#12 Suicide: What does Chasidus suggest to prevent it - Why on Shabbos & Yom Tov,? Ohr lArba 1940

in the mimer the mimer is um oil our boss boycott is a muhammad's lawyer and there we're discussing um the concept of searching for one's own comments to the glide of a candle which represents the lighter than the summer and um i should correct me but we're on page 16 four is that correct yeah 164. that uh your eyes upwards to heaven and see me but who created these from these referring to the creation although creation as we see it now is only a glimpse yes in page 164 ch peric hey so although i i understand you're innocent but the the translation that i use that's used in most english translations is um is the one that i used i mean it's no contradiction yes bring it to be okay let's use that no problem that this idea that the world as we know it now has is brought is is brought into being is being that is only from a mere reflection of hashem's infinite light because if we were to experience utke wafkee avraham god's infinity we wouldn't have a finite world it's impossible so what did hashem do what does hashem what does hashem do he filters his affinity through which is your k bufke through elo kim which is nature or simpson contraction that's the standard explanation that's what he says here avo aquaponics notwithstanding this through this process we know the who who brings the the creation to being there is the me the who god infinity atmos essence when we look at the world we perceive a sun a moon nature but that it's so we perceive a limited god a restricted god but it points to someone who is beyond restrictions who creates and brings to being the restrictions so take for example when you look at a child a student if they're a proper child and a proper student you should be able to tell who their teacher was you could tell from children who the parents are that's the same idea the children and other children they are their own individual they have their individual self but if they're groomed properly raised properly everything else or not properly you could tell faults of the parents or virtues of the parents know we tend to to to to disregard that but the truth is and it's all about the parents that ever wrote in one of the letters that i'm publishing in this upcoming book the doctors never writes to a a doctor and his wife who moved from cincinnati ohio in 1962 to the muncie area so that they would have a kosher until then they were going to a co-ed school and the spring valley torah school opened up in spring valley the muncie area and what and they moved there so that they could give their their their children a a an education that was not co-ed and they wrote to the rebel with a kind of a happiness and they have a response in a letter congratulations i'm very happy for you but what's the but kimu begins at home so the fact that you're not going to a a co-at school that's that's great but if the home is not proper then the fact that they're going to the school is secondary you know and and this has been time tested over and over and over so i'm i'm saying you take this as an example to understand what sydney says what we're learning here you look at the world you look at bri debria and you see a filtered god a filtered energy a limited force says that every year look at the words available upon him but the least at least you know the level of the me of the who shabbat that creates this limitation you realize that this is a result of something far greater which means in terms of creation that true the true ability to create comes from asmus from the essence of utk bufket not from utk bufke the infinite god because as we discussed many times infinity itself is restricted to infinity what we're looking at when we talk about the essence of creation we talk about transcendence known as osmos that's why he writes here octopus of jude kevke where there is no ifs buts wise house definitions it's all one hashem the aim shainee this is the truth but our subject matter is how do we get out of this with him what is the concept of israel who makes out of me it's the restriction on the me the same me of the verse me bora ela who created these this me is part unison of the word mitzrayim mates are me the me the who the osmus is is is is a prisoner his mates are as narrow as confined is restricted we can't access the octopus top of page 165. kabbalistically we learned that me is the level of being uh right understanding beena maisha is expansiveness analysis to understand something beena or may it's not to we when we talk about the restriction the confinement of me who this means shaping us me who bring us mate sarve helen this means that the level of me is restricted and concealed you can't expand you're stuck to the same routine you're doing something good but it's limited the same the same old stuff like my old childhood diary what's special about today it's a regular day tomorrow it's a regular day and the next day it's again a regular day is it a regular day every day every of course it's a regular idea but every day is infused with some life and message mates on me means this idea the the new idea the exciting idea is in captivity and when it's in captivity we become old stale bored and many times we get into trouble because we look for out way out ways out excitement we can't we can't just be the same the same food my father always says you know i can eat a piece of chicken and a piece of bread and a little salad for 35 years well he was groomed that way in europe most people after a week of the same chicken they uh they they they're you know i can't handle it anymore mates on me the the right we need to have a new you you ask your wife why are you making the same supper again give me this up a different kind i'm sick and tired of the same food so from the the most minute aspects of life to the most creative aspects of life there's the concept of mates out of me mates are me that's what's right you wanna know what i means i'm stuck and and you could be stuck in toyota you could be stuck you could see this you could be stuck in in serving hashem the feeling you're stuck because beena is the element and the aspect of of man that's expansive through analysis through study through more information and when that is stuck it's it's like i don't know by sure we're both in creative fields it's like when what new idea can i bring to the to the arts what new idea can i bring to the book you know i i sent out a suggested cover to what to my children to hear their opinion and one of the one of them commented oh it's like the same five book covers that your designer made the last five they're all the same style and i said you're right because they're a series i don't that's what i want i'm fine with it besides that he's not you know he's not the world's uh you know he's a good designer he's clean and the price is right and he's efficient and for me that that everyone knows what works for them right then you have someone who could take a year to design something a happy ear but when it comes out it's masha humashahu that's great that's another another style then the kuda is the point is whatever a person's style is of you need to have vitality music you're a musician to find uh a movement of us of a negan of of a composition that's that's fresh that's new that's when you release the me from its matar mitzrayim when you release your me that was in captivity in through the restriction let's continue inside the isabel is and the previous rabbit brings here from the the lakuta torah not of the altar but there's a safer lakota authored by the holy ariza or said to have been their collection of sayings based on the arizona that rabbi and vital recorded his student okay there's a concept of siddhis right we have a head we have a body what what connects the head in the body the throat the neck the head is expansive the body is more expensive the the neck is tight right it's says kabbalah see this this is the idea there's a mesa where the filtering process that was expansive in the head and will be expansive and the body gets narrowed down in the throat in the neck and when that happens we have a uh a reduction a reduction of the expansiveness of the heads and that we call mason i've got it now let's see how the rabbit develops the idea well you know the idea is that he nailed this hamilton how do middles how do emotions how are most emotions born the lada it's me from the mind you think about something you understand it you develop either a love a hate a fear compassion etc etc to that issue um since mind and emotions are very different essence the essence is very different the manuka one is peaceful menuha rest and the other one is his rakshut his emotionalism excitement the mind because it is tends to be subdued or midis and emotions tend to be mortgage felt regis emotional exciting that's why there needs to be a neck a bottled neck between them for whom it's who and this is what we call mates that have gotten the narrowness of the neck the sham it is there that the flow of intellect is concealed um and transformed me from the dna of it being sequel limo whose middles to the dna of it being now middles let me explain how can it be that intellect should become emotions it's intellect and yet we say that when we understand when we have mojin seiko intellect it develops a meter how how do the two work one is the world of calmness and and and subservience and quietness and stillness etc and one is the world of excitement and emotions feelings the answer is there's a neck process this neck process just like the physical neck the actual features are narrow in the body of a human it takes the seiko and it um it the it causes the shefa the the flow of intellectualism that one gains when one is engaged in understanding something intellectually and it it narrows it down it it filters in a way where what you're left with is the end product you know what the end product is you're innocent it's good to love it's good to to to despise bad it's good to have compassion that's the end product that's not is there that one second unison that is not the bulk of information that led you leads you to believe that all that's in the cycle but if that aspect of mind would be present in the heart you wouldn't be able to have an emotion because it would be overwhelming it would not the the intellect would obscure the feeling and and by the way sometimes that happens why is it that sometimes we don't feel why because we're too smart for ourselves meaning we allow i don't mean it in the colloquial way i mean it the the mind understands the intricacies of the idea and it blocks the feeling the feeling seeks to walk away from the intricacies and be left with the bottom line this is good this is bad therefore i love it or i hate it where is it and how is it that the the the that there is a transfer from somebody the essence of sacral to the mohus amidos it's in it's like the neck there's a process in between where it's watered down filtered down okay let's take now uh some questions or comments from yes so when you think about something for example you're thinking about love love is loving your father so therefore so for now work you know what now i'm going to bring him a cup of coffee before i'm going to fear him yeah so so what do you say so what aspect are you addressing the mayak or the or the lev that goes on in the national algorithm and the uh in the matrix you're saying that that's the place where the bahama is born is that what you're saying right now okay but i i just want to add it's not the bahrain it's not the bottom line behind in the physical world it's the behaving within the brain what yeah yeah from yeah right now what the the the seiku asks you now what the intellect itself asks so what now and and that is the beginning of of of emotion that will be exp experienced in the heart avraham do you follow what were what we're saying yes i understand you're saying pretty much that your emotions are the offspring of your intellect that's one thing we're saying what about this concept of mater hagoron that we've been talking to when it comes to your sacral coating and then it gets constricting your throat and developed and it comes to your heart right and generates emotions right so but you gotta have the ability to feel something yes sometimes it gets stuck in its road and doesn't go it doesn't go any further than that that's right that's when you choke god forbid right so i i had this issue i actually many years ago when i was learning javascript um very deeply and the concept that everything had also does this for the good even if it appears to be difficult even if it appears to be a challenge and so how do i feel if that's true and i understand that and i believe that then how do i feel the pain of somebody who's suffering when intellectually i understand that ultimately it's for the good and what determination did you come to well i was told so so i was told that to understand that the person is suffering also the shrine is suffering with that person and that intellectually i should understand that the string doesn't want to suffer that i don't want the shreema to suffer and so to you have to oh yes may feel that it's necessary for this person to undergo the trial you still have to feel the pain that hakusho destrina feels for having to put the person through that challenge and the the person himself who's suffering through that suffering through that opportunity or tool as it may be that was good right right it's still tough because it does choke it because you know and i wanted to say one other thing just as a comment that i was thinking because i never heard this concept before of me being being associated with bela but we say nuncha bina and me is demantry that's 50. so so so and therefore what what's your point i was just like not that therefore just as a comment that i i had never heard of me associated with beena but it makes it makes perfect sense with the nunchari bina okay um going back to what you're saying and what the sha'a bittakin says there's a very important sifla if you want to follow up on that in volume 36 of the kute secrets of the rebel parcel schmoys it i forget if it's the first second third secret there it's a year in hebrew i believe in hebrew and there he really tackles the whole idea of batachan and if my memory serves me correctly he even goes one step further than the according to the shot of the token and what's classical jewish belief you say that the situation as it is now i trust it will be good right that's what we're talking is right so what does that mean is it good right now or not it's necessary right now it's necessary but is it good right now the answer is no and there ever based on different ideas of siddhis says that there's a deeper level it's not a contradiction the sharapotaku was talking about so so so the predictor says that hashem only sounds good right it's only good oh so so that on those lines on those lines it was a hustler that it's not that it will be good it is good and and that's this is the dilemma again this is the intellectual dilemma of understanding that okay and then so so so first of all as soon as we say the intellectual dilemma it's not a dilemma you know why because intellect itself is a definition how do you expect a defined concept i.e intellect to understand transcendence it can't it can experience it if it allows itself if it puts itself aside but it can't understand it because the confines of intellect are intellect so so the most it can do is as you said earlier what you said earlier is to use ration rational explanations to explain what's going on but at the end of the day it's the bittle and this is the accomplishment of this it's the bitter element that's the only vessel for feeling that it is good now and if if if you're unable to identify with the bitter element in your life you will you you cannot come to the position and to just to say i feel it's good that's the question so when you started to say is sir you were told i was gonna interject by let you finish is i don't want to hear about what you were told i want to hear what you feel of course i want to hear what you were told i'm just saying but you have to then after you hear what someone tells you you have to now process it in your own mind and in your own heart and then you have to ask yourself what do i how do i in other words and to and to work on that it's an avoid it's not the you know doesn't come eating the potatoes you know i'm still working on it no good good we're all working on it no that's it's a very hard it's but but what i'm leaning at is that the working on it is the bittle and that will make it uh mesh that will make it be part of you where what uh even speaking very personally here it's easier for me to do a question for somebody than it is to feel the pain of that person i feel my own pain but i it's very difficult for me to feel the pain of another person i can understand it i can i can try and do anything i can to help that person but i'm missing that emotional attachment okay okay and uh but doesn't that uh isn't it more relevant when someone is closer to you than a stranger that's able to feel people will close your pain more so i mean i i think that the goal the ideal is to feel that for every for everybody i think the goal is to feel equally you know everybody's pain and and i think the people naturally feel that more when people are close to them in their cover that circle of friends uh and family um yeah but you know some people's constitutions are are more cold some people's constitutions are more warm some are more intellectual some are more emotional and i'm just speaking very much personally that that emotional component of attachment to other people when other people are going through an experience is is something that i wish i had more of and what i do there's only one way i mean there's no the ability to do anything can place upon you a feeling that's beyond you and and you get that but in in the natural course one second in the natural course of of things it's only through bitter that you really you you really kind of you really allow hashem in and and that you could feel another person otherwise it's impossible because of the mother says to kamara adam caravates a lot more a person is closer to himself so he thinks about himself his flesh and his needs before someone else comes along siddhas teaches us that that's that's that's true but it's not the way to to really bind with god with hashem in in a way that gives you the ability as you say to feel someone else's pain you have to you have to get rid of any trace of self of yeshus and yes it doesn't mean being about necessarily the the sense that god owes me something that and entitlement you know entitlement goes from you know gross items to very refined things and we are raised and born into entitlement everyone everyone in cultures like russia during stalin's times and hard times entitlement was less why because the culture helped uh dissolve entitlement because you didn't have what to eat and you know where to sleep and they were going to kill you so automatically it itch right but the weapon in the list my mother gave which he said in 1981 and i recall hearing i was in los angeles as a schlieve bach and i remember the rebels said they are a line that rings in my belt till today and the rebels said we see that the same people who had masira's nephesh in russia when they came to the free country america canada australia england their disrobe etc they don't have that self-same sacrifice what happened if and the rabbit says you know why because it wasn't they who they were in their essence it was imposed by the culture i mean i'm paraphrasing because if it was who they are union was about the collective what was that was the conscious matter was the cause yeah right right so that's why when they come to a for the back to the very self and the back to very self it's all about self so sidness and that's that's why the citizens is is is on this con topic daily and thousands of pages it never stops why why you know the the lit fox you know ask this question rabbit gifter asked it to someone to ask the rabbit in different ways why does that ever speak in chapter 36 about making a home for hashem he quotes one mandarin should he make until babaji arabic came along and makes up this madrid roll of judaism sort of a gifter who was a a massive talmud hockham and everything else he questioned his question isn't trey if you know baba just get all bent out of shell that he's an antagonist he's not an antagonist he's the logical question it makes a lot of sense this question what's see this what's baal shemptov shantiv is the whole idea of questions and answers is clipper or is limited is a definition so you're approaching yourself and hashem and tata from only one angle if you find subservience and your bottle then there's room for the amish to come through you and there's only the hebrews if there's the only amish state of god has pain is there for the jew that's suffering that's your friend or your spouse or someone else etc then you can't rest because their pain is your pain they have a cut that's like you have a cut they're down it's like you're down and and and you can't and you can't function and when they're happy and they have a simcha the previous level writes about this too it's your simcha the the saying by hasidim is we are brothers the the balchemt have created this concept of brotherliness anash what does anna stand for which isn't a hasidic term it was but hasidis and hasidim took it to a another level in the sense that it really means we're all one and if we're all one my bread is your bread or better said your bread is my bread my piece of bread is yours as it is mine and he says first it's yours then it's mine and only that way can one feel what you're talking about and if not so not and and that's the average that's the avoider the avoider is to be completely bottle and to realize that everything that is done is good not only will be good it is correct yes you're innocent right talk to people about the way i feel about my disability sometimes they they don't know what to talk to me about because they never have one themselves right so when when i talk to somebody else has a disability i know what they go through because i'm going through it myself i understand it's impossible for me not to feel something because i'm going through it myself right so just like on that level we have to try to go through the pain that people go through and experience it ourselves in order to have empathy for you right and is israel's not disagreeing isa was a saying that he he you know he's not there he he struggles with that and everyone does you know he's not disagreeing he's saying you're right but the question is how do you get there how do by relating to that person the feeling that you struggled with yourself okay so the idea that you struggle yourself means brittle in other words who am i after all who am i that person has a physical disability and i have this type of a disability but you know it so i i agree with you then what's what's the question it's it's but but but but if if tyrus says would not charge us with something we couldn't accomplish that that's that's a no-brainer because otherwise it's an oxymoron to god's to god god doesn't give us more than than we can handle that's part of god that's part of hashem is kind so obviously if he says love your friend as yourself how this is the the question how and the answer is by by us we not seeing ourselves as other than our friend but we are one with our friend happens to be with two bodies we were born in two different set different parents but and that did what i'm saying now is peter klamat bayes and tanya dalton ever asked this question and it gives a very beautiful and important answer is the the bodies are separate but the neshamas are one now you you see you need to think about this need to be meditate on this what does that mean and when you reflect on it do you understand it and then you and every you know and every day and and and and and you you you experience and you'll you'll experience and then you'll do something about it not just lip service but you will start thinking about the other person so it is not easy like isr said no one disagrees but it's attainable it's attainable and people who work on this ultimately are you know nicer people in other words they but it takes the you got you got you gotta you gotta get rid of the the yeshus you gotta get rid of the self and this is easiest easier said than done and this is why we need to fight brain together or a real family is is get is is like what about getting to this getting to this everything else is you know it's like it's like a veneer you know a show okay you like to have some good entertainment you have some good entertainment a good speaker i could like i am a good kid this okay but then there is you know feel feel feeling the pain you know feeling the pain but what i want to say is you're not just feeling the pain feeling the sim card too really feeling really feeling someone simple that their happiness is your happiness how many people how many people one more second how many people have this sickness and illness and yeah this would use the words they can given you know forgiveness they can't tolera they can't tolerate that their friend has nobody else has it yeah good yeah yeah where is that coming from that's coming from the yes the yes exactly so that's the most that's the most coarse form but then there's a very you know you know okay okay so as long as we you know talk about these things for praying about these things and you know we're on a good path you know the altered understood so well that a person a potential bane in the i mean i thought about it last night every time i think about it i'm like wow in other words he knows we're human beings he knows we struggle that's not he doesn't expect perfection from us but he says work that's what work that there's no excuse to to not work on yourself in various ways that's not excusable to not accomplish and have ups and downs that's very normal chapter 27 and tanya talks a lot about that you know you were created that means your entire being and why you're here is to is to work unison says this ability hashem create created him and create right to deal with this issue what does that and now when hashem sees that you're dealing with the issue he says that's it you you're in you're great i there's a disability yeah that we don't know we understand that hashem has his cash bonus and we're not looking you know but but and the same is true without the physical disability with the spouse we choose and the kids we have and the work we're at it's all part of the same idea so initially it's very hard and it's very you know uncomfortable and we don't like it and we scramble here and we scramble there when we do this and we do that at the end of the day when you're ready tired and exhausted and you have no makaya you say maybe maybe god leads the world you know i said after the never passed away gimel thomas i said what's the hardest things for us laboratories is to accept god who took the rabbit god no way who took him uh angels uh souls celestial beings hashem takes a person so now that we're you know that some of it just you know had these issues and all that so you can't accept god you don't like what god did well send them an email send them a fax go to tick-tock i don't know you know do whatever whatever whatever works for you but you got you got to surrender you gotta surrender and when you surrender you become very happy because it's all it's all the right it's all right it's all right and it's not just not it's not just all right because i don't have another answer it's all right because that's the emes the ms is ain't novadoy not the emma says that i have it bad now and one day it will be good it's deeper than that that's what the rabbit says in the secret chat volume 36 of the kurdish based on what you said also the bardichova it is good it's not that it will be good it is good but haki tell me it's good oh so find out how it's good allow god into your life you'll see how it's good ever we've our blamed again but hashem we learned success today you haven't said a word what's your thinking um it's probably not fair for me to for me to chime in at this point but um i've been struggling with um uh i i everything that we've been speaking about i appreciate very much um there was a situation that happened here i found out subsequently uh in the neighborhood on shabbos that um i'm not going to go into any details i don't know that many details but um unfortunately there was an adult father uh in the community not far from not far from uh ish kurdish actually who unfortunately took his own life um um in a particularly disturbing the circumstances it's a very disturbing situation not it's not it's not a normal situation not not that any situation of once taken his life is normal this was this one i i must admit when i heard about it um and some of this open things i was a little bit shooken up and i still am um and as a gaba i mean whatever there's a person in the community is a gabba in particular so i'm you know i've said this many times like my eyes are always very open to be uh trying to have my finger on the pulse of the community people and i'm uh this this one i'm i'm really trying to search for answers how to um how to even be on the lookout for telltale signs of a person who's real an adult in pain you know so we're just kind of used to like teenagers pain but now or young adults in pain but not like adults in general which of course i know that that's that's there's no kiddish here but but how to you know talk you know talking about a father of uh you know five children um like exceptionally disturbing um so why am i why am i bringing this up because we're speaking about everything we're speaking about i'm still sort of like i haven't i've caught up and i'm holding with what we're speaking about but i'm still way back over here thinking to myself like you know there are um there's there's there's probably a lot of people a number of people right now who are were exposed to this what i'm speaking about and who are like like it probably is like really really shaking them up and this the whole aspect of let's say like like it i guess i'm trying to say is it's bringing everything we're talking about into another realm and i'm not sure on a very deep level i'm aware of course but with everything we were speaking about that everything that kurdish barack does in this world is good everything but a little bit more on the um you know the um what's the word on the surface level so to speak i'm trying to make sense of how to [Music] what what can be done to help people what can be done to um i i i i you know when we talk about suicide i just want to say for a moment so um i was speaking with someone in the yesterday about this issue and he's someone who is involved in aware of a lot of issues related to this young people unfortunately taking their own lives and one of these he mentioned to me he said you know he said most of the suicides in the in our communities happen on shabbos he said even at 50 percent happen to happen in shabbos that means most happen and most happen in travis uh this this particular incident i'm speaking about um let me let me back up we're used to the concept concept we used suicide happening in let's say more of a private setting unfortunately what happened this shabbos unfortunately the person took his own life in a public setting uh which is like exceptionally i don't know i'm not going to go into any more details right now uh on in this forum right but um but the the that's one of the reasons that i'm specifically um troubled by this is because um if a younger person especially was witness to this which could have been and uh even another younger person just again the idea of just trying out to i i i i don't have the answers i understand i don't have the answer all i can say is everyone needs to become people's friends confidants friends one one in other words i don't know if it would have stopped the suicide i don't know mental illness is serious yeah you know this is clear that it was mentioned but but i i think there's not a people don't have someone that they could they feel they could talk to who they trust who and and and sometimes the mental illness is such that you can't you can't you can't you can't do it you just feel you're trapped you can't do that but but many times there are it can be done and it wasn't done in other words i'm not talking about talking about really you know like soul to soul one to one you know where you you share with with with someone your pain or your issues and so so you you ask i said it all over and over and the yeshivas and the girls schools and and now you know in the community this person i don't know but yeah did he have like one real friend where he would talk to about everything and anything or not and and and and did one of his friends understand that that was important to become that person to him and give themselves over and that's a that takes a lot of time and energy and willingness and i understand why many wouldn't i i relate to that but that's again at the end of the day there was um a young lady in there 20 or 28 29 who came from a beautiful chabad family out here and um she committed suicide and she she left the no she just she couldn't handle it anymore and they i'm telling they took her to all the best therapists and they work the thing it's it's it's here you know i mean i mean this is what profession you know so sometimes myself what i'm saying is sometimes it's like inevitable unfortunately it's inevitable but there's plenty of times when it's not inevitable and all everyone needs is is a good friend is a confidant to hold their hand to take them to walk with them to take them on a trip and and once they feel your trust uh it it will help it will help so you know it also so i guess what i'm saying is and i'm not the professional it depends on how how how much of mental illness the person has i mean yes sir instead you're a doctor i know if this is your field but very very complex and i i hear what you're saying and i agree with what you're saying i'll tell you personally we had a neighbor who um committed suicide and her husband asked me to to go next door and talk to her and she said all the right things and i asked all the questions that they teach us to ask do you have a plan do you want to hurt yourself and she answered all the questions the way that i would say i don't see that you know there's an emergency here and and she took her life and um in many ways somebody with true depression um is a great actor because they go through life pretending that they're okay and pretending that they're in that they're happy when on the inside they're just in so much pain and they can't express it to somebody so what you're saying is true but also i think that there are cases where it's beyond our ability to help as much as we would want to as much as we try um it's it's a it's a very serious serious illness i know and and and and for people to to do it on shabbos is not a surprise either and non-jews you know the most common time for non-jews to commit suicide is during their holidays really because holidays you they evoke tremendous emotional response this is either a time when i should be and i'm not or i don't have um shabbos is a very hailing time and that's the time of the greatest joy but also the kind could be a time of greatest pain for a person who's struggling with whatever the issue may be if it's it's religious if it's um not religious so it it makes sense that these things happen on shabbos happen and you have to happen and you'll kipper and uh would you say that uh medicine for people with severe you know suicidal uh ideas and thoughts and all that could can help them well you know if they stay on it all their life it's one it's one it's one piece of the puzzle it's one piece of the puzzle medicine is necessary therapy is necessary having supportive environment is necessary um and you know when people are are mamash truly suicidal they need to be watched 24 hours they need to have the means of suicide taken away from them and um you know it's it's it's a whole thing moshe i can talk to you more privately uh about yeah some some things no we have to we have to we have to end with uh with afraid that's right it's a happy thing we don't want to we don't want to end uh with this sorry well forgive me forgive me i wasn't going to bring it up it's all right it's all right it's all right it's all right that's part of our it's part of our our learning together really that's what a sabrina is about having a camera these are the that should be should be connected yeah listen davis that will help that uh people they at the end of the day god it's it's you if someone's not mentally well make them mentally well help them you know uh you know so uh we need to uh be muchasic and at the same time like like moshe and isabel said you know you got to be down to earth and practical not no and moisture is saying you know how do we pick up the signs you know how do we pick up the signs and um that's uh look you know easter said oh so you know whatever i don't have the answers all i know is that we have to engage we have to engage and you know i'm telling you guys it's a try to try but sometimes sometimes sometimes sometimes i say why am i butting in why am i mixing in you know what the person and and and and you know if you have a shot if you have a concern and a suspect you got to get involved and whether they like it or not or they'll think you're a nude or not in a smart way of course but don't stand it you know get involved because at the end it it's too late it's too late so so get involved you know uh and the same is true you know talking about suicide let's talk about people who don't marry the question is how many family members and how many friends and how many rabbis how much was done to get to get this person married you know it's like a question uh i know and i don't want to say as a rabbi you know he said at the end of his life he says i feel guilty i didn't help my brother enough to find a shidduch at the end of the day the person makes their own choice but there is you know as the years go on and someone becomes you know more single and more years and more years and more years it's like we have so much going on so i'm saying i'm saying this idea of engaging and involvement with with people i'll give you another example a guy comes into 770 with a lot of kids and the kids are running around making noise and some of the clever there start chastising it what do you bring your kids to shoe for they're running around like wild animals my father-in-law show was standing there my father-in-law gave it to that person who made that comment he said do you know about his show and bias do you know if he has food to eat on the table maybe this is a little respite that he took the kids out so his wife can sleep so it can have better show and bias you know it's this is the idea that we spoke about earlier you know putting him against and putting yourself in the person's predicament and shoes not seeing just what's outside and the same as with these issues that with the discussing you know so like you said uh engaging trying and really involving ourselves and there are times people don't let you in they don't let you in they put up a block so even then you do your best okay happy to have a great day we'll talk tomorrow we'll learn tomorrow zaikazu bye bye thank you thank you