Who Should Have Religious DEBATES? Q&A with Rabbi Yaron Reuven

you guys have any questions let you have yeah who are you saying it to it depends what the purpose of what you're saying is if it's for the purpose of to for for the purpose of helping the issue meaning you're telling another person he doesn't keep Shabbat we should really get him to come to the sh on Tuesday he does keep Shabbat we should give him a CD after Shabbat he doesn't keep Shabbat you know really you're not allowed to eat at his house because if he doesn't keep Shabbat then you can't trust his Kut if you're doing it for the purpose of helping him or somebody else then that's that's that's one thing but if he's saying he doesn't keep Shabbat you shouldn't talk to him anymore that's not helping anyone that's not a good thing to say so it has to be for the purpose of helping it also has to be for purpose of helping the purpose that's the person that's listening has to be part of that help not just telling anybody for no reason now when we state that the vast majority of do not keep keep Shabbat it's not for the purpose of insulting shalom shalom or anyone in am the reason why we say the truth which is that most of am does not keep Shabbat and many of the other MIT is to wake you up to wake you up to make you realize that not only do you do we need your help to wake them up but you're actually part of the problem the ones that keep Shabbat a part of the problem in fact I think the religious people are a bigger part of the problem than than the non-religious people because the non-religious people for the most part don't know the significance of not keeping Shabbat because I see it in lectures when I travel and I go to lectures or new people come to the shim and we mentioned something about Shabbat it's always the same thing I never knew I never heard this before no one ever told me I can't believe it I would have kept it if somebody would have told me why didn't anybody tell me I've been going to sh for 20 years no one ever told me d da D it's always I never heard I never knew I never heard I never knew and I know this because I was the same thing so the nonreligious for the most part they're not not religious because they hate God they're not religious because they simply don't understand the significance of going against him they don't even know for the most part that it is even going against them which means that the problem the bigger problem lies with the religious people the ones who do know because if you know what it means to violate Shabbat and you're not sharing that information with the person that's not keeping Shabbat you're part of the crime if anything you're probably worse you know there's a train coming to hit him and you're not even telling the guy to move Shalom says that that's the biggest that exist much more than the Moroccans versus the uh yemenites or the uh or the uh yemenites versus the ashkanazi and ashkanazi versus the this one all that stuff is all nonsense in comparison the biggest according to I sheets is that we see our brothers and sisters sinning and we don't say anything the religious people however many of them we have in the world they see many of am sinning and for the most part do nothing about it or sometimes they do but they do something wrong like instead of telling people listen come to my come to my house I'll show you what Shabbat is or come to the lecture let me let's talk about something interesting and then get the guy to hear some and hopefully something about Shabbat what do they do they throw rocks at them sometimes or they curse at them or they go have a you know different uh you know uh campaigns against them or different marches and and protests against against them or they just completely ignore them which is the most part what they happens in America the first few things happens in Israel meaning we're doing everything wrong what we're supposed to do is get them to know the truth how bring them to the shim set up give the information to them and so on and so forth but for the most part the people who know the significance of Shabbat don't share it and that's the that's the case against all of us what if you try to share they end up getting mad they don't want to keep all okay we're not talking about outcome outcom that I just said is not your business the outcome of your business is not your business you're only responsible to go to work the outcome of your learning is not your business you're only responsible to learn the outcome of uh you know your marriage is not your business you're only responsible to get married and even that is not your business because hasm is going to decide if you're going to get married or not the point is always supposed to do is try we're supposed to try and according to the rambam how much do you try you try to tell them the truth until the point of where they're going to beat you up now obviously most people are not willing to go that far and most people don't even need to go that far you only simply need to do is share the information with them sometimes it's better to share the information with them indirectly meaning that instead of you telling them they shouldn't drive on Shabbat or they shouldn't uh work work on Shabbat give him a CD or a link or a video or a book that talks about what you want to tell them because they're much more likely to listen to a third party than to listen to you it's usually less intimidating because if you tell them oh don't drive on Shabbat immediately a secular person takes it as why you attacking me why are you attacking me you're not attacking them you're trying to help them but he takes the tells him no no he's attacking you he's attacking you curse him out beat him up punch him in his face what is he oh no he's not around but the point is is that the convinced him that something else but if you go and you did God bless on my wife what she did today what she did she knows a few people don't don't keep Shabbat she went she puts a CD in their mailbox and that's it finished no hello no goodbye no he you should do this you should do that she took a CD she put it in the mailbox by she leaves the rest forem you mean a$ investment something happens $1 $1 you put it in a mailbox bye let this is this is what she can do and many people did chat from exactly that many people thousands of people have done Chua something simple I have a couple of guys a group of guys in California they go literally they take my CDs they go door to door mailbox to mailbox door to door they put his slip it under the doors they put it in some mailboxes the other day one of the guys God bless him he was putting it into a mailbox and uh he decided uh he realized that he put two two CDs in there so he took one out so the guy that's his mailbox saw this and he thought that he's stealing his mail so yo hey hey hey what are you doing what are you doing what are you stealing give me what you just stole I'm going to call the cops so he got scared no no don't call the cops I'm just putting a CD goes what CD he goes I'm putting RAB yam Rubin CD in your in your mailbox goes what is this he tells him listen your Torah your nation changed my life and RAB youron ruen is one of the reasons because of him I'm converting to Judaism because of him doing chuva because of this because of this and the guy was so impressed with this young guy and his story he's like you know what I'm going to listen to this CD if you would have went them the guy Hey sir yeah you're violating Shabbat you're driving a Shabbat you not gonna punch him in the face so thing is though is that you have to be smart hasem give you a brain hasem give you an imagination you don't have to go so far indirectly especially if you know the people a lot of people try to debate people online or face to face it's a complete waste of time first of all online debates is not only a waste of time but nine out of 10 times because the people that debate online are not looking for the truth they're just looking for attention debating online I'm telling you both in the business world and in the Torah world even more in the Torah world it's a complete waste of time I remember when I used to write articles Financial articles so this is not only Torah World Financial articles I write a lot of articles papers and so on and we publish it and these you know keyboard Warriors would uh write all types of wonderful messages to me oh you you know some people would like it and there's always a few people that uh hate you and your mother and your father and everything that that has to do with you because you wrote one word they didn't agree with you wrote 60,000 words one word they didn't agree with all of a sudden you're halfway it's even more so in Torah you have a three-hour lecture times that by a thousand you have 3,000 hours of of of you said one word incorrectly once ah this guy's an idiot you can listen to him who is it show me show me who's your Rabbi what book did you write who give you the right all the what difference does it make is what I'm saying right or wrong is it right or wrong is it what I said or is it what the God said if what God said it doesn't make a difference that it came from me or it came from a donkey and that's that's the thing yet convinces people all types of things so you have to understand best way don't debate publicly don't write on message boards don't write on comments don't debate at all it's a complete waste of your Val valuable time and it's only a mitvah from the Satan Satan wants you to occupy yourself with debating people that is going to lead you to Nowhere no one is is ever going to do Chua from it and you're going to do that instead of learning to instead of learning to you're going to debate people online oh you're a fool though yeah because you don't realize that happen oh no but you're a bigger fool because happen no but happen and you're a full there three days they're debating online and what happens at the end Facebook deletes it it's the one thing they deleted the whole year everything else they kept so it's just a waste of time you want to help people you really want to to serve hem and get his people to do chuva forget your ego throw take that ego throw it in the garbage put some uh put some Clorox on it so it doesn't come out then start delivering the message indirectly take CDs take video clips take the message indirectly publicize that give people that watch the world around you change watch the world around you change I'm telling you it's unbelievable how that simple decision like that is so difficult for people to make myself in included I used to debate people all the time Financial world and Torah world and so on and I realize it's a waste of time in both places you deliver the message indirectly it's the best thing sometimes the message I send people are other rabbis sometimes I'll send them other rabbis speech lecture and so on it's not always mine meaning it doesn't make a difference where the message came from I'm just trying to give them the message the right mage message if it came from me good if it doesn't doesn't make a difference there's no ego here the point is the target target you're trying to help the target that's the mission if there's anything else to your mission you're going to fail anyway you already failed before you started I just told you you're wasting your time and you haven't listened to a single word I said for 25 minutes you're not you're not going to win the debate you're not going to win the debate people that debate are not looking for an answer they're looking to win I'm a professional debator for 20 years I'm telling you what a debator looks for I did this for a living we're not looking for a truth we're looking to win as a debater as T you're looking for the truth people that debate T not looking for the truth of T they're looking to debate they're looking to win meaning that even if a person that debates even if he knows that his side is a complete lie he doesn't care as long as it wins so your debate is a complete fruitless effort you wrote a six-page article to debate his three-page article you've wasted worth worthwhile time writing this article if your purpose was to debate him it's a complete waste of time no one's going to read it no one's going to care including him all he's going to do he's going to read the first three sentences the middle two sentences and the last three sentences summarize what you actually said in between those six pages and then tell you you're an idiot for writing it and then tell you why he thinks you're an idiot yeah but let's say person says to get that in Christianity wants to know inanity how would you get that back without Christian you're not you're not contradicting anything that I said I said you can contradict all of it but not directly not your mouth somebody else's mouth you want to do it your mouth be my guest you continue wasting your time doing it but I'm simply telling you that for the most part people will not listen to you directly they will listen especially if they know you they'll listen to somebody else they will take it from you they'll take the CD from you the video from you the book from you but that somebody else wrote why because already if it comes from you then it's an ego battle but if it's just you just gave it to them instead of you said it to them to to to to that person's psych state of mind he already takes it as oh I would have picked up this book anyway it already becomes an idea that they own so I'm not I'm not rejecting you debating people I'm just telling you how to debate them debate them with somebody else's mouth he had a debate or two debates no there's two there's two different things first of all he's a professional you're not a professional if you're a professional that already puts you in a different level now there's a professional that will build a plane and there's a guy that likes planes which one do you want to build the next plane that you go on a flight to New York there's a professional that watches Discovery Channel and also is a professional in actually doing surgeries and and is the guy that just watches the discovery Channel but doesn't do surgeries which one do you want to do the next surgery that somebody that you care about has the professional that watches and also does it so that's the point as a professional professionals is A League of Their Own so that's one second thing is is that that's exactly the mouth you're going to use you take the professional and what he said and you give it to the person that you want because that's that's pretty much what what I'm trying to tell I'm telling you the same exact thing just give them that that professional don't give them your version of what the professional saidan the purpose was not necessarily to leave Christianity the purpose was not for him the purpose was for that's the reason why he doesn't have another debate about it the re people keep asking why didn't he debate this other uh Brown Michael Brown or other Christians that uh you know because the real it is that no one can actually win the initial debate the initial debate brought up questions that are part of the 800 questions that the ran uh came up with during his famous debate that beat the Christians and nearly got him killed and RAB MRA he already knew that there's no answer for them he already knew that he was going to win the debate before he actually started the debate because he wasn't he didn't come up with the questions himself he used the sages meaning he didn't even have his own thing it wasn't his own material it was the Sages was the ramban and other that have destroyed Christianity many many times over over the years so in essence he came already knowing he won he already came with 18,000 atomic bombs against the guy that has a a plastic gun you understand so it wasn't really a debate the whole purpose of it was to show and anyone that's looking for the truth there's nothing to see here this Christianity thing there's nothing there for you and that debate has led to thousands and thousands of people converting to Judaism becoming sikim leaving Christianity and actually many Jews themselves doing CH well because of it and in my opinion it's the most important debate publicly recorded in the history of am publicly recorded meaning in video obviously the ramban is also extremely important but it wasn't recorded in video because 800 years ago they didn't have video but the point is is that that's the reason why he doesn't doesn't have another debate there's no further purpose he's not tring to win you see my point if he was a debater then he would just have more and more debates just for the purpose of debating to win to win here to win there you win an award you win the praise you win the Applause you win some money you win this you win this he's not trying to win anything except you're n doing cha so he already did it there's no other purpose to do another debate yeah that's what I was trying to say before okay but the thing is that most people think that they know what they're talking about and they don't a lot the the the standard version of yourself they I'm sorry the standard person typical person thinks of himself as much much greater than what he really is so first we have to understand is that in order for to debate any issue you not only have to be an expert on your own knowledge of whatever it is that you need to if it's let's say t or if it's business or so on but you also have to be an expert on the opposing sides knowledge because the way to win a debate is not from your knowledge from your own information but rather on his information meaning you can only win a debate based on something that the Christians and the Jews agree on not on something that they disagree on so the rules of debate are very different than a disagreement most people think the debates are disagreements they're not most people don't even understand the basic concept of what a debate is they just yell at each other back and forth and thinking that whoever is louder actually wins whoever wrote more words wins whoever used the biggest word one it's all nonsense it's not even intellectually stimulating it's just a bunch of idiots writing a bunch of words they don't understand so the reality is that most people don't even know what a debate means let alone to have them debate is a joke which means means that if you're debating in the name of God and you don't know how to debate you're much more likely to cause a than a Kem and this is why it's absurd that some people that call themselves rabbis debate with Christians and have debated with Christians publicly over the years without knowing anything about Christianity so you see a guy like Michael Brown that recruits Jews left and right unfortunately you see him winning debates against rabbis and he's using that as his belt what he doesn't tell you and what people don't know is that the people he debates are completely ignorant about how to debate about what to debate on and really for the most part about the other side of the equation so it's not just about you want to argue a debate is not an argument especially if it's public especially if there's other people there it's a very very very dangerous ground to walk on irrelevant the point is even if he doesn't the point is is that for the most part people that debate publicly should never write anything publicly let alone a debate because once it's public other people are going to use it against you this is one of the things that I implemented in my business when my when we were in the business world is that it took many years and it's no exaggeration you could ask some of my former employees it took many years years for me to approve for them to have their own email addresses simple email address that every single Joker in the street has three of them it took many years for me to approve my employees having their own email addresses and the reason why is because I knew that at some point one of them will say something stupid on their email and it has my name on it do you understand what that means there a consequenc here and I'm just a barely a human being so imagine imagine you're doing the same thing in the name of God you're saying something stupid or you're saying something that's wrong or you're saying something that's not even true it's a big thing to take you can't just tread lightly and like be like any one of these people that have a debate every other day just to show off that they know something in reality you listen to the debates it's a complete joke so it's not it's not a wise thing unless you're an expert expert in debating expert in your own knowledge in your own field and expert in the opposing field if you're not an expert in all three you have no right to debate not in writing not in uh debating in in Lang in uh speaking not any way and aside from that you also have if you're doing it verbally like speaking you have to be an expert speaker no less than Barack Obama if you're a bad speaker you shouldn't even say a word you shouldn't even say hello serious not I'm not not you shouldn't even say hello nothings you cannot hit the points unless you're a professional speaker you cannot hit the points I'm telling you this look right now you see me it looks easy because you're sitting over there I'm sitting here it looks easy to speak publicly it's not I had I tell you same it's a lot of people try this so I'll give you a test I'll give you a test this is how you test your public speaking ability okay public speaking ability give any idea a you want pick whatever idea you want Tora anything you want or debate publicly and off the cuff say Five Minute record yourself record yourself five minutes straight without pausing without a uh you know saying cutting out five minutes straight watch that it takes you to make a five minute video may take you five hours initially it's much easier than it looks it's much easier to look at Michael Jordan jumping in the air from the line and look like he's flying it's much easier to look oh yeah I can do that it's not easy it's all it's all god-given Talent it has nothing to do with me but I'm trying to tell you is that a lot of people don't know where the the water that they're in going into is hot they jump into it head first they don't realize it's hot you can't just go in there and just become a public speaker overnight I've been speaking for years all I Chang is I Chang the subject you understand so that's the thing it's like if if you're going to debate somebody publicly then you have to understand is that you also have to have a the ability to speak and convey your message what's in here doesn't always sound the same coming out of here nine out of 10 times it sounds much better in here and when it comes out of here it sounds like sewer and you wish that you would have never said it you regret the day you were born sometimes trust me you regret it came out oh it was like vomit came out out of your mouth like oh so it's not so simple to just go out there and and it looks easy just ask anybody that's an actor you know if you know any actors how many takes how many takes they have to just do one of their little spiels they you have in the movies every little thing is 15 20 30 tries to say a 30- second line 30 second line takes some 5 hours 10 hours it's not so simple so even more so in a debate there's no books and even if there is books you can't just say oh hold on a second wait what SEC okay let me check yeah it's uh let me check my phone okay no no it's verse uh hold on hold on a second guy no no if you don't know the answer off the top of your head you lost the debate so it's it's not so simple you know you know and people just don't know this they just go into it they go into the into into a um volcano thinking it's just a regular Mountain oh let me check out this cave see what's in it it's lava you say so it's just not it's people are wasting their time and this is exactly what the yet wants people to do he wants them to waste their Torah their valuable valuable Torah time that's saving n including their own saving the people that are falling off of mountains spiritually and physically saving the plane crashes saving the cancer patients saving the diabetes saving their own problems saving their kids saving the drug addicts saving the world with 5 10 20 minutes or 20 hours of T that they're going to learn instead what do they do they debate somebody and get nothing out of it and even make the thing look worse ultimately it's just it's not a it's not a good way to spend your time because the risk is too great this is also the reason why even I that I know how to debate and I'm telling you how to debate and all that stuff I generally still refuse to debate people have asked me to debate many times serves no purpose somebody that's actually a rabbi wants to debate me he's a rabbi there's one that's a missionary he calls himself a rabbi he wants to debate me I have no interest in debating him I just gave my case without a debate there's no there's nothing else that's acceptable anyway there's actually a rabbi that asked me to debate it's no point yes debate his theology versus Torah versus what I say it is in essence he's trying to prove that there's a different way of doing things the point I'm trying to tell you is that it serves no purpose he's just trying to build his own uh he's trying to get famous off of my my back there's a few of them there's not just one guy few people are trying to debate me publicly there's no point I'm not trying to be famous nor am I trying to make anybody else famous I'm just trying to deliver the word of Hashem to you you do what you want with it I'm going to tell you what God Said you do what you want with it that's the point that's why I said to my first student Nissan several years ago I told him listen I don't know what you keep I don't know what you don't keep I'm just going to tell you what God Said you do whatever you want within 20 minutes he realized that he he's AABB and he has to start keeping Shabbat today keep Shabbat and many other had a kid got married and so on but the point is is that this is not I'm not looking for money I'm not looking for fame I'm not looking for Fortune I'm just looking for the truth and I'm looking to deliver it to you most people that debate publicly are looking for the exact opposite of all of that if it's not money it's Fame if it's not fame it's Fortune if it's not fortune or money it's usually just cavod making uh for themselves from their peers and from other people just to feed their own ego and their own nonsense you want to do that good luck there's plenty of those people plenty of them so I think this covers that issue of debating if there's any other questions we could go over them otherwise we could call tonight anything else pertinent can 100% it's a is trying to get exercise was exercise in other ways you can exercise ACC to can you could exercise according to the Tor and according to the r you should exercise but also depends who and what you are and how you're doing it and how much time you're spending on it you know game of basketball is not usually five minutes and again different people different things you can't judge M the same way you judge yourself you're not M and he is not you can't judge like you you're not and he's not you different people different things but for the most part you'll see that most of the big not only uh did not spend their time in the outside world but many of them suffered major major physical uh uh Pains of all kinds major physical pains and it has nothing to do with exercise it has to do with K but that's aure for another day next question I know you have 87 questions as soon as the camera stands off so I'll pretend like the camera's off no it's getting late so I just want to go over the questions and finish yeah it's not only it's against the Tor to remind a person that they did chba it's also it's also against the toor to remind a convert that they converted you're not allowed to remind a b cha that he did cha you're not allowed to remind it's even more so it's worse there's no reason for you to tell them another person unless it affects them directly unless it affects them directly now if it affects them meaning if you're using it for to for for the per there actual useful purpose out of it so for example if the uh person is asking listen I want a but I'm looking for somebody that is a has the fire of a balua but this guy looks like he's been religious from before birth from his previous gig already so no actually did chat two years ago he just looks really religious so that's has a purpose but if a guy says listen I'm looking to start a new minan we need a new guy oh yeah I have this guy but he's a is that okay that's not only that's against the T and many many other aspects so again the Torah teaches us that there's a lot of things that are allowed a lot of things that are allowed and there are some things that are not allowed what the Torah does it tells you when it's allowed and when it's not allowed because the same thing can be allowed for you and not allowed for him same could be allowed for you at one time and not allowed at another time that's the point of the T and really the most critical thing that a person needs to learn if let's say for example you learned from the is that you really have to think like 80 times before a single word leaves your mouth any word anything anything hello saying hello saying Shalom you should think about it several times before you do it why because if you do it on Shabbat some people say some of the Pim say you've actually uh you violated Shabbat to a certain extent why you're not supposed to talk about things that are nonsensical on Shabbat they only allowed you to say shabbat shalom because technically a Tor it's it's the name of God Shabbat is another name for God but they had a big debate of whether you should even say shabbat shalom on Shabbat why you shouldn't talk about mundane things on Shabbat meaning that the details of the law the intricate parts of the law show you that even to speak simp Le conversation between you and your wife you and your husband is a big deal so to talk about other people unless it's 100% to help somebody to help them specifically 99.999999% of the time and I'm leaving the 0 one% for just exceptions to the case uh it's forbidden to talk about other people's money always forbidden always forbidden like you say oh yeah Steve yeah he's so rich it's 100% even though it's true is true but saying Steve is Rich Dave is Rich it's why somebody's listening and maybe Steve doesn't want people to know he's Rich maybe somebody maybe it's his enemy maybe it's his enemy listening and Steve didn't want his enemy to know he's Rich maybe he's gonna sue him now maybe he's gonna go send somebody to Rob him maybe he's G to go ask him for money you don't know it's not your business the less you speak about other people the more likely you ought to go to ganen for what purpose okay that has a purpose that has a purpose if it's just to say ah wasn't religious his whole life okay and no I just want you to know and you just leave it like that that's is it it has to have a purpose there has to be a purpose this is not a purposeless world everything must have a purpose a good one too it must have a good purpose in order for hasem to allow it it doesn't have a good purpose we have a problem what purpose do you have how are you how is you telling other people that you have flaws going to help you are you telling it to a rabbi that could potentially give you advice or you telling it to other people so they can feel bad for you or you're telling it to other people so you could feel bad for yourself if you're doing it to feel bad for yourself then it's against yourself not allowed if it's to give it to a rabbi that maybe can give you uh you know help then it's for toilet it's to help you so you can say about yourself and it's a sin against yourself just like committing suicide is murdering of yourself to sin those people that commit suicide will have to pay for and gain home no he gets judged as a murderer not his entire but he gets judged as a murderer and he has to do quite a bit of suffering if he thinks that his suffering will end by him committing suicide then he doesn't realize that his suffering just began by him committing suicide yeah you lose this world you lose the ability to do chuva in this world you have to you have to do chuva in a different world much much more painful World hot world and so on but nonetheless it's not good it's not good at all next but said that guys I think it's enough for tonight uh a uh I think we covered a lot of a lot of different topics even though it's one single sentence one I mean it's I really um I'm amazed every time the they I try to uh come up with a lot of different things to say and honestly I have I don't know maybe half the material I didn't cover I didn't cover half the material we have like there's books here open the ones that are closed I finished there's still three books here open because I didn't finish this is the toah you understand what you have what hasm gave youm gave you gave you Tora silver platter and all we got to do is remember him all we got to do is do CH we'll do CH we'll continue doing CH tomorrow we continue do CH every day amen amen [Music] [Applause] [Music] oh a [Music]