Live! The Great Debate on Shape of the Menorah: Rav Herzog Rav Kapach Reb Chaim Kanievsky the Rebbe

this story that we're going to share today takes us back 1,9 54 years that's a long time and yet we still remember it recall it discuss it and debate it we're going to go on a journey today discussing the great debate about the Mana that stood in the B mikdash destroyed today on the 9th of of 1,954 years ago in the year 70 after the kamero in the Jewish calendar in the year 3,830 although some say it was 28 or 29 68 69 or 70 the story takes us on a journey from the holy land to Rome to Oxford to Egypt and to different parts of the world it takes us through generations from the time of the bikes to the days of the talic sages to the to the all the way to Great Scholars and Giants of our own generation and finally we'll bring it all together with God's grace and demonstrate a very powerful time Timeless and very relevant lesson for our lives individually and collectively I want to especially thank the sh and everybody behind it for all of the Tish above amazing events including this one my friends Blazer and Heather Shiner Rabbi no shiner and the entire staff of the SCH for putting it together I want to thank SCH Gilbert for all of the video and PowerPoint production and I want to thank also all those who gathered the material for this discussion over the years there been many articles and essays written about it inim and in different uh Outlets different pamphlets different booklets which have written about this debate from where I gathered much of the material including a recent class and Source sheets by my friend from Beverly Hills RBI Penny duner thank you and I want to especially thank also those who dedicated this special Tish of History lecture that's being shown here and also around the world I want to thank Torah anytime and the yeshiva.net and all the other websites that are live streaming this event and so many other amazing classes and Gatherings of History Etc on and I want to thank three of the sponsors for this class dedicated by Esther and akman Goodman in honor of our fallen soldiers may God Avenge the blood of our most precious and sacred young Souls who have sacrificed their lives especially in the recent months since since October 7th for our brothers and sisters in the holy land this is dedicated in honor and in sacred memory of all of the Fallen Soldiers dedicated also by a and ra Spitz may we Merit to see a sweet g a complete Redemption and dedicated in honor of our rebba with tremendous love and appreciation by David and Ida shatenstein thank you very very much David and Ida thank you very very much nman and Esther thank you very very much a rem and ra if you didn't get a source sheet please take your Source sheet it's four pages should be stapled so it's four sides with two pages if you look at most of the depictions of the Candelabra of the Mana I'm going to try to translate in English because not everybody has such a fluent and perfect Hebrew those of you who are great Scholars and knowledgeable in Hebrew you'll forgive we like to accommodate everybody or at least as many as we can if you look at most pictures or depictions at least till a few years ago but even today in many books or in schools or in worksheets or in pamphlets or in depictions artistic depictions of the man of the Candelabra in the B mikdash they will usually be depicted as seven branches which are rounded if you take a look at the first image you could put up the first image of the Mana the round Mana this is a classic P that was reconstructed by theik raar and his team his amazing team in yush in The Old City you can go for a tour where they recreated at least according to their understanding many of the vessels and the pieces of furniture so this is a classic image of the Mana you have her seven branches of course the middle Branch the middle stem known as the K and then from that stem come out another three on each side to the right and to the left and they are all what you would call in Hebrew ulim semicircles coming up and reaching the top of the Mana why did this become the picture of the Mana because apparently for many many generations close to 2,000 years at least many artists many designers have imagined that this is what the manura looked like in the b mikdash in fact in recent archaeology recent archaeological excavations that were done especially over the last 50 years they have found in different places in the Holy Land in ntis Manus engraved and some of them are are very very ancient engraved in Old shes or in Old homes depictions of the Mana or on coins even in a cemetery they're found between five or 10 I believe and many of them are round if you'll take a look at the next image here this is an example this was found if you go today you can see it on your screens right in the women's section and in the men's section yeah if you go today to the old city of Jerusalem and you go to what they call the Roa the Jewish quarter in the old city this was found over there in the home one of the homes that they discovered that served the Jewish community at the end of the era of the second bik where lived in one of those homes they find on the ground this particular image here you see a mana and of course you have 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 the guy even tried to make some designs on the branches which the Torah says you should have the branches had the three designs they had a Gava they had a goblet they had a cter which looked like an apple an egg an apple and they had a perah a flower so here you have on the ground of this home found at the end of the era of the second bikes a manur that was depicted this was not found long ago this was found recently here is another one that was found not long ago here again you see again the Mana one 2 3 4 5 6 7 and again it is round and here you have yet another one Cemetery in shim the entrance to a cemetery they decided to engrave a mana and there are others there's even one from a coin at the end of the era of the an he made a coin also has a depiction of a Mana with the round branches but the way even before most of these discoveries which happened only in our generation or previous generation what really caused this image to take root in the Jewish and non-jewish world Pro probably we can assume was the most famous depiction of the Mana in the world and that is of course in Rome and this takes us to the next image that you can see right here this is known we call it sh Titus the Arch of Titus and this Arch of Titus when you can walk through it you will see this image that was engraved in the ark and this was built when this was built and constructed in the year 82 after the Common Era that is only 11 or 12 years after the destruction of the second bikash the second bik was destroyed as I said in the year 70 although some put it at 68 or 69 in the Hebrew calendar it's 3,828 or 29 or 30 that's why now it's 1,954 years or 55 years or 56 years usually they say who's counting but we're counting we're counting and so we count and T Titus has this gate this Arch more than a gate an arch developed and built in his honor he's not the one who built it he's been dead already his brother built it and here you see a picture what's this image oops let's go back to it you also have it in your Source sheet you saw street so if you don't want to look at the screen you can look at y Street it's right here so here you have the entire Arch and here you have inside the arch if you look and you can go to Rome and you could see it today I should say for many many generations Roman Jews who lived there especially abstained from going here because this was a PL place that was used to denigrate and embarrass the Jewish people it was all built to demonstrate the defeat of the bikes of Jerusalem the decimation of Judea the murder of countless Jews not only that one of the popes would bring Jews here as a symbol for the submission of the Jews this was the place to demonstrate that their religion is absolete and gone so many Jews in Rome would for many many years abstained from going here what do you see in this image you see Temple vessels being carried being carried by whom in front you have Jewish slaves being taken in shackles behind you have Roman Legions and apparently this is depicting the prade that was made in Rome in the year 72 after 71 after Titus comes back from yusim to Italy from Jerusalem to Rome and the nation comes out and arranges a prade to celebrate this amazing stupendous improbable Victory and a major part of the prade is he has the slaves and the Roman the Jewish slaves and the Roman troops parading the expensive brilliant dazzling magnificent pieces of furniture and vessels stolen from the bik and now brought to Rome Titus dies now how did it work vaspian was titus's father in gamar he's called aspion caser aspion is aasian he was sent by Nero Nero in our sources Nero to be the commanderin-chief to crush down the Revolt of the Jews against Rome that began a few years earlier 66 after the Common Era but asanas was called back to become the emperor in Rome in Roman history Nero committed suicide and gamar there's a whole other version what happened to Nero but he was gone and now they needed a new emperor of espian was brought back to Rome and he chose his son Titus Titus to take over the job to be the Commanding General to supervise the destruction of jus and crush the Jewish Revolt this Titus did with extraordinary brutality precision and success and despite the profound and intense war that went on on the ninth of of he manages to ignite the bikes in Flames after a long Siege the city is destroyed the temple is destroyed hundreds of thousands of Jews are murdered according to Josephus who lived at the time he was a c Mato he went over to the Romans they call him Josephus flavus his Jewish name was y Mato and he wrote down the history of the time maybe not everything is reliable because he was working for the Romans but probably a lot of it is reliable he Des more than 1 million Jews were killed the survivors were sold as slaves and the price of slaves Went Down To What We would call $1 that's how many slaves there were $1 so part of the parade parades the success of Titus when he comes back to Rome a year later Titus dies his brother the mishan takes over and he's the one who builds around 10 11 years later in 81 82 theban remember happens in 70 this is 12 years later he builds this Arch and he has the artists the builders depict the pray so what are they depicting them bringing back all these vessels from the temple if you look closely you could see the trumpets I just made it larger here you could see the what we call the you see two Two Trumpets behind it you could see what many associate would be the shulhan the table where the showbread is and of course you see them carrying that ancient Jewish symbol the glory of the bikes on which the gar says this was the testimony to all the world that the divine presence rests among Israel among the Jewish people thear says that and this is the man this has become so ingrained literally it's two thou almost 2,000 years old and apparently even before the archaeological discoveries this is great proof I mean it's built within a few it's built a decade after the destruction of the second bikes it's called The Arch of Titus it's showing the slaves and the Romans bringing the Jewish slaves bringing back the vessels and here you have aor you have what it looks like and then look it has seven branches apparently this should put an end to the story so there was a Mana we don't know what it looked like cuz we never saw it if you'll take a look in the First Source in your Source sheets this you have to look in the source sheets text this is known as the small says and who is who lives post the destru of the second who escapes the Romans because there's a death sentence and he lives in a cave he hides in a cave with his son for 13 years until he comes out who is considered one of the greatest sages of his time he's a student of Raba and therefore he already lives decades after the destruction he didn't see the bik lived in the persecutions during the era of the persecutions of Rome against the Jewish people in The Next Century he tested I went to Rome I saw in Rome the he doesn't say he saw the Arch of Titus he could have seen that too but that's not the Mana that's an arch which we have the engraved the picture of them carrying the say I see the man the six branches were facing the middle stem the the middle lamp the center stem of the man chapter 41 this is a commentary on written yet by the themselves what was made and hidden the temple the Mish the sanctuary of M was hidden all the vessels the AR which has also the broken the barrel with the the staff of iron That Grew almond The Jug of the anointing o that Madeon the staff of iron the staff of and its almonds and flowers the garments of the who was anointed the crusher used by the house of AOS who would make Theus they would take 11 types of herbs and pound it into powder and that powder was ignited every single day the burning of the incense in the morning and the afternoon called Theus table they are still in Rome according to the I should say there contradictions to this the med says that the was hidden other sources as well say the Mana was hidden but at least here we have two sources that say Rim says I saw the Mana in Rome and the says the the table the parus the curtain and the Tiz which was the four the the plate on the forehead of the high priest are still in Rome apparently this should put an end to the story until the third B is rebuilt speedily in our days hopefully this Stitch Above All We could say is probably this is what the Mana looked like and if we want to make a picture of the Mana to teach our children our students or oursel or to give some visual graphic visualization it should obviously look somewhat like this but you know in Jewish history nothing is so simple and nothing is just put to rest and say let's move on we just don't do that so you open up the greatest commentator in Jewish history the greatest biblical anti muta commentator in Jewish history is of course Rashi now Rashi lived a thousand years after the destruction of the second B Mikes Rashi lived of course in a very different era in the 11th century he observed and witnessed the First Crusade of 1096 about which we read today some of the kin some of the heart-wrenching poems of the Crusades of T Tav which happened in m and in worms and in Sparrow in Germany and Rashi lived in Germany but primarily lived in France Rashi wrote a commentary on Kish the commentary the quintessential commentary on Kish and he gives a different depiction let's take a look at what Rashi tells us so here you need to look at your third Source the first page we already did the picture you could hold on to this picture because we're still going to come back to the Arch of Titus but if you take a look at page two you'll turn over your Source sheets page two let's learn the verse in truma because I want to see what Rashi says so this is the source for the whole that's Exodus 25 verse 31 Etc God tells Moses tells build make a Mana calabra of pure gold it should be made of One Piece One Piece of gold it should have a base and a stem a central stem it must have goblets beers cups C is like a button it's the design of an apple or an egg a circular Apple it's flowers should all be hammered out from the same gold of the Mana itself not easy six branches six sticks K is a stick a branch come out from the side three of the stem emerge to the right from one side of the central stem and three emerge from the other one comes Rashi and says what does this mean and he gives us exactly this picture which you see right now here on your screens says rash the stems the branches come out from this side from the right and from the other side from the left means diagonally so it's a straight line in a diagonal so as you could see in this image that was depicted based on these words of Rashi you have the central stem of the Mana of course you have all those designs you have the apples the K you have the goblets you have the flowers but what Rashi is saying is from both sides you have the third branch you have three branches coming out we don't see here a semicircular curvature curved image of a branch but straight lines diagonally and Rashi continues they extend and they go up all the way till they reach the full height of the central stem so that according to Rashi you have seven branches that are uniform on top they're even even though each one must be shorter or longer than the other one because based on where it's coming out from the central stem they all come out from the middle stem one above the other of course the lower one must be longer because it has to extend till the top the one above it can be shorter and yet the one above it remember there's three coming out from each side is yet shorter because they were all uniform on top and the central one came all the way to the top and the three came out from him and then they all met on the top this is rashi's depiction of the Mana and it's interesting where did Rashi get this from where did Rashi get this word B from now it's interesting it doesn't say it if it was saying gar or M our sages discuss what the man looked like we have a we have a called the way the mishk was built we have other sources in Mish or M or for different parts of the Mish those are the two primary and they mention a lot of things about the they don't mention the word b Rashi puts in this word it was diagonal and it's interesting it doesn't even seem relevant here why did Rashi even need this word rashi's job is not to describe history rashi's job is what as he always says to explain the verses his job is to explain what it means there was a middle stem and six came out on the side that's what he has to explain the shape of it doesn't say but Rashi seemingly Superfluous it's almost like he's throwing in this word Rashi would have perfectly made sense take out the word first of all what's his Source second of all why is it even necessary but this is what Rashi says we have a lot of manuscripts of Rashi over the Generations they have been published this is in every manuscript of Rashi so you might say okay so we have one source Rashi who believes for whatever reason that the branches went up in a diagonal form so it's one person Rashi versus all the pictures and all the depictions and what's common even in many that they have pictures today you usually see round Manas and if you go to the old city of Jerusalem they have right there and all the pizza and Fluffle shops and the glass a beautiful round Mina okay as would disagree it's one opinion it's not the first thing that Jews have argued about in history but fascinatingly we now go to the next step who is the second most seminal commentator and Authority in the Jewish World Jewish history is the ram myties the rambam lived a generation after Rashi the rambam Liv the rambam was born he lived in the 12th century and ramen passed away in 1204 at the age of 69 he was born in Cordova in Spain and he passes away in Egypt and he's of course interred in tarar says on his Tombstone from Moses to Moses there arose nobody like Moses like MOS and here something interesting happens through in history now if you take a look here rashley's depiction here is another one similar to this depiction again these are all take a look at your next Source page two third paragraph the rambam my manes wrote many many Jewish works and and also works that are not necessarily Jewish because the rambam wrote 18 books on medicine most people don't know that he wrote approximately I believe 18 books on medicine including homeopathic medicine herbs including Anatomy pharmacology and many aspects of biology fascinating books in Arabic the rambam also of course wrote some of the Timeless Classics of Judaism the most famous considered the most important work in history the foundation of the entire structure of how was developed but before that he wrote a commentary on mishas he wanted to make the mishna palpable he wrote this while he was escaping from the alahad who took over Spain and they wouldn't allow the Jews to remain there unless they converted to Islam alahad this was a radical group of islamists and their leader had a vision that Muhammad came to him and said for the first 500 years of Islam you can let the Jews live afterwards either they become Islamic or they die and the almad went from town to Town and Country to Country and conqur so my man R and his family escaped on the road in caves hiding that's when he wrote the commentary of the Mish was very young when he began I think like 21 or 22 he wrote it in Arabic the only work that he wrote in Hebrew was the the everything else he wrote in Arabic and we use translations and there were many translations done by for the rambam's commentary so this is originally written in Arabic and the ramb says as follows chapter 3 I decided that I want to make a picture I want to depict the complete form of the Mana this is what I want to do so people know what's happening now don't hold me accountable that the be the Goblet is going to be exactly what it looked like for what does he mean by that he means by that if you look at his goblet if you're going to look at the Goblet in a moment we're going to see that you can't doesn't stand it I'm brought it to a point so he says it's not exactly it's not precise what I really want is I want you should understand the number how many goblets how many apples how many flowers and where they were located I want you to understand the empty space where there was nothing I want you to understand where everything was I want to give you a general image of what the Mana look looked like but whenever anybody opened up a commentary of the mishna there was no picture the ra said I'm going to take a picture I'm going to make a b there was no picture and the reason is because everything was copied manuscript to manuscript and whoever was copying the man a manuscript of the rambam was found of this commentary with a perfect picture of the ramb of the man and his original handwriting and it was sold to Oxford University but it remained in Oxford and for many years would not allow Jews to see that se special collection of manuscripts took a long time till Jews first of all till they categorize categ Cate put it in a catalog and there's always another option very interesting Jew he was a y that's how sacred the presence the the wisdom the Holiness the the scholarship the Kusha the to of the rambam was in Yemen and until his last breath raap and the yemenite Jews always follow the verdict of the rambam even many areas where the rambam's view is the minority in and we follow other views but not for yemenite Jews ra Kapak was a great scholar as many people in Israel some you know some liked him some didn't like him but we're not going to get into that today certain elements in Jerusalem uh it's hard for them to like anybody that they don't like so they didn't like him either but okay there was some legitimate debates as well and R Kapak retranslated rambam's commentary on mishna completely from Arabic his own original translation from Arabic he himself translated he published it a number of years ago published the entire which was written in Hebrew with his own commentary and many other many other works of the that he himself translated so you'll have a commentary of mnas you have the old translation you'll have the cap translation which he was very meticulous about and when he published it he got hold of this manuscript and he said we have her a picture of the ra we have a depiction of the man kak published it a few decades ago and here it is in your next image this is the original this is the original handwriting of the rambam on top he's writing in Arabic he's describing what the Mana looked like and this is the image that he promised that he's going to make what the manura looked like you have it also in your Source sheets so you could see it in your Source sheets even closer up this raap published this is what meant suddenly wow Rashi and suddenly the exactly like Rashi exactly completely diagonal and here the rambam you could see is very even though he says he's not being meticulous with everything because if you look at his goblets you see they come to a pointed end you can't put them on a table like the sometimes they didn't want to put down the cup the the blood shouldn't be congealed but you usually cup you got to put it down on the table you're not going to hold it you're not going to hold it sometimes in EX in in gyms or other exercise rooms they have these little paper cups they don't want you to put it down so it comes to a point so the ramb makes that dep picture that's what he says I'm not being meticulous about this but I want you to have the general picture so he has the exact number of goblets which were 22 22 goblets the exact number of the flowers of the you could even see the base the ra writes this is the handwriting of and you could see there three legs coming down from the base because the r and Rashi both say the man had three legs it wasn't just a base that you put down on the ground there with three legs to the man Rashi says this in truma the ra says this in and in the commentary of mish Frank sources it to a called had legs thator says clearly that saying a few sources wasn't say three the rambam has here three legs Rashi also says three legs because there's other sources that do with three legs and the ram gives here the exact depiction where it is on each stem but you take a look and you see that suddenly Rashi and the ram the two greatest commentators and codifiers in Jewish history both have exactly the similar view if you take a look here in the next image this is just in the Franco rambam where he took the rambam's picture and he just put it into print so it should be very clear but this is exactly the rambam's picture you could see the base and he translates all the words of course into the original Hebrew this is the Frank Frank gave where he also collected it from all basic uh all recent handwritings manuscripts that they discovered here is the exact depiction of the ram in the commentary of the mishna and here is another depiction of it obviously based on the image of the rambam I'm sorry what what in this last one okay yeah you got a point you got a point so some people say I saw somebody wrote an article about this and he says come on don't take the rambam's picture so seriously the rambam himself wrote we just read it that I'm not trying to tell you the image of the Goblet bedok so who said he was trying to do the image of the stems bedok but I believe intellectual honesty with gravitate more towards a different View and that is the r says that when it comes to the Goblet don't take me don't take me don't think that it's precise but I do want to give you a general depiction of the Mana to say that instead of doing it round he did it diagonally and he didn't really mean it that way it was just madebe easier or faster especially when it comes to the rambam what is the uniqueness of the ram among other great features everybody knows the R's uniqueness in Jewish scholarship is organization structure Precision there's no Mastery of like when you learn M his Mish encompasses all of Judaism the of theik of M those that are relevant today those are not relevant today in a systematic organized way it's exactly how we wanted to present Judaism as he writes in his introduction I want to give Judaism to the young and to the old clear and precise this is his this is his stamp this is his uniqueness especially if you take a look again at the picture take a look at the base he did the base round he knew how to make a circle look at the base he made it round R knew how to make a circle I don't know how to make a circle but he knew how to make a circle take a look at the he made them like beautiful round perfect apples look at them look at the K every one of them and the base as well and take a look at his flowers what do his flowers look like a half a circle not a full moon a half a moon take a look at his flowers a half a circle you see circles but when it came to the branches suddenly this Theory says don't take him seriously but the truth is you don't have to listen to me R the son of the rambam wrote something about this the rambam had a son he actually took him over as the leader of the Egyptian Community after his father passed away his father passed away is the 20th of Tav is 12:04 or 12:05 they around almost 69 years old almost 70 at least according to most he lived in Egypt he was buried inel as I mentioned his son took him over his son has a commentary to Kish the commentary was printed only in 1958 that's just a few decades ago so nobody knew about this commentary it was in manuscript form but today we have it benam knew about his father's picture he didn't have to go to Oxford he lived with his father so R writes about the picture of his father take a look have it in your next Source sheet page two the last Source says the stems the sticks K are sticks were like branches like branches of a tree stretching out emerging from the stem from the central body the body the Goof of the Mana they came out straight exactly the way my father my master of blessed memory depicted I've seen other pictures those pictures the branches are circular like semicircles mistake that person whoever made that picture doesn't know the truth it's exactly like my father did it did hear this from the r directly he doesn't say if he heard it from his father but is saying oh my father knew exactly what he was doing and this is exactly how he did it he wanted to do it and it's right if you take a look above writes in his commentary on the mishna I said I told you he translated the R's commentary and then he writes his notes he says the thing I've seeing in all the manuscripts all the six come out of the middle stem and they come out Yer a straight line it's diagonal but it's a straight line it's not curved It's Not Bent it's not circular you know what is like an arch it would be like a semicircle it has none of this CL at all take a look in the picture of the ramb now something else was very mysterious this is the Ra's commentary on mishna the rambam has also as I mentioned a book it's 14 books called Mish this is his work over there he has divided into 14 sections you're going to be tested at the end a represents the story of the work in the the first section is in the third chapter he begins we know the form of the because it's explicit in the and then he goes through all the details and then he puts in three words and here is a picture but if you look at most ramoms for hundreds of years the r passed away 12:05 the r was already a besteller during his lifetime his work was a bestseller during his lifetime it was a classic then it's a classic now there's no picture so many printers just took out V you know I write this is a picture and then don't give me a picture you know you got to deliver what you're telling me you deliver they took it out in recent years they found old manuscripts from the rambam before the printing press was invented and they found three different three different manuscripts written a few years after the rambam's passing and there you have the picture of the rambam so we have three manuscripts that copied the original rambam where he made a picture of the Mana and there we have the rambam's picture three different manuscripts all depicting the original manuscript of Y kazaka and they were all published recently in the Fran Ram has one of them Rua moonshine and others published other ones they were discovered in Egypt I believe and here take a look at all three of them what do you see in the rambam here how did he make the Mana you see exactly like in the mishna this is the first manuscript this is actually the earliest one we have it was written in Toledo Toledo Spain in 1260 this was done 1260 that means it's a few decades after the ran passed away it's more than 200 years before the first printing press that would print Hebrew Books comes out the ram as I said passed away 1204 1205 this is 1260 now take a look at the second manuscript we have from the yaka and this in many ways is the most reliable take a look at the rambam's picture in the mishna now unlike the other one from the is that's this is not his this is a copy but that is his original picture so it's it's reliabilities of a different level with his writings but this was copied and this kavya this manuscript doesn't have a date but it's approximately around 1340 and the person who wrote it writes something fascinating and what does he write here take a look page three in your Source sheet here you have a closeup picture of this manuscript text he got I was MIA I monitored I I I corrected I edited this book wow he says I made this from a book and in that book it's written in the handwriting of the rambam this book was copied from my original manuscript so that's what he writes in this manuscript that this the rambam testified that this person copied it from my original he writes his own name so that's that's pretty authoritative and that's why you see the base is also that perfect base you see the same like he does in the commentary of the mishna and the Seven branches the six branches of the man coming out from the central stem come out diagonally and now if you take a look at the third manuscript also a picture of the yaka this one is a third one this comes from Italy 1389 and once again the same exact image to say that that the rambam didn't mean this he just wanted to make a picture and he just threw out an image when he wrote in mishna is this is the picture and we have the picture when he wrote in the Y this is the picture in our generation has the picture of the ramb and it has the common denominator of the shape of the Mana exactly like Rashi says in Paras truma and therefore of Kapak in this quote that I quoted earlier in your Source sheet ra Kapak says page two right page two ofap says and all the all the manuscripts you don't see any Circle you don't see any semicircle you'll see only a straight line diagonal rapak passed away in the year 2000 24 years ago um he was a member in the in and very very infuential especially among the yemenite communities and as I mentioned his works and here you have a picture of RAB Kapak in his later years he was born in 1918 or 1917 and he passed away in so we began the class by thinking that the picture of the mon was very clear we have all these archaeological discoveries we have all these pictures in all these forum and all these pamphlets and we have the Arch of Titus but then suddenly we went over to the actual Jewish sources not Titus not Rome not archaeology we actually went over to rambam and Rashi the two greatest common alic authorities and hands down they have a completely different depiction diagonal so we have rash the Reb of all the Jewish people and the rambam who both have this view if you take a look in the commentary of the who is one of the he also has a commentary on and there he as it says doesn't say this in gamar doesn't say this in it doesn't say this in mishas it doesn't say it in a med that we know one possibility is like the r writes about aul andri that from yua B we know exactly what aul and looks like because we heard it from our father every year before sukus maybe this was a tradition Rashi and rambam had Reb to Reb perhaps maybe and this is a likely possibility there are many MIM that have not reached us we see different things that the r and Rashi and other of that generation wrote and many commentators say there may be text that they had access to that were lost over the generations and the persecutions and the wandering just like there are tractates even in gamarra that are missing and manuscripts so many manuscripts that were lost and so many other things M too and we know M that we discovered later perhaps Rashi and the r had access to one of these ources of kazal where it said this and therefore they didn't even ask a question it was clear it was B there was no argument about it just like we see they say both of them say the man had three legs that we do have a med called Med there may be also another explanation the other explanation I heard from the he said that the word used in for the branches is what is a what is the literal interpretation of a anybody remembers where's the first time a we have here about the first time is the dream of pharaoh right seven stalks what does a mean is it straight or is it curved you ever go to a farm or no more you look at a KN straight k k means a stick it usually means straight so he said maybe Rashi was just telling you I'm just reading the words wherever K is used there I don't think there's one place where you have to say that it's curved or semicircular and in many cases it's to say it's having the word K is called which is a measurement stick the and what does it mean over there it can't mean curved because then you can't measure anything it must mean a straight stick so this is already in the how you you have again it's something that's growing in a field in a farm in a swamp that's a possibility maybe and made straight but it a pictur so I was looking is there a source actually is there a real Source we're soon going to get back to Titus to the gate of tit Arch of Titus is there a source clear that it was round so there is a place and you'll take a look it's your next the Second Source in page three he says that now this very ambiguous words means moves around means around like a crown what does this mean so the mug the great commentator goomber has a say for people don't know so much about it's called Z and says what does this mean so he wants to say maybe it means that it was semicircular he says it doesn't seem that that's what it means what it means is something else it means that according to this opinion the Mana was a completely different type of piece of furniture it looked like our shabas L it looked like our candelabras where you have the middle and the other branches were surrounding that's what the M of suggests the means but then he says we have a big problem because this contradicts our sources in kazal you had the seven branches that were uniform and in one line whether they were round or or diagonal you take a look in the Ezra one more source you have one in the middle and the six ones are arranged one after the other in a half a circle what does the Ezra mean some people say oh finally we have one source like in the Arch of Titus Eagle raash in his 22nd book says no that's not what dezra means if you study wellz dezra actually the m is Right dezra believes that it was like many of the shabas candelabras but it wasn't a full circle around the round it was a half a circle facing the middle Branch so it's a completely Third Way of depicting I told you with Jewish history things get complicated a completely original way and this is how he may have interpreted the and this is how the felt this is where of feels this is how the explains it so it's a completely different creature let's put it this way a completely different shape so among the we have and who according to these interpretations doesn't even say it was round he says it was a completely different type of candleabra where it was surrounding the middle Branch from the later generations we have one of the great the great cabalists and also alori is known as rui and if you'll take a look in your next Source what's is a book on the work of the Mish and theik he was born in 1687 he actually was murdered in 1743 he wrote a very famous cabalistic work called Mish very very great Authority in inab and also in he wrote A Commentary is called he explains every almost every Mish cabalistic interesting book in his book this is actually a source for the curved theory for the half a circle semicircular Theory you can take a look he says it comes out in an eagle in a circle from rash it's obvious that's not true so why am I arguing with Rashi a and here's the catch this was written in the late 1600s early 1700s and he never went to Oxford and even if he went they wouldn't have let him into the Jewish manuscripts and he would have even not known the manuscript is because there was no Catal but the omits this word he just says it goes out it comes out of this Central stem and goes up that's why there's a book before me known as printed in 1676 by a man named R yiti in tuva in Italy and he says that it was circular I know Rashi disagrees but the rambam is the man of Al and the r did not write B the r did not write B he omitted it he just wrote we have to trust the r and go with the sources of the rambam so I know I'm disagreeing with Rashi but this is what the wrote and this is what also an Italian Jew writes in hisa and he even adds in the next sour it's even logical because we have sources that the seven branches correspond to the planets and the seven planets that they spoke about in those times so each branch is one of those planets the planets are around One Source where he says clearly it was a semicircle that's how it came out so it looks at least somewhat like a planet comes the a talk that he gave summer 1982 he writes he says according to my humble opinion he says his source that it was semicircular comes from what from the omission of the r that the r did not use the word in his work now when we have the original handr written right handwritten depiction of the r of the and the testimony of his son the son his son testified that it was precise and meticulous so the foundation on which he laid his theory is gone the r because we have the manuscript of the mishna and we have the manuscript of the yadak and actually when the Reb said this they didn't have yet the manuscript of the yaka they only had the Mish and then later he added that they found the manuscript of the with all due respect and honor to the greatness of the who were truly great spiritual Giants according to my opinion it seems clear if they would have seen what we see they would have all agreed so it's not even an argument this so re is saying a bold statement if they would have seen the evidence they would have never said this because the foundation is based on the fact that the rambam is ambiguous and therefore the natural inclination is to go beagle of course there's another big problem according to the what about the middle one if it's like the planet so the middle one was also circular nobody says that it's also hard to understand since the ram doesn't say why assume this over this why when r St that's also hard to understand but certainly there's no admission from the rambam not in his mishna and not in his y take a look at your next Source page fouri has a commentary on the of the Mish let's see what has to say says in all the pictures I see everybody is making the man around it seems like it's a mistake why why not accept rash it was diagonal I heard that this was already spoken about and he writes again here in both of his Works said this is Rashi this is the picture of the r this is unlike those who are making the era according to where it is be Eagle so what do we have here we have here that according to all these sources all the it was we have the and the Ezra who talk about circles but according to many commentators that means something else completely that it was surrounding the middle stem it didn't come up semicir which is very very original and unique no question that opinion a completely third opinion we had the who actually said it was semicircular but based on the omission of the rambam which we now know the rambam was actually very unambiguous and couldn't get more clear than in his depiction and he wrote in both works I'm making a picture I am making a picture okay but what about the Arch of Titus the arch of of Titus I mean if we go back to that Arch of Titus right here you could see it oopsie it's very very clear this is not diagonal this is round so here comes in a new personality you know who this is this is is Herzog R Herzog was the second Chief rabbi of Israel he was born in 1888 I believe in lumja in Poland the family then moved to England and then to Ireland and he became the chief Rabbi of Ireland living in Dublin and in Belfast then he moved T Isel and he replaced RAF cooki became the second Chief Rabbi in ER Isel until his passing in 1959 today's president of Israel is his grandson whose name is named after his grandfather his father was Kim Herz and this was his they call him buzi his name is Isaac he wrote a whole article on it now he was a he was a genius he was a also historian he wrote many interesting works of scholarship and of history and he wrote a in a magazine it was called sini I think in 1956 a few years before he passed away he passed away in 1959 he wrote a whole article about this and he asked this question he says what happened now this is before the manuscript of the rambam came out on the mishas before the manuscript ra came out on theak Rashi was known always Rashi was always there so he says this this is the man of the B mikdash but if herk says you know I have a big problem here forget for a moment the branches we have a much much bigger issue and what is this bigger issue if you take a look at the original picture of the manira and you have it in your Source sheets you could see it up close if you go to the bottom of it the man it's a little hard to see but those who go to Rome and look up close I just made it very big you see that picture on the base of the Mana you know what it is it's a sea dragon it's a sea dragon we have a name for it dark you know what the Mish says the Mish says if you find a vessel and it has on it the image of a dragon you know what you should do with it take it to the Salty Waters usually means the Mediterranean get rid of it why this was a classic image of paganism of idolatry so says I don't understand you're now going to tell me that the in the bikes had a dragon on it when these vessels have to be thrown into the sea so you'll say no if you assume it may have been depicted with that intention but let's say it wasn't depicted with that intention who in their right mind would come take the of the bikes and make such an image on it what is going on here and you can't argue that is a dragon that's what of her asks especially he says in the second temple Jews were very careful with AAR with idolatry they knew what happened with the first Bas because of idolatry the second B they had other issues they didn't get along with each other but they stayed away from and here the second Titus destroyed the second not the first there was a dragon on the man that's ludicrous and then he says what else take a look at the base of the manira what's on the base you see legs no legs right besides the fact that there's a double base we saw the R's picture the gar clearly says the man has legs clearly the says it has legs Rashi says R says there's no legs there's no of a leg what is going on there with ARA this Mana that they slept back suddenly there's a dragon suddenly there's no legs if the artist was making a depiction he did seven branches and even if you look at the branches closely you see that he put in all these designs but here too it's completely different than the original Mina so for example if you look at the middle branch you don't have the three goblets on the top if you look at the middle stem you don't have the three apples the branches that come out from the middle they have to come out from a CF they have to come out from an Apple you don't have it here there's differences in the sizes of the flowers and the apples when in original Mana was All Uniform one of the flowers is upside down unlike the other flowers it's not like the original Mana another fascinating thing is the base of this Mana is around a third from the height of the Mana in the original Mana what tell us the base was three out of 18 the whole man was 18 around the height of a person and the base was three here the base is a third of the height of the Mana what Mana are we talking about here R's questions on this entire premise of this so says I have no choice and I came up with a Dearing Theory and he himself calls it Dearing he writes no no it this is a theory that is no it it's a theory meaning it's Dearing it's original I have no source for it but I'm stuck and what's his theory and actually said it over at and he said it's like a classic Bal says I'll tell you what happened they had toap the Mina from Jerusalem to Italy it's a long journey it's a long Voyage on the way I'll tell you what happened the entire base of the manira fell off they fell off it comes to Rome it's a balum this is titus's pride this is his Joy this is great because the Min was a symbol the Min was the Jewish symbol the even says the was the Jewish symbol and now so I can imagine what he did to the guy who was responsible but that we don't know so if Herz said what happened he's not going to go for a prade and March around the Mana and you're like holding it from one branch another Branch there's nowhere to hold it from you're holding it from the central sticks aast that's it's inappropriate it's not gmak and certainly not for Rome and not Titus and vaspian Rome during this parade which represented that Rome will rule the world for eternity and Rome managed to Vanquish Israel and its God kala Etc so what did he do he gave it to Roman Artisans and he said K he didn't use the word KRA but he says guys I want a perfect job and I want a beautiful candelabra back in time for the parade so they went they took them Min and what did they do they made their own base once they're making their own base of course you put a dragon that's their God of course that's ah all the problems on the top okay you have problems but the big question of the dragon and the base and the disproportionate component of the base versus the Mana I answered with my theory that this indeed is a false Mana this part of the Mana the upper half is the real man the lower half is the fake Mana this is all based on the premise that he needs to say that this is the B mana and therefore the Mana was curved but if we go back to our own sources Rashi doesn't even believe this is the man the r doesn't believe this not not the pictures of the ramb not what would the rambam do here what would the r and Rashi answer if you show this to them how would they deal with it so on one level they would say I don't know go to Rome and figure it out I mean we know this is B and however rash and R determined it based on the truth of the tradition that they received either from generation to generation either from kazal sources either from their interpretation of K you have a question you have a question that's on one level but the truth is it's very possible to say something maybe even simpler and that is maybe this was not the Mana that burnt in the in the that the kindled every single night every single evening it was a different man then you got no issue with the dragon then you got no issue with all the other differences it was a completely different Mana that this artist depicted in the Arch of Titus even though it was made close to theik and he was obviously copying the Mana of the bik to some degree because it has seven branches and it has designs that's true but to say that this was a copy from the original man in the that's what they copied maybe not the Arch of Titus doesn't give marus and the artist and the engraver the sculpture did not have the authority of the Rashi to know exactly what the Mana looked like perhaps and this was a suggestion that was made in a talk on this a very extensive talk that the gave a number of years ago in the 80s 1982 and then 1983 the Mana was such an icon it was such a symbol people were making manura that's why in archaeological discoveries you will see Manus it became a symbol it became an icon and those who were worshiping Idols also copied the manira it was impressive it was brilliant it was engaging it was interesting so this became something that people would make and they would copy the manura to some degree some degree not some degree they didn't have that Precision of that sensitivity or that meticulous that you couldn't care about it wasn't an issue of what God wants what M said what Al is what a is it was ative for beauty very often from a perspective of a Craftsman or a designer this semicircle may be more interesting and more engaging then the diagonal which could sometimes look Bland depends what type of taste you have what type of person you have if you're a square if you're a circle if you're a diagonal person you'll ask your wife that's very possible so this became an icon even made the man and maybe they had a Mana that was made it was brought there they made the picture based on this it's also possible many other Manas were made like this and you know what I was I was doing some research here and I came across a fascinating okay here we have all of our diagonal man of I came across this I don't know how I came across but I came across it somewhere take a look at this you see looks like an innocent Barrel right you see that picture you see the picture that I so historians say that's a manira now you know what this Barrel is unique for it says on this Barrel that it's being dedicated for asera asera is the classic tree that was planted to worship as a God we have it every we have it in tanak we have it inas this Barrel was dedicated for the so this was not a Jewish thing and what's the picture they have on it they have their little Mana you could see this little Mana this is very powerful demonstration of the fact that the manura becomes a symbol and an icon it's used by many people in many different situations but let's go further why would this be paraded in Rome was Josephus so ignorant and so foolish and he got a completely wrong mana and was maybe just the Mana of a plumber in Jerusalem or the Mana of some other Pagan guy in Jerusalem that he slept was this a way that Jews deceived him maybe all these things are possibilities we don't know is it possible they gave him the wrong man is it possible he wanted a different men or he just didn't care there may be also another element the bikes itself had only one man how many manur itself have there was one manur that we're talking about inside the contained in a room that was closed that was locked at night that was covered with roof that nobody was allowed to go into nobody besides a doing the a no tourists were allowed into the H nobody was allowed where the Mana was that was one man that's the unique Mana that was kindled every day in the B every evening evening morning in the but what about the what did they have Manus candelabras tall beautiful candelabras that they used to and the whole Jerusalem was lit up from those Manas what shape were those Manas in we don't know we don't know those were outside of the those were actually in thear in the ezis where men and women and children could go they even had balconies for the women I was giving a lecture this is just in parenthesis a number of years ago I was giving a lecture somewhere so there were questions and answers so there was somebody said somebody said what is your opinion about the kotel about Prayer by the Western Wall should there be she said that means women it's disgusting we're second class citizens I said yeah meet my mother meet my mother-in-law meet my wife you'll see if they're second class citizens by us but it's not nice why do you need segregation so I don't know in you know sometimes Hashem pops something into you I say why do you H think that place is a good place to pray like what's the big deal like why not in your basement or on your porch like or in Zimbabwe or New Zealand or in St maritz like why there she says what do you mean it's the place of the temple it's where my ancestors prayed it's for thousands of years this is the place of the divine presence and this is where they prayed and and and and so I said so I want to honor them I so I said do you know how they did it do you know how they did it so I'll tell you we have a record in the tal tra Suka they built a balcony in a section called the women's section so that there should be boundaries between the men and the women so if you're so honoring this place why don't you just allow the tradition of 2,000 years ago 2500 years ago to continue like oh nobody ever said that but that's where these Manas were they were outside in thear maybe we don't know what they looked like maybe to distinguish them from the main man in the maybe they were made in a completely different shape and also had to be done with many other differences because you're not allowed to there's a mishna you're not allowed to it's a a in in gar and and in ra and you're not let to build the we now let to build a mon replica of the if it's if it's a different number of branches it's fine like eight or five or six that's fine so there has to be differences anyway significant differences and maybe to distinguish maybe they made it round now that would be very respectful for Titus in fact in fact let me ask you a question how many people do you think saw the original Mana the real man in the how many people almost nobody unless you knew where to stand you knew where to stand when the doors were open and the Mana was in the right position an argument of the Mana was went from D to M to if it was from east to west or if it was from south to North from east to west it would have been even harder to see it but if you were in the right position the doors were open and you stood asz is and you could see you may get a glimpse of the manira but from pretty far unless you were a Cen who went into the to do the service and there was one who went in and every morning and every evening a few who went in to do Thea there but that's it nobody else if Titus is making a prey to embarrass and denigrate the Jewish people which monoa would he want to promote the one that everybody saw hundreds of thousands of Jews saw constantly every sukus or other times or the minia that almost nobody saw which one do you think would be more embarrassing the one that became an icon a symbol perhaps it was one of those take a look in Alan I just thought of it as I Was preparing what do we say in Alim when we speak about kanah very strange thing they lit candles in the courtyard of your holy place we don't like the man in the that's not the case the man is in the which is indoors with walls and a roof and it was closed and it was guarded and protected and it was a quarantined Place nobody was allowed to go into the the is not the the is it's the cour it's outside of the and that was Outdoors that's where the outer altar was that's where the washing Basin was that's where people would come to bring offerings and there were different sections for for for men for women there were different sections that's a whole other discussion very hard to understand unless there was some Manas that were in the courtyard that they they didn't light it in the they light it inside some asked this question others asking it's very difficult whoever wrote come on how but it's interesting he doesn't mention nanis the miracle of the Mana he's not talking about the Mana he's talking about lights that they lit to celebrate the occasion Outdoors like I took a look today there's a book called Josephus sa Josephus was a priest he fought the Romans in the North and then he became an accomplice he surrendered to them he became an accomplice he was a brilliant man and a writer Titus took him in and he became the Roman official historian he wrote the books Antiquities of the Jews the wars of the Jews and the book Josephus chapter 95 of yif I see a line and this is what he says and you have it in your Source sheet page four in your Source sheet second to the last Source called a man came to Titus his name was yahushua Joshua the high priest the son of the high priest you know what he has he brings him two Minas from the golden candle abas in the bik two why two where are these two from that's what Joseph oh who's Josephus we're going to start relying on this Jew who became a Roman it's true Josephus you can't always rely on but if there's no intentional what we call in if there's no intentional issue they may you may be able to rely on it's very interesting he brings two candelabras what are these two it's hard to know is this one of the Minas from the courtyard is it from the he is it not from the he why wether two maybe something else the ra chapter 8 writes that every single morning the guards in charge of the protecting the bik is is the man in charge would walk around with torches of fire early morning to make sure everything is fine and everything is set up for the morning service what about chabas morning the rambam says you're not supposed to carry you're not supposed to carry Candles now there's a question in the separate question but what happens on shabas morning so what does the r say the r says they had outside two n two lamps two candleabras where they had burning flames and that's what they would do it with they wouldn't have to carry it around so here we see besides besides the story of Kana we have a whole other issue that every shabas they had something were these the man that they brought to Titus we don't know nobody says it's not clear but to come and say for sure that Titus had the man of the and this will prove that they were semicircular which wanted to do and that's why he came up with the theory that the base was lost and had to be interchanged there's absolutely no conclusive evidence that that's the case even though it could be one of the theories according to this when you look at the archaeological discoveries even from the second temple and you see round Manas yeah there were round Manas there were icons there was symbols were they a copy from the B MD not a copy were they a copy from different Nas was it a similar copy was it a copy what it wasn't perfect you see in all of these archaeological discoveries they don't have all the pict aspects of they don't have the Bas they don't have the legs they don't have the goblets we're not going to conclude that the didn't have these things these were just engravement that people did in their homes or shs maybe it was even people who did not have the authority who didn't even do it in the right way either and then a few years ago soldiers had to C terrorists in a town nearin called it's an Arab town called and one of the soldiers comes in and what does he see this is a city of Jews from the time even before the gamarra the end of the bikes look you see this you see this picture now you see it you see this interesting here is another depiction someone in red in this house near kin what type of Mana diagonal now I'm not going to say I know who it is I was thinking should I tell you it was a who was in the and he had a vacation house in K and he knew what the man really looked like I'm not going to tell you that cuz I don't know anything of that but you see clearly this was also a man at the time and then I take a look and I see look at this guy historians say this was another image of a Mana diagonally so even though we don't have evidence this way or that way K's point the's point K's point shapi frankl's point is that we have Rashi and the ram the two greatest authorities in Judaism who told us what the Mana looked like very clearly unambiguously and thus take a look page four fourth to the last Source page fourth fourth to the last SCE if it's true this is a humble way of saying if all of this is true if it's true wouldn't it be appropriate that all who are depicting a image of the man to show what it looked like in the bik and the Mish should do it the way Rashi said it was and the way the r said it was it's still a little difficult with Rome so I just want to throw in another fascinating piece of History this has to do with another story connected to the tiits this was the forehead plate on the K's forehead that he wore says the came from one ear to another ear it was made of gold it was the width of two fingers and on two lines it saides on the top it said which is hasem on the bottom it saides so when you looked at the ti on the bottom it saides holy to and on top no you don't know what you're talking about I was in Rome I saw that sits remember in the beginning we learned says that sits is in Rome I saw it it was in one line now if you were the authority and you had to determine what that sits looked like which opinion would you take logically who would who would you choose the man says I saw it so you take a look in the the ra says how do you make the tis two lineses one line that line hasem up and he says however if you made it with one line it'ser in fact there was even a time that they did it in one line so says I don't know why didn't the sages retract their opinion they knew Reb is you're not talking about an Arch of Titus where you have Titus you have his brother the mission another son Israel anit trying to defeat the Jewish people and they're engraving an image from someone who brought a man that they believe is he's telling you I saw it so the says next source the knew what the was they knew how the had to be written he says he s okay they didn't think it was a liar but they're not going to retract and that's what the ra accepts but why the are going to say you saw something now give me context is it possible that somebody made a replica of the tis is it possible that the tis was an interesting icon that people wanted to copy is it possible that there was a Jewish conspiracy to hide the real sits maybe yeah maybe not maybe you saw the real we have a source that this is the this is didn't have that Source he says no I have to go according to my vision this is how the Mi explains it this is even when you have testimony from a Jewish Sage who says I saw it with the man we don't have that we don't have rear coming and saying I saw in Rome the man theik we have a manura depicted on the arch that has branches in a particular way with a dragon and now we need to figure out which Mana that was and now the theories abound don't we have he doesn't say it was round he says they were facing the middle one yeah he doesn't shim says the Mana was in Rome no he saw the Mana not the picture of the Mana no yeah but the real man not yeah yeah oh yeah it looks like it yeah he says I saw the man and was facing the middle that's what said over there too I should mention there's a commentary on who was killed in the warto one of the greatest in Poland and he says that this is what the says and it argues with a med that says the Mona was hidden but assuming the man was taken to Rome what happened to that Mana where is the Mana assuming the sits was also taken to Rome same thing with the sits and the still held on to their tradition and here we come to closure for starters you have to love the Jewish people 2,000 years later we're debating the shape of the Mana but this is what the Jewish people are the Mana is alive in our imagination in our souls in our hearts like the bikash is alive in our imagination in our souls in our hearts in our prayers in our experiences in our spiritual lives that was very moving to me and I want to share this with you and then I want to add a few words just of my own imagin my own explanation of it at least from my own humble perspective till now it just seems like a real question of what should be embraced enthusiastically wholeheartedly even if there may be a question here or a question there especially in context of everything we spoke about the question is does it does it really matter outside logically when you're making your you can make any type of Kan man when you're making a picture of the Mana you can make any picture of the Mana you want so the truth is as the Reb said it should be the real thing should be like the Mikes granted but in this talk of the he added one more very emotional component which I thought is worthwhile to share with you and it's going to be in your next Source it's said this in 1982 and it's printed it's in yish I want to read it you have it here on your screen and I'll translate a few paragraphs that's goodish we can assume that what made this circular picture of the Mana so famous was the picture of the Mana on the Arch of Titus which was designed in Rome by non-jews on the portal of victory of Titus when tius destroys the he brings back the vessels to Rome the G says in G he went into a boat he brought back the vessels in his honor they made for this wicked person a portal of Victory a sh of Victory Port the sh the the Arch of Titus there they make a picture of them carrying the vessels of the B mikdash including the Mana where you have these semicircular branches you the whole point of this Arch was built to demonstrate the defeat of Judea the victory of Rome and in fact his brother made a coin this is another fascinating piece he made a coin take a look at this coin you see what it says judaa capta you know what that means Judah is in captivity Judah was captured and take a look at the other side of the coin this is vpan who destroys the bikes and look at the image in Judea cap what do you see on one side of a tree a Jew is sobbing on the other side of the tree is the roman soldier dominating him this was their image Juda cap and that was the whole point of the arch so the re says so here the in his vintage style says there's another very emotional element here we're going to use the arch of titis to tell us what our Mana should look like when this entire Mana was engraved to tell us that our history is done we're finished we're vanquished besides the fact that it's antithetical to Rashi and the ram these are our people these are our sages it's almost like this is what we're going to embrace an image that comes from a place that it's entire days onra was in order to mock to denigrate to put down the Jewish people he says what is the real focus of the Mana the Mana is there to remind the Jew that his or her job is to be to create light in the whole world to be the light for all the nations to be the Divine Beacon of moral Clarity light hope love truth authenticity Holiness Integrity to the entire world like the gar says this is the testimony to the whole world that the dwells among is that's what the Mana brings out in the Jew that's what the Mana represented and by the way and this is parenthesis I'm going to give it only 40 seconds in all the pictures of the r there's something very very strange what is it the goblets are upside down you remember you saw this take a look even ra says over here the rambam was working very fast he wasn't meticulous but rapak with all due respect in every picture of the rambam he has the goblets upside down why couldn't he make the goblets regularly they were called kisis alexandrium alexandrian Cups they're narrow on the bottom broad on the top but the ROM turns them over to say that 20 22 times the r made this mistake why he couldn't do it the other way 22 times in all of the pictures that we have including the original manuscript the following this perspective says this is what the ram felt really either again he had a med who had a tradition and the logic behind it is because the whole point of the Mana is to be a source of light you have a barrel where you keep water or a drink a beverage what's the purpose of a cup not not to keep it in the cup to drink it how do you drink a cup you turn it over you turn it over that's how you get the water down into the system the purpose of the mono was to hydrate the world to illuminate the world to spread light in the world so the ra made the Goblet this way so now back to the discussion of the Arch of Titus the says this Mana which is supposed to be made and in which is supposed to inspire this purpose mission statement of the Jew to be says you're all lighted unto the Nations it reminds us the moment when they were telling the Jewish people your light is extinguished God forbid forever Judea cap and if I may add both collectively and individually I think and here we always have to ask a very very deep question who's going to tell me what my Mana is supposed to look like everybody is a Mana you you you you me all of us everyone is a man everybody is a source of light for yourself and for your world for your loved ones and for the world for the Jewish people and for the world a light for the Nations and it begins with your own light a light inside yourself like the mono was burning and then it radiated light outside of the as well through the windows and you have to ask the question who tells me who dictates what my Mana is going to look like what type of light I'm going to give out what chemistry what structure what curvatures or lack of them will why Mana possess sometimes sadly Rome tells us what AM is going to look like and this is the message here Rashi and R tell you what a Mana looks like Rashi and ra represented Purity truth Holiness Integrity authenticity let them tell you what your Mana is supposed to be how your light can shine and should shine but sometimes Titus theasian the mishan or the other people who built this Arch can psychologically and emotionally dictate to me what my manura is going to look like sometimes Rome tells me how to Kindle my manura and sometimes the message istically I need to go in circles I need to curve I need to cut Corners my curvature has to become bent my monoa has to become crunched my height my structure has to be caved in I have to become emotionally or spiritually or psychologically Hunchback Rome is going to tell you what you man should look like somebody asked me in the beginning of the class RAB why how are you going to connect this to emotional healing how like you going to do like just history so I said Hashem will help me I don't mean hear the physical R what happens to us Stories We Tell ourselves are stories other people tell us sometimes influence consciously or unconsciously what our own manura looks like and we become a bent Mana a bent out of shape going in circles beating around the bush scared of confronting and facing our to be straight don't let anybody Define your man not consciously and not unconsciously let Rashi Define it let the ra Define it let Define it let let your soul Define your the power the depth the greatness of your candelabra of your source of light for yourself and others we live in a generation that people often allow their Manas to be eclipsed to be covered over to be blocked not their fault it's what we're used to if I'm spending so much time in my psychological real what else do I know about Tide Is defined what my man is going to look like stand straight don't bend to try to fit in the world wants your full light but I think think as important as it is individually this is also very very important collectively one of the greatest tragedies of modern Jewish history is that we look to Rome and whatever Rome represents to tell us what Arman is supposed to look like instead of Rashi and the ram instead of M and God we look to Rome to agree that our light is kosher that our man is the right Min that we're going to do it the right way instead of the Jewish people understanding you were chosen to be a moral light onto the nations of the world and even as we're in Exile and we were exiled but the inner minority of the Jewish people Burns brightly that's the whole reason for anti-Semitism when it comes to an issue like the land of Israel and why we're in the land of Israel and defeating the enemies who want to destroy the land of Israel when the Jewish people learn to be a manura that's not curved That's Not Bent that's not suppressed that's not repressed that's not crushed but one that shines brightly with authenticity it's light it's not embarrassed of the truth it's not embarrassed to tell the world it's not a joke that God gave a land to the Jewish people it's not a joke it's not a comedy thing it's not up for a un vote it's a real thing it's as authentic as the sunrise in the morning and even more authentic it's not even ours to give away it's an eternal gift of the creator of the world to the Jewish people absolutely and unequivocally the world respects this the world is eager to hear a message of clarity of morality of authenticity in this and in every other aspect after 1,954 years the Jewish people are ready for the return of the real mana and to be able to light it Illuminating ourselves and the entire world with the Eternal Light of the G of the Redemption with mhia may it be speedily and now at this Tish amen thank you we don't have a what right so how did ra rash know this so it could be a few things could be that they interpreted the word K I said usually means a straight line right or they had a source a medish that never reached us how is thereit facing one other way it's a circle you can't face right right so apparently he has that's not the only problem it says in gamar we have clearly that the the candles were in a line so that's that's a bigger problem but Ezra has his way of interpreting it's his own unique way he sometimes diff from the starts in the morning not at night it saying there's different ways of interpreting we don't accept azra but I would say even ezzar is not posing a challenge because he's not even saying this he's saying a completely different Theory mug of has a commentary on Med called a fresh Olive says this he said it on said the crown he explains the and says that's what evanz means it's obvious that's what he means that it was around and around it can't be exactly because says it was a full Crown says it was a half a crown so if you looked up it looked like a half a moon the whole man looked like a half a moon like a life a shabas life with a middle and rounded halfway are six branches it was an interest no no nobody says G you already have not that so it's interpretation in also held that so theet used the symbol based on the Arch of Titus the symbol of Israel the Kess they used the Arch of Titus that's Israel runs today and that's what I think that's part of what upset the RAB that that's what they were using actually have hero who was a chief Rabbi also criticizes that why you're using that when the second half is completely uh fabricated cuz even he holds the second half is fabricated why why when there Rec creating the Cale using the base like that I think I think people are just used to the round and it's just entrenched that this is the way it is but it's not anybody who does you see it's not mean Herzog held Herzog held that it was but he didn't see the manuscripts of whoever saw the the later manuscripts right away said you have R and Rashi there was one person who wrote there is the man who he heads so he argues that from all the archaeological discoveries most of them are round and therefore you have to go with round Rashi says he says that in Greek Al could mean round and Rashi knew Greek it's a nice Theory but Rashi in when he uses the word he means diagonal for example when you sprinkle the blood he says you sprinkle it one corner and then you do B and when Rashi writes words in another language he says it's a different language so he doesn't say in Greek so it's it's it's it's a far-fetched Theory I still I still think rash doesn't it's was trying to explain so this is like a shin like a shin trying to say that's not like this right but then you're going to say right saying second one yeah don't think it's straight right B and don't think doesn't have say yeah is completely try say that it's not like this it's not far it's it's it's coming to the top but it's long Al means that it has to be it's round but but I'm saying usually when you say alash you could look it means diagonal it means straight mean straight diagonal it means he's trying to say like this inclined it means don't not straight he says you says you sprinkle the blood on one corner it means that the blood has to be straight the blood Corner cross but then it it has to go straight it can't that that it's not curved I mean it's not straight it stops in this picture it doesn't come Oh you mean doesn't come all the way to the top I mean of course said that the said that so he ra says don't quote don't said like that but still in the picture it can't and then how would the oil light in the diagonal way it had to be no no everybody stra for the oil to stand straight not to fall out just at at the end it was straight yeah so how is it says it or or or I think actually I saw two opinions about that that it straightened out or that they centered the baz whatever the cup they put in that they centered that they had to Center that had to be straight that they took it off that's another argument if the containers were attached or not attach that's a whole other argument it's not so the pointing windows in the also a narrow on the inside the windows were narrow on the outside we're now on the inside and wide not match the point down yeah yeah yeah idea yeah theb said that because Rashi says usually you make a window cuz you want the light to come in so you make the window broad on the inside now we on the outside so the light spreads but here the point was the light should go out so you made the windows narrow on the inside and Broad on the outside that's why the cones are facing down it's interesting that the r turned over the that's like unique this is this is the idea that's why I turned it over yeah yeah for you the they found a lot of manuscripts of the RA in Egypt and also in Yemen they found so so so then then it contradicts no but not the the had to remain inside says that they out bizar so you could bring the man outside and then put it back in that's the theory that's why he says Wasing also was he wasi because was the next day that's he is the reason they made it eight days like the was because since you're not to make a replica of the it would be seven days people would make seven Branch Monas and they could come to make a replica so they made eight days so nobody would make a replica of the huh yes I'm saying also you have to be careful you have to be careful no but if it's if it's building the structure of the man that was the if it was something that had to be in theik right yeah but if it's something right that if you put this if you put it in your you couldn't do it in the then you could do it it has to be something that would have been a if you make with seven branches that you could use it even in the you're not allow but if it's something you wouldn't be able to use in the doesn't have to be perfect yeah for example the ra huh not for example has to be gold but if you don't have gold you can make from other metals but then the says you don't have to have all the and the if you do other medals the didn't have a man the G says what did they do they took eight they took are like spits sticks yeah yeah they took eight and that's what they used it was wood another it wasn't wood they covered it with the it was it was really was really metal and they got wealthier they used silver they got wealthier they used gold by the way here you also see that it was straight ask can I ask you how do you know what do you mean that has to be straight maybe it's has to beap how do you know a is straight a con straight straight every I mean most cases a con straight could be blown by the wind if it's blown by the wind how do you know the mean straight means diagonal that's the diagonal like this that's what says says I don't see that you can't prove means that's what trying to explain you trying to explain means from here to here but if it's straight I think is usually meant as a straight diagonal say says the in Rome shim said he saw the Min in Rome he was just saying that the six branches were facing the six were facing the middle he doesn't get involved probably means that's my assumption but I don't know for sure same also says clearly that they're making a mistake who who who else spoke wrote about it the spoke about it writes about it a few places that it's a big mistake to do it any other way Frank outside it's outside I don't know I don't know first so could be could be could be maybe Titus got one of those the question is if it was huh the dragon you have a problem no the drag no the Mana there wasn't a dragon you just say when they engraved it they added a dragon the Mana didn't have a dragon on the on the if it was of course it didn't have a dragon but they would say they added a dragon but the issue then is you have to say that built different than rash says in was exactly like also says like but there is a theory like that there's a the that it was and that's why it wasn't it wasn't that shape does that one of the they sent one Jew that wasn't so there to bring he went inside he went B the yeah he was inside he went in the he bought the he didn't want to go and he gave it to them and then he said no this is the then obviously so he was taken that's the Greek that's the B I think that wasn't yeah was a second was yeah so he went he went stay in kulture because came out blood didn't bring any whatever was he went into the says he went into I don't remember and it also says in that the Rome has and it says so he he didn't see it but we don't shim saw but we don't know that that was the Arch of Titus doesn't say what shim says he saw the not he saw the arch oh I he saw the arch shim lived much longer after the the arch because he was lived The Next Century so Sly he got access to the man according to this it's not so clear what happen I know what you know say everything was making it was that's it yeah but there's also had to bring spits if the still in the second why didn't they just use one of the Min of so you have to say that the didn't have access to a golden Min huh no but then the says when they got they made silver and then years later when they got wealthy they finally got gold the once they were M after the bring you have to say that the or somebody stole they were gone or maybe by ready so then tittis didn't have them I think he wanted to use reverse psychology tit because tittis didn't want to show the real mon because in case they ever want to build again they should build it wrong he didn't want because interesting let them think because I'm getting rid of everything I'm melting everything wow so tit on when we rebuild it it should be wrong so that that say he says that's the Kos of the Reb don't make this mistake so how do you know the cops was like this you say the R I don't know the pictures of I believe you CS be like this for why are upside down no no the no the stick is it's a separate part of the sep part of the when you drink it it's upside down question is why didn't the make the cups like when you put on a table yeah that was the question this is the question says that the r was not M but it's doesn't make sense because the r does it in every single picture that we have he's there 22 times he makes's noash never made a there's no we don't have only from the should be take thank you than you I'm better what you say oh the very detailed of her soog her suggest that one of the that they fell off the go