He Used to Sell Drugs - Now He Builds People

[Music] Where do you think your parents got the strength to to see that in you despite a bodyguard stabbing you and you were in a deep mess? They didn't get intimidated by the mess. They saw >> something more pure than that. How did they not get like intimidated by by the challenge and and get to see the real you? >> I think that what I'm about to say. >> Hey guys, welcome back. I'm super excited to share this episode with you. I sit down with Yenko Mislin. Uncle Meisen has a fascinating story. He used to be a drug lord in New York and now his role is literally believing in people, helping people become their best self. We're going to learn how he believes in other people who believed in him. Before we begin this week, we are lamenting the destruction of the bas. One of the hidden blessings in the destruction of the Ba Mikdash is the power of autonomy. We used to go to the B mikdash to become inspired by God. And now we can't go somewhere to be inspired. We have to create a source of inspiration. Our own source of inspiration. What tishabove had given us fortunately and unfortunately was the power of autonomy was the power of God believing that we can pave the road for a better future. similar to Mosha Rabenu in this week's para paraan not being able to enter the land of Israel not being able to escort the Jewish people and Hashem even telling Moshe stop asking me to go into the promised land Moshe wanted to be with his people and Hashem said give them space let them figure it out let them mess up let them be able to rebuild and let it be theirs because we believe in them enjoy the show thank you for joining us I'm hoping in the next next a little while. You'll inspire me and our guests with permission to believe. Permission to believe in other people. What led you to being able to believe in people? >> There have been many who have believed in me. If we go back to my childhood, I grew up a totally secular Jewish kid in the public school system and landed myself, this is a very short version, in a lot of trouble as a um pretty formidable drug dealer. And I had gotten myself into very deep into the underworld to the point where my life was legitimately in danger of being taken. Uh I had surrounded myself with some very dangerous people and they were not the type to hesitate to employ their dangerousness. Let's put it that way. >> They're not afraid to use it. >> Yeah. Not afraid to use it. So, I had been in and out of different rehab programs and my parents obviously tried to do everything they possibly could to get me out of that lifestyle even though addiction it makes it very difficult for somebody to to leave on account of someone else. Right? They usually people leave addiction when they they themselves have had enough and I hadn't had enough yet. But nonetheless, addict won't stop using drugs or or drinking or whatever they're addicted to just because someone they love wants them to stop. Like that's just not how it works. They'll do it when they themselves have reached the absolute bottom and they're done. That's when they that's when they stop. So despite the fact that there were multiple attempts that were absolutely horrible failures, horrible experiments, many different uh clinical scenarios that my parents tried. They had gone through the gamut of the possibilities, you know, inpatient, outpatient, displaced, that place, high school, go home, long-term, mental hospitals. They tried it all in order to get me to stop using drugs. They did it. They did their very best. And even though I had altered their lives in some ways because of, you know, the different places that I had been and done and things, they never gave up on me. And when when the time came that I was ready to be done, they helped me. They helped extricate extricate me from that world and because they didn't give up, I was able to make it to the other side ultimately. >> Wow. H how did you first realize like when were you first imp like impressed or amazed or inspired by the fact that they didn't give up on you despite trying so many different things and despite the deep pit you had found yourself in? I would say this very moment. I never really thought about it too much to be honest, but it it that is something that occurred to me right now. >> But because they never because they never gave up on me, I was able to make it to the other side. If they had given up, >> I I would probably be dead probably. Or or in jail for serving a lengthy sentence. >> Wow. And and how did they convey their faith in you? I mean, maybe not directly, but somehow you've interpreted that they believe in you. >> What was it? >> Like if as a parent, if I were to replicate that and maybe not the situation of drugs, but I mean I think as parents or anybody listening to this, we want to we want to believe in other people. How would we replicate your parents in terms of your personal experience? So, I was selling a fair amount of uh cocaine and heroin and making quite a bit of money. I had a bodyguard. I had people who were working for me. Amongst them was a guy who was a mafia hitman >> working for you. >> That's Yeah, he was in our crew. >> Okay, got it. So he he found out that my bodyguard, who they were friends growing up, was using heroin. And heroin is an addictive substance that if you don't have it, you go into withdrawals. And if you're in withdrawals, then you're more susceptible to police interrogation. And if you're more susceptible to police interrogation, you're more susceptible to uh, for lack of a better word, snitch. And if you're going to snitch, then that's a big problem. So, this mafia hitman called my mother and told her, "Your son is in danger." He didn't say who he was or what he did, but I knew. And he told her, "Your son is in danger and you need to get him out, and if not, he he's probably going to die." So, my parents gave me an ultimatum. They said, "Either you go with us, we'll help you get out, or you can't come back here because you have a younger sister. You're putting us in danger. This lifestyle is very dangerous, and we can't we can't have that because of your choice." >> How old are you at this time? At this point, >> 19. >> 19. And did you understand the magnitude of how dangerous it was to the degree that your bodyguard and your parents did? Yes. >> Yeah. Okay. >> So, I I thought it over for about 24 hours and I realized that the the other side of this coin if I don't go with them is just not going to be good because already my bodyguard had been um extorting me and uh he stabbed me at one point. I he he he beat me up pretty bad. So I knew that I really I wasn't going to achieve what I thought I wanted to achieve, which was to be the next the the Jewish American Pablo Escobar. It just wasn't it wasn't going to happen. So I I decided to go along with them and they helped me leave at their own peril. We, my mother and I, boarded a train to Manhattan. She helped me get on a Greyhound to go to my uncle's house. Then when I came back, my father found me a rehab facility in uh Florida. And then they they drove me to the airport to get there. They made sure that I was that that I was on top of the treatment program and stuck with me throughout the whole thing. They came to visiting day. They came to they they helped me get an apartment after I had finished my treatment. They even when I started to become religious, which really wasn't, you know, on their bingo card, let's call it, they still stayed with me and and like went along for the journey with me and, you know, came to visit me in in Aritis when I went to Yeshiva and they came to my wedding and they were so happy for me and danced and unbelievable um dedication to the person who they saw that I could be. >> Wow. That is that is beautiful. And and it sounds like you're taking that same perspective and applying it in I mean in your daily interactions, but even on a professional level. Where do you think your parents got the strength to to see that in you despite I mean a hitman trying to not a hitman, a bodyguard stabbing you? I mean, this is a deep you were in a deep mess. >> And they didn't get intimidated by the mess. They saw something more pure than that that was worth saving. >> Yeah. >> How did they not get like distracted >> by the I I don't have to say distracted, intimidated by by the challenge and and and get to see the real you or at least the potential you. I think that what I'm about to say is a really important point in the general in the generality of the concept of believing in someone and that is I think that they tapped into a place of unconditional love. If their love for me had been conditioned on whether or not I was a good boy or if I went to law school, if I did all the good stuff, if I then, you know, you see this kid who fell so far off the path that clearly there's something wrong here and you know, okay, so we have he has a sister, we'll just invest in her instead and let him run the course and whatever happens will happen and you know, sorry, that's conditional love. But unconditional love is h not not having anything to do with performance or hitting goals or living up to expectations or any of that. They tapped into that place within themselves. And I think that in the story of the the the the the man, the husband and wife, he tapped into his unconditional love for himself that allowed it to kind of overflow to all the people around him, which is what made him successful at it because he didn't start conditioning his love on, you know, his wife's approval or this one's approval or, you know, whatever, whatever, whatever. It was it was self-based. And if your self based love is not dependent on externalities then it's just it's just like like pulling a diamond out of the rough and polishing it. >> Wow. And how would you inspire somebody um let's say our listeners let's say going back to the client you had had or in the context of your parents working with you how could somebody inspire somebody else with unconditional love or themselves with unconditional love when we are so tied to conditions. We're so I >> I mean this this client came in with something very heavy >> and it it's hard to it it can almost sound like and and I think people are terrified of this. People are terrified of toxic positivity and they'll you know it's almost like don't worry about that burden. There's something deeper there that could create resistance. How do you create unconditional love um without, you know, realizing conditions are still important? It's still important that you get off of drugs. It's still important that he somehow lightens up that load. Yeah. So, I think that that's part of the misconception I would say about um about the way in which about I guess the best way that we could live, right? Some people imagine that if you take away the conditions then the status quo will just be to do nothing right like if you say okay so I'll love you even if you're not successful means that the the receiver of that love even if this is yourself will will interpret it as okay I don't have to do anything I'm just free to do nothing but that's that is a I mind a a a false binary comparison because we as people have an innate desire to reach greatness. Everybody wants to reach greatness within themselves a and see themselves as great in the world. people, I guess, lose faith in that over time, but it's a it's a strong desire within every single person. So, why would you con why would you condition love on whether or not your greatness is revealed in the world or not? It doesn't seem like the proper fuel to really spark this um rocket ship from taking off is you know only only if you do XYZ are you lovable and and then the false binary that if I tell you no actually you're lovable without doing XYZ so you'll just stay uh on the ground you won't ever want to do liftoff >> nonsense absolute nonsense everyone wants to do liftoff. >> So, how would you redefine unconditional love? Unconditional love isn't just let them be type of thing. Um, that's what I'm hearing. So, so what is unconditional love? >> Well, I would say seeing the potential in somebody and encouraging them to reach their own potential is just as important as loving them without conditions is. >> I see. In other words, as much as I can love you or whoever it is, I have to love who they could be. >> Yes. >> Wow. And and I think I guess in in just this might just be a language thing, but that's believing in people. It's not just loving them. Linguistically, loving people implies whoever you are, however you are, wherever you are, I love you. Which is important. And and I guess that's where empathy comes from as well. But then there's also I know there's something more and I know you want it and I know we can align the two somehow. >> Yeah. 100%. >> Wow. I love it. >> If I if I love somebody so much, of course I want to see them succeed to the best of their capability. Absolutely. I believe that they can. And because because somebody believes in them, who who knows where the where the limits are? >> Wow. So h how would our listeners go about expanding those limits? I mean we we generally it's the human condition. We impose limitations on ourselves. We impose limitations on others. How do we how do we broaden our our view of people so we could believe in them? Um, if I may interject, I I I in some ways the, you know, the homeless guy on the street who's kind of being a nuisance on everybody. Okay, I'm not going to judge. I don't know the guy. I don't have to live next door to him. He's not my roommate. He's not my spouse. I don't do business with him at that particular moment. It's inconvenient. Okay, I can >> but I think this is a very uh poant question when it comes to people that are closest to us and I'm I'm curious what advice you might have to help us and our listeners expand our limits of being able to believe in anybody. your question is predicated on something that I I don't necessarily believe in. So I I'm going to um address that first and then get to the second part. And that is that you might not have intended it for to come across this way, but this is what I'm what I hear, which is the way that we uh see things and see people and view the construct of limitations in general is some kind of self-governance that is impossible to remove [Music] and I challenge that thought with a question. Why do you need limitations at all? What purpose are the limitations actually serving? >> I I think that's beautiful. But how do you practically uh leap beyond them? But again, >> you're saying who says they're there question >> is that what you're saying? >> The question that you're you're implying that that just because I believe that something is has this limitation. Let's say I look at my son, he's short for his age. So I could look at him and say, you know what, he doesn't really want this. But let's just say for a second he did. When I was a kid, I did. I was a short kid and I wanted to be in the NBA. So, there's two ways you could look at it. You could say, "Okay, well, you know, uh, Yenko, if you want to be in the NBA, like there's only been one player who was like 5 foot one in the whole history of the NBA for the last 75 years. You're probably not going to make it to the NBA." That's that is a way of thinking, >> right? But there is another way of thinking which is who says you can't make it to the NBA. Why why do you have to insist on there being a limitation to begin with? >> Let's take a step back for a second. If you could just tell us what you do. >> Sure. So I am a life and business coach and I coach men usually uh from or from adjacent men to becoming the very best version of themselves, revealing their essence, getting to the core of who they really are. And through doing that, uh, usually that has a ripple effect on the rest of their lives, whether that be in their personal relationships, whether that be in their business, any real area that you can quantify is affected by how the how a person decides that they're going to show up to life and who they want to be. And I help people to reveal the the the gold, the diamonds that's underneath the surface that maybe they've hidden for years for whatever reason. And I just really I love being a digger. >> Oh, I love that. That that resonates deeply. I'm a marriage counselor and I feel like in many ways I I do the same. I help couples discover the best version of their relationship and somewhere buried in all the, you know, all all the baggage they're coming in with, there's something there that that brought them there. Um, besides the problem, but there's some sort of desire that brought them there and uncovering that. And it sounds like you do that in the business world as well. How did you get into that? So, I got into it because I was myself uh kind of stuck in a business that I was in. I I um I used to be a a cipher, a scribe. And the the problem with the scribing, I guess you could call it the problem quote unquote, is that uh Ezra Cafer uh you know made a gazer that Crim shouldn't be particularly uh wealthy for whatever reason he decided. And I had also felt like scribe scribehood I guess you could call it is um a very solitary field really. the less talking you do, the better it is uh for a safer particularly when they're actually working. And I felt that I had a lot more to offer I to the world and more light to give than just being a scribe in the corner. And my soul had a real yearning for that. And it happened to be around that time a friend of mine offered me a coaching conversation. I had no idea what it was. I thought it was similar to therapy. and I took him up on the offer after a few months and he blew my mind and I I wanted to do the same for other people. >> Very interesting. What type of people come to see you? >> It's hard to pinpoint an exact type of person, but it's usually somebody who knows that there's more for them, but at the same time doesn't know how to get there. And that could be in business or that could be, you know, in their personal relationships, in their marriage. It depends. I wouldn't say it's quite uniform. You have people that you mentioned when you were describing to me what you had done or what you do that you help people discover their value, discover the hidden gems. And you said sometimes it's been buried for years. And I hate to be one of those guys who are nitpicking at your words, but I'm going to be that guy. Um, I find that to be fascinating. Somebody's frustrated. They've been doing something that has been counterproductive. Maybe they have counterproductive behaviors, counterproductive perspectives or attitudes for years, like literally years. And somehow you still believe that that hidden gem is there >> when they don't even believe it. Um, can you tell me about that? >> Uh, can I is it okay if I tell you with a story >> please? >> Okay, cool. So, so in the mid 1800s there was a Jewish family living in Russia and they had very little obviously in the in means of of physical possessions, but they did have this this chest that they kept in the family. And inside of this chest was the kubis, the um correspondence between uh family members that were very important, any awards that anybody had ever won or done anything good and gold and silver and diamonds, everything was kept inside of this chest. And after in the in the early 1900s or so, the Kazaks were coming to town. So they had to hide this chest and they buried it underneath their house. And unfortunately, they really weren't ever able to go back and get it. So over time, there were different people who lived in that house. And at some point somebody excavated this chest and by now it was all rusted over and clo it wasn't able to really be open and it was used for alternative purposes. It was used for uh a lampstand. It was used for a work desk. It was used for a bench. All kinds of other alternative things that it was really meant for. And then at some point 150 years later, more recently, somebody realized that, hey, you know, this there could be something inside here. And so they smashed open the chest and revealed inside all of the hidden gems that were inside of this chest. And so what I propose is that we have been doing a sort the same exact process with ourselves. We are born with this beautiful treasure chest that really shines through. And then over time because of perceived dangers, let's call it, we we have to start hiding the chest. And we have no choice but to hide the chest until we remember that this chest is not actually a bench or something else. It's it's actually holding our our hidden treasures. So that that's what I mean by years sometimes because from the time that a person is a child and they learn that if they be who they really are, it might be dangerous. It might cause somebody else to make fun of them or whatever it may be. So, so they bury it and bury and bury and bury and eventually you either forget that the chest is a chest or you realize that it is and you open it up and all of a sudden now you're 35 years old and you get to reveal who you really are. >> Wow. I I love that because we often associate vulnerability with like the internal skeletons and the negativity within ourselves and being vulnerable means facing the inner demons. And what you're saying, which is something I I try very much to incorporate in my work with couples, is that the beauty that's hidden deep inside, discovering that and having the courage to face that itself is a level of vulnerability. Vulnerability can be a comfortable thing, a positive thing, a motivating thing. >> Yeah, for sure. >> I love that. I love that. Yeah. C um can you take us to a story of somebody who >> I guess fits this narrative. I'm sure you have a lot of them of somebody who did not realize how, you know, they thought they were just a piece of furniture. They didn't realize there was something deep buried within maybe for many years. and you inspired them to to to explore it, to discover it. >> Yeah, I actually have a great one in mind that's really perfect, I think, for you in in in the context of what you do. So, I had a I had a client who was married to um he was married to a woman who had a unfortunately she had a personality disorder and he had tried every which way in which to get her to seek help and therapy and you know specialized treatment for this particular um personality disorder. And nothing helped. And the house was at times extremely extremely chaotic. He was feeling very judgmental of her, of himself. How could he get himself into this situation? And the situation just kept um disintegrating over time to the point where they were ready to break up a you know decentsized family because it just was not getting any better. And then when he dec when he started to discover who he really was, what happened was he was able to shift when she was in like crisis mode. He was able to shift from going down the rabbit hole with her to being just 100% who he is and who he's meant to be. And because of that shift, she started to notice that he was shifting way too much to the good and she wanted to shift along with him because all of a sudden he was like leaps and bounds ahead of her and he stopped judging her. He started empathizing with her and she started to shift towards where he was. And now today because of the fact that that I worked with him, because of the fact that he believed in her, their family is in the best shape it's been since the day that they got married. >> Wow, that's beautiful. It It reminds me of a famous principal. He lectures to a lot of school principles and he used to say that a school is like a bus with like a Flintstones car bus you know where you um you run there's no wheels right so he says you want the strongest >> motor >> yeah no motor and no wheels you got to run with it and he he used to say put the strongest teachers in in operating a school put the strongest teachers in the front because they're going to pull everybody behind them >> right >> right kind of like um leaders like Dave Ramsey says leaders is pole, not they don't push. Um I I think it's fascinating how you were able to even take the client on to believe in him. Not not no disrespect to the client. I'm saying this as a praise to you. Um because I feel like a lot of people would say this is something out of my scope and they would have gotten intimidated by, you know, a personality disorder and something I'm not equipped to deal with. But you still had the strength, the internal strength to confidently uh believe in him. When you started believing in him, what did he start seeing in himself? You know, you said he discovered something. What was it that he had discovered? >> He had discovered that he he didn't need to be dependent on his wife for his own validation of who he was. So when once once he realized that actually this is not a relationship that's like two circles interlocking. It's more like two circles standing next to each other that are complimenting each other that he was able to make that switch when when I started to believe in this client. He started to believe in his own ability to be a whole in a in a complimentary pair rather than an intersecting of two circles where they're kind of interdependent on each other. Because up until this point, he was placing his own selfworth, self-belief in his wife's happiness. But for him, unfortunately, that was almost like a fool's errand because it was impossible to keep her happy. I mean, not not really to all her own fault, just she had a personality disorder. So, naturally, she wasn't she wasn't happy as a you know, general rule. And because of that, he couldn't possibly make that connection and still be a healthy human. It just was not going to work. That's interesting. It sounds like also prior to this he was trying to be a recipient of his wife to be a Macabel and putting her as putting her in charge of the happiness and he also took a mashpia role a an influencer role and allowed her to reflect him as opposed to him reflecting her which and empowered him to reflect her in a deeper way in a bigger in a in a you know a better side of her. It sounds like >> which is a very very Very cool. What would you say was the first thing he saw in himself that he didn't first notice? And and I know I'm asking you to go in his mind, but whatever, you know, but what what would you say is the first thing he started to see in himself that he didn't notice prior when you started believing in himself? Like if you were to put it in a couple of words, I would say he he saw how how great he really was. And and that's not just outside of the marriage in this context, but also inside of the marriage. Like a lot of people don't make it to where he had gotten to where you have, you know, multiple years and multiple children and are still a relatively productive member of society. Like most people just don't get there. they'll either, you know, get divorced or or they'll just shut down entirely and, you know, that compounds the problem. So, the fact that he had gotten to that level was really pretty astonishing and I think he started to notice how how much he had the capacity to to hold space for someone else. >> So, so this guy comes in with a very heavy load. I mean, heavy baggage, >> but somehow you were able to see not the baggage. I mean, you saw the baggage. I'm not saying you dismissed it, but you were able to see not just the baggage, but the person carrying the baggage. And you were amazed by your client essentially, which helped him be amazed by himself. Um, if I'm putting too many words in your mouth, you'll stop me. But who told you you can do that? I I I love that. But who told you you could do that? How did you know you? That's not something most people do. Mo most people try to well let's figure out what this baggage is. Let's start opening it up and then it like you know makes a mess. >> Yeah. So I I I really I take inspiration from um one of my favorite hays which is the bash says is called an erit kaf and that means a cherished land and just like the scientists don't know beas in the physical world how much treasures there are hidden underneath the surface so too in the spiritual world we don't know how amazing every Jew is underneath and really it just depends on the amount of digging and the digger to find the treasures. So I I really try to believe that about every single person who walks into my office and is seeking out my help in one way or another that there's there is some brilliance, some magnificent, some gold, some diamonds here. Let's find them. And it it sounds like that beauty, that gold, the diamonds, the treasure there isn't just spiritual. Maybe it originates spiritually, but it sounds like you're saying it's even psychologically beautiful. It's beautiful. It it makes its way in the business world. It makes its way into productivity. Somehow it kind of seeps into everything. Is that's what I'm hearing here. >> 100%. Because absolutely I'll tell you how. Imagine that. That same guy, okay, the guy we were talking about before, if he doesn't recognize his own brilliance, so he walks around all day believing almost believing what his wife tells him about himself, you know, you are this, you are that. And when he shows up to work, how is he going to show up? What is the way in which he's going to show up even to his friends or his other family? How is he going to show up if this is the thought pattern that's in his mind? is is you know you're basically you're the worst person that ever walked the earth. But once you start to realize that actually you're amazing. Now now if you're walking around with that mind frame, how are you how is that going to affect the way you walk into work, the way you produce, the way you talk to people, the way you have a relationship with everyone? It reminds me of a story I had read where a young group of college students had visited and they had some sort of like Q&A with the Reb and one of them asked what is the purpose of a reb? What is the I mean what's Jewish leadership? Real Jewish leadership and the Reb told them that a a Reb is like an archaeologist. Anybody knows how to dig, but an archaeologist knows where to dig. And if you dig without knowing where, you come up with dirt. And if you know where to dig, you come up with with with beauty, with artifacts, with ancient old artifacts that are timeless, that are incredibly valuable. And then the Reb added that Freud didn't know where to dig and used to come up with dirt in people. >> And that Adler, all these nice Jewish boy chicks, right? They didn't know where to dig because they would dig into people and come up with dirt. They wouldn't come up with value. and and the job of real Jewish leadership. And I think that's something the the Reb would empower everybody to do is to look into another person and see that beauty, see that value. Um what is something you do to I you said you had to like have you have to have that stance before they even come into your office, which kind of makes sense. I mean they're coming in. There's a part that I had read from the it says in the is judge every person favorably and he says if you look at the words it's it doesn't say every person it says the whole person look at the whole person because people show us their baggage that's what we see and there's the person lifting the baggage there's a person behind there and you're saying you have to have that stance before they come in are there things you do to like get yourself in that case to get that stance. >> Yeah, to be honest, there is um I really try hard to practice living a life of as little judgment as I possibly can. So that that means I have to really um be very on guard I guess I would call it not not in a bad way but in a good way of what thoughts I am allowing to penetrate into my mind and if a thought comes up that I don't want to entertain. Let's say I'm walking down the street and I see, you know, um, in Crown Heights there's no like sometimes you'll see people who are acting very erratically and really they don't belong here and they they're street dwellers more or less and you start going into judgment mode very easily about you know this is not like something is wrong here with like why are they here? Why are we allowing this? Why are we entertaining this? And I have I catch I try very hard to catch myself from going to from allowing those judgments to come in because if I am judging somebody that I don't know people that walk into me and tell me you know their real secrets and all the things that that uh that's wrong with them. So let because I'm I I try to live that way, I think that comes across in my conversations with people and I just try not to judge them and I try to live that way even outside of the sessions because otherwise it would be really hard to just selectively pick and choose where am I where am I judging, where am I not. >> So I just it's better to just not judge at all. >> Yeah. It's like um I'm off the clock. I could start jud judging again, you know. >> Yeah, exactly. >> When you're not judging somebody, what are you doing instead? holding the possibility for whatever whatever they could achieve or empathy let's say for the guy outside curiosity because it's really it it's almost impossible for those two things to exist in the same place at the same time judgment or and curiosity or judgment and empathy >> right jud judgment curiosity saying can't coexist >> no ribbenko thank you so much for being a part of Thank you so much for your insight.