Carlebach shul, Hamburg 1930-40, Kristalnacht, Eliezer Goldschmidt #1 - Rabbi Chaim Dalfin

Welcome to meaningful interviews with Rabbi Caim Dolphin. I'm here in Katamon Erit Israel Jerusalem Jerusaleim with a wonderful couple and we'll be talking to the husband primarily Rabbi Lezar Golmmet from Hamburg Germany and he will tell us his briefly his life story his happenings how he came from Germany to America from America to ro and uh will go from there. But Hashem, Hashem has blessed them with long years of as we say of him and uh it's wonderful to be here. So Rebel, please take over. Tell us about your your your your early beginnings, your parents, your grandparents, just a little history. Please go ahead, please. As it as it was mentioned, I was born in Hamburg uh of the family, the youngest of three children. Uh I had two two older brothers. Uh the middle one unfortunately passed away already. Uh and when were you born? I was born in in Tav Sadik in 1930 in Schwat Tgra Sadik. In what city? in Hamburg and uh the things were so to speak usual, but as a result of the changes in the economic situation, my parents moved over to the uh together with my grandfather h when I was approximately five years old. Where did they move to? that my grandfather was a resident of for several generations already in Hamburg. So you say they moved where they moved to to a different address in Hamburg. Oh, in Hamburg. I understand. In Hamburg, right? And um uh and therefore I began to I began to know my grandfather as very much as well. And uh from there on from there I went to the school which was the Torah in in Hamburg which was located right next to the main uh shoo was the R of the Shul Rabbi Carl Bach. Yes. So you knew Schllay Carlbach when he was a young boy? No I knew I did not make any personal connection. I I knew we were sitting and I knew that Rabbi Kalbach was his roof of the shoot but Napolei right Navali Carlbach no not was a I believe brother of okay okay was one of the Kalabak right okay anyway so you went to a Torah in Hamburg yes this school was had both so to speak Hebrew lessons and has as well in other words Jewish lessons and has German lessons and general cultural lessons. And your family goes back how many years in Germany? My the Goldman families goes back in Germany. Uh what for at least we have we have documents or we have people have written about them uh for something like uh the beginning of 1600 and or even earlier and and and there you were yakas yuckas all along. My parents were My parents that was my father's family was Yakish. My my uh my father married um obviously my mother later. She was she was her her her f The story of my my mother's family is that my uh mother's uh mother in other words my grandmother married at the age after as a as a as a young person so to speak as a person not who have not married at the age of 40 to a person who uh was a widow. uh who had been uh the son of of rebel who came from Lithuanian to to uh to Germany and he became a widow and he had one child and then he married my my mother at 40 at 40 40 and she had a child at one child your mother. Yes. Wow. At what age? At 41, 42? Yes, at 41. Obviously, in 1890. Uh, I mean, I have the exact dates. But your your mother was born, you say, in 1890. Um, no, my mother was born in 1897. 1897. Okay. 197. Okay. Let's go. So, let's continue on with your uh the 1935 approximately. You were in Talmatra. Go ahead. Yes. What about Crystal? Let's talk about that for a minute. uh when well I can't get so quickly to has to do with the history of go ahead I apologize. Go ahead. Obviously we began to feel also I as a child began to feel the I would say this the danger of the uh Nazis of the Nazis because Hitler started his thing in 1933. Yes. But so you already felt it in Hamburg. I felt it in Hamburg even though he started it in Austria. Yes. But but I I I I'm speaking about what what I felt in Hamburg. And Hamburg, for example, when there was a parade and the parade obviously was accompanied by music, I as a child had to turn and run away and run away to the other direction for the simple reason that on one hand you were supposed to salute the flag. on the other hand that was absolutely dangerous for a Jew. So you learn to be so to speak as a child you learn to be not only with so to speak concerning the Jewish uh religion etc. But you may say you learned also the dangers of the political situation. Anyway, my parents also obviously it was getting worse and worse and uh they uh decided uh that I have to get out of Germany and my father who had been uh previous to the first world war and studying in the insurance business in in London with Lloyds and he got a position in Holland. And we went to Holland. In what year? We went to Holland in immediately after Pesak 38. Okay. April 38. And when was Crystal? November of wait. Then we went to Holland. But the and and to immigrate from Germany, so to speak. And uh at the border going to Holland, the Dutch uh said to my parents, the law changed and they sent us back huh to Germany. That was of course our I I as a child I was only eight years old. My parents didn't didn't transfer their concern to to me, right? But we I know that it must have been a terrible chuck for them. And how many siblings I for how many how many siblings were you? How many children? Three boys. Three boys. Are you okay? I was I was the youngest of three. Got it. Okay. Continue please. And uh so we were at that sta stage we went back to they were sent us back to Germany and we we stayed at a at a small border town bent time by the name and uh made so to speak thinking I suppose my parents thinking what was going to do was going to be uh because it was absolutely illegal for a Jew to who immigrated and we had been uh we we had been signed as immigrants from Germany uh to come back to Germany then that's what we did uh anyway we stayed there in the border town for some some time that was in April till it came to close to the uh time of the bar mitzvah of my oldest brother. Uh which so this was already 1939 38 yeah I'm still talking about 38 38 so uh we were sent these three boys were sent back to Hamburg to the apartment which was was the apartment of my grandfather. Uh uh my parents not going on the same time. My parents only coming back on Friday before the B mitzvah because they thought that if the Gestapo says anything that he has to he has to he's obligated to register with them only within three days. So he would have a free Shabbat. It was in Germany. It was still very much according to exactness precisely at that time at that time. So anyway, yuckas I do not remember anything of the bitzvah itself. I only remember the Shabbat afterwards after the baritzvah when I and my other brother other brother wanted to go to the shul before my parents even and in front of the door were two gustabo agents and they anyway they let you they let you in or not who lets me in if you say you say if you Don't if you don't let them in, they'll see to it that they're in. No, I'm asking. They were standing there not letting in the Jews into shul. No, I don't understand quite the question. You said there were two Gustapo agents at in front of our door. In front of your house? And at the house? At our house. Why were they there? in order they they knew that my father had registered at the on the Monday after the bitzvah and they knew that that he was there. Ah I understand. Okay. And what did they what did they say? What did they want? They wanted to see my par my parents. Okay. Anyway, uh so that was of course already a shock how they came in and how they quietly went behind me that I didn't even realize they were going behind me. Uh anyway, the situation is as I say so they told my father and my father obviously told me this as a when I was an adult if the Dutch wouldn't have put in a a stamp into the passport that they didn't permit you to go come in, we would have put you right away into a concentration camp. So that was a one second. There was no concentration camps yet. There were even before 1939. Yes. They took Jews to concentration camps in 1938. They if there was any reason whatsoever that they could then they put them called it prison, called it whatever you wish. Right. Okay. I understand. Okay. So we were there and my uh parents obviously were in a terrible uh situation situation because they were not this was as I said my brother's permits was in June 38 and I went continue to go to school and uh in November Number 38 was the uh Crystal Kn which in the house we didn't know see anything but when my father had heard that this man was shot in Paris so he told my oldest brother you don't go to school tomorrow but but anyway we went to I went to school and uh but there was and were you were now you're still you were still in Benton time at the time, right? No, no, we went back to Hamburg. Oh, you went back to Hamburg. Hamburg when So in Hamburg on the on the on the in the Yiddish in the Yiddisha area of Hamburg. Was there Crystal Knock there or not? Crystal Knock was in Shu. It was not on any place. No, no, they broke windows. They they they didn't break windows in Hamburg. They were very organized. That's what I'm asking. They were very organized. But I I saw pictures of them bring breaking windows in certain cities. Am I wrong? I do not know. Okay, go ahead. Anyway, I uh you went back to school. Okay, I went back to school. But the situation was very dire. On the way to school, I saw the destruction of the shoe which was the last previous night crystal night. Yes. Yes. And this main shoe that you dab and that you parent the carb shoe the rubber that was destroy was what? It was destroyed completely. Just broken windows. Windows. They did not in Hamburg. They did not burn the shoe. Uh-huh. They destroyed. They destroyed. They they d they damaged. They ruined it. Yes. Go ahead. And that was a terrible shock for me as a person who don't at a certain age. I was very Anyway, I was I got completely sick that uh the one of the uh I saw it also from the window of this of the school this building of the school is still standing anyway still standing today. This this building is still you you went back. No. So, how do you know it's still standing? I know it is. I thought I know it's there. Well, you know, you're a Malik. You know, you're a prophet. No, no. There have been there's a communication there. This is We know what's I know what's going on. Okay. Okay. Anyway, uh and my oldest brother took me home back home. On the way, we met my uncle who apparently had been uh authorized concerning the insurance of the things in Shul. He tried to go and see. So we met him and I I remember this to the very to this very day and I was as I said in 38 I was eight years old. Yeah. Yes. I remember the scene very well and I asked my brother to get home to get home. I don't want to see him. Obviously my I don't know what my uncle did at the time but my uncle by the way was able to stay in Hamburg because he couldn't get a visa to someplace else. uh he had sent he sent the children out to England in in a kinder transport the the his children but he he unfortunately perished he perished he had in 40 shalos in 43 and a a Jewish person who who was teaching in in Hamburg and who had a apparently a Dutch or or a Swedish passport got out and wrote about my uncle having built a a mikva under underground so to speak in 43 for one moment for what for the sake of one one woman. Wow. In Hamburg. In Hamburg. But and he was transported where? To Ashvitz. Pardon? He was killed in a concentration camp. He was killed and and in and was approximately yum kippa in in 44. And where? But where? Trebinka in Oshvitz. In Oshvitz. Okay. But afterwards he went to You want to say something? I