What Makes a Great Rebbi? | Rabbi Chaim Tzvi Senter | Behind the Bima #193

Welcome back behind the Beamer back in our studio at my house. Go to the last episode that came out our intro our conversation was filmed in a little bit of a different location. Very different location. We were in Israel and it was a lot of fun actually to film it there. It was incredible. For people don't know or haven't watched it I actually wanted to show it to my wife last night. So I'm like check out the intro to behind the Beamer. Esti my daughter is the one who was with us and took on the video. Looks pretty professional considering it looks like it could be a tunnel in Gaza if there's no context. Yeah. We we took it in Ir David. Ir David. Pilgrimage road is now entirely excavated and you can go all the way from the bottom and walk up the same way during the time of the second base I make this your ancestors walked and come out at the Kotel Harabayas. It's an amazing thing. And you know the timing that we did that obviously in the lead-up to Pesach when so many Jews would be coming to Harabayas. You really just closed your eyes and you envisioned everyone walking up that road and you kind of get the goosebumps about it. You know envisioning what it was like when it was packed and the markets were open and people were carrying animals and korbanos. It just It was very beautiful but but here in Boca Raton Pesach prep looks a little bit different. >> at the look at that smooth segue. Smooth You must be a rabbi. >> be, right? Pesach prep looks a little bit different. Unfortunately right now we're not being oleh l'regel. We're not going to Eretz Yisrael for to build the Beit Hamikdash. Hopefully soon. Amen. But for rabbis pre-Pesach looks a little bit different. You are preparing for Shabbat Hagadol Russia. You're answering every shaila from every supermarket. People want to know symbols. They want to know >> So are you. I am too. I'm saying but walk our listeners through what that looks like for a rabbi. Pre-Pesach? Pre-Pesach. You got Shabbat Hagadol. You're answering shailas. You're trying to help your own family. What does that look like? Well first of all Uh, we're back in the studio. We almost weren't. We got on the last plane. Um, I almost didn't get out because I feel horrible being out. We all belong in. That's the front row of the miracles of Hashem and the Jewish destiny. And we're thinking about our brothers and sisters there. And hopefully by the time this airs there's a sweeping complete victory. The war is over and we're celebrating a beautiful Middle East. Um, Maine. Um, pre-Pesach is a busy for you, for me, for all of us. Everyone loves to ask, "Like, Rabbi, which is your busiest time? Before Rosh Hashanah or before Pesach?" I haven't I haven't met yet the non-busy time. So, it's all just it's which busy, you know? It's before Shavuot, it's all which busy. Um, but I love the Pesach atmosphere, the energy. I just think in general it's important to be positive. The people complain. Which is not a shortage of things to complain about. Price of matzah this year and every year and other parts. Um, but it's great. I don't want to pretend I'm really involved in the cleaning at home. Uh, I'm not. I'm grateful to those who do. Uh, a lot of questions that come in. I thought it's very interesting. The rabbinus changed a lot. >> In that um, it used to be the rabbis had secret lists that the average person didn't have access to. And so, people inundated us with the toothpaste and the mouthwash and the medicine and the and the parchment paper and the whatever else. They either brought brought Rabbi Blumenkrantz's book uh, zichrono livracha. If they, you know, what whatever one's approach is, whether that's strict or too strict or should be followed. Um, but today, and and this is what I try to encourage people. Here's a really interesting question. It's the art of how can you direct people to this research without sounding like a rabbi who doesn't want to be bothered? So, when the Pesach questions are coming, how do you say, "You know, it's really or download the CRC app. It's amazing. Their Pesach section, the OU app, fantastic. The ORB has it. Had to open up a second chat. Thousands of people all year round, but particularly Pesach, just they post their questions. And it's searchable. So, you could in the chat, even if you're not paying attention cuz it's going nuts all day, you can join the chat and then archive it. But when you want to know about um, let's see. Almond flour at Costco Kirkland this year doesn't need a hashgacha. So, it just just put almond flour Kirkland in the chat, you'll find it cuz someone else asked it. So, it's not that we're too busy or it's not our responsibility. It's that we're just basically telling people, here's where I'm looking, you can look yourself, give you that shortcut, make it easier. But but when people ask a question, sometimes it's not only about >> Correct. >> It's a point of contact. It's a connection. It's an opportunity to check in. Right. It's a point of contact. I think people are looking for that relationship and the shaila is a way to get that relationship. I also think where you're able to filter down the information. So, you could look at the CRC, you could look at the OU, the Star-K, and sometimes get three different answers to how to kosher a microwave, for example, you and I were talking about the other night. And I think what they are looking for is like, "Rabbi, tell me what what the what what do we do?" Right? The OU says this, the CRC says that. I don't really know how to distill that information. Can you guide me through that process?" And I think that's where they're very much looking for. >> that and that's So, that's the hard part though is when are they looking for particular guidance or what we do. And when is it then, rather than give the fish, teach a man how to fish, rather than give you the answer, here's where I'm going, here's where you can go, and you can feel empowered by that to know. So, when you're at Trader Joe's during the rest of the year and you want to know is this extra good or no good, check the CRC app. That's what I do. That's what you can do. I'm I'm happy to hear from you. How's your family? Everyone well? I'm not trying to avoid you. It's not a matter of efficiencies. A little bit it is that too. You know, but some of it um and and people shouldn't be afraid to ask questions. Better to ask than not ask. >> Sure. Um I find that the people who tend to ask ask a lot of questions, people don't ask almost don't ask any questions, but don't be afraid. We're here. Here are the tools to look yourself. If they don't work or or you're getting conflicting answers and you want clarity, us we we do a pre-Pesach workshop where I don't know, 90% of it is the same every year. How to kosher a counter and a sink, and can you kosher a dishwasher? 90% is the same every year, but the 10%, you know, there's always the new It's nice to refresh. >> Yeah. Yeah, the latest, the new. But these resources, that's what I was saying, like to be a rabbi today, I I shared actually because I got it from my person at the ORB who's excellent and I shared it with our whole rabbinic team and my family chat I'm trying to like already like preemptive strikes but I said like here are incredible resources FAQs this year. Here's somebody made a the COR made I think a graphic about Kirkland about Costco. Here go to Costco here's what's kosher for Pesach without a hechsher. Right. Great. Now if you have that visual that graphic you know to go to Costco you got your answers. So this the resources are more than ever in some ways it's easier than ever. It's also easier than ever with I think Pesach product Pesach I'm not saying it's easier than ever to make Pesach the expense to cleaning but in terms of the diversity of products the access to information from those perspectives it's it's easier. >> And we've also come a long way here in Florida. I remember 16 years ago when I came we did not have the level of opportunities to buy products that we have now and yeah. >> to I'm going to New York for a wedding Sunday and in the past it would be like take two suitcases to bring things back for Pesach from New York and now it's does not have them in it. Now let's talk about Shabbos Hagadol because what what I loved was on Shabbos you and I were talking about some topics and then once you pick your topic you get really excited about. I don't think people realize No no it it is a labor of love for you right? I mean when you go into a topic you go all in and and and you talk about a lot like it's not just oh it's a hit and run sheer. Like once you go into a topic that kind of becomes a theme for you for the next few months something that you feel you want to talk to people about and it's a continuous conversation. I like that I'm being interviewed on Behind the Bima. Um No I'm trying to draw out because we we call it Behind the Bima I want to take people behind the Bima of like what do rabbis dread the Shabbos Hagadol drasha? Do you look forward to it? Are you are you panicking about a topic? Are you excited about a topic? Like what goes through your thought process in in developing >> it I love it. For me Shabbos Shuva Shabbos Hagadol first of all you know Baruch Hashem our community comes together the community deserves all the credit comes together it's a real learning opportunity. But it's it's more than and different than just like another topic or doing a topic well or comprehensively or in a way that's provocative. It What I try to do is take a theme that I'm thinking about, I'm working on, I think is important, that's going on, and take a deep dive into it. There's some halacha sources in there. Always put a little lumdas, you know, for the people who want to remind them that I hope, I try, I want to know how to learn. Um but but generally speaking, it's it's a it's a bigger topic. Personal growth, growth, self-help, identity, you know, Shabbos Hagadol different Shabbos Hagadol. Shabbos Hagadol anti-semitism, community topics. So I didn't know what to do this year and I just Every time you feel like I've exhausted it and I won't even lie, I I'm embarrassed to admit this, but I didn't ChatGPT like suggest topics for Shabbos Hagadol. Like and and ChatGPT, you know, I was a very slow to adopt and now I think it's incredible in many ways. It's not writing drashas or articles for me. I'm not outsourcing what I think are core things. It's an aid. It's an aid. It can be an asset. Um it didn't come back with anything good. It basically found a bunch of cliche things. Some of which I've done, some of which I would never do, but [clears throat] it wasn't particularly helpful. And then you daven on it. You're like, "Okay, Hashem, give me something I'm excited about." Because you could do a million topics. Just like an average Shabbos drasha. If you're not excited, we've talked about that. You could read the dvar Torah 3 years in a row, you're like, "Nah, nah, nah." And the fourth you read it, you're like, "Oh, that's That's my dvar Torah." Like some things speak to you different times. >> the davening part cuz I do that with drashas sometimes. I I I I have a conversation with Hashem that often times looks like this. I can get up and give a drasha and I'll do fine. But if you want me to be like the vessel through which you give a meaningful like then make me that vessel. Whether that becomes a B to an A, like it doesn't matter. My kavod's fine. But if you want to give Torah to a community in a way that's going to inspire them, then feel free to help me out on a Friday afternoon. Right. Yeah, same here. So I davened on it and then I actually had a meeting. And I won't get into too many details at all, but it was a meeting with somebody who um sort of an intervention. Somebody has a particular addiction. Um they're not honest with themselves about it. They're in denial of it. They thought they're super honest about it, but it was clear that they're only trying to be honest to a point in a very qualified way and and maybe there is an issue, but not what you think it all is and I can't see myself or call myself that name and and it was a baruch Hashem a very successful conversation. I hope and daven for him a positive positive outcome and I realized like this is the topic. He is enslaved and I say it with no stigma. I say it with the most unbelievable respect. I've been to several meetings, 12-step meetings. I've had the privilege of awarding people their medallion. >> about it a lot. And I've written about it cuz I'm blown away by it and I I grow and learn and listen and admire people, a room people who are raw and real and honest and tackling. And I I believe that everyone's addicted to something. Just some things have a stigma to them and some don't. So, if you're addicted to work and you're a workaholic and you have no balance in your life, we admire you have ambition and drive. And maybe if you're addicted to shopping, whether it's in your means or out, that person's stylish and that person's really with it. And we have all kinds of you know, some people are addicted by the way, we've talked a lot about running and there is if you're training for ultra Iron Man and you don't see your family and your business is suffering and you're You know, you're you're addicted. >> component there. There's someone I know who's addicted to learning and learning is the most noble beautiful pursuit, talmud Torah kulam, but it's at the expense of his livelihood and his family's in financial distress over it. Um and that so so everyone has something and technology is a big one today. >> And gambling has been a buzz topic recently. >> I wrote that and I'm like, that's my topic. >> That's your topic. >> That's my topic. Our only source of mitzvah I am freeing ourselves from modern addictions. And a little preview of it, I haven't really started taking it but you're right, once I choose a topic, I see it everywhere. Oh, you get excited about it. >> see it in every safer I open, every article. Like when you have a topic, >> That's I saw an article the other day. I sent it to you immediately. I was like, I don't know how you're going to use it, but I know you're going to use it. >> it's combined with and and this isn't unique to our community, but Purim was we avoided very nearly disaster. The issues of teens, adults certainly, but teens drinking today across communities. I don't think Boca's worse than other places, but that doesn't mean it's better. Um it's dangerous. It's dangerous. And there were some near misses. And we speak to Hatzalah how many calls they did to teenagers. Their busiest day since they opened in South Florida, they told us. >> Was Purim, right. Um and it's it's scary. It's very scary. All year long and on. So, we know gambling is a big issue. Rabbi Aryeh Leib Weiser, our dear friend, has spoken very strongly about gambling. The article you shared with me is about kids online phone, how easy March Madness now. We're all betting on YU to win it all, but the gambling So, there's gambling, alcohol, Purim, it's Rabbi Yair >> even things that don't carry the like addiction stigma. You could be addicted to shopping, materialism. You could be addicted to a lot of things. >> You could be addicted to exercise. Technology is a big one. They're not all that sort of stigma, that substance or some behavior that we're judgmental of. >> But by the end, you have a good you you're you want to teach people how to break free. That's like the end goal is how to >> Yeah. Now, it happens to coincide, I realize, with I made a commitment to Rabbi Leib that goal back, my dear friend, the founder of Smicha's Chaver, with this He he created this platform and this 30-day challenge to break free of technology. Uh break free of technology doesn't mean everybody like going back to Amish days, uh but it means being in much more control of it. And it was interesting because I agreed to it and then I signed up for it, not personally, but as a sort of teacher of it. It includes a whole WhatsApp group and a daily challenge and there's a whole system. He deserves enormous credit. He worked with others on it. They all deserve credit. It's beautiful. And then I started getting like these emails like when are you going to implement it? When are you putting out the challenge? Why aren't you doing it? And then And then my mind always I was like, no, this is a good Sefirah thing, build up the Sefirah thing. But then it became clear to me why Hashem had me do that because this is the perfect way to end this drasha. >> that people will just walk out and say, "Oh, that was a nice drasha." But they didn't really get >> cuz that's easy to be off of technology for. But basically right after Pesach to spend the first 30 days, but maybe all of Sefirah with these who will sign up, who will take it on. And technology is specific, but also as an example of other addictions that we have. >> And if I could speak as a listener now having heard 16 of your Shabbos Shuva Shabbos Hagadol Drashas, I know it's a lot, your best ones have been those. The ones where there's like a real tangible practical takeaway. I remember when you did Shabbos and for weeks and months afterwards people were sending you pictures of their Shabbos table. You know, ones like that where you really carry it through the rest of the year, that's what makes an impact because it's not just as I said like a hit and run Drasha, this is a community conversation. Like we as a community are tackling something and I think that builds into what you were saying that the Shabbos it's not just a sheer, it's like a community Talmud Torah. It's like we're going to come together, we're going to work on something together. As I said >> the leader are going to guide us in how to do that. >> Not a leader but as a participant who's including others in it. But it's it's a it's more than just a state of the union. It's like here's something I think as a community where we're at and something we can be working on. Um and I'm excited and I'm excited excited to prepare and excited for the takeaway. My promise I overprepare, that's a whole separate topic how long it is, how endless it is. He mentioned how long it is for our listeners. It is it is a tour de force. I mean it Lashon Tov in the best way possible. Rabbi Goldberg has been known to go regularly over two hours >> No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. >> of the interventions of the denial but it's okay. No one's complaining about it. It's amazing, it's great. You know, it's interesting though, just you mentioned >> Never two hours, yeah. You mentioned Purim. Um Purim was very different for me this year because I saw it through the lens of a teenage. I have a teenage son. Yeah. And Purim for me for the last I'd say 20, 25 years meant one thing. And then when you have a teenage son and you start seeing it through their eyes, it's interesting. You have daughters before I had daughters. I have a son before you had a son. So we're flipping >> Yeah. You know, I always learn from you, now you're going to see from me a little bit. The conversation changes when your teenage son gets a little older and his friends are doing stuff and his Yeshiva might be doing stuff and you have a very different perspective on that stuff and it was really interesting for me the conversations we had um and um and how we approached Purim in general. So I'll pose it as a question for our listeners to you. We could talk about it now or another time. We actually called a meeting, not me, we, of our local rabbonim with heads of school in the aftermath of Purim. Again, thank God there was no disaster, but it was too close for comfort and it's not a local problem, it's a national international problem, but to have this conversation. I don't know where the onus is and I think it's a discussion worth having, right? Schools do their part, they try to police it, they show up even at places they don't want to be to make sure none of their kids are there. They send the email in advance. There are the parents and parents of course but parents you know there's a certain amount of parents can do. Parents can put a tracker on a kid and follow them and put breathalyzers on them and how much is it on children? The teenagers themselves have to take responsibility, onus of their own lives? Is it our Purim is the answer to go to the extreme of everything's dry like our Purim seder we can't have any alcohol, that's the answer? Or they should learn how to do it in moderation and where is moderation? Yeah, sure. Do we want to go there right now? We can. Okay. I I think the onus is on the parents. I really do. I think the schools in the community give cover to parents. Let's say technology. I always want in my children to have more managed technology. It's very hard when nobody else is doing it because then you get the all my friends are doing it. But once the schools put in certain practice in place it gave me the cover as a parent to then say, okay, now that that excuse is gone. Now you can't do the like all my friends are doing it anymore and now we're going to tackle this issue. I think alcohol on Purim is the same thing. I think you have to know where your child is. I think you have to monitor your child. I don't care if they're a teenager, you are the parent. Schools can't babysit your children. >> Let's play this out. Let's play this out. Yeah, let's play this out. Got a 15, 16 year old kid and he's like I'm going to Shacharis. I'm going out with my friends. Well, like what are you going to put a leash around them? You going to lock them down in the room? What are you going to do? >> Let me ask you a question. You've given drashas about this. When you give the keys to your daughters on a on a multi Shabbos, do you say, here are the keys, go have fun, come back in 6 hours, I have no idea what you're doing. It could be that you're going to be, you know, joyriding on I-95, but that's okay because you're 16 so give me the keys. No. >> I'm saying the same thing here though. So you send your 15 year old son down and you talk about responsibility, you talk about the risks, you talk about it. God forbid you're in a car with somebody who's drunk, you get arrested, you go to jail, you could kill somebody, you could be killed yourself. Your entire life changes forever. You could talk about you could get hit by a car. So many things you could talk about. And therefore it's critical that you can't drink whatsoever or that you could drink a little bit or that you could drink only in this environment. What are you What are you What are you What are you What are you >> think it's very hard for parents until the community creates an environment that allows the parents to come in and to guide them. So I think yes, once we as a community in the Vaad Rabbonim come together and the schools come together and we really make a push for it, then we give the cover for the parents to go to their children and say this is not what Boca is about this year. Like last year got out of control. We were milla inches away from real catastrophes. We can't have that happen again anymore. So all right, so the community could get involved in encouraging Kenissa police or get people to comply. But what if there are institutions plural in the community who have alcohol flowing freely with access to kids, it's not being supervised, maybe some even have L'chaims with kids and Rebbeim or adults are drinking with kids and having L'chaims with kids, you know, is it glorifying, is it giving access? If if not all institutions are participating and on the same page, what happens then? And by the way, I'm posing all these questions >> you and I'm struggling with that. So I said like I saw it for the first time through a different lens this year with a teenage son. And and you definitely experience Purim differently. >> And then should our seder itself be dry? Like in my I don't think we should be falling over ourselves. Certainly they shouldn't see anybody drunk. They shouldn't see anybody vomit. They shouldn't see anybody. But but can they see us enjoying several glasses of wine to get leibedik and singing and sharing divrei Torah and making L'chaims? Or you know, if you go dry, the research shows that many alcoholics grew up in homes where there was zero alcohol. They didn't have a role model of moderation or the per most people don't call moderation, but I think there's different levels of moderation for per moderation as opposed to I think these are all big questions. >> and I think everyone this year felt it was a wake-up call. All the rabbonim and all the heads of school, they all felt that like not all, many, most felt that like we were an inch away from something really bad and we don't want that to happen. The other thing I'll just point out that's very interesting is each year it feels like an increasing number of people come to Boca from other communities where there's much more of a prevalence of drinking specifically because they want to get away from that. And I find that very telling in a number of different ways. >> Yeah, but the problem is will this still be a place of refuge for them? >> Right, I understand. >> Um that's the challenge. >> But it's just interesting that even parents in other communities where this is so prevalent are are they're looking to get away cuz they said if I can't protect my child in the community, let me go somewhere else where I think there's a better chance of that. >> I'll throw one more in this and then we got to get to our great conversation with the Rubai Center is golf carts. Yeah. You know, in Florida it's very popular to rent to borrow golf carts for Purim. You could deliver shalach manos, be driving. A lot of kids are driving these golf carts. A lot of people Yeah, there's accidents, broken bones. I heard in a community south of us there were a bunch of kids ended up in the hospital from a golf cart incident. >> year also. >> this is what people don't appreciate. I guess this is a behind the beam of thing. It could be about scooters on Shabbos. It could be about golf carts. It could be about drinking. Like do we are we the Grinch who stole everything, all the fun? Like should we give a drasha, send out a letter that says we ban golf cart, we call for a ban on golf carts? Are we embarrassing? Are we calling out the people who would do it anyway? Are we calling on people that if you do a golf cart only adults should drive, not kids should drive? Some of the adults who are driving are not in the state that they should be driving. Like where do rabbis and community leaders, where where does it fit in? Same as a mitzvah to say something that will be heard, it's a mitzvah not to say what won't be heard. Are you just going to create controversy? >> these are all amazing questions and obviously we we're not going to tackle it right now. The one thing I will say is for those people who say rabbi, you're the Grinches, stay out, stay in your lane. What they don't realize is you're getting the phone calls afterwards. Yeah, you don't have to live with that though. >> could stay out of the way, but when the families are in crisis, when there is an illness, when there's an issue with the school, you're getting that phone call and you have to clean up that mess. So, there's a part of me that says it's much easier to be in front of the conversation than behind it. We just need everyone to be on the same page and that's where you say it gets very hard cuz not everyone's on the same page. >> Right. >> People come from different cultures, come from different communities, come from different experiences. Some people are completely out of the stand. I was talking to a father, "My My son doesn't" I happen to know the son did. So, it's not so simple and I get that and I don't blame anyone, but I do think the first step is everyone getting together and recognizing that it's an issue no different than any other addiction we talked about. >> this conversation. Even gambling, you can give your children all the conversations about gambling in the world, but when they have access to technology that they could download an >> single one of their friends spends all Sunday doing fantasy football, it becomes very hard not to. Yeah, these are big questions, but now the question is about chinuch. These are actually good segue. This is not an This is not a separate episode. Rabbi Sender, Rabbi Chaim Tzvi Sender. Um this is actually a continuation of the conversation that we had with Rabbi Moshe Dovid Lichtenstein, with Rabbi Keilsh, Rabbi Sender. They're different perspectives. They all respect each other. I know that. A personal friendship, tremendous mutual respect. And it's different perspectives and vantage points. It's an ongoing conversation about chinuch and boundaries and validation and love versus fear. Expectation, a dirty word is expectation and the critical word. And Rabbi Sender is a incredible uh role model, uh great example to his uh yeshiva who love him. We had the privilege actually when we landed in Israel on Mar Cheshvan, he was flying, he was on our flight. While we waited for baggage, he was our first person. Urei betuv Yerushalayim, he encouraged everybody see the good, you can always nitpick and find things wrong. Look for the good, look for the bad. So, this is a great conversation. We're excited to bring it to you. Without any further ado, my dear friend Rabbi Chaim Tzvi Sender. Welcome back to Behind the Bima. We have a great privilege, a great zchus to have conversation with a dear long friend, someone I admire enormously and inspired by. Rosh Yeshiva of Yeshiva Tiferes Torah, Rabbi Chaim Tzvi Schachter, thank you so much for being with us going behind the Bima. My pleasure. Thank you very much. I'm happy to be here. So, we go we go way back. It's mutual, by the way. I am inspired by you. I appreciate you're kind you're kind. Uh Teaneck, New Jersey, an old Teaneck, a different Teaneck. Um you're special family, rabbinic family, which I know you're proud of. Your bio even includes that reference. That you know, you're not in a vacuum as a Rosh Yeshiva, but the dynasty that you're part of, and really it is. It's a machos of Torah, which is beautiful, and brother in kashrus I have a connection with, and really um and really see that. So, it's something special. So, maybe you could talk about that, about the family you come from, your upbringing, your childhood, before we get get into the Yeshiva, and the differences you've seen, and shidduchim and chinuch, and all the topics we're going to tackle again. >> stuff we spoke about before the cameras went on. All the good stuff. But, let's start with the Let's start Let's start from the beginning. >> I want to tell you that I just visited Teaneck, and when I go there, people actually came over to me and said, "You look like a new face in town." I'm like, >> [laughter] >> We moved there 50 years ago, 52 years ago. They're like, "Yeah." >> Wow. So, I'm not proud of that, too. I'm very proud of Teaneck. And I feel like that was a very big part, also, of molding me. Uh who I am, but my father as a child was uh rabbin Teaneck or in Bergenfield, actually. And [clears throat] my grandfather was an extremely extremely impactful leader, lay leader there in the schools and everything. And my great-grandfather was a Rosh Yeshiva in YU. Did you know that? I don't think I did. Yeah, Moshe Aaron Poleyeff his name was. Oh, I know the name, but I didn't even realize the connection. >> great-grandfather. >> Wow. So, he's taught by Rabbi Zalman. And um so, that's where our family tradition, and we do have very strong um a very strong identity and pride in who we are. And I think it's very important, especially growing up in Teaneck, a lot of I think, my decisions were based on the fact that I thought of myself as I'm a center, I'm a Rosenbaum. And we have to make decisions that are our own. We didn't I didn't always do what everyone else did. Mhm. Because I had a family pride. Does that go into your chinuch, the way you talk to your guys, your bochurim? Not necessarily their particular family biologically, but being a ben melech and what it means and understanding the expectations of us. Absolutely. I think also part of it is the Yeshiva doesn't do it. Like recently there was one particular thing we did. It has to do with when we're ending this month. And the bochurim came in and they're like, "But this Yeshiva's ending earlier and that Yeshiva's ending." I said, "Well, we're not we're doing our thing. And and we're just going to be proud to be who we are. And I want them to be able to feel that and to and to also to to give that over to their children. The Piasetzna, I'm very, very influenced by the Piasetzna. He speaks about actually that every person in if they're not nevi'im, they're bnei melachim. nevi'im. He says, "You go back far enough, you do come from somewhere special." And we also come from Dovid Hamelech. And that's one of the things I I'm proud of. I'm like, "I'm from Dovid Hamelech." Now, that doesn't mean that I, you know, I know, you know, I I have know Dovid Hamelech better, but we all can have something that we're feeling connected to that makes us feel like, "Okay, I have to rise above." You know, it's interesting you mentioned that cuz my rebbe was here a few weeks ago and he spoke about this very topic and I was surprised that he spoke about it with such passion, but he spoke about the importance of recognizing your mesorah. He said part of the challenge of so many of the yeshivas is that I go to this Yeshiva, that Yeshiva. I learn from this mesorah, that mesorah. He said you lose something, you lose a pride when you don't know this is my Yeshiva. And he almost lamented that in a world where you can learn from everybody, the guys don't have a clarity and a pride like this is my mesorah going back generation and I have to be the next link in that chain carrying it forward. >> Yeah. Amazing. Is uh you know who You know who that is? >> Sure. He was describing when there was a crisis in Hasidus because all the Hasidus Rebbes ended up in Warsaw. And then you just went from one Rebbe to the other Rebbe, you're noshing from everywhere and you didn't feel like you belonged to anything particular and it was just too many choices as opposed to feeling like I'm a part of something. Being a center um is something that we definitely identified with. When I was a bachur in Yeshiva, my chavrusa um used to be able to read handwriting. And he he analyzed my handwriting and he said that I sign my name with like a big S. He said that means that you're prouder of your last name than your first name. And I'm working on being proud of my first name also, but definitely was a big thing for me being a center. Interesting. And then you learned in Telshe Yeshiva? Yes. >> Mir? Uh Telshe You want to go You want to hear everything? Yeah. I went Kindergarten, let's start. Okay, so I went to um YNJ. Mhm. Yeshiva of South Carolina. Mhm. Breuers. Mhm. Shaarei Torah Monsey. Telshe Yeshiva. And then Yeshiva of South Carolina. Yeshiva of South Carolina. Wait. So how did Reb Dovid Cohen you identify very much right now in addition to the Rebbeim from the institutions you were in, but Reb Dovid Cohen Rosh Yeshiva Chevron Correct. So what connection attracts you? Yeah. Hashem made it happen in a very beautiful way. When I was in Telshe Yeshiva, he lived next door. And I was a young American boy, didn't speak much Hebrew. His wife spoke English. And uh somehow I you know I I created a like a very slight connection and he he invited me over and his wife would translate for us. And I became very very close with him uh through that. And then when I got married after Pesach, he helped me get into Yeshiva Pesach from Telshe Yeshiva. And then uh I came back to Eretz Yisrael. I spent 2 years in his house with him, which was transformative for sure the most impactful 2 years in my life. Being in his house and learning with him and also watching the way he interacts with his wife and with with his kids and with me. He was so humble and so kind to me. Um it was just tremendous, seared in my memory. What makes him special? If you had to summarize the godless of Rav Zalman Auerbach Rav Dovid Cohen, his Torah's unbelievable, his sermons are incredible. Obviously big Talmud scholar, that's sort of the baseline of somebody who's great. Um but what's his specific greatness? What did you see? >> They go together, I think. One is humility. It's unbelievable. Like I give you one example. It's a little bit personal, but uh Rav Dovid was not who is a little bit um absent-minded sometimes in Milyo d'Alma. Like in like, you know, in his tie and his dress. And so one time they had the old washing machine where you have to clip it closed. Do you know those Israeli washing machines? The the the the um what's it called? The piece inside that turns around. You have to close it. If you don't close it, then the clothing gets out and it gets stuck. And he forgot to close it. And I was there and he was begging his wife for forgiveness with such and it was it was such like he felt so much hurt that she like now she's going to have to figure out how to untangle this. And and that was something that I remember that moment with made a very big impression. It was a it was a tremendous humility. I'll tell you another story. Um one time he actually came to learn in my house. Dovid. What happened was my we were in Shana Rishona my wife was expecting. My phone was off. He called she called the house because she wasn't feeling well. Rav Dovid said, "Your wife's alone. You can't leave her alone. So I'm going to come learn by you." He used to walk to my house every night to learn in my house. And I lived right by Ner Yisrael and I had some Ner Yisrael friends. Someone came over to to say goodbye. He was leaving. He wanted a picture. I remember like Rav Dovid taking pictures. >> [laughter] >> He was taking pictures of the two of us. And it's just like a godol who was so normal. And it was like so natural and afterwards I didn't even in the moment I didn't even like register to me that like Rav Dovid is taking pictures of us, but he did it. So, one thing is his humility is is so inspiring. And the other thing is his love for every Yid is tremendous. People tell me they met him once or twice, he remembers everything about them. All of us tell me them. People are not as tell me them. He knows their their their their children's names. And and I could tell you that Reb Dovid doesn't remember little acts in mind that as I said, things that are not relevant he doesn't remember. Mhm. He used to walk out of my house and every night he wouldn't know if he's supposed to go left or right. And every night it was the same thing. [laughter] You have to walk him. And it's like I'm Sivanit mitzvah like I don't remember where to go. Always. But when it came to remember someone's name, remember everyone's name, every detail about them. His Avodas Hashem's love for people was tremendous. I'll give you another example. I was once we were once together we're talking about abuse, about sexual abuse. Reb Dovid was there. And he couldn't stay in the room. He's like I can't do this. It's too painful for him. Said this is an important meeting. I'm here to tell everyone that it has to be addressed. He just it was too much hurt for him. Mhm. That's how sensitive he was. Just to hearing even in abstract, just to hear that this is happening was very painful for him. His love for for Klal Yisrael is beyond. You know what I find so amazing for so thank you and that was very inspiring is that when you talked about your formative experiences you didn't mention lamdus, derech eretz, you mentioned personalities. And I think that's such an important point because in a world of AI and internet and where you can access as we were talking about before, shiurim anywhere, we lose sight of that connection to gedolim which in a profound way can impact a person a lot more than any intellectual shiur that they heard. And even when you spoke about Reb Dovid Cohen, you didn't mention the learning. You mentioned the midos. And you know, we always think that, "Oh, I can't be a godol because I don't have their mind or I don't have their photographic memory." Anyone could be humble and anyone could love every Jew. And I think that's such an important point to highlight about your experiences with the godolum. Yeah. Oh, David is brilliant. And I could tell you a lot about that also and about his tremendous asmadah. There were times that we were learning where he literally cannot open up his eyes. He was so He was, you know, he he used to run himself ragged. He still does. But and he couldn't open his eyes. Like he'd say, "Okay, you're going to read. I'm just going to sit with my eyes closed." And and we'd learn and his brilliance in learning. And um part of that is also connected to this humility. He would learn with me as if I was a contemporary of his. And he would And because of the language barrier, sometimes he'd say, "I can't see. I don't understand what you're saying." And I'm like, "Okay, it's not important." He's like, "No, it's important." And it um that built me tremendously. But you're right. The the inspiration for me to to dig deeper was because he is just such a beautiful person. I'm like, "I want to be Whatever he's doing, I want to do that." So, does that speak to how you see yourself as a rosh yeshiva and really a rebbe? I mean, one of the things we have in our community and many communities are are the people who learned in centers. It's interesting in itself, known as centers versus a darchei Torah and how you feel about that. But one of the things I think is very special is there's almost no one that you talk to who learned in centers who doesn't light up with wonderful memories and affection. You're here because of an alumni shabbaton, that connection that continues to tell me them for life. The talmidim of centers are talmidim of centers for life. You see that that's the way they speak. People who learn elsewhere, they'll be like, "Yeah, that's where I learned. Have you been back?" "Nah." "You in touch with anyone?" "Nah, not necessarily." "Anyone in touch with you?" "No." But if you learned in centers, you you know that. You know that. So, is that from your experience, do you bring that to conveying and transmitting that every talmid know that you care about them, that you love them, that you're invested in them, that you remember their names and the details of their lives, and that even after they're gone? Because a lot of Yeshivas and Russian Yeshiva it's it's all about right now and the next year recruiting who's coming our numbers Yeshiva's only as good as that year and the next year. So to remember the guys who were there it's important to stay connected to alumni that's good it's important it's important of course and it's important because it's good also for a reason but that's a big part of who you are and that obviously takes intention. For sure Reb Dovid had a tremendous impact in that. I remember when he was sitting shiva and the time he would come every time he came I was watching him as he was asking him what's going on with your kids what's going on with your like everything was and it became about the other person more than about him and you know all these interactions with Reb Dovid had a tremendous impact. Um but there's something else. We mentioned my great-grandfather. So we have a tradition that my great-grandfather went to a place upstate called Hotel Israel. And that was a place where the went and many were there. Um Reb Moshe was there I believe Reb Boruch was there and a lot of other Rebbi's were there and and my great-grandfather was one of them who went there. And the owner's name was Fishel Kleinberg. And the waiters were were from Stewie Oppenheimer was a waiter. Remember that name? >> Yep. So Stewie told us this story. He said that Fishel Kleinberg would tell call the waiters together and say listen they're here to relax. Don't bother them. Don't ask them questions don't ask them advice don't ask them for brochos. You have a job do your job and that's it. It's not you're you're not here to you know to get anything from these Rebbonim. He said the one exception was Rebbi Paleyev. Paleyev's son-in-law who was my grandfather Mr. Rosenbaum used to go around to the waiters and say if there's anything you want from my grandfather he wants to talk to you. And he'd call people over and Reb Nachman Bulman told me that my grandfather used to wait my great-grandfather. He'd wait on the porch and Reb Bulman would come and he would quickly run out to his car and say Reb Nachman let's go for a walk. Reb Bulman told And 2 hours later they're like there was something about the my great-grandfather loved his talmidim. Um and it went beyond just the sheer room. And and he loved to interact with bachurim. That's part of the legacy of which, you know, I was brought up with. And I try to be that way. I feel like um there's a quote I have which is that good teachers like their subject. Very good teachers like to teach. And great teachers like their students. Mhm. I love Yeshiva Bachurim. I do. I love hanging out. I love being with Yeshiva Bachurim. I want to inspire them. I want them to to get to see the beauty of Torah. When we talk about the name centers or whatever. The name of the Yeshiva, by the way, is Adas Adereis as you mentioned. Aaron Dov Rosenbaum. Mhm. My grandfather. You know my grandfather? I didn't. You didn't know? Mr. Rosenbaum? Over my youth, yeah. Mr. Rosenbaum the Yeshiva of North North Jersey is now the Rosenbaum Yeshiva. >> Right. Right. And when we opened the Yeshiva, it was always, you know, centers Adas Adereis and I'd always get up and tell everyone it's Adas Adereis. And [clears throat] the reason why I acquiesced is is Boca. Mhm. So you should know. Mhm. We had a talmid. We were We were away on a New York trip. We go away with the boys after after Purim. And he said to me, he got up in front of everyone. He was his suit as prayed to who's leaving. He said, "I want to tell you why we call centers." He said, "Because Adas Adereis name of institution. But we're not an institution. We're a family. Family goes by family names. We are centers." Mhm. So I said, "I can't argue with that." >> That's pretty compelling. It's a powerful insight. >> changing Boca Raton Synagogue to Goldberg. No, we're definitely not. >> [laughter] >> For lots of reasons including that Goldberg's means nothing. But not because of where I come from, but the name is so generic. But You call it your Bachurim's. That's not generic. >> That's not generic, that's fair. Uh Um but that is amazing and it does say a lot about the Yeshiva and the way the bathroom themselves perceive it and experience it. You mentioned your connection with the Piazetzna Rebbe. >> Yeah. Um one of the themes throughout a lot of his writings is tailoring chinuch to specific generations in as the talmidim adapt and the times adapt, so chinuch has to adapt as well. >> Right. Um as someone who's on the front lines in Yeshiva in Eretz Yisrael, what are you seeing in terms of the boys coming in, going out? Obviously, our generation has unique challenges that previous generations did not have. Um challenges in terms of access, challenges in terms of focus, challenges in terms of distraction. Um what are you seeing in the Yeshiva as the challenges and I would switch it to the opportunities. Like what are some of the guys coming in with that can now be challenge channeled into an opportunity that may not have existed in previous generations? Wow. So I happen to think that chinuch is basically the same thing. Just um the adjustment is just in the degrees. What I mean is that I like to quote uh Socrates. Where he talks about um the younger generation, how terrible they are and how they gobble their food and they're they're they're disrespectful. My mother-in-law happens to be in in education. She ran Beth Tfilah for many years and she gave me a book of great quotes from educators. So one of them is there. And I and I I quote I I bring this quote Or first Socrates, I think quote is the first >> the first I think this is the first time the name of Socrates quote came up. Um and I I quote it I say like who do you think wrote this and it's like this has been going on forever where the older generation's complaining about the younger generation and how things are different and no nothing's the same and it isn't it's all different. It's constantly changing. That that's what it is. So it's really just a question of of uh adjusting, I think, um the volume or the intensity. Like I'll quote you, this might be the first also. Tommy Lasorda. Mhm. First it is? Is it first? >> Neither of those were on my bingo card. >> [laughter] >> Tommy Lasorda said managing and I'm going to say chinuch is the same thing. It's like holding a bird in your hand. If you hold it too tight, you crush it. You hold it too loose and it flies away. And the question is just what's too tight and what's too loose and I think that keeps changing. That's what's keep changing, but it's the same basic idea. And what I think part of what the challenge now is is because we have such access to everything. Teaching endurance and resilience, which I think is the key to success in everything in chinuch, in life, in marriage, in everything is endurance, resilience, these types of ideas. And the way to do that is to just, you know, to like exactly like Tommy was saying, which is you have to hold it like, you know, don't let it fly away. But the question is how tight to hold it and and and and stretch them just a little bit enough that they they they can deal with it, but at the same time it's a little uncomfortable. And you grow from uncomfort. That's what a person grows from, from being able to thrive in that situation and then you keep on, you know, moving that. So, the challenges that we have now, I think that they're so comfortable, everything is so accessible. I like to talk about when we were kids I I remember when they had vinyls, but okay, they had tape recorders. Walkman came out when I was a little kid and then you had to if if the if that What's that What's that called? The tape. The tape. Yeah, the tape came out you had to like unscrew it. Yeah, exactly. They have no clue what Yeah, and that was work. That was like They have no idea what it means that when you bought a tape It was like a song on either side that was good, but you had to listen to all the songs to get Now you make a playlist for life. I only want what I want and I don't want to listen to what I don't want to listen to and you you try to make your spouse a playlist like only say the things that I want to hear. Your kids a playlist only say what I want to hear but life isn't a playlist. It's It's like a tape. You got to hear it all in order to get to the good stuff. >> But how do you break through that? Because first of all the imagery of the bird is is beautiful and and I want to remember that but on a very practical level when you have boys who come in with a mindset that isn't a growth mindset necessarily. They're not used to pushing themselves beyond boundaries. They're not used to challenging themselves. The being uncomfortable is uncomfortable for them. How do you introduce that language within the concept of Torah Metorah because you also don't want to push a as you said push someone too much and say you know, I want to stretch you stretch you stretch you and then they this is not what I signed up for. So there you know, that's the balance in a very practical way. First of all, I think it's a word that it is what they sign up for and they know that I'm going to stretch you and I'm going to make you feel proud of who you are and accomplished. Um but the other thing that's important I think is there has to be some sort of incentive. Incentive doesn't necessarily have to mean a prize. It could mean a prize. It could mean a trip or something but it could also just mean the incentive of you know, feeling like you made your your rabbi proud or you yourself are proud and and you know, boys start taking tests in Yeshiva. I'm a believer in tests and I feel like you know, a person takes a test and he feels proud of himself like wow, look what I accomplished. And and that's these are all ways that when a person tastes the the sweetness of like of doing something that's hard and overcoming something then they want more of it. And and and I also I speak to them about it. I tell you a story that happened. A woman came over to me at we were together at um what's it called? Yeshiva Friedman What's the Shabbos Inspire? Project Inspire. Project Inspire. I was with from Project Inspire once. And a woman came over to me. I'd never met her before. And she said to me your talmidim I don't know what it is but they seem to be able to deal with anything. Like I've seen your talmidim go through personal tragedy, broken engagements, being rejected, and they and they manage to like to pick themselves up. Like what is it? She asked me. I said to her, "When they leave Yeshiva, if they manage to deal with me, they can deal with anything." And I what I'm trying and I tell the boys like I'm going to teach you how to be resilient. And that's going to be great because stuff's going to happen in life. You need to know how to deal with stuff, and they want they want to have that even though it's hard. So, you need to have a balance. You need to show them the reward or the benefit. There's a book by a lady named Amy Mogul. Yeah, the blessing of the skinny. Right. >> Excellent book. That's it. That's what it's about, the blessing of the skinny. You don't want to You don't want to gash someone. You just want to skin it You just want to be able to experience that I can get up. I fell down, I got up. And I'm And shall we put static? What does that mean though? What does it look like in Yeshiva? Like you specifically expose them to challenge or or raise the bar or challenge or pressure them so they have to have the resilience or you just don't bail them out, right? In this today's day and age of helicopter parenting or bulldozing parenting. So, you don't bulldoze the path for them or you don't swoop in on the helicopter to rescue them. So, is it that you're not rescuing and you're letting whatever challenges they build the resilience or you specifically not give them challenges, but push them so that they build the resilience? Definitely challenging them. I wouldn't say pressure. I don't I don't like I like to differentiate between you know, challenge and pressure, but I do I definitely try to challenge them. Each one his own way. Like I'll challenge a boy, I say, "I want you to do two black chocolate metallic nice." I can't do that. I say, "You can do that." And I'll do it with you. And I And And we'll try to find myself with their being extra time and and show them. And that's something that's that's like significant for them. In all different areas, whether it's in davening, whether it's in learning, and and to be able to give them goals which they feel as a stretch for them. Now this hashkafa, for this shita, this approach >> Yes. We're going to go next level now with your permission. You gave a shmooze a while ago. I don't know if you knew it was being recorded, wanted it to be recorded, wanted it to be spread wide, and and in certain circles it was, and and you were very strong, very stark that other approaches or the opposite approach um is not the way to go. An approach which um allows freedom, an approach which encourages people to just do whatever they want, which could include activities, behaviors, lives, lifestyles which are not consistent with the Ben Torah, but we just that approach talks about validating and love and hearing the story of the other and making space and allowing each person to be themselves and >> beautiful. >> And you found you sounded um you reacted to that. And you thought a yeshiva or an environment is not the place that allows for that. You even used some some strong language which I'm curious whether you would do it differently if you knew it'd get out or say some things differently. >> to say about that. Which which I I didn't know we were going there, but we can go there. >> only with your permission. We don't we don't have to. We don't have to. And I don't want to make it about that because it happens to be that I know all the parties and they love each other and respect and admire each other. So what this isn't about Right. Right. Right. >> some people like to create machlokes where there isn't any. This is l'shem shamayim, different approaches and different views. We've recently heard the other approach significantly and there's a piece which is compelling Right. >> and speaks to us and resonates particularly for this generation, but I think the counterbalance is important. So tell us where you were coming from. Did you know it'd get out? What was the reaction or response and >> with with that. Did I know it'd get out? I I I was talking to my talmidim. I my intention was to speak to them. It was short-sighted to not think that it was going to become somewhat viral, but my intention was never to hurt anybody for Shalom. And definitely not to criticize anybody. If you listen carefully, I believe I did not negate that approach. All I said is that there's room for another approach. And I said there's different lanes. There's two different lanes. And as long as we can agree that there's two different approaches, I think that approach is beautiful. It's and it's healthy. It's healing for some people. Some people need that. There are people that can't deal with with pressure. They or they interpret it as pressure. I'll give you an example. There was a boy who was struggling in Yeshiva. He wasn't feeling well. One day he was in He was in his room. Now he was At the time we had a dormitory which was a block around the corner. So I told the boy, "Call him. Tell him I'm coming to visit him." I wanted to show him like I care about him. So I told him call him first so that way if there's any He doesn't feel like I'm like, you know, you know, just uh Spot-checking him. Exactly. Call him and tell him to get a picture on his wall. I said like, "Hey, where's the picture from?" He was in He was on a boat. You know, where were you? He calls his father. His father comes in. He says, "The rabbi came and interrogated me." I was like, "Okay, this is not going to work. Right. It's not going to work. I'm too strong of a personality for him. He's in the wrong place. And it's not because he's not a good boy. It's not because It's just he can't For him He interpreted that as interrogation. And that was love. And and it was I was trying so hard to like show him like I'm I'm here for you. And I And he and he went somewhere else. And that and that was good for him. And I agree that there's a total there's a totally different approach which is important, critical. And and and and and it works. And and it it's effective. However, for a person that doesn't need that approach, if you don't need that approach, then that approach is selling yourself short. And I try to have a lot of expectations of myself. I I and I try to I try and I think that that's healthy for me and and I can be disappointed in myself. I think Busha it says it's swallowed by shame and Busha comes from an expectation of Breuer in his safer Hamussar says comes from you have an expectation of yourself. And when we just say, you know, whatever you do is good, there's no expectation, there's no Busha. And some people might need that because they need to heal and anything more than that is going to cause them to trigger or cause That's for one group of people and I respect it and I admire it and I for sure admire the people that are that are big tzadikim that are that are involved in that. Is what is what got that reaction from you the sense that you might have perceived that that approach was projecting that every Yeshiva should have it and so your reaction response was no, that's appropriate in the right place, the right people, but there is another mix space for another >> I was just trying to make space for what we're doing. That that that the the the tellmidim and the alumni shouldn't feel like okay, so we're what are we doing? Like who are we? If we're we're doing this all wrong, it's like this is not wrong. This is I think um what I think is the traditional approach and I think that the other approach is a necessary approach under the circumstances of what's happening, but it's definitely I think, you know, not the tradition. How's a young man supposed to decipher between those two approaches because if you put those two options in front of a person one sounds, you know, expectations and pushing and stretching and and one is validating love. So there are many teenagers that would look at those and say, hey, you know, one sounds really nice. Like I'm not going to be stretched. You know, how do you get a kid to buy in to what you describe so beautifully as like the beauty of challenging yourself and the beauty of growth when someone might not be mature enough to understand that language or coming into Yeshiva might not understand how beneficial that's going to be for them. Yeah. That's That's part of the danger of the other approach. There was a boy who I was asked to get involved with. He was in Arutz 7 at the time was Rabbi Meir Balag HaNess. And so someone called me and said, "Can you help this boy? He's a lost soul." And I took him to a bunch of different yeshivas. He's looking at this yeshiva, that yeshiva. And someone told him about a program, a yeshiva program, where you learn for seder in a shul and then you do whatever you want in the afternoon. He ended up there. And I met with the person who had the program. I was like, "He was going to go to yeshiva." He's like, "He told me he's not going to yeshiva." I said, "That's because if this is an option, he's not going to yeshiva. But when I was a kid, my mom didn't give me options. And growing up, and to be honest, I'm going to be honest, there was It was very tempting. A lot of things that other people were doing, places people were going, and my mom's like, "You're not going there." And as a teenager, I wanted that. And I have my mom to thank that I am where I am. And it part of that was if I would have been given the option to go to different places, different things, I would have definitely jumped on it as an immature child. But there's an element of a risk because, you know, when you push, it's the delicate bird. Right. >> So, there's the element you're going to squash the bird. Right. >> So, some reacted like you did, which was I was pushed, there were expectations, I didn't have choices, and I rose to that, and I'm so grateful for that. And in my own ways, with my own family, I feel that, too. Um but other people would be like, "I did it cuz I had to, but I resented it the entire time, and the second I got out of there, I ran so far as far as I could, as fast as I could." >> Absolutely, you're right. >> there that risk? >> There is that risk, 100%. And you said everyone that goes to our yeshiva like lights up. I I wish it would be everybody. I can't say it's everybody. There are people that didn't feel like they belong. And there's some people who I begged to leave. I'm like, "This is not good for you. This is too much for you." And I tell them, "I don't think that you're going to thrive here." Sometimes they do. Sometimes, for whatever reason, social pressure, or uh they can't do it. But this for sure there I don't think there's any perfect one system that's perfect for everyone and The key is to recognize different options. Now, Right. uh and I want to move on from that shmooze, but I think in that shmooze I think you said something and you you'll stop me if you if we don't want to go there, but I think you thought it was important for a yeshiva to know who they are and who they're not. Right. And that yeshiva in some ways you felt maybe doesn't. And I think you said about your yeshiva like I know we're not Brisk. I think was maybe the lashon. It was interesting that a talmid of that yeshiva I think was the most offended about that, said to me, "How could he say to his guys they're not Brisk? Like, if he believes in his guys they're they're the shpitz, they're the greatest. They needs to be Brisk. They're greater than Brisk." And our yeshiva should should embed in their guys. So, it that was Israel more defensive for your own talmidim than they were even offended like, "Why would he say to his own talmidim they're not Brisk?" But is that part of the hashkafa? That's you need to know who you are and who you're not and not measure or compete or compare. And also it's okay you're not Brisk. You're not supposed to be Brisk. And was that part of the approach and that what you meant by that? Yeah, I I I think Reb Moshe Feinstein speaks about it's it's basic about Moshe and Aaron and Moshe that Rashi says there's shkulum. And Moshe asks, "What do you mean there's shkulum?" Moshe Rabbeinu was the komi shulkomi shuloid. He said each person is doing his thing and by Kodesh Boruchu that's very chovev. So, it doesn't mean that I can learn as well as as Moshe or I can be a novi as well as Moshe. I got to do what's right for me. And and this is right. So, the learning in Brisk is on a very very high level. It's a super high level. Does that mean that Brisk has more nachas ruach? It's actually Boruchu, no. There's one of the Brisk yeshivas the son-in-law told me. He said, "I don't know if Hashem is more nachas ruach from our yeshiva or Rabbi Senter's yeshiva." Mhm. And I'll say, "I don't know if Hashem is more nachas ruach from what I'm doing to what any other yeshiva." I was not really directing at any one specific yeshiva and though maybe some people took it more personally. But I'm not saying that I that I know that I'm God's gift to anything. Every- everyone's got to do their thing and just you know, I'm trying to serve Hashem in the way that I feel is good for my talmidim. And and it's olam hafuch, who knows? Who knows? And just because Brisk is on a high level of learning, does that mean it's a it's a bigger nachas ruach to Hashem? I I didn't mean that. Right. This is going to be a different question than I think we've ever asked before, but I'm curious, partially because I'm going through the parsha of sending a a son to Yeshiva as well, but how how do you bring the parents along? Part of what I think made me so successful in my transition when I went to Eretz Yisrael and and became more serious was that I I always felt that my parents were not just in line with the Yeshiva, but fully supportive of the trajectory and the changes in the mission, and I never felt that there was like any tension between what my parents were telling me, what my shul rabbi was telling me, what my rabbeim were telling me. Is that a challenge in Yeshiva as you help a guy guy grow and you push them? How do you bring the parents along also and make sure that a a child doesn't sense that there's tension between the rebbe and their parent, but that everyone is pushing them in the direction of spiritual growth and connection to Hashem, because that's the healthier way to do it. Right, absolutely. So, first of all, we do have zooms with the parents where I speak to the parents and try to update them on what's happening in Yeshiva. And and I tell them and I tell the boys, I feel like I am their parents' a shaliach. I'm I'm representing the parents, and I think the parents are very important. There's only one situation where it where it gets sticky. Because I I I am not really trying to push an agenda, whether it's Yeshiva, college, work. I'm not that's not what I'm trying to do. I want people to have Hashem as their forefront, and shiviti Hashem l'negdi samid, whatever Hashem, you know, whatever Hashem wants. If you think that's what Hashem wants, I'm good with that. The only case where it gets sticky is when a child doesn't feel like a parent is doing what's in their best interest and the parent is unhealthy or having an unhealthy approach to That's where it's hard because I have a hard time telling a boy you have to respect your parents if he feels like Yeah, but my parents are not are not doing what's in my best interest. If a parent is more modern or more Yeshivish or more whatever, okay, you grew up in this family, your parents they took care of you. You have to respect what their wishes. But there are times when the child feels like I don't feel like this is really my parents caring about me. And then then then it can get a little comfortable. I thought you were going in a different direction which was as a Russia Yeshiva of a post high school college Yeshiva what guidance would you give parents given the strong feelings you have of the resilience, the different models um separate but but equal and everyone finding what's right. What should they do to make sure that their child What should What should each bocher do to make sure he's in the right Yeshiva and parents help guide them to the right Yeshiva. What should they be looking at? Is it meeting with the Russia Yeshiva? Is it asking specific questions and what would those questions look like? Do you encourage people to come there to sit and sit and try and stay a day in the basement of the Yeshiva and share Can you help me choose a Yeshiva for my son next year? Okay, yeah, >> [laughter] >> I'll do that. Okay, yeah, I'll do that right now. Okay, I could do that. But all But all parents. All parents. First of all, I do encourage parents to come. I think it's great to come to get a feel for the Yeshiva. I feel like you could sense if this is if this feels right. I think it's very important more than anything else because um I met today with some boys. They asked me the difference between our Yeshiva and a different Yeshiva. I'm like, I don't know that Yeshiva. So, how am I supposed to tell you the difference between, you know, cuz I know what it was like 3 years ago? I can't tell you really and I don't even know if boys can tell you better but they can really only tell you about the Yeshiva that they're in. They can't tell you about the other Yeshiva cuz they don't really know. But going there and feeling it for yourself, and you know, interacting and seeing if this feels comfortable, I think is the best way to choose your Yeshiva. Got it? There you go. Okay, we're going to Israel next week, so I'll uh But I will tell you I once this is maybe just me going off topic a little bit. Hope it's okay. Sure. One thing that one thing >> First of all, you could you could put me on a hot seat if you want. Oh, good. Okay, I'm happy to happy to hear that. Cuz I want to hear about your experience in Teaneck. Before before um the biggest mistake I think parents make, this is not going to be popular, is um coming to visit their children in Eretz Yisrael. Mhm. I think that is the biggest mistake parents make. And I see it over and over again. And they they think a lot of times parents will be like, "Oh, my son's going to Israel in 5 years, or in 2 years, or that's when we're going to go to Eretz Yisrael." That is the worst time to come to Eretz Yisrael. I spoke to other Yeshivas, COVID was everyone's best year. Mhm. Because Yeshivas were on lockdown, parents weren't coming. >> Yeah, that's not going to be very popular, by the way. It's [laughter] not I know that's not going to be popular, but I got to say >> Most of the hotels the hotels are coming at you. I got to I got to just say the way it is. Now, you could do it right. It's hard to do it right. But part of the problem is they come during the zman, they take their kids, we're going to go away for a couple of days, and then and then they take their friends out for dinner, and like boys don't need it. Yeshivas are taking care of boys, the food's fine. Yeshivas are giving boys good food, and if they need to eat something they go around the corner get a shawarma. They don't have to go you know, away, and they and they literally in their head they're out of Yeshiva. And then they got to come back, and everyone else is still like going full force, and all of a sudden I'm coming back in and we're and they lose themselves, and then they stumble, and they don't know why it's not working, and I I I I like anticipate it's not a happy thing to be anticipating, but you're waiting for it to happen when parents come. >> the end of visiting day. Yeah. End of visiting day is the most miserable night of the year. >> Exactly. Exactly. kid >> so happy now he's like, "I want to go home with you. Exactly. Right. Exactly. Now, sometimes they have to come. So, I tell them there's there there are better times to come. Sukkot is a great time. Hanukkah is a good time cuz anyway, you know, you're a little thrown off in Hanukkah anyway a little bit. But, sometimes they come in the middle of the zman. They come for a week, a week and a half. And they want to see their kids and and uh it >> What if a father wants to come learn in the Yeshiva? Is that create as much of a break or Way better. Way better. For sure. That's another thing. We We encourage them. We have like a week of Yarchei Kallah where alumni come back. And we encourage the fathers to come. Then also to come to sit in the Beit Midrash, to to interact and to experience what his son's experiencing. For sure. Now, when the war broke out, we were in touch because you took upon yourself that there were some of the displaced families who were near the Yeshiva. And you were raising funds and you were organizing the bochurim to an extent >> Yes. to uh help facilitate, I remember, laundry machines. I think you were buying washing machines, dryers. We did a lot. We did a lot. an enormous amount. And there's some Yeshivas that that didn't appear on the radar. Our job is just to keep our heads in the Gemara. That's the best contribution we can make. Certainly, it's a hardcore Yeshiva that's centered on Torah, pun intended, I guess. But, um but also felt very much the pulse of Klal Yisrael. And if there are displaced families and Hashem put them right next to us, among us, we've got to do something about it. Where did that come from? Could you describe that a little bit? And and were you concerned, by the way, in a world in which your Yeshiva gets labeled, you're trying to belong in a certain space, you know, were you were you concerned that doing that could disrupt that? I couldn't be concerned. It was just too powerful for me. It was very powerful experience. I mean, the whole war was a very powerful experience, but my grandfather, Mr. Rosenbaum, who you don't remember, or you didn't really meet. Could be you didn't meet him. Um he was in North Bergen, New Jersey. He used to go knock on the doors of the Jewish families. Can I take your son to shul? And he brought like all the kids to shul and children that we're still in touch with today are from because of my grand my grandfather. Wow. Reb Zalman Auerbach I know I have a friend who's he climbed up there was no elevators. He'd climb up like you know to the top of an apartment building in Boston knocking on the doors, you know, trying to convince people to send their son to Yeshiva. This is what I was brought up with. And and being part of the the Rosenbaum Yeshiva of North Jersey um that was part of our legacy of like not just being you know, thinking about yourself and and I felt it's so important to teach the boys to think out of yourself. And when we had this opportunity across the street from us it was around 5,000 um of those people that were displaced. I thought it was such an opportunity to show them something and I talked talked to them about Reb Chaim Kanievsky and I read to them from Reb Chaim Kanievsky's works about how he would always care about people and even though he was the greatest masmid. But when he had a shiur that he thought he read, there's a story that in the book about him that he he climbed on the roof of Letterman shul um because he wanted to read the shiur and he didn't wait. He couldn't wait till the person to come down like here's Reb Chaim Kanievsky climbing on the roof cuz I have a shiur and and he made the shiur. Right. He made that shiur. Because gedolim and Reb Dovid is for sure that way. My rebbe Reb Dovid Klein for sure cares about Klal Yisrael in a such a profound way. And and we need to get out of ourselves. I thought that was I couldn't I it was impossible for me to to not think in those terms. It helped the displaced families, but did you see the impact also on the bochurim themselves, on the boys themselves? I hope so. I definitely I I definitely that's that was a lot of my intention also and I felt that they need this is part of their chinuch. Um and um to teach them to to to to think about Klal Yisrael and to be community oriented and um and uh it was uncomfortable and it was hard for them. And we cut the dining room in half. They cut their their their area outside. They they were it was they were being deprived a little bit and that's all part of being uncomfortable and understanding that that's part of my job. It's not just everything should just be comfortable and everything should be as easy as possible. Mhm. And I do think that many of them grew from it. You know, we also we would get up 5:00 in the morning on Friday and go to the south to help the inner workers. And it was very hard for them. Like, you know, and some of them most of the time it was voluntary. And they you know, wake up, we'd davenate, and then we'd go down south and you know, and do whatever pick flowers or whatever it was to do. And I felt that that was that was part of the chinuch. And it's also teaching them resilience and that's going to make them better tell me the chachana. You know, so much of this conversation what you're describing is nuanced. But we live in a world that's very binary. Yeah. You're either this or you're that. This is good, this is bad, this is evil that including videos that have come out recently about certain ways of practicing Judaism versus other ways of practicing Judaism and one is right and one is wrong. Right. Obviously anyone would understand that it depends on the person, that there's a lot of gray area in between. But we live in a society that's lost sight of gray area. >> Right, everyone should understand that. >> Everyone should understand that. So how do you teach that? Because I think we feel that even in our shul where the things that have become much more binary, politically, religiously, we go over what we're talking about shidduchim before. You look at shidduchim, it's like this, that, like very quickly we box people in and we So how do you introduce nuance in a way that stays true to your hashkafa, to religion, to Torah, but also help the guys understand that within and choose from different areas without compromising who you are. Right. So I think that's part of the beauty of growing up in Teaneck, New Jersey. Um my neighbor, his name was Hill Schuster. Sure. Hill went to Gush. And I went to Torah Vodaath. And we stayed friends. We're still friends. And it was three houses away. And and we were, you know, and we were close, but, you know, in Eretz Yisrael, part of the challenges Hill, I think, lives in Hashmonaim. I live in Ramat Eshkol. So, when I went to Hashmonaim for Shabbos to visit Hill, I was the only black hat in the shul. I was probably the only jacket in the shul. I think the rabbi wasn't wearing a jacket, you know. Um and when Hill came to visit us, his kids were like, we were walking through the parking [laughter] lot, his kids were like, "Abba, there are so many Chareidim here." I And that's what happens when you're when you when because our we're getting bigger, so we have an entire tzibbur of just my type of people, and anything that's just not like me, you know, is becomes uncomfortable or becomes like weird almost. And that's part of the challenge that we have as we're getting bigger, but I feel like I I got that in Teaneck. I got a lot of the the ability to appreciate and to respect. And I have tell me that went to the army. I know my boys will I will when they come in, we'll celebrate their contribution, even though I don't think it's for everybody, but there's something beautiful that he's doing. And we have to learn how to respect that. And I'll bring people that will even come speak in the Yeshiva that are not necessarily 100% aligned with exactly where we are, but there's something that can be learned from him. And I and I try to uh to to teach them that we can we can gain like you exactly what you're saying from part of who this person is, even though we have certain differences. And that's all part of the education. And it takes time. It's it's a process because has to sink in. We're so grateful for your time, Rabbi Sentor, to Yeshiva. I'll ask you one last question. If you had a magic wand and you could wave it and change anything about shidduchim, what would you change? That's a good question. I like that one. Thank you. Yeah, that's the first time you've asked. That is. Can you ask the question again? The shidduch process, it's become much more complicated, much more layered. We've introduced all new sort of rules, regulations that I'm not aware of any similar shulchan aruch that has um and it doesn't seem like it's working because it's more complicated, there's a greater disparity between the boys who have long piles of resumes and the pick of the litter and aren't even necessarily even getting back to the people making suggestions. Many of the young ladies who are waiting by the phone and they don't get it as much. There's all kinds of rules that are so different and and that are being added from the interrogations of reference checks, not like the Russia Shiva's interrogation, like a real interrogation, of reference checks, of of resumes, words that didn't exist when we were younger, a system that didn't exist when we were younger. And if all that netted smoother sailing and happier marriages and a quicker process, it'd be great, but it seems like it's happened the opposite is coming. So, it's a complicated system and parts of it aren't going to change and much of it is wonderful and good and is part of the fabric of klal Yisrael and has been here for a long time. So, knowing your talmidim, ushering them through the process, if you had a wand and you can change something about the system, if you could wind back the clock and say, "Let's take that out." Are there anythings that come to mind? I'm back from a uh I don't think the system is broken. So, we might have a little disagreement over here. Okay. Um I think there's a lot of problems, but I don't think it's the the system, I think it's what's going into the system. That's the problem. And my personal opinion. And again, I'm also on the boy's side, so I'm even though I have daughters. Right. And and uh I've been through the shidduch process on that end, it's brutal. Um but I think that our problem is really with our with our culture, not with our shidduch system. So, when you put unhealthy, you know, feeds into the system, then it doesn't doesn't work well. So, what do you mean by that? What's going in as opposed to the system? What I mean is that I I think that I personally think background checks are very good. I think it's I I So, yeah. I have an answer now. Okay, I have an answer. Uh I think background checks are very good. I think finding out more about who you're getting involved in, I think it's super important to understand mental health. But how Give me examples of Maybe we should have done this earlier when we still have plenty of time. >> this earlier. What are healthy questions that you'll get legitimate and valuable answers? I get questions all the time. Right. >> I'm on many, many, many resumes. Right. And I can tell you I'm asked questions that there's no way I can or should give an answer to. I don't have access to that information. If I did, it was confidential and be inappropriate to share. >> Right. So, the whole process or so many of the questions, one of the projects that for a long time I've wanted to work on is to work with people, yourself and others, and say, "Let's give parents these are legitimate, reasonable, and productive questions >> right now. Let's do it right now. What are the legitimate questions >> are the good questions to ask? Because when someone says, "Is there any mental health problems in the family? Are you aware of any medications that are on Like, these are all questions that as a rav, if I knew and I'm not talking about something like they're they're schizophrenic, they're bipolar, something that is clearly part of their life, their identity, everyone knows it's been part of their childhood. If there's something confidential and private, Yes, you're going to share it with some stranger that you >> Right, right, I'm not. And And I'll tell you something even more complicated than that. >> Yeah. Unless Well, I'm sorry, one more part of that. >> No problem. I know that Gedolei Yisrael and major poskim tell the people themselves, the young man or the young woman, that they don't have to reveal it until date number different poskim four, five, six. So, the young person shouldn't reveal it until date whatever, but either of should beforehand. Right. How does that make sense? >> Right. Right. So, let me ask you a question. Someone gets involved in a shidduch Well, let me let me start here. I was talking to Dr. David Lieberman. Are you familiar with that name? >> Sure. I said to him, "I have a theory that 99% of all divorces boil down to mental health issues." And he said to me, "What's the other 1%?" So, I said, "The other 1% is sometimes there's people forced into getting married that never should have gotten married in the first place." I said, "Okay, I hear that." He said, "But yes, absolutely." So, what happens when a a nice boy or a nice girl happens on both sides? Meets a guy and he holds it together for like eight dates and then all of a sudden they're married and and he's a train wreck. Or she's impossible. I mean, that's it's a nightmare. It's true, but a lot of times there were people who were dishonest along the process. So, those situations also had the reference checks. And sometimes, cuz I've been involved in these, it's even the rebbe or rosh yeshiva said, "Yeah, he's an excellent bochur. He's wonderful. He's great." When the truth is, he couldn't get him out of bed. He disappeared for long periods of time. He didn't get along with the others. And they said, "Yeah, he's wonderful." Because they feel that's loyal to my bochur. And that lasted eight days and then it disappeared. >> sure, but I think it all boils down to mental health. At the end of the day, I think it boils down to mental health. Cuz if she and if the two of them like each other and they're healthy, they'll work it out. I agree, but I think that the system actually discourages mental hygiene. And what I mean is instead of going for help or taking the medication >> what they do. >> avoids it because when the question will be asked and the phone call will come in, they want to be able to say no. >> Right. Even though we both know there's barely anyone who's not on some low dose of an anxiety medication >> Right. or an Or going for therapy. >> for therapy, which are healthy things, but the system is actually discouraging that so that you can say later >> That's exactly what I meant. When you go back to to I said, that I think that the problem is the people going into the system. I don't think the shidduch system is the problem. I think it's that people are not really taking care of their mental health, you said. So, we could agree that No, we can't agree. We agree that that the system is not inherently bad, but maybe and maybe we'll work on this not now. You you I know when you set your mind you get these incredible projects done, klal Yisrael projects, and this could be one. I'd love to get a diverse range of influence, rabbonim, maybe others, even shadchanim who say, "This is a we sign on that these are the questions." This is one one of my dreams is that I would love to say, "Here are the questions I'll answer." So, if I'm on a resume and you call me, I want to tell you an answer. >> wish someone asked you? I would I wish they would ask me more about middos. They ask me like some list. I don't know who prepared the list, but it has in my mind many of the wrong questions about it. But, I wish they would ask I I wish they would ask um "Is there example of this person being flexible, being mevater? Is the person open to influence, or do they do things always their way?" Um those kinds of questions would you be honest? You would be honest. I'll tell you why. Because I think that there are some responses you could have to these questions which are not categorically good or bad. They're just different personalities. And you know, so there are some, right? Sometimes somebody's outgoing, somebody's somebody's a little shy. Sometimes somebody's this, sometimes somebody's that. So, we need the questions that will reveal the different personalities that are neither good or bad, but are different. And not the questions which are essentially trying to be detectives that say, "These things are all bad, and I'm going to ask you them to try to find Right, the the premise of the questions are, "You're hiding something. There's something bad here. Let me ask so I can figure out what it is." >> ask you a question. That's that's my experience. There's a boy whose um his orientation is questionable. What would you say if someone asked you that question? Asked you about him. So, before I would get a phone call, I would actually try to interact with the boy and maybe his family to understand, coach, establish where he's at. >> Right. And if I didn't have full confidence that there was honesty, transparency, or he's not really there, um I don't know that I could fully vouch for him because I wouldn't want to set that recipe up for disaster. How exactly to react or what to say? Right, so it's complicated. It's very similar with with a mental health, isn't it? It's the you're dealing with someone who's not capable of being married. Now, if they're on medication, I got you. You're saying that if they're stable, they're on their medication, everything's stable and great. But someone who's not who's not healthy and not >> people are That's my It's a legitimate question, but I It's not posed in a way that's going to get an honest answer. If someone appears on a resume, they're already in the corner of the person whose resume they're on. So, that's actually my biggest advice is you should be getting reference calls, but not to anyone on the resume. Find out other people who know them, and then you'll get the true story. But when you call someone on the resume, are they really going to say, right? We don't have friends on a resume. Are friends going to reveal that? I don't think they're mentally healthy. >> know it. They may not even know it. >> They might probably want to The rabbi? Rabbi's going to do that to the Talmud and say, "I don't think they're marriage material. They're not mentally stable and healthy." >> Show rabbi? Show rabbi's going to say that? I don't think they're marriage material. They're not mentally healthy and stable. So, you're right. It's something important to find out beforehand, but who on that resume and what in this process is going to reveal that? That's my issue with it. So, my issue is if there's if there's one thing I could change is somehow find a way that make sure that we're that everyone that's getting into the marriage process is marriage material. Figure out how to do that cuz I think that that's the biggest problem that we're having. Now, that's not a shidduch crisis. That's a shalom bayit crisis. I agree. We're in total agreement and we share the same magic wand. And and another thing which I would want to do is get rid of the pictures because I think >> Nix the pics. >> Nix the pics, yes. Because you know what I'm speaking to the boys about a little bit is that um are you looking for a meaningful relationship and you're trying to see whether or not the person is attractive enough for you or you're looking for someone who's attractive and then you're going to try to see if like the relationship works. You start the very first thing is about is about attraction which doesn't have to do with a relationship. You're just starting in the wrong direction. I just feel like it's starting with a wrong wrong way. I wish we had two more hours to talk about you We're going to have to have you back at the Y so the next alumni Shabbaton or the next recruiting trip then we'll see when you can come. >> me? Why don't you come do it by me? >> Okay, we'll do it at the Y. At the Y, yeah. We're coming. We're >> Depending on Yeah, depending on We'll leave it to Hashem but we'll see when things happen but we want to thank you for your time going behind the Bima. Thank you for going to some uncomfortable places even but I think it's all tremendous Torah and example and lessons to learn and we're grateful for it. >> my students to be uncomfortable I got to do it myself, right? >> answer. Thank you so much. Thank you for listening [music] to Behind the Bima. If you enjoyed the show, please subscribe, rate, and review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. We'll see you next week for another peek behind the Bima. >> [music]