Rabbi Moshe Chaim Seckbach - From the Vineyard to the Four Cups Shiur at Scheiner's Shul

sh it's a for me to be able to share a little bit of my experience in uh making kosher Wines in Europe but say that we say and we lift up the cup what's Happ lift up the Cup by by the says one to cause travel to Eden but they have two could be through of could also be through into marriage of the Eden will be with them he says that's why we say B we need to D for two different different that we have to D for one is from the of and also from the when it doesn't look like X when they want to be M so he says we shouldn't drink we should we shouldn't have uh caser with the go so that's why we pick up this cup of wine wine and we say this wine that's we can't drink every wine that's what saved us from that saved us from into marriage before I start I believe want to know that's what the notice says what how we make kosher Wines in the French places there one decided this trip I want to bring up to the to the a lot of people have cleaning cleaning ladies coming to the house and they have open balls so obviously the a say is to finish the balls and never to leave any balls open that's the best eight but person has an expensive wine and it's he doesn't want to finish it or he doesn't like wine and he just uses his b KES so he puts it in the fridge and then okay he knows he knows he has to be careful so he thinks that there's a called means that if the bar is in the house and the cleaner is there okay so we have a the problem is that many times it goes into a certain s and every Sunday morning orever Monday morning the balabusta goes shopping and then there's times where the great to have no M anymore she knows she knows there's no one around anymore so when there's no of of of in such a case is only when there's when the when the has a us from touching it and it's also that was with becomes also we have to be that she touched it and that's even today that the says even to we have to assume that the go wants to touch this wine to that's that's to start before if you have in the market different barrels of wine you find a go in between all these afraid of him of that he's afraid of being taken to court touching it he he's going to be punished he's going to be taken as a g then it's m then we can real that this m this this that the GU has to have that he's afraid that we're going to take him to court the what does he mean going to take him to court and he has to know that if he touches the wine he's M the wine he's afraid touches a bowel he's going to be charged charged for it the big problem is nowadays I don't think that too many cleaning ladies are going to be afraid that you're going to take them to court what are they going to do maximum should say I'm sorry you're not going to take it to court for for one bottle of wine there's no misses of of so we don't have such a anymore we cannot rely on the fact that you know you go in and out of there's no there's no and you find him in between the barrels there we have to assume that the go wants to touch everything he wants to be only if we know that the go is a go that's Afraid from then as go we can assume that he is not going going to touch the wine and we can be m to the wine but that's that's a go that has no to the E the case talk about and were drinking together they had together they were sitting on a table know it's a business business meeting I don't know what was so as I go that already has to him there we can rely on the fact that the go won't do something that's going to harm their relationship and may that there the M says they can eat even rely on a wine that's on the side you have a in the house you really have to weigh out the the relationship you have with this cleaning lady will she be afraid will will it harm her relationship with her if she's new by you maybe she will she she will touch as I said before the best is to finish the one the second option is to put put means you take the wine bottle you seal it up put paper tape one way and the other way you'll see how we do it in in the plant the same idea you can do at home you take a paper paper tape one way like this and then and around you take your outline and you put at the Joint of the paper that's and you can put it in the fridge like that the third option is to place it in a way that when you come back you see it exactly the way it is that means you are you're making it wasn't touched is made for for for when we when the proof is just going to be that the wasn't broken but if you have a way of putting it you're putting it behind three other jars of whatever mayonnaise or something in a way that is claw that if the go would touch it she wouldn't D put it back in the same way then when you come back you have a that she didn't touch it but when you put it into the fridge you have to be aware that that's the open you put it in this is just I think for some people it's important to know that it's not to have open WIS at at home now the sign says we're going to show you how we make kosher Wines in a non kosher Factory oh want just to show this one minute to show you something security camera sorry security camera security camera she didn't know that she was being watched now she needs a second shot also okay suggest the should remember the what k um now I will explain to bit later maybe we not to be that every every cleaning lady is going to do such as that we have to be careful when we go to place first place the first thing we have to do before even we cash a the place before we'll seal up all the containers of wine for those who learned the M that even if it's completely sealed did everything we cased everything we cannot rely on said is one of the four things that needs to is something that the go will be afraid of opening and touching because he may not be able to put it back and then you'll notice it you'll notice he touched the it doesn't have to be something that's impossible for the go to to to break every the could theoretically come with with cameras make pictures and and try and copy it and imitate it if you made something that has certain level of difficulties it's a that's to be to to to put back into the same shape you're allowed to 100% the V is that the the wine is that the is going to want to be he's going to want to touch the wine that belongs to the either because or he's going to want to do it said these is enough to take away will will touch it and is that you don't even have to check the when you come back as long as they look to you the same it's fine only if you see if you see that they're broken then you have a problem but you're not to check and have a look whether there because that's what said the wine waser we made to take away that he's going to want to touch it so that's what you have to do if we're talking about making a wine by the winery it's it belongs to him and it's it's by him it doesn't lie by you when it's and it's is we cannot rely even on so how do we make a wine by the great places so there's different AES the only the one which is practical is what we talk about but there's AES if the go pays the if he has if he he spent expens he has expenses for the koser wine then we would say he wouldn't want to lose his expenses by not being by touching his own wine but that's not so realistic because usually it's the he show that's hiring the M it's not the the go that's going to pay the m so made the go as far as he's concerned it's his wine still his it's by him he hasn't invested anything so the is that we do is we make what they call with a we make a contract a contract with a that we are and we buy from him and we pay ahead of the production we pay few th000 and we have a contract that we are sh those state in the PO over here that if it's not 100% it's then then we can rely on how do you make the contract so it's not enough just to put down a deposit CU deposit is doesn't mean you are just means that if you back out the contract you lose your money but that doesn't make a more than that even if we write in the cont in in the contract that we are buying so and so this amount of barrels so there's a that says same idea that the can come and say okay those are yours and those are mine and he touch some of them that's not good enough to say that we have a of the barrels we have to be a in every single barrel we have to make a contract that we are in every single container we have 3% that's good enough but we are in every barel what's the sh sh is we do the contract with a with with the winery before before the wine is there when he when he hasn't got the grapes yet some of the grapes he still has to buy them so this contract doesn't the the say that we don't need a contract that's all we need to do is a contract that the thinks that me you have to do a contract with a lawyer he thinks that it's valid and it's and he sees it as the all idea is to make it that the guy shouldn't want to touch the wine so as long as we made a contract that we that would be one of the they made such a contract with a go when there was a shortage of wine and the go gave away all the wine he gave away all the wine M comes there and he says wait where is our wine go says that's it I gave it to my friend so this the took the go to court in Holland and the go wasak the whatever know was but he was so the there went to and asked so what do we do today we make a contract with a go and even we don't get through heal said as we don't have to be cous that every is going to get get through the Mish normal guy is still afraid and he's not going to go to he's going to be afraid of getting to court whatever happened to the a guy maybe he gave a normal we can still make koser Wines By Doing a contract of we have the that it's not called anymore it's by the go so even though it lies by the we can we can we can do that it's not working one second let's put that big down yeah that one hope it opens open it okay so when we go to French when we go to one of those chat people want french wines they want Spanish wines they want G wines they want all different kind of wines don't need the sound um we go we come to these G places we need to for which is before we start making the wine we need to caser the place we need to caser the place so we bring their group of M and they have to CER the place what do we have to CER so this we have to know that the that we cas K him from from [Music] uh one second I just okay the open that we C the of the so there's different types of K there C where we keep the wine in there those have that we have to C them we call it a real but we have to know that it's not that we have to do when a is it has different says of of of is completely different there's a lot of rice to it you can Cas something we cannot Cas by we can caser CLE by when a a CLE of wine is left for one year over after one year becomes either is B over there if you have B the tree can be as old as many years but you still have to Cas because it stays St B inside as far as form of when it's when it's still with but when it dried up completely after a year you can your M it even if even if it would maybe give a even a taste maybe would give to the wine we see so when we we arrive there we have to cash everything now this this this is the place where we're going to pour all the grapes when they arrive this is not clay this is what they Callas cagas means the K that used Ste for the production of the wine they need what says means they have to be scrubbed and cleaned thoroughly and here this go down and they pick every single every single what you call seed seeds all the seeds they take them out even though it's basically impossible to clean completely same way as people try and clean their kenwoods or machines for p The Toasters sometimes you can't clean it completely last in the in the The Press where the presses his grapes when is comes to do a as I said we don't need it's to really go down and pick them all out I we gonna have there that were maybe that would have a bit of so the place can speak about it I'm not interested in them I don't need them and it's not a sh of because this is not what I'm looking for in a you can't clean it but obviously we the MIM go down and they clean it to the maximum they can and then they use costic acid to to do the and it's we always receive the wineries always nearly always at the beginning of the harvesting time we made it they're very very clean because the the going from year to year these machines are used only for two three weeks a year by the harvesting time and that's it the whole year they're left there's no use for them there's no there's no grapes America maybe there's two two crops a year but in Europe there's one season Su time that's what we have so M go down and they clean it so now how do we Casher so we can either cash with which is what you have to do or water of water yes three times 24 hours that's the have go inside these big tanks and they clean it thoroughly and it's very hot it comes out every now and again to take some fresh air it can take them about 45 minutes inside there in this with boiling hot water I was just just like to finish before the that so the cashing um M or you should which is another way if you have if you already have battels for a long time from year to year you keep them then you don't need to cat them or there's another is by what they call that means not that allow to do even though normally needs not just says you can C with and even though we don't we don't we C with with with but the say that if it's that's that's steady from the from from from the hot from the it's being heating element the heating element so there it's it's considered and we can also it that way that that they allow such now the now in in the harvesting there's two types of harvesting there is the harvesting that the go go and they pick obviously here there's no problem at all that they go and pick the the harvesting and pick the grapes and then you have what they call machine harvesting these are these machines different types again I always say I'm sorry this is not Hollywood uh quality but Shish enough for the to understand the the ideas it's different kind of of harvesting machines that correct that they pick up all the grapes now then if is into the sugis or not about those some of them are there there's a not to want to use not not not to use there's a certain that became popular in the last few years not no not not you when it's machine harvesting that the pouring of the machine in the field should be done by m and not by the go now this is by a misunderstanding no not a misunderstanding I'll explain where it comes from there's a gor that says that you're not allowed to allow the to bring the grapes to the press and why the ran says the ran says that you're not allow to let the go bring the Great AP to the gas to the Press because he may touch he may come to actually touch wine that's wine when is it only when it's that means when I'm pressing it to actually separate the the the juice from the so says you mustn't says you shouldn't allow the go to bring the grapes to the gas I just want to finish that so you shouldn't allow the go to bring the to the gas because he may touch the r says a different reason he says because when you pour these big containers of grapes you pour there's also wine coming out it's a it's a pouring says the the you have of of you come to he come to to pour wine what's thean and the the riv it why if you have a pouring that precedes the gas it's not by the gas it's not the place of the press it's earlier than that if is you're going to touch so whatever is before the gas there's no problem whatsoever you can allow the going to do everything but if [Music] it's says the we have to be also to that's before the gas in the picture it look it's before it's before it's in the fields it's in the field I don't know exactly how many years we proved and that's how most wines were done in till I don't know how many years ago but were were they didn't no one was that the should be on the Machinery by the pouring in the fields today wants to to and we want that will be that there'll be a m on that harvesting machine and he'll be the one pressing the but to do that pouring but again it's a pouring of it's not because it's a it's not wine if even if the guy would touch there it wouldn't be a problem because it's it's comput it's it's it's grapes and even though there's a pouring of grape that precedes of of liquid that comes out before the grapes that means I'm only pouring it but I intend to put it all back together that means I'm not really intending to to separate at this stage the the wine from The Grapes we don't have to it when we can when you can you do it then you will be that there be a on the on that harvesting machine doing the pouring pressing the buttons [Music] again this is the kind of job that and the can do it's grapes they just they're taking away the leaves and the whatever that you find there make there's no problem go should do it obviously when we can we try and you know get the to do the maximum that we can says should be you can but make you have to know as this is nich that's not it's not wine and there's no real problem when the does those [Music] jobs okay now we come to the press the Press this is the old machines and this is the old gas this is the old press where you put the grapes in you turn the and over here where you see this is those those who learn the Mish that's where the Y starts being separated from this is the okay after we have pressed I forgot to say on the in the red wine so the so it goes into the barrels together with all the Skins because the color of the wine the red of the wine comes from the skins in the red wines it's pressed immediately and then put in without all the [Music] [Applause] there's all different kind of of barrels there's wood metal um smaller ones bigger ones this is a grape juice one in in Spain got 2 million liters but it's kept ker from near to a don't need to cash it that would be very hard to cure to millon and then as we said obviously you have to do at every part of the the containers make there's tape and we also write which would for sure be a so this is the work of the MIM obviously at the end of the day or during the all the time to seal up every single place then we can leave it we have to and as we said before we have we in the wine so we can rely [Music] on this can take quite a long time at the end of a long day to to make sure that everything is sealed [Music] up and then after a year or two depending on each wine eventually goes into balls so this is a truck this is the the most of these small places do not have their own facilities to fill up the balls they have a truck that comes the truck is obviously as we said before it's clear gas but it doesn't need it only needs a the trucks arrive clean obviously because every night they're completely sterilized and and and uh shouldn't be any cross uh contamination from one kind or another or anything so they come they come in the morning with certificates that been cleaned thoroughly obviously we again do another cleaning with CTIC soda um acid that should be again that we did Even though get the contracts the certificates that's been cleaned every night but that's the make through the the whole system again soda CTIC acid and then eventually it's being filled up now this is the just putting the bottle the bottles on the machine the can do obviously it's empty botles there's no problem the doing that part of the job obviously all the Machinery everything the ye has to press all the buttons he's not out to touch anything these are the bigger balls magnums [Music] [Applause] [Music] all wi this is one of the bigger places it's grape juice actually it's in Spain it's that's very big that's but the this machines are so the balls get washed and cleaned and dried and then the grape juice in the process between wine and grape juice sorry what the differ in the process between wi the process is that when it's grape juice you stop the fermentation when it's still sweet make how it make the difference between to make it to a grape juice to a wine sorry what they do different in order to Mi you stop the fermentation or you stop it and then the wine the the sugar turns into alcohol but you can stop it beforehand so you stop it and and you you keep it with the sulfites usually to stop the fermentation and then you bot is sweet then it's not quicker [Music] um I and New York they have only working working open only from Yen K mind is the best better than this cuz you don't need no cashing whenever we Casher a place we have to D should be done right father from and used to say that has to do everything and then hope that is so they have to do everything but cashing is still so we have to hope that we're doing it right do not need to cash anything everything is caser all year and don't all the K are new so they don't need to Cas they will never with wines we come to places where many places we keep the same barrels from year to year but there are times when you have to caser something and and has a m that we don't have that's not Israeli wine that you don't have to go into the sh of MIT B so I advise people to think this is the out there so they make themselves from but they still decide to build themselves different kind of sucus don't take a not for the cases of it not for the it also not on but they have to sometime leave drive six hours from wherever they are down to be there at 7:00 in the morning because the decides when he wants the winery to be done and and that's why we have to be there we have to have a whole group of M that come there on on time whenever the go calls I believe the wants to hear a bit about it's one of the Su with steam steam no nobody cashes with steam it's water steam water usually wants to know what if anyone else has other questions is usually the that everyone wants to hear about [Music] people think that when he says on the or 89° celsus then it's not mamish boil boiled because it's not 100 and that's a mistake because 100 Celsius is for water but for alcohol Al wine has alcohol and the boiling point is lower is by 80 usually not them by water is also not 100 but water is depending on the air pressure if you go up onto the Mount Everest orever one of these mountains you try and boil up water over there it'll be much lower it be at 90° Celsius so there's no such a sheer B of 100 and even and from our experience all wine comes to Boiling Point by 80° or so 79 even so when he says 89° it's boiled it came to what the says where is the sh about the sh is that in the there's a various when they explain when why not go either because it became the the the Bish ruins the the taste of it and say that that you boil it till it's so it has lost a bit of its quantity also changes the taste or the says because it's different in from there come make if they write why because pistol pasturization is a closed circuit and there's no evaporation there's no so some some will say if there's if everything is kept in the same system and there's no actual umite there's no not no evaporation at all in this Bish then you are not what said that you have to do for the Bish Accord to those that say that that's what you need to do so will make they write and they won't write M others will write M at 89 degrees they're basically telling you you that's what we're doing we're cooking it at 89° and it's a pistol because it's it's they're not going getting involved into into those Shas but the some of them will make a difference maybe between whether it's pasturization that actually has an part of it that evaporates or some of them will ask that the machine should have a valve that opens up there should be an is evaporation and then they'll call it and they won't call the other one or you have that holds says that writes if today became so he can't use it anymore on that one can argue others argued with that it's not called didn't become still a m of win of all the wines the fact that we order and we may ask we ask them and beg them to make certain ones for us and most of them don't agree and even the ones who do is we decided we have to do a Bish for our for our market for our o because we have a problem with with waiters but others hold that that that's not called that they became we still have the you always have people who want to be all the on the fact that wine that's pasted is called a little bit more about I want we spoke at the beginning about the of the with the wines but then you have another whole set of which is not a question of which is a question of when the moves or touches wi BS it's nothing to do with that's to do with what the go actually did for example the moved the waiter moved the ball so first of all people have to know that if there's a lid on it a cork even it's half even if it's open Ball but the cork is back on there's no problem whatsoever if if it's being moved because is there's no in a wine that's in a closed I don't mean sealed just closed container and there's no problem with the go moved it the problem is only if it's completely open now even if it's completely open if the moves it very slowly very I said B that you know for sure you consider that the wine doesn't become if he moves it in an open that it's that it's not then you have a problem that becomes of of but that's a different sh you have to know what what the actually do we say it could be depends if it's Israeli waiters or waiters depending on how those you have to be careful about it any questions or that's why if you're Ling one that's touch it because a guy would use and the reason why they wouldn't use it is because the taste they ruin the taste it's not as ruined the taste Cooks out it does not have as strong of a taste really why that tast nothing that you don't taste it as could be that's right I didn't taste both but could be I tast that's why I to use non because of the taste no n when you say on a why not then Pastor has got nothing it's not nothing happens no for example according to one she it's considered even though most of the other sheet they say it's not depends what the temperature is 89 C is about 192 F so if it's if it came to Boiling Point it's called if it didn't come to the the point of the D that we need then it's not you have to know what Bas the is B what how do they make it taste the same how do the it's it's not so it's not uniform probably different grapes probably be you're asking how they make it that the grape juice should always be the same taste from why I was told I know from why I was told I think once how to make the taste they should always be the same is because whenever they have a sweet a crop that's sweeter than usual they'll make a concentrate from it and that's what they'll use every year to adjust the taste of the comp by the K grape juice yeah it's grape juice it's just concentrated grape juice so they'll add a bit if one year the grapes are a little more sour than usual they'll add in from the sweet concentrate to to to to get it to the right tasteing any water no it's just one yeah I'm talking about adding in concentrate if it come too sweet they're not adding water sorry if it come too sweet they're not adding water as far as I know there's no real water what blending blending the right yeah you blend the right type of of amor crop is sweeter than the other so they taste it all and they put them together to make sure that should be the same taste every year places not but I think there is a how do you mean the Bott the machine the machine cleans it cleans it and and dries it the bottom company has to agree also that they should it's not the same wiy right you get the Botts clean what do you mean you get take from the truck go the truck into the the sh all it's always new BS no no the line the buffing line ah the line for we have to it's a different you have to clean that factory also the trucks all the all the pipes everything has to be cleaned for because he said it's a different company no the truck arrives and it's clean and we we make another cleaning of the truck and all the pipes of the of the of the system yes for sure first of all non-religious you have to know what level of what level of M if it's a nonreligious that would still respect not to be m shabas in front of a or in front of 10 people yeah then it's not M shabas has to be a real that will do it in front of his Rob in front of 10 people today whether again many will tell you that it's pad that's not called the that there's no there's no you're allowed to marry his daughter if she's she's a good girl but he should be like a and and the should be that if he touches the line it's awesome but it's it's it's has a certain level of m not every that's not from yet