Rabbi Nachman Seltzer – Hacham Baruch Ben-Haim

[Music] Welcome to Inside Arts Scroll, where the books that we read and the people that write them come to life. It's a pleasure and an honor to welcome all the way from Ra Shemesh, prolific author, Rabbi Nakman Seltzer. Shalom, Rabbi Seltzer. Shalom. It's so good to be here with you. from to lake to to Rahei. It's a short distance, you know, one heart to another heart. Rabbi Seltzer, the book that we're going to be discussing, which is a compelling read. I I literally couldn't put it down. It's fantastic. It's amazing. Is a book about Kakam. Rabbi Seltzer. I never heard of Kakham Baruk. I'm an Ashkanazi boy in the Ashkanazi world, but once I started reading this book, I feel like I wish I knew him. But here's my question just from the get-go. How does a Ashkanazi rabbi in Ramap Shemsh get to write a fat thick book about avariam in Brooklyn? How did that come about? So it first of all if they had to choose someone to write a book about a Syrian rabbi from Brooklyn, if you go through all my contemporaries, I probably for this particular book the right person because I grew up in that area not far from from Shedion. grew up on East 7th and P and Flapush and uh right next to Ben Of and Rabbi Benal Shul and really not far from Shil and so I myself grew up in that community today it's much more Syrian but I then it was more mere but I grew up there so I'm familiar with those people I ded the MOF I used to go there in the morning with my father I I I knew the mentality I grew up uh hearing the Davening grew up eating breakfast in the shul so for me it wasn't like something like out of the blue I actually was familiar with it but leg how it started and one day I get I was going to America for a wedding first time after co hadn't been in America for a few years and we all set to leave the day before I'm leaving so I I get a few actually a few like a week or what week let's say a week before um David the Rabbi son got in touch with me about doing the book and he got back to me a day before I'm leaving so I I extended ed my ticket for a week and I stayed in Brooklyn another week just to interview like I don't know dozens and dozens of people from the community cuz everybody wanted to be to tell me their stories and share their memories about he was like the galad over there he was mish you know he was the rishai and he was the man everyone respected him he was beloved beyond beloved so everybody wanted to speak to to me and tell me their stories so it was an amazing week and even when When I came back, I spoke to a lot of people, but that's the background of how it happened. Um, why how an Ashkenazi boy from Brooklyn ended up writing a book about absolutely fascinating. Just how many people do you think you spoke to to before you know you started writing the actual book itself? I don't know 70 80. Wow. And then how do you decide what to put into the book once you have, I don't know, 700 hours or whatever it is of content? Um, how did I decide? Look, you know, some a lot of look, I got to the point where when people would start telling me stories, I would say, okay, are you telling me this story? And I would just say, okay, don't tell me that story because I know that story already. By the end of the week, I was already doing that. So, I would tell people, tell me your unique stories. So, so that's how I we hone it down so that the interviews aren't it's not just people telling me the same stuff. So basically whatever people are telling me is is mo is is mostly usable. Let's let's jump right in. So we have talk talk to us about his humble beginnings if you want to call it that. He he was not born in Brooklyn. He wasn't born in Syria. Talk to us a little bit about his his beginnings as a child maybe as a baker and then we'll segue into becoming if you want to call it that. All right. So he was born in in uh his mother was a Rabanit. His father was the Rav his grandparents. He came from a long line of rabbanim all the way from Baghdad and they were you know close to the beneskai they used to listen to the banishes dras mish very kubalim and his mother took him when he was a little boy to paratio in the old city and she told him when you come into parat you're going to see malim and she meant that the mubalam learning there are like angels and when he came in he first was looking around he really was he was really looking for angels and he was scared even to look at the people there but he ended up staying in for many many years and they ended up becoming with they were and best friends and the two of them would walk back and forth from B is to to um to the and they would review their both of them and they beca and they were best friends and they were oft was and they were part of what was called the wonder class. These was their class ended up becoming they went around the world. They did kov you know in this world they went around to Panama and went to to Egypt first went to South Africa first but eventually they all became very very big was part of their and it was really like the was really the the call them the wonder class not for no reason they were the ones who kept theic world from a lot of them went around the world and really makazik the communities and he was part of that. But he was such a amazing uh he was a person who would very very he knew he one of the things he did in Brat he was the librarian Barat Ysef. So every time a new safer came he learned it he would learn to cover to cover. He could be on the ladder in the library looking up a thing and forget he's on the ladder and be there for 5 hours. 5 hours later he comes down the ladder. Ask him any safer from the library. He knew where it was and he knew what was inside it. He he once told someone everything he learned was before he was 20 years old which is which is so amazing because he gets this incredible position of leadership of trying to build a community but the foundation of it is Tyra in its purest form. To me that was so inspiring and I think all those kids out there who are under 20, you got to understand guys like you could become you could become but you got to give it all you have and get on those ladders and and read those and and make them become part of you. and walk back and forth from Bora Park to Flapush saying do that. That's a big thing, too. And and by the way, now I can understand why he was kakimova's karusa. They both could look at a safer cover to cover and remember everything that was inside of it. Yeah. Okay. So, so he's growing up in this insular community from the Ashkanazi community in Basis to Paratio. The Well, the community basis was probably more at that time. Got it. And he himself lived in in Shalim also. Correct. Yeah. He grew up said Israel was a spar was a spar community. He was growing up mus it's a you know if you go to the shukba you know it's it's a it's a spar world over there. Got it. Got it. And but it's an insular area. It's it's tyra it's learning. It's gay. It's kabala. And then all of a sudden he is that behind him. So, so then he gets older and eventually he gets uh you know his his being sent out and there was different job offers coming his way. His father said you can't go to Egypt and uh and eventually he wanted him to come with him to Egypt went to Egypt and he had a lot of tur in Egypt. It was terrible. He ended up doing a lot of jobs over there and he had a lot of trouble with the community and he ended up coming back to it was very hard for him in in Egypt. But Baruk went to South Africa and there he became the in Cape Town and he had a lot of stories over there in Cape Town. He also later because he walked under the hot sun later in his life he developed skin uh ailments. He had little marks on his skin because of that. But he he did very well there. The community loved him even though it was an Ashkenazi community and he was a rabbi. They loved him there. They wanted him to stay and he ruled on mikvas and he ruled on uh and there was a big story over there that there was a drought in South Africa and the prime minister who was the son of Israel. He blessed Bra with no choice. He sent a letter to the holy man was the rob of the Jews asking him to please have his people pray for South Africa that the drought should be finished made a a communitywide uh prayer service and the next day there was a torrential downpour. It was on all the newspapers from in South Africa that the rabbi did this and the next day the drought was over and I don't know if it changed the prime minister's opinion of the Jewish people but it was a huge kesh and so he was there for two years he did very well there but his brother passed away and he went back to and then again other job offers came up and there was he was looking into different job offers. One was in Iran and there was another one in in um I think it was in Amsterdam and then there was a the job offer in New York and Amsterdam was full of anti-semitism. Iran was a problem because he couldn't get a visa cuz he was from Iraq and then Iran and Iraq were enemies. So that left New York and he ended up taking a boat to uh to America and where he became the assistant rabbi of Kasin who was the chief rabbi of the community in Brooklyn and Kasin right away chose him to be his son-in-law for his daughter Charlotte which is amazing. How old was he when he got married? In his 20s. Yeah. And you could you can imagine the transition. Did he speak English at all when he came to the So he was in South Africa for 2 years. So he learned English. Correct. Also remember when he was growing up he was shal was under the British and he spoke Yiddish also. Correct. Spoke Yiddish. He spoke he he could d he could d in the like a liter guy. He could lane like a liter guy. He could d into the as if he was coming out yeshiva. And for fun sometimes he would he would do that for fun. He would he would do that if he was getting an ali. Let's say in a like in the mirror like he could he could totally brav like a like a like a rashiva. He could do it with talas like he could do the he could do the lus like an Ashkanazi. He was holding in all the worlds. He was ambidextrous completely ambidextrous and he would let's say when you know the the kin deal he told me we'll get into today is one of the Syrians today in in America and he told me told me that he was in when he was a a young rabbi in in deal so there was a uh what this called a sabet that's it's like a kdish they make a lot of sabets and he was invited told the sabets cuz he was a big ro over there. So he said that uh one chabas he went to a sabbat and he was trying to convince the guy who made the sabbat the kdish to send his son to yeshiva and he told him your rebi was his rebi was rabbi Rosenfeld was a breast of person in America he said your rebies believes he got to go to yeshiva and you know it's important somebody spread a rumor that that diamond you know he knocked on him and just said and it spread all over a deal by the by mabis people were swearing that that there There was a fist fight at the sabet that somebody had to knock down diamond because he was knocking this diamond call already heard about it. He says come to me tomorrow. So Diamond drives in to to Brooklyn. He tells the whole story said don't worry I understand. Everything's fine. He made a he made a phone call. He made two phone calls. That was it. That was his power. He was the he was like the king you know a one phone call the whole thing was over. But when he but even you know so you think okay he's an amazing rabbi he could give but but lundus like who says you know so they he told me when they would have him in the kyo he would get up one time him and rabishwaki told me they they invited him to speak in the kyo and he comes in there he says what are you learning and they told him what they were learning and he got up and he gave a shir he just went piece after piece quoting theres quoting all the raid mish piece after piece after piece of was like, "All right, he's not just a rabbi, a community rabbi. He's like a he's like a rashiva. He's pilpi. He was at a sheras for uh Rabbi Rabbi Nas Sherman's son-in-law, Rabbi Sutton. He was at a Sherbus over there and he and he gave a whole pill over there maybe in honor of Nas Sherman till they were like everyone's like, "Okay, Rabbi, we don't understand what you're talking about. Please." But he was holding he could do that. He was really holding it in in all the worlds. That's fantastic. That's Rabbanit Charlotte. So she grows up in the United States part at least part of her her in her upbringing and it's the what is it's like the late 1940s you know growing up as a as someone that could be a Rabanit for a mak like how does how do you raise a girl like that and tell us a little bit about the Rabanit. That was something which was very fascinating because they produced this amazing mishbah and she was there behind him and he makes this big impact. Do you could you share with us a little bit about the rabbi? I I I don't know how to to raise a daughter like like he did. I don't know cuz it was very hard cuz she had no friends cuz cuz she was the rabbi's daughter and there was no one else who was from and but somehow she marries the a person who was very from and she ends up being ham to him like they never went on vacation. One time she convinced him to go to Miami. One time after that trip he said never bring me back here again. And he said to her and she understood that they're not going on vacation together. She wants to go on vacation. She's going with her friends, with her daughter, with with her daughter-in-laws, with her sister-in-law. You're not he's not going on vac. He doesn't go on vacation. And she was moved to herself to that. But she she that's you know, if you sp you speak to her in Charlotte, even today, you ask her, you know, she was mameish on call. She was always going to she went with him to every and he went to every and she was with him and they went to and her house was always open you know it was always open there was always I spoke to a lot of the rabbanum the young rabbis so today they're the rabbis and they said you know you know as a rabbi they said we would come to his house sometimes you feel the weight of the world is on your shoulders and you come into him and this the slip covers on the couch there's a bowl of uh M&M's on the like uh like lentils on the table sucking candies. There's a plate of vegetables in the kitchen and the rabbit is the house is always open. Come in, you come speak to the rabbi. You have some big problem weighing you down, you speak to him, he calms you down, he tells you what to do, he gives you good advice and you leave a new man, but the, you know, his wife was behind him in every step of the way. She was there like it wasn't like it was mish partnership and some so his niece told me so her name is Shnie Cohen. her she married someone named Ronnie Khan. They live across from uh BMG. They were the first like Syrian family to move into Lakewood. They live right across from BMG. So she told me that she was by her aunt and uncle and do the shopping. He would do the shopping and he would come home with all the stuff. So one day they were in deal across from the shul. They had a house across from the shul that the community put built for them. And he comes in with all the bags and he goes over to his wife. He goes Charlotte he says to her. He used to call Charlotte. He says look what I brought you. and he gives her this big chocolate bar and Shnie reminded her aunt of this like you know many many years later and her aunt was already you know she's already older and she's like I remember he brought me this chocolate bar and and Charlotte says with almonds in it and and he said and the Rama is like look what I brought for you Charlotte it's beautiful it is very it is very beautiful um you know I wish we could talk about this for hours because literally you could probably talk about it maybe even for days. It wasn't all smooth sailing. Let's call it Spade always smooth sailing. There were definitely challenges and problems. Share with us, I don't know, some of the at least one challenge that jumps out at you that the RV had to contend with to be able to to maintain his position and do terra etc. There were many challenges. Remember the community was very was not like it is today. Today the community is a tremendously growing community. It's like I look I call it the the Syrian community. It's the sleeping giant. People don't understand if 20 years from now this community is it's going to eclipse. I don't know what's going to happen here. I can tell you right now if people don't understand what's going on on Ocean Parkway alone there's like 5,000 people learning every day just in the Syrian shores alone. If you go into on today you have 2,000 people every let's say 1500 to 2,000 people learning every day. On Shabas is between 2 and 3,000 people who come to learn there. Every morning before David, you have thousands of people. People don't understand what's going on. It wasn't like this 50 years ago. Forget about Lakewood is huge in terms of the Syrian community. There's a thousand Syrian families in Lakewood today. People don't understand what's going on. So, but it wasn't like this. There was nobody was from and he comes in and he has to work with this community and he has to to you know, he has to work with them slowly. Rabak had this, you know, you work slowly with them. They don't run away. like you could force them to do things and then they're not going to they're going to go to reform. So you have to work with them. But one thing they were very very mad was something called the takana. The takana was started back in Argentina and the idea was that that nobody from the Syrian community is allowed to marry a girus or a ger and if you do you're out your kids aren't going to go to schools. We're going to you can't be part of the community. And the idea was because they were afraid of intermarriage. And by the way, that insistence on being makb on the taka, which they they redid a number of times through the years, is what saved that community. Like in in essence, if Ashkanazi would have done such a thing, who knows what maybe a lot of people would have married out. You know, again, it's argued with him on this. But he's he stood his ground and his father-in-law stood his ground. And that was a big thing because a lot of times people, you know, he would hire private investigators to fly out to different places to find out the background of people, their mothers, their grandmothers. And he every person who got married had to come to him before. And he would write down in his book who their father was, their mother, their a grandparents, the ancestry, what day was the wedding. There's books of records. He knew every single person in the community and who their grandparents were and who they were. and and and that way they were able to avoid tremendous amounts of of uh of intermarriage and it kept the community strong and everyone married Syrians and everyone married Jews. So that was one very important thing and they were very m but they wouldn't bend. Amazing. Fascinating. Could you share with us what what fact, what story, what episode shocked you the most from those hundred people that you talked to? What was the most meaningful moment? I'll tell you a story that I loved. I mean there's so many stories really. This is a I enjoyed writing this book so much. It was a great book and the family's like and when I'm leaving I get this question a lot when I'm writing a book. The family says to me, "How are you going to do this? How are you going to capture you never met him? How are you going to capture him?" Like they it's so hard for them to understand. I'm like, "Look, you'll wait and see." They they they're very happy with the book, you know, but again, when you interview you do so many interviews, you eventually get a feeling of who the person was. You really do. Now he was not like you, everyone knew when you go to him, he could give you a a slap. It was a a slap of endearment. It was like a a badge of honor to get a slap of didn't slap people. But I could tell you one story somebody came to tell me. I was staying by my friend Alan Essis on on Ocean Parkway. I became friends with him. I stayed by his house when I was doing this project. And every morning people would come to his house by breakfast. Mamesh, my day started very early because we got in as many people as possible as we could get in. People would come after the join us for breakfast. And one guy comes in, he tells, I want to tell you a story. He says, I'm a co. So one day I go to and I say, Rabbi, I have a question. He said, what's the question? He says, I'm a co and I I want to know there's a disco in Manhattan and I want to go to the disco in Manhattan. Like, why are you telling me this? like he's thinking like why are you telling me this? The guy's like I want to go to the disco in Manhattan but the problem is that the disco is in a church and and from what I understand some churches buried people in the basement of the church. So as a coin I want to know if I'm allowed to go to a church so I can go to a disco looking at this guy like he's off his rocker and he said he his response he gave him the only response he could give him. He slapped the guy across the face. He told me, the guy told me that he slapped me into sanity. It was the only response he could give me. Like, what? You don't understand? You're asking a rabbi if you go to a disco in a church and your only thing you're worried about is that is that maybe there's dead people in the building. Today, this guy is a marit tora in Flatbush in the Syrian community. But all because of that one slap. And I I didn't hear from anyone else. He didn't slap people. But there was the one that guy needed a zets and he gave the guy a zets and he punched zets him and became you know like it's not like we were growing up in yeshiva we got patched this guy needed a zets to become who he could become understood he needed it and he gave it to him he never did this to anyone else everyone else got a how you doing or or or this or that but that guy and I to me it was like a mika story I I blew me away fascinating Rabbi Seltzer this has been so amazing as such an interesting conversation. I highly recommend that everyone go out there and buy the book. But I just want to warn you, make sure you block out some time because if you pick it up, you're not going to be able to put it down. Rabbi Salafir and Desmay to keep cranking out high quality books, fascinating books and inspiring clalis one person at a time. Thank you. I just want to end off that the one great thing about there's many many facets of but the one one of the great things was that and this kept on coming up and this will end was that he was a person that you could ask the same question to him and he would give a different answer to every single person depending on that person like one person like I'll give you an example where somebody he's somebody's on a bike he was very against bike riding on chabas of course but he he sees a guy on a bike and and the guy says to him you know good chabas rabbi and he says says to the guy, "Gabis," and he and he sees a guy, you know, on a bike and he says to the guy, "What are you doing? Why are you on a bike?" And people ask him, "What's the difference?" And he says, "This guy used to be in a car and now he's riding a bike. He gets a good chabas. This guy used to be a yeshiva. Now he's on a bike. He doesn't get a good he gets a musm." So meaning that was the way because he knew every person in the community and he understood them. He knew what they were holding. He knew their psychology. He knew their brain. He knew how it worked. He knew their family. He was able to work with every single person on an individual level. And today the community is an unbelievable giant making tremendous strides in Torah and it all started a lot of it tremendous amount started from. Thank you so much for sharing that. Thank you. [Music]