Alter Rebbe refused to excommunicate the Vilna Gaon, He became a Chasid bc of a scarf- RC Dalfin

Sodala tavis passed those 214 years since the alterba's histo passing. So I wanted to share a a story too with an insight. So the alterba was known as a great go in nigla in in talm before it became aid. Then he went to the maggot excuse me and it became aid. his his friends, the contemporaries, Sadikim, Reb of Palots, the flame of Khen, different other Rebes after the and his people put a an excommunication on I believe we're talking about in either the 17 late 80s or 90s, they ca they They they some say that one of them had a dream or they had a discussion and they decided they want to counter the excommunication that the go put on by putting the an excommunication on the go and his people. That's what they wanted to do. Now in terms if you look at the if a excommunication known as a but we don't like saying the word we say reverse the letters of which actually is but it means an expunitation inic terms it's a very serious thing very serious in other spiritually you're like uh I don't want to use the Christian word damned but it's it's it's trouble for your soul Okay. But that's they wanted to do. So they were told again some say it was a dream or they by higherups that it's not going to work. It's not going to be effective. Why not? Because the go is such a go and has the that theim the won't be able to stop the excommunication that the going put on unless one caveat unless they get someone who could match the going and learning and if they have one of the You need a minion to make such a commun excom communication and if you have one of the 10 who can match the go in learning then it would work. So they said to themselves who amongst us can do that amongst the talia mag there's only one one going to nigler that they could think of at that time and that was the balata because you know he was a going to nigla besides besides kabola they went to him some say it was the carers Some say was someone else but a few representative of the of the group went to him and they told him what I just told you and they asked him to please join the minion of people and alterb said absolutely not I'm sorry I'm not doing that and he and he explained he said like this for this for what you want to do to be effective you don't only need a regular a regular um a regular type of uh regular type of uh excommunication, you need even a stronger kind cuz you have to overcome the go the go's excommunication and he said the type of excommunication that I would that that we would have to put on him would be one that would cause him to become a khifer a denier in God and that will cause a tremendous Hashem a desecration of Hashem's name and that I will not do. That was the Balatana's response as he rejected the request of his when or whoever the the representative was heard this it happens to be that the alterba's son Moshe the youngest of the three boys ran in and he was standing near his father And said something to the effect. Don't quote me on the exact words, but you're concerned about you'll see already what kind of will come out. And he kind of pointed to his son Moshe something to that effect. And we know later in life there was a whole controversy with Mosha and debating the priest and then them and then winning their debate. But they then found they they accused him. They locked him up and they and they uh forcibly converted him which he didn't convert. But in their minds they converted him. That's why the the the message the went out that the altered episan converted which is an absolute lie nonsense and I disagree 1 million% with David Assaf the professor of um Parilan or wherever he is. you know even though he has a document he doesn't have another document which says that the brother says that his brother you know became depressed from it that happened but not that he converted they in their minds you know decided that he is converted and they did whatever they did but anyway that's another story don't want to talk about that right now but that came from aa you know what a kapeda means a stern warning from a sadic's mouth. I think this case was a big sadic and that was a a gura response that he gave to the balatana for not joining in the excommunication against the go. That's the story here. Finishes the story. This is written in various places for the previous rebba. It's also printed today in the rashimus of our reba the rashimas. So it's two different sources in other words. So I I it's to me more verifiable again it's all based on the previous heard it from his I believe his grandmother but uh just like other things that he heard which are true. He's not making up stories. He's telling you what he heard. By the way, I I might have told you this once, but Mosha, the same had my figures put him passing on in 17 in 18 um 73 to 78. He must have lived 85 to 90 95 years according to myb. So out of all the brothers, Tafkim Ramos lived a very long life but he was in isolation and hiding somewhere maybe in Chernovitz not in Russia for like 50 years and the previous in Iges draws a diagram of a shul a chernobyl shul maybe it wasn't chovitz a chernobyl shul where he says moisha was hiding in the attic he lived in an attic And you can look it up and you'll see the way the draws kind of a shul and you know or and and and the attic and he says that's where he was born in 1880 so he didn't see him but he heard that I imagine anyway what's the lesson from the story that I told you one lesson that look here how the alterb All the other talia magit sadikim rebas they want they wanted to excommunicate THE GO AND the alterb said no because he's afraid of to me this is a fascinating insight into the from dava like you know what if kina wasn't sadic but nevertheless Yes, you know, here was uh the guy going to put out this edict, this terrible excommunication. So, he said, "WE'RE GOING TO FIGHT FIRE WITH FIRE." THAT'S the point I'm making. And the alterb said you don't fight fire with fire because it'll cause a great and the alterb and the kinti which is the second which he wrote upon returning from pet from from pterberg from you know the utesis he was vindicated he writes there to don't raise your hand and don't whistle and don't curse this two is from God and just let Hashem take care of everything. So that he wrote in the print today in which we learned and the story is is substantiates what he wrote that he would not refuse to join. And I think that's a very very important understanding of whereabadis began. It began with this man, the balat zman. And it's even more fascinating when you know that first he was a litfac and I I was in Montreal. I told the people there I have a recollection of a what the previousb says he was like everyone else who would walk across the street from an ignoramis if you knew excuse me if you knew you're something you don't know talmud you're a nothing and the alter was part of that mindset and from there from he's coming from that list of waiting in approach shifts completely to the approach coach where he won't support uh an excommunication against the So you know people always ask I was asked by 10th and 11th grade uh high school girls in Brifka in Montreal the the the teacher asked what's the what's the use of knowing history? How is it relevant to us? And I told them that if you understand history, then you understand what's going on today and what you need to do better. And here's an example as well. If you go back to the origin to this story and you understand the difference between Dalba's approach and the and his contemporary approach, you understand that this is in the in the guts of Kabad. So you know you talk about the reba campaigns of putting on filling people and all that muzas and the previous rebas campaigns that was done in Baltimore and in Philly um the 1940s where Rabbi Axelrod from the sh near John Hopkins over there the congregation the labavichavich which today is owned by a Jew uh with the in 1930 I believe and the RV went out. I heard from people he went out marching in the street with signs and the congregants followed to to keep Shabas not to violate Shabas not to have your store open Shabas. So you THINK IT BEGAN IN AMERICA RIGHT IN the 30s in the 40s and look look at the story you see how it was planned already by the alterba 200 years before that. One more story and that is that the alterb didn't know where to go. In other words, he was a a so he thought he would go learn by the go in vn to enhance his learning or he heard that in mri there's a there's the mag of md who teaches you how to d properly with kavana with said he made a simple simple account he said learning I know a little I know how to learn a little bit so I go to the go and he'll teach me more but David have no idea what that means is the Davin and that of course D had the dudining and the pamilis but really to connecting through he didn't didn't have that didn't have that upbringing that that training so he decided to go to go to the mid he goes to the mid and he sees that that the mid and his areing a half a day says it's great but it's not for me I have sedor in gora inshallah I d for half hour, 40, 45 minutes, an hour. I dive in the morning like a man. Yeah. And then start learning nigla shal I'm not willing to give away a half a day for dinging to ding with great and at length and he leaves. Thank you. It's been a very nice experience mag and I I see what you're doing and it's galdig but I I I can't afford to give so much time when he cut when he start when he goes out he realizes he left his pray his shawl his scarf it's cold the scarf so he goes back to get a scarf when he goes back to get his scarf he hears the maggot talking to someone about the kashas of a lung ara and in Trafus there's a lot of it's a difficult sugia difficult part of the and and the mag was coming up with unbelievable ideas and he said wow the maggot is able to to to figure that out. I you know it seems to me he was aid with ding and but nigla wasn't his cup of tea. In other words, what he realized is he can learn also from the maggot. So he stayed for three years and it became a bashed once on this story all night from 8:00 in the evening till 7 in the morning and I'm not exaggerating that was the fab of the year was the first night of Uteskis leutes. We were young boys. We were 16 17. So we were allowed to stay from 8 to 11 and then we were officially had had to leave go go go go go to sleep cuz we had the next day yeshiva. They gave out prizes that had a special meals and the older bakar and many guests came from Brooklyn all over and they stayed till the hour we hours but I would my friend and I would sneak out because he wanted to hear more. So we we we did and then and you know they let us anyway. So he explained this story once all night. all night with details and I just the punch line the punch line that explained was and he asked a question like come on went back for a scarf he went back for a scarf and that and then he heard him speak Nigler and that drew him there but the whole issue was that he seems like he he wasn't willing to to spend a half a day davening it's not that he questioned the maggots's knowledge of Nigla. So why why would the scarf going back for the scarf and seeing that the magid you know nose nigla keep him there if if that wasn't the reason why he left and explained that the idea of the scarf is gashmas the physical in his mind until then the whole approach to god is spirituality so it's titus It's all concentrated mus what whatever tal primarily shales but when he went back for the scarf he realized it's the scarf the gashm it's the physical scarf that was the trigger you hear that was the trigger to open his mind that God is found in gashmas in a way more one second is sir and THAT BLEW HIS MIND AND THAT HE SAYS THAT I I my whole learning has not been with that APPROACH SO THAT'S WHY he stayed yes sir is sir >> I I I wanted to to add that I I don't think in my humble opinion that it's a coincidence that the the the issue that the The mugged was discussing was an along. We know that nima nama is very very tied together ru and breath and the lung and that yes the scarf is the gashmus but but within the rnius of of the two being together. >> Okay, I can hear that. You hear what I'm saying? >> I hear I hear what you're saying and I never thought of that and it's a a good a good point for thought. No question about it. But but it doesn't it doesn't supersede it. It doesn't supersede that the of the and the way the balata explains it again that the alterba had no idea about is that the gashm is is where it's at the infusion of course with like you say the >> talking about he wasn't talking about but he was talking about the I'm just saying that there there could be a connection there. >> I I know I know and I'm not I'm not I told you I it's a good point. I'm not refuting it. I I hear it's a good good thought. But whether it's from the you know or the scarf, you're saying from the I'm saying for the scarf. Fact is that he went back to the scarf. But >> no, I'm saying both. I'm saying both. It was the scarf by the time he hears the discussion about >> Right. Right. I I got it. I got it. Good point. So this opened his mind to a whole new dimension that he didn't have before. He probably didn't have that before. And if you think if you think that this is just 200 plus years ago, it's today. That's that's a main between the Lithuanian learning and theidic learning this. So that's why by saying on a little tick with a piece of herring and and a and whatever IS JUST AS IMPORTANT AS LEARNING TO page and by it's not it's it's just different. It's not bad or good. It's just different. So therefore when it comes to tick or whatever right say and don't they learn I'm saying that the difference between the two is already is is what it is is is the story the altera the scarf and the of 200 years before >> yes >> uh so question Um the question is that also the reason why inad um like when it comes to let's say like you know I'm not just talking about gashmat you know because you have gashmas and all that but when it comes to like to your typical you don't have the same type of especially by the women I'd say by the men also but but especially by the women the and meaning there's a there's more of an onus you you know in the in the superficial way to look like a man but to look also like you know fashionable I'm not saying like GQ magazine you do have people like that too but you don't see that necessarily you know by all >> you you you're you're but are you comparing >> I think you have to hang out in Burough Park in my a little bit more you see a lot of it a lot of it >> no but I'm saying like by you See there's a difference there's a big difference by the first of all regarding the the reb was the one that said that women should should wear you know and a lot of they don't wear if they wear you know they wear a hat on top of the shait meaning there was an emphasis specifically on style on fashion and looking you know more attractive and things like that >> that's for women I'm saying by the men if you would look how the men are dressing now and the advertisements for the men and the heights of the strimos I That's it's it's it's out of control. >> Yeah. No, no, I get it. By men, for sure. But I'm putting more an emphasis on the women. >> Okay. But but but you're asking within it itself, you're not comparing to litish. >> No, I mean litish. Forget about litish. We know. We know that they, you know, they're not into that. We know that, you know, like what is just said, there's more of >> um emphasis on the way the way the what I see based on you know my research is not just living in the community it depends where your cult we come culturally Hungary Poland or Russia and three different places with three different mindsets Hungarians were very stylish and put together and proper uh Polish were pro were not and um Russia Russians were not but for example Russians were very cultured the opera my wife's grandmother was remember sister you know went to the opera that was that that's what girls did doesn't mean that they did anything terrible but there was the the rabbitson and their sisters and there was a a culture the Russian culture. So culture is very important. Um what is is referring to is today is with the that's that's I I I don't I don't really today's you know is all it's all it's all bubbers it's it's like goshri is it's I'm talking about if you want to think about it properly you got to look at the you know 100 years ago and you know and how it was before the war you know so when you when you talk about embar park you know everyone let's They all when they walk the shul and there's a group of your mother has five girls they would like them all to match right I didn't grow up that way I had one sister I have one sister but that whole inavad there was you know that you know we were you dressed properly and not and like mentioned but the whole thing you have to match you know yeah so so the levushim de levushim has taken um you know has become a a big um tya a big tya um you know and I would say that's a Hungarian thing more than um than uh for sure than kabad um other we have to look at I think Stalin is also not into you know clothing and and and fashion of what I could see the stolen car stolen Um yeah, but I was making the comparison between the literature world and the world as far as what do you emphasize the or the gashmas. So in the literature world the t study that you know if you ask a real a real litak how you going to bring msiach if they're if you're concerned about msiach the answer is learn another page gamorra don't don't you ask aid say you know sit together do a by the gar they call you know you ask about you know study a You know, so it's a different thing. It's it's a whole different orientation of should have an aliyah and should bring us all we are all his we've studied so much of his we went through the whole Tanya etc. So um it should help us now Monday with starting baselani tough shingut olive. So just get any kind of safer that you can find. Uh took out uh all Hebrew one which is fine because we will learn the Hebrew text alf many times. It's printed m one second together with the the previous muffin is from our first mimer he said January 1951. Yes Misha. What what did you want to say? Yeah, I was going to say that. Um I know there's there's is that number 14 16? >> No. No, it's not. It's the first number one. >> Mhm. >> Basilani 5711 would be the Hebrew year and English year 1951. The first mimer of the Reba. Okay, I gotta go. Have a good Shabas. Love you all. Take care. Take care. >> Okay. Bye-bye.