#1- Rabbi YY Keller: Alter Rebbe's Discourses: History & Recording, Manuscripts -RC Dalfin

welcome to meaningful interviews I'm Kim Dophin RAB Dophin I'm here today with a great kabad scholar a Bena a real Bena someone who has put his time and effort into understanding the TOA on the highest level and it's an honor to be here in Carl Springs Florida we both grew up in CR in Brooklyn and we know each other a long time but Rabbi Keller RAB Keller has written over 20 books on many subjects on many topics and what I find most amazing this is the truth is that much at least what I see and what I relate to is things that most other people don't know you know there are there are regular Yesa the regular masim teachers but there are not many people who know you know Jewish history dabble in Caba um in and within these uh subjects that you bring to the table um a different angle a very interesting angle so that's why I'm very interested in this uh in this interview so I want to begin RAB Keller with asking you the following I know that you have done a lot of research on the balat the alman's um life and in particular his discourses his my that he said for many years and I believe that most laab most have no clue about this you know you learn you dabble a little bit here little there shabas morning morning and M and you go further but I want to ask you is for how many years approximately or if you know exactly did zman the founder of the kabat movement for how many years did he teach and say no as myam please okay so practically since uh he had students he used to give MIM but the earliest MIM that we have is obviously the Tanya which he actually wrote the first uh I would say four uh 39 chapters of the Tanya more specifically chapters 1 to 29 chapter 31 and chapter uh chapters uh 3 3 to 41 altogether 39 chapters uh were ready uh were released by the B uh together with the early version of which uh there's proof that the were written prior to that part of the T and an early version of Thea were released in t what's the English date uh the English date would be uh 1792 thank you at at L right right before Rashana um where most of the Tanya was called Tanya godal the big Tanya and the uh early version of the gach Chua was called Tanya cotton and it came out in a book form at the time or in Contra and pamphlets well it was basically uh a book form meaning written by in pamphlets but but as as a as a running book so to speak um okay so that's about the Tanya now let's talk about the my the discour so the discourses that we have dated in other words dates the earliest date we have appeared in a manuscript is uh from right after he had released this Tanya it happens to be the day of the passing of rabbits and verb's daughter and it could be that it could very much be that that particular discourse was said as a g as a farewell as a farewell to her but in any case it's the only one that we know that the date is written that it's Sam Galia and from then on till till t b that's for 20 complete years we have more or less um discourses now from that year we only have the discourses of let's say of 3 months um now we know that Dal continued writing the Tanya uh and there's the it's from the of the that the AL made the on the T he completed the first part of the T on so apparently the other chapters even if he wrote them technically up to but he had finished saying them reciting them by and he had started on at least that first part of the Tanya he started then that was at the birthday of theed okay so the English date it will be uh 17949 no 17 1789 89 um what tell me if I want to summarize if I'm if I understand you correctly in other words the Al said what we would call today a mimer the was a mimer yes MIM MIM they weren't the first three chapters it said that that he said them on that first but apparently it would seem that the rest were a peric per per chabas mostly shab so here's a question that I've always had goe the AL was appointed by yes as the the leader in R I believe white Russia whatever belusa today in 1777 when Mel left together with Raam kis they left they made Al Ro what did he teach from 1777 to 1789 so we only have uh we we don't have any manuscripts that says okay this is what he wrote we have certain letters from him but other than the letters uh that he wrote that are printed in Kesh uh right we have certain MIM that were verbally that the said he heard from this from this all the way back to the original word from we have a few such but most of it we don't have so my question is oh but do you believe he said my M oh of course there's no no question about it no question about it he taught he taught he uh the question is did anybody write it down not necessarily so why because in those days most did not used to they used would commit it to memory they lived with it the famous story with the vul who was vuler who was a r in vulpa andin in vulpa and he was one of the of the Magid and uh later years uh and he's coming one time to I guess Lea and is looking through his stuff he says what are you looking for later became he was R first in V he took over from his father-in-law yes and he was R there for 20 plus years and then in around 7 about 1820 he became R so go ahead for the story so this he's he's going through his stuff and he's uh looking for said what are you looking for he says maybe you have writings that you wrote down the teachings of the magit so he said no when we learned by the Magid it became one with us it was one entity with our eths we we didn't write it down on paper you have all theas you write down on paper so so okay so he starts with the tan and and then he wrote a Tanya did he have any what we called later who started to write down his my Mor okay so the the first record the first B that the B that contains the earliest means a book yeah book a manuscript that has the earliest contains the earliest dates is the B is now in the the in the Reb's Library it's number 750 this is a b that belonged to the famous of the by the name he was Liv he's described at Great length in the uh so this is a that belonged to him yes and and I don't know if he wrote it down when he was Aid or somebody else that that but he had those pages that that's that's pages that belong to him and what is he recording which year and this is the year which would be since it's the winter of9 1792 1992 so okay now you mentioned me earlier today and this that's why I thought of interv what's interesting is over here he ref this version of those he references the T say Canal as mentioned above in tanot tan and it was written in seems to be written continuation to the which is written in that book oh that's very interesting so you men that the Al has said my every two weeks can you tell me a little bit about that we know that there was a difference between the way the AL recited theim before his arrest in peterborg and afterwards before his arrest 179 initially he used to say strictly on shabas shabas he had the those were those were the times but not every shabas not every shabas okay shabas those were the shabas that he would say those were one we say as I mentioned from T which would be uh 189 1794 1794 we have four manuscripts some from but in starting from shabas we have from every up we have constantly and and we find every two weeks no no no not every two weeks every every shab once a month once a month and this the writes that the brother of the AL who later became yanovich and apparently at this time he still lived in Le together with Al he was actually paid by the Al Al would pay him a certain sum for him to write down the to be a copyist to to be a not just a copyist he he wrote it down he was theer he was the one who would uh I guess repeat it and and write it down he his was the official copy of of of the M okay so why are you mentioning this I'm mentioning this because what happens what happens exactly at that time it seems one of few versions of Tas of and one of them seems to be from from that month yeah so so apparently when when that Tak was made exactly when they should travel when they should also something else that started then we all know there's something called mid mid is where they fund raise for for the B for the Reb's household for their basic needs so for basic needs financial support the mid the mid as we know it which is for for for basic needs of the of the rim and even for buying books that we know uh the first letter that we have from either the or his colleague The Who lat become is from T from 1805 however a earlier version of fundraising that wanted every to contribute to in addition to the contribution that they used to make for the people in Israel the families in Israel was for means people came to as they grew and and uh the locals in Lea couldn't they well they would support them for shabas but for during the week they also needed to somewhere to eat so the AL made a special collection in which he want each to contribute and we know who the fundraiser was it was the famous huh so what is g for means a kitchen and G probably means a it's it's a it's a mini kitchen okay yeah and and the famous letter printed at the end of yes was sent with him but it's not the first there's an earlier letter I believe and he's mentioned he's mentioned over there that's how we know that it was sent with him in the manuscripts it's written oh really his name is WR in the manuscript not the the letter itself the AL usually used to refer to the guy who's carrying the letter as the guy who's going to transmit this this writing and but we have earlier letter that's uh from from him from from that time so by that time there was was already established we also have so someone so your point your point you're making is that the concept of mid um the earlier version of M later it was probably for specifically for the household of of of the well we know the AL was what was the earlier version for what the collection collection that every gave for what purpose the purpose was to support all the people traveling to people travel to somewhere to stay I understand later it became for the wealthy people who paid their own individual thing but for those who didn't I have a question is is would you say that the alter is the one who created the idea of mid or do you know there's historical evidence that it already existed before in other cidic circles it could have existed before and we haveen we have a letter where he tells people what to give and how much to give before before but the AL specifically says we know we have the when Al was arrested and they asked him and Al specifically said that he doesn't accept funds from the so the funds that were raised from the at least those 10 years that we're talking about the was not raised for the benefit of the Al was the people coming to and and eventually in and in the times of the we knew that the was wealthy or or or the would give him money for for this purpose yes and he would distribute a certain amount of money for for the AR that would come so they should have right right okay so but go back now to every two weeks they might so what happened was after pburg now the the last two years I would say well from T it's not so clear uh exactly what what years would but according to my research it seems that definitely after the first uh maybe even the first the right the year right preceding the uh the arrest of the alter 1797 1798 in 1798 theba started saying at least for his sons he would say almost every other shabas and and and but but but definitely by the time that the AL was released from the prison the second time in other words that was 18 that was 18011 and uh in 1801 was 1800 in 1800 he was released he was arrested he was arrested on D KV Second Time Around the Mish says brings a document that ever refers to a document published M that he was arrested on K yes which is in the winter of 1800 and and the fall of 1800 and he was uh 3 weeks later Kim he was released to house arrest from whatever whatever place they were holding him right however he was not allowed to leave peterborg so there were whole bunch of that came to PG including the and even recorded some and it seems that there is a certain that said on an engagement that they actually made in in in inber in Peterburg not in faisa he was released in house arrest house arrest but when did these two week the so what happens was you'll see already towards the end of that summer in summer of 1801 he's already saying every other shabas or actually every shabas he's saying a but these are individual he's not he's not saying it he's saying it individually we know the famous there's a famous which was said in and and and a lot of these we have in the writings we have his explanations on it right so but this is we have also the from way wrote it okay so what's the point of this the point I'm making is that once he came the there's a that begins from the B which is from the win fall of 1801 up to and over there you can see that every two weeks there's a m on average of every two weeks there's a which he said which he said for the public right now he told me something there about his son would write down okay now what happen is so we have from the MIT the earliest that we have that we know for certain from the is that's uh called 1161 in the rebas library and and that seems uh to be M from Little basically from 1897 onwards till 1899 17 179 excuse me from 1797 to 1799 yeah and uh and and then we have another B called 103 which is kind of a continuation it's from 1799 to 1801 then we have from the fall from when the Al from the first shabas that usually did not say there was certain exceptions but on a on a usual case he did not say on on that's interesting yeah because was like a Time him and the aish there was was not time for the public it was very it was very isolated cases in which he did say on and but sh he would say so we have from first was he wrote he wrote before and almost so in any case we have that so we have a lot of from the first that we have from starts in middle of which would be 1802 right and you told me today that the last toward the end towards the end of 1802 I guess in from then onwards ra would write on every TOA that was said Bim he would write in the caption toim in apprentic right we're here with Rabbi y Keller we've had a wonderful discussion about Al's and his conduct with uh saying cidus we will um continue in our second segment um very soon thank you