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Rabbis Henkin, Gifter & Kotler, Ezras Torah org - R' Avraham Shmuel Levine #4- RC Dalfin
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This is the fourth part in the
meaningful interviews series with Rabbi
Arammul Lavine Harav Lavine who lives
today in Tel Aviv. He was formerly uh
the secretary to the
Akuronim with Feinstein of Sim Elberg
and uh in addition to that he had a
connection and he he learned and uh was
friendly with Harav Hagen Rabo Henin.
This is the fourth part. So please Rabbi
Lavine please continue with whatever you
would like to say. And first of all, I'd
like to just add or maybe correct
something that I said in the first
interview because
to
your
lis I said that my grandfather sent my
father to saying that although I'm not
sure you'll be a lump but I know you'll
be ash and people could interpret this
as lus is more important than being
I just like to add if you take a look at
the base theor over there that is more
important than being alone. Okay, number
one. Thank you. Number two, I want to
add also to the when I spoke about my
grandfather and his sh is I don't know
if I
mentioned but uh I would like to add
well you said your grandfather did not
come from home. Right. Right. Right? And
in fact he learned in right so he was a
literature right but I want to prove how
how
even a literature right who was who
doesn't hold up right is but from the
reban as a young boy as a young ber he
held tremendously our reb yes and this
is the following story so he came to
America no no but he he knew My father.
My grandfather. Yeah. No, no, I'm going
to let me hear.
Like I said, my father my grandfather
was arrived in three different cities in
Russia. Yes. And one of those was Marupo
which was under the jurisdiction of
Reblik was the chief rabbi
and he was in charge of the cities and
surrounding around and Maripool was one
of them. Huh? Manipul which has been
bombed. It's been in the news a lot.
Yes. So my grandfather was very friendly
with Rev Levy because from time to time
he would come to Relev's house to
discuss Shilus and all kinds of communal
affairs and and uh Reblik would also
when he would visit the surrounding
areas which he was under his
jurisdiction he would also come to my
grandfather's house. Sure. Right. Yeah.
Okay.
So my father told me that once there was
a a bris in the sh of my grandfather
which happened to be there and the
balabris was the my grandfather to be
sand. Yeah. He honored him with son and
he reject he's the rabbi. Yes. And he
reject and we know the great theus of
being a santic. Yes. He rejected it. He
said, "Reblavic is here. You should
honor Reblavic." Wow. That's number one.
Number two, my father told me that one
time when my grandfather came back from
a visit to
Relevik's house, he said, "I think we
should," my father had a sister Lev and
he came back from from house and he
said, "I think we should think
about for for the rebel. Yes. That shows
you that if he said so, that means he
probably spoke with him and learning and
he saw what kind
of what kind of going it was, right? It
was that's a beautiful thing. That's
that's what but it never ended up
happening.
Okay. Okay. So now let's go back to
Rabbi Henin. Yes. So tell me about in
general about Rabbi Henin's, you know,
approach. Um I think you I remember you
telling me that even when it was blind
he was he had a thing about not making
kesha. Yeah. Yes. Can you tell tell us
about that please? Yes.
Yes. I like I said I've learned with
maker for three years from 10 to 12
every day. Yes. Gamarra. Yeah. Kamar
depended on his he was already if we
could if he could learn something deep I
would learn.
Oh not just right but if I see that it
was then we would learn. Uhhuh. The
stories of the Yeah. So uh Okay. So one
time I I when I came in to to learn with
him this was at his house. Yes. Yes.
Where he lived in the Lower East Side,
right? in one of the in one of the in on
the project at Grand Street. Grand
Street. I think it was 385 Grand Street.
Okay. And uh I walk in and he says,
"Listen, I want to write a mimer in
aisical journal that was edited by Rabbi
Albert. All the rabbis would would write
all the send in their right and their
things." Yeah. So he says, "I want to
write
I want to write a something an article.
I mean, I'll dictate to you and you you
write and give it over to Rabbi. And he
starts off like
[Music]
this. I'm not going to I don't remember
exactly the the words. I mean, you can
take a look in this. It's over there,
but translate it in English. Okay. And
he says and he says like this that since
the before Mus but you didn't say no you
have this he heard
I thought you were going to translate he
heard that people in in in yeshivas
minigra is a a bad custom a bad custom
he wrote minigra he wrote that is a bad
custom to eat before the blowing of the
chauffeur called kas mushv the obl
obligatory Right.
Right. And he says that the reason that
they do and this is a it's a biblical
and he says that since the reason that
is given for this why they eat is
because you're not supposed to
fast and the is very long. Therefore,
they make it and they eat and and then
they hear the So, so but since it's a
mitzvah, the rice say you're not
supposed to eat before me. So, the rice
maybe but not you know to make the whole
thing and
right so they just they just take a
little bit because you're not supposed
to stuff yourself and have a full meal.
So he says that if you you have to make
a dish and you feel you have to eat
better it's better that you eat after
the that they blow
in while you're standing I you're going
to say that you're not allowed to speak
out after the so he says it's better to
speak out after
So it's better to to right then than
than to do it before mix with Okay. So I
wrote that and I sent it to Rabbi
Elbert. Two weeks later a letter comes
to Rabbi
Henin said
confidential and it's from Rabbi Gifter
in
tells and of the the tellib in
Cleveland. Yeah. And since I served as
the eyes of Reb Hanken since he was
semi-blind and I would read everything
that would come to him. I would read and
I would give it open to him. Right? So I
opened up the letter and he says there
it was I'm not going to go into I don't
remember exact words but what I do
remember he says like
this you'll translate. Yeah.
I I was astonished.
how your how your pen um expressed
itself. The honorable goan, the genius
of
Torah, he slanders the
yeshivasa. Of course, I'm sure you
know that all the and all the yeshivas
they eat before kas and did so and he
mentioned the whole whole list of of
rashas of rashas that do so and uh and I
was surprised and I was shocked that you
said and I read this
to it bothered him extremely it bothered
he was emotionally distressed of
And he he he it was pave he felt miss p
him very much and I think that if I
would have kn like an insult to him.
Yeah. I think if I would have known how
he would have reacted the way you would
have not read it to him. Maybe I
wouldn't have read because it was too at
his age and his condition it was too too
stressful. Right. Right. Exactly. But he
says to me write it back. I and Gimbo I
think
Hul were there was a discussion about
two tano that they argued about a
certain certain issue and at one point
the I
think in the it says that
says I have priority they left me uh my
they gave me the authority
to to to uh to issue this over you,
right? Give it give it back to I wrote
back to it was very short, right? And
basically he's telling him I that I'm a
po and I have a right to make and I know
what you do. So and that you you guys
are just Russ. Yeah. So he says so he
says to me so I wrote it back I wrote
him back and I sent him back this letter
to Rabbi Gifter. Rabbi Gifter uh two
weeks later another confidential letter
comes this was no this wasn't so
confidential six pages though the first
one was a page a page and a half this
was six pages and he says he apologized
he says I didn't mean
two insult to insult you right
to I just wanted to take up and you know
to defend those who do so right and then
he says that I went into pil with Rabbi
Stein Rabstein there was a mash I think.
Yeah. In tells and we spoke and he says
over
this. Okay. So so so one second from his
six page
letter that that they're right. Yeah.
Yeah. But but but but yeah okay. Yeah.
That Yeah. But but but ever since then I
think if you take a look in the story
calendars of the story they give
out you'll see Mwell who edited the the
the calendar he puts in by when he
speaks
about what you're supposed to do puts in
parentheses that Hanken holds you
shouldn't eat before okay but the
interesting part is
this I asked them I
myself thought to myself he mentioned
here a list of
good yeah this one this so I I was
wondering why they didn't know this that
you're this so I asked him I said you
know he mentioned all these at first he
thought that I was on their side because
I was defending him so he knew so he
says what's the customab so I said to
him about which Kash would think about
even before kiss. was very happy and
then he says to me like this you asked
me
about let me tell you this there was a R
here Rabbi Goldberg I
think so Rabbi Goldberg here on the east
side in the east side of Rabbi Goldberg
a rabbi yeah he once came to me and he
asked me
if that
if they you spend a lot of time in the
repetition
Is it considered a heapsic or not? So I
said it's a heapsic. Two weeks later he
comes back to me and he says he was in
Lakewood for a weekend. He was baron
cutler. He discussed this with Cutler.
Cutler said it's not a sick. So I told
him that Rob Hen says it's a heck. So
Ron Cutler says to me if Hen says it's a
heck then I also bleeded what Hanken
says.
So he says to me
like he knows he was great in pilp but
in he would he would side with my
opinion and he added
if would know that I to to eat before he
would agree he would agree and they
wouldn't need to they wouldn't and the
the they would stop that. They would
stop that. Yeah. That's that's a very
interesting story. That's what So Ezra T
was started in the early 1900s, right?
As a story started the same year that
was born 1902. Yeah. And it was founded
by the at that time. Yes. Yes. And they
and originally it was founded only
for sat and learned the whole day didn't
have
a income. So they so they raised money
and they said so they established as a
story. Now as a story is like a baby of
Abnus. So whatever wherever Abdulus
Abundan went as a story went along with
him. So for instance as a when moved to
the United States and was on East
Broadway at first not in East Broadway
on Broadway before it came to East
Broadway it was on Broadway and so St
had a room there too. When it came to
East
Broadway side they had a room it was as
a story was upstairs and was downstairs.
So it was like a subordinate
organization of
aud did did it a branch did did its um
policy as far as funding others besides
uh terror scholars uh did change in Yes.
Yes. In what way? Yes. In what way?
Everybody that came anybody that came
and asked for anyone that came even if
he wasn't Right. Right. As long as he
had a he had a a probation, a letter of
recommendation. Yes. In other words, a
regular person in in the front
community. Yes. When he's for let's say
Yeah. would come to him would come to
and with and then there would be a
meeting between the board how much they
give him if they give him bl how much
they give him and then I would have to
implement the decision of I made the
checks. Uhhuh. And and who was on the
board? Well, Rabbi, when I was I don't
remember before that, but when I was
there, the president was Rabbi with the
Rif who was the of the Yes. And he was
from Camden, New Jersey. Camden, New
Jersey. He was the rabbit. He was a real
literature. Yeah. Right. And then his
son-in-law took over, Rabbi Ginger.
Rabbi Gettinger. And I think they one of
them in North Carolina today still
officially runs it. I don't know. I
spoke to them could be. Yeah. Then they
had Rabbi Margolan was the man. There
were two men there. Rabbi Marggoan and
Rabbi Mozinski. He was in the Vatican.
In the Vatican Razinski. Yeah. And Rafen
was well he was the he was the you know
so he was the fi he was the final say.
Is that right? The final say. Yes.
Right. Yes. So, so was it his decision
to open it up to other people? Could be.
I think
someh when I came it was it was already
open to other I don't know what happened
before. Now, let me ask you um did you
obser were
also that benefited from this
organization? Definitely. This wasn't
just for Yes, definitely. I'd like to
tell everybody everybody also. Yes. Yes.
So, you have
I'm not going to say names. Yeah.
But big names. And And what was the
average uh Nina? What was the average
amount that they gave? $1,000? $5,000?
No, those No, I think $100. $100 in
those days. That was You see, let me
tell you something interesting.
A lot
of most of the bakos the requests from
Israel came from Scala and for to for a
because you saw there's this yeah for an
apartment for apartments and that was so
at that was the main request. So one
time the board decided why do we have to
always give them$undred $100 and let's
establish as a story there. Oh and
that's the the way as the story. Oh yes
that's that's the neighborhood Ezra.
Yes. Yes. And then they would give out
deer for almost half price rice. I
didn't know that. Yes. And the first
vineyard that was erected was the first
building under the name of Yeah. Yeah.
Uhhuh. That was the I was part of the
those one more question about um how
many children did he have?
Three. I know for sure. I think four.
Were were any of them, you know, even
close to
his personality and knowledge?
Well, they didn't
pursue Torah life like
like they were I think
Margaret he had a son who was a
professor. Yes. Yes. Where here in
Jerusalem? I don't know. He here his his
grandchild in Yeah.
is was used to he's the one that you
could say succeeded his right his but
his father was the professor I think so
I'm not sure but it was when he made
aliyah that's when I took over started
learning
uh when when Yehuda Yehud Yehuda used to
learn I understand and then he made
aliyah and he needed somebody to be with
and I okay and we were very very close
mhm even here while in the country in
the while you came when you came here.
No, I said my wife Henin Hanken was You
were very very close. Very close. Very
warm relationship. When did his wife
pass away? Many years before. Before my
before I came. Okay.