Rambam Mishneh Torah: Hilchos Teshuvah Chapter 8 - Q & A

the yeshiva.net [Music] another very important component that i want to address is how the rambam describes the those who don't have a fellow can almost so he says in allah base that the soul what does he say in allah base i'm sorry it says that if you're not zaika to this life you get cut off in your wickedness and you lost like a behemoth like an animal and that's karis you're lost like an animal and that's curious okay that's what he says he comes back to this in halakha hey where he says the greatest retribution is that the soul is cut off and it doesn't have a lamb and this is the ultimate loss it gets completely destroyed and it never comes back that's what the rambam the rambam writes now i should say this also created a major controversy because some people said oh the rama doesn't believe in gehenna he doesn't believe that there's any process of cleansing and punishment in the world to come he says the soldiers gets lost and that's it soldiers gets cut off and lost and this was also a reason that some of the rabbis in france wanted to ban say for our mother doesn't believe in gehenna he doesn't mention it he says jerusalem come to alamo but the soul gets cut off it just gets lost that's it laws perished there's no punishment there's no cleansing the ramban de ramban rabbino wrote a fiery letter to the rabbis of france where with fire and brimstone he defends the rambam he says it's not true of course you don't believe that you hand them again read till this triple period gimbal the rambam says that there are those who come to the next world after they pass away and they go through dumb and islam they get judged in the future world according to their sin they get cleansed and then they go to alama the rambam describes that over there the realm of moses says over there that those who don't have a helicopter what does he say he says they get cut off the rambam's languages languages they get judged for their wickedness forever so the ramban says how do you say that doesn't believe in all of this he said it clearly in peri gimbal the ramban says even those who argued with the rambam know that his words are sacred and you can trust them and he says whoever opens up the safer does not shut it this is the famous defense of the rambam on this element as well but there does seem then to be a little contradiction because in hilkish tribal period gimbal he says those who don't know they get cut off they get lost and they're judged for their wickedness forever and ever and ever what do you mean if they're lost so they're not judged are the souls lost forever or they're judged forever here he doesn't even say they're judged here it just sounds like the soul gets cut off and it gets lost forever and everybody contradicts seems what he writes in hook is true and who is triggered as i mentioned then especially in the question and answer segment on perik slichi there are some of farshim who explain that the rambam is may have to read around them a little more carefully if you're getting lost you can't be judged and what they say is based on what is explained in many foreign particularly in the writings of the ariza in the writings of the al-shu in the writings of the shalom in the writings of rabbeno menachem azaria fano in the writings of ayma kamela ultimately every soul has a tikkun every single soul even if it gets judged and judged and charged because as they put it it's nate sir mataya it's a helical if it's a telemall kim if it's a so to speak a fragment of divinity can get lost ultimately the divine must come back to the divine it may have to go through a very very intense process but at the end every soul of so the point that these forum explain is that the soul may have to go through a lot a lot a lot and initially they don't have a helicopter but ultimately they will have a helical map they do describe that there are souls that in the ultimate oil harbor defined as amazing like derive it says some may come back but in different bodies maybe the bodies will be lost some unique roshai but the soul always ultimately ultimately has a tickle and some explain that's why the rambam says they get lost but then he says they're judged forever which is so they're not lost so they're judged is forever in some smarter they're judged for many worlds for many eons but then there's going to be ultimately a new world a new world of then these souls come back they come to their tickle they come to their take until they go through a very very profound process more about this we discussed in the answering quest in the question and answer segment in barracks leash here the rama doesn't even mention the punishments he just mentions that he gets lost the ramban has an essay about reward and punishment called sarah bull and the ramban challenges these words of the realm and he says you can't have a soul that is completely lost that doesn't exist the soul that is completely completely lost even though that's what it sounds from their amba one way of explaining it and reconciling it may be based on what the rambam says that the person is lost like an animal yeah and if you notice he used a very interesting expression in parikshibini in aleph he said he carries the chorus what does it mean the soul that left the body in a lamaza of course it didn't of course it left the body in alum what does he mean perhaps what their emblem is saying is i'm not sure about this i'm just suggesting it as a possibility what the random is saying is how does a person lose a lamborgh it's not so easy to lose alum a person has to sin with full consciousness and volition the person who didn't appear a person who was mistaken the person who did true the person who regretted a person who was forced these are not people who are losing illam hapa losing alam is a serious thing it's a person who basically ceases to live by the telemalikin the ramen described earlier he described the payroll right the people like para or who who were such heinous heinous criminals who uh who who were such evil evil people and they chose to be illegal hashem said i'm not giving them the opportunity to do children so they'll die they'll die without children they'll die without children you're talking about unique situations maybe not always unique but it's not like you know a person makes a mistake they lose their element but essentially it means a person who lost their telemetry they're not operating anymore with the telemalikum with the nephesh they're operating on a shamal level they're operating basically as beasts as animals the law of the jungle dictates might prevails uh over right there's no moral law there's no moral boundaries they lose their divinity they lose what makes humans humans that moral sensitivity they they they live like a behemoth they live like a behemoth and he says so they die like animals they die like animals he says that soul that's separated from the goof in alam hazel in other words that soul that left them that never that left them it gets cut off and as the rambam says here they get completely cut off so their entire life their entire consciousness there's nothing that remains of it it's just dead another person who lived with their nephesh with their tourism effort that nephesh is in the everybody began in this world because they were living with hashem with with truth in this world and then they go to haba but by then they were completely divorced so there's nothing left however the truth is that every jew call yesterday every jew has a soul somewhere even if it's deeply deeply deeply hidden and it was not in his or her consciousness and it did not come out yeah that can't get lost can't get lost says comes from the core so to speak of hashem that can't get lost there's goodness over there but it's completely not conscious it's not it's completely not on the floor so that element is not even addressing it that he addressed in perigeum perigemel he addressed that that soul will go through a lot a lot of cleansing because of how it was tarnished and then after the aluminum it will have its tikkun as explained in sparta here the ramam is just addressing the component of that this person's life the way they lived that soul there's no alamo but that soul is is just it's not zoka to this life and it's lost forever there is an element of the light of their soul which they didn't live with it was not part of their consciousness that goes through various processes until it will reach its ultimate its ultimate uh tikkun there's a beautiful whole stickle of representation on this takanas of lublin where he discusses at length this process the whole section and aim at kamela rap naftali hair it's a student of the bishwell shrub one of the students of the arizona a whole section of panu about this based on the writings of the arizona and a great compilation of many of the ideas was made by the lubavitcher in a letter that he wrote to somebody in an essay that he published in 1945 about this which was published in his letters in his egress volume one i think a 10 or 20 10 or 15 page essay with all of the footnotes and references to explain the of the ghazal and the rishonim and the mccobolum in this area even though from the rambam he's not so explicit and he's not so clear about many of these details i should also add that this is talking about a soul that is really divine it's a helical kami mal you could say it's nate sir mattoya masaya delhi spoiler you also have sometimes people whose criminal whose sins whose acts of barbarity sadism brutality selfishness were so so severe talking about the stones of the world the hitlers of the world and also people of lower degrees of evil killers murderers blood thirsty terrorists etc and here the rambam is perhaps saying it very literally very literally there they get punished and they're lost their souls their souls perish whatever type of soul there is and it's tragic that a human being a human being who is carved in god's image should be able to descend to such evil but there's also comfort in knowing that the perpetrators of 9 11 don't have the same faith like the victims of 9 11 would be horrendous to consider that the perpetrators of the holocaust and the victims of the holocaust end up with the same ultimate fate no they don't end up with the same ultimate fate there are souls that get punished and punished very severely and as the rambam says are lost but perhaps there are other souls called australia's ultimately receive a tikkun i just think that's also worthwhile to make that distinction that's also brought in the swarm of kamela and ramefano and ariza and others forum that i mentioned earlier this class is brought to you by the yeshiva.net please help us continue the classes make even a small contribution at www.theyoshiva.net donate