Hilchos Kashrus – Is There Really Such a Thing as Pareve?

okay everybody erev tov and khodeshtrov it is rosh kodesh tonight so wishing everyone a good ho dash as well we have the uh privilege of learning jokes cassius is part of our beautiful danny greyjower zekrono midrash mid-rasha and all of our learning should be should serve to elevate her very special and precious soul and uh grateful to you for joining to explore a halal topic that comes up often and i don't know if there are a lot of halal topics that people feel strongly about and yet this is one of them when i put out the flyer is there such a thing as pariv i got some excited and heated responses is there such a thing as power of you wouldn't think that people would be emotionally invested in that question or have a strong feeling one friend of mine texted me there's no such thing as power of and there's no such color as plaid i'm not even sure exactly what that means but he feels strongly about power now if we were in a room together i would ask everyone by a show of hands who maintains power of calum who has power of knives and dishes and caleb in their kitchen because in the goldberg home which i have very little to do with the decisions in the kitchen admittedly we do not have parif and the reason we don't have pariv is because while there are benefits of maintaining pariv but it becomes very difficult if not nearly impossible to maintain and that's we're going to talk about and go through tonight what is the definition of power of what is the role of power of how do you maintain and preserve power of utensils within the kitchen we're going to talk a little bit about the notion of not bar not i would say that on a weekly basis just for my own children alone the amount of questions i get about something that was cooked in a meat pot paris cooked in one pot that you want to be able to use in the other with the others so you cook noodles in a meat pot can you melt cheese on it what's the halacha so we'll talk about that notion of power we'll talk about eggs which are para fish which is pariv doesn't need its own pot how do you cook it how do you present it talk a little bit about dairy equipment de and if we have time we'll get to the question of onions but i'm not going to lie to you i'm kind of hoping that we don't have time because onions are very very complicated area of halacha if you cut an onion with a meat knife it has changes the status of the onion and then the question is what you can use that onion with in terms of in in theory so these are some of the questions that we're going to discuss what is part of where does power come from well the truth is the question is not what is power the question is why isn't everything powerful what is the opposite of part of what is power of power is like you know switzerland it's trying to stay neutral so what is paris so we know that we have a concept called meat and we have a concept called dairy where do we get the concept called bisari basar or khalafi love milk where do we get these concepts if you think about it logically for a moment where does milk come from milk comes from the cow milk comes from an animal now we have a principle that called yosemite that whatever emanates whatever comes out of something else has the status of the thing that it came out of so therefore all the product of a cow all the pieces of the cow that are butchered and sold that we barbecue and enjoy they all the status of being bisari they're all flagships they're all meat why because they come from the cow the anomaly and the real question is not why is the cow flaccids but meat why is meat or steak flake the real question is why isn't milk flake chicks why is milk milkrix now that is what we call in learning a klutzkasa why is milk milks the answer is milk is milks because milk is the very definition of milks and if i haven't confused you enough let me explain the torah tells us in three separate places of pasta you're not allowed to cook a kid an animal a baby in its mother's milk and gaza rabbis understand from here three separate and parallel biblical laws that have to do with the definition the laws of kashus you can't cook a kid in its mother's milk so this pasta becomes the source the text of the differentiation between meat and dairy flashes and milks the gadi and the imo are the flashiks the khalev the milk is the milchik's the fact that the torah distinguished between the milk and the mother gives us the category called the mother i.e the meat and the category called the milk and anything produced from the milk like cheese which has the status of being dairy you cannot have meat and dairy what we call buster beckham because the torah says it three separate times in three separate places we in fact derive we learn three separate laws we are balancing tonight both on zoom and youtube live and facebook live if you have questions comments or want clarifications please feel free to submit in the chat in any of those three and we'll try to get to them somehow miraculously so the torah distinguished and differentiated between the mother which is called the meat and the milk which is called the dairy and by differentiating and distinguishing between the two it's set out there are these two different categories and repeats this prohibition three times to teach me that there are three ways that this prohibition can be violated biblically number one is eating it if i eat meat and dairy that are mixed together not only mix together many people don't know this but if you eat meat and dairy that are cooked together if the meat and the dairy are not cooked together so if you had a cold slice of cheese with a cold slice of deli and ate them together you'd be violating a law but not a biblical law to violate the biblical law of eating meat and dairy they actually have to be cooked together the first prohibition is eating meat and dairy the second prohibition is bishop is cooking meat and dairy that means to say you cannot work on the line at mcdonald's where you are flipping cheeseburgers because even if you have no intent even if you are vehemently opposed to eating those cheeseburgers on multiple grounds including cashews you nevertheless will violate the biblical prohibition just by cooking them and the third prohibition is what's called the isr na'a there's a prohibition to benefit from a mixture of meat and dairy so that means that if i have a meat and dairy mixture i can't sell it and derive a profit from it if i have a meat and dairy dog food i can't derive the benefit of my dog eating a dog food which has cooked meat and dairy in it together and therefore i have three separate prohibitions you cannot cook a kid in its mother's milk there's such a thing called meat there's such a thing called dairy if it doesn't fit neatly into one of those categories meat or dairy the gadi or imo or the khalev then it falls into the category called pariv everything else is parif so really the default is power that which grows from the ground that which grows from the trees it's all power it's neutral it doesn't have a status it's not subject to a status it's not a question of why it's not meat or dairy the real thing that's the default is to be part of it's that the torah specifically tells us that animals are meat and the milk that comes from them and anything produced with it is dairy now as an aside chicken is chicken paris meat or dairy so i don't want to confuse you but biblically speaking media rice a chicken is parif biblically speaking chicken is no different than an apple an orange or the wheat that grows from the ground it's power and chicken and milk are perfectly permissible biblically speaking because the torah specifically delineated meat that meat which is defined by certain animals not poultry animals not poultry animals are meat poultry is powerful however the rabbis came along and they said what we live even in a secular sense today that all poultry we categorize as meat it's in the meat section of the supermarket chicken is sold with the meat because we think of chicken as being meat so the rabbis understood that what would happen if we let you have chicken mixed with milk you'll end up having meat with me mixed with milk and therefore the rabbis came along and they said chicken and milk is prohibited rabbinically and we are strict we treat that as a strict prohibition and of course we don't consume chicken with milk any more than we consume meat with milk parenthetically the talmud records that in the town of yossi iguali they didn't adopt that rabbinic prohibition and they ate chicken with milk chicken parmesan says they would eat chicken parm in the town of rabiosi aguili if you are a descendant of pervious ugly and can prove that then perhaps you're entitled to otherwise we've all adopted there have been a stringency not to eat chicken with milk just like we don't eat any meat with milk so again pasta says three times we learned three separate prohibitions that when it comes to animals which are meat or the milk that comes from them which is dairy you cannot cook them together eat them cooked together or derive any benefit from their being together everything else in the world that which grows from the tree that which grows from the ground that which lives in the in the water everything else has the status even poultry again biblically everything else has the status of being of being powerful good that's when it comes to defining the foods so when it comes to our utensils some people by the show of hands those who are on zoom where i can see you some raise their hands to say that they maintain power of utensils so let's start with this question what do you do how do you use your power of utensils why would you have a power of utensil why would you maintain a power of utensil because if there are foods that you don't want to designate either meat or dairy and you don't want to limit what they can be eaten with you might choose to cook or bake them in a power of way so that they can maintain their neutrality and therefore later they can take a side later they can eat with meat or dairy and in order to maintain their neutrality their power of status you want to cook them make them with power the question is what do you do with your power of utensils when you want to clean them so you want a pair of cake and why do you want your power of cake because you want that cake to be able to be sliced and served at the end of the meat meal in chaves and then you want to be able to have the leftover of that cake on sunday morning with your delicious cup of coffee that you drink with milk really it's a milkshake not a cup of coffee a proper cup of coffee is a black coffee but we won't get into that right now so you want to have a slice of that cake with your milkshake that you call coffee on sunday morning so in order to be able to have the cake serve both needs you want to make it part of good beautiful intent the question is how do you what do you do with the utensils you use to prepare that power so some some maintain a power of sponge and only clean the power of utensils in an empty sink and that way they preserve the power status of their utensils is there or an alternative to that however and the answer is yes if everything that goes into your dishwasher is rinsed before it goes in so your meat dishwasher may have meat dishes but it doesn't it may even the dishes may even have some residue but there's no actual we call mamas there's no actual meat in the dishwasher then you'd be able to put power of utensil in that dishwasher as well and it would not lose its status of being part of so if you rinse everything before it goes into either the meat or the dairy dishwasher and you wash it through the cycle with soap then your power utensil would not lose its status as being of but this is why we don't have power from the goldberg home because now you get into a complicated world of trusting that everybody really rinse their utensil before one of the dishwasher the dishwashers all function equally in terms of when they introduce hot water when they introduce the soap how they really work it's very very complicated you're relying on a lot and to a certain degree it's easier not to have power of at all so that was the first question which was having these power of utensils we'll come back to glassware it's a great question we'll try to come back to glassware um but how to clean power of utensils if you choose to if you choose to use them the real utensil that's worthwhile to maintain power of is a knife and why is that valuable if you're not going to use the entire onion that you're cutting in whatever you're going to be making why so we're not going to get into the details of onion but let's just touch on the onion for a moment onion has a certain stat let's take a step back in we have a concept called mamashus mamasis is the actual food right so a piece of meat is meat and a cup of milk is dairy and an apple is part of his in-between what is the how do taste get transferred in i don't only have the actual food called the mamas i have something called tam and tam as in tess i and mem is significant means taste what do i mean by taste is significant i don't only mean that you better cook it well so it has a good taste it's significant i mean taste is significant halachically if i have a pot and my pot is brand new it's neutral i got it off my registry i took it to the kayla mikvah i'm ready to go i'm ready to play house as a young couple i'm ready to cook my first meal i've got my brand new clean toe filled perfectly clean pot never been used for anything and now in that pot i make a big pot of chicken soup and then when i'm done making the chicken soup i clean the pot i scrub it well and it's perfectly clean you could test it in a laboratory you could test it for shared surface corona and it is perfectly sterile and you can operate on the inside of my pot that's how sterile that's how clean it is what is the status of my pot is it meat or is it parf so i would have said once you've cleaned and sterilized the pot and by sterilized not only kasha i mean it's cleaned super super well i would think it returned to the status of being power of there's no meat search high and low look all over and you're not going to find the chicken soup you've cleaned it and scrubbed it so why is it considered a felicious pot so the gemara hulan has a long discussion a long debate to figure out in several places in german in shas how we know this but take my word for it for the moment that a taste that gets embedded and imported into a utensil has the same status as the food from which it came which means the walls of my pot have absorbed the taste of my chicken soup and as long as they preserve that taste within their walls the pot has the status of being meat it's a meat pot how long can they maintain the taste that's absorbed in the wall of the pot tom kiker the tom the taste that's embedded in the wall of the pot how long can it stay there so here the gemara tells us that after 24 hours if the pot's not used after 24 hours whatever taste was embedded in the wall of that pot is no saint tom left gum it becomes a stale taste it's no longer potent it's no longer meaningful it can no longer have an impact which means to say listen carefully that biblically speaking 24 hours after using a pot for either meat or dairy biblically speaking midorisa it reverts to its power of status back to neutrality however however our rabbis understood that what's going to happen if i have to look keep track in my kitchen every fork every knife every spoon every plate every glass every pot every frying pan every spatula what am i going to label each one it was last used at 6 52 p.m this was last used in the morning at 702 am and the clock's gonna tick for 24 hours on each of these utensils to have it reset back to its power status so therefore our rabbis came along and they said they were goes there ben yom ain't no the rabbis came along and they said you know what's going to happen you're going to think something is 24 hours and one minute old it went back to pariv so i made my chicken soup in the pot 24 hours and one minute ago now my pot is powered again now i can make my mac and cheese but it turns out you're wrong your clock is wrong or your tag your label is wrong and really it's only been 23 hours and 52 minutes and now that pot you're going to end up having meat and dairy and therefore the rabbi said that even though biblically you only need one set of pots and the one of the rishonim only had one set biblically speaking you could have one set and just wait 24 hours before you use it for the opposite nevertheless rabbi said that as a recipe not for a delicious meal it is a recipe for disaster and therefore designate meat designate dairy know that they're separate and you're good to go but why is it significant why is what i'm telling you significant it's significant for the following reason because because of the following first of all how does taste get imparted we said 24 hours ben yomo panyoma was the halakh term for within 24 hours within 24 hours it carries the taste of whatever food imparted it after 24 hours it loses that taste that becomes stale negligible and therefore biblically it returns to the status of being powerful which is going to have halal implications for us we'll describe in a moment but how is taste transferred one way taste distributor is heat the presence of heat transfers a taste from the food into a utensil so that even when the food is no longer there i.e i cleaned my pot the pot still has a meat or a dairy designation because the heat that was put to the food made the pot absorb the taste of the food another way that taste is transferred is what's called the davarharif something which is sharp an onion a radish a sharp food a dover kharif combined with duchenne the pressure of a knife can impart a taste so normally if i have cold let's say right the other question i get multiple times a week is someone washed the wrong utensil in the wrong dishwasher or with the wrong spoon with the wrong sponge in the wrong sink what is the status first question i ask is how hot was the water if the water was less than 120 degrees less than yatso that is bow then no taste was transferred take that same fork or spoon or knife the same utensil that was washed with the wrong sponge uh or in the wrong sink and rinse it off under cold water you're good to go because if there's no heat there could be no transfer of taste however when it comes to a knife and an onion even with cold the combination of the sharpness of the onion combined with the pressure of the knife can transfer taste even without the presence of heat so why am i telling you this because if i have an onion and i cut the onion with my dairy knife because half the onion i used in my omelet in the morning what is the status of my onion my onion is now a dairy onion and what's gonna happen if i cut that onion at night i used half the onion in the morning for my omelet my cheese omelet so i used my dairy knife to cut the onion but now i want to cut that onion in the evening to use the other half in my i'm so pathetic i can't even think of a fleshy thing that you're making at night in my fried onions to go on my steak so i'm gonna have a problem my onion is a dairy onion because i cut it with a dairy knife so the main reason to maintain power in your home is a power of knife will allow you to cut an onion if you have trouble making commitment you're not a commitment person and you don't want to make a commitment for that onion you can cut it with a power of knife and it leaves you the leeway to use that onion the leftover of the onion either with meat or with dairy because it was originally cut with with a power of knife the power of knife can be washed with a power of sponge alone in a sink or if everything going into a dishwasher is rinsed and soap is added to the dishwasher even if the power went through the dishwasher it would not lose its status as being as being powerful but let's come back over to this notion of the pot the pot gains a status i see alana asked about a lemon and pineapple being sharp i don't think we pascal that they're considered onion radish even the onion by the way different types of onion may not be considered karaf an onion once it's cooked loses its potency it's no longer considered kharaf garlic i believe we do treat as being sharp and we give it that that status of being half as well let's get back to our pot not the kind of pot if you live in new jersey that just became legal the kind of pot that we're making our spaghetti or our noodles in that i want to talk about right now that deserves much bigger smile than you guys gave me okay you don't know what happened to the election anyway so your pot this is the question i get all the time abba i made noodles in a flaccid pot last night for dinner and then thank you jody and then the next day there were leftover noodles i want to melt cheese on it am i a lot of melt cheese on the noodle power of noodles that i made in the meat pot last night and here's where a little knowledge goes a long way because your instinct might be no of course not felicia milk separate but if you know the halacha and you know the mechanics of the allah it provides more opportunities than you thought you would know thank you rabbi finkelster so this comes to a discussion that we call not bernat not nun tess stands for no saint tom no saint tom we described is the definition of how taste gets imparted in a pot or in any utensil the combination of heat with actual foodstuff imparts a taste into a pot that taste is potent for 24 hours ben yomo after 24 hours it's called no sentiment it now becomes a stale taste which is no longer viable and aino banyamo after 24 hours we need separate utensils as we said because we're afraid aino benjamin will come to mix it up but after the fact if it turns out you mixed it up we often rely on the 24-hour rule so for example if you've called me with a question and you say that my um usually the question goes something like this i made a food in a fleshy pot and then my husband that's usually how the question goes or child except you're all too kind you don't use such adjectives but but you imply it with your uh with your tone um ended up using the wrong fork or or putting it on the wrong plate or heating it up in the wrong microwave so what i'll say is the following was the pot used within 24 hours and not within 24 hours because whether it was used the utensil then 24 hours not 24 hours if it's an ano ben yomo remember biblically speaking it went back to being neutral and you might still be able to eat the food even if you're not allowed to or even if you have to kosher the utensil so let's get back to the case i was giving what we call the power of cooked in either meat or dairy that you then want to use with the opposite designation so noodles noodles is the quintessential power of food that could go either way and be served in either in either direction so the gemara khulan records in makhlok's ravenshimala debate and there the gemara has the following question hot fish was put on a meat plate and then you want to take that fish and you want to have dairy with the fish so are you allowed to if the fish was placed on a meat plate can you have dairy with the fish it's a much locus a debate between rav and between rav and shmuel rav believes that it is forbidden why because once that hot fish touched the meat plate now the fish has absorbed meat and therefore you have lost the opportunity to eat it with dairy small disagrees and shmuel says no you have no problem and you know why you have no problem because it's what's called not bernat and what is not bar not not bar not is no saint tom bar no saint tom it's twice removed let me explain how did my plate get the meat taste the meat put the taste into the plate that's one transfer of taste and now the taste is going to come out of the plate into the fish that's a second transfer of taste shmuel's of the opinion if there's a double transfer of taste it's so far removed it's twice removed it loses its potency and therefore it's not bar not so the fish put on the meat plate first the meat had to transfer into the plate then the taste had to come out of the plate into the fish by the time it got to the fish it was not even a viable taste of meat and therefore you can have it with dairy and therefore you can have it with dairy that's the opinion of shmuel now when shmuel said that leave aside for the moment the question of fish and meat which we the gemara says that fish and meat are kashala davaraja they're dangerous we don't eat fish and meat even until today we maintain separate fish forks and we wash the utensils some are mocked by the sterilize the mouth after the fish before they eat the meat we don't mix fish and meat not for casserous reasons but for safety reasons it was deemed to be dangerous dangerous i once gave a shirt on this and did some research the gemara says it's kashal which russia says it's if you eat fish and meat you'll get saras not the spiritual leprosy the torah describes but a dermatological disease so i once read an article that wanted to argue that if you eat fish and meat you're more likely to get psoriasis which sounds like saras the etymology of the word psoriasis and saras might be linked fish and meat might be dangerous so leave aside that fish and meat we're strict on that spartan by the way are also strict not to have fish and dairy spartan don't eat fish with dairy on top that's another stringency of the spiredum not of the ashkenazim so leave aside the notion of the fish on the meat and the fish in the dairy but think of it nonstop of fish think of it as something powerful a hot potato you put a hot potato down on a meat pot on a meat plate and now you want to melt cheese on the hot potato are you allowed to that's the debate in the talmud between rob and small rob says no you can't why because the potato was on a meat plate so it's got a meat taste you can't put dairy on top of it that's mixing meat and dairy smoke comes along and he says what are you talking about it's a twice removed the meat had to transfer taste into the plate the plate was clean when you put the potato down then the taste had to come out of the plate into the potato by the time that the taste of the meat is twice removed it had to go in the plate out of the plate by the time it got to the potato it is so insignificant it is such a weak strength that you absolutely can't have it with dairy now how far did schmuel go when he said you're allowed to have it together this is a three-way mahlokus richonam which i think i've confused you enough so i'm not going to get into in detail but our medieval commentaries debate just how far small meant to go with not bar not no st tom bar no saint tom a twice removed taste how far did he mean to go i'll skip the debate and take you right to the bottom line this bottom line is a debate a mahlok is between the rama ashkenazim and svardham you have to know your heritage you have to know where you come from to know how to practice sparta are lenient in this area and fardham say the following when something is a twice removed taste it is in fact so weak you're allowed to mix it with dairy even intentionally what do i mean i mean if i made noodles in a meat pot even if the pot had been used for meat within 24 hours i'm allowed to take those power of noodles and in another pot melt cheese on top of them that's the safari practice why because my meat pot even if we're used within 24 hours it's a twice removed taste first the meat went in the pot and then it comes from the pot into the noodles by the time it hits the noodles it is such an insignificant taste that i'm allowed to melt cheese on those noodles that's the safari practice that's how leni and svardhan go ashkenazim are more strict not necessarily in general but in this particular area and ashkenazim say the following ashkenazim say if if your child came to you and they said you know i melted noodles i melted cheese on the noodles you made last night and you say ah i made those noodles in a meat pot and i made the noodles in a meat pot that had been used within 24 hours are you allowed to eat the noodles the answer is yes even ashkenazim would say yes because of not bar not within 24 hours you cannot intentionally melt noodles on but if somebody did it by accident you're allowed to eat it because twice removed the taste however even ashkenazim say the following they say if the pot if the meat pot has not been used for 24 hours for meat so i take a meat pot that's not been used for 24 hours for meat and i make noodles in it and now i have power of noodles made in a meat pot am i allowed to melt cheese on those noodles even ashkenazim say yes if the pot had not been used for 24 hours for meat i'm allowed to intentionally melt cheese on those pot of noodles however here's the caveat i should not make noodles in a meat pot with intention to melt the cheese on it later meaning i shouldn't make the power of noodles in a meat pot for dinner tonight thinking oh and tomorrow night i'll reprocess it by mixing cheese into it in a dairy pot it's only the halacha only applies if i made noodles and it turned out they were left over and it turned out the pot had not been used for 20 within 24 hours for the meat when i made the noodles then i'd be allowed to melt the cheese on top of it but i should not intentionally make powder in a meat pot even if the pot had not been used for 24 hours with the intent to have it with dairy okay is anyone still with me have i thoroughly confused absolutely everybody it's a very as i said a very very complicated topic so this is the area this is the most significant i think area of where power comes up what's called not by not no saint tom bar no st tom twice removed taste where i made pariv in either a meat pot or a dairy pot and it's not true what many think instinctually which is if i made it in a meat or a dairy then by definition i cannot have it with the other you have to know a little of the you have to know several things are you ashkenazi or are you farting was the pot used within 24 hours of the meat or not used within 24 hours of the meat what was the intention when you made the noodles in there but the way it'll come out very often you would be allowed to have power of made in a meat pot with dairy or powder made in a dairy pot with meat even after the fact that is what's called no saint tom bar no saint tom twice removed taste of either the meat or the dairy which enables you to preserve your status of being of being powerful okay very good next and just check any questions have come in that i want to address here we'll get to ovens and microwaves in a moment although that's not so much as power of as it is as it is meat and dairy um okay good now eggs talk about eggs for a moment do you need a special egg pot eggs are part of i'm not talking about eggs in terms of meat or dairy eggs are a parish even though they come from the chicken because the chicken is not meat so therefore remember what we said mida rice additively speaking chicken is power we treat poultry as meat because we end up thinking about it in the same category and if we allowed us to eat chicken and milk we'd come to eat meat and milk and that's why we're strict with chicken but strictly speaking biblically speaking poultry is really power that's why the eggs that come out of the chicken are powerful in other words you ever wonder how come an egg isn't flay chick if a chicken is flay chicks how come the egg's not flashing nobody ever thought of that question huh never kept you awake at night never thought about that while you were waiting for the egg to finish cooking why is it an egg flake chicks if it comes from a chicken and we treat the chicken it's fleshy the answer is the chicken is not flake chicks the chicken is really powerful we just treated his flame shake so we don't come to confuse meat with milk if we allowed poultry and milk but the egg is already once removed from the poultry so the fact that we allow you to have a cheese omelet is never going to lead to you having a hamburger a uh what do you call it hamburger and cheese what's that called cheeseburger thank you it's never going to lead to a cheeseburger so the egg is once removed so the egg thank you it's hard the egg is not the egg is not considered flake shakes what do you have to worry about however in the egg the egg is parish but what do you have to worry about about the egg blood spots now in the time of ghazal the blood spots in the egg were a legitimate fear why were the blood spots more of a legitimate fear because in a small farm where you're raising eggs it's very possible that the uh that the spot in the in the egg is actually a fertilized a fertilized chick and then you have a halal problem of eating the fertilized chick it's more than just a blood spot which is a humra it is a much more bona fide much more bona fide halacha uh i just lost my ah where'd it go um that is very different than today today our eggs are produced on farms where we're very we keep the the boys and the girls very separate on the farms they're very very from farms and we don't let them mingle they can't go on shabbos walks it could lead to mixed dancing we don't let them anywhere near each other so a blood spot in an egg for us from the places we get eggs from today are just a stringency however um and technically speaking you could remove the blood spot and eat the rest of the egg rabosha says today where eggs are so inexpensive in america where we're strict to throw out the whole egg not just a blood spot strictly speaking you could throw out the blood spot and eat the rest of the eat the rest of the egg there's an old european custom some of you may have it not that you're old europeans i don't mean to offend not there's anything wrong with being old european um there is a custom some have to maintain a special egg pot because in the case that the egg might have presented a cautious problem to have a special pot for eggs and there's an additional practice some have which is to only boil a minimum of three eggs at a time what's the rationale behind only boiling three eggs at a time this discussion is within halacha where this comes from but to simplify it for us for now bittel in case one of the eggs had a blood spot it would be one out of three nullified in the other two and you wouldn't have a problem in terms of the castrus of the pot and therefore some have a practice of only boiling a minimum of three eggs at a time so you have bitter nullification you would nullify the egg that was problematic however i checked with the boss in my house the posik in my house that ebbinson we do not have a designated egg pot and we're not strict to cook a minimum of three eggs at a time it is a practice some have it's not your customer practice you need not be strict with it what about fish do you need a designated fish pot or a designated fish pan in order to make fish and make sure that your fish remains powerful fish of course is paris fish also is an animal it's interesting the rabbis were worried that if we were allowed to have poultry and ch and and dairy we'd come to meat and dairy but they weren't worried that if you had fish and dairy you'd end up having you'd end up having meat and dairy and i think that that was reflective not only of the mentality of their time but reflective of the mentality of our time as well why because you are vegetarians who eat fish so they don't eat meat or poultry but somehow i know there's a name for that i forgot what it is but they nevertheless eat fish clearly they're categorizing fish differently than they do either meat or poultry thank you tara a pescetarian will eat the fish even if they won't eat the meat or the poultry so fish is its own category and our rabbis and our torah also saw fish as its own category fish is paruv so again meat is meat and milk is dairy poultry is biblically pariv but we treat it like meat and fish is biblically powerful and rabbinically powerful however we alluded to earlier it's the kind of power of that not because of kosher's concerns because of danger concerns we don't mix meat and fish so do you need a special utensil in order to make your fish so here again there are some who have the custom of a designated fish pot fish pan there's some more of the custom when they make fish they have a designated utensil fish pan pot rack they only make the fish on a designated utensil for fish however it's not necessary why so think about our reason because of our old friend not barnat our dear friend not by not saves the day why if i have a meat or a dairy pan call it a meat pan because there is not a problem if you're ashkenazi if i have a meat pot or pan or grill that i want to make fish on as long as it's entirely clean then it's not a problem to make the fish in there why because of what we call not bar not the meat will have gone in the pan it would have to come out of the pan into the fish that's twice removed that's not enough to create a problem and therefore i'm allowed to make fish in a perfectly clean meat pot or pan even if it's been used for meat within 24 hours even if it's been used for me within 24 hours i can't make dairy in there why because if the pot or pan had been used for meat within 24 hours and now i make dairy in there you know what i have busted i have a major biblical prohibition but fish is powerful so not by not it's not going to help me when it comes to actual meat and dairy but not not is bernat is going to help me when it comes to parif so i'm allowed to make fish fish which is neutral and is pariv can be made in a meat pot or pan what about a bbq barbecue or grill in theory it could the challenge is it has to be cleaned really really well and barbecue grills are really hard to clean well not only the racks but the cavity of the grill because if there's any actual meat residue that's producing steam of the meat that will mix with my fish i have a problem so it's a technical problem or challenge when it comes to the barbecue grill but at least theoretically if everything were clean not by not no saint tom bar no saint tom the fact that the meat taste is twice removed it's going to go from the meat into the pot from the pot into the fish twice removed is not powerful enough no saint tom by no said tom and therefore i will be okay so we spoke about fish which is power over neutral we spoke about eggs which are pariv and neutral but have some of their own halachas when they come to them we spoke about if i have power of utensils how i clean them either i can clean the power of utensil with a designated power of sponge in an empty sink and maintain and preserve its power status or if i rinse everything that goes in a dishwasher i can even put the power of in there and i will and i will be and i will be okay dairy equipment what is the status of power that's made on dairy equipment so what is dairy equipment we just spoke about dairy equipment is what we'll call not bar not so if i have something made on dairy equipment like mango sorbet there's mango sorbet that's delicious it's made on dairy equipment oh you doesn't have de the ou as a policy doesn't have a designation of dairy equipment sometimes from the ou writes oud they say d they really mean d e if it's o u d and it means d it's dairy and if it's bona fide legit dairy then you cannot have it after you have meat let alone with me but if it's not real dairy it's just dairy equipment then it comes back to our rules about not bar not no santanbar no st so sometimes you need to call the ou or you need to know somebody who has a connection at the ou to know what's really when it says d does it really mean dairy or does it mean dairy equipment for example aren't oreos i think oreos are another exception or they say dairy but they're made on dairy equipment and they can be eaten after a after a meat meal why can they be eaten after a meat meal when it says dairy equipment what is the status of dairy equipment dairy equipment means a power of food was made in dairy utensil so if the dairy utensil had not been used for 24 hours in theory i can even have it with meat on purpose but i don't know if that equipment had been used within 24 hours and not used within 24 hours a safari would be able to take power of made on dairy equipment and a safari would even be able to have it with meat and ashkenazi because it's possible the dairy equipment had been used for dairy within 24 hours can have it after me but not with me why because of no same time by nursing tom our old friend not by not when it comes to dairy equipment d e dairy equipment means dairy equipment there's no dairy ingredient but it was made on equipment it was made on a utensil that had previously absorbed dairy but now it's going to be twice removed if my gelato was made on equipment that previously made dairy the taste of the dairy had to go from the dairy into the utensil from the utensil into my sorbet or gelato by the time it gets in my gelato or sorbet it is so weak that in fact it's not called dairy it's called not bar not no centon by nursing time twice removed and therefore i'm allowed to i'm allowed to have that sorbet after a meat meal by the way for the same reason if i eat power of noodles made in a flaccid pot do i have to wait six hours to have dairy my milkshake that i call coffee no why not bar not no saint tom bar no saint tom my power of noodles that are made in a meat pot even if the meat pot had been used within 24 hours for meat it's twice removed by the time it gets to the noodles so that's enough that i shouldn't intentionally mix the noodles with dairy but the noodles don't have a real status of meat that require me to wait for 20 would require to make however long i wait for meat an hour three hours five hours or six hours it would not have a real status of meat that would require me to wait for six hours after the fact so we didn't really get to the onion maybe we'll do next time about an onion what happens if you cut an onion with a dairy knife and you put it in your meat food processor what happened if you cut an onion with a dairy knife and then you made your potato cocoa in your fleischer pan in your flakey oven these questions come up way too often so the onion complicates things enormously we'll get to that maybe in a future time the main lesson for tonight it's like sesame tree you know the letter of tonight the number of tonight is not bar not that is our hero for tonight not bar not no saint by no saint is what makes the life of power of worth living now if you understand that you could rely on nursing time by no saint if you understand that you can cook power of things in a meat or a dairy utensil that hadn't been used in 24 hours and it still gives you flexibility how to use it it still wouldn't make you meat even if it were made in a meat pot now you may come to the same conclusion which is it's not necessary to have power of utensils to me the only compelling reason to have pyrov is one part of knife to cut onions when you're not ready to make a commitment with the leftover onion if you're cutting an onion that you're not ready to make a commitment with it pays to have a power of knife with which you always cut the onion but other than that even if you use meat or dairy but you're cooking pariv the rules of knop are not will allow you to eat it with the opposite so let's go back to the way we begin you bake the cake and you want to eat some of that cake after your meat meal in shabbos but then have part of that cake on sunday morning with your with your cup of coffee with all that milk your milkshake coffee so how can you do that without a power of bundt pan is that what it's called no i'm just trying to impress you in flex but how do you do that without a power of pan the answer is even if you use the felicia pan to make that power of cake and you made it in a fleshy oven you'd be allowed to have it on sunday morning if the pan hadn't been used in 24 hours even with a cup of coffee if the pan had been used within 24 hours after or before the cup of coffee so you see that not bar not will save the day making it that you don't even necessarily need power of utensils all together because frankly it's very hard to keep power of utensils power of those power utensils often get mixed up they get mixed in they get washed with other things and it's very hard to maintain their sense of being part of sometimes all together my wife said it's a very short shear is there such a thing as power she said just say no and you'll be done after a minute you can come home and help finally but i chose to talk to you anyway nonetheless and keep going so you see there is such a thing as power of and it does have value however not by not will save the day to not necess to not necessarily need it pun intended everyone if you're watching uh not on zoom please join the midrash for the rest of the show room tonight they're fantastic classes that are coming up for the rest of the evening and you can find them at brsonline.org midrash beerus online.org midrash the next class is mrs amy horowitz followed by rabbitson taugher thank you so much for joining us tonight