Rabbi Reuven Lauffer - Basic Judaism: Grace After Meals - Part 2

okay yes yes actually we should have done this yesterday but yesterday the last thing that we did was that you need to bench with what's called kavanagh right cavanaugh which is the idea of benching with uh intent with concentration but being aware of what it is that you're saying according to some authorities if you don't bench with kavanaugh then it's you haven't fulfilled your obligation right so again should you go should you repeat it i don't know the best thing is the the best thing obviously is to bench with carvana right to bench with intent with concentration when you come to say it and uh that's that's you know that's the best way to do it otherwise you're going to run into the problem of whether or not you need to repeat the whole thing all over again um it's it's better to recite be cut amazon out loud as well right so you know rather most people of course just mumble it if they if they actually say it at all so they just mumble it along um but the evidence is what you're supposed to you should say it out loud and uh saying it out loud hopefully is going to remind you also not to skip things out so when you get to you know on shabbat you add in would say so sometimes it's easy to forget that if you're used to just benching off by heart right so you may not you may not even realize that you've skipped it out um i used to have a friend who the only time that he washed his hands to eat bread was on shabbat so on the rare occasion except by him it was the other way around on the rare occasions when he washed his hands during the week he would end up benching and saying would say which is the extra paragraph you add in fish shabbat because that was just the way that he was used to doing it bless you and that means that really you should try to bench out of a sitter like i mentioned yesterday you should try to bench it out loud that way if it's hashem you'll be aware of what it is you're saying it's all pretty radical you know quite a quite a radical idea of being aware of what it is that you're saying and uh you know i i apologize if i've offended anybody by suggesting that that's what you're supposed to do it was more so like you can read something not understand but it's more so understand it's understanding the words even that you're reading yeah i mean preferably yeah you're supposed to be reading and understanding what you're saying um if you if you don't understand hebrew at all then you should probably mention english no but even in english just means oh i mean first of all yeah depending on how deep you go depends on how much you're aware of what it is that you're saying but at least at least to have a working knowledge of what you're saying and why you're saying it for sure as we spoke about yesterday you won't hear but but uh yesterday we spoke about the idea that benching has got very little to do with what you ate only the first paragraph deals with what you ate and everything else deals with other dimensions so at least you should know what you're saying for sure yeah was charles i don't have mine with me but in the art scroll it's like for the fourth blessing um on it starts at page 182 and then it seems to go to and see so there's a fourth blessing and then it has like i don't know if these are separate sections because in the nixie venture there's like 18 sections i don't know if i'm supposed to be doing all 18 sections i know i know you skipped some of them somewhere like for hanukkah somewhere for shabbos yeah so you know what let's go through here right let's go through it we're using the citroen using the sitter over here so benching benching begins you know let's start from page 184. if you if you've got what if you've got ashkenaz have you got no saxophone over there what color is it yeah rare okay besides let's let's go from 184 and let's just take a look and see what we've got so first of all we've got the first broker right which is baruch hashem and that's the broker which deals with what you've eaten and that's giving thanks to god right after that on page 186 then we've got neu de la hoya now in the art scope the answer is is very easy to follow because anything in a gray box is something which is only added in on specific occasions right so after you've said if it is hanukkah or if it is purim then you add in what's in the box underneath right which is the alanis and that talks about you know the bit to do with hanukkah it talks about what happened on chanukah the uh the miracle of hanukkah and the bit that on the other side talks about the miracle of purim right that's only said on those days otherwise when you get to the end of the paragraph of no de la ho at the top you then flip over the page to 188 and you recite the ala call which is the next paragraph and which is the next paragraph and then like it says you know you just follow follow the uh the little notes over here and if it's shabbos then you add in would say but if it's not shabbos you skip you skip out and say you don't say it you turn over the page to page 119. now at the top of 190 is another gray box over here that's the box which is added in whenever there is if it's yomtov or rosh so we add in the prayer of ya'llaviyavo and that's added in over here now if it happens to be shabbat and rosh which does happen or shabbat and yantev you would add in the gray box at the bottom of page 188 and you would add in the gray box at the top of 190 before you move on and if you if you really if you really want a you know like a a whole whammy over here the longest benching in the year which doesn't happen very often is when chanukah when rosh hades and shabbat and hanako all coincide with each other and then you've got to add in the box on page 186 and you have to add in the boxing page 188 and you've got to add in the box on page 190 yeah i don't have to bread her after everything only off the bread it's pretty long yeah what's up with that what's up with that so it's interesting i tell you no it's a good question even though it may not have been worded in a very eloquent fashion but nevertheless it's a it's a no it's a good question what what's what's what's the deal with with uh you know let's let's take off a moment of working out we've got three different kinds of after blessings right there's an after blessing which is boring shot which is about three lines long and very quick we've got something called a la mercier or if you've drunk wine a la yang whatever it is allah gethin um and that's longer but not terribly long and then you've got because amazon which is i don't want to say terribly long because what could be terrible about praying but it is rather long rather long right not terribly wrong well that's the way to look at it i guess right you know my parents used to have a sign up in their downstairs bathroom and it said there i sat alone a melancholy when all of a sudden out of the heavens became a voice and it said cheer up things could be worse so i cheered up and sure enough things got worse so you know you're right it could it could be longer we got to look at the bright side of things right but the uh the you know over here is like this is interesting normally when you recite bahrain the first shot that's normally the after blessing which is recited over food which doesn't have a lot of it doesn't have a lot of um doesn't have a lot of preparation invested inside of it right so for example you eat an apple you didn't do very much to get this apple you just picked it off the tree and you make your bori period eight and then at the end you say barina fashot if you say if you if you eat something which has got flour in it so for example cookies or pasta or cake or whatever it is then you have to say an alamichu which is a little bit longer because the amount of effort that went into producing this thing is greater than the amount of effort that normally goes into producing something which has a marina fashion the benching beer cat amazon has got a it's got a dual dimension to it first of all the amount of time that goes into preparing the meal that's got bread is normally longer than preparing a meal that doesn't have bread but aside from that the gemara says that because bread is a staple bread satiates you in a way that other foods don't normally satiate you then that requires a broken it requires an after broker which is going to reflect the special dimension of what bread is and that's why it's longer it's pretty long though it is pretty long yesterday we spoke about yes we spoke about this idea of of what it is what it is that we're doing when we eat bread and when we're benching it's not just that we're coming to thank god for what we've eaten that's just the first paragraph but rather it's defining who we are and it's defining what our purpose is here in this world which means in effect when i come to eat by eating i'm suppo it's supposed to turn me into a better jew than i was before i ate which means that now i've given myself energy i'm able to serve god in a better way than i did before and hopefully that's going to draw me you know it's going to draw me closer and help build that relationship and that requires again it requires an understanding of why we're here we're not here just to eat in order to exist and exist in order to eat that there's more to our lives than just that dimension and that's got to be taken into account and that's why there are many many people you know sit down and make all kinds of calculations about whether they want to eat bread right because eating bread means afterwards that you've got to you've got to now bench and benching takes time and so very often people do their best to get out of eating bread in order not to have to bench carbs are the enemy i don't know it depends it depends you know where depends which battle you're fighting if you're batting the bat if you're fighting the battle of the bulge then i guess uh carbs cubs or the enemy i always find it very interesting because you'll have like a pastry which is kind of like bread but they don't consider it bread yeah but a sandwich is considered brick yeah which means that a difference is being made between pastry that's going to be used for cakes and pastry dough not pastry dough that's going to be used for cake and dough that's going to be used for bread and that means that dough that's being used for for a dough that's being used for cake because it's mixed together with other ingredients and it becomes sweet is considered to be mizonate whereas dough that's turned into bread is dough which is now considered to be hamoiti right and it's it's kind of important to know the difference between the two because you know when i was growing up there was a bread called pumpernickel i imagine it probably still exists but it was a it had it had it had malta in england it had malt inside of it which is sweet and it was a whole big question about what broccoli is supposed to make over it because on the one hand it was definitely being sold as bread but on the other hand it was definitely we it was you know the pumpernickel that we bought from the kosher bakery not only was it sweet it had raisins inside of it as well um it was probably terribly unhealthy which is why we ate it i think um uh so what what do you do with something like that so so the the rabbis in london you know they pascal they they ruled that it's better to wash and to make hamoiti over a piece of bread and then to eat the pumpernickel to get around get around the problem altogether right because that way you know again we're running into what is this what is is it a cake or is it bread so if you're ever in that kind of a position it's probably better to make sure that you're going you know make sure that you're going to make emoji over something which is definitely bread and then eat whatever else it is that you want to eat just to get around the problem um okay so what have we got we've got on page 190 over here only with melbourne toast yeah sure yeah velvet melbourne toast is crunchy it's crunchy slices of bread that have been toasted and uh they're sold the truth is that in england they're sold as crackers right people don't you know but the truth what are you doing you're eating bread it's not that you know it looks like bread it tastes like bread um personally i'm not convinced it's worth the uh you know all the effort of washing and benching over it but that's just my personal opinion don't you don't have to you don't have to take that as gospel truth that's for sure right um on page 190 so if it's a special day you add in the gray box of jalebi avo uh just as an aside over here if we're already looking at this um if it's rosh hoidesh which is going to be in another week and a half but if it's rosh chodesh yeah that's right travis will work with this shabbos and then friday thursday night friday afterwards it's going to be rishodesh not this not this thursday night friday but the one afterwards if you forget to recite yala villavo at night inside of your benching you don't have to go back and said all over again but during the day you're supposed to make be very careful that you say it okay and then in the uh below the box you've got overnight now interesting over here overnight is one of the is one of the one of the only brokers which has an amen said at the end of it right so if you take a look at this now normally when you recite a broker you don't say amen to your own broker right which means that you make a broker over a piece of fruit you say but you don't say i mean if somebody else is there they say i mean to your brother over here though we do say our name the custom is to make it just a little a little pause before you say our main so we say usually over here in order to differentiate the first three bracha of birkat hamazon are what are called diorita they're coming from the torah it's our obligation to recite them the next broker that's recited afterwards is it's been given to us by the rabbis we'll look at it in a moment what does that mean practically we've so we have to know that we're moving from what's called a deorissa into a durabonan that's why we say the word amen that we should know we should be aware that we're moving into a different dimension over here right into a different it's like a different plane up until now it's tour obligation and now it's going to become a rabbinical obligation so does that mean that we're only really held to the torah obligation no the bad news is i got good news and bad news the good news is there are lots of rabbinical mitzvahs the bad news is you gotta keep them um the uh the uh the gemara says that we have to keep their big we have to we have to relate to the rabbinical mitzvas with great uh with great uh seriousness the gemara actually says to the point where we should treat them even more seriously than we treat torah commandments because we know that torah commandments are important we know that torah commandments are there given to us by god and we have to keep them and we shouldn't make the mistake of thinking that well you know what it's just a rabbinical commandment it's okay i can skip over that one so we have to be very careful as far as we're concerned today mitzvahs are mitzvahs right regardless hold on a second regardless of what flavor they have whether they're torah whether they're a biblical the only time there would be any kind of a differentiation is for example if a person has to transgress shabbat right it's it's a it's a you know it's an imperative he has to so it would be better for him to transgress rabbinical mitzvahs than torah mitzvahs if it's possible to be able to do that if not then of course you know you can you can transgress whatever needs to be transgressed in order to let's say for example somebody is in a state of danger and it's what's called picoagnefish his life is in danger and you have to save him in order to be able to save him you have to transgress shabbat there's no problem transgress whatever you can but again if it's possible if you've got enough time to work out what is a rabbinical mitzva and what is a torah mitzvah it would be better to transgress the rabbinical mixes than the torah ones but that's about the only time that it makes any practical difference whatsoever as far as we're concerned we gotta do them all so is turning on a light rabbinical or wrong wrong wrong example because turning on a light electricity is the source of an enormous disagreement amongst the halachic authorities about whether it is a deal right or whether it's a torah prohibition or whether it's a rabbinical prohibition come come what may uh should avoid turning on light can i ask you question talking about something hot solo yeah the moist yeah but coming back he says yeah you can come back yeah i tell you the the the suck which is acceptable had solar the other you know like the sort of the jewish medical what are they called um you know first aid paramedics thank you that was again it was one of those difficult words right well it's like you know these jewish paramedic organizations which many many orthodox communities have and they're there in order to serve the community because very often it takes a while for the ambulance to come so these people are you know they get there straight away um now rav moshe feinstein there's mano in his dare of much of financing was the greatest halachic authority in the generation and he ruled that the paramedics were allowed to first of all to transport somebody sick on shabbat to the hospital for sure you know you don't need to have moisture financing to tell you you could do that that for sure you can do the question was though what do you do about coming back because under normal circumstances there's no reason why somebody orthodox should have to come back from the hospital on shabbat so just wait in the hospital until shabbat goes out and then you can come back right you don't have to transgress shabbat again to come back however moshe feinstein ruled based on two things first of all the medics who are involved in transporting the sick person to the hospital may be needed again right so there's also a concept in that locker not just the pikuachen effort which is putting life in danger but also safe because which is even if there's a doubt but even if there's a possibility that somebody may become sick and they may need hatsola it's enough to allow them to be able to come back from the hospital in order to be in the area to be in the neighborhood aside from that he also mentioned the the uh the part the problem that if you weren't allowed to come back it's like a secondary issue but if you weren't allowed to come back so many people wouldn't bother volunteering because you know these people are working at solar very often they go to the hospitals it's not it's not something which happens only once in a little while but on shabbat very often they end up having to take people off in the ambulance and people are not going to volunteer to work on shabbat because they're going to be stuck in the hospital not able to come back or if it is it's going to be hours worth of walking back to the back to the neighborhood so if marshall feinstein used both of these things and this was actually a real a real precedent setting ruling and all of the uh all of the paramedic organizations here in israel as well all used the same basis for the ruling which means that if they have to transport people on shabbat to the hospital they'll bring them back again there's an intro just an interesting story where i live in hanov there's an organization that's got it's not but it's exactly the same where did ah where did it begin the the uh the late boston area many years ago he first came to hanov and he had a heart attack and it took 27 minutes for the ambulance to turn up so when he bought hashem he he became well and uh he recovered and when he got back to the to uh to hanov to the neighborhood he decided he was going to set up an organization called means a medic right so that's where akhovesh began for years ah used rashlamaz authority of the generation he lived he died about 20 years ago they used as a halachic authority for all of the questions to do with akhodesh shabbat related medical related hospital related ev everything whatever it was everything got taken to ashlam zalman after ashland zalman passed away they then went started going to rav nouvert rav yoshua noivert who died two years ago of yeshua neuvert was considered to be the perhaps the closest talmud of roshlam azam and oyobak he was an expert in the halakhas of shabbos he wrote a seminal work called shmirat shabbat kill which was translated into english about the shabbos and started going to him in order to ask all of their halachic questions it transpired towards the beginning had its own ambulance and they kitted it out in such a way that everything that the ambulance did on shabbat was only rabbinical transgressions and not thorough transgressions i don't know how it worked exactly you need to be a great a great expert in the in the laws of shabbat to be able to work out exactly how to do this but you know for example if you if you've got to open up doors or whatever it is that it doesn't switch on lights straight away there's some kind of a grammar that it's uh whatever whatever all kinds of things anyway when they started bringing their questions to rav neue that rav nova was a little bit taken aback he couldn't understand why rav zalman orbach had told them to set up the ambulance like that because he said it's pikach you're dealing with people in danger and you're allowed to do whatever needs to be done you don't have to do all of these sort of roundabout things in order to make sure that you're transgressing on your rabbinical mixes it transpires rav noivert said you saw the greatness of his sensitivity he said that it transpires that um understood that for the shim for the medics it bothered them even though they knew that they were allowed to do all of this and to transgress torah prohibitions on shabbat they knew they were allowed to do it but it bothered them so he sorted out a whole system which allowed them to only transgress rabbinical mixes instead of torah missus so that they should feel good not because there was some kind of a halachic need for what he put into place but in order for them to feel that you know that they weren't always in a state of transgressing shabbos it's a very very beautiful idea very beautiful story anyway uh achobesh in hanov has now got a different system uh they've now got a non-jew who drives the ambulance on shabbos and nevertheless the medics come and they deal with they deal with the sick person and they they transport them to the uh to the hospital and then afterwards the non-jewish driver drives into the hospital and drives them back again that's a lot less complicated but uh anyway being able to come back it's definitely okay i don't know it's an interesting question if right before the end of shabbat maybe half an hour before shabbat the the the medics have to take somebody off whether then they have a a whether then they have the ability to come back or whether they need to wait until shabbat has gone out it's an interesting question i think the fight was right he said come back because you may be yeah maybe because the question is how close how close to the end of shabbat or what at what point would that not be consider i don't know it's interesting question anyway in all events how did we get to that i'm not sure i can't remember but it was great it filled up a couple of minutes so he talked about a main at the end of uber oh because we're moving from from toronto to rabbinical and he's like us i don't have to follow this and you're like not exactly nice try anyway the next broker over here is a toyovo native that's a fourth block inside of the army inside of the i'm sorry inside of the cat amazon um and that's also that's also broken the long broccoli you start off with the broccoli and at the end you say and anyone that's listening to your brother should answer amen to the brother now after that if you flip over the page of 192 we've got a whole bunch of things that begin with the words that god is a compassionate one and we ask for all different kinds of things over here now what's interesting about this part over here is that some people on shabbat have the custom not to say it which means for some people on shabbat when they get to the end of page 190 they finish the anita it's done it's finished they don't say anything more and for some people they carry on and they say everything all together what is that what is the source of the disagreement over here because on shabbat you're not supposed to ask god for personal requests that's why for example the ami dao and shabbat is very different from the amidah during the week the yamada during the week is full of personal requests like we went when we went through we look to them right that we should have health and wealth and we should have wisdom and all those things that we ask god for on shabbat we don't ask for any of those things on shabbat we're not supposed to be we're not supposed to be focusing on our needs we're supposed to be focusing on the needs of god and that's why the midair of shabbat is very different from the amidah during the week and that's why followers of the vilna gone the great go on from vilna who lived you know just over 200 years ago in vilna he ruled that you shouldn't say harakan you shouldn't say from page 192 onwards on shabbat you shouldn't say any of these and you should stop at the end of aliya what's going to be wherever you are i don't know whatever they do is what they do you should just follow your custom even if the people that you've even if the hosts that you've gone to finish reciting the katamazon by alicastreno nevertheless if your custom is to say the whole thing which i think is most people's custom is to say it all then you should just say the whole thing there are some people who have accustomed to stop at aliyeh during the week as well now i don't know i don't know hold on a second i don't know what the source for that particular custom is they always say it's following the custom of the vilnigan of the grower but it says there's a book called maison rav which talks about all the customs that the vulnerable lived his life according to and over there it says quite clearly that the villanova gone stopped only on shabbat by aliya casreno and during the week he carried on because during the week there's no problem with set with asking god to give you things so i i don't know if anybody has a source for that i'd be happy to hear it yeah how can you do that like these are rabbinic this is a myth there's a lot yeah so here i tell you i think i think the the the reasoning over here is that once you get beyond this broker over here so that's the end of the bracket right on page 190 you've got to the end of the bracket everything else has now been added on by the rabbis at a later date without brachot right presumably because they felt that they they wanted a maker it was long enough i never you know what i didn't think about that guys it has to be longer spread i guess that's one possibility right the other possibility that i was going to mention which is a lot more boring actually is that they wanted they wanted it to be clear that this is something which has been added on and that it doesn't have it doesn't have the same din it doesn't have the same uh classification as the regular part of birkat amazon again you can only do this if you're following the if you're following the ruling of the villenegon i would say like this if you follow all the rulings of the vilnigan then for sure stop over here by ali but if you don't follow all the rulings of the vilnigan don't just choose this one because then it cuts the katamazon in half a train or something you know what if you have to count i i if if there is def without a doubt if there is some kind of very urgent thing that has to take place so get to alia castrano and and stop well the whole idea so what that's what what are you going to hurry for oh no he's right maybe you have to catch a train maybe maybe uh you know maybe you've got to you've got to get to you've got to get to class right no i'm going to buy a challenge you got you've got to you've got to get to promotion you've got to get to bed for your afternoon schluff you're in a hurry right you gotta got to be makai in the mitzvah sleeping on shabbos afternoon well you want to get up and go no no then you then you have to then you have to dump then you have to bench very slowly with tremendous tremendous i had a i had a daughter who used to do that when she was when she was younger she used to when it got to benching she would bench long long long on shabbat she would bench very very long each right and strangely enough it was very interesting when we finished clearing off the table then at that point she finished her benching it was very very interesting fascinating i'm sure there's no connection between the two i'm sure right but nevertheless it was a rather interesting little coincidence um so here on page 193 that's we're on yeah or 182 sorry the guest versus the host that's where you do it for your house yeah um and then i guess there's a section later on for your parents and for your here so let's have a look and pay on page 192 with all of these harakamans over here so when you get to the end of the month then in the gray box over there there is a special prayer that's recited that you can it's called beer cat you you you you're blessing your host and it's a very beautiful little blessing over here it says that he shouldn't be humiliated he shouldn't be shamed at all and what he does it should be successful and close to the close to the city shouldn't have to travel a lot in order to make a that al-ishloi sutton bamasu yadav and the the sutton the evil incarnation shouldn't get a hold of him he should remain pure it's a very beautiful little prayer so it's a blessing for the maya best blessing for the balaban what if you didn't like the meal then for sure you should bless him for sure you should bless him never he has to eat this stuff every day you know it's not um you know there's a uh there's a there's a beautiful story i heard this story from rabbi kaplan actually uh years ago he said that uh there was a fellow learning in the yeshiva near stroll in baltimore and his father came to visit him and his father missed his train and ended up getting there much later than he was supposed to be getting there and he hadn't eaten and his sons asked his father he can get him something to eat from the kitchen even though the kitchen was closed right maybe he was able to go in and get something so he said yeah you know whatever that you know whatever he said is it anything you don't want so the father said he just don't don't bring me macaroni anything else so he brought him a tuna sandwich and as the father is eating the tuna sandwich the son says to his father he says daddy you know we have macaroni cheese at home every thursday night my father had told him don't bring it i can't i can't stand macaroni don't bring me macaroni so he said that but daddy we have macaroni and cheese every thursday night so the father said the most incredible thing he said macaroni his father had grown up he had been with the mir during the second world war and traveled through russia and ended up in japan and he said that they got through the war in shanghai they actually got through intact its most incredible story you've had the opportunity to read about it really it's most astonishing story and he said the food in shanghai was was infested with slugs everything everything had to be checked and double checked and triple checked and they didn't always succeed because it was just like everywhere everything was infested and he said macaroni always reminds him of those slugs so exactly i think that's what he said yeah yeah so the boy looks he says but daddy you know you every every thursday night you eat this at home so he said he says i didn't want to say anything to your mother it's an interesting thing right you wanna you know this this is what they do this is the easy easiest thing for to be able to prepare it's heir of shabbat right it's not not so simple to prepare supplement thursday night and prepare shabbat as well so that's the easiest thing to do and he didn't want to eat it but he ate it anyway because he didn't he didn't want to he didn't want to trouble his wife he'd want to upset her right so yeah save the broccoli you should be saying maybe maybe around by somebody who doesn't like his wife's cooking say this broccoli for sure without a doubt um and then afterwards here it says that's if you're eating at your own table if you're eating at the table of your parents so then you should say avi marie who should bless my father balabai again you're working out if you just follow follow the uh you know follow what it says over here you'll be able to work out what needs to be done after that is bummer wrong that needs to be said as well and then on the next page again we've got a another another great box over here depending on what day it is depends what you say which means if it's shabbat you add in the if it's a festival you add in for the festival rosh hashanah sukkot if shabbat coincides with both right let's say for example shabbat and rashford coincide or shabbat and yomtov coincide so you would say two say the one for shabbat and say the one for yomtov or say the one for and then over here rahmani's came back into the white part underneath the box now depending on whether it's a weekday or whether it's shabbat or yomtov would depend on whether you now say the word magdil or migdol magdal amygdal are two words that appear in in in the words of the navi uh one at one point it appears in psalms it appears as mgdoll and wait hold on a second ma i'm sorry mag as magdale and in shmuel the book of samuel appears as migdol and depending on whether it's shabbat or whether it's young younger depends on which one you say i'm not 100 sure why the differentiation is made yeah do they vote on this did they vote on what like adding this this is like seven pages of prayer here that's what many people don't like i just don't i don't understand that this is an overkill no nobody thinks well is this overkill first of all there used to be a phrase in hollywood that if it's worth doing it's worth overdoing and i think that's a very jewish that's a very jewish approach to things right which means if it's worth benching it's worth overbenching right for sure yeah now boys i listen if we eat we overeat so at least we should over bench as well yeah no that's not fair i think it's a good idea don't do it though oh okay good you know what good point i i would say like this i i don't know i don't agree with you maybe maybe for you it's not conducive right because it seems it seems like an awful lot to do i agree with you most people majority of people they mumble and they just to get down it's too long yeah so that's the case if that's the case then i think you should you should given the choice between mumbling everything because it's too long or saying it properly up until the end of the block of ali maybe that would be a better thing to do to leave out leave out the last bit which doesn't have the brokers inside of it and to say the parts that have the brothers properly right rather than to mumble your way through something which you know you know you don't have an awful lot of desire to be saying because it's too long or it's too difficult whatever the reason right and i think that uh it's a very important idea it really is and prayer does seem to be sometimes long it does seem to be sometimes repetitive and yet we're supposed to be saying this and we're supposed to be wanting to be saying it as well which means that right now perhaps the idea is to be concentrating on you know what what you can say what you do want to say with the hope that as you move on it will be able to expand a little bit i've met lots of people over here especially in the yoshimura over here who never benched before and when they start benching they're very much they're very much enthusiastic about being able to bench and being able to say the whole thing so i think it's got it's got a lot to do with you know maybe it's got a lot to do with with you know personality some people prefer to do a little properly some people are happy to do a lot you know if you find it to be too much then definitely stop at ali castrano and concentrate on saying that properly rather than saying the whole thing the last piece over here and then we we've uh that's it we've got to the end you don't have to say any more after this although you might be hungry again by the time you finish benching it takes so long to do uh is you are euros hashem kudoshov and over there once you finish that you're done benching is now over the one last thing that is sometimes done which depending on whether you are benching with a minion or not if you've got 10 men sitting down together and benching together so very often at the end of benching the person who led the benching to begin with will make a broker over a cup of wine and he'll make the brocco bokeh everybody will answer amen to the brother and then he'll drink enough from that wine to be able to make an after broker afterwards right so just just to keep you happy over here not only have you just recited the whole of beer katamazon and spent all this time benching but if you're the person who was leading the benching and now you're going to make a brock over the wine you've now got to make a al amigo over the wine you've just drunk which is going to take another little bit of time as well good okay we're going to stop over here it's hashem tomorrow we're going to carry on with a lot more halacha orientated this was perhaps a little bit more practical you know the the uh what what was saying what we're not saying and um tomorrow we'll continue you