From Fame to Frum: Alex Clare's Unbelievable Journey | Behind the Bima #187

Welcome back to Behind the Bea. My dear friend and colleague, Rabbi Moscowitz, Behind the Beam is back and it's back on a roll. >> Better than ever. >> I've been getting emails from people. They're so grateful. They say, "Thank you. I'm back." You know, people are creatures of habit and routine. And I guess whatever podcast you listen to, we're part of it. And I don't know about others, but I don't get a chance that often, but I try to go for a walk every day or when I drive, which is not often or far distances, but you open your podcast player, you have the podcast you subscribe to, and then they come up based on when a recent episodes come and the ones that haven't had a recent episode in a long time get pushed to the bottom and you wonder like what's going on. So, we were in the push to the bottom wonder what's going on. And we've had a great string, incredible guest, great conversations. If you haven't heard them, catch up. But it's always good to be back. And you know what the fun of it is? That we enjoy them. We're talking to people that we enjoy learning from and listening to. And you know, personally, I'm just learning a lot from a lot of these conversations. >> Yeah, me too. And and last week's episode, if you haven't heard it, make sure to catch it. Rabbi Gladstein, Rabbi Dell Gladstein, and he left me a message afterwards. He says, you know, I I relisted. I heard it. Now that it's out, I don't think I'm violating his confidence in this voice note. And he said, "Wow, you really caught me sort of unplugged and you let me get personal. That was great." So, he appreciated it. And if you somebody who you've read his forum and his books and you've heard his 13,000 talks online, you wonder who's the man behind that. That's our goal to have those kinds of conversations. >> And we had similar feedback from Ellie Beer. Ellie Beer, a lot of the questions we asked, he said, "hm, I've never been asked that before." That's a good question. Yeah. And that's kind of what we're trying to do, not catch people, but change the conversation. >> Well, the sign of a good interview or conversation is many of the people that we speak to have been on the podcast, but did you ask them a question? You say, "H, no one ever asked me that before." And and does it just feel like a comfortable conversation that people get to listen? >> Who gave us that advice the first time when we were talking about interviewing? Do you remember early on behind the bea? >> Nakam Seagull. >> Nakam Seagull. That's right. He was a guest on behind the >> bea on behind and you asked him a question. He said that what you have to do is get them to say something that they'll never say anywhere else and that's how you're going to, >> you know, make it uh popular. >> That is a great point. Now, that's not the highlight of your week because you sent me an image this week, Rabbi Goldberg, that you were very proud of it. And that was Rabbi Goldberg achieved inbox zero, which I don't I could count on in my hand the number of times that you have achieved that, but you achieved inbox zero. Yeah. >> Why Why are you so proud of that, Rabbi Goldberg? >> There's a big debate about inbox zero. I know you're a big believer. I want to hear what you have to say in a moment. Um, it's hard. First of all, inbox zero is like it's it's like chasing this goal that's running away from you because every time you get to inbox, for those who don't know, if anyone doesn't know, inbox zero is you have your email inbox emails that come in, you respond to them, delete them, file them, and when there's nothing in your inbox, there's a message that says inbox zero. And we use Outlook, Microsoft Outlook. It's like a little muzzle message like congratulations coming down. >> Confetti. It's a big moment and it feels really good. You've like cleared the deck. Have you ever straightened up or cleaned your house? Everything's clean. You feel really good. Your desk. So that's virtually your inbox. It's like it's clear. It's clear. Everything's been answered or filed or deleted. It's clear. The challenge out of it is how absolutely impossible it is to maintain. >> Shortive. >> Like I I have to take the screenshot to send you. >> By the time you open my screenshot, there's more emails. >> Now, now we play a joke on each other sometimes because the second he sends me the inboxer image, what is the first thing I do? I send you an email just to ruin it for >> just to clog the inbox. So is should it be a goal and is it really a goal? Why why does it mean a lot to you inbox zero? >> So So I believe and this is based on Kelmus or like there is Torah behind it. But I really believe that external orderliness and cleanliness is a reflection of how you feel on the inside. So I could say for myself and I did not grow up this way. You could ask my brother who I shared room with for many years and I was a disaster and kept the place a complete mess. But as I've gotten older, I've appreciated cleanliness and I've appreciated what it's done for me internally. So whether it's a clean room, whether it's a clean desk, we're going behind the bea, I cannot start writing a drussia until my desk is spotless because I know I will not have the headsp space to be able to be creative and clear if there's mess on my desk. >> What about the people who say it's organized chaos? You know, I've got some piles of papers. I've got things. I have a lot of things and it's organized. I know where it is and it's not. It looks like a mess, but it's not in my head. I mean, how do you get to that point that your we'll come back to inbox zero, but how do you get to the point that your desk is clear? I mean, this there's post-it notes, there was notes on a conversation, there's the phone number that you wrote down, there's this druss, there's this piece of Ashir that you found or, you know, a Torah that you copied. >> So, listen, different things work for different people. And I'm sure there's someone who who has a chaotic >> way of thinking and for them, the chaos generates that creativity. It happens to be not for me. For me, I need that external ordininess. >> But how do you do it? What are the mechanics of it? How are there no papers on? >> If I have if I have an email that's sitting in my inbox forget forget no because it's all the same for email. Tell me desk first. >> Desk has got to be clean. I have almost where do you put everything is filed away online. Everything's virtual for you. Every if I'm taking a picture of it I'm filing away. I have a piece of paper with notes that I have that changes over one or two days but that's it. There's nothing else on my desk. Now again, maybe >> so again, we're going behind the beam rabbit because I want to push you because >> So when you're on the phone with someone, you're taking some notes on that conversation. Yeah. >> Do you type them up? Do you take a a picture of them >> and then you can throw it out? Like your goal is to throw it out. >> My goal is to get rid of all the paper. And if there's paper there, then I then it then it's >> Have you moved from paper to now just being scattered and chaotic virtually? Meaning, is your phone or computer just filled with various like file? Not like you took picture, you saved this, but you don't. >> No, because I have a filing system and you and I both have filing systems, but I have a filing system that's searchable and I can find almost anything anywhere. The thing that I find very hard, and I know you relate to this as well, is WhatsApp >> because WhatsApp is the variable here. >> I don't get nearly as many as you do, but we're getting hundreds of WhatsApp messages a day. And as opposed to inbox zero, you know, an inbox and Outlook where it's there, you can follow it, you can track it, and then you can get rid of it. If you're in a meeting like we're recording right now, when we're done, you and I are gonna turn on our phones. We're gonna have 100 messages. Y there's no way to get back to all of them at the same time. You might see a message and want to come back to it and then all of a sudden there's just a clutter in your WhatsApp messages and that's what I find very difficult and I know you you agree with that as well. >> I do. It's complicated. You mark on red if there's something you still need to get back to. Now, we're both on the same page. I think that when we see someone's phone where there people not not in my immediate family, it's not my wife or kids, but there people in my family who if you look at their phone, their WhatsApp says 13,222. >> Yeah. I'm like I start sweating breaking out in hives. We have colleagues, we have a former colleague who you and I both love dearly who never deleted an email and they would have like 36,452 emails in their inbox and I I would literally have anxiety just watching. >> I need a clear notifications. It doesn't mean I answered every email, but I need a clear notifications. I've seen everything. I now Okay, I triage this is who know first. This I'm going to get to. This is going to take some work. Schedule it. I've also started using a lot um the snooze on email. Yes. So I get an email and I say that's not relevant. We have a we have a based in for Gus. Our incredible administrator Alana will send out um in advance the files of the people that we're meeting the schedule of that day. So I just snooze it till the morning of that meeting because I don't want to see it. I don't want it clogging up the inbox. It'll come back that day. I know I need it. I don't want to have to look for it. So you can snooze an email, have it come back. I found it to be a great great >> So I'll do that. I'll schedule it. So, for example, if she sends a a schedule an appointment, I'll put that in the appointment so that when it pops up and says 15 minutes, you have a basa meeting, the email's there with all the bios and you can pull it right then instead of it just popping in at 7:00. >> Yes, I schedule emails to myself and I snooze emails to come back when I need them. But all towards the goal of getting reducing and consolidating the inbox to only what still needs to be addressed. So, like you said, if if I'm scheduling to deal with this later, then I snooze it or I resend it to myself scheduled later. I want the inbox to just be what's left sort of today. What's in front of me that I need? >> Now, what about you? Cuz you you have a little bit more on your desk than I do. >> Yeah. >> How do you balance everything, have that organized chaos, create that creativity, but also a sense of orderliness? >> I'm still a paper person. Um I'm not like papers everywhere and going crazy. >> But you keep hard copies of Drushes. I don't. >> Yeah. Yeah, I I have my file cabinets and I have a file for every shear and every drush I've given. And now >> how many times on Shabas have you had to run to that those full? >> No, I'm saying that's I also I'm a visual person. So this is really buying the BMA like I just gave a para share today. So my para begin I today I opened up whatever para it is. We're putting this out. I open up that para I have a file and in that file I have all the dresses I've given but I've also had um printouts of other things I've seen that caught my eye that I like that are someone else's newsletter that's whatever it's all in there I also have for every year for the precious year I don't the only thing I write down in the parish shear is the pock and who it was so you know parasol so I'll look at last year's and say what didn't I get to because that's okay half of this week's half of this year's part is prepared because it's what I didn't get to last year and I won't get to this year's and that now I'm mostly prepared for next year. But I want to be able to I'm going to sham going this past week spoke under a speak have an unveiling have a funeral. I open that file. I just start if I have to keep like opening files online it would be very tedious to me whereas turning papers >> again maybe that's just a stylistic difference. I like being able to search it. So let's say I'm giving a speech about happiness or I'm >> both by the way. I type out my brushes so it's all online also >> right? But this can scan PDF. So, I could put in any word and it'll scan all of my files, tell me exactly when I've spoken about it, if there's an article about it. That's why I prefer it. The challenge is if you need me on Chabis Morning off the cuff, I'm going blind because I don't have any in my files whereas you do. >> Yeah, I could still upgrade much better. I'm not or meaning even the things that I have digitally, they're not organized, pathetically. So, should I make an admission right now that I'm really embarrassed by? >> Listen, hold on. I have a drum roll, please. Yeah. No, it's it's it's actually unbelievably humiliating and deeply upsetting and I still haven't corrected it. I've been writing articles every week. I don't know, let's say in an average year of 52 weeks, I probably write 45 between 40 and 45 articles and I've been doing that now for I don't know 15 years. There's hundreds and hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of article. I I didn't save them. I don't have them organized. I sort of put them up online and then >> you don't have them in a file. >> No. No. And it's on my list. I want you to know the longer I procrastinate here though, the better off I am. I'll tell you why. >> Because AI. >> Because I tried it with AI recently. I said, "AI download, organize, and index every article that you can find online from Efron Goldberg." >> So, you're basically hoping that technology gives you the ability to >> technology will repair and correct and catch me up. I hope. >> Wow. >> Otherwise, I so unlike you though. >> Yeah. I I don't know why there's a mental I just didn't >> Is it that because you fell behind and then at that point you just wrote it off and said >> and even though I've been upset about it for years I'm like well it's too late. What am I going to start organizing them now? >> I didn't know that about you. >> It's terrible. It's terrible. >> You don't write an article and immediately put it in a file. >> No, it's terrible. And I and I should I should organize even on folders some articles about Israel or politics or or or personal growth or MIDIOS or you know could be read on diverse things. Now, we're seeing some amazing things happen with AI. I know we have some friends who are working on that for Torah based stuff. Yes. And how it's ability to >> Sofur.AI. Let's give a big shout out to Zack at sofer.ai. We've been partnering with him and working on things together. >> I know. >> So, what are some of the the things that they're able to do that's enhancing Torah learning? >> Um, so far it's not enhancing it for the I mean, Sofur.ai is enhancing it for anybody who goes there. Um, but I've been partnering to I now have transcriptions of every paras I've given. >> Wow. So hundreds and hundreds of transcriptions that in itself is useful. Not as useful as I hope they're word for word transcripts. >> They are. So and the the difference between silver.ai and the other AI platforms out there is that Zach, this incredible guy programmed it to recognize Hebrew language and to be familiar with it. So not only does it accurately get a kazal, it will link hyperlink can produce a source sheet out of what you quoted. It's extraordinary. Um, I didn't appreciate when you read a transcription of the shear you gave, how unenjoyable it is to read. It's not readable. It's not readable. Right? We repeat ourselves. We build up. We The way we present something orally is so different than the way we do written. So the next thing he did is actually he has a feature now that has the transcription and then it says create a summary of the transcription which is the organized summary. And then the other thing that it has which is amazing is it has an AI like you can ask a question to it. So if I say um please bring up any reference to Shvraas Chevus Torah, it'll pull from the hundreds of par. I'm doing it now for the amunir sitter snippets. I'm going to do also and then you basically create a Google to your own life to all the you've given and then it can create outlines from it >> and it can do it in your voice. So if you say based on everything I've said about Chevraas, can you create an outline in my own voice based on the things that I would say for X? >> I I I gave a talk recently about Rabbit Titz, his 30th site. Very I'm very proud of the talk and I did work on it. >> Um and I and I'm honored that his family felt I captured who he was. But I also used it to talk about what I think rabbis need to be. We've discussed that here also behind the Beimma. I had given two previous talks on the 25th side of Rabbi of Rabbi Tites and a people of the book here. So I was like I Rabbi Tites passed away 30 years ago. There's nothing new at least that I know I'm going to learn about him. How do I how do I not start from scratch? I'm preparing this talk on Rabbi Tites. Maybe I shouldn't be admitting this out loud. I took both links. I put it in AI and I said create an outline and summary based on these two talks about Rabbi Tites. What I found and then I from there that was my starting point. It got me to like the 50 yard line because then I found Torah for each of the things I wanted to highlight. I had eight separate things I wanted to highlight. But I wasn't like what? Okay, let me reread a book about Rabbi Tites. >> But does that make you nervous? Because if you did that, I could do that to you, too. I could go into AI and say, I'm going to put in 500 sheer of Rabbi Goldberg in all of his articles and I'm going to basically download your brain onto me and I don't need to learn anymore, create anymore. I'm just going to use everything you did and use it for my drushes, my sheerum, and my articles. >> It makes me nervous. Not so nervous because there are many, many, many, many, many greater people that people will do that to than me. >> But they could do it to all of them. do that with everybody. Do that with a lot of other people. First of all, do it. Enjoy it and God bless because the Torah Hashem gave me or through me. I, you know, not everybody around me agrees with this um or is happy. My my feeling always is Hashem provides and when I share it freely like people copy, plagiarize, borrow, attribute articles, dashas, stories and it never bothers me. It's all your even when people tell me like can I put this? I say you use it. You don't even have to say it by my name because I feel like the more generous I am with you feel take feel to take anything more generous Hashem will be with me. So feel free to use AI to to do that. I I'm not resting on that. Meaning I'm never going to get to a point which is like AI write a dresser for me because I'm tired and I need the week off. >> Well, that's a dangerous place. >> But I'm not going there. I I don't believe I'll ever get there. And even with that talking by tights, my goal wasn't like let me outsource this work because I previously my goal was let me not spend time and energy where I don't need to. So I still gave it my spin and I still chose the things I wanted to highlight about him and I still found the div Torah for each one of those and I still turned it into a charge for what I think rabbis need to be doing today. None of which AI could have done because that was still in my brain and my creativity. But it just it gave me the head start to it so that I wasn't spending time on things I don't need to. >> Well, there are a lot of people that are obviously nervous about AI. I keep coming back to when the printing press was created, the the most nervous people, the biggest opposition was from the Protestant church and they were nervous about what happens when we empower the masses and give them knowledge. What's it going to do to religion? And I think history has proven that the printing press was a pretty good thing. So, I think there'll be bumps along the road with AI, but listen, the Torah has survived this long. It's going to continue. >> I agree. The jury is still out. We can end it here on whether inbox zero should be a goal. A lot of the productivity people that you and I read or listen to or admire say that that's a distraction that there is not a goal that's an impossible fleeting goal that you can never achieve it. Like you'll never get to the point where you're like I can shut it down. We just made a semim and of course means I'm going to come back to you but there's a feeling like I close the book >> seven half years I'll say >> and write I'll come back to you but like for now I close it. You never close your inbox. That's the point. >> Let me play out that example. >> Hold on. But let me phrase it this way. Given that you can't have inbox zero for less than a for any more than a millisecond, is it worth having at all? >> Okay. Do you shower? Do you brush your teeth? Are your teeth going to get dirty again? Are you going to get So, what's what's bon showering if you're going to get dirty again 5 minutes later? The answer is that when you come out of that shower and you feel clean, it's an amazing feeling. When you brush your teeth and it feels fresh and white, that's an amazing feeling. I feel that same thing with Inbog Zero. So, yeah, in 20 minutes, are 50 emails going to come in again? Yeah, but for those 20 minutes, I am I'm I'm living large. That's a fair answer. That's a fair answer. I accept that. I accept that. Like I said though, productivity people still think that it's a distraction. It's shouldn't necessarily be a goal. >> Could it be that there's no one answer for everybody? >> Yeah, everyone's different. >> Like what works for me might not work for you. We have other friends that are very successful who have millions of emails, right? >> And I think you just have to know yourself and what allows you to be creative. >> I will say this though, whether you believe in inbox zero or you're comfortable with notifications at like 15,000, you can't miss and not answer emails. I mean, that's the bottom line, >> right? And that's what makes WhatsApp. >> You could be at inbox zero because you deleted everything. You didn't answer anyone and you could have 15,000 but you really got back to the people who you needed to get back to. So it's it's not about the core issue is not whether you're at inbox zero or you have a billion notifications. Is being responsive. You got to get back to people. >> That's what makes WhatsApp so difficult because it's it's so much more difficult to track dozens and dozens of message. >> Who am I getting back to? Who am I not? I don't know about you. Sometimes I'll sit there at the end of the day and I'll just take 10 minutes and go through my whole WhatsApp message and I'll just say, "Did I miss anything throughout the day? Did I glance over everything and I'll go?" >> We can talk about this another time because I want to get to our guests. But I'm actually struggling at this point. And I'm not saying this is like a flex, but you know, I'm older. I'm white. I've been this a few years and now we reach a lot of people. Like at what point is it not reasonable to think you can get back to every email? And how do you create the hierarchy? Right? You have family, you have shul members, you have like is it everybody? Anybody who gets your email if it's one word, if it's a sentence, if it's reading right now, I get back to everybody. I'm going to get emails from people I didn't get back to. And if you do, if I didn't get back to you, please do email me because I try to and think I get back to everybody. Well, I sent a message once to a very prominent rabbi who we know who's a big internet personality as well, has lots of shar online and I had a question on one of his shir and I thought he could help me in something that I was going through and I received back a very sweet email that basically says there's no way I can get back to everybody. If it's an emergency, call 911. If not, basically lose my number because I can't I'm busy learning, teaching, and counseling people closest to me and I can't deal with everybody around the world. >> So, so are we saving this for another conversation or >> we could save We could we could that could be the teaser. >> Okay. Yeah, let's come back to that. >> It's a deep conver there's a lot there. >> It is. It is there. >> There's a lot there. >> That person is probably like writing a lot of books and doing a lot of things. >> Not writing books, but produce a ton of shar. >> But it's the it's the art of saying no. Meaning they've chosen to say no so they could say yes to other things. >> And I want you to know I was >> when you said yes to everything then then >> I wasn't offended by it. I was I was annoyed personally because I I really felt he could have helped me with my question. But I got it. I it was written in a very respectful way. consider like like you know um the governor of Florida. I'll call him out by name. When he was a congressman running for governor, I had his text his cell phone number. He would text me. I texted him. He came to my house for a chabas meal and he was elected governor and that was it. >> He lost your number very quickly. >> He No, he he had to he changed his number. I didn't have access to him anymore. I saw him a couple times since then and he still recognized me and that was nice. But I lost access. And at first I want you to know there's a piece of me that's like whoa when you needed me when you were running for governor when you were a local congressman. And now and on the other hand yeah that that's what he needed to become governor. But if I want him to govern Florida so we have vouchers and we have no tolerance for hate. >> Can't be responding to Goldberg's >> can't be responding to Goldberg. So you know I get it. It's frustrating but also >> but I think there's something deeper there about why you don't do that and that's what's going to be for next time. >> Okay. But for now, we're excited to bring you not Alex Cla, Rabbi Alex Cla, who recently got his smika and um we kept him close, too close, but he's the greatest. We're really excited to bring you the conversation with Rabbi Alex Cla. >> Big welcome back to Alex Cla. So excited to have you join us with a major change since the last time you were here. We spent last Kaneka together a little over a year later >> and last time you were Alex Cla and now you are Rav Alex Cla, Rabbi Alex Cla. You are ordained with >> smika. >> Tell us about it. >> Well, I spent a long long time in yeshiva. I spent the last 10 years or so more or less in in the sort of natural uh outcome of that is to focus on getting a smika. So >> yeah. >> Amazing. >> Yeah. >> And what was the motivation? >> I really want to learn to limo for its own sake and I wanted to get the scholish out the way you know. So I thought you know what get that done if I can help people in the process then >> you know. But is the aspiration to serve as a community rabbi? >> I sort of do I sort of do I sort of do already as a as a mishp. So we have this situation in London called Belm um which is you know deeply rooted in the tours of Israel bashm um to inspire yen to give them a place where they can come and learn and for and to have a you know on El Shushi etc. And uh that's kind of the mission right now. That's the goal to just make a place where the tourists of Bashm can be uh taught and learned and lived in London. And do you find there's a growing population in London that's looking for that and craving that? >> It's funny because you know in London everyone's an anacle. Everyone is a descendant of some reba. I mean everyone they'll tell you. But the actual sort of the dissonance between the tourist alm and the fact that everyone has that deep connection anyway. Um we're trying to bridge that gap because it's it's there. It's there. But London is you know probably renowned for being very very English. Even the most you know heish and traditional sections of you know you know orthodoxy the world in London can be very very English. need to like, you know, there's warm things up a little bit. >> Is that what people are looking for? Sorry. Is that what people are looking for? They're looking for warmth. In other words, we've had so much Torah, a proliferation of Torah over the last number of years, but clearly this like whole pania balmtoidus is resonating certainly here in America. >> Is that what they're looking for in London? They're just looking for this closeness, for the sense of community. I think people have done the the the hows for years you know learning learning Tory keeping um we need to give people more wise you know why are we doing it what's the meaning behind it what's the message what's the inspiration you know nowadays where we have we probably you know historically in terms of cashmreas material possessions we never really had it better and now we have more time to sort of become anxious and neurotic and really double down on the things that are challenging to us and I think to alm gives us the ability to help deal with ourselves, deal with our own struggles, and deal with why we're doing this. >> But you're making change. Anytime that you're trying to push change, >> there's resistance. >> Have you found resistance? And I don't want We're not speaking negatively about the London community, but just in general and extrapolating to other people and places that are advancing the Pmius perspective. Have you met resistance of people say, "Alex, that's not like stick to the music. Like that's not how we do it here. That's not our minog. That's not our misora." You just stick with, you know, >> you do get you will get that. inevitably um I think 20 years ago things would have been a lot a lot harder with this situation. People would have you know sort of turned their noses up at it. Um but the truth is that you know the amount of sort of the more accepted rabonim in London who end up coming to the place of a bra and to hang out you know it's it's a good sign. >> Now do you see a crossover between that and your music? In other words there's music that you've written for years for example about how um you'll have that initial spark and then things get difficult. I know you've written songs about that. Are you able to now connect that to in a way that's maybe some other people >> you're saying the songs from before >> before right the early part of the right I think you know our goal is to try and see the hashka in every detail of our life to see the adm in every detail of our life >> and um applied is really just giving us the ability to have that you know connection and awareness of godliness. What what was it like? I'm really curious about this and we're going to get into your story and even though it's been told so many times and in so many places, it hasn't been told here on behind the MIMA. >> Okay. >> And and there still are maybe a few people who don't know it and it's worth repeating. >> Um but before we do, I want to ask it to you sort of backwards which is >> what was it like to have left London and I know you were already studying and growing and on your way when you went to yeshiva. Obviously that's what drew you to leave London but you left London >> a musician, an artist. Yeah. >> You had gained a certain prominence and you were on your way. Okay. You were a performer. You mixed in a uh London music community. Sure. >> You dated some high-profile musicians and and were known publicly. And you left with one persona and you left with one appearance. >> Yeah. >> And you left for 10 years. >> Yeah. >> You went and you studied, you learned Israel in Israel and you came back mish like a whole new person. >> Yeah. >> Like a different person. >> I wish that I wish that was true. >> Yeah. >> The reality is that you're always the same person. You know, you can you just have to refine what Hashem's given you already. And uh you know, sometimes we get it right, sometimes we get it disastrously wrong, but it's a process. It's a process. >> But what was it like leaving London one way? The same person and the same person but refined coming back a little bit of a different way. Like when you came back to London? Yeah. >> Did you go back to >> any of those friends, any of the musical community, any of the places you performed, any of the people you were with? Is there a piece of you that still felt or feels connected and attached to them? >> To the world of music? Of course. like I'm a musician and um that creative outlet is you can't really get rid of that and there is a certain synergy and presence that I feel when I'm performing music that I don't really get anywhere else like that is still very much a part of who I am. Um, that being said, obviously there's associations, you know, with with within that world that are pretty negative. And I, you know, I think I've I wouldn't say I've burnt those bridges, but I put gates on them. >> And, you know, I don't necessarily uh have the desire to to go back to that world. >> Um, it's it's there. It's there. I think about it, >> see it, and um, you know, there's it's I think it's all about what what you need to validate your own ego. And at the minute I don't really I don't really need that. Don't need that. >> So tell tell us more about that because that fascinates me. Right. There's a lot of people watching and listening who say, "Alex Claire, yeah. >> Your song Too Close because I just checked on YouTube is at 101 million views on Spotify. It's still streaming >> a million streams a month. >> A million streams a month. Yeah. >> So there's the Alex Claire 100 million views. A million streams a month. Still 2011 it came out. What year? >> Yeah. 2011. >> 2011. So we're talking a long time ago. Mhm. >> And it's still being downloaded a million streams a month. There's that Alex Clair and then there's Rabbi Alex Cla. And I know they're not two separate people. >> Same same person. >> It's the same person. But just in terms of um how it's perceived or the public receives. And so there are a lot of people watching listening saying Alex Cla like he was on the verge if not had already entered the world of greatness. He was a world famous musician. His music's being downloaded a million times. He was part of a community, a network award-winning. He could have been on stage, could have been performing, could have had a life. And he gave it all up for this beard and pineas and the bashm and smika and and and what you just tinted to, but please please like explain it more was that maybe that filled you in one way and you don't need it to fill you in that way. >> What's filling you differently? What's filling you instead? What wasn't ever really filling you? How do you tell other people who have talent and skill but dream of fame and fortune that that's not the goal and that the goal is really inside yourself >> externally that world is very validating >> very very validating you know it's you know one pats you back and tells you no it's wonderful well done until they don't and then they shoot you down and then you have to go on this sort of roller coaster of uh you know emotional dysregulation um the truth is you know there's a concept in by the mukb they say tanuk tanuk that constant pleasure is no pleasure and if you're living in a state of um you know constant delight and you're seeking that you'll never actually appreciate or enjoy it really you know just stay on a on a high then you'll have a crash and you'll feel absolutely awful um I think the reality is is that focusing on spiritual pursuits and trying to be close to a college bar and to have a sense of the vakus you know there's obviously good days and bad days and there's days where you feel closer and days you feel, you know, you're being pushed a little bit. Um, but there's a lot more meaning there. There's a there's a much bigger, you know, why to be asked in that space. >> Can I just drill a little bit deeper to that question because I think what Rabbi Goldberg's touching upon is what so many teenagers and young adults in our world are grappling with, which is a social media world. Yes. which is a world that looks at likes and clicks and Instagram and Tik Tok and there's so much external validation and yet we know that on the inside so many young people are struggling with anxiety and depression and self-esteem issues. >> What what message from your life because what you just described I think is the antidote. What would you tell someone younger who lives in that social media world? What would be your message to them to break them out of that cycle to help them realize that there's an inner world that they could seek that'll give them much more might not give them as much fame but will give them a lot more fulfillment? >> Get off your phone and go for a run >> is what I'd say. As simple as that. Just put your phone down. You don't need constant validation. Your body can't live with that level of serotonin and dopamine constantly coming into your brain. It's really really unhealthy. Unfortunately, it's necessary that we stay connected and we convince ourselves that we need those validating, you know, likes and subscriptions and uh you know, in many careers, they're important for promotion and etc, etc. But, um, you know, don't uh, you know, you got to see the woods for the trees and to understand although although that's a useful tool, um, it will create anxiety and an addiction. You know, an addiction is uh, feels great while you're while you're up, but when you're not. How do you teach that to someone who's never tasted it? In other words, for >> gonna they're probably gonna have to taste it. >> How would someone have gotten that through the Alex CLA on its way up? The Alex Cla was fighting through to break into the industry. Someone would have stopped you and said, "Careful what you wish for because this isn't really what's going to do it." You probably wouldn't have heard it then. >> You needed to be in a space and a place. >> I needed Yeah, I needed to get there. I needed to get there and I got there and uh I I was, you know, before I before I got there, I was willing to give it all up. And I had given it all up. walked away from the music industry and then >> went to yeshiva and while I'm in yeshiva suddenly a song of mine becomes uh you know >> let's go back let's tell us we've been we've been pushing off we're avoiding it but but we can't we can't avoid it any longer so tell us again where where you born when >> born in London >> born in London southeast London um >> I was a musician as a kid I I played in you know drums in bands and guitars in bands and um decided as a teenager that I wanted to be a professional musician I wanted to be a you know play in bands originally I didn't want to be a songwriter or or an artist I just wanted you know, hang out and play music. >> Any religion in your life as a kid? >> Not really. Not really. Very uh very superficial. Very superficial. Occasional strolls into the local reform shaw in in Brmley, but you know that's it really. >> Um and then always had a ma like always believed in Hashem and had never had like a safake in that area. Never had doubts. I always felt like Hashem was there and real and you know whatever deep existential questions I had which were few um I could find the answers you know fairly easily within myself. if I didn't uh it wasn't wasn't really part of the the big struggle for me. I think um as a teenager my aspirations were to be uh you know to be a musician and to play and I lived that life you know from the age of 15 I was already playing in bands and in those you know early 2000s in London was a great time to be a musician really you know the amount of my peer group who went on to you know musical success and greatness um it's disproportionate like the rest of the world >> you know you know bands like Florence the machine and Mford and Sons and you know people who became massive Adele, various others. Um, all >> they were they were in your network. That was your friend. >> All within the greater circle of I wouldn't necessarily say my friend group, but the social group. Social group for sure. Social setting. >> Or you were going to the same >> the same clubs, same uh club nights, same bars, you know, that's that was that that world. Um, and you know, I grew up in an area where Jewish community was tiny. You're always kind of the other. And then I moved to North London to Camden Town where the music scene was. And suddenly my circle of friends became a lot more Jewish which was uh which was great and I never felt like >> what age is this? >> 18 18 19 pretty young you know on me. >> What was happening around you at that time parents teachers family was anyone saying Alex you know like were they cheering you on and just go do it and doesn't matter what time you come home. >> I left home I left home more or less when I was 17 >> and I didn't come back like I was you know I was out there and uh living that life of um an itinerate musician really. Uh yeah, wild. I think about it. Unbelievable. You know, my my my oldest child is now, you know, Bas Mitzvah. She's 12. And I think, you know, just in a few years to think of her being out there in such a place like it's it's really scary. It's really scary. And uh it was scary. Like it was really really wild. And I, you know, I had way too much freedom as a kid, way too much freedom as a kid, and really pushed the envelope as much as I possibly could. And being in that world of like, you know, rock and roll is uh, you know, it's a very open and uh, not necessarily the healthiest place to be. >> Um, but very attractive when you're 17, 18 years old. A lot of fun, a lot of adventure, a lot of risk, you know, a lot of excitement. So, I moved to uh, Northwest London Condom. And between, you know, rocking and rolling and hanging out with various uh celebrities and, you know, people of of note, um there was just a little little core of of beautiful Yidden. Um and I started, you know, going to occasional occasional Shabas meals, I got invited to YTOV and friends of mine. And slowly but surely, I just started uh thinking, you know, this is quite nice. This is pretty beautiful. >> And um >> why did you agree to go? Like I would have thought those worlds collided. I would have thought it's he doesn't love chicken soup on a Friday night, you know. >> And you didn't feel like I could be hanging out with these famous people. Why am I hanging out with >> I did afterwards. I go to like Friday, Friday night. And they weren't religious fanatics. You know, in England, the majority of Jewish people in England are traditional. They might not be Shamash Shabas. >> Um but you know, the Shaw they go to is an Orthodox Shaw when they do go or the Shaw they don't go to an Orthodox >> So you started by getting the best of both worlds. >> Yeah, for sure. And um started learning more. I decided that I really had to learn. I felt like learning Hebrew was important. Um, so I started uh started doing that and that sort of spiral into learning Nak and Mishna and uh as an autodidact really on my own just because it was something to do. Um, and you know, after a while of, you know, going through a pretty hedonistic and wild period that was, you know, incredibly emotionally disruptive, um, I decided that I really needed something authentic and real. And I left I left Camdomtown, which was the, you know, the hipster hub, and moved to Stampil, which is the Cassidic hub of London. >> Um, a big >> Same beards, just different. >> Exactly. Exactly. same beards just uh you know slightly different outlook on life. >> Yeah, the clothes are different. >> Yeah. and the hats. But yeah, so I uh I I moved to San Batil and then slowly but surely started keeping Shabas and at that same sort of time um was getting courted by the you know record industry to make an album and I did got signed to Island Records and got sent to Jamaica and to New Orleans to work with uh you know various you know big shop producers and made an album came back to London and uh released the album and it didn't do much. it didn't do much and the assumption from the record label was you know even though you know was they put a you know substantial amount of money behind it and were getting you know good promotional opportunities I had to turn a lot down because they were on Friday nights or Shabas and um as a result after a while you know the record label basically dropped me they fired me because I kept Shabas and I wouldn't take these opportunities and it was very very difficult time in my life you know having you know being a an itinerant musician who doesn't really have his own apartment to suddenly having you know money and an apartment and a career to have that suddenly taken away from you um you know essentially because you keep Shabbat. >> Did you waver on it? >> Yeah. I just want to pause there for a second because >> you tell the story is it like yeah I was at a major record label and then I gave it up because of Chabas and it was like a little hard and you know that is like >> very English heroic. Let's just pause there for a second because I've heard your story and I've heard interviews with you and every time I hear that story it just it's more and more amazing every time and you refer to this like yeah it was a little difficult. >> I would imagine it was more than a little and I would imagine your friends thought you were crazy and I would imagine there were lots of ups and downs. >> The reason why I want to push on that a little bit is because I don't want to fantasize that decision for people like oh Alex was this and he changed and and like changing is so easy. I would imagine changing is not easy. >> Sure. And I want to dig a little deeper and what does that mean to have ups and downs to waver to question yourself to go through such a change and then apply it to anything that anyone else would be going through? >> I'll follow up just was it linear meaning when you decided I'm keeping Shabas was it just straight and record labor goodbye everything else goodbye and and obviously you don't have to be too personal if you don't want but but were there ups and downs? Was there like one Shabas where you're like let me I'm going backwards a little bit. was which is and I say that also because right our conversations here and the reason we do that is the people listening >> really starting with us and then everyone else are looking for our own inspiration in other people's stories so if we waver if we have doubts you know is life only linear like once you're in you're in and you're not allowed to ever go back or it's okay that there's ups and downs >> at that time I was madly in love you know with with a college bar and with Shabas and it was it was it was it was very challenging because I you know being a musician was everything I'd worked towards And you know it's something that's uh very very existential. Um nevertheless when you are in love you're willing to do some pretty crazy things and I've always been a pretty impulsive person. So for me to keep Shabas um and to maintain that relationship was 100% the most important thing in my life. >> Uh thank God that was a kayak that I was given at the time and though there was definitely an assign it was definitely a struggle. Um, you know, shortly afterwards after, you know, the comeback and after Too Close became a massive hit. I remember one Friday night, I got offered a gig at the Polish embassy randomly in London. Like $100,000 they offered me to play a show. I never had a feel like I've never had a feel like that since we're playing a show. And I remember just the Sima I had, I was like, "Thank you, Hashem. Thank you, Hashem, for that Nissan." Like, "Thank you." Because I, you know, up until that point, it's you sometimes doubt the bratus. And then you suddenly see these moments where it's such a clear nion that it's so easy to walk back. There's no yates. The yates doesn't even get involved. So arguably it's not really argu arguably it's not really an assign because there's no challenge there. Um I think the nion the challenge you know comes when there is that that deep deep struggle and although it was difficulty um at the time that sense of just being completely in love and um focused made it you know pretty easy. What did you have to overcome? Agent, family, friends. Were you saying you're nuts? >> Yes. That was the hardest thing is that it burnt it burnt bridges and it made it made it difficult in terms of my professional relationship with people and struggling with, you know, other people's um disappointment, which is hard, you know, it's hard when there's people you care about and people you work with and you, you know, you rely on and then they're disappointed that you've made these decisions. That's that's the challenge. That's difficult. Um, you know, that's that's you'd be inhuman if you didn't find that difficult, >> right? >> You talk a lot about being in love with Hashem and just if the camera could see your eyes, you like lit up the second you said that. >> One of the challenges, I think, is that a lot of people talk about loving Hashem. It's very easy when you have everything in life and to say, "Oh, you know, thank you, Hashem. I love Hashem." >> For you to say that while you're making this decision that's altering your life, >> is to me that much more extraordinary. >> Define that love of Hashem. Was it this just inner sense? Was it this connection? Like a lot of people struggle for that. And for you, it almost sounds like it came so easily that it caused this lightaltering decision. >> I think the easiest the easiest way to put it is if you know someone loves you, it makes it a lot easier to love them. And uh you know, if sometimes they feel distant from you, but you know that love is still there, it makes you you have that chuka that that yearning is even stronger. Um, and you know the BMTO says that a small that the left hand pushes and the right hand brings close is that to know that even when you feel like you're being pushed BTO says that you have to know that you can only push someone if you're incredibly close to them and when you feel those pushes from Hashem it's just an awareness that he's that much closer to you and you know the Ezra says on on the Benuri Israel Israel is my firstborn son that um Ezra says that loves you more than than a father could love his only child. The person has to know that and believe it and have no doubt about that whatsoever that whatever you are struggling with or going through to know that Hashem loves you um infinitely more than you could ever imagine and you can reciprocate that if you know that you have to you have to know it. Yeah, it's very important. >> So you overcome all these uh voices telling you you're crazy, don't give up this career, you're nuts, but you stuck with it because you're madly in love with Hashem. I think he's he's madly in love with us. You know, that's what you have to know. It's not that I'm madly in love with Hashem. It's that, you know, have to really know >> because you're in a love affair. Yeah. In in a mutual love affair, which is such a beautiful way of putting it. A lot of people have made a lot of difficult choices to start keeping Shabas. And they talk about a day of rest, a day to disconnect, a day of this. Yeah. They leave out the Hashem and they certainly leave out the love. So, that is a remarkable way to >> and it's complex like most love affairs. Love affairs are complex situations and uh it's a complex relationship and um >> we drop the ball sometimes, but we we have to know that he never does. So >> can I can I just pull on the analogy and I know you have another question. >> We're using the word a love affair with Hashem. So I would imagine any love affair there's that initial burst of energy, excitement, enthusiasm and then there's there's a waning of that and you know every relationship goes through those ups and downs. >> Um I would imagine that when you first started keeping Shabas and there were people cheering you on and sure people not cheering you on but within your new community people rooting for you and cheering you on. It felt amazing and you felt like you're doing the right thing. I would imagine that at some point that that questions and the doubt >> and a little bit of the pullback of that relationship made him more complicated. Yeah. Did that happen or was it just >> You know what I think? Um with me personally, it's hard to it's hard to say. I'd have to really think about it. Don't even think about it. Um I think that when you have that initial burst of love and passion um like when you when you meet someone who you fall in love with, it's the same same thing. you feel that passion and that does wayne it it can't sustain itself you know I think the cynical psychologist and psychiatrist amongst us would say that that sense of desire that we feel is just a means of making a connection um and then when the connection is made then we can sort of step back a little bit um you know the bent explains by by that we we sometimes feel like a deep deep thirst um for the things that we desire and When David says, "So too in the in the place of kadusha in the in the sanctuary, you know, when things when I've achieved that level of connection, Hashem, I still want to feel that level of tama, that level of thirst." Um, and that's something that, you know, does does Wayne and it's something you have to really really work on. And that's why maintaining that relationship. And you know, you know, date nights, just like you have date nights in a relationship, you have to have them in your relationship with Hashem as well. You have to have those out of the box experiences that make you feel >> like you're putting in the effort to connect. >> And it's about time. All relationships are nurtured by time, communication, vulnerability, date night, and all these same ingredients. So, here here you are and you're starting to taste the taste. You're falling in love with God. >> Falling in love with God to the extent that you're willing to put the career on the back burner, turn down gigs, turn down contracts, lose a record label. What happens next? >> So, I uh I I pack up my bags, you know, after losing my record deal, and I um >> you know, trying to figure out what to do with my life. I had like a fiveyear plan to go to Yeshiva. That was my goal was to make an album, make another album, then eventually end up in Yeshiva for for for a period. Now that that that period became came way further forward in the schedule for the next few years and you know I had like no money and you know like not a penny to my name really. I was actually in in debt to my band and there was again there was a a fairly miraculous story that um ended up getting a gig that cleared a lot of my debt to the people that I work with. um went to yeshiva but before I left for yeshiva I get an email from uh a young man who lives in Seattle Washington called Keith Rivers and Keith uh was making a commercial for Microsoft and he had originally you know synced up another piece of music for this commercial and from another artist and Microsoft didn't like it so they asked him to find a new piece of music so he went to Los Angeles to meet with music supervisors now music supervisors have a very interesting job their job is to find music and sync it to TV and you know movies that's their that's their job. Before he went in for a meeting with a music supervisor he went into the house of he was staying where he was staying >> and uh that individual happened to be playing one of my songs on the on the on the CD player. >> How did they have your CD that person? >> They were like one of one of like a hundred people in America who bought my album at the time. You know my album had you know desperately low sales figures but a few people in the US who loved English music and sort of get their finger on the pulse and bought my album. >> Wow. including this individual called Blake who >> so just the hashk the divine providence of it >> crazy I'm sure it was more but let's exaggerate a 100 albums are sold in all of America something like that >> and he bought one and he's playing it at the moment that this music executive comes in >> this advertising producer >> producer >> so he walks in and before he even went for a meeting with one of the you know uh music you know sync people he found found the song it was playing on the on the on the on the you know stereo in this man's house he asked to borrow for it, synced it up, flew back to flew back to Seattle, played the commercial to Microsoft. They loved it. And then, you know, he hadn't got permission to use it. So, he starts freaking out. >> Minor detail. >> Minor detail. Exactly. So, he starts emailing Island Records, which was my record label who just fired me. And they were ignoring all the emails coming in with my name or any of my associated works. And, you know, he really started panicking. And he went to my music publisher who found me. And I got this beautiful >> where were you at the time when he said >> in London just before I just before I left for yeshiva um and they they they you know this email with Microsoft too close came in and he asked me to use it and I said yes of course no problem and you know the rest is history so to speak. I didn't really expect much to happen. I'd had music used for TV shows and radio in the past and um even like commercials like little bits here and there of things I worked on and you get like a little residual trickle down from there but it's not nothing significant. >> Um and I didn't think much would come of it to be honest. >> So you basically say yes and just don't forget to pay me a little bit whatever comes from it. Not >> so they they actually offered me £75,000 at the time for it which is amazing >> to buy it outright. No, not to buy it outright, but to use it for the rights, which got me very excited because I realized I could stay in your Shiva for the rest of my life for that kind of money. I wish. And uh and then I found out that I owed my record label significantly more than that. So that I never saw a penny of that, but you know, that was a nice feeling to know that it was going to eventually had a chance of maybe recouping something. I go to yeshiva and when I'm in yeshiva that's when things start going really crazy that this commercial starts getting played all over the world and people are shazaming the song like crazy and u before too long the radio stations are wondering why is this song being Shazams when it's not being played on radio >> right >> so the radio stations all over the world start is an app that um if you hear a song and you want to know what it is you turn on this app your phone hears it >> and it um tells you what the song is and it was getting millions Shazams people who everyone who downloaded this app was basically what's the song? We never heard anything like it. Um it was the dawn of a a genre of music called dubstep. Now dubstep was a fusion of um has its roots in sort of you know dance hall and you know you know EDM style nightclubs. That's where it really comes from. And I I'd kind of fused those elements of dubstep with something which is more I guess commercially viable. I didn't think about that at the time. I just wanted to like make music that felt good and sounded good, >> right? And um you know initially that was um you know didn't work in my favor because it was just too ahead of the curve. No one was doing that sort of thing. Six months later you know everybody like Taylor Swift was was doing the same thing. But uh you know initially that that type of music wasn't accepted in the mainstream. By the time I was in yeshiva and that commercial was being played it suddenly became very very relevant. Um which was great great for me because suddenly all over the world radio stations TV stations are playing this commercial. radio stations are playing it uh on the radio and it's going up and up in the charts while I'm sitting in yeshiva you know stinging >> that's an amazing image you're sitting in yeshiva while your music is going >> crazy how does the notoriety change at that point how does that >> at the time I was blissfully unaware I didn't have a smartphone at the time and I you know the only internet I used was like one of the co internet cafes in like me so like I wasn't I didn't have much access to uh what was going on until I got a phone call from um you know from from Universal Music in Germany who told me I had to come to Germany me because I was going to be number one there uh the following day and I spoke to the rashiva and said you know I really this is uh this is crazy something's happening and >> sure he gets that chila every day >> every day he didn't know what number one was event >> what's rock and roll what's number one what's >> exactly what's going on >> universal >> and he knew that I had like not a penny to my name and he said you know will it mean prasa for you and I said yes it means for me okay yeah you should uh you should go then go do it and I went for three days and I was you know number one in Germany I got a phone call from the best to tell me I was number one in the AirPlay charts here um and number seven in the Billboard Hot 100. And there's a radio station in the UK that wouldn't play my music initially. They wouldn't touch it because it was just too wasn't current enough. It was too weird. Um and they had they phoned me up to tell me that I was now being on the on the A-list for for that radio station, Radio One in the UK. Um so suddenly everything just, you know, turned around. >> So you go to Germany, where else did you go as part of this tour? And Germany was >> that was that was that was just to do promo to do like radio radio shows and TV shows and interviews which is weird you're like studying in your sudden you're in Germany it's like the uh being kits of kits you know you're like two complete opposites yeah >> wow >> and so you're going climbing number one number one >> yeah and um >> was there a piece that said yeshiva was fun time to get back into this >> so I asked a shila there was a few things that happened that I I won't go into in too much depth but um I made some money for myself which is something you're not really supposed to do. But I said, you know, certain things happen, then I'll leave you Shiva because they seem totally improbable. You know, long story short, those things happened and um when I spoke it through with my, you know, Mashim and Rabonim and uh they were like, "Yeah, you should go take care of this while you can because there's only so much time that you can exploit this situation." So for a couple of years, I went on tour and I went back to yeshiva. >> So now you you reference your rabbanim. Is there one or two rabanim that you regularly go to who you give you the advice? >> Sure. Sure. There's a there's a there's a few there's a few. The first one is my rash. It's called Rimang Gabos. Um very special person in Shalim and uh then a few others. So Robin London called Rabbd Tugen who I'm very very close to Morgan on occasion and uh a few others for it. Yeah. At the time um I think Rabbi Tugen in London was probably my my go-to for for still is still is to be honest. So you you brought back the career for a little bit. Went on tour for a couple years. >> Yeah, I went on tour, made a couple of albums. >> What was the life like on tour now as a religious Jewish >> really hard I got married in that time also and my intent originally was my Sha Roina to not tour too much and if I did tour that my wife would come on tour with me and uh that didn't work out. Um she did not come on tour with me and it was a it was really really difficult touring as a from musician. It's not impossible. the touring at the time. I just want to clarify because you're on tour now, but you're on tour now as a from musician playing Jewish music. >> Exactly. >> That tour and that music was still your original music and a secular non-Jewish audience. >> Yes. Yeah. Exactly. So, um on a tour bus, you know, six nights a week, um shows six nights six nights a week. Um >> and I would imagine female fans didn't understand orthodox Judaism. >> Yeah. I mean, fans in general, not just females, but fans in general. And uh you know having that you know making those boundaries is is important. Yeah. Not impossible. The beauty of being a musician on that level is that you do have a level of distance anyway with stages etc. But when you have meet and greets that's when it gets uh awkward. There's one occasion that always makes me uh smile in San Francisco um where the tour manager explained to all the people coming to the meet and greets you know Alex is orthodox like don't shake his hand don't hug him. And in the middle of this uh you know meet and greet, this lady comes up to me, gives me a kiss on both cheeks, and starts hugging me and starts speaking to me in Greek. I'm like, "What?" She's like, "I'm Orthodox. I'm Greek Orthodox." >> Oh, that's funny. >> These moments I'm like, "Okay, >> that's hilarious." >> You know, so >> different type. Close. Close but not close. >> Exactly. Close for no cigar. Yeah. So, uh, you know, these moments happen. >> Two years of touring. And >> it's I think it's important to also say that, you know, um, you also have to be kind to yourself. And although there are there are there are boundaries you know it's always asking a ask worth asking a sha and to understand that in all aspects of life that there might be you know nilos or uridosis or whatever you want to call it person might let their guard down. I think the point is to know that um regardless of what you can't always be perfect in life you have to try your best but giving yourself the grace and the kindness to say that okay you know get back on the horse when you can it's important I think other musicians um have struggled struggled with that do struggle with that >> because once they make a mistake it compounds and you >> 100% the get in there and makes you feel like garbage and uh >> it's not just musicians it's everyone >> 100% yeah it's totally applicable and Um, you know, a mashpir of mine once said, you know, bluesfully said, you know, don't don't be scared to be a hypocrite. The aid to horror, you know, doesn't doesn't, you know, doesn't, you know, wants to make you feel like that's a terrible thing, but don't be scared. Like, if you mess up in life and you feel like trying to get back to the level you're at before is hypocrisy. Like, okay, no, but it's all right. Get back up. >> It's good advice. It's important advice. >> Yeah. Don't be scared to be a hypocrite, you know? It's okay. >> Wow. So, those two years you're uh you're touring. >> Yeah. Um, >> I I got married. I started a family in that time also. >> Which gave you a good foundation. >> Yeah. What was that like though in those two right here? You are now famous, number one in several countries, recognized song being played everywhere at all times. You probably were recognized often when you were out. Y >> people saw you. >> How do you navigate that wondering who really wants a relationship with Alex Claire and who wants to be connected to a famous person who's >> in it for the real reason? How do you, this again may be very personal, but I'll at least ask the question and put it out there. How do you date in that period of fame wondering whether that person loves your nishama and you or that person loves what it would mean to be married to Alex Cla? >> So I knew my wife before the success. I knew her family. I was very close to her family. Um spent time with them. I was like a Ben bias by her family. So that made that that question a lot easier. >> Um but it is a very important question and I never had you know great insecurity about it. Um, in my early in my late teens, early 20s, I knew some really famous people, much more known than I am, um, you know, on a on a national international, you know, for all the wrong and right reasons. People are really famous. And I realized very early on that, um, you know, sick of fancy is a real thing. And, you know, people wanting to be close to someone who has notoriety or fame makes them feel good, makes them feel successful. Um, but it's a very ugly and shallow shallow world to be in. Um, and for all of my flirtations with, you know, that world of celebrity, it always felt a bit like icky, you know, not a good place to be. >> You obviously have a special nishama that your antenna and radar felt the ickiness of it cuz most people >> I saw the ickiness. I saw the ickiness. It's, you know, really bunch of miserable dysfunctional people, you know, who just happen to be in a place of, you know, station. And u >> how are you able to see that when so many others aren't? Because so many others are enamored by >> because I saw I saw them the next day when they were hung over, >> you know, when they were struggling with the pain of of of everyday existence living on that level and when people have cameras thrust in their faces being chased by paparazzi down the road. I saw that I saw that firsthand with people and um from people I was very very close to and uh yeah made me realize that that's not a world I would want to be in. And I think the beauty of hanging out with from yidden was that you know no there was that level of anonymity and just you know blending in you know I wear I wear a stryal in jabas and uh in yurus it was the best camouflage you could ever have >> no one ever suspects the guy with a stryal you know >> it also blends in >> it does exactly exactly >> now as you're on this journey is there any piece of you that wants to prostitize that wants to take what you've discovered and share it with those people here you've hobnobbed with celebrities who are empty and hollow and you've been there the next day >> the literal or figurative hangover >> you don't want to say I can fill that that hole inside you I've discovered this thing called shabas this love affair with whether it's the yidden some very famous ones you were connected to or whether it's non-Jews but let let me share with you what I found >> yeah um I think the the the difficulty is is that when you've had that relationship in the past and they know you you know I had a drama um who had known me since I was 18 years old and had seen in my my ups and my downs, you know, had a very intimate like close relationship, very good good friends. And um I think when someone has seen that journey and that growth and they know you all your worst bits as well as your best bits, it's very hard for them to be a mubble from such a such a relationship. Um so I've never tried in that world of, you know, pop culture or my career, never tried to proletize or, you know, get people to drink the Kool-Aid. you know I always it's uh you know I think to work on myself and to keep keep my own level of inspiration and motivation is good and if I can have a hashbah on people around me um I found usually that in terms of teaching and learning and having you know hashbah um I find it tends to be more than the you know the the you know religious world >> do you consciously talk to your children now about some of the the struggles that you've had the external world the internal world >> oh they're my kids they see it all this of Of course. Like what can you hide from your kids? You know, they know you uh they'll tell you tell you who you really are. >> Do they fully appreciate your story and your trajectory? >> They're little. Not yet. Not yet. Maybe when they're older. My oldest is Bas Mitsler. My youngest is seven. So, uh they don't uh don't I think in the next few years my daughter will probably start realizing, >> oh, >> she Googles your name >> and reads the websites that tell your story. They see the the volume of the hits of the people who listen to your music. It's it's what's your relationship like with your music that you wrote from before you discovered this love affair with Hashem? Do you in your mind view it as that was like it's tra it's from a period of my life that >> I don't view it like that. I'm not um I'm not such an extremist. I don't see it as tra. I see it as very much a part of a journey. There are certain songs that I have on my first album I wouldn't I won't really sing anymore. Um but there isn't a demand to sing it anymore. You know I'm not playing at the moment since October the 7th I made a conscious decision to focus on Jewish music. So, at the minute there's no I'm not playing that music um anyway. Um I don't resent it. I don't feel like it's tra. I feel like it's uh you know it was a moment in my life >> story. Let's talk about October 7th. You >> Before you get I just want to go I don't want to let go of the music part yet. Um do you do you miss or still listen to non-Jewish music? Are there elements of nonJewish? >> Definitely definitely still listen to non-Jewish music. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. >> A big a big hustle of the Beatles, you know. >> Okay. Yeah. Yeah. >> As as amazing and as wonderful as Jewish music is, there are people who have tasted non-Jewish music, who have a music sense and a music soul. >> Yes, for sure. >> Who who want to diversify there? >> 100%. It's a It's a struggle. It's a struggle. And I um say this as kindly as I can, and I've said it before in podcast, but I'll say it again. It's um when you have a music industry that's focused on, you know, has people creating music from a place of genuine creativity and uh a means to express themselves artistically, emotionally, sincerely without having to worry about what is something appropriate or not. Always going to create something from a much rurer, more powerful emotional space. >> Um the world of Jewish music is very limited in as much as that, you know, what you can write about is a much is much narrower. Certain things you just can't talk about. And also if someone wants to make a career from Jewish music, they have to be aware that they're going to be making their money from, you know, simas, you know, Jewish concerts. And there's a certain expectation and demand um that is going to limit and stifle people's creativity. There are definitely exceptions to this. you know the the sort of the wealth of Israeli musicians who are coming out with incredible music you know the Ishari and the Kanis of the world and in America people like Zusha who are you know creating generally from a place of sincere creativity and connection without worrying about um you know the numbers um it creates something beautiful until recently that wasn't the case with Jewish music and the majority of it was created to you know very much stay within an echo chamber um which is very limited right the four of >> course you know there's a saying in Nashville that full cause and a lot of truth um is all you really need to write a song >> and that's okay. Simplicity I have no problem with simplicity um as long as the simplicity comes with sincerity. >> Does country music speak to you? >> I love country music. >> Does country music is that right? I mean >> 100% simplicity and sincerity, you know, that's uh that's everything. >> Whatever they're going through in life, they're writing about it. >> And that's what we want in Yiddish, right? Simplicity and sincerity. Like that's that's the the things to aim for. >> We want that, you know, to keep things simple and to be, you know, sincere. >> And what's it like for you, the experience of of writing? Are you still writing new songs >> at the moment? Because I've been so focused on uh getting through your day. Um I haven't for the last year and a half I haven't been writing too much music bits. >> Yeah. >> And um you know I've been finding a lot of connection through a nagunim. Obviously I released a version of the spoiler zig and kar um recently. Uh so that was you know something I found very powerful and very you know profound and connected in a very deep way. Um but in terms of my own writing I've been my brain has been very much channeled into the pages of the shar for for quite a long time now. >> What about turning you know um likes to reference I think it's Rafuk who endorsed him maybe and others before him. >> Um turning the Torah into a into a song like taking what you learn and writing it as a as a prayer but also attaching it and connecting it to songs. Does your soul do that with all of us? might be a little harder to do. >> It is a bit hard to voice. It's a bit difficult. It's a bit difficult with tur voice. There are other section of shenan you could definitely uh >> yeah, >> you know, and definitely have areas of >> especially think in song kind of a thing. >> I think I've always been very you know attracted to stories. That's how we inspire ourselves is with with a narrative. And I have used even on my first album I was using uh stories from Rabbi Aman and stories of Rebend Futafas the Kabad Mashir um was putting that into song even you know 15 15 years ago. >> So that's always been that's always been always been there. >> Does it get old? We're going to come back. I'm sorry. I just want to stick on music before we um are you sick and tired of playing Too Close? Have you played Too Close recently? >> I played it last night actually. Okay. >> Or two nights ago. I played it in um in in Fris in Frisco, Texas. I love it. you when you see people when you have a song like that um and it's something I you know I you know the shama I created in 2009 that's a long time ago um when I wrote that song >> did your kavana of the song changed it was originally written for one reason and by a certain person and now you're a new person >> so do you have a different mindfulness when you sing it today than you used to >> no I don't I don't have you know what the beauty of music is that you there's like a consciousness that we have when we when we create a piece of music um when I play music there's something that goes beyond consciousness you stop thinking it's the most amazing thing something just takes over >> how much of that is the audience's energy or do you feel it makes a difference audience it definitely makes a difference and when you have a song like that where you can see everyone singing along it definitely makes us that that aus is is it's very powerful it's very powerful you feel that level of connection >> do you still this is usually Moscow's question do you get nervous before you go on stage still today >> yes >> you do a little a little healthy nervousness butterflies >> for sure >> that's also good for people to hear and listen to is that somebody who reached the top and performed everywhere still has a little angst before. >> Sure. For sure. And it's funny because you know when you're when you're playing every night, you feel confident. You get into a a rhythm when you step away for a few months. When I step away for a few months playing live, that first gig back is always like nerve-wracking and I feel very very uh hard to commu communicate with the audience and to be fully fully present. >> What do you what do you do to prepare both vocally? Is there a special drink that you use? Get enough sleep. sleep is the most important thing and hydration that's the most important thing especially if you're flying um you know the demands of you know a schedule you're flying across the Atlantic you know once a month you have to have enough time to to sleep and stay hydrated that's the most important thing for a voice >> the only thing that really heals it makes it better to be honest >> is there a specific song not your own that you look to and you say that resonates with me that speaks to me that tells my story >> there a lot of songs that you know will uh elucidate different parts of my life and different stories that I relate to. That's the beauty of songwriting. You hear a song that is uh it's relevant to you. That's you feel like you're not alone out there. >> Yeah. I heard Mosh Weinberg give a beautiful Moshberger give that mash to him once. He said this beautiful idea that you know sometimes when we're dubbing we feel the same limitation that these words aren't necessarily very meaningful. and um he gave a beautiful marshall of a a boy and a girl who fall in love. They want to get married and have a beautiful life together. And then one night he's you know wants to tell her how he feels. So he picks up the phone and he calls her and says, "You know, I really I really I really like you. I really like you." And uh she's like, "Oh, great. Thanks. I uh I like you. I like you, too, bud. That's that's great." And he feels like such an idiot afterwards. you know, he turns on his radio and he suddenly hears like a you know, a song piece of music and um you know, like an Nilson song or something and suddenly he he realizes that that songwriter is saying everything that he wanted to say about his you know this young lady that he was in love with and he phones her up and says you know I I blew it when I tried to tell you what I had to say to you but this guy on this song this is exactly what I feel. So listen, turn on the radio right now to this station and this will explain what I feel. And I think that being present >> in like to filler or in performing a piece of music or hearing a piece of music when you hear that, >> you know how it relates to you, you know, that's so important. >> I do that with cards. I always get the card for like an anniversary that says everything. Some of them are blank and some of them say everything. I get the ones that say everything and then I just write a >> It's the thought that counts. October. >> All right, let's talk about October 7th. Obviously, you spoke about how after October 7th, you have pivoted a little bit in your approach to music and what you play. I would imagine also it's impacted you as a noticeable religious Jew in a world that's changed a lot in their views towards Israelis and Judaism. How's that impacted you? >> Massively. You know, I was in I was living in Israel at the time when when it happened and um you know, it was it was a difficult it is a difficult time. doesn't hasn't stopped being difficult the last two years. I think we've sort of gone from one situation to another of complexity and uh different challenges and struggles. Um I haven't had too much backlash from like the non-Jewish world on social media which is interesting because I don't have that much of a profile anymore and I think the people who do follow me are people who just want to listen to my music and I you know I don't really court publicity. I'm not someone who's out there pushing like an agenda or a message because it's not that's not my job to do. um I can share my story and I can share what I experienced on October 7th and you know since then uh with people honestly and you know not trying to um you know preach or virtual signal or or or do anything performative just just just live you know just live and uh share whatever's going on in my life and it's been it's been yeah it's been tough it was tough for all of us and uh continues to be a struggle am all over the world >> do you see in London Jews who hadn't been connected Ed since October 7th, their Jewish soul is a little bit more >> very much so. Very much so. Not just in London, I think all over the place, people are more more aware and more, you know, these tragedies. Unfortunately, the, you know, to draw a little bit of light from that darkness is to realize that it has woken people up and made them realize that, you know, regardless of assimilation and um, you know, or integration, whatever you want to call it, um, people suddenly feel very, very Jewish um because, you know, they're shouting at us, telling telling us we are. So yeah, why not? >> Now you mentioned you were in Israel for October 7th. Is there one particular moment, story that where you felt the sense of like Jewish unity? I know we here in Bokeh felt it in various different ways >> on October 7th, post October 7th trips to Israel. Is there one experience whether through music or through learning where you just said this is what it means to be part of the Jewish people? I think on October the 7th itself while Davvening Davvening Shakistora um in a in a bomb shelter with our little community. Um it was the most profound suka desimra of my life. you know, all those words suddenly became so relevant and knowing that we're all in there together and just having that sense of, you know, existential dread in many ways like, well, this is this is real. This is really happening and um not having any information about what's happening in the rest of, you know, the in the south. Um until, you know, through the day late, you know, news was like trickling in of what was happening and it was uh you know, both terrifying and inspiring. um the level of purpose you know a lot of the lone soldiers who were dubbing in Armenian that day was suddenly you know getting calls to go back to their bases and um it's a very intense day we decided to continue with hakoffus I think we're on where we were carrying on with our hakoffus and everything you have to do on simple and telling you know the gabi who was uh was not on mim at the time but he was telling me you know updating me what was happening he sort of told everyone who has to go should go everyone else doesn't need to know like tell the individuals who need to go back to their bases to to go, but everyone else is here. Don't people don't need the information. They don't need the anxiety. We know we can hear the air raid sirens. We're spending the day, you know, running to the Mad. Um, you know, we were aware of what was happening. Um, yeah, it was a very, very intense day and very intense few weeks afterwards, you know, when the, you know, taking trips down to um trips down to the south to drop off massive packages of toilet paper and socks, you know, to people who need it. >> Um, It was wild wild experience. >> First of all, thank you for your time. Excited excited to be together again. >> Yeah. So good to see you. >> When when you took on um a religious life Yeah. >> and you were attracted and drawn to Pineia Satra, the depth and the spirituality, the Torah, the Bashm, >> there are many who are attracted to it. I would I would include myself in it. Um who who work on it internally. >> Yeah. >> But who don't necessarily adopt all of the externals of that life lifestyle of that world. asked to get a rash of sha alter who I've developed a relationship with I was considering wearing a gart should I should I start putting on a gart and he said to me first wear a gart internally and when you can success successfully do that for a little while then then you can put it on outside I have the kavana that you're creating a division between yeah >> part before you die and then when you get that right you can put it on outside you've gone all the way >> all the way >> striml >> beard we were talking before about a good beard oil beard scrub what it what it takes to maintain what it takes to maintain a beard a good beard um let us into the thinking about not only taking it on internally but also and and wife, kids, they're all on board. Is this a family? >> Um family. That's a good question. I'll get to that. I'll get to that. It's Hashem. Um I was living in Shalim and it was, you know, actually easier to put on the uniform in many ways to uh to to not stand out to, you know, be part of a Tibbor, so to speak. Well, that was pretty normal. Um, and to have a certain level of like personal responsibility, you know, when you put it on, you're uh you're in you're in uniform. Um, again, the main thing is the internal internal work and the message. Um, that's a really good question. Why put on the external external? I think it was just the setting I was in. Just in the setting I was in. I was in that world. If I lived in Boca Raton, then maybe it wouldn't be. You know, you hear the sky and then when he moved to he put on remain of time to fill and started wearing a gartle >> because he didn't want to be separate from the community. He wanted to be part of the community. Um, and there's a lot of beauty and meaning in in in the kidic custom. It's very important to know the difference between the the bells and whistles and the panmas of why things are. And um, you know, I heard the tonerba once say that you know regardless of what school of thought you live in, you know, authentic orthodoxy, whether you're misnaged, yeshivish, Safari, whatever, whatever it is, um, you know, you have to know that to Hashem, regardless of what you're aligning with, if it's sincere and it's real, Hashem loves it the same. Hashem will love it the same. You know, the most litfish guy sitting in Lakewood, you know, who's not saying Shabas because it'll take away from you, you know, for that guy versus the guy who's, you know, singing and dancing and clapping and, you know, shrying while he ds. Um, as long as it's real, then it's beloved. The Reb says, you know, but if you're going to be a fake anything, be a fake Hid because you'll have fun. You'll have a great time. >> At least you'll have a great time. >> Have such a good time. You know, it's really it's Gishmack. >> It's really But it's important to know not to get stuck in that. Um, you know, to become a a parody of something. >> Don't Don't do that. >> What's next for Rabbi Alex Cla? >> We'll see. >> More music. London. Bo. >> Yeah. London. London for now. London for now. for for for a period. Um, we'll see. We'll see. Got work to do there. >> Yeah. >> And uh, you know, I I speak the language, you know, I speak English pretty pretty well. And um, >> yeah. Yeah. So, there's what to do in London. >> Thank you. Thank you for joining us, sharing your story yet again and opening up your heart and we're looking forward to continuing the conversation and the song in many circumstances. So, thank you so much. >> We'll see you soon. >> Thank you for listening to Behind the Bea. If you enjoyed the show, please subscribe, rate, and review on Apple Podcast, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. We'll see you next week for another peak behind the beam lab.