Rabbi Yossi Goldin - Tefila Dorisa: How Many Times Daily?

staying uh warm and uh dry as the uh as the winter season has kicked in and um of course as always just a reminder that all of our learning should be as a for for all of specifically for all those who have been injured um to be a seula that our hostages should should come home speedily and we should continue remember that that the that the power of our learning and and and of our doing uh can hopefully go a long way in bringing good news to am Israel what we're going to do today is uh a bit of a what I call a bit of a transitional Shear um it's a little bit more technical than I think most of our sh usually are but I think it's part of the process of what we're we're doing what we what we've been doing since we since what we've been doing the last couple of weeks was we had originally we we started with a series on why we dove in and now my goal is to basically take you on a bit of a journey trying to understand the process of how we got what was what was initially commanded as part of the Mitzvah of and how we got to where we are today so last week we we we we we discussed the major question of whether or not there is a Mitzvah a Biblical commandment to DAV and we saw between the r and the ran and regarding whether or not there is a mitz d is daving on a Biblical level an opportunity or an obligation and we analyzed that saw different a number of different understandings regarding regarding that and I'd like to do this week and next week is try to get to okay so if there is a Biblical obligation which we saw is a mes but if there is a Biblical application how do we get to then what we do today which is daving three times a day and today is a bit of a transitional sheer where most of theim and many of the commentaries seem to agree with the r which is that there is a Biblical obligation to DAV that is the standard approach we saw not everyone agrees the r does not agree but many of the maim and many of the commentaries seem to assume like the r that there is a biblical biblical obligation to DAV so then the question becomes if there is a Biblical obligation to Davin how many times a day biblically should am I obligated to Davin meaning where did was three times a day a Biblical obligation is it or did that develop later on and that's what we're going to do today is we're going to explore a number of different positions regarding as I wrote here how many times daily if we agree with the ran if we agree with myones which many MIM do that there is a Biblical obligation to Davin the question then becomes how what how do we Define how do we M what exactly that obligation is and that's what we're going to do today we're going to see a few different opinions regarding how regarding how many times daily we may be obligated biblically to to doin now if you were here last week you may be thinking to yourselves wait a second we already know the answer to that question because the rambam who we saw last week answers that question and that's what we're going to start with the first opinion and probably the main opinion regarding this question is that of the r and the ram is we're going to see in a minute and as we did see last week as well the Raam is of the opinion that on a Biblical levela the only amount of time that you have to dve in every single day is how often and remember once a day once a day the biblical obligation according to the ra is that on a daily basis a person should make sure to pray to God one today let's look at source number one we're going to see it again because very fundamental to everything that we're doing says the r in Source number one it is a Biblical it is a positive obligation a positive commandment to D in every day as the says and you should serve Hashem your God we learned from the Tor from the oral law that the a that's referenced in this refers to how do we know because the in says you should serve God with all of your heart what is this what is it what does it mean okay so these are the sources we've seen before we see from these sources that there is a Biblical obligation to dve into every single day continue use the ra the underlined part there is no set amount of doing that you have to do biblically and there's no repetition or there's no there's no specific Tor there's no specific definition org is is the the right word um I'm losing my English forgive me there is no specific parameters parameters is probably the best word for ding there's also no set time according to the r the Mitzvah is daving once a day when you DAV what you say and how often you do it is is up to you it just means you should do it once a day continues the r Source number two therefore because it is not something that is time bound this is the Ram's opinion we're going to hopefully see this at some point we'll explore a little bit more the obligation of women and daving but the opinion of the ram is that since mid biblically there is no time that you have to D in that means it is not considered a Time bound Mitzvah and if it's not a Time bound Mitzvah then women are also obligated in it as well it is a that is not time bound this is the Mitzvah says the r what is the biblical mitah you should plead and dve into every day you should praise him every single day and then you should ask for the things that you need with requests so you should start with praise then you go to request and then you go to thanks someone pointed out last week that what is the ram describing where do we see this order in our this is exactly what we do we begin which is the main F we begin with we begin with praise then we move on to bakha and then we move on to thanks okay there's nothing greater there's nothing more beautiful in hearing the sound of be of wonderful children so I apologize if it's let's keep that perspective in mind I will try to be louder but to hear the voices of beautiful children is there's nothing we can't we can't we can never take that for granted um okay continues the r in defining how he understands the Mitzvah if he's somebody who who's used to ding who doav all the time then you can doav a lot of times and if you're somebody who's just you know you don't you have trouble speaking or you're not the kind of person that talks a lot then then d as much as you want whatever you want to say whenever you want whatever you want same thing regarding the amount of time everybody should do what works for them based on their abilities they will some that will D in once a day excuse me some Will D in more depending on their personality we know there are some people who just naturally will feel that connection that the zire to to DAV and there are some who will will do will will will do with with with one time a day he does add that when you D you should facing the wherever you are this is the way it was says the ra this was the Mitzvah from Moshe the biblical commandment until all the way down to Ezra and as we're going to see hopefully in future weeks once Ezra comes along the the the way that we envisioned daving change the way that daving was changed dramatically so according to the r the Mitzvah is if we're gonna if we were to ask what is the biblical mitah according to it's once a day whenever you want whatever you want now many try to understand where the ram got this from okay it's one thing to say that the ram understood because there a p in the Torah that you can interpret to say that that means that that there's a mitz for DAV to say that there's a MIT for DAV makes sense how does the r know that it's only once a day where does he get that from there's no explicit Source in the Torah and so the MIM on the ram try to understand where he got this from so look at source number two Source number two is the KF mishna the KF mishna is one of the main commentaries on the rambam actually written by R Ciro the author of The and the author of the B he wrote one of his first one of his first Works was an interpret a commentary on the rambam the K mishna and he says the following Source number two where does the ra get where does he get this idea that it's once a day why not once a week why not five times a day where does the ramam get this from so he says he gets from it's the source is from the fact that that that the Torah refers or the r understands to that to be connected to says the it makes sense that if you're referring to a service to God in order for you to have a meaningful service to God how often should that be there should be consistency to it what would be a base of consistency every single day says why because if not if if if you don't Define it as every day because you have a choice if you're going to say that there's no real definition then maybe you could you would suggest okay person could D once once in their entire lifetime is that called aod is that called service to God no service to God has to be consistent and if we were to ask what's the most basic form of consistency the ram understood in order to to have a basic form of service to a higher being the r understood that that has to be every single day to say that it's only once once in your lifetime makes no sense and therefore the ran picked the most basic form of what we would call aod service and he and he interpreted it to be every single day concludes the the obligation must be to D every single day but how many times a day that's not once a day okay so the's basic explanation is where did the ram get this from logic Logic the ram connects it to the aod to our service to God if you were to have if you want someone to have a consistent service to somebody how often would that need to be it would every day make sense because otherwise you're leaving it up to a person's mood once a week once a month once and therefore the ram understood it to be if part of our overall AEM once a day makes sense that's the KF mish's interpretation however there's another beautiful interpretation of the kirat saer the kirat saer is another commentary on the ram not one that's on the actual text of the R so he's a little bit well less welln and he understands it to be based on one of theim that the ran brings for the source to David look at source number three says the k regarding the R's opinion that every day you are obligated it must be based on the fact that one of theim that the r quotes as the source for the concept of daving is a PUK that we've quoted what is the PUK the PUK says that if that if you dive into hasem will then provide you with water and with bread if you look at source number five I brought you I brought you this the the says the says if you serve Hashem then Hashem will give you water and bread and take away all illness says the Kat the following idea the source for davening one of the sources is the PK that compares daving to receiving food says the R Used logic how often does a person need to eat once a day and therefore if you need to eat once a day and that's the P that's being brought the ram concluded that therefore uming is once a day as as as as theer concludes this is a need every single day so too doing is every single day now those of you who are thinking excellent good excellent excellent excellent you want you can we usually eat three times a day in Israel you eat five times a day because you have and then you have snack right it's like uh you know we're eating a lot so that's good excellent the truth is some are going to question this specifically based on your point because wait a second we eat three times a day or even if we don't say three times a day back in the back in the times of the gar was usually understood that they would eat two times a day so there are some that are going to actually question this Source based on that but that's the Kat sa the Kat basically k seems to understand that is basically like how much do you need to like function on on a daily basis eat once a day and if you eat once a day that's also how much you need to you need to dive in yes so it's an excellent excellent question you are there's no question that the word in the general context refers to so first of all I think I think you're number number one it's because what what many people point to is we what we mentioned in the r which is that in another it says the says what which do you do with all of your life that's so meaning at least in the P where it says that seems to clearly be referring to daving and other interpretate then other people will say well once that aod refers to this one does too but I would I would say even more than that I think you're right because if you remember last week we noted how the r when he lists in thez he lists the Mitzvah to DAV he doesn't phrase it as Mitzvah number five is to DAV what does he say Mitzvah number five is to serve hasem to serve hasem in all of what it means but he said the expression of how we do that is doing meaning there's no question that a could also mean corote could mean doing all the mitv it could be all of that but the way we're understanding it is that is one of the main expressions of how of of how of how we show that aod although I agree that I think the ramban would suggest that f is meant to be seen as not just its own Mitzvah but as part of our overall framework for aod so it's I think it's a good question but I think it's based on on on those two things number one that elsewhere it says which seems to indicate daving number two I think it is part of an overall framework but the but because of the P of they believe it to be referring specifically this a unique expression of DAV but I think it is part I think one of the most important things we have to remember is that doing is meant to in the end of the day not be seen in a vacuum but it's meant to enhance everything we do it's meant to enhance all of our it's meant to enhance the way we we approach life it's meant to enhance the way we do the rest of our it's meant to enhance our that's what daving is meant to be that time as we've spoken about where we're able to take a step back and remind ourselves of what's important and I think that's that's crucial excellent question excellent question again the question was if refers to then what does it mean the continuation of the is so it's a very good question the when the when the quote the PK they focus more on the on on the on the but I think what they're saying is exactly your point which is you should serve him forgive me if I'm getting the exact words you're supposed to serve him in all of those ways refers to might refer to something else and might refer to something else they're all referring to different types of but what's clear is you have a Biblical commandment or at least according to the r to serve God which is which is it could be mean something else it could mean it could mean could mean it could mean all all different types of things it's a very good question but I think that's the point is that there are different aspects to it yes that's 100% I think the fact that they call it aodha believe absolutely points to the fact and that's true that fundamentally tilila is not meant to be just a physical action but it's meant to be coming from the heart correct yes 100% And there many people talk about that we I mean I don't know if remember if we mentioned this or not but talks about there are some where there is What's called theah the act of the Mitzvah and then there's the the Fulfillment of the Mitzvah okay some very often the and the Mas are the same when you shake the lul love you do the M you do the action and as you do the action you fulfill the Mitzvah then there are certain mitzvot whereas there's the act of the Mitzvah and then the way you fulfill it what example does he bring he brings the example of chuva okay there's the action you do all the things that we've done but what's real CH feeling it inside there's the and then there's the the same thing as with what's the what's the action we do of saying the words but what's the real the real fulfillment of the Mitzvah the kavana what what we think about you're so you're 100 100% correct that the fact that they call it aash already tells us what f is all about yes 100% 100% okay so so we've seen two explanations for the ram two explanations for the how did they know that it was once a day either because logic it's connected to a and you have to do a on a daily basis or it's because the p Compares it to eating and at least according to the fundamental this this approach eating is done on a daily basis go on your day that already sets the tone absolutely absolutely although as we're going to see in the future when we when we talk about hopefully next week we talk about the idea about the the real basis behind doing three times a day we need we need reminders throughout the day you're 100% correct that part of why we start with Mod is that it sets the tone and that's why shakaris is done that's why the first F has to be in the morning before you do anything else but the reason you need more than that is because at the end of the day the further we go from our daving the less we stay connected and that's that's the idea behind well yes that's that's that's a very very good point the um in Source number four I brought you a push from R PLO is a was a was a r in Poland in the late in the late 1800s early 1900s uh and he wrote a commentary on R's list of the mitzvot we mentioned last week that there are many that everyone agrees that there are 613 mitzvot but there is a Big M there's a big argument as to what those 613 are so the ran was the one who wrote the most famous has this What's called the where he lists all the the is another another commentary that wrot list of of of the 63 MIT and one of the other well-known ones was RA raon who also has a commentary on the Kash and and is was was a well-known philosopher he also has a list of his 613 mitzvot the pro the challenge with his list is that it's very very very concise we're going to see an example of it soon he does list as one of his 63 MIT but it's very concise and there's no commentary on it comes who was a a in Poland in in the late 1800s early 1900s and he writes this tremendously detailed long commentary on Ron's list of the mitv and he has a whole analysis regarding this question of how many times is there how many times biblically does a person need to D in every single day he mentions the rambam he's we're going to see soon he argues on the rambam he disagrees with the rambam but one of these suggestions he makes is where does the rambam get this from where does the ram understand that it's based on every single day he says well if you look at one of theim the in that we talked about before it says right before that it talks about the mitvah of that you should teach your children which is reference to what kind of Mitzvah the Mitzvah and of learning Torah says it's the same that talks about and talks about the Mitzvah of DAV how often does a person need to D in every single day he says once a day and therefore if have to learn once a day and in the same P it talks about davening the rambam learned from there that you have to only D in once a day that's Rish perlo's suggestion okay so we have three interpretations this was I'm not we didn't see it inside but that's Source number four three different interpretations where does the ram get this from where does the ram get from the concept that you only have to dive in once a day biblically either it's because logic as mishna said or it's because it's connected to eating in the pasuk and the p and we we eat on a daily basis or the third interpretation is it's connected to to to learning Torah and since there a commandment to learn Torah every single day so too there is a mitz in every single day that is that is the first opinion that we've seen so far that's the r okay so the first opinion that we've seen regarding how often a person needs to D that is the r however as I mentioned before in his commentary onon disagrees fundamentally with r he thinks there is a Biblical commandment to Davin twice a day that you actually have to dive in twice a day where does he get this from so the first the main source for this concept is Source number seven we're going to skip to Source number six for for now Source number seven now Source number seven is a mishna and AAR that is very very detailed and for the sake of clarity we're not going to go into the specifics of this gar and this mishna because it's a very confusing sugya but trust me when I when I just basically say in some the gamar is discussing when a person needs to dve in Min and when a person needs to dve in what we call now you're thinking we only have Kipper the truth was that in the times of the gar there were other times that they would D in when else did they in anyone know on a fast day exactly on a fast day the mid hug was Whenever there were not not the fast days that we know of but there used to be public fast days if there wasn't any rain if there was any kind of tragedy or there wasn't rain then the rabbis of the community would declare a fast day and they would dve in on those days as well so the gar is discussing the obligation to D and it's also discussing the obligation to DAV and the gar differentiates and says in a certain case you should DAV but you don't DAV again without getting into all the details of the specific case the gamar says you should D you shouldn't D asks the gar in Source number seven we're in Source number seven where it says it's the part we're skipping the mishna for now asks the what's the difference why are you differentiating between and between why are you saying that in this specific circumstance we should dve in but we shouldn't dve in answers the T because one of them is tor what does Tor literally mean bibl and the other one is only which is usually a reference to so what the gar seems to do is differentiate between which is which is biblical in nature and which even when we do say it on Fast days is only it's only RAB look at Rashi in his interpretation T what does it mean what what is what isashi says what's what's mid isid is biblical where do we get that from because we have a we have a wellknown which we're GNA go over again today but we've seen it many of you are familiar with it the famous that compar that talks about where we get where do we get the idea of ding three times a day from the is between whether it comes from the aot or it comes from the corote okay if it comes from the aot the gar itself brings what is the P what is thear tell us thear brings the P that established shakar established and yov established Mar and for each of those the gar brings a look at the look at Rashi again as we say in established as the says this was last week's para this past week's para went out to Converse in the field LIF note arev as it approached the evening okay so say the Rashi that shows us because it brings a to tell us about that shows us that D is that is biblical in nature whereas says rash is only is only going to be so the simple reading of this Rashi is that and is actually biblical in nature which would mean that we have a Biblical commandment seemingly to DAV shakaris and to DAV DAV twice a day is actually a Biblical commandment so some people will say those who want to defend the ram will say no you're misunderstanding this Rashi when when did rash mean that if you never daved Shak right says the ker in Source number eight no this when when the gamar said when Rashi said and understood the gamar to say that is that wasn't if you've already daved if you had it yet so then why because you need to D once a day but that's how the k but that's not the simple understanding of Rashi the simple understanding of Rashi is that that in that tells us that we learn the from the aot what is it telling us it's telling us that each of those are biblical in nature and therefore is biblical in nature okay and this is what understands in if you look at source number eight I quoted you the Mitzvah that ra mentions again raon who was a philosopher he was also a linguist he writes his mitz in like almost poetic form he doesn't like list them and say Mitzvah not like the r which was very organized Mitzvah Al is this he wrote like it's almost like a poem and every line refers to a Mitzvah so the second Mitzvah that that the brings is you should serve him in comes pin writes a extremely long essay trying to understand what does that mean how many many times do you need a D in according to what is the text what's the what's the r and that's what he goes and he has an entire analysis but first he quotes the RAM and he rejects the ram he questions the ram first quotes the r and what does he say in the r he says the r thinks the mitvah is only to David once a day where does the ram get that from so he quotes the opinion that says it came from the fact that it's connected to getting food and how often do we eat once a day so I don't understand who eats once a day look at the second paragraph look at the second paragraph not only that by the way he brings he brings a proof that Hally you're supposed to eat more than once a day you'll see it in the second in the second par the first paragraph he quotes the r second paragraph he says wait a second this doesn't make according to the Ram's logic if that's the reason why he says it that it's based on eating that the pule that connects us to eating we have to ask a question IM k we should be able to learn more than one time from that why because if you look at the skip to the underline part if you're going to connect it to eating then the ram should have concluded that there is aah at least twice a day once the first four hours of the day because that is the morning and then of course again at night again the next underlined part we're in the second underlined part of the second paragraph This is what people do says what do people usually do they eat twice a day so if your logic is based on comparing it how often we eat we should have the obligation biblically to dve in twice a day where does he get it that it's only once a day and then he adds even something more he says I'll tell you how I know that you're supposed to eat twice a day because there is a mishna in Suka the mishna in Suka talks about how many meals does a person need to eat in the Suka and the mishna says explicitly that according to the opinion there's a m do you have to eat only the first night in the Suka or do you have biblically or all or all seven days and according to the opinion that says you have to eat all seven days it says how many meals do you need to eat in the 14 meals which means that Hally how often is a person when we talk about meals meaning on yto on how often are you supposed to eat you're supposed to have two meals a day two meals a day once in the evening and once at night and therefore Sayo sorry what did I say thank you once at night once in the evening and once in the morning and therefore okay yes what do you mean ah so okay so good so then and then so then R Perlo takes this a step further and says well based on this logic if it's all based on connecting it to the PUK so then what happens on chabis on chabis you have three times a day so maybe you should be obligated to David three times a day and then he actually says you know what there are some people who say that the of mus is actually biblical in nature why would that be he says maybe it's because of this idea that on chabis you're supposed to eat three times a day and there are some who say on yum you should eat more so meaning what what plow is pointing out is that the second you compare or you suggest that the ram bom's logic is based on a connection to the PK of when you eat it becomes a little bit complicated because then the question becomes well what is what well what happens when you're supposed to eat three times a day or what happens on a fast day does that mean you don't have to D on a fast day because you don't have to eat so again the simple answer to this to all of his questions for the ramam if we if we were trying to defend the ramam what would we suggest we're talking about a regular day of a regular person you it's not that every single day your your your obligation to Dove it is going to depend on well that day how many times are you going to eat right because when you're younger and you're eating more does that mean you have to Dove it no the ram was just trying to use parameters and the parameter was if we compare it to the PUK of eating most people in order to function need a minimum of eating one time a day and that's where the ramom got it from but Raa was taking this in in a different direction and saying well again depending how far you want to take the comparison okay so that's just again that's but then then he says I'll give you another defense of the rambam maybe the ram got one time a day because he Compares it to we saw this earlier this is actually Puro who said this Compares it to tal Torah right we said that the PK refers to learning Torah earlier in the PK and then later it talks about daving maybe the comparison just like you have to learn every single day so to youav every single day say that also doesn't fit in well because actually if you do if you look through the sources there actually is an obligation to learn how many times a day twice a day the obligation the fundamental obligation for a person to learn Torah is once in the morning and once in the evening you guys are all set because what most people don't realize is that your yod say that by that by saying what's the minimum type of learning we can do on a daily basis saying the kma when we say shma in the morning and those of us who say shma either at night in Marv or before we go to sleep you've at least you've at least fil fulfilled the obligation of minimal D minimal but says Rulo again the ram doesn't make sense if it's based on learning it should be twice a day and therefore you should be twice a day so therefore rlo leaves all of these as questions on the RAB and he ends with the following paragraph if we skip to the last the last paragraph where he now explains his understanding of how often a person needs to DAV biblically and this is how he thinks understands everything I've been saying until now saysa was all according to the ram who thought it was once a day According to which is reference to that it's not just the obligation to is once a day but the amount is also where does the where does get the idea where for those of you who are not don't know where we are I apologize we're in Source number eight the final paragraph the final paragraph the first the first C of lines Source number eight the final paragraph according to those according to where does he know that you know how often you need to D it's because of in the way that he phrased the Mitzvah was you should serve with says what does it mean why does the ra why does why does use the word what does aod refer to serving Hashem it also refers to a reference to Corban how many corbon note were brought on a daily basis fundamentally two two at least two right we always there were two there was theb was brought in the morning what's called the and the one in the morning and one in the afternoon and therefore says says R because that's what the Compares it to the Corban not it must be he concludes that there is a mix for the Davin twice a day look at the second underline in the last paragraph the second underlined part since the that that compares it to is happens in the morning and happens in the evening referring to the and the so too the obligation to D biblically and therefore the obligation is to DAV is twice a day once in the morning and once in the afternoon and that sayso is the opinion of so what we've seen today is what we've seen right now is that according to this opinion we've seen one opinion that says you only have to D in once a day biblically the second opinion says no you need to David twice a day mid even according to the Torah and that's that's the conclusion of R according to raaj believe it or not there is even though there are even those who suggest that really we have to D in three times a day biblically even mid now where does that come from so first it comes from a couple of interesting in tan that seem to reference daving three times a day if you look at source number nine in say for the says in says morning or evening morning and afternoon I Converse and I I reach out to you and you and he listens to my voice says Rashi what is this a reference to sorry do I have the numbers wrong or are we good oh okay sorry okay the bottom of the page says Rashi what is this a reference to it's a reference to three times a day so already within seems to reference the idea of daving three times a day where else in kanak do we see this idea of daving three times a day we actually see it in sa for Danielle in the story of sa for Danielle the sto that that the Nai tells us that Daniel himself how often would he DAV he DAV three times a day it's written in Aramaic so bear with me we'll read the words inside I think it's always good to see the source but we'll this is now number 10 Source number 10 when he when realized that some kind of decree was being written we're not going to get into the details of it Al he went up to his house and he faced his body towards y this is also one of the earliest sources for the idea that when you D you should D in towards and three times a day he would go down on his knees and he would dve in to Hashem and thank him and request for all the things that he wanted so already one second just I'll take your question in a second we see and Rashi says what is it mean three times a day look at the rashan source number 10 so we have already two references in tanak for this idea that we're doing three times a day yes the first wasn't and the second is Danielle were no more that were from the Tor that were given so you would have to say that these Danielle and learned this from correct very good correct you are 100% correct and in fact this isn't these are these aren't clear sources because you could look at these Pim and say this is what they did this is what they did they dve in three times a day but that doesn't mean that that's binding for us M okay so what these are what you could also call is what you would call an as once according to those who are going to argue and say no the three times a day is not re it's not biblical it's Rabbi in nature what that means is the rabbis interpreted three times maybe maybe they got it maybe where they get three times from maybe they used the PK and T and the PK and Danielle to show well what would be a logical amount of time see what Danielle did see what did so you're 100% correct the Source here is not foolproof and that's why many many many disagree but what's interesting is you look at source number 11 where the gumar does seem to suggest that we're learning it from these Source number 11 is says the you might have thought that a person should D in all day all the time it already tell we already see from Danielle we have a model from Danielle that you should do it three times a day L as they say here in Israel right you don't have to now again anyone who's going through a specific part and wants to dve in more you're welcome to but that's not our obligation Our obligation is three times a day continues the gar again I skipped parts of the gar that weren't relevant you might have thought okay so I have to do three but let me say them all all at once like right you know I it's all about just saying the three let me get up in the morning say all at once right have you ever had that before we're like you you finish Shak and the guys want to start M right away right okay so you let's just we say check off the box with we do for practical reasons and it's a very good point and we'll get to that when we talk about it three times a day because that's not what was initially intended but then you also have to deal with with practical realities but yes correct correct says thear you might you might have thought you should do it all at once DAV the three D the three the three doings Al together it says by which tells us that these three doings should be three times a day so you could understand this to be telling you that these are the actual source for three times which would mean that this is biblical in nature but we could also look at this and say no all the gamar is telling me is once we've already know that we have to do it three times a day it's what's called an we're connecting it to a PK sometimes the rabbis will institute certain things and they will try to they'll find a PK in tanak to connect it to to show the reference to it even if it's not actually mid in nature okay so what we've seen is that is if you look at those You could argue that it is that it is that it is Mida the other support for suggesting that three times a day is Mida is actually the Rashi we saw earlier we saw earlier when we when we were discussing the opinion that says two times a day so Rashi we quoted a Rashi then Rashi quoted the PK that says why based on who Who David some point out that's true according we understood that to mean okay so Rashi says if you take that Rashi all the way if Rashi thinks that the was telling us that then Rashi would also agree that the byov there's also by yov what is say forgive me if I don't get the no I think it's and that refers to so if you're me Rashi was only talking about because the was only talking about but if you take that Rashi and you take his logic all the way what Rashi was really saying was all of those Pim are references to a Biblical commandment Mida in which case since there is a for by yov that would mean that maybe you have to DOA three times a day so there are those who want to suggest that maybe there isn't biblical obligation three times a day what would be the the main basis for that it would be theim that we just quoted and the other basis would be thear in thear in I brought it for you here in Source number 12 we're not going to go through it again because I want to give you some time to have a have bit of a break before before the next class but what the mentions is the aot were each a different and it quotes a PK for each of them you could interpret that to mean that therefore they're all it's mid say three times a day or or you could interpret that to just mean the obligation to d three times a day is rabic but we're connecting it to to the aot okay so again we did like I said I I apologize for those of you who weren't able to stay with us today was a bit of a of a technical Shor but really in my mind the goal is to get us from a place of where do we get daving is biblical to understanding what we're doing today what we saw was we saw that last week we discussed a whether or not there is a mitvah there's a Biblical obligation to to DAV today we discussed if there is which most people assume there is not not like the ran most assume like the r there is a Biblical obligation to dve into aadh on a daily basis how many times a day is that obligation exist biblically we saw that according to the RAM and by the way this is what most people agree most poim agree that Mida it's like the ROM that you have to dve in one time a day like the rambam suggests we saw different explanations for the r would have gotten that from it could be logic could be based on the connection to how often a person eats it could be based on the connection to how often a person is meant to Davin we saw that those proofs are not full proof because if it's based on how you eat we eat more than one time a day right and we saw of who suggest that the opinion of go that the daving is not one time a day but really biblically you need to DAV two times a day Shak and that's how he understands raon based on the fact that he connects it to corote since there were two corbane that were done on a daily basis so to the daving is twice a day and then we also saw potential indications although it's not a strong argument that maybe the Commandment to DAV three times a day is actually biblical in nature and as I mentioned the main opinion the mainstream approach is is that that the Commandment to Davida a person only needs to D in one time a day that's Mida what we're going to see next week is where we got to three times if we assume like the RAB which is what most people assume that the RAB that it it's the the the obligation to DAV in mid Ora is only one time a day we're going to see how we got to three times a day which is some of what we've done already but to review that again and also to see from a hashkafic perspective the significance of of doing it morning afternoon and evening yes one question before we absolutely [Music] correct is that significant doing so the question he's asking and again I don't want to spend too much time on this because but it's an interesting question I think the question he's asking is is is is there a lot of discussion about how doing should be done and he compared it to trains and bullet trains so you have the doing then you have the bullet do bullet train doing which goes fast so I I I I think the easiest way to explain that is is there a value to that doing I do believe there is do I believe that that is the most ideal form of doing I think we all would agree that that's not necessarily the most ideal form of doing but again ding is a personal thing it's this is the challenge of daving it's personal it's sh but it also has a very public communal aspect to it and finding that right balance between the needs of the community or balancing different people's individual needs is a challenge because there are some people who would say no I can't by I'm just throwing this out there there are some people I many people people who say I need to do in fast because I can't concentrate more than that and I respect that for me personally it takes more time I need to think more in order to be able to but the idea of what's better or what's worse that's why on some level obviously you know just I don't know I you know when we talk about what Corona Corona was obviously a tragedy and a challenge for many different people but there were some people who actually said that they felt that they're that they're doing where they were forced to do in by themselves and not with a minion sometimes was more meaningful does that mean we should always Dive In by ourselves and not with a minion no we certainly for the men there's an obligation there's a value we're going to get to why that is why why why doing bore is more powerful but you have to find that balance iscide definitely says a person should be should have should have kav that is that is aspect of daving what what is kavana and how a person can best have kavana I think is is is individual in nature but at the same time you have to have it by the way again I I'll throw that out there just just you know when we talk about how long d should be it's very very tricky there are some there are some that go very fast some that go slow to me the most important thing in a minion is you need to have a something uniform so if someone walks into daving they know this is the minion that davins quickly and this is the minion D so then you can decide what's what's meaningful I think the challenge the challenge becomes when you have some that depending on who gets up there to DAV you never know what you're G to get that I think can be a challenge and that's why I personally prefer if some if there's a me that goes fast because people have to get to work and people have to get here I respect that and I don't think that's our place to neily because there are some people a quicker doing maybe might might be more meaningful for them because they can't concentrate but I think the challenge becomes not knowing what you're going to get when you get up there in the in the morning you get up to ding you're like okay what's what's gonna be today what do I need to do do I need to start by skipping do I have time so that so I think it's a very very good question but I think as certainly as a RV and as a leader and I think all of us need to remember that when we're dealing with communal aspects there are different as they say different struges for different folks and that and that's that's very important because on the one hand there is you have to have kav what con kavana and the best way to have kavana I think we would all agree the more we prepare the more we learn about the more we effort we put into it then the our doing will be more meaningful that doesn't necessarily have to translate into a longer doing I think that'll depend there is a concept of what's called of yeah there called that you're not supposed to cause a to but again that depends on the on the Tabor different seabs will have different definitions and that's why you need to as a community come to certain to certain okay okay