Telling It How It Is: Understanding the Heartbeat of Our Generation

the yeshiva.net okay the following podcast I got the honor of sitting down with Rob by YY Jacobson and we talked about amazing amazing amount of topics we talked some of it my favorite was marriage we talked about the auna crisis we talked about spirituality the mental health field in general so many things we talked about he is a wealth a wealth of wisdom and just such an amazing amazing person it was an amazing podcast just a little explanation this uh this is in honor of perm this this sweatshirt that I'm wearing we be having a huge sober perm party so I am just uh advertising it on my sweatshirt that's the explanation from the sweatshirt please like And subscribe if you're on YouTube and hope you enjoy as much I hello and welcome to the brainstorm podcast and now your host Sonny Pearlman thank you so much for coming thank you so much for coming and I'm going to Dive Right In Dive Right In we do the intro later so you don't have to you don't have to listen to all the amazing accolades about yourself um but I am very very excited and I will tell you that it's been a while since I've been trying to to coordinate getting you here and the first time I called you and this is the first time I called you was I listened I was on the way to Brooklyn and I was listening to your podcast with mayor K cinon right and I've had him on my podcast also I think I was listening to it because I was about to have him on my podcast so I picked a podcast and in the podcast you told a story that you went to adinin Stein alts and to ask him some questions in life I don't know if you remember I could remind you you could tell the story if you want and I was driving in the car and just balling it wasn't even so emotional but something about what you were saying was touching me so strong even like the timeline about it should I remind you the story CU okay so the story was you went to him and you asked him for advice first of all advice is hilarious cuz he said after 20 5 years you're going to look at yourself and you're going to see a dead mouthpiece I don't know if that was exactly said it right that I remember and you're gonna and you're just going to realize that you're a a shadow of your was either a shadow of your of yourself I'm trying to remember this this is this like two years ago maybe I listened to this but it was you're going to be a shadow or a mirror image of this self that you built but it's not going to be you it'll just be a guy who could just spit out great ties and like you know make a great lecture on a whim and even the example he gave really touched me because you he the example was that you get to a place where you'll be able to make a lecture you won't even need to know what the lecture is about you just walk up and you just see the name this once happened to me I I was supposed to I someone canceled a lecture and they said you take over his lecture and I walked up there and they're like and then I looked at the Playbook like what is this lecture about and then I gave the lecture and I thought of this story um so what really touched me what really first of all I was amazed because I felt it was very vulnerable on your part that you were sharing that experience but what really touched me is that I have been doing this for a really long time and it's a constant constant struggle to remain true to myself and to be not try to be what everybody else is making me and what I'm telling everybody is amazing and what I loved about it is that you that everybody who gets to a place like you um the world just thinks you're perfect they just they they have to do that for some reason call Rabbi itis it's like you have to make them into like some sort of God figure and you when you're talking about you breaking that image of of this invincible it's it's you talking about an existential struggle where you have to like fight to remain alive and you anyway why were you boring that was I was boring because I I felt that was my struggle like I was like yes yes and I and I felt like I didn't Stein out through you to me was telling me that the fight is all right and it's all right to that you feel this way and that you're slowly dying and you have to fight to stay alive and it's not going to be easy and it's not the natural course of things to just get better and better because you're making better and better lectures or opening better and better programs so it felt to me like I had permission and somebody saw me it was coming from a very almost like a negative place but to me it was such comfort and I was crying so anyway I don't know what the question is in there but that's when I called you to to have you on the podcast like I was like I I was like I need to have the podcast and so the first thing I wanted to right off the bat is how do you deal with this struggle of maintain aing your own vulnerability your own self who you are while the world is looking going wow wow and Truth is just amazing amazing accomplishments you've done that like even I want to do it I have to hold myself back but I'm saying um but like how do you how do you do it h what is what is your experience with this and is this something that you think about or was it something you just talked about two years ago on a podcast that knocked me off my feet even though I was driving yeah well how I deal with it I've been on the other side I understood very well what he meant um it is so easy it is so easy to fall in to that very tempting trap and the trap is the accolades the validation the Celebrity Status the compliments the standing ovations the invitations the fake Glory and Honor that's the Trap it's a trap because it's miserable because none of it is authentic it's a joke for a broken ego it does the job for like five minutes but it's an addiction like any other addiction it's basically a self that doesn't really exist it's a cup that has a hole and you're trying to fill the cup with water and that's what all these compliments do there's a hole inside and we pour or I pour we pour pour po po po feel so good feel so good there's nothing left it's just leaking out a minute later the next day the next hour I need more and more and more and more because there's an essential Brokenness and the only substitute for that is authenticity the only substitute for that is true identity the only substitute for that is humility vulnerability authenticity alignment I mean if we want to if we want to you know take the the the spiritual understanding of it you know the way the Jewish Mystics and the great Giants of Jewish spirituality articulated it is whenever I'm investing to build my ego I'm investing in a counterfeit reality I'm investing in a ponai scheme I could put $20 billion in your into your ponai scheme as we all know the story with a fellow Jew right it's nothing it's worthless so I can get a th000 comments I can have 6 million likes I can have 300 million followers I don't but I can have 300 million followers it's nice it's kmak it feels good for seven minutes right maybe 7 hours it pays the bills which is always good yeah but it's nothing it actually makes one and certainly me more miserable because it only proves the lack of substance the the lack of authenticity and uh it's really a substitute for Real Love For Real connection for real attachment and I'm investing in a self that doesn't really exist I'm ex I'm investing in a self that has developed existence based on a copy mechanism and a way of surviving in a world without real attachment without real connection without real truth and as a result of that I constantly have to resurrect it how do you keep a dead man alive how you have to resurrect him every single second that's exactly what the ego looks like it's fragile it's non-existent so every day I need to keep it alive again and again so tomorrow I need more the next day I need more the next day I need more but internally like in The Picture of Dorian Gray there's an an emptiness a void that I think rabinin was addressing yeah due to my life and my life story I am so well aware of it and I have to make a choice not every day every hour every minute in which space I'm going to live if I get up to give a speech and there's 3,000 people there 2,000 people or 50 people and they're enjoying and they love it and they applaud me and they tell me some very very nice things I need to make a choice in which space am I going to live will I extricate my soul from the space of authenticity and fall into the Trap of Celebrity Status which is feeding something that doesn't exist with compliments that are meaningless or will I choose to remain human simple authentic connected attached will I be able to watch the voices inside of me which are really trauma voices right that say go into that trap it's going to feel so good become a God for the next hour why not become a pharaoh become a demigod become a Cleopatra become a fictional figure they believe it you start believing it right right it's the story of of hamon I mean everyone is bowing down to him you start believing the people they can't all be stupid it can't be that all these people are so stupid they're all bowing down to H he started to believe the story that's his tragedy and then there was one old Jew by the name of M who was not bowing down to him and why did H get so upset the whole world is bowing down to you there's one Al an old Jew with a long beard with glasses looking into his gamar and when he sees you he looks back down and he doesn't bow down to you what's the big deal the answer is of course M triggered every fiber in Hon's being cuz H knew he's the only one who got it right everyone else is living in their trauma everyone else is living with their copy mechanisms so this story Mar is actually the only one who hasn't sold his soul to the devil or to stupidity H was was intelligent he saw that look and he knew he's the guy who's telling the truth so it triggered him suddenly he say I got to kill him I got to kill his wife I got to kill his whole nation why cuz this old man didn't bow down to you of course he's the only one saying the truth wow do you I wonder if anybody has ever analyzed the perm story just in the psyche just as as as it was a marshal to of psyche the entire thing course the Milla is a mush for the psyche I mean it seems like it but every L every line is a psychological story every line of it it's a wild story so Den Stein outs was the morai in your story I don't mean to make you no no dinstein outs actually I respected him tremendously yeah I asked him advice about a lot of personal things I traveled to Israel to speak to him and uh this was a Priceless piece of advice can't get this from a lot of people this type of advice and he I still remember I still remember you know when he just he he was he had a dramatic way of describing things you know he had his English was he had a good English but he was an Israeli he was an Israeli so his English you know was an Israeli English but he would just and for some reason I was talking to him in Hebrew and he was talking to to me in English I think he he probably also enjoyed talking in English and he was describing to me you know he was describing to me he was giving me the trajectory of my career so to speak and he said I I I this is 20 25 years ago so I was just beginning my public speaking career right and I was in Israel I was addressing a National Convention of Jewish Women in Israel in the convention center B Jerusalem there were 5,000 women right all the lights were on me so I couldn't see anybody and I got to stand Ovation 5,000 women and it felt good and uh I just spoke to him about the whole topic the theme you know that interplay between your private life your public life the way people see you who you are what I should protect myself from and he said he said you're doing well you're going to become better and at some point you're going to stop preparing because there will be no need for it he says now you probably prepare and you invest time and the stories the jokes and the messages and ideas and you research you take it seriously but at some point it's like what do you want marriage okay you'll open the filing cabinet you know this 20 lectures for marriage you know you'll take out the right one then next 45 minutes later an hour later an hour and a half later you're done you get your applause you get your check everybody's happy they're happy they had an entertaining evening you're happy you made your money you made your your stamp you whatever you like it you have you're fulfilled and then he said after 25 years one one day I still remember he says one day you'll wake up he whispered one day you'll wake up and you'll look in the mirror and you will see that there's uh nobody there there's nobody there it's dead all you'll see is a mouthpiece the mouthpiece is the only thing that will be existing the mouthpiece will have conquered the totality of your being and he says and at that moment you will know that you have died you have succeeded to die and he finished that was his advice he didn't he didn't have this was his advice well was he right 25 years later I asked him I said how do I avoid that death okay and he said he said two things that I recall corre he said one thing is never stop learning and challenging yourself in other words don't just share things that you know share things that you're working on share things that surprised you and shacked you today share the struggles that you're dealing with today share your own growth if your life will become boring then all you'll be communicating are things that you discovered 25 years ago if you continue to learn and challenge yourself continue to stimulate yourself continue to deal with your own wounds and coping mechanisms he said then there will be a real person a fresh person who's growing the second thing he said is surround yourself with a few individuals who couldn't care less about your public Persona and your connection to them should be completely completely raw vulnerable and authentic giving and getting feedback of people who have that exclusive relationship he says you just need a few people like that in your life but those are the people who keep you anchored in reality that's where real relationship that's why we get a wife and kids exactly that's what I'm tell my wife like I'm doing a big lecture tonight we're doing something big it's like are you going to be home for dinner exactly what's happening and after dinner the garbage has to be taken out it's not about dinner it's about the garbage after only want you home for dinner so you can take out the garbage I once heard something very powerful from the laab this a fascinating Insight He was discussing AR rambam the book of my manties the laws of yum Kipper and my manes goes through the whole system of what yum KRA looked like in the times of the Holy Temple and it was a very intense day for the Kong for the high priest seven days before he left home he started to prepare a day before the intensity has reached its momentum and then came you know the day of atonement right this was the day of cleansing and healing and fixing the relationships and eliminating and transforming mistakes and transgressions it's the considered the Hol day in the Jewish calendar and the high priest was was the man you he was the hero who was carrying it all and he basically did almost everything besides a few things that he had some assistance for and my man goes through the whole Pro I mean he went to the Mikvah five times during that day he had to wash his hands and feet you know 10 times during the day he changed from one set of garments to another set of garments back and forth he went into the holy of holies and ignited the incense I mean the offerings that were done there that were never done it goes through the entire process right and then he says the day finishes and he removes the golden garment the golden vestments that the high priest always dawned and he puts on his regular clothes and basically the day is over but then the rambam adds two words he leaves the temple and he goes back home and the Reb asked a question why is that detail inserted into the laws of yum Kipper is that a law I mean obviously the night is over you worked hard probably he's going to go where should he go after y Kip the pizza shop should go play pool where should he go right and what if he wanted to stay in the B mik what if he wanted to visit his mom what if he wanted to visit his sister what if you wanted to sit in the base medish and learn for two hours I mean he's allow him right like I understand he went home I mean usually went home you know it's night he needs to relax he needs to eat he's been fasting he's been working hard but he puts that into the laws of kipper and the rebis said something very powerful he said this is a law the law is that after you come out of the holy of holies and after you've reached the greatest Heights do you know how to go home do you know how to go home back to your wife and children do you know how to be a normal person and stand in the kitchen because very often when this high priest comes home what does his wife say oh was this a hard day I don't really like this job of yours do me a favor you know what this house is a mess can you fill up the dishwasher and I need yank to be has had a bath two weeks go give her a bath and he's like I was in the holy of holies I atone for the whole world I heal the whole world I should be giving baths I should be taking out the garbage come on but if he cannot do that that means the Reb said is Yim Kipper was an ego trip it was a narcissistic ego trip in fact rebba said this is the most important law of yum Kipper that's the most important one that's the most how do you know you were in the holy of holies for real if you can go home if you can't go home it means it's not integrated there's no Fusion Heaven is also a form of escapism Heaven is also a copy mechanism your copy mechanism has to happens to be holy and spiritual okay it's better than other copy mechanisms but it's still you're disengaged you're not fully present you're not embodying the truth you're not embodied so yeah so that that that's that's really you say do we get married I think that's a major part of a relationship a major part of a relationship is relationship that's not based on anything external and any projection but it's based on your most uh fragile and vulnerable spaces right that's what a relationship is a real relationship there something that I really really loved about the rabba that not is not talked about a lot I think is that nobody really knew so much about what would happened in his house you just go to his house and be with his wife I don't know if he just had a he had a separate life that this this this is very very true you're touching on a very very uh uh I think sensitive and uh true point the Reb never had children right he was married to his wife reiton kka for 59 years she passed away right before their she passed away before their 60th wedding anniversary the next year would have been their 60th wedding anniversy and it's interesting usually a RAB especially of such magnitude right shabas meals could be a major part of the of the vibe yeah of the experience in other cidic circles they have the main Tish on Friday night right um the RAB both the Friday night meal the shabas Day meal for for 60 years he ate only with his wife there was not one other person there there was not one other person there Friday night is he two people you know he's the one who initiated thousands of kab houses each one with guests between 20 or 300 people right PES saders from Nepal to Hawaii to Alaska to Peru to the Congo to Vietnam where tens of thousand maybe hundreds of thousand millions of Jews have assaded today in Israel in the world because of the Reb right but his say there was two people him and his wife wild him and his wife two people at the same who does a s with two people you know after his wife passed away his seder consisted of one person so he took the B like very seriously yeah that's and I thought when I was growing up I thought about it was inter the devil would come out Friday night 77 after daving he would stay and learn a little bit actually not a little bit a few hours and then he would walk home reboso didn't like an Entourage so he would walk home alone late and Friday night shabas day and it was just he went to his home and I think also his wife provided something this is just my speculation I don't know I think she provided something very sacred and special for him because the reab by Nature was extremely extremely if I could say so introverted truly introverted meaning being a Reb was not part of the trajectory of his life and it wasn't I think in his plans he was a very very private private person very intimate person he once wrote to somebody in 1949 I don't have a skill for public activism he wrote this to Rabbi Yakov Lando the rabbi of benra he says you do I don't now for somebody who didn't have a skill for public activism you have to say he didn't do bad for himself right so the truth is that this entire public Persona of was very contrary to his Nature by Nature he was extremely reserved he wasn't very social he was very kind and he could connect very deeply to people but he wasn't the social type schmoozer completely not very very private like I heard from people before he became a rebba like nobody knew him he was clandestine and even afterwards I could see do you relate to that part of the rebba I'm curious I'm saying yourself I relate to that I really want to run away always like everything I'm doing it makes s like I feel like an introvert my whole life and I see other people that are much more talented at being out there in The Talented at it yeah and I would always rather go home if you would have a choice to spend the night going to a or Mitzvah or hanging out with people or you could just lack yourself up in your bedroom cuddle yourself up under the blanket I mean you know probably the choice you would have this amazing you know there's a word you you ever heard the word fomo fear of missing out there's another word called Jomo which is joy of missing out nice and I heard it it made my day I like that it's not it's the M the opposite like the joy okay I want to change topics a little bit because I do have a couple of things I want to cover and I feel like I I want to talk to you for five hours because you are someone I really really respect in terms of your opinion on things so I know I said I'm going to leave the accolades for later but um the topic I want to talk you is a much more broad topic because I'm very deeply in the mental health world and the addiction world and the question I'm having and it feels like I'm uh almost off the off the path with this question is the world keeps seeming at least in in terms of mental health keeps seeming to get worse and worse and worse and I to the point where I just saw a statistic that 41% of children are in America are diagnosed with mental health disorder um I have so many other statistics but I'm not going to go through all statistics it just seems to be getting worse and worse and in my own experience it's the phone calls do not stop and I'm sure you're experiencing the same thing it's constant constant and it's it's hard it's hard for me and I'm glad I have a basite to go to and get my uh you know my home fixed but I'm it's constantly this and what's driving me a little crazy is that we have more therapy and more therapeutic help than ever for in history it's it never existed in history and more Comfort than ever before in history kids have more freedom and prosperity and luxury than they ever had in history so I mean my question is more along the like shouldn't we be seeing a little bit of like we hit the bottom and like the therapy is starting to make a dent this is where I have I am really struggling with this I'm curious like how you see the big picture of this like what exactly do you see as what is happening here right um like why are we moving in the direction of of of healthier unless I'm missing something maybe I'm missing something but that's my experience right so there are it's a fascinating fascinating question a very painful question and a a burning and relevant question yeah so one school of thought um maintains that this was a horrific experiment at the expense of our children the last few decades Society went into the direction of how you feeling tell me Bubala what's bothering you oh you don't like that Mommy wants you to take a shower tonight okay you'll take a shower next year I'm I'm using a little humor but you get the point where instead of the drill sergeant philosophy education Authority this is what tati said this is what Mom said this is what makes kids happy this is what makes teens happy stop giving them all the responsibility stop finding out how they feel they don't know how they feel just put them on the right path right pressure right discipline right penalties and of course it's all with love that's what love is love is to make them mention to make them responsible people now we created a generation of spoiled narcissistic brats who are just talking about emotions and it's hard for them to stick anything out and to deal with pressure and everything causes anxiety and everything became a disorder that's what they tell you now everything is a disorder you're not shy you have a disorder you're not stressed out you're dealing with anxiety you're not having a hard day you're depressed that's a good you asked the question better than me this is a this is school of thought today and it's blaming it's blaming all the voices in society and this includes of course so Orthodox Society Torah Society Jewish Orthodox society that they say fell prey to this trap of being too sensitive to every single internal emotion confusing children when they're young and thus allowing them to take a path which often leads to their own moral emotional and spiritual decline okay and they say proof is in the pudding after all your years what do you guys have to show we have to show 4,000 years of consistency we have to show that repression has been successful I said mother told me day look at me I'm a soldier I put one I love it I put one foot ahead of another foot and you think my mother was easier than me she's much harder than me do I talk to my mother like my daughter speaks to me her mother said I ever think you think my mother wasn't worse than me she was much worse than me this mother says but I knew you respect your mother and father you sit at the shabas table till the end you don't go the because I'm not in the mood I'm not in the mood moods whoever heard about moods this is like a new invention feelings moods emotions self expression don't repress don't suppress voices cop just do do what you want and of course what about God accept the Yoke of God follow his path am I making a good case for this I I I I so far I love it people will start hiring me yeah by the ways Spees we were not we're not going to cut just that clip out there has to be that would be that would go viral Rabbi W just changing his mind changing his mind and saying look the proof is in the pudding come on doesn't data show anything shouldn't you know what do they say you know you're entitled to your own opinions not to your own facts what are the facts shouldn't truth follow facts I get uh I get uh emails and corresponden from people much less often now but exactly with this point well I will say I will say my that the way that's expressed has an answer pumped into it meaning I am not saying that that's the solution I'm not I'm not even in the question I'm not saying that's illusion I'm just asking the question from a questions place of something's happening I'd like to hear you know like a bigger version of what is happening um those people are already answering it those people are answering it they have a Clarity and they believe that we have turned shama the word trama you know people always tell me they tell me you used to teach Torah and now you teach trauma right that's and create trauma because of it yeah okay I get it um and I'll tell you something there may be some Sparks of Truth in my in the lecture I have just given with fire and brimstone there may be Sparks of Truth which means very often we blur the line between self-actualization self-expression self-respect self-love and falling prey to our most superficial instincts demons cravings inclinations and in the name of self-acceptance we often don't understand what it means to live life to the fullest to challenge our copy mechanisms to stimulate our deepest and highest angels to be able to distinguish between the parts of us that have become shells and protectors and husks the parts of us that we make us divine and that compassion and empathy and self Lov does not mean the legitimization and execution of every single Instinct and emotion I have when it may destroy my life or the life of my loved on so I think there is a lot of TR or at least there's certain kernels of Truth in the fact that so many boundaries have been blurred and we could often confuse empathy and love with a decline in moral vision and Clarity and that's something that has to be addressed but the way I see it it's just the way I see it is that uh we're we're really touching a much much deeper and larger phenomenon it's just my feeling it's my sense I don't have a scientific or Heavenly evidence for this and that is I think what we're actually seeing is the outcry for the ultimate healing and authenticity or to put it in Jewish terms the new generation is asking us to live Redemption not to talk Redemption but to live redempt of Consciousness and what I mean is as follows the Jewish people in the world has been in exile for many years Exile by definition means alienation emotional alienation Exile is not just Geographic Exile is existential it means my soul is misplaced right my passion is hidden I don't know who I am there's a dissonance there's a dissonance Redemptive Consciousness means there's Unity there is Oneness the the presence of true Infinity of the source of all reality is manifested in reality I think that our youth are begging for this consciously and unconsciously show me a Judaism show me a life not just a Jud show me a marriage show me a life show me a home without dissonance I want a home that is truly truly vibrating with ultimate ultimate truth with ultimate authenticity which means ultimate vulnerability I don't want that our relationship my relationship with my father with my mother with my brothers with my sisters with my rebies with my teachers with my Educators with God should have to be based on so much repression and suppression I don't want that Torah should mean anything else but the ultimate celebration of life the ultimate alignment with the source of all energy they want that Judaism should actually feel viscerally as a system of life that allows you to plug in to the source of electricity to the source of energy to the source of Life instead of feeling that we have what to hide we're covering up politics corruption at best we just want you to tow the line to give us allas and make our community feel good at best I want that my family should look good and ultimately do the right thing like your parents and grandparents and great great great grandparents did which will save you from a lot of trouble and you live a good life and your kids will give you Nas and you know what doesn't speak to so many of them and the reason it doesn't speak to them is because their soul is searching for ultimate meaning for ultimate truth I think it's an opportunity for all of us to deal with our stuff it's an opportunity for all of us it's an outcry for all of us to enter a different realm of life and it's a tall order but I think anything else we will be failing ourselves and our future there is too much when truth starts being revealed in the world what happens is the lies start fighting like never before when I was a young man this is in the early 1990s the rebi used to say almost every chabas and I did not understand what he was talking about he used to say that there's an energy of redemption in the world it's here what's needed is for us to open our eyes and when we open our eyes we'll see that it's here this was his last message then he fell ill and he passed away shortly after if you want what what what is he talking about I mean yeah every Jew hopes for messiah and certainly the rebba hoped for mashiah and always spoke about mhia but what is he talking about I think at least partially looking back it says it takes 30 40 years till you understand your reab it took a few decades I think he was articulating this once there's a certain energy of EMS of truth that comes into the world there's no going backwards this is it so basically if we don't if we don't embrace it fully you know what we're left we're left with nothing the old paradigms are not working anymore the new paradigms were not ready to embrace so you know what you have you have crisis you have a breakdown the alter maybe the meaning of Redemptive Consciousness and and like I'm just I'm just speculating here is that we are finally understanding Exile on a personal level it's a major part of it as as once said the person who doesn't understand what redemptionist can't understand what Exile is also so remember the only reason we can understand what personal Exile is cuz we have a foretaste of what Redemption looks like in the world of healing we know that when you start feeling viscerally the pain of the dysfunction of your life it's the beginning of Redemption on a spiritual level it means your soul is starting to talk your soul is starting to tell you what could be what's the possibility ities are your soul is telling you who you were meant to be you weren't meant to be a slave defined by the atrocities and the abuse and the sickness of the people in your family or your community who have wreaked havoc in your psyche and now you're blaming yourself for 30 years for 20 years you don't deserve to be that person your soul is much bigger than that abuser sickness who never dealt with his sickness from someone else what would ever happened to him and suddenly for 20 years or 10 years or 5 years or 40 or 50 years my soul was so dormant I didn't know about it so I was a happy person I was happy in my dysfunction and suddenly One day things are disintegrating why it's a good sign your soul is sending a message you're in Exile you're a victim you're in a wretched situation your heart is in jail oh wow yeah I'm dysfunctional now I have a choice am I going to begin the Journey of real integration of real healing the balat AL gives a beautiful metaphor he says you take a seed that's on your window sill it's a beautiful seed it's intact it's nice you put it in a frame and then you take it and you put it into the ground put it into the Earth it's going to decompose completely but only from the decomposition will a tree grow he uses beautiful words he says between one yes and another yes is's an which means when you go from one something that is a very miniature something and you take a Quantum Leap to the ultimate something there was nothingness in between right there's a Quantum jump that requires a sense of decomposition and I think that's our generation wow it's interesting because I had Rabbi kayaan in the podcast and he was he said something that really struck me which was that I was talking we were talking about enabling which is a great topic of mine it's a big trigger word for me enabling so they we were talking about that and he said he thinks that we're enabling people not to see their soul by making them by forcing them to to the line I mean saying it a all different that you that's the enabling mean when we allow someone to find themselves their Brokenness and to be able to start the healing that's where the real work that's where the real the real healing happens yeah and I I always I tell I tell this to myself I tell this to parents and Educators when you're triggered by your children rather than aroused with compassion it's usually much more about you than about them this is your opportunity to heal this is your opportunity to confront your demons don't dive back into your trap don't dive back into your wounds develop new neural path ways you know Yogi bar you're ruining my next question because my next question was how do I get my kids to do exactly what I want so I could be happy again listen the model of control is very prevalent and we have moral Authority for it that's part of our problem we have a source in Torah for everything and they're good sources moral Authority respect your parents respect your teachers God knows better it's true God knows better but can I trust that God's light is present in each one of my children can I trust that when the grace Mystic said that mo mo said means that the truth of Oneness vibrates through every soul and the the ultimate message of yish is not suppression but alignment it's letting go of my coping mechanisms letting go of my insecurity of my guilt of my shame of my fear so I can actually become a channel for infinite love and light is that real or not real if it's real I trust if it's not real I control part of Redemptive Consciousness is relinquishing spiritual control not because you don't care because you care too much because you trust CU you're connected because you're ready to face your demons and when we're not ready to face our demons we will blame everybody and everything especially those poor children who are simply saying tati stop lying to yourself T you're a miserable man tati Judaism for you is Hell TTI you hate God subconsciously you're just scared to say it I'll say it for you right T you hate God you met my kids T how much do you love God every day you say love God with all your heart with all your soul you love God with all your heart with all your soul do you even know what it means to love with all your heart with all your soul you can't even love yourself with all your heart all yourself how in the world do you love this invisible God who Afflicted you with all these Muka kids cuz you believe in Divine Providence tati don't you you're not an atheist like me right you understand what's happening yeah the father who listens to that and he knows how much he hates or he knows maybe not how much he hates but how much anger he has he knows how much despair he has he knows about his inner stuff with his spouse he knows about his own Cravings he knows about his own skeletons he doesn't talk to anybody about it you know he may be the gab in the sh he may be running The KES he may be the president of the synagogue he may be the honor at the dinner he may give the sh I don't know or he may be just a good you know real estate broker right I wanted to say a farmer but I don't know too many I thought you going to say like the the person who runs our village let getting nervous I I once I once saw something it's incredible always say it before PES say you know what's this custom we have right we split the mat and then we have the AF and we put away the A and then we're going to retrieve it later at the SED and the old Jewish custom is our children take the AF and basically they steal it or at least they take it you know we hit it our children our children find it and then they the ones who have to give it back to us and they want a prize what what's this whole custom I said every one of us in life has things that we hide that's the fact and the Seder is teaching us whatever you hide your children are going to bring to the four we all have those afans it's called sa Saun means hidden secrets consciously or unconsciously I may be a very good guy I'm not this is not malicious this is not judgment this is all unconscious I may be doing this in some four years old it's my own coping mechanism these things are just hidden beneath the surface you know what who's going to you know who's going to bring it to the before your son your daughter you say mommy taty here's the AF Bobby Z here it is and I could look at my child and say how dare you how dare you you spoiled generation listening to too many RAB by YY Clips enabling all this self centered Judaism healing healing healing healing I just saw a clip uh you may have seen it Leia rashan was interviewed by Ellie Nash and oh right I didn't see the whole thing she speaks about her abuse as a child you know it's a harrowing story but it's the Triumph of her spiritual growth and she mentioned that somebody in her family called her selfish for exploring emotions right yeah a distant relative I don't mean in the called her selfish for exploring emotions you understand we allow these kids to be raped at the age of three right I don't mean that anybody maliciously allowed in the family I mean we we we were not sensitive to the plight of these kids right besides that we bequeathed to them our issues and then we blame them for not repressing what we managed to repress for 30 years then we get upset at them we call them selfish because they want to be authentic because they want to be able to say I love God with all my heart with all my soul cuz they're ready to confront every part of their animal soul and transform it cuz they're ready for the work of transformation rather than suppression isn't that amazing to ask you something how are you capable of transforming your negativity if you don't expose it is there anything in life that you can transform without holding it up in front of you I never saw such a thing how can I let go of something we say let go let go let go stop it how can you let go of a therapist want tell this me how can you let go of something if you're not ready to hold on to it by definition you can only let go of hatred of fear of guilt of Shame of insecurity of isolation of Detachment if you're ready to hold on to it holding on to it is painful oh I have to acknowledge it I have to feel it so I look at my children with those afans they're all holding a they say here it is here it is here it is and it's always a broken matah it's always a broken matah it's never a whole matah right it's a broken Ms and I say how dare you or I look at my child and I humbly take the a I give him a prize and I say thank you now I could finish my seder and say now we can March towards Redemption we can only March towards Redemption when we relinquish all psychological control for real and it's a very hard thing to do if you don't acknowledge how hard it is you're not doing the work wow I I'm actually I don't want to make another on it but I'm thinking it's called a Seder and I think that that wonderful message of that your kids have to make you authentic before you could tell them the story always you don't get to tell the story until you look at yourself and then you get to see the story you you see it you see it as you're all four of the children whatever okay you know what those who who are engaged in this work of vulnerability know exactly what it looks like they know what it means to let go of of control they know what it means to really really trust a soul they know what exclusivity and intimacy look like they know what it means to experience the magic of attachment without the need to judge to control to manipulate to exploit but to be fully present and if we believe if we believe that ano mul that we are all derivatives of infinite Consciousness we are all infinite con Consciousness having a finite experience if we really believe that we may not but those of us who preach this you know you're and hasem is everything what what what in the world do these words mean I grew up in aabad home a very very a very very cidic I grew up in a very kic Community right I learned the spiritual texts ofus and cabala much of my life I took to it I taught it I preached it I still preach it I pontificate it but I do have to say something and that is few were the people when I was growing up until today who knew how to present this information viscerally it was all intellectual stuff it was detached for many of us right not not not that people were there were people that were insincere but even sincere people sincere they they wanted to do the right thing they were doing the right thing but we didn't have the tools to translate we didn't have the language to communicate the message of the mind to the body or in the language of Tanya the Divine Soul didn't know how to speak to the animal Soul right so a lot of the information we say it we say Hashem hasem Hashem God God God how real is it how real is it right well okay so let me let me let me just do a tiny bit of pushing back because yes I hear it I hear we're in this this time of Brokenness a time of like you know a rock bottom of of our nation and of our people and of the world like something is cracking that has to be fixed and we're in that direction what I'm finding and especially because this is the work I do here with with community and building community Community is that everybody is so separated from each other it's like two things happen at once we have the ability to think and feel and whatever we want we have all the time in the world to feel all these feelings at the same time we're so separated from each other so if I try to explore these incredibly difficult existential crises that we're going through or our trauma or whatever we want to deal with I have no container that holds in because we're all separated meaning like wouldn't you know like I I'm like trying to figure out because you go to therapy I have this line that like therapy is only for healthy people it's a funny line but like if you go to therapy you take a homeless guy you stick him into therapy has the best therapist in the world charge $900 an hour and then he goes back to the street he's not getting better he needs a container of healing to be able to hold them and we are so fragmented and we need support system systems every person right it takes a village to raise a child takes a village to heal all of us we all need support systems and that's why the Most Blessed work we can be doing here is preventive medicine when we allow young people to enter into marriages that are based on humility and authenticity and self-awareness and other awareness and the journey of growing together and they raise generations with that that Spirit we create support systems every person needs a support system right without it I can have the most acclaimed therapist in all of history and I can go from one therapist to another therapist from yoga to Pilates to the gym to another type of therapist to a setic psychedelics and when it comes to psychedelics integration right is is indispensable people who do who do who take Serious ious healing plans or whatever it is you know which creates awareness without integration it can be very very disastrous right you open yourself up to your unconscious is there anybody to massage the wounds is there anybody to caress the wounds is there anybody to say what am I supposed to do in a week from now when I'm back in the same toxic environment like the word it's all can the high priest go back home trust me the holy of holies he experienced the consciousness of infinity right all the layers were removed that's why so many high priests died the gar says the tal in the time of the Holy Temple most of the high priests on Yer they died in the holy of holies they couldn't handle it once you your soul experienced a certain voltage of electricity if your body can't contain it if you're not in the State of Consciousness that is fertile for this you're finished right you're not coming I feel that way about therapy all these processes all of them so who's going to allow the high priest to come home he needs a home base he can't stay in K and the holy of H for the rest of his life it's not what God wants the soul came down we could have all stayed in heaven over there we wouldn't have these conversations no trauma in heaven no copy mechanisms in heaven no lies in heaven but there's also no transformation in heaven in heaven we don't have the miracle of relationships the miracle of transforming Darkness into light and that's why the support system triumphs over everything that's why marriages today need to be healed how many marriages marriage is a good is a good metaphor for all this not a metaphor an illustration how many Mar you know we have in our culture divorce was considered is considered something negative a tragedy okay right you know about this topic personally and that that notion that notion is a blessing because we have we cherish marriage and we cherish strong United families but let's understand something how many marriages are dysfunctional on the inside even though they continue on the outside right I I I I will tell you that I'm feeling my wife says to me um hold on one second just want to see something I just want to see something sorry okay it's they're both working Ellie so my wife says to me like that I'm like too far into the gutter to be able to really see the world I mean like like like sometimes has a point she has a point my wife told me me once she said you are getting too many dark emails it's too many to to be able to have a clear view of all the positive stuff right well I can well because I I literally look around I'm using literally in the literal sense um not because I'm young I'm not so um I look around and I I almost never see a marriage that I'm like these guys are really they they like have like connected I'm not knocking any of my friends marriages or anything like that but it is it it's become like a rare gem if I even to the point where I'm embarrassed to share if I have good marriage stories like oh my gosh what my wife did for me it's like and then I got to be worried who in the room is going to be like oh him and his like I'm Mr romance Mr ROM you know they make fun of me everybody makes fun of me about all that stuff but but you understand they make fun of you it's a cry of desperation no I understand that but Cry of desperation but what is happening what I can't have it I mock others that's my only defense system I mock others oh romance oh go run home to your wife little baby needs his wife we stay here in SCH we get drunk at the kides and we mock our wives right in the name of you know Progressive sophistication it's really the desperate Cry of people dying inside when a when a when a marriage is not really really wholesome there's so much suffering there's so much Agony because we were designed to be attached attachment is not luxury attachment is the very fabric of the DNA of life in the animal kingdom in the botanic World never mind in the human race the first thing the Torah says that's not good everything was good Hashem created The World God saw it was good it was good it was good it was Good Friday it's perfect not perfect it's very good and we're waiting so what's not good what's not good the first thing he says you know what's not good right not good that's the first not good in the Torah not idolatry not idolatry not promiscuity not sin before all that it's not good for Adam to be lado to be alone why it's not an intellectual philosophical detached idea it's the visceral experience of every living organism especially a living Soul we not be L and when we are we create substitutes yeah if I didn't get real love I'm going to need to substitute it by getting validation which brings us back to the B spe first topic so my entire career that's Rabin was really telling me my entire career for 90 years may be to fill a void of a four-year-old who never experienced real attachment and therefore he needs that 9,000 people in an auditorium should say you're worth something you're good I love you you changed my life wow I wish you could move to my community and inspire me and the poor 50-year-old man is really a three-year-old wow oh I exist I have worth I have value I have value attachment is the intrinsic Divine need for connection and there's a reason for it it's not just evolutionary biology because as hunters and foragers when we hunted in groups there was more of a chance that we're going to get the tiger rather than the tiger getting us right that's not the key issue there's something much deeper if the truth is that the whole world comes from Oneness so we're one attachment just means we are who we really are we're all connected to Oneness so we're all one we are derivative of Oneness if we are all man manifestations of infinity we are one so attachment simply means I'm aligned with who I am lack of attachment means I'm an isolated creature which means I'm disconnected from my own reality that's painful so I need substitutes for that and we're out of alignment we're out of alignment so now I need I need attachment so what's the attachment going to be maybe my phone maybe prostitution but we but we have wives we have husbands what why are we not grabbing this what I need I need to understand it better because because I I sometimes watch couples and I'm like I the answer to all your problems is right here in this room right next to you it's not all the answer but it's the connection between you two you could change the universe that's what it feels like to me but we will do everything to fight against it what is that fight that people are like I I literally feel embarrassed to share stuff and it's something I realize like even on my podcast like I keep I'll talk about all these other topics but my favorite topic is my wife like I really like my wife that's the truth it happens to be that with you and some of your siblings that I've met over the years I saw a common denominator that many of them have very good marriages it's weird because we know how bad it is no it's there something where my I really I think what is it that you guys received or learned I see a few of your siblings who I know it's true and I see good marriages see right well I I do have a theory on this I I do my theory is my mother taught us how to be married and not in the sense of being married she was not married she was divorced um how old were you when she she's like seven years old so she but she had a way of looking at life that was very very big picture like we have no money but somehow we're all going to this Sim together in AR doesn't make any sense the for the family which was a little cult-like we everything is is taken care of like this the whole essence of our existence was the family and the house and what was happening in it whatever it is with the dysfunction or not dysfunction what happened there was I think the message was when you find the right thing that's it you you fight every tooth and nail to make that work and we all kind of said marriage is it having kids having a family that's it they're also great parents my siblings which is pretty awesome to watch like they're it's like and we it's not like it's easy everybody's going through their own struggles but I think that there's a big picture of the answer is this and you put everything in so I don't know if it it doesn't come from us looking at good marriages I didn't see a good marriage and until I was like I think around bar mitzah time I you know my sister got married and I I I really loved her marriage one word that comes to mind is safety for a marriage to have this type of uh closeness and Trust I think the husband and wife both have to feel real real safety I don't mean of course only physical safety obviously right you know if the husband is screaming and throwing dishes if the woman obviously there not going to be safety but I'm talking about a much deeper type of safety and that is the safety that I could truly be me and you can truly be you so that we can go back to those wounds that have forced us to develop all of our coping mechanisms and undo them undo our coping mechanisms the only real connection that happens between people is when our souls are open CU that means my heart is open it means my love is open it means my inse Securities are gone it means my fears are not controlling my life it means I can truly truly experience the true me so I can really experience the true you but how many of us have access to that parts of to that part of ourselves I can't love you if I can't love me and I don't just mean love me you know take care of myself and make sure that I get enough sleep that too treat yourself that that you have to respect yourself love me is love the me that is the raw vulnerable child pre my coping mechanisms I don't even know who that is how many even supposed to know I may believe that that little child is such a grotesque ugly sick undesirable baby that he forever has to remain hidden in a closet because if anybody knew who Rabbi why why really really really was I'm not being invited to any podcasts so you're going to pay my bills who's paying my bills that's the only reason I invited you I have a feeling I I know no I'm kidding right and these are decisions we make at two three four five six no we even know about these decisions when these are preverbal decisions especially if you had to confront abuse sexual emotional physical psychological spiritual especially coping mechanisms are even if you grow up in a fine family because the world is imperfect but if you really had to deal with stuff now I come into a marriage right I come into a marriage maybe I coped with my abuse or with my trauma by disassociating I don't feel in Yeshiva I'm the top boy it's it's a hazard to feel in Yeshiva if I don't feel right I'm learning aor 12 hours a day gives a she I can refute him from I'm the hero of the century I'm the next right nobody told me that's not going to work in marriage if I refute my so now I get married and I think you how much going to become popular I'll refute my wife just like he did rash and I'll tell my wife you know T is against you the ROM is against you God is against you and somehow my wife is not impressed she's like you know right so she starts poking at my emotions but those emotions have been locked up in jail for 18 years I don't know 25 years so she is now my worst enemy not because I'm a bad guy but because she is threatening to open up a can of worms that I had to lock up 20 years ago to survive cuz if I would have felt I would have had a dagger in my chest every day and I would have been a dead man a dead child so I disassociated in order to connect in order to live in Yesa it's great in SCH it's great in business it's great but the one relationship that needs authenticity and raw emotion becomes the greatest threat for me so who becomes Enemy Number One my wife and the more she loves me the more dangerous she is but nobody knows this everyone is acting in good faith the husband is trying to be a good b and a Good Ye and he's learning and all these about good Mido and he's controlling his anger and he's going to therapy because he's he's actually he wants to help himself and and and he's learning about you know understanding his emotions and then controlling them and seeing where it's coming from does he know that preverbal preverbally he has shut down himself he doesn't even know who he is he has no body awareness he has no emotional awareness and the poor wife is blaming herself cuz she's a good Jewish girl and you blame yourself if she'll be more this and she'll be more this and she'll be more this and she'll be more this and what about all those who then go to pornography and go to addiction and the wife says if I would dress up nice and I'll be more beautiful I'll be more FR and I say more to and there's a complete lock lack of awareness of anything really going real going on so you have two people triggering each other 24/7 without an ounce of safety and they both mean well and none of them know what they're doing and they're good people and their marriages are falling apart and they're trying their best they don't want to get divorced because they actually like each other they're good people they're nice people they really actually God brought them together but they don't know it because his trauma is triggering her her trauma her trauma is triggering his trauma so they're both now in Act of trauma 24/7 unconsciously which means it's stronger than ever you know conscious trauma I can deal with unconscious trauma defines me in my totality 24 hours a day seven days a week right and now you come to them and say come on guys get your marriage together you guys are a Powerhouse they don't even hear what you're saying all they hear is a third enemy just came into the room to destroy our lives this mug therapist how we how do we get rid of him it's true how do we get rid of this crazy guy well sometimes it helps cuz they want to get rid of you it's like a common enemy bring them together what has to happen what has to happen what is what has to happen has to happen you know fix what has to happen is wait can I say something can I say something you could say whatever you want at this point at this point at this point you could say whatever you want it's your podcast do whatever you want okay so you can even tell me you're triggering me get out of my office yeah no I need some water yeah we got water here here I'm just going to give you the whole thing so I think I think that is it possible that nobody is okay I have this line that I came up with recently and the line is before you get married you're lonely after you get married you're also lonely but you're doing with somebody that's meaning well meaning maybe obvious but the idea is is that we don't fix anything about getting married but we have that connection like you're talking about that I get to now do this with someone else I have a road partner to do this but it comes with I don't I I you know we I have this image like people always talk is he ready to get married and it's all is like is he like so independent in his thinking and feelings and he's like figured it out that now it's going to be interdependence because they're going to connect two independent people it never existed in the history of humankind I don't think so is that we we are broken as people and if if we could share that with another person I how do you tell that to people that whoever you're marrying is broken I actually saw a picture recently that someone sent me where I was a teenager and I had like this long flowing hair and I'm like all dirty and like I I look like I need some help I don't know if I was dirty but I you know and my wife met me then and in some ways I think that might be a little bit of The Secret of my marriage because she never she we yeah we were talking when I was in the middle of the muck so I couldn't like go you all of a sudden we're married and be like no I'm perfect what do you mean yesterday you were telling me your problems with this so what I'm saying is that is it possible and I don't know if it's what you're saying but is it possible that a marriage can't work unless we are broken with each other if you're too good it's just not going to work is that what you're saying I I don't know if I'm hearing you right you have to broken with each other for it to bond I'm saying that and I'm saying a little more I think okay I need to breathe and meditate a little bit breath it's that's a good thing about podcast you don't have to talk fast although um first of all I would just make a little correction and that is when you say we continue to be lonely but we could be lonely together we don't heal I don't want to romanticize Brokenness I believe that essentially trauma is about isolation and when I'm not lonely a lot of the trauma gets healed this doesn't mean I don't still have voices of Brokenness inside of me it does not mean that my loneliness doesn't still come to the surface and wants to hijack my heart it does not mean that but it means that with real attachment and connection a lot of our wounds are healed because trauma always happened in isolation it happened because of isolation and it creates further isolation it's back to those words in the Torah apparently contain more wisdom than we imagine because you know Cutting Edge wisdom of psychology and healing and Neuroscience is about not being l of addiction is not sobriety it's attachment it's very interesting because if you go back to the history of psychology they were trying to do it alone like the psychoanalysts were like it's all you you got this you got this and everybody is letting that drop away everybody I I once went to a very big years years ago I was Yesa Bo I went to a big healer he was psychiatrist psychologist and at the end of the conversation it was intense and I was walking on I just wanted to make some friendly talk and I said you know how many children do do you have where's your wife from and he looked at me and he said Dr Freud has taught that we don't allow such conversations it must remain completely impersonal it didn't feel it was awkward you know and that was it he didn't even say goodbye but there was it was a philosophy the philosophy was put up a wall and maintain that wall and it's for the benefit of your clients for the benefit of your patient today we're realizing it's in the empty empathy and attachment where so much of the healing happens right the therapeutic relationship yeah relationship that's I think number one number two what I'm saying is when you say you know it's in Brokenness that we connect I think again I I I don't like romanticizing Brokenness so much it's through heness that we connect but we only reach our wholeness when we're ready to confront every centimeter of our Brokenness we're not broken people we're whole people that's the good news we're not broken people I know in the healing modalities we talk so much about authenticity with our Brokenness that we sometimes feel we're broken people because there's Brokenness in us but it's not it's not the case we're not we're whole people and the greatest proof I see is in victims of sexual abuse when they were 3 4 5 6 78 or whatever they were emotionally murdered if we were machines if you take a hammer and you continue to bang on that machine for years on end in torturous and abusive ways that machine should be broken by now what we're seeing here is that there is a corar self that has not been broken that remembers everything that knows everything that knows how wrong it was that knows how special the child was even though that core self has been dormant and latent and buried for decades and suddenly it emerges through healing hopefully with God's grace it and suddenly we say hey where did that come from I'm whole I'm not broken the greatest abuse is not just abuse it's the belief that I'm really broken it's the belief that I'm really worthless it's the belief that I'm really ugly that's where the real abuse is but the soul doesn't believe that right and when the Soul emerges that wholeness comes out and that's where all love comes from cuz over there there's confidence there is uh Joy there's curiosity there's compassion there's love there's caring there's courage and there is uh there is celebration and there is humility and there's vulnerability because that's what truth looks like right but I will never get to I will never get to even touch my wholeness if I'm not ready to touch all of my broken pieces because my wholeness is always right behind my Brokenness and whenever I'm touching something that's broken and it's very painful the more painful it is to touch it's only because the light that's right behind it is more intense the intensity of darkness is always always commerate with the depth of light that it's eclipsing why that is it's one of the mystery of creation but it's the truth wow so when I'm touching something very very dark and I am scared to my guts I am scared and overwhelmed to go there it's only because that's that wound that fear is eclipsing my most powerful light and if I get to that space if I puncture it right the light is going to come in that's what it's about when a couple is not afraid of touching that space because they know the other person will not run right they will touch their wholeness and that's where a real connection is and then the Brokenness and the wholeness coexist in a beautiful relationship because we're not afraid of it and I think what that looks like practically what it really looks like practically is I said this the other day in a class you know you're sitting with your wife or you sitting with your husband depends who's listening to this or watching this and your wife says something to you and it triggers you it makes you feel like she doesn't respect you she doesn't like you you're a failure you're a loser right and and my coping mechanism is run away just run away you know either attack or judge or get angry or disassociate whatever our coping mechanism you know fight flight freeze Fawn whatever it is my coping mechanism may even be be saintly be thead don't feel pain it's a cleansing of my sins right but of course my anger is burning it's burning whatever what if I can turn to my wife right then or a little later and say wow my trauma all my trauma wants to do now is just run away from you for 10 years or forever I am I am angry I am furious I am I'm just in a very I'm in a very very miserable space now because of what you said wow you just you just went back to that kipa to that shell you went back to the formation of the coping mechanism and you puncture it right because you're you're addressing that wound now here is the catch your wife just got triggered she was trying to tell you something nice and kind and authentic maybe she was even complimenting you so what happens now now imagine she could say and my trauma has just been seriously triggered by you and you know what I feel like you are such an immature baby grow up whatever it is right and now it's his turn to run away so what's happening is they can talk about each other's emotions and attribute it to their trauma and say my trauma is being triggered by your trauma and then they could say what about our souls are our souls being triggered and they could look at each other and say our souls are actually celebrating this conversation our souls are not afraid of being vulnerable our souls are not afraid of failure our souls are not afraid of improvement our souls are not afraid of saying the truth our souls don't have to control our souls are confident we're good our souls are pieces of God we're fine I'm fine you could tell me my tie is dirty you could tell me I don't my clothes don't match you could tell me my speech was a miserable failure last night you could tell me I'm F my soul is fine it's amazing what you're saying because I when a guy comes in this house like the sober living and guy actually asked me today like how do you deal with all these broken you know like similar to what I was saying and I said the trick of the village a real any Village but this is called our village the trick is is that everybody is all right already when they arrive it's not that we are making people all right it's just that they don't know it we see it they don't know it and when they get to know it I'm just going on a very quick cycle there's a lot more to this but when they know it they're all right there's a lot of programs that are very focused on all the rules and this and that and how do you get to move and do the job and and we're like all we have to do is build a container around them where they feel the love and they they know they can't fall out cuz someone said why don't you call it why don't you call it um Foundation I said there's an earthquake you the the thing falls down out of a foundation a container earthquakes fires you're still in the container it might be terrible but you're in there the way we see it is exactly what you're saying is that it's I don't know even if it's spiritual not spiritual but when I when I look at that couple I see thunder and lightning I see the answer they don't see it if they just saw it so I'm saying you're saying with the cipus you just poke the holes till you see it but we have to create safety in those places because when I am when my trauma is being triggered my deepest wounds are being triggered now if you are not going to tell me why why you're safe you're safe here I will not be able to handle this I'm going to recreate those very same coping mechanisms that got me into the mess and this time I'm going to create them in a more powerful way so they can withstand my new my marriage too they're going to become more powerful than ever before CU now I'm a mature man and I'm going to use my intelligence and my prowess to create them I'm not a four-year-old now I'm going to do it even better and now I'm really done now I'm a dead man walking till my last breath this is where we have to cre safety for each other and it's hard because we will be triggering and we will trigger each other and the more success ful we are we're going to get to the deeper places and when we get to the deeper Places You'll forgive me but hell will break loose and when you puncture that spot that's hiding everything it's going to be very very intense and will you be able to contain that right or not maybe you won't be able to and if you don't cuz you're also a person you also have your issues will I be able to contain the fact that you didn't contain me because of your trauma or will I now run away this will constantly happen and we both have to have the courage I mean both the husband I have to have the courage to stay in and even if I failed to able to come back a day later and say it was very hard for me what happened and I apologize but yeah it was very scary it was very scary you you you Reena you for me you were a lion who just came into the room and is about to eat me alive that's what happened right what you you don't in marriage you don't hear a lot of the word safety you don't people talk about a great marriage I think it's all it's all safety that's what I think that's amazing I think safety is the is the portal it's the portal without safety we are not going to the broken places I can't afford it I can't afford it I'm sorry I can't afford it I've been alone for 50 years I'm going to be alone for another 50 years you know why I survived the proof isn't the pudding so I'll have a miserable marriage but I survived and you'll survive the miserable marri I'll survive the miserable marriage too and I'll even be an honored man in my community and I'll even do the right thing in many ways and I might give a lot of Charity and teach a lot of Torah and I'm going to D with a lot of kav and I will ask God every yipper please please take away my misery and I may become so dysfunctional that I will start calling misery happiness because it's the month of other and in the month of other you have to be happy and purm is coming you have to be happy so I will use my philosophical brilliance to redefine my misery as happiness do you understand that you know what that looks like yes but my anger I will not get rid of and it will come out passive in a passive aggressive way it will come out because I'm a saint so nobody sees my anger because I'm a very very good man but I'm an angry angry Broken Man and it's going to come out it's going to come out in very interesting ways and without real awareness without the gift of awareness we go nowhere we watch people people who are 70 years old and they're exactly the same nothing has changed they're literally in the same mode and nothing has changed and it's astounding and we're talking about good people right people who are kind and generous and want to do the right thing it's it's mamish not their fault there's absolutely not an iota of judgment here I would have been exactly in the same place right have I not had the gift of of God's grace and support I would have been exactly in the same place and sometimes you speak to the most intelligent brilliant people and they just they're clueless in this area because trauma is deeper than intelligence trauma happened when they were two when they were three their intelligence developed later so nothing of their intelligence has touched that spot and I'll say something else some of us have been in therapy for 30 years it hasn't gotten us there cuz talk therapy is amazing but it has a lot of limits yeah talk therapy can't take me to preverbal spaces I don't have what to say there's no words it didn't come in through words it's not going to go out through words so I think I I think there's also another major component here and that is this work is not done every day it's done every minute now you making it feel overwhelming in a beautiful way every minute every minute of the day I have to ask myself do I want to live in alignment or do I want to live in dissonance it's it's it's a minute by minute Choice okay literally we we're going to have to finish in a second but I I have like a bunch of other questions I wonder if I just want to say one more thing about this I think it's critical one of the biggest mistakes we make in marriages is we think we go into a default mode of a good relationship and it lasts it's ludicrous we go on a vacation it's been amazing we got away from the kids for a full week a full week the most beautiful island in the world okay we had an amazing time we come home we're expecting now a journey to paradise for the next 60 years already the next day there was an argument and at the end of it we both lift up our hands in Despair and he's thinking here she goes again oh my God oh my God and she's like wow he's just impossible he's just like his mother he'll never change you know that line they both sigh and they walk in opposite directions and they just drifted away emotionally right what just happened what happened was their expectations were completely not based on reality to build this type of relationship you are combating one of the most powerful forces in the world it's the force of loneliness that gets its power from the lack of trust and safety how much trust and safety is there in this world we live in a cruel world so my default mode is no trust no safety especially if I didn't grow up with much of it so my default mode is I can't trust my spouse the fact that I trusted you yesterday doesn't mean I can trust you today my trauma doesn't live with progress it lives Frozen in time I trusted you yesterday my soul trusted you my trauma still doesn't trust so if we don't constantly choose to connect and reconnect and deal with every new trigger that came up we will fall back and a lot of people don't like this it's too vulnerable yeah I don't have triggers come on I'm already at sadic am I not a sadic come on how how how long do you want to work on yourself but the truth is this is the only way forward everything else is miserable my sin is always in front of my eyes the Tanya says that's not a depressing thought it's a liberating thought it's an emancipating thought you know why it means that you know that to connect to your soul you have to be ready at a moment's notice to deal with every broken feeling that sets into your psyche and when a couple can be there for each other on that level it's incredible and the results are magical they are magical I I definitely agree agree with that they are magical and I I want everybody to experience them it's interesting what you were saying I do have to say it's not going to work if people are not read if one of the parties is ready to confront the other part is not ready to confront maybe because of Personality Disorder mental illness serious trauma not their fault right right if I'm not ready to I think majority of the time is a mirror like when one person starts the other one start that's what I see often but sometimes not you have someone who is so stuck and that's why we have divor div you have divorce and and sometimes you have one person who's a real which is the next topic I want to ask you a quick topic not so quick okay I had I did have one more point but I'm going to skip it because I want to ask you this question because I really I've been confused about this uh there's a couple things that's happened to me recently that that kind of opened my eyes to to to reality that I never really occurred to me one of them is October 7th where where like I didn't like I knew the world there was issues like people didn't like us but it didn't occur to me like where we were at and I know that's naive and I it's also probably help us survive most Jews of Our Generation you're like most Jews of Our Generation divorced from the heartbeat of Jewish history I'm not divorced I study it all and even with studying it all it was still shocking yeah and it was I guess it was shocking how fast and furious it was that's really what got me but it wasn't okay then the other topic this is interesting I had on and I've heard you say this is interesting I've heard you say in the past like about the idea of of um you know like not you know like suppressing somebody's thoughts like free press and you talked about your your your father being a newspaper man and like you know not not suppressing thoughts even if you disagree with them and all that stuff um I had on the Flatbush girl which is a real controversial issue interestingly similar to the I don't want to compare it to the anti-Semitism but I was aware that it's a controversial issue but didn't really understand it and I really wanted to hear her side and the amount of and this is this is I'm getting to the question but the amount of vital and anger that I got from you know her stance on how she's doing things and she's fighting for this auna crisis which I thought is a lovely idea fighting for the arunas to me as the naive person who fights for the people who are suffering thought it was a lovely idea and obviously she's triggering different things and coming up with different ideas to make you know to make it more public and all that um but even before the ideas to make it more public the amount of people that came over to me and we were like like shutting it down I there were there were a couple questions there and I was like I really want to talk to you about it and and we we spent the whole podcast on about other things but I really want to talk to you about it one of them was is there still a massive hatred of women from men like I didn't that was my first like I that cuz it was like it felt like just because it's a woman doing this work it felt like men were Furious like she's getting up and saying something I don't think it was about how she was saying it so much I think it was that a woman getting up and saying saying that this has to be done like tell bossing around the men triggered everybody to the point I it's just something I I wanted to bring up with you because it was just an observation I've had serious arguments with people it's not really an argument I'm just listening to them because I don't even know where my stance is my stances she's fighting for auna she has some wacky ideas how to do it they don't really bother me so much like it's not like I don't know Rune marriages and stuff like everybody comes up with something but even before the crazy ideas there was such a so like in the case of anti-Semitism it's like I kind of know that non-jews struggle with their relationship with us I know that from history and I know I don't know if they struggle they would struggle it would be fine I'm saying it nice yeah yeah good struggle would be good if they would struggle and say hey what is that what the issue with a Jew that's where healing happens maybe it's maybe it's not Zionist that I hate right it's so interesting the moment we confront demons that's the moment we begin the process of Redemption why wow that's a demon what is it it's about me that's an incredibly blessed process right the moment the anti-semites start doing that we know that a lot of good things are going to happen well well that would be nice it's really people confront that's by the way one of the great colossal errors of Jews blaming anti-Semitism on themselves they don't realize that this is a demon that the anti-semite has to wrestle with right I I got to wrestle my demon you got to wrestle yours I I start taking responsibility for your demon well like you said before if you don't even see it how do you wrestle with it that's I think one greatest mistakes Jews have is they don't understand the boundaries between their responsibility and the anti-semitic experience right and they're so in mesed and entangled if I'll only change my nose and change my forehead if I'll cease to be such an aparted occupier cruel dirty filthy communist Jew everybody will love me right even Hitler is being triggered by us Bin Laden we trigger them we trigger them and that's when Drews start uh you know ducking and ducking in fear and bending their posture out of shape and not knowing who they are anymore trying to worthlessly appease people are just not ready to confront their demons so yeah but uh but okay so no my question was about this do men hate wom there were two things there was men hate women and how are we supposed to look at this auna crisis like is it is a question of mine because and I wasn't absolutely fascinated by it I you know like but then I got fascinated by like what you know what exactly is supposed to be our view on this situation yeah okay so the truth is that you know I have to just make a disclaimer I'm not a RAB Authority certainly not in the realm of not in no realm but also not in the realm of divorce and G so what I'm saying here is more of a you know a brother to brothers and a brother to sisters from just living in my community and talking to people and hearing people I believe what what's what's happened in our communities is really a Shand it's a disgrace because every man who's refusing to give a get is getting some support even in the fact that he can walk into sh and he's not expelled from schul he's getting a certain respect right there's family protecting him there's friends protecting him there may be rabbis who protecting him and the same is true the other way around if there's a woman who's torturing her husband and not ready to accept a get and the fact that we as a community have not treated this with the ultimate seriousness and have allowed so many women to suffer for 5 10 15 20 years remain in shackles literally in shackles she cannot move on to her she cannot move on with her life because of this despicable unforgivable unfathomable behavior of an abusive husband or Converse of an abusive wife is a disgrace on us the first foremost function of Torah is to be able to create safety for the vulnerable to be able to help the Brokenhearted to be able to protect the orphans to protect the widows to be able to protect those who are foreigners you know how many times the r says the Torah warns us 36 times to be sensitive and respectful to the G to the convert comes from a different culture and doesn't have you know the prote the nepotism the the family and Community power so our goodness who do they have they have nobody right and and and instead of standing up for them very often there are people who support the other person even with only a smile unfortunately it's the first time in my life I hope it's the last time in my life that I had to throw somebody out of show really yeah in my sh I have a woman who hasn't had a g in almost 20 years hasn't had her get in almost 20 years she comes every shabas to us she comes to many of my classes and there was a man there who would walk six miles on chabas to come to my classes so it was flattering for me guy walked six miles chabas morning to come to my class in from the AL six miles I don't walk six miles I walk 6 minutes and his marriage was in a crisis his wife wanted a divorce and I thought you know with My Gift of Gab I'll be able to be persuasive and with my psychological techniques I'll be able to achieve them possible and for a few years I tried and tried and tried and tried to no avail until I told him you can't come to SCH anymore until you give a get I don't want you in any of my classes I don't want you in the SCH where I DAV I cannot DAV to Hashem in good conscience knowing that there's somebody here who's abusing his wife and his eight children none of them speak to him because of the get right and I believe if every single Jew would do this we would eliminate all full support and every woman who's in auna would have a support system as I told her every auna needs a support system she needs a few rabbis she needs lawyers she needs people with money with business every woman needs a team wow needs a team around her she deserves a team woman can't do this alone especially a woman she has six kids she has four kids trying to pay tuition cuz the guy doesn't even send a penny it's not fair so this woman needs a team around her a top level team a coach a lawyer a businessman a rabbi family a team and the team strategizes and the fact that they don't have this and the fact that in one way or another we give even tiny support to everyone who refuses to give a get is a disgrace to our community the fact that the Rabin leadership and all of the Jewish people are not SE single-mindedly focused with an unwavering tenaciousness and commitment to protect these women is an eternal disgrace on us as a community wow that's very well said Okay I I think it's the truth I feel very very strongly the same way and I've been just the same that happened with child sexual abuse for decades right people may have good intentions this is not a personal judgment on people a rabbi is busy he's trying to R a sh he wants to be nice he think I don't like throw I don't I don't I'm not I'm not a guy who throws people out of shes right never threw anyone out of sh I can't imagine you throwing some not that type of guy and I didn't like it but I felt I'm now going to be the hypocrite just because he's walking six miles to my classes I'm going to be the hypocrite and he could sit here and by there's a brilliant guy Yale graduate asked excellent questions the crowd loved him in the you know I like inter active classes I'm going to now be a hypocrite cuz it's working for my ego I'm not going to do that I said leave wow leave don't come back here do not come back do not step foot into my show and no one should let him into any show exactly I don't know which you why is anyone Ling him into an yeah such a person should not be allowed to join a minion you don't talk to God while you're abusing your wife there AER from the prophet yes Isaiah and he speaks over there God says you think your fasting is going to appease me you think your fasting is what I need he says what do I need I need you to remove the shackles of people whose lives have been broken of the devastated of The Wretched of the Orphans of the widows of people suffering stop abusing people stop violating people that's what I call a day of atonement that's what we read in everybody could read it it's not my not it's from myovi who was also a religious Jew right when we lose sight of that and we know how to make signs and kis and protests about everything against besides child sexual abuse it took decades for people to talk about and again they didn't know I'm not judging anybody principes rabbis we'll deal with it we'll deal with it we'll send them to Israel so he goes to Israel and he abuses another 40 kids we'll send them away from Australia he goes to England and abuses another 100 Kids you take the Wilder case right 25 years this one of the most celebrated psychologists in in is one of the greatest authors of children's books in the Orthodox World crazy a c crazy story you think people didn't know about it 25 years ago they didn't know they knew about it right but they thought you know whatever so what happened thank God today it's not fixed yet but there's more Consciousness there's more awareness a school realizes if there's a predator Court you know you got to deal with it you got to deal with it if somebody has a gun and goes to a school every Friday and shoots a kid nobody asks so you all to go to the police right suddenly here when you're killing a kid for life I don't have to tell you yeah I don't have to tell you the results of child sexual abuse no you're murdering a person for for for years you're going to he's a dead man or she's a dead woman hopefully they'll get the healing they need because their souls are never dead as we said earlier and suddenly here it's like n it took years for people to come around years and testimony and how much pain and even today there's people who are still a little queasy about it yeah I want to tell I saw videos of some of these protests were going on and there was another side meaning there were protesting against a get refuser and then there was another side what what is the side what did and they I don't know what it was it was a whole side of people going you shouldn't be here talking about yeah and then they use and Torah and mitas the whole the rambam says the rambam was also an orthodox drw the rambam writes the whole was given to make peace and Harmony sh ra says there that wants his name to be erased to make peace between a husband and a wife the whole function of Torah was to bring peace to people Harmony a sense of Joy Tranquility safety security Oneness attachment so in the name of Allah and the name of Torah we can abuse it's like idolatry it's like a Pagan religion you know you Slaughter kids on the altar to appease some God who doesn't exist that's what I often feel we like lose touch with the essence if Justice compassion kindness generosity safety of the vulnerable and of the children of the women of the men is not our highest priority which God are we serving take your God and you could burn him because he never existed W take your God on paper tear it up and throw it in the garbage it's not a god any normal person wants to worship it's a corrupt God it's called a pagan God the fact that you call him a Jewish god just means that you have adopted your Pagan God and call him a Jewish god and I'm not going to buy it I'm not going to I'm not going to be part of this right it's but it's below our dignity it's a betrayal of our history I I told somebody 4,000 years Jews have sacrificed everything to hold on to their yedesh for what so that we could protect sexual creditors and abusers tell me for what tell me for what for what what did we hold on to exactly what's the sacred treasure that we fought the whole world we were slaughtered of the millions to hold on to for what so I could protect abusers of my community that's the crescendo of Jewish history tell me that a guy who's torturing his wife for 15 years can get away with it cuz he goes to the mikah every day and puts inas and only eats cuz he's a from guy that that the crescendo of our religion I think it's this are my ancestors we all have to sacrifice so much tell me it's the basics the basics is the fight for for for Justice For Truth for the safety of people for people not to be tortured thinking about you know think about your own daughter right right think about your own daughter people think about your own daughter your sister your daughter yourself being in chains for 10 15 years and at the mercy of a person using in a Sinister way is there a greater desecration of God and Allah than this the fact that all leaders are not are not are not silent are are not outspoken about this in the most forceful of ways I think is a disgrace well you giv me a lot of comfort with your words because I I I feel like yelling as much as you just yelled and and I I really really believe this I'm not even articulating 10% of what has to be articulated about this think if it was your son if it was your daughter yeah it's think about it think about your daughter being a auna and sometimes it's the other way some the wife torturing you know you have women who have their illness and their mishas they're torturing their husbands that's also a I don't I don't mean to sound here you know it's always the man is the is is the Russ and the woman is a sad it's not always that way right some women are very sick people too some women are very very sick people well there was a divorc couple and I could cry when I tell the story and they were making up a mitz for the boy and the son the father is from flatb made a beautiful B Mitzvah he felt this is a way of you know giving his child the dignity that he didn't have because you know his parents weren't married his heart for Him and what did the mother do the ultimate revenge of her ex she didn't let her son come the Mitzvah Mitzvah in flat 300 people everybody came to the Mitzvah because they knew that it was a sensitive situation and it was a difficult divorce she didn't allow her son to come to the Mitzvah so the father has a Mitzvah he has a bunch of guests and the boy is not there you understand wow this kid is going to get older one day what is he going to think about his mother she a sick woman she's a sick woman really sick she probably has such crazy intense trauma to the point that she's so so disassociated from her emotions so disconnected but there's a cruelty here you know there's a cruelty yeah really and one day this kid is going to grow up and and and you know like what what her hatred to her husband you know gold they ask golden Mary right when is there going to be peace and she said when the Arabs start loving their children more than they hate ours there will be peace right when Kamas starts loving the people in Gaza more than they hate Jewish children there'll be peace in a day you may maybe you may be divorced or you may be separated and you may hate your spouse or ex spouse and maybe for good reason maybe for very good reason I'm not I'm not here to but the moment you hate them more than you love your children the moment you hate them more than you love yourself you have just become a horrible horrible victim of your hate the moment I'm shooting myself because I hate you it means that my entire the hate has assumed my entire life there's no me left love yourself you hate this guy okay but love yourself respect yourself love your don't use your children as missiles as little missiles this is what our enemies do they use their people as missiles just to destroy Israel and and we don't want to do that we're doing also okay okay I think we're going to stop okay I really really appreciate you coming thank you so much thank you for this day that have been given thank you thank you thank you for this chance thank you for this [Music] chance this class is brought to you by the yeshiva.net please help us continue the classes make even a small contribution at w.the usa.net donate