Q&A With Rabbi Efrem Goldberg (Hosted by Nachi Gordon) - Part 10

what's going on everybody it's been it's been a minute it's been a little bit it's been quite the while uh what a month maybe more it's been quite quite a while but we're so happy i'm so happy to be back here going to you um and let's not waste any time let's just uh hey goldberg how are you good to see you can hear me see you as well how are you great can you hear you it's buffering a little bit it is let me go off the one brs wi-fi is not top-notch i'm very shocked how's that any better that's better there we go okay good we'll leave it to atm t to take us through we have two questions in the question box already one of them says so i think they want i think i'm not even sure should we should we just start singing them that's not this type of you want if you want everyone to leave if you want there to be just me and you or harusa i will sing but it's somebody who knows that mancomp is my uh my go-to and then someone else wrote hey how you doing long time man how you doing welcome welcome okay so it's been it's been a while um but i'm glad to be here glad to do this again and oh boy a lot has happened since the last time we did this for those who are watching for the first time or maybe you haven't watched in a while um we do a question answer this is not you know for me to ask the questions i have on my mind we're here to ask questions that are in your mind so you can go ahead and just write a write a question um here in the right over there that question mark you put a question there you can comment it and we will address it but let's get the ball rolling so a lot has happened since the last time we did the server goldberg the world has changed drastically in those few weeks it seems um i'm going to ask a pretty particular question and not to get you know into all the details and say right wrong this that i think everyone with seychelles knows knows the answer to that but there seems to be a lot of confusion in the response to the client walder situation there are very very respected individuals on both sides saying different things so you'll have rabbi a there's a huge following who's very respected who people look up to saying you know things on one perspective then you have rabbi b saying things in defense or saying things you know what i'm saying there are two different sides people who are you know what let's talk about this the abuse happened and there are people who are saying wait a minute well we don't know every we don't know everything that happened so let's just and that could be very confusing i think it's confusing disappointing how can somebody sort of understand that respectable people rabunam big big people um both sides of the fence how do we how do we figure that out well it's great to be together again thank you for doing this and hosting this i always enjoy our time together and i'll give the disclaimer that i always give i don't have all the answers i don't necessarily have the right answers i can only share with you what i think what i've learned what i've received from my rebate this is a complicated question it's a difficult question in many ways it's not complicated in the sense that while at first when this news broke which some knew for a long time and for others it was raw and fresh there was confusion and there was mixed reaction but as time has gone on i have seen the overwhelming response being with clarity that we know who he was and what he did that there's no longer questions or doubts about that there is no shine there's not a question about la shanhara gossip and slander are serious prohibitions they don't apply in this case in fact it's a major post-sake in israel who spoke about this he said it's not a child of lashana it's a sharla of bitters man if you're talking about this just to hack about it if you're talking about it without any productive goal if it's not healing or therapeutic if it's not to formulate a plan to protect people going forward if it's not to validate or stand up for victims if it's stim simply hawk for the sake of hak it's not a question of lash and hara it's a question of wasting time so what i've seen what i've heard the people i admire and look at and listen to is unequivocal i think it's been very clear that we know who he was and what he did we don't have sympathy for him in his life or the way he ended it that it's a hundred percent now about the victims standing for them it's about evaluating what went wrong and how we can ensure that that doesn't happen again and i could start to rattle off the names of major post major torah personalities who've been unequivocally clear about this from a berkowitz tour of david cohn to countless godola israel toro masora who conferred with their uh gedom with their rabbis who today put out a statement saying again there's no doubt it's unequivocally clear what he did and that it's not a question of lashanara but they were addressing how we speak to young people about it so even within that there still have been some disappointed voices there have been people who have i think missed the boat who have focused on the wrong things who have tried to pivot or change the conversations in ways that are unhelpful at best and downright damaging or painful or insensitive at worst and i think the answer if you read revlon's article already in in mishpacha this week you know he talks about there is no group called zarabonim we like to live in some worlds of make-believe that says what does das torah say about x y or z and as much as there is an element of a hierarchy we definitely not all rabbis are created equal just like in medicine or any other arena not everybody is an equal level expert um not all rabbis are created equal we have our guido easter we have our great rabbis we have those that we turn to we have authority in different areas we have bali misora those who are responsible for protecting and transmitting things in the generation not all rabbis are created equal but there is no institution of the rabbinate there's no institution of golem there's no institution of somebody that takes a vote and speaks with one voice so the fact that there might be elements and i believe that they are a minority right now who are missing the vote or getting it wrong um is is disappointing it's frustrating can be very painful for people who are going through a particular issue but i think at this point we should rally around the majority voice of our guidoli israel who've spoken very clearly on on who hein walder was on what he did on the way he ended his life with his narcissism and selfishness um on his riches on his pure wickedness that there is not a prohibition of rashanara in saying so and saying so unequivocally um and channeling all of this pain and all the shock to really addressing how we can going forward learn from this what are the systems what are the boundaries what are the behaviors and policies that we need to put in place to protect people and how do we stand with and for victims at this time so so to some of your answers you sort of let's um focus on um you know the the rabbanam who are who are answering now who are saying that what he did was wrong it's not lost something that we could acknowledge and speak about we um i mean for a minute we had a few videos that were posted on our app today from a few individuals uh the other night over huawei jacobson today we have sevenchuchon addressing this topic a lot of a lot of comments were very mixed um people saying how lashing hara and this and that and obviously people are fighting back so here we are again as claudius earl sort of divided now we can say that one side is smaller than the other side but nonetheless um it's a very painful battle it's a very painful war how like how do we make sense of this like there are not there are people who are standing on the tower and saying what you're doing is wrong it's allah it's allah there are very few standing up saying that there are fewer infused some have even tried to attract or tried to pivot and change what they were saying i'm not really aware of major personalities that we admire and respect who are arguing or taking that position right now but doctor you're addressing what i think is the bigger picture i've been thinking a lot about this the last couple of days i was talking to somebody i admire a mechanic today who was telling me that he's thinking about leaving twitter he's thinking about walking away from the social media world because you know the noise and the um everybody having a way in all the time in real time on everything and debate and listen and quote and post and tweet it's overwhelming and it's increasing anxiety the noise it's robbing us of our manuka and it's really not contributing what does it do to enter the arena of this battle and of this war and so i think that really what we all need to do and i'm telling you for myself because i i feel myself getting sucked into it following and tweeting and posting and reading and wondering and kind of everyone's got their score card who lines up where on which side and everyone's kind of posting they got it right i actually saw people who are giving grades this statement was a b minus this was an a this is a c plus and i don't know that claudius hashem is waiting for our help to sit you know like the olympics holding up the judges you know the chinese judge like what is this rabbi or this god this woman or this we should find the leaders who we believe best represent us speak for us inspire us we should listen to what they have to say and shut everything else out there's no benefit or gain from maintaining the scorecard from keeping the spreadsheet or matrix from weighing in and playing catcher and gotcha from virtue signaling to i want the world to know that i get it and i let them know i get it by pointing out all the people who don't get it i'm not sure that's going to in the end of the day constructively contribute to the conversation there are a lot of people who confuse outrage with action what we need now is action we need real action we need real um protection policies protocols education we need real um systems we need real sympathy and empathy for victims so the outrage is meaningful if the outrage inspires action but outrage for the sake of outrage is toxic and it eats at a person so i i i hear you know somebody who's following the scorecard you know it's like they're at a baseball game and they're keeping track of the score card and what player and what's their batting average i don't know that claustro or hashem need our help with that i think we should be informed i'm not suggesting that we bury our head but then we choose already we choose our teacher we choose our role model we choose our inspiration we choose somebody who's credible and competent and who's deserving of our choosing them and we listen to them and we get back to what we have to do and i think all of this creates a huge upheaval of a lot of noise but i'm not sure the topless of how much is achieved i i i understand agree with and i understand what you're saying um i'll tell you even from let's say the seat that i sit in and many like me who have platforms and and even people who don't have platforms um there are there's an immense pressure to weigh in uh if you don't weigh in within the first 48 hours of something like this happening all of a sudden your phone number is on the internet with call them and threaten them call them and cancel them so whereas i agree with you um that the way in culture is is scary it's detrimental it's forcing everybody to have an opinion when they don't necessarily have all the facts or they don't even have let's say forget about the facts because we know what happened here but let's say they're just not competent to to like to be talking on this issue or to be saying something about this you know so but then all of a sudden it's it's a vicious cycle they don't say something you know i saw this week i saw already call up yated ami mishpacha and demand it's in this week's issue i mean they all addressed it in this week's issue it wasn't the first 12 minutes when this thing happened so they took the time and they wanted to make sure that they're putting out a you know something a good product and i obviously i did not i really love beyonce's piece but i didn't read the piece and army yet but i'm sure they did a good job but like this this pressure and this this behavior of just going with like the torches and the pitchforks and trying to just cancel and ruin everybody doesn't speak up right away i think that's something that's been exposed throughout this whole process and like what do we do about that that's really it's an unsettling thing even for the seat i sit in as as part of meaningful minute it's such a it's such a like non-stop how many messages come in are you gonna address it what are you gonna say why are you not saying anything right right i couldn't agree with you more there's an online mob mentality the mom mentality is that you you know i learned this new lingo i didn't know what these words meant nobody used the language virtue signal when i was young you didn't go to school and virtue signal someone you don't go to camp and virtually signal someone you didn't play ball after school and virtual signals sounded good virtue signal something like a clothing brand virtue signal it would be a good one but that's today right you i learned that language yeah you virtue how do you virtual signal when you're online weighing in when you're the scorekeeper when you're the policeman when you're grading and evaluating where everyone stands you're virtue signaling that i care about that issue subtleties lost nuance is lost like you just said and you said it very well taking time to digest is very lost you know i remember when i first came on the social media world and some of these people and these personalities have disappeared from the scene or slowed down or i guess have gone to other things but i remember there were people that something would happen in the world and there'd be an article or a tweet or a post within minutes and the notion that like having a sunim bedin like sit sit on it think about it davin on it consult on it process it the world doesn't allow us to process the world doesn't allow us you know the way this statement was written you have reason sometimes you success a blank space and then it continues on the same line sometimes you have blank space and it continues in the next line it's because moshar banu said hashem can we pause i want to think about i want to absorb what you just told me and then we'll continue there's a notion of absorbing there's a notion of processing there's a notion of trying to make sense and formulate an opinion and so on so i'm not saying that you know so someone's going to jump at me right now and say what do you have to process about a pedophile and a predator you don't have to process that someone's evil and wicked but this processing that says one second how do we know that who was in charge have they put out a statement what am i meant to do with that information how does it make me feel what action should i take you don't have the answers to that in milliseconds seconds or minutes or even or even if you let's say you do like you mentioned well well let's just confirm everything even when everything is confirmed unfortunately with a lot of people things they'll say can do a lot more damage than good for everybody for victims for by standards just because you have a platform and just because you feel passionate about this doesn't mean you have the right words to say it doesn't mean that there's an awesome responsibility with having a microphone and a megaphone when you have an audience you have an awesome responsibility so there's an awesome responsibility at your shabbos table there's an awesome responsibility when you're talking in your in your living room your kitchen but there's an enormous responsibility when you have a platform and when something is put out in cyberspace even if you try to take it down it is part of the conversation there forever we've learned that and there's a great responsibility you can do a lot of things right and you can generate a lot of positive change but you could also do things wrong and you can make mistakes and we have to have him as soon and begin our rabbi's got it right and they said move slowly now why do people react this way i think that this is a overwhelming reaction from a demographic or segment of the community who for a long time have felt that the community and i'm using that term very broadly right now because obviously it's such a large and diverse community but the community didn't do enough not about walder in particular but on this issue in general have we done enough have we done enough to speak out have we done enough to call out have we done enough to give direction about what needs to be done and so on so i think that there's this overwhelming response like yeah finally the covers the lids been blown off this thing stop staying quiet finally say something and there's i understand that and i identify with that but what's going to be said needs to be said carefully strategically intelligently needs to contribute positively again let's keep our eye on the ball here our eye on the ball is to ensure no one else is ever hurt and those who were have people by their side standing up supporting them defending them believing them protecting them that's our goal right now now there are ancillary conversations what i do with his books do we speak to our kids about this there are all kinds of corollary conversations but keep our eye on the bowl of what we need to do and keeping a scorecard and giving a grade and you know being online retweeting and evaluating and looking and calling out i don't think we'll achieve those goals do we want to be effective or we want to be right so there's a commentary that i pinned uh tamari said so you should keep quiet and let it keep happening i don't think robert goldberg nor myself like even hinted at that a little bit i think um i think what we're saying is just the right people need to be saying the right things i'll give you an example for a meaningful minute there was meetings my whole staff what are we saying are we saying something and we cut what we came out with is you know what other why jacobson said something incredible let's let's let's just you know put that out let's you know jump on that i mean simmer jacob since this night have y'all seen let's you know partner with these rabbis who know a lot more and are well way more equipped than myself or people to my staff to speak about this topic let's get on board with them if it's like berkowitz or laviaski's are people who who have spoken on this and we can go ahead and um piggyback with what they said and and uh and go ahead and do that so i want to move on and i could agree with you hold on let me just say one more comment that before we pollute the space and contaminate it with either just noise or saying the wrong thing you just have an amazing list of people who are misunivedin they said things that should be said it needs to be said but it took them the time and the and the opportunity to formulate it and like i said you could address david cohen to that list ruby weinfeld of conscious weinfeld in ramadan who who i love was incredibly powerful and strong on this issue many robotim godolm i don't feel equipped and i don't i'm not smart enough or big enough and i was waiting to make sure that i'm piggybacking and learning and listening not not on where i am on this issue i don't need anyone bigger than me to tell me where to be on this issue but the question is how to process this and what to say about this and where to go with this that that's how our minnesota works that's how we live in our community we don't have to operate in the same pace of a new cycle as the world around us so i can't emphasize again enough that you know to me again it's not about the noise it's not about the hockey it's not about the scorecard it's about being productive it's about making a difference it's about creating communal policies and standards it's about reminding people about going to the authorities it's about how we react when someone reports or confides to us adults teachers rabbis what are our policies what are our protocols how do we deal with it responsibly how do we make sure that the guilty party is stopped in their tracks and held accountable and simultaneously how do we protect the false accusation which i think we spoke about last time can ruin someone's life if we don't deal with that responsibly either because i'll end by just saying this and and i know now we're focused on predators and perpetrators and holding them accountable but if we're not careful if we're not careful there's enormous amount at stake so if we allow the mob mentality to rule the day they will bring down people who don't deserve it and that's a tragedy in its own right too and that that space where there's nuance the space that says that this is unacceptable intolerable we will confront it we will fight it we will protect we will have policies we will hold accountable we will sympathize empathize and strengthen the victims but simultaneously we believe in justice we believe in protecting someone from being falsely accused we believe there should be a legitimate process the people in that space i think are acting the most responsibly amazing and i just want to go ahead and feature this question that somebody wrote over here not the kind of one second um the important question who's rallying together and to create uh to create that and change system so we're mentioning we're talking until now you know about people's reactions but talkless how how could this happen and how do we make sure that this never happens again how what can we do or what are what is being done to make sure that this never happens again you know first of all as long as there are people with free will in this world there will be bad people and as long as there are bad people they'll make bad choices and i don't know that we could ever do anything altogether to eradicate something so we need to go with our eyes open and we need to go in with fair expectations we can do everything we can do i'm not suggesting that we accept it um but we can only do all that we can do so first of all i think we have to learn that where there's smoke this fire and when there's someone who's acting in a suspicious way when someone's drawing negative attention when there are rumors innuendo around someone that doesn't mean that we go online grab our keyboard internet connection and try to take down their life but it means that we go to responsible parties be they the secular authorities be they rabbinic authorities be they the heads of institutions and we demand an evaluation we say there's enough smoke here that we're not comfortable with you continuing to be part of an active part of our community until there's an evaluation when when scandals already happened years ago our shul um adopted we we consulted experts we wrote up policies they were voted by our board and they were adopted exactly what happens if there's an allegation or accusation someone comes to me or our youth director or someone else in the show and says so and so did such and such what do we do with that we know we're not equipped to handle it ourselves you know i as a rabbi don't have a meeting and then i say well i think you did it or i think you didn't do it or i think this is what should happen we know we're not that's how we've gotten into a lot of these troubles to begin with is that when we think that we can handle it ourselves and we're not ready and we're not competent so we have a committee a small three people they evaluate and they make a recommendation based on it we have an enormous expert that we've worked in lives in new york who does um evaluations on these issues and there have been cases where a person makes an allegation and we say to that individual we're not announcing your name from the bema we're not sending out an email we're not ruining your life on the other hand there's enough here that we can't say to you that we can ignore it because our conscience won't let us sleep at night because there's enough here so we can only do the only thing we can do here's an expert there's an evaluation it's confidential 100 signed legal documents confidential undergo this evaluation and we will follow the advice of the person who does the evaluation who could clear your name who can find that there is some pathology but yet believe that as long as you're getting counseling or the like there are all kinds of conclusions they can come to so i think there are things that we can adapt first of all we need to continue to educate our children about their bodies their privacy their selves about when they should speak out when they do we need to believe them take them seriously follow up we need to um where there's smoke there's fire and that doesn't mean there's smoke there's fire and we can take the internet to try to shame people but it means we can hold the people around them accountable to demand there's some evaluation or some way of to the best of our ability ascertaining if there's something more that we need to do so there are actions there are policies and protocols we can do they're not going to be universal they're not going to agree and so hater in your life the same way in the five towns in boca or la each community will have to adopt a little bit differently to what they are find experts there are experts who deal with this in the general world and let them guide us of what we could be doing but we need to not be afraid to talk about it i disagree vehemently with the segment of the community saying don't talk about this our children don't need to hear from this sweep it under the carpet that's partially how we got here to begin with partially how we got here to begin with is an environment that says there's something a shameful or something dirty or something embarrassing about speaking about this our children need to know not that this is the topic of shabba's table every week but our children need to know um what their rights they need to know privacy they need to know their bodies know what to expect from adults and they need to know that they can come to us if anything happens at all especially if somebody says don't come to us then they have to come to us uh as quickly as possible if somebody says such a thing so rabbiaki horowitz my good buddies written a great book it's distributed in many language there are others with great educational advice we should take advantage and educate children parents on what to look for and how to respond are you suggesting that we take this as an opportunity to speak about this with our children and educate them that there are people like this out there in the world unfortunately and you need to keep your eyes open and does that rob their innocence does that you know is there like you know i can imagine a parent could say like i don't have i don't have children my my my child is one and a half years old i don't i mean i could talk to her about it and she has heard me talk about it but she won't remember you know um but i imagine there are parents who have kids who are let's say eight years old and up seven years seven years old and enough do you go over your eight-year-old and tell them what's going on and tell them what's the age and what's the right thing to say do you use this as an opportunity to say okay well listen this and this happened and you just have to know that if anyone ever does this you talk to somebody it's a phenomenal question but here's another problem that's happening anyone who cares about this issue has essentially named themselves and acting like they're did i lose one of the challenges that we're having is that everyone who cares about this which is a wonderful thing the fact that you care about this does not make you an expert on this you cannot be an amateur or answer expert on something that is so significant with such significant consequences dr michael solomon wrote an article about this and he's wonderful he wrote a book on abuse years ago when no one was talking about it he was ahead of the curve on this and he wrote an article on times of this when he said this he said we have experts in this field they've studied they've researched they have data they've counseled let's listen to them the fact that you care the fact that you virtue signal that you care does not make you an authority to say this is how to talk about it when to talk about it and to what age to talk about it so let's refer to our experts to determine how and when to talk about it i with the help of an expert have an article that i wrote and i republish it every single summer before kids go off to camp i put it in our weekly and send out an email and as we head in the summer months and we go on vacation and many kids are going to sleep away camp here's a reminder of some safety things have a pool fence for example if you live in florida you know you can mix in all kinds of safety issues wear your seatbelt have a pool fence and talk to your children about private space about their body about the right to privacy about how they should be treated by adults around them camp uh counselors and the like so 100 we should have conversations and we have wonderful torah dick authorities who can guide us what to say when to say how to say caring about this doesn't make you an expert on this i think it's important to remember that okay amazing i think we're just about ready to wrap this up i honestly can't see if there's any comments for some reason it's completely blocked on my end we got comments you're coming in do you want to is there any are there any of them that you want to address because i don't know why i can't see them i think they're uh they're saying a lot of the things reinforcing a lot of the things that we're saying beautiful educating ourselves how to educate our children bright beginnings forum yankee horowitz is a great resource um i think a lot of people a lot of people are are relating is this is this this happened in arizona this happened in israel it's a different world than the world that we live in here in america um could this happen in america is this an israel problem is it something that we should know as oh this could happen here it has happened here don't fool yourself it has happened here we have camps who've had scandals we have schools who've had scandals we have communities who have scandals it's not that it can it has happened here and as long as human beings are alive i don't care what you wear on your head or how firm you are how hard you shuckle and i don't care what community you're part of as long as there are human beings there will be those who are rotten there will be those who have mental illness and challenges which i'm not excusing or saying we should be sympathetic to but i'm saying these things will happen these things will happen remember lady kletzke remember the little boy a blessed memory he was kidnapped and horrific things were done to him there's a real world that we live in and the real world has dangers and we shouldn't scare our children and we shouldn't give them anxiety but on the other hand they rely on us to protect them they rely on us to care about them so we need to turn to people who know to learn how to educate ourselves and how to educate and how to speak to them like i said i tell you one of the biggest things i think going on is that there's a whole world of people who care about this and they're not sure exactly how they're supposed to care about it they're not sure how to channel that they're angry they're frustrated they're hurt they care and they're not sure how so we need to also talk about what are the responsible ways to care so that people don't channel that need and that want in an irresponsible way i completely and totally understand um for everyone who just we got a little more time if you have anything else let's check let's see what we got here it's a very unrelated but interesting question um i could share this i don't know i we're trying to read these um okay how about we go with this i'm trying to see if i can save in a vague way oh i guess like why not feature that one i guess my question is can the robun come together just as strongly with an ad like they did um for lace front wigs can i do that the same way for this that's uh interesting something to think about whoever asked that question go to amudim.org and i moved in his website i don't remember the slash i don't remember what it was um but on a modem's website they collected signatures of many many many rabuna mental health professionals and community leaders who made a statement about standing with victims it's really powerful to see all those names i reposted it i tweeted it i said i can't imagine any reason someone wouldn't want their name on that list wouldn't want to proudly be part of standing up to stand with and care about victims um and uh so yeah i think that i don't know about the lace top wigs i wasn't asked to sign on that one but but um i did sign on the standing with victims one so if you check out moodim's website you'll see that such a list does exist right and one other question that was sent in um and i just i'm not gonna feature but i'll just ask it take someone who is part of our beautiful from jewish community and i think we lost you goldberg i'm here i'm here okay take take uh take somebody from our beautiful from community and let's say they um they want the prison they committed a crime they went to prison and they get out of prison and everyone you know i guess idolizes that person or they parade around that person um because there's an injustice someone put in a question here that they they take issue with that they think that is the wrong the wrong behavior what is rory goldberg's response to a question like that they were in prison unjustly or their sentence was unjust but they deserve to go to prison a little bit and we're not getting into the details here yes so my so i i will i'll tell you my answer to that i've spoken about this in other contexts i got a lot of pushback and heat for it but i'll say it again because actually i also got a lot of people who are grateful someone is expressing it if somebody sat in prison unjustly if they were disproportionately sentenced as an act of anti-semitism that is horrible it's horrific they did deserve us to stand up and confront and speak out and get them out and if a person was incarcerated and spent their time there with tremendous amunah they displayed amazing emunah they lived with faith they lived true hashem we have so much to learn from that that's inspiring that's remarkable display of strength however if a person did commit crimes then part of the way that they could inspire the community afterwards is to not only talk about the amuna that got them through it but to remind everyone how core it is for a yid to be honest to have integrity to do business with honesty and integrity so i think there's a little bit of a lost opportunity in some cases we're not using any names but somebody might be heroic in that they were a victim of anti-semitism they might be heroic in the amuna and having committed those crimes is itself and i'm not saying all crimes are equal even if they were um crimes that didn't rise to the level that was spoken about them but at the end of the day there were there were criminal activity there were crimes total personality the torah does not want us to violate crimes so if a person has we talked about the responsibility of a platform before right we talked about the responsibility of having a microphone a megaphone a platform of being an influencer whether online or before audiences or being brought in to speak or publishing a book you have an audience if you have an audience use it use it to not only talk about how you were a victim but use it to talk about what you could have done differently that will help inspire other people i i shudder to think and i've heard young people say that if an individual was convicted of crimes even if the incarceration was unfair but a young person was convicted of crimes could be so celebrated without any mention of their crimes then i guess crime is okay one of two conclusions either i guess cutting corners or cheating or being a little dishonest is okay or i want no part of the religion and the god that celebrates that kind of a person okay i hear you no dude uh did we lose you again what we lost you for a second you're back yeah yeah so i think adina reizer writes about nuance and i can't agree i'm i'm a big believer in nuance there's a big belief in nuance you know we live in this all-or-nothing world because we are influenced by the secular world around us i'm either forever trump or never trump i'm either you know vaccines are the worst i would never take hope it exists and everything is binary it's like what team do you line up on and how about we look at issues and we say they're complex they're complicated there's nuance here there's nuance here we're able to see things in a nuanced way someone's heroic and inspiration on this but about that i think that we should learn that we shouldn't do that or they should speak about that i can love what someone did for israel the jewish people but feel their character conflicts exactly with what we believe there's nuance there's nuance we need to champion nuance we need to create a community of people who believe in nuance we need to reintroduce nuance to the conversation because nuance is critical for ms for truth i think the uh and the opposite nuance moment of the of the week this picture is going around i don't have it on the phone that i'm going live on so i can't share it but it's a screenshot of a rosemary pot a rosemary potter tweeting at glenn younkin uh saying hundreds are stranded on the i-95 virginia for hours does govern does governor young can care of course not proof virginia voted for the wrong person for governor someone to reply to her saying young kin ain't governor yet still the other guy and she replied moment she replied this the exact moment right after said thank goodness governor northam has put together teams to clear the highway and take stranded driver driver food and drinks he cares that is the unbelievable that is the world we live in that is the world we live in and that honestly it it goes with everything everything from vaccines to masks to this to that there is a lack of nuance i was talking to my brother my brother was in from israel and we were talking about shemitah so you're in israel it's amazing so i was asking my brother what does he do what does he eat how does he approach shmita so he was telling me we were talking it through the suggested mahira otsur baisden dibai from an arab there's a lot of considerations a complicated question see he's telling me he goes would you believe ephraim that in israel even shmita now is like so politically charged you know you hold of this or would you hold that or would you buy from that person there's almost nothing left you could talk about that is not incredibly politically charged and such an emotionally invested and just nuance keep calm carry on have a conversation with some nuance come out on the right side of issues talk talk think through and realize they're complicated things are complicated people are complicated when they're not let's address them there's nothing complicated about standing up to predators there's nothing complicated about stopping abuse there's nothing complicated about our now needing always having need how we do that's complicated how we do that's nuanced how we'll respond and what policies we put in place are complicated so there's a lot of world the fringe they thrive unknown nuance the fringe in every topic the fringe on both sides of every single topic they thrive and make a living on not having nuance but we were who are have a fidelity to ms if we believe in truth then the middle as nuance has nuanced to it beautiful dark show i'm glad we had this conversation for those who joined a little bit late this conversation will be uploaded right away uh meaningful on his instagram page as well as the graphic will be youtube channel if you have any more questions feel free to send us direct message and we will mention get to it um we will push them get to it a different week or you could text or we have from goldberg at eight four five two one six nine two one two eight four five two one six nine two one two uh some guy from monsters you can get that text and be really upset when it's not everybody anyways wishing you all an amazing shabbos rabbi goldberg thank you so much naki great to be together thanks keep up all the great work that you're doing have a great job with us everyone bye