Women at the Shabbos Table: Practical Halachos of Kiddush, Lechem Mishna, Zemiros and Zimun

okay good evening to all thank you so much for being here and uh as always our learning should be standing greyjoy through the wonderful major shot dedicated in her memory and in her honor for all of the wonderful work she did and the impression uh that she left on all of us okay tonight we're going to continue in the halacha uh series theme and we're going to explore the role of a woman at the shabbos table now i thought about titling at that and then i thought much better of it because i value my life the topic is not the role of a woman at the shabbos table from any hashikofi standpoint or from any uh standpoint of trying to prescribe to him in their role what i want to address is from a halachic perspective a halachic analysis of the place of a woman or the halals that pertain to a woman at the shabbos table and we're going to try to cover four distinct areas of we'll see if we have time to get to all four tonight and that is the halakhas of kirish what are the obligations of a woman to hear kirish opportunities to recite kirish what are the others at the table regarding kirish the second is the obligation of making hamilton a double portion as a woman navigated in la mishna mashi be at the table when the bracha is recited on the left the third area is miros a woman being able to participate or sing ins miros not if it's a table full of women that's a very short discussion but if they're a table with others and finally the question of siemen not a detailed or comprehensive analysis of the issue of women and siemen which is a topic we've discussed before and worthy of exploring but more specifically again a woman's general obligation in siemen with particular um particular attention to being at the table when the simon is being recited it's not to suggest that a woman is is or should be more likely to not be at the table during these parts of a man should also be participating in the serving and cleaning and preparing and so on and so forth but in some homes sometimes it's taken for granted that for the woman there's a little more flexibility or leeway and therefore she might less be less likely to be present and we'll explore whether that in fact is a mistake whether halal she should be present because these apply equally and are incumbent upon her equally as they are to a man so let's begin let's get started with the question of kirish and i invite you whether you're listening on the zoom or one of the other platforms youtube or or uh facebook if you have any questions comments that you want clarification feel free to share throughout let's start with kiddush tells us that there is a obligation to recite kirish immediately when shabbos begins we are makadesh we sanctify shabbos there are two ways that shabbos is sanctified passively it's sanctified when the sun sets when three stars are visible then shabbos has begun ready or not here it comes whether you're ready shabbos descends upon us whether we accept it and whether we are ready for it but there's a second way we contribute to shabbos and that is when we sanctify shabbos when we are makadesh and we are makadeshabas we sanctify shabbos by saying kiddush by reciting the kirish the gemara learns this from the passage of liquor liquor means that remember shabbos to sanctify it we sanctify it from the time that the first type of shabbos the passive when shabbos descends upon us when that kicks in from they get there begins or launches the obligation for us to recite kiddish and based on this the shuffling of paskins the shift records that when returning home from shul or if having never gone to shul uh as soon as possible after davening the friday night davening one should recite kiddush parenthetically this is one of my major pet peeves and hang ups and it's not just a um it's not just a hang up because of my appetite or hunger it's a hang up holagically one should begin shabbos one should rather recite kiddush as soon as possible to come home from shul or to finish davening and sit on a couch and schmooze or to greet one another to catch up on the whole week and not begin the meal is a mistake we should be makadish the day as close as possible to when the day was miss kadesh on us when shabbos began from that day my second pet peeve is after you make kiddush gowash and this too is a halachic pet peeve one is supposed to make kirish uda kira should be associated with and recited as part of the as part of the meal and therefore to make kiddish and then stand around and schmooze is also a mistake one should not introduce a break or any kind of delay but rather recite kiddish as soon as possible and after kiddush go and wash and continue with the meal as soon as possible and please god we will soon return to normal days when we can eat meals in one another's homes and have so much we'll have a year to catch up on together we have the whole meal to catch up together but the catching up should not happen before kiddush or between kiddush and the meal those should happen uh expeditiously efficiently and then during the meal you have all the time in the world to speak and that's not just my personal hang up that is a halal consideration and a halachic hang up as well this obligation of kirish dhaka simasha was the code show that we are makadesh today uh we make bookends we recite kiddush at the beginning to distinguish between the weekday and shabbos and we have a book ahead at the end called allah that distinguishes between shabbos and the weekday let's start with kiddish this obligation of kiddish what is the nature of this obligation to the ramapaskans that kirisha's there is a biblical commandment to sanctify the shabbos day how does one fulfill that biblical commandment with words when we recite the davening we recite the words of kiddush not necessarily on a coast not necessarily on a cup of wine or grape juice or on chala for that matter but simply reciting the words if we verbalize and articulate the distinction the difference between shabbos and the day that comes before it and after it then we have a full kiddish to recite kiddush on a cup of wine or grape juice or if you don't have it on khala that is that is a that is a rabbinic commandment so there's a biblical obligation to recite kiddush now generally speaking is kirish a time-bound mitzvah or not a time-bound mitzvah the answer is obvious kiddush is clearly a time down mitzvah you recite kiddush on shabbos you don't recite kids friday and you don't recite kiddush on saturday night you recite kiddish on shabbos it is the very definition or the very example of a time-bound mitzvah we generally know that women are exempt from time bandwidths one are exempt from instances we've explored this topic as well previously and can explore again why that is hashem doesn't want if a woman who may have either in antiquity or today or still tomorrow a primary responsibility to her children to her home hashem says i never want you to be conflicted between the sun setting and you have to dive in menha and your crying child who needs to be fed dinner or homework or other responsibilities or obligations which not to suggest that men don't share in those responsibilities but in the allocation of rules hashem says i will recuse i will withdraw your obligations towards me so that you never have to feel attention or a conflict it's actually brought down in some sources so why doesn't a single woman or why doesn't a woman with no children have an obligation and time balance or is that the reason and i saw one answer because can you imagine if a woman will at one time be obligated in time-bound mitzvos and then by getting married or by having children she will exempt herself maybe she'll delay maybe she won't be interested maybe she'll be more eager to remain in a position of being obligated in those mitzvos again hashem says the choice between the two i'm out i don't want you to have that tension i don't want you to have that conflict i don't want you to have that choice so generally speaking we have a principle that women are exempt from mrs asman grama they're exempt from time-bound mitzvos based on a gemara in brachas so the question is what about kirish kiddush we just said is a time-bound mitzvah the time of kiddush is on friday night that's the biblical obligation of kirish kirishaba's day is what we call kidusa rabbah kirshabastai is a sort of imitation of kiddish kidusa rabbah is a euphemism the great the grand kiddish really is a euphemism because it's not much of a kiddush at all if you think about it what's the whole kiddush on shabba's day bori priya gophen that's it how is that different than when you want to have a glass of wine on a monday night it's not it's a beer it's a broccoli you say before a cup of wine or a cup of grape juice it's just that we say it before we make a mozi so that shabbos lunch is clearly shabbos lunch if you didn't do that if you washed and you made our mozzie and then you had a cup of wine during the meal and made a burrito what would distinguish shabbos lunch from sunday monday tuesday wednesday thursday friday lunch it would look like any other lunch in order to make it look like a different lunch we make the boripera guffin before the hamut said we do it out of order that is a rabbinic commandment a rabbinic fulfillment the kiddush on shabbos day what we call kidusa rabbah the real kiddush the grand kiddish the kiddush that's referenced from the passage that we derived from the verse is on friday night so again even though generally speaking women are exempt from time bound mitzvos when it comes to kiddush women are obligated and where does that obligation come from tells us because the mitzvah of shabbos appears many times in the torah but as part of the ten commandments the decalogue it appears in two places in pasha's israel and in parties and we have an important difference an important distinguished distinction between the two places where it appears once it says zachar is your mashable show and the other time it says shamu is the god show that's why it's able to begin it was said simultaneously which one did god utter it appears twice in the torah and we have two different versions of what was said but it only happened historically once so which one did god say did he say zahur did he say shamur and the answer is yes he said both zach we don't have that ability we are unable to pronounce two different things simultaneously then it will be gerbil it'll be it'll be uh all jumbled but hashem has that unique ability they were said to take together so the gemara there derives the following the gemara there says anyone who's obligated in the shamur if you're obligated in the negative commandments of shabbos if you're obligated to rest from the 39 categories of creative labor you're obligated to make shabazz different by not doing malacca's machiaves by not engaging in creative labor by being at rest and at peace with nature with the world around us whomever is obligated in shamur in the negative part of shabbos is equally obligated in zachor the positive so since women are included in the prohibition of shamur women too are bound by the 39 categories of creative labor they can't do malachi and chabas therefore they too are included in the positive of zakhor of reciting kiddush what is the nature of a woman's obligation a men are obligated in kiddush we said der isa biblically from the apostles remember the shabbos day to sanctify it what about women so the mission board is clear is clear mr number is clear that women share a mitzvah de arisa that the gemara's limu that which the gemara learned to say whoever is obligated in the negative is equally obligated in the positive means that positive obligation is biblical de arisa on the same level as men and based on this diminished guru says that since a woman carries the same obligation as a man technically speaking she could recite kiddush too she could be mozi the man she could say kirishan fulfilled kiddush for the man however the mishna brewer does add that a woman should only be mutsy men who are bene basa in her home that this is considered at least traditionally a role in responsibility of the man and if a man would need to depend on the woman to say kiddush for him which might suggest that he's illiterate or he's incapable then that would reflect poorly on him so the custom is for men to say kittish but strictly speaking there'd be nothing wrong with a woman saying kiddush and being mozi men and in a situation where a woman doesn't uh is not have a man to be mozi her a woman who lives alone a woman whose husband is out of town a woman who's not married certainly there's nothing wrong with her reciting kiddush for herself she has a biblical commandment and she can be you'd say that kiddish now we come upon a technical problem which is when the man is in shul he's already said kiddish how has he said kiddush when he's in shul because in shul we say the paragraph of as part of davoning it's familiar to us as the first paragraph of kiddush is actually part of the dhavaning itself that means that the man by the time he comes home from shul has fulfilled the biblical obligation to remember the day all that's left is the rabbinic obligation to do so on a cup of wine to give the meal distinction to give the meal great dignity to elevate the meal by making a blessing on the wine before the hamotzi the biblical obligation was fulfilled in shul what's left is the rabbinic obligation for one second what what about if he's married and his wife is at the table and let's assume she didn't avenmar she didn't say vayahulu so she maintains a biblical obligation how can someone is obligated rabbinically the man who recited kittish and shul when he said vayahulu how can he be mozi how can he fulfill the biblic obligation of the woman this is an age-old question it's brought up by the birhalaka and it is discussed by the premier god and the priebu goddamn says we have a principle called arvus that uh israel we're all responsible one for another that means that even somebody who already fulfilled a biblical obligation can be mozi somebody who has not so for example someone who has heard the megillah can read the magilla and say a brock on it for someone who hasn't heard it someone who's heard the chauffeur can blow the chauffeur and make a bra on it for somebody who hasn't heard it almighty arvis the idea that if there's a jew in my circle in my surrounding who has not yet uh been yottse a mitzvah then i haven't been yote a mitzvah in other words yes i fulfilled the mitzvah but if there's a jew for whom i can help fulfill the mitzvah then there's a piece of me that has not fulfilled the mitzvah so that principle of aravas of ko is the premier garden suggests that's what's at work that the man true he was already yod say the rice and shul when he said vayahulu when he comes home to find a woman or children over barbara mitzvah who are obligated still do rise uh he can fulfill that medin arvas he can be mostly the medin arvis but there's another answer and another explanation based on rubiki vigger the bikiva egger and this is quoted by the mughan of ram the kiva eggers of the following opinion how are you yota this mitsuda rise of kiddush we said that biblically speaking you're obligated to recite kiddush how is one fulfill that biblical obligation to recite kirish again on a cup is there a banana to articulate it to recite it with words that is what is the arisa what do you have to say in order to fulfill the de arisa obligation of kirish to make the day different than every other day do you have to say the words to hello you have to say the words to yamashishi do you have to say what do you have to say surrender says you know what you can say to fulfill kirish to arisa biblically speaking good shabbos if you turn to someone else if you even just say out loud oh good shabbos should be a geshmakashabas a good shabbos shabbat shalom however you want to say it but if you acknowledge today is shabbos says you've been you'd say kiddish to fulfill the biblical commandment you don't have to recite a text you don't have to recite some ritual liturgy but simply saying the words good shabbos announcing out loud that this day is different than others is how you fulfill the mitzvah de arisa which has several significant um applications number one for a man too you fulfill uh kiddish when you say good shabbos they're those opinions by the way let's say you're walking to shulman you say good job to someone else even though you're not yet ready to accept shabbos some suggest you might have just accepted shabbos and you can't have mencha anymore however we don't really follow that opinion because clearly in that context you don't mean to sanctify shabbos you haven't even been down the middle you haven't taken the keys out of your pocket yet however it is significant because it means that if you have a neighbor who's not religious who's not going to be saying kiddush but you get them to answer you geshabas you help them fulfill a biblical commandment they have fulfilled the mitsudo rights of kiddush it also means that if a husband walks through the door and his wife and he are hopefully speaking and they greet and wish one another a good shabbos now they're both on the same level playing field it all depends on what the era of shabbos was like but hopefully now they've greeted each other all is forgiven they lit candles show them bias the malachi scored them home the malacca are happy with what they see and they wish one another to get shabbos so now if a woman if the wife has said good shabbos she has fulfilled the biblical commandment too now they're on an equal playing field and that one can be you'd say the other the last thing in this area and then we'll move on of kiddish is another fascinating practical application when it comes to a child and this might be somewhat counterintuitive who should be yotsei the mitzvah for whom when there is a child so let's say a father is out of town he is on a business trip he's unavailable you have a single mom who's living with her kids and now she has a bar mitzvah child so first of all if her children are all under bar mitzvah should her 11 12 year old son fulfill kiddush for her no clearly not she's obligated biblically he's only obligated rabbinically he's not yet bar mitzvah she should be the one to recite kittish what about after his bar mitzvah he's turned 13 and now dad's out of town or dad's out of the picture should the bar mitzvah boys say kiddush consistently for the mom or should the mom say kiddish so the mriburu says the following he says very interesting a bar mitzvah boy in order to become the age of mitzvos you need two things shana simonen you need to reach the age of majority you need to reach 13 years for a boy 12 years for a girl and you also need what we call simone you need the signs of puberty the signs that you've reached the age of of uh of uh maturity so a 13 year old boy how do we know how do we know that in fact he's bar mitzvah his mother can produce his birth certificate to tell us he's reached the shannon the years but how do we know that he's reached the the uh simon so the answer is we don't we rely on a kazakh we have a principle that we assume that most 13 year old boys and most 12 year old girls not only have reached the age of majority but we assume they also show the signs of the age of majority and we rely on that but that hazaka that which we rely on that assumption is that assumption allow us to rely on that biblically or rabbinically when does that come up several cases what if a bar mitzvah boy is reading pasha's when a bar mitzvah boy is reading any other parsha so torah reading on shabbas is rabbinica ezra the prophet ezra moshe established monday thursday in shabbos we don't go three days excuse me without reading torah however one parasha we read is not rabbinic is biblical and that is parshas zachar the commandment to remember what amalek did to us so we follow the opinion that a bar mitzvah boy should not read pasha zacher the end of kisete on the shabbos before purim why because unless that bar mitzvah boy is already shaving unless that bar mitzvah boy already very visibly and clearly we can confirm has not only the years of majority but the signs of majority then that bar mitzvah boy should not be you'd say other people mostly other people in a biblical commandment says the mishnah the same is true when it comes to kiddush and the mothers obligated to raisa and this bar mitzvah boy not under bar mitzvah even a bar mitzvah boy assuming his mustache has not yet come in this bar mitzvah boy um is only uh we're working off the assumption that he has reached the age and the signs of maturity and therefore in a conflict between the two the mother should make the kiddush not even this newly minted bar mitzvah boy the last comment i'll make on kiddish in terms of a woman's obligation or responsibility so far we saw a biblical obligation in kiddush women are equally obligated technically a woman could be mozi men the custom traditionally is that men are the ones who fulfill kurdish but if no man is available or proficient or around certainly a woman can say kiddush for herself and for others and it's preferable for her to say it over a minor she's obligated biblically they rabbinically and even over a newly minted bar mitzvah boy preferable for the woman to make kiddish she's obligated to arisa and the case of the bar mitzvah relying on an only obligated how do you overcome this notion that when the husband comes home he's only obligated she's still doraisa one of two ways either midnight of us it's working that one can fulfill the other or if she has said good shabbos to somebody she too has fulfilled the biblical kamehameha biblical obligation of uh kirish and now they're on an equal playing field the last comment i'll make is that it's very important this is something people neglect they don't necessarily know it's very important that whoever is reciting kiddish and is assumed to be mostly others there should be that communication either implicit or explicit that the one being mikadesh the one saying kirish says i am helping fulfill for all those who are present and those who are present say please have you in mind i would like to be you'd say with you in order for it to work the one reciting kiddush has to have in mind the listeners and the listeners have to have in mind to beyonce with the one who is saying it so it's very very important you know sometimes in some homes you know a woman might still be in the kitchen plating the first course and her husband is starting kiddush he's given up he's out of time he's lost his patience so she says start without me i'll be there in a second and she misses the beginning of kiddush that is a no-no for lots of reasons but also because she is equally obligated and kiddish kiddish out of respect certainly but out of halacha also should not begin until all are present and that is the role of a woman in terms of obligation and kiddush even though it's my grandma it's an exception to the rule those who are obligated in shamur those who are obligated in the 39 categories of creative labor are also obligated in shamur in the positive commandment of kirish okay all of that is number one a lasting what about eating before kiddush your husband is taking forever to come home from shul he's the rabbi and everybody says good shabbos and he catches up and schmoozes with every congregant and it's taking forever to come home and you are dying of thirst can you taste something can you drink something before hearing kiddush and the answer is no there's one exception which is if you've accepted early shabbos and it's still before shikiya then some will say that you can take a drink if you're particularly parched but if it's after sheqia if it's after the time that shabbos has fallen upon us even if we haven't accepted it it has accepted us once shikia once sunset arrives then you're not allowed to eat or drink before reciting kirish and even a cup of water would fall into that and i'm not talking about somebody is so parched and so thirsty that it's life-threatening or dangerous just talking about somebody says i'm really thirsty i could use some water you're not allowed to eat or drink before hearing kiddush okay let's move over to the second area and the second area is the question of lecha mishna is a woman obligated in la mishna many women are the ones who provide or bake and bake so beautifully and wonderfully delicious khalas but are they obligated themselves in ishmael what does that mean to be obligated in le misha how do you fulfill that we're even talking about what it means to be obligated in it so the torah tells us that in the midbar in the desert there were two portions of man that fell from heaven we know that in our journey through the desert we uh the bread miraculously didn't grow from the ground but rather the mana the man fell from heaven the torah tells us that on friday a double portion fell because it didn't fall in shabbos on friday a double portion fell enough for friday and four shabbos in the gemara showers that could be dynamic based learns from here the obligation to take la mishna and chavez that just like the double portion fell in the desert we commemorate that double portion falling by engaging a double portion on shabbos bread mishna double a double portion of bread at the meal so the question is what is the nature of this isla mishna is having a double portion of bread two whole loaves right we don't just have a slice of bread you don't have one pita or one lachmania or one khala we have two what is the nature of that obligation table mishna so the magana of aram gambino says it's a mitzvah durabonham it's been a commandment the pasiksanas really it's true this happened in the desert and we rabbinically want to commemorate the miracle in the desert of the mun falling and therefore on shabbos just like the double portion fell on friday we engage a double portion on it is a biblical commandment it is a biblical commandment what is the nature of this commandment so the gemara says the word both say is unclear exactly what it means does the word botsaya mean to make the bracha on two loaves or does it mean to cut into two loaves so rash is of the opinion that both means you make a bracha on the two but then you cut one so friday night you have two loaves you make a bracha on two and then you cut one you can save the other loaf for the next day lunch you have two you make a bracha on two you cut one you save it um if you want for shallow sugars so rashi says the notion of being um of uh of uh the way we fulfill of uh botsayah both say it doesn't mean they have to cut into it but it means that you make the that's the opinion of rashi which khala do you cut if you only cut one so our custom is friday night we cut the bottom challah shabbos day we cut the top challah we put one color on top of the other and we cover it with the tablecloth with the chala cover rather not for tonight it's a whole great discussion we have several reasons why we have the custom of covering the khala with lots of enough to mean it's practical differences between those reasons but the proper thing is that we put one on top of the other the bottom khala's sticking out closer to us so we're not skipping over the top one we make the bracha with our hands on both of them under the khala cover lifting them all ten fingers the bracha ramoti has ten words all ten fingers pre corona all ten fingers on the two challahs and then we cut the bottom collar why do we cut the bottom khala it has to do with kabbalistic reasons of intimacy of romance between us and hashem between us and shabbos not for not for now so we cut one so rashi says that the the notion of the notion of botsaya applies to the bracha we recite the rashford the rashford one of the great spanish commentaries medieval commentary he says no the notion of being botsaya doesn't just mean making the brach onto and then cutting one it means that we cut two you may have seen some people of the custom putting two columns one on top of the other and they cut all the way through the top column and all the way through the bottom column that is the opinion of the rashba how do we follow so the shock says we follow rashi you make the bracha on two and you only cut one the bottom one friday night the top one shabba's day however the gra the vilnigon followed the opinion of the rajba and the village said you cut all the way straight through two many litvax and many others follow this guru you see some people have the custom of the gra they don't cut one challah they cut all the way straight through the two challahs there's a third opinion the ariza the oriza didn't just have two khalas the arizal two big challahs and ten little challah rolls if you've been to the tisch of the great hasida you'll see that the great rebels also follow this and they have twelve challahs at each meal in shabbos two big loaves and ten little loaves upon him it commemorates other other um uh great miracles that occurred with bread so shakhandar says we follow rashi only have to cut one the villain and those who have the custom cut two they are even one so far as having twelve what is the mahlokas what's the debate between rashi narajba whether you cut one or cut two so it's been explained by some the rashes of the opinion that allah mishnah's rash is of the opinion that commemorates the double portion that fell in the desert so how do we commemorate the double portion by having that same double portion present at each of the times that we may come outside you don't have to actually cut both you only need to cut one however the rash was of the opinion that no what it's commemorating is double the idea that shabbos we have a single portion uh sorry weekday we have a single person shabbos you have a double portion in order to show the chavez you're enjoying and benefiting from the double portion then you don't just cut the one you cut two over each meal of shams that is a macholokas several afghanis several practical differences one nafkamina is do you need to have mishna at shalashudas we all know that you have two loaves friday night and two loves travis day what about the third meal i should have actually put that on this list women are also obligated inshallah and they should not neglect the mitzvah of shabbos shows i didn't even put it on this list to discuss today they will have to do with it another time but women also should enjoy the rival deriving the holiest meal of the whole work of the whole week shall shoot us it's a very very holy time so do you have to have the double portion so the rama says no the rambam say it's preferable yes have that double portion and they could be arguing along the same lines of what is the role of lacha mishna what is the mitsuha is it commemorative of how it fell in the desert or is it to experience a double portion on shots good all of this was by way of leading up to the question of women are women obligated in la mishna and again this is very important sometimes the woman will wash or be the last to wash or still be in the kitchen we're still taking care of something when hamotzi is being made and when she comes to the table she's only there in order to get a sliced bread she's not tapping into the schleimers the complete loaves of bread she wasn't there when the hamotzi was made on the la chamishna on the double portion are women obligated in mishnah why would you think they should be exempt for the same reason one would have thought they'd be exempt from kirish is a mrs assaisman is a time-bound mitzvah because it only applies on javascript on monday night it only applies on shabbos that is the very definition of time bound so if it's time bound mitzvah one what it might have anticipated women will be exempt however the iran rebel nissan says no women are obligated in lache mishnah why are women obligated in la because just like we learned from the brachas whoever is obligated and shamur is obligated in zakhor whoever has to abstain and refrain and rest from the 39 categories of creative labor also has to fulfill the positive commandment of kirish so the iran says just like kiddish is a positive commandment of distinguishing and differentiating shabbos so to lecha mishna the double portion is a positive way of honoring shabbos and just like women were obligated in kiddush because they're obligated in shamur they're obligated not to do the 39 categories of creative labor so to their obligated mishna for the very same reason that's the run robena time gives a different reason and it's relevant to chanukah in which we find ourselves afraid of hanukkah to all rabbits was the grandson of rashford says women are obligated you know why you also niece why are women obligated in hanukkah candles it's a time-bound commandment it only applies at night and only applies from the 25th of kiss life for eight days why are women obligated to hanukkah because they were and this is a debate rashidosos doesn't mean they were included in the salvation it doesn't mean they were the catalyst and the cause of the salvation but either way women are obligated because they too were in the miracle similarly megillah women have to hear the mcgill on purim why time bound mitzvah the answer is they too were in the miracle so a banana time says the same is true when it comes to when it comes to since women also benefited from the falling of the portion of mon they too are the beneficiaries of the mitza of the miracle afei na yubo so anes women are also obligated in mishnah now this is a little bit more complicated it's a little bit more complicated because the principle of affirmative generally only applies to rabbinic commandments we don't find affair applying to biblical commandments hanukkah and purim we don't find it applying to a biblical commandment if you assume lachemism is biblical then it's hard to understand why women will be obligated based on afeni bosois there's a lot to say about that but not for now what is the conclusion the mishna bhura and the and the yakut yosef jihad for spartan yosef all say that women are drumroll please obligated in mishnah that means to say again what's a woman's place at the table it's at the table the woman's equally obligated and kiddish she must be present technically she she can be the one to recite kiddish the woman is equally obligated in la mishna technically she could be the one to say emotsy traditionally it is the man but a woman is equally obligated in these things be it kiddush at first and secondly be it be it to commemorate the miracle of the man a woman as well is is obligated okay moving over to zmeros this is a topic i'll just gloss over um the question of smiros a woman is sitting at the table can she should she may she sing and participate in the singing of in the singing of zmiros so this is a discussion part of a bigger topic of coalition why is it a problem with kolesha well if it's the immediate family of the woman then of course she can and should participate sing out loud sing harmony sing however she would like to if it's her own family absolutely she can she should would be a beautiful contribution to the symphony of song to the harmony produced by the family at the table the question is what if there are men to whom she is not related who are present meshi sings miros then so generally speaking we have a prohibition uh called kolisha the gemara tells us that the voice of a woman is a form of a of an erva it can be seductive it can be provocative it can uh it can cause a man to be aroused and the gemara therefore lists it and includes it among the things that require a sense of a sense of modesty and we know that that's true today there are female singers who aside from their physique can use their voice in a way which is uh drawing a lot of drawing a lot of attention not just to the quality of the voice but in a much more seductive or provocative way so we have a principle we have a lacha double shot you're saying a holy uh you're saying a holy uh recitation a person has to be careful not to do so in the presence of any irva someone who's not dressed properly a man or woman or in the presence of a of a voice of a of a woman which also has the status of an irva so we know that's true if a woman is singing a non-jewish or a non-ritualistic and non-holy type of song does it also equally apply apply if the woman is singing a song of shire kodesh if a woman is singing zmiros would it apply so there's literature about this again i don't want to spend a lot of time on this right now i'll just share with you one piece of literature literature on the subject made famous or most famous of the the chuba of this the three days of weinberg a great goddamn it was in europe and in switzerland and he wrote a shiva to a youth movement like what we would call ncsy today where ncsy wanted to know could they have a shallow shooters could they have a kumsits kadensius why have a davening where the young men and young women the teenagers who are part of this youth movement meant to inspire them could they sing together even though the woman's voices will be discernible and again now is not the time but if it's a multiplicity of women singing together so you cannot recognize any of those voices in isolation one way to avoid kolesha so the sri deish rules on this matter and he says the following it's in israel and he says the following races he was talking about yeshua was the ncsy of its day they may rely on the great authorities of ashkenaz who understood pedagogy education inspiration they understood to the young women of the generation the importance for them to be exposed to the energy of singing of shabbos of ruach of spirit in producing inspiration in the next generation uh habanos venus yosemite so other lands where they were more strict on this matter were not as successful as inspiring the next generation those who were not less strict but those who understood that zemiro's kodesh they understood shire kodesh that holy songs even sung by a woman will not be done so seductively or provocatively and therefore he writes there is a hat there that can be relied upon for women to sing in the context of zmiros even in front of men they are not related to that is the opinion of the sri deish it's one opinion and certainly authoritative opinion and upon opinion upon whom we or one can most certainly unapologetically rely however there is also another opinion that says that coalition would apply in that context and that in a mixed company a woman should be as careful man should be as careful about kalisha as they uh as they would even in the context outside of shure kodesh i'll just move on from this with sharing a historical uh footnote on it in the book uh making of agudo it tells a story regarding this subject and it says the following tells the following story in a footnote where is it yeah um [Music] in the early 1930s in the early 1930s um who is the protagonist that we're talking about who was invited uh he was invited to spend shabbos the home of the robe of elizabeth new jersey revelator may have prayed before the arrival of the shabbos the rough took him aside for a confidential exchange of words he told his guest that he had several daughters eating at the shabbos table who enjoyed shabbos by seeing his mirrors along with him at this point in the narrative this was ravi rudim in the rasheed of near troll rabbi reuben interjected that there were no uh bisakos at the time and so on the rav told him that barely had been a guest at his home in 1929 and when the girls began singing he stood up and ran out of the room unintentionally perturbing the shabbos for the girls and humiliating their father the host then asked for the prayer then asked whether a roommate would do the same the rudiment replied that with his slobodka background he would not destroy the family's shadow spirit or embarrass his host he would remain sitting and not listening to the girls and despite the seeming normative imperative to leave the room life from kite does not have to hurt others he concluded an interesting uh an interesting example of this historically between bear and ravraman and rabbi prayer by titus's father-in-law so there are discipline customs one can rely on the street to issue if they like there are those who are strict and who do not rely on it as well okay our last subject which is the last subject is the concept of zeeman what is the concept of zeeman so the notion of benching with azimuth is mentioned in the mishnah in brachus if three people eat together they have an obligation not simply to recite benching to themselves but by combining and collaborating on their benching then they raise that benching to another level so to say and they add the siemens component when we think of zim and think of rava sign of the invitation to bench together gemmart quotes two different sukkam as the source of this mitzvah of zeeman either gaddullah shemiti in rome or kesem either one of those circumstances two opinions in the gemara which one is the source of this mitzvah to recite benching with azimuth is it doris order is it a biblical commandment or been a commandment the rival holds that zima the institution of zima benching collaboratively is biblical whereas the eerie in the root behold it is it is rabbinic why do we have it so he writes because when a person benches zimon you're going to concentrate more when you collaborate when you do it together as a community you're going to concentrate more on your expression of gratitude for the meal that you just had your venture will take on a higher level the river says no that's not the reason the river says when you bench with the zima you're honoring hashem we don't do things independently when you can do it collaboratively when you do it collaboratively and you do it as a sense of a community then you elevate it beyond just the individuals and you show greater honor to hashem by doing it together how do you do zeeman says and this was true through the time of the that the real way you do zeeman is only one person benches the individual who is honored with leading the benching recites the rabbis invites others and when others give them permission they give rashus then the one person says all of benching out loud everyone else doesn't say benching they simply answer amen at the end of each bracha of benching and then they've done it together similar to just the mizame just the one leading the siemens says everything out loud and everyone listens passively and only answers amin the mribura says today we have collective add we'd never be able to do it to sit and listen to someone at bench the whole time and concentrate every word they're saying it'll never happen and that's why we today recite the benching together alongside the mazamene together with the person who is who is leading the who's leading the benjamin now do women make a semen if three men eat together then they make a semen what about three women who are eating together do they make a zimmer so the governor sounds like no they don't so how do you reconcile these two gamoras that seem to contradict one another whether when women three women eat together they should make a semen so toso says you know how you reconcile it unlike when three men eat together they're obligated in zeeman if three women eat together it's optional to have a semen so one gemara says yes women zeman the other says no it's not a contradiction when it comes to men if three men eat together you're obligated if three women eat together you're not obligated it is optional the base yosef says no that's not what it means women participating in ziman that's what's obligated meaning if three men are making a simon and there's a woman who ate with them she must answer their simon that's what the gemara said meant when it said women and ziman not a woman's ziman but a woman answering a man's zimwin that's what the gemara meant and that is how it's not a contradiction the rush is of the opinion that three women who eat together are obligated to make their own zemen are obligated to make their own zemen why might they not be obligated again we said this is a much bigger discussion and we are running out of time so i'm going to cut to the bottom line can women and men combine for a semen together rashi says no the mission bureau says it wouldn't be modest we pass that they cannot combine to make azimuth together so what should women do in practice should they make their own zimwin or not says he never heard of women making a semen if you look at the earthquake women's sitter it does not include a woman's siemen the shogunate the altareba and the banishchai say women should make a semen they grow the vilnigon held that three women are obligated to make a demon so should they should they not we have different traditions ask your local orthodox rabbi or women should ask their mothers and grandmothers what the custom is in their home do women make a semen or not by the way zilberstein the three day the um rep silverstein and rashford and arabic both say that let's say there are three women eating with one man so the women are making a zeman should the man answer the woman zeeman or zalman and razorstein both say yes once the women are making a zeman if they're following those opinions it's a bona fide semen and a man of course should answer should answer that semen why am i raising this is our last subject for tonight because we pass can explicitly in the shogunate that women are obligated if not obligated to make their own siemen women are obligated to be yotsei simon that means to say that and this comes up very often also where they're ready to bench and say honey let's bench says go ahead without me i can hear you from here i'm still clearing up i'm still putting things away i'm still taking care of whatever no the benching with a zeman should not happen until all women are at the table because even if it's a men's siemen siemen women are obligated to hear the semen of the men that is how we pascan so what we saw on all these subjects kirish women are equally obligated to men women are equally obligated to men simon women are equally obligated not to make aziman yod say if a simon is being made to hear it as men and therefore what's a woman's place at the shabbos table right alongside the man making sure that she is present in order to fully experience not only the wonderful work and the effort the backbreaking labor and the selfless investment of spirituality she has put into making shabbos she should reap the spiritual reward and benefit of being there to experience and be enriched by all these many many halachas of shabbos as well we'll continue with this theme at some point in the future thank you for joining wishing everyone a friend from hanukkah a wonderful night stay happy stay healthy and stay holy