way it's going to be it's not a figment of one's imagination or a Bubba Misa or what they said you know yeah when hair will grow on my pond will come no if the ter says it's going to happen I don't know when but it's going to happen so let us all resolve to to take upon ourselves a a good resolution for the upcoming year starting from yat to to share ter in general see this in particular and to grow together as as yeen Ellie would you like to say something what yeah just a couple shorts go ahead okay I don't know if I went too long but all right so I just wanted to share um uh one aspect of the book and um but very much in brief there's a section in the book um eth chapter of the book discusses quite a bit about the the uh tud methodology of uh Ric which is based on the brisk methodology and um and comparing contrasting that to the Der of of randerson of of the Rev which was based on um largely although was a composite of a few approaches on the D of the rug um and that um and how the um how the Der of each of these uh two great leaders corresponds as well to their philosophy of the world um the rugat Trover um would look at uh Concepts such as time and similar to the physicists um who debate whether time is made out of discret moments in time or whether it's run one long continuous uh when there's one long continuous band of time the Ruger Trevor discusses um how how time works and he looks at time and applies that across many different loic areas and connects them in ways that others would never would never even dream of connecting them so the the U methodology of the rug TR therefore would look at for example a thousand different arguments and not literally but make a thousand arguments and borrow them all down to five core arguments methodology r as as the Reit thought would also for example took look at two people like Rebel lezar and Reb Yeshua who constantly argued um in in uh in the mishna and we try boiling that down to all of their arguments boiling down to one key concept and it was this idea of universalizing of trying to come up with universal principles that applied across all areas of Torah and in fact the rebba even wrote to a scientist that the search for the grand UniFi Theory which was um for those who are scientific bent there's uh two basic ways of scientifically um uh describing the world there's uh relativity and then there's uh Quantum Dynamics and the two formulas don't seem to go together and there's what's called a search for Grand unified theory which is to discover one bridging Theory or one way to perhaps include everything in one Theory and the rebba wrote that the search for that theory was representative and the hopefully uh finding of of un of uniform Universal principles was consistent with the idea of of finding that the entire Torah is all unified and which of course it is and the Tor represents the ultimate unity because of because it represents Unity of a Kadesh baru so one of the things that comes up um as well in the book in this analysis is that there was significant difference between the Rob's approach and and the re's approach the re was always looking for things that would try finding UniFi principles and whereas so much of the Rob's writings were about fractures in and dialectics which of course is consistent as well with the brisker method which means the way that two things were opposed to each other so the Rob would write would write about would write about um the pain of Separation um after after the death of a loved one and that that pain would always be with with someone and that some people had to balance pain and sorrow against um um against happiness or the rub would sometimes say that there's two different personality types or archetypes Adam one and Adam two for example in some of his R and then another wri he would come with another two archetypes and another wri be another two archetypes and say the world's Divine to these two and none of those things really seem to fit together you can't map them out and say in fact some people have tried and and said it doesn't all it doesn't all fit together and some have actually critiqued the rav because of that but I just want to present a a um something um a mush an analogy I thought of to appreciate the beauty in both of these ways of looking at at the world um and just as a very quick preface to that one thing to note is that the rav uh spoke um quite a bit about the beauty of the section in Tanya which discusses the unity of the entire world and the r was a very firm believer that this was one of the most important parts of Tanya one of the most important parts of Jewish philosophy yes in in in in T and but despite that the r felt that we almost never get to see that in this world the r describes in K D do of his seminal essays describes the entire world as a tapestry so when you look at it from the front it's beautiful the problem is in this world we only look at it from the back we never get to see the front so the two World Views though seem to be a little bit bit of pose do do we look for Unity in this world or do we resign ourselves to not seeing it so the analogy I thought of is the following imagine you have two people they both received a gift maybe a kanuka present maybe a birthday present except it's only Lich I guess that does that celebrates birthdays and in brisk we don't celebrate birthdays but uh um but two people receive a a gift in both cases the gift is a sort of puzzle now one person receives a puzzle to jigsaw puzzle it's it really tough jigsaw puzzle has a thousand pieces and in fact maybe as he starts putting the puzzle together he realizes that he's actually missing 20 pieces he doesn't even have the whole puzzle but he has 980 pieces of a thousand piece puzzle that person for that person though he realizes this is not an impossible task it takes time it takes effort but he can start putting the pieces together and he can end up looking at a beautiful at a beautiful picture so it's a very worthwhile Pursuit for him to do that even though it's true he will never really see the whole picture but he can see a lot of it and that's why he puts his attention into doing that the second person receives a different kind of puzzle he gets one of those 3D model brain teasers um where and the brain teaser comes with a uh it's it's a model of of of a ship for example and look and the brain teaser says once you remove the central Mast take a good look at it and get your pictures before cuz you're going to pull out the central Mast of the ship in a certain way once you do that this thing's going to collapse into 300 pie pieces and until we reveal the secret of this in 10 years you're going to be able to look online and we're going to post the secret as to how to hold it put it together properly you will never be able to figure out how this thing goes together it's virtually impossible there's a trillion different ways to put together you'll never guess what it is person looks at it enjoys it pulls the thing out and now he has a box of 300 pieces that he'll never put together the interesting thing is though that person can keep those pieces in the box and every time he looks at that box he can wistfully think all right I can't put it together but I know it all fits together I know that at its core there's Unity here but I'm not going to get to see it I'm not going to get to see it for now because of course the r believe that we wouldn't see any of this Unity until the time of msia in this world as as we live it what do we have we have a a box full of fractured pieces but we can look at those fractured pieces and still appreciate that they make up one Unity One beautiful world that that uh isab baru's world so I just want to end with the idea that these are two different ways of looking at the world but again for many of us perhaps sometimes and some we feel like there's this one one way of looking at the world that things appear very very fractured so we should keep in mind that there actually is a unity and other times we could see more of the unity in the world which and work towards building that unity and I hope uh that we are successful in doing that VI uh M yeah I just want to uh tell everyone that the book will be downstairs they don't let us sell it up here so you got to go downstairs to to purchase it how about some questions answers arguments comments philosophies anything uh go ahead it's your turn now don't be don't be shy uh no yes Mr Franco right very good the re and the U you talked about the reunion at the FI yeah did they know each other from Paris they knew each other from Berlin 1928 what kind of um connection have that tremendous uh connection there was a very few Orthodox uh people and they all stayed together and in particular they learned uh Rabbi Kim hel who also was a teacher here in 19 I if you remember him 1960 passed away and um they studied he would give a class and he was himself a big genius uh but the re andv had a a very good relationship and a close relationship in starting from Berlin um but again his grandfather as as Dr rack mentioned of H brisker and the re rashab the fifth re of shom be had the relationship going back to at least 1897 thank you yeah and it's there's a lot about this in the book okay just saying it's we did we did we did we brought we brought the past the present you know on yes no well some of the laab here what do you guys have to say don't be shy come on come on you're laughing go ahead why why do you think it might be if this is true that the that perhaps the current set of Rashia sha and Wu view things different that are salv in terms of their appreciation and and respect to habat boy you really you really want you really want to throw the punches I don't know the truth is Dr racklin really probably can answer it better because he he he he lives in Te and EK I think is the Hub in the way of modern Orthodoxy and Yu um I live in burrow Park which you know we believe the the only Jews that are exist are in burrow park right anyway um the the flavor I'll make it short without philosophizing Rabbi salvic was outnumbered very simple 1951 or 52 53 Rabbi drer had a Tanya share in his dormatory room okay I interviewed him and uh he you know and Rabbi all time Mor time who already I think gave this year one of the rashash at the time uh was very upset and wanted to stop it and I think he did stop it for a while I think and um I know who it is he's also M I'm not going to tell you but that you really have to read the footnotes and they brought this to the RV and and the r said I forget the yish words ell Al megman Leon everything you're allowed to learn Wu all the philosophies right including AIC courses okay yeah we we didn't put that into the book but that's my understanding what he said again I wasn't there but I can see him saying that cuz he was direct he was a brisker you know so he said he calls it the way it is everything you gotow to learn or to put in today's vernacular you can have a gay club and a this club and this club and a kabad club maybe no yeah why right the gay club is more coer than the kabad club it's going back no so the RV the r was for it but most of the others were not because they were still under the influence of you know the not just the the opposition to but that was then when you say now you're here and I don't know what you're referring to and I really don't want to get into it right now in public but it's an issue RAB ra endorsed the book RAB kep from the gr K in Jerusalem 87 years old he's been on a path to try to get the Yeshiva to incorporate like the r wanted in the curriculum not I think not at the club that's great not at the rabbi kerser bound's place that's great in the curriculum like the r wanted in 1976 45 minutes at least twice a week right and R ke and I've spoken a lot about this and I recently spoke about it too I spoke to Ellie about it and I spoke to one of the Rabon here one of the rabbis one of the leaders so far there's no movement now the closest movement they had was in 19 2013 or 14 when they hired up MOA Weinberger that ended I think Co time and I had a long discussion with him I interviewed him it's in the book as well not everything but um good stuff and uh you know Robert Weinberger is is a is alumni of of of Yu and um was a test and it from his perspective it worked tremendously I don't know the conclusion of the leaders if you know those that are still around from his days what they felt but you know hopefully hopefully it'll it'll it'll be more and more I think uh what's your first name Mandy Mandy I think there's a sociological issue happening that really stops some you know the the kabad world is so popular today so known and in a way in a way I'm going to use a word that's not it's not what I mean but I'm going to use it for you to understand aggressive overbearing overwhelming wherever you go it's right Coca-Cola right that bothers people and and I think that issue even though in truth it's not that way because yeah you need you need a kab in New Mexico to serve the Jews there and when when you go on vacation to Scandinavia who's serving you is University uh M Satur B Flatbush who's serving you K so everyone wants to piggy back on as we saying when you need them but when it comes to a little pem is you know it's like you're there and I'm here so the sociological issue I think is really uh the reason that it it they haven't overcome that issue and and I hear it I I still think that it's wrong wrong it's not you know if the r wanted it as far as I'm concerned if the r wanted it it has to be by us in who is who sets the rules the not the Masia and not the big and if the tells you to go to a Masia to a that's the kak the re right but the re is K who is kova here I would think Rabbi salvation should be COA without him you wouldn't have 2,000 Rabon rabbis so just remind me I was in Camp mugin you heard of Cam abum I was a co-counselor it's a whole story and believe me I got patched for going there it's not camp and I was a was a good student guy and I wanted to show that I can go into a l camp and cheer kabad with these young boys and you know and be it's all lit Fox you know and I got the job it's I was interviewed by sax over him my friend and I he didn't get the job cuz he said without a mikah he couldn't do it and I said I'll take care of it so I got the job he didn't and I went to the mikf don't worry I found a way but anyway anyway so my co-counselor was someone actually from Washington Heights I forget I remember forget the name now I'll remind myself he was Mish of Washington he K you know like the yis yis and and and um I say to him we had a good relation Rel ship I say to him you know do you learn some he says no say and we don't learn Caba I said first of say this is not Caba it's wrong okay it's a two-way street one's going this way one's going this way without going into it now it's not cabala it's wrong it uses capitalistic language sometimes and a concept but it's not cabala anyway but more importantly he says we we that's not our M you know we we pull out that holy word m we have two words in the in our in our dictionary you know what those two words are Hasa and M believe me I know what Ash is and I know what m is and I respect them and I live with them okay but when you pull out that card to do what you want to do you're full of it you're a fake phony Floyd as Bob Grant used to say so M so I said we can design the M how can this be your M if the r had a on his table and he learned you know what he told me that part of the rub we don't accept that's your answer meny that's the answer I'm telling you that part of the world we don't accept it's like saying spoke about msia and make such a thing about msia he went too far that's part of the rep I don't accept you're not a laure you're not a laure or maybe you're Al you're notab the today I wa safe you can't accept The Good the Bad and the Ugly in any group don't join or to put it another way if you belong to a group and you want to identify it has to be in your bloodstream in your bloodstream in your veins and they cut your vein what comes out if you're if you're a modern Orthodox whatever that is etc etc and if it's not in your veins you have a lot of work to do do and I tell this to my fellas in bar I told yesterday he left he became I say really why' you leave because the Reb this the Reb that I said so what kind of were you to begin with you're Aid that you you need to get something out of the relationship that's Aid that's not a a isn't your bloodstream like the famous story of gar you know the story he say you he says yeah he says always blesses you he says absolutely he says even when you lose money when he he was a very wealthy man he had the lumber going down the and it was flooded he says I'm a when the re's BR doesn't come out I'm his that's a long answer you got it right anyone else yes second chance okay please second and a third okay go ahead you saying that the that the RO gave a hex to Etc then when the when the rebi was alive so you would make a jump from there to saying that he would give the same acttion today the way that kab is morphed into post the demise yeah because the T didn't change yeah but the didn't change you may not I don't know if you've heard of Dr David burer is one of our I debated him I wrote a book against him yeah okay he's one of our intellectual Superstars here at Yu and he wrote an entire book I know that SK and I debated it right okay so the kid what was you know how did you respond to them I responded the mo say who I D with one of them in burrow Park called me over one day after Bo he says did you hit you know someone named burger burger burger I said yeah which Burger says professor and he says he wants us to put an iser on kabad a prois on their food and all of that and he says we're not going to do it so this didn't come from a laer this came from a park but but let's not the point is like this the T didn't change the r passed on the re passed on theab is Chang you know but when you say kabad change could you give me an example well there's a belief which Dr Burger feels borders forget about forget about that what else what else that's a major change what else that's it that's it okay one issue the Messiah issue yes okay mashiach is a reality who mashiah is as theb said said is not relevant he wrote that it's in his handwriting we could debate and I could show you sources for what they call the mtic view I could show you sources in Abel starting the gorra right but we don't pan we don't rule that way right Burger went very much further you know there's a rabbi bar Rabbi so he meets me this is the beginning of the whole issue and he says I say to him you you're upset he says no he says it says in the CH the response on Jewish law there's a claw there's a rule M crazy about that thinges some laes are crazy about that thing okay but when you when you look to to invalidate their marriages say their food is not Kosher that's that's and that's why the mo never agreed said that he's Messiah he said Messiah is coming and he said more importantly you know what he said and I heard it from him he said you have to do something to bring mashiah so the brought mashiah to the table and he kept it alive and he really believe Messiah is coming he really believed with every strength in his body that Messiah will come because if you do not believe that let's talk honest if you don't believe it then it's some kind of you know you know one day we will all be together one day the Messiah will when is that day when is that day you tell me when that day is so I don't know that e didn't know but that e took it and he said 1900 years I was with the re many times when he cried saying those words 1987 at of fa 1900 years and he's still not here this is EMS so David Burger God bless him and I respect him for his his work you know he was focusing from one angle a very academic angle I think Ellie said I think Ellie said at the beginning I'm not a historian that 's mother writes I'm not a writer I'm not the son of a daughter of a writer says I'm not a historian I'm not the son of a historian I don't want to be a historian I want to share historical ideas and and facts and analyze it so David is coming if I may say so from a very narrow academic world and from that academic world you know some of these ideas sound like the second coming and on and on I understand I'm not stupid I I know I I know that but that's not that's not where the re was coming from and that's not where he is coming from now that re isn't someone just like salvation these people aren't someone the past they're today and that's I'm trying to communicate that to you for the last hour these people both reab Sal and are real today but they're only become more and more real if we bring them we live with them we bring them to the table and that might answer someone asked the kabad lives with the right look around the room those kabad young young people some I don't even know if everyone here saw their re right you did I know you did you're not 35 years old or 30 years old or 20 years old but some are here young right they never saw the them he passed away 31 year uh uh 31 years ago right how do they live with the how do they it's amazing and I'm telling you they live live with it ever how how is that it's not a fanaticism it's they study and they study and they study his Torah just like Ellie Ellie comes he learned in Toronto near he doesn't come fromus ask your question to him why and he doesn't have a beard he's not aiter he's not outside right and what because that's my point let's focus on what's your first name Danny Danny I'm convinced you at your age you're a young man you start learning some of these questions will dissipate there's no question about it ask him he probably had the same questions it's late but I just want to say just one one book recommendation besides this book sir I have to forgive me um so uh bronstein who's um uh ragman's uh son-in-law um wrote a book engaging the essence I see they have tons of it stock downstairs it's phenomenal book I don't know if you're familiar with it or if you speak oh yeah yeah on on on the Theology of on the Theology of so I'll simply say that like myself no I I mean I have some issues with some aspects of some people who who believe things that I think are not not in accordance with yeah exactly not necessarily in accordance that said um that said that's distinct from studying The Works of of it and the fact that there's so many of his tomm and his Tom's tomm um who who were not part of the um you know not have the belief system that you're that you're talking about that he's you know that he's second coming and all this other stuff again I'm not an expert on that um at all but I I would simply say that the the fact and again I know it's kind of like arguing from Authority isn't necessarily the strongest thing but the fact that you like uh you have the sales of bronine who's writing this there there certainly um is a very viable way to access a lot of that Torah um without um some of the aspects and by the way of course his his PhD was on his pH committee was Professor David Berger um yeah but that's but that's not to knock anybody because really I whatever Point thank you for coming and we'll see each other very soon again