Are We Raising a FRAGILE Generation? | Rabbi Daniel Kalish | Behind the Bima #191

[music] >> Welcome back to Behind the Bima. Super excited to bring you our conversation with Rabbi Daniel Kalish, the Menahel of Waterbury Yeshiva, somebody who is just overflowing with love. It sort of represents uh a continuation of the conversation that we had with Rabbi Moshe Don Kestenbaum, who also was in Waterbury and brings that same approach, attitude, love, and validation, and and so on. We'll continue with Rabbi Kalish, and then maybe we'll have someone who represents another perspective that's coming up in the next few weeks. Uh we're looking forward to that, too. But for now, Rabbi Moscowitz, how are you? I am great, Rabbi Goldberg. Now, we had a beautiful job with Rabbi Kalish, as you alluded to. Fascinating conversations, but one of the highlights for me was something that I know is very near and dear to your heart. I don't know if we've ever spoken about it on the Behind Bima. >> I have no idea where you're going. >> is Shalosh Seudos. That Shalosh Seudos ended in a in a dance that was spontaneous, and it was I one of the most powerful It was very, very powerful experience. Um and I admire you because you've been on this Shalosh Seudos crusade now for maybe two, three years, and you've you had to pull people along, including myself. But I'm all in. I'm a Chossid now of Shalosh Seudos. Um and and I just want to thank you for that and and give you the opportunity to speak about why Shalosh Seudos means so much to you, and why other people should maybe consider re- Well, first of all, you might be the first person to ever put Shalosh Seudos and crusade in the same sentence. Um I love Shalosh Seudos. I live for Shalosh Seudos. I'm a Shalosh Seudos Jew. I think the world could be divided into two people, two parts. Shalosh Seudos Jews and everybody else. Um I didn't always eat. I wasn't makpid. I relied on a lot of the leniencies. You have a cookie, you make a brocha. On the Shabbos of Erev Pesach, you could rely on a Dvar Torah. You know, all kinds of leniencies that you can rely on. Um and I don't know what happened. I think when I started getting into learning Hasidus a little bit, Pnimius a little bit, which is also an interesting topic, some of those competing videos that have come out and where there's room for that and so on. Um, but I I leaned into it. And one of the things I found is that the people are living this very inspired dynamic Judaism, Shalosh Seudos is a very holy time of the week for them. And I went to some Hasidic courts of great rabbis. And they do Shalosh Seudos, and they do Shalosh Seudos right, they do it in the dark, lights out Shalosh Seudos. No inhibition, no one's watching it, who's singing. It's not about the food, it's about your neshama is alive. And we know on Shabbos we have a additional level in the shami seira, I'm more more attuned, broader, bigger, additional. I I don't know whether we get an extra neshama or we remove the things that distract the neshama, technology, to-do's, life, work. But the neshama's more awake, more alive. You have You're more present with people on Shabbos than any other time of the week. The meal that you're with people, there's no technology, they're not looking, zooming, nothing's buzzing, beeping. So, um, your neshama's alive and uh I could talk for hours, I'm not going to. But Shalosh Seudos is the Aseres Hadibros, the five and five, and it's a Rosh Hashanah and Yom Kippur tone, it's the holiest time of the week to be as the Netziv called it. It is the Ne'ilah of Shabbos, and people neglect it and let it go, but it's the time just before Hashem decided to create the world. Yom Rishon, the first day of the week when God created the world was on Saturday night, Motzei Shabbos. So, if it was al bamachshava, he decided to create just before he created, that time is Shalosh Seudos, bein hashmashos. So, that's when we create, that's when we decide, that's when we make a the big commitment and decision, that's when our ratzon, our will, our drive, our ambition this week, what are our goals, who are we going to be, what are we going to get done? And we do that around singing, and we've become a heimisha We've become a heimisha >> set up of the room, we sing Askinnu Seudasa, Bnei Heichala, three Mizmor L'Dovid, Y'did Nefesh, Ki Eshmerah Shabbos, some Hasidishe Torah that you've been giving together with me. And it's it the people who come, it's it's a fire, it's a fire way to start. >> the two reasons I love it and I wanted to speak about this today. Number one is I hear you speak a lot. You're never as fire as you are at Shalosh Seudos. I don't know if it's like the time of the day. You are unabashed and like on fire and just going at it, and I love it. I love seeing you in that natural setting. But the other thing that it reason that I bring it up, is Shalosh Seudos wasn't always like that at BRS, as you alluded to. Um it was kind of like the the ugly stepchild of Shabbos. Like all of Shabbos was beautiful, and then Shalosh Seudos was kind of like we're all exhausted. >> it as a room of people waiting for Maariv. >> Right, exactly. >> time until Havdalah. Right. >> And that was the most uninspiring place on earth. And part of what I admire about you is that you acknowledge that, leaned into it, and changed it. Like you weren't afraid to grow in that area and to push yourself in in push the rest of the community as a result of that also. I everything I did it's very selfish. Like I came back and I really wanted that Shalosh Seudos. So if you remember how we started it, we did a lot of thought, a lot of a lot of deliberation and collaboration, is that we decided instead of imposing it on everybody, we would leave Shalosh Seudos the way it is, and in a separate room we would announce whoever wants a I don't remember what name we came up for it. >> Lights out. It was lights out. >> it the lights out Shalosh Seudos, where we started it in the dark. And and we hoped this would happen, and it happened, which was that eventually more people joined that than stayed for the old one, and then you'd be obvious that you just switch rooms, and that you come bring it in. And that's what we did, and now it's a no-brainer. It used to be a convenient slot. You had visitors or guest speakers, someone who wasn't really taking a major scholar-in-residence slot, speak at Shalosh Seudos. But they were speaking to like two and a half people. They were speaking to an empty comatose room of people waiting for Havdalah. And now the people who want to be there they want to be there. Like forward to being there, and there's a vibrancy to being there. And it's great. And I'll tell you my favorite part is not only adults, we have some very young children there, and it's a they are they are singing singing their hearts out. It's the most adorable Can you imagine as when Ruvi grows up and at his table he's going to have a Shalosh Seudos, he's going to be singing Askinu Seudasa. He's going to say, "Yeah, when I grew up in my shul they had a fire shala shas. Everybody was singing and the room was shaking. That caught except people are pounding the table, singing. Not every week, not every other week, but sometimes like you said with Reb Akiva people spontaneously stand up, lock hands. We end it with the dance, with a little bit of a dance. And what a way to go. And so somebody other people are like limping out of they look like the end of a marathon coming out of I have no idea what that looks like. >> [laughter] >> But they're limping out of shala out of shabbos. Just like finally, thank god we can say zela and put on our motzei shabbos outfit and go to our motzei shabbos activities. And and I'm like the opposite. Like we're ending it on fire, we're ready to go. So, we're about to change the clock. Not this week and maybe not about about, but about meaning I can already feel it in the air. What do you like better? You like the winter clock, you like the summer clock? Which schedule You like changing the clock? Which direction? Yeah, I'm I'm a winter Jew. Yeah, yeah, I like those long Friday nights. Wow. Where you're not rushed, you can enjoy family time. We have events a lot on Friday night. own eggs, shalom zachars, and then you can do both. I love that. Um I'm going opposite direction. >> opposite direction? >> be in trouble for saying this, but I don't care. I can't wait till we change the [laughter] clock. I'll tell you why else. I'll tell you why else. And this is this might be unique to our shul. Cuz in the winter we have one Friday night minyan and then we get to the summer we get to like two or more. >> My friend, that used to be the case. I'm not sure you've been looking around. All winter shul be minyanim as its own minyan. We have a lot of other separate minyanim all over the circle and in shul. Friday night davening >> This was special. beautiful. It was a packed room. The energy was palpable and it really lifted me. Once we get to plug in zman >> when you have plug in zman and and then the minyanim are a little bit more shvach. And I I love that Friday night minyan which kind of like takes me into shabbos, energizes me. >> Agree. And I miss that during the summer. Maybe that's what takes away from >> I agree with you on that one, but I'm going other direction with the clock changes. I love a long Friday. I love that unless it's a shalom zachar Friday night. And and I say this, I don't want anyone to think because I I like to teach and preach about not being a martyr as a rabbi. Like if you don't embrace it and love it, don't do it. And I love it, and you love it. Um and I love going on Friday nights. I love that we have kabura and a tish and visiting speakers and constantly have things. I love it. But >> more than that. >> But no, but it can be tiring. It's old. And you know what? Each person who only goes to one of those is like that was great. But the person or people who have to go to all of them, it adds up. And in the summer, once you change the clock, there's nothing unless there's a shalom zachar, there's nothing. So you really you sit down in your home with your family, and you'll be there. Like me me my meals are like you have to got to get to the next course. You have to go. I'm going to have to go. I'm so sorry. Would the bench you please stay and have dessert? I'm going to go. >> cuz your wife made you this delicious meal. You have company there, and you're running out cuz >> So I love that. I love that nothing Friday night. I love that there's nothing much to shabbos because it's too late to do any events either. And then you have a whole shabbos. So you could have a lovely lunch. You could learn. You could take a long nap. You could still go to or give the sheer. And and it's like it's a long I also love the Friday flexibility. I love that sometimes drash is ready early. You're ready to go. You taking shabbos early. Get a long Friday night still. You're running late and you need a little bit more of Friday. You could have a long Friday and taking shabbos. So I I can't >> So so I think the difference between me and proximity that each of us lives to shul. Cuz for me the summer means as you're describing those long shabbos afternoons and the walking back and forth, I'm thinking to myself it is so hot here. When I walk and I come to shul and you're like giddy cuz you're popping into shul from your nap, I've just walked 15 minutes in blazing hot sun. >> Yeah. And so maybe that's tainting my perception. >> like the long days just in general. I know right now you're practically a professional golfer. So the ability when when mincha is going to be at 8:00, like you've got twice as long. You do. No, it is nice. And and during the winter when you don't have when you when you have a busy Friday and you look at the clock and it's 1:02 and you realize you have to write drasha in the next hour or two. There is that pressure and in the summer you have a lot more fun. >> Toss but that golf game Rabbi Moskowitz is not a professional golfer. He's working very hard and barely has any time to play. But of late, recently played and I was getting texts. >> played once, okay. >> I I'm just saying I got a text from someone else in the Moskowitz family who was playing with you. Well, I don't think he's I'm not sure he's ever texted me before. But he said like you got to see my dad, he's pounding it down the middle of the fairway. >> So Sunday was a very meaningful day. We have cousins who live locally. Um they lost a son a number of years ago and subsequent to that they've started a foundation to perpetuate his legacy and some of the the work that he did during his life. So they had a golf tournament on Sunday and and we were invited to play. And and of course it wasn't about the golf for me, it was about the meaning and the significance of the foundation and the work that they do and I was very uh honored to be asked to give a a blessing at the beginning and it was a I think it was a big kiddush Hashem. Um part of that though was golfing. And at one point you and I were dealing with something here in the shul and I guess I got up and I went to drive the ball and I drove it 280 yards straight down the fairway. Now for those people that don't ordinarily golf, that's a pretty good drive for a guy like me. >> Excellent. So my son, unbeknownst to me, texted you. >> When you drive the ball twice your weight, that's pretty [laughter] impressive. So my son, unbeknownst to me, texted you and what did he text you? He said is my dad working every these days cuz he's just hit the ball down. That's actually what he wrote. Something like that. Let's see what he wrote. He said no. He said He said I don't know what happened. >> no, that's what happened. When I saw him later, he did write me something like that. And when I saw him later I'm like tell me what how did your dad do? He goes, I don't know what happened. My dad was pretty heated on a phone call, hung up, put his ball on the tee and hit it 280 down the middle. 280 down the middle. But I will say So you know the secret sauce Rabbi Moskowitz's golf. You got to get you a little bit agitated. >> happens to be one of the beautiful things about golf and I'm I feel very lucky with this is it's one of the few areas that as your child gets older they want to do more with you. Like where else do I get two, three, four hours with my son >> Beautiful. without I mean you know you're really not touching technology, you're in the golf cart together, it's beautiful scenery, you're having conversations you can't otherwise have. So there are a lot of proof >> a lot more heartfelt prayer on the golf course often than other places. So people pray hard there. Unbelievable. How'd you do in the tournament? Um we came in third place. Third place. >> place actually and uh we had a good time. It was you know it was a it was a very special day, very meaningful day and and again always nice to spend >> are saying that it might be time to have you tested for steroids. Not sure. Not sure but that is impressive. >> That is impressive. So maybe when we change the clock and we have much longer we could write the drasha and then play golf Friday afternoon and still have a lot of time to get ready for shabbos. All right, listen. You tell me when. I first of all we issued a challenge to each other a few weeks ago about learning in the morning. Yeah. >> We learned together for a few mornings until your came back. >> sad. All of behind the bema was worth it that you said that on here and then my was challenging was traveling and I said you want to learn you said yes and tomorrow morning we're going to be doing it again. >> sad when he came back because I was really enjoying learning together and spending that time together. >> for you he travels quite often. [laughter] So we're back on again tomorrow. >> Okay. We are super excited to bring you Rabbi Kalish. We're off next week for Purim. Uh Purim is on Tuesday which is when our episode drops so we're going to take the week off. We actually have other things in our life than our incredible hobby of behind the bema. Uh we're so grateful to Rabbi Kalish who is a beautiful shabbos and this conversation always just brings an energy and and challenges us to think differently and this conversation was like that as well. So until we see you on the other side a freilichen Purim and a wonderful month of Adar and uh please enjoy Rabbi Kalish. Welcome back to Behind the Bema. We have the great privilege to once again welcome our dear friend, teacher, mentor Rabbi Kalish. Thank you for coming back to Boca. This is the third visit, the chazaka year and many many merit to share many, years of continuing to learn from you. Amen. It's an honor, really an honor to be. I thank the Rev for bringing me. Rev Philip, our friendship's appreciated, and the Rev's Thank you for bringing me, and it's an honor to be here. And for already speaking in half the institutions in town, it's uh far from a vacation, an escape maybe from the snow, a little better weather, but not uh not sitting by a pool sipping pina colada. So, thank you for bringing that that energy and that love, and that's really my first question is the positivity and the energy and the love, do you have to consciously think about in order to express and live it? Does it come naturally at this point? Were you born with it, or did you have to learn it? I I heard the show this morning, and it was amazing cuz the the focus and the emphasis on wanting to reinforce even among those who are sitting and steigering and learning the the continued bikur A person could have come at that with a totally negative perspective. Fire and brimstone musser. There's not enough bikur. Don't think just cuz you're learning, you're doing Yeah. But but you framed it with positivity and love and an invitation for more. So, do you sit down and have to think about that? Okay, I have a thought, I have a message, I have an idea. I want to make sure that I say it in a part Or at this point, that's just a prism and filter in which the way you think. That's That's an interesting question. My father My father genuinely liked people. I've been like studying his segulah for the last my whole life, but the last year you're more I'm more in touch with it. And he genuinely liked people, like really. He just enjoyed people were precious to him. I wonder if if that's a taught thing. Could I say I learned that from my father? Did I just inherit from my parents? I do like people. I think I think that's something that probably in a way could be taught cuz it's a truth that people are neat and important. But I baruch Hashem, I am blessed that I like people, and I think there's what to learn from everybody, but real things like to learn from everybody. And just I it's it's a blessing. Certainly, if anything, if any work on this, then I'd give that credit to my dad. And I asked myself that he work on that liking people. I did my grandparents like people. So, is that is that a gift from him? Maybe he did work on that. I do like people. So, I'm thankful. >> more than it's more than just liking people because that comes across in the hugs and in the love and the time. But, I mean, just, you know, also as people who give shiurim and drashas and speak, there there seems to be intention there. It's mindfulness and intention that the message is communicated with positivity, with aspiration. It's not knocking anybody down. It's lifting everybody up. So, at some point in your life, did you sit down and say, "This is who I want to be, how I want to be thought of. This is This is going to be my brand." I don't mean my brand in some financial way, but my When people think about me, Rabbi Keilush, my drashas, my shmoozin, my yeshiva, my being a rebbe, it's just all positivity. So, even this morning in thinking about, "Okay, I've got this insight in the parsha, Yisro, Moshe, I have an insight. I want to make sure I communicate it." Or no, it's just It's natural. >> a follow-up, could it be taught to someone who doesn't have that natural inclination? Someone who might be a little bit more of a different lens in the world, how could they develop that skill set to be able to be a little bit more of that positive and to view the world through that lens? Right. So, I I I I that question, we all have different ways for sure of seeing things. I think the truth is very positive. I think that's like the truth. I think the emic of our whole world is a place of hiddenness. It's called alum, which is a place of hiddenness. But, I think there's there's goodness here. And And And And I think we could work ourselves to develop that view. It's interesting. Younger, I I I I went to a big Yeshiva after being in my rebbe and in a smaller Yeshiva years, I went to a big Yeshiva and I was exposed to a lot and hearing different things and a lot of things that were more negative, not that there was a lot of positive negative, but I felt a lot of things that like put down and were mevatel did not resonate, did not draw my neshama closer. So, there's definite intention that if we can access the place the light and access and be moved by that, we're drawn to it more. So, I think often better than knocking and putting down and that type of bittel, I think what brings us closer, if we can access the or, that's that like draws draws us closer. So, I do think there's intention. I think I think I think presenting to ourself and to others the or that is the light and the goodness that's there is is much more of a draw. It's I'll tell you an interesting thing and something I've grappled with. It that I always in the Yeshiva I've been offered to bring the Yeshiva to to concentration camps and and there's there's a way of inspiration by way of patch, all the difficulty we've been through and there is a way by seeing the negative out there and in our own story of difficulty saying that's not it. So, then we have to find spaces that matter. So, there is a way of seeing tragedy and seeing the difficulties we got and somehow there is a way that can move us towards serving Hashem and I don't say not to bring Yeshivas to Poland and the likes. I actually think a lot about it and actually plan one day to go myself. It even though younger I said I wouldn't go, I want to face my family's past. People I'm named for were killed in Auschwitz. So, I want to I want to go there and face it and and and really stand there. So, I do plan on going there. I'm curious if if either of you have gone. Have either of you gone there? >> I've been, yeah. So, I want to I actually Well, that's a a discussion for itself. I want to go there and bring the Yeshiva there at some point. But my first thoughts and chinuch are not we've been so punished, let's be good yet. And my first thoughts are there's a beauty what we have. There's a beauty what we're involved in. I want from a space of the light to be drawn by that, not from the dark. Now, that's countercultural in many ways cuz social media, Twitter, and it's all built on it's like like holy cynicism, right? Like let me find the k'nack. Let me find that little funny thing that I'll post on there and everyone's going to say that's a great thing. >> Jewish social media right now. Yeah. >> media right now. A lot of sarcasm and a little bit of cynicism thrown in there. And it's very counter to what you're describing right now, which is like a much more healthy, positive approach. Do you talk about that with the boys in the Yeshiva about that yeah, you could get attention by having that sarcasm, but that's not the approach that we're selling here? Right. I don't I don't spend so much time saying what we're not doing because that would a little bit fall into that itself. So, I think the but 100% like I want the yes, the yes of the beauty of our people. I think it's true. I think we have good beautiful things. I like tapping into those beautiful spaces in each other, in ourselves. I think that's the most motivating. I think I think to really grab on to the or that is is very attractive and joyous. You know You know they trap little they catch little like flying things. They have these lights that zap them and they keep going to the light. And I the light must be so attractive. They get zapped, these bugs, and still go there. Light's very attractive. Now, when I I don't want to zap anybody, but the attraction of light is true. And I think I think we can give over truth. Remetesio Solomon once gathered, I was not there, but I heard from people who were there that he gathered men and women across America and expressed that we're putting things down too much. Let's Let's express what is, not to be Mevato. Give what is. Bring a truth to what is. I look at like a Yasis in Metrium. Again, I don't say his stuff, but it says shame shamayim was shoger befev. We're not taught about him like correcting things. And the whole Metrium went crazy for him. The MS and the truth and the urge was So, could we just be practical about that? Let's take cell phone use for example, internet use for example. So, there's there's an easy way to say cell phones are dangerous, the internet's dangerous, and to highlight the danger of it. If you were to speaking to people about it, how would you do that in a way to not necessarily knock cell phones, but to show the beauty of a life without that addiction to technology? I just want to use a practical example to tell you that. I tell you there was a schmooze on Shabbos. Can I tell you something funny, Reb Philip? I want to tell you something funny. You see my I just got my first smartphone in my life. I am not promoting smartphones. I Hashem till I was 50 had a flip phone. I got the first smartphone in my life. So, I sometimes I'm embarrassed I pull out I have a smartphone. I'm like looking around. It's still like I'm at a stage that I'm new to this. It's It happens to help me a lot. I want to tell you something funny and then address it looks like hey, I've stepped down. I had a smartphone. Like can I be honest? In my flip phone, if I wanted to get a Mets score, I was able to press buttons and see the score of the Mets game. I did have that. I only figured out at the end. But I was able like I was away somewhere, did the Mets do well, and I was able Do you know in this phone I can't get a Mets score? I've no I can't get one score in this phone. So in the hitznius it looks like I've done I've I've done like whoa. I have less What I want to express really want to express is this phone has been a lifesaver. I've always been bad at being in touch. I'm getting better. There's movement and I want to be better. I look at somebody like Ray Goldberg and I mean this and my father was like that. You're busy, we're the same busy and you're in touch with people and get back fast. My father was graded. I'm bad it's a bad thing. It's not nice. And it's the people I've hurt where they couldn't get in touch and it's not right and I just struggled balancing thing and I see I see a way I'm being a little better like significantly and I see a way that I'm going to be much better with this. So all of a sudden the smartphone I I can't believe how much you could do with this and I could be more in touch and I've been better. I see the calls right now that I'm missing and I didn't I've been better and been more able to be in touch with guys. So I think there's just a truth as in our Hashem made this all technology he's he's the creator of the Hadashas. He creates the new things. It's not just Now are there dangerous? For sure. Are there ways we have to be careful? But they're also beautiful usages really special communication is amazing. We know all three of us as people who are involved with klal know the phones are very holy is a very holy item. I use this to daven from and I'm not getting controversial. I use it once I like davening inside and it does have one of the few things that this phone can get is I have YidKit. That's an advertisement they're good people and I could get a siddur. Now it's not lost to me daven from a siddur from my phone. This phone's very holy. I speak to Yidden from this phone. That's what I use it for. I talk to Yidden and I do chesed. Our phones are very big. I think it's important people should know that. Your phone's very special. You can call your wife. You call your children. There's real are in the world. Now, it's anybody could something be used wrong? A thousand percent. Has Has phones caused and people connected to things they shouldn't connect? A thousand percent. And we have to have the awareness. And maybe even somebody shouldn't There's not a push to have it somebody has a simple phone, call it kavod, respect. Make sure not to have the Mets scores there too much into that. And then you might not have to hear such good news. >> [laughter] >> But um But so, you know, I think the stressing and the pushing what is yes is has to be first and foremost. There's a line, I think, from the Hadush Harim. He says, "Swear may Rabbi say to you, stop speaking so much about the wrath." Swear may Rabbi say to you, "Let's Focus on the good. But I So I'm not pushing back cuz I'm pushing back. You know, we did this recently with Rabbi Kestenbaum. It's playing devil's advocate a little bit to to pull out to pull out. Not because I disagree. It's We're Kayla should back again because we want that messaging. First of all, on the on the Poland trip, um it's not just about we got punched. It's not just about we got punished. It's not just about the negative. There's a very positive component that could also be relevant to the Yeshiva, which is about look how far we fell and look how high we've climbed. Like from the ashes, look where we've come back. So, no matter where you are in life, no matter what happened, how many people who never walked out of this place, but also who survived and walked out, who thought it was the end, like a Klausthal today. And so, there is a big a big big hisaurus of of like coming from a very low place to be able to climb out high. But on this So, Rabbi Moshe famously said that, you know, that the time is over for us to say, "Sure it's a sunny year." We have to say it's a kish mach to be a year. The pendulum had swung so far in the shadows of the Holocaust, survivor second generation, and a negative, and a miserable, and a difficult, and a challenging, and a many compromise, and a many sacrifices. Who would want that if all you do is hear complaining about about preparing for Pesach and the cost of being a Jew, so the next generation will choose to walk away and 100% for that time that was critical. It feels like the pendulum may have swung a little far in the other direction. Right? There's there's a I don't want to really reference it to get into it, but you know, every generation has their Baal Shem Tov Gra debate. There was Baal Shem Tov and Gra several years ago. Rav Weinberger and Rabbi Yisrael very publicly were having. So, this week, thanks to AI and videos, you probably don't know cuz it's not on that phone, but there've been videos that have been produced with like the Thank You Hashem movement and then like an anti put out about like basically on the Yom Hadin you just have to be learning Gemara Shulchan Aruch, enough with the singing and music and thank you Hashem. So, they put out another one back and now with AI and everything on demand and instant, you could have like the Baal Shem Tov Gra war has now come to the world of AI and and videos. But is there as the pendulum swung too far in the gishmak to be a Yid where now we're telling young people in particular it's gishmak to be a Yid. Everything's gishmak, everything's a farbrengen, everything's a tish, everything's a kumzitz, everything's ohr ein sof, everything is light, every No, sometimes it's sometimes it's it's -5° and 18 in of snow and you got to get to shacharis and you want to turn over. It's nice and cozy under the blanket and that's not gishmak. Yes, it's gishmak and that feeling and that connection and dveikus, that's not gishmak. It's not gishmak there. In Boker Tov on Sunday it's supposed to be 30°. That's not gishmak. For us, for us, we don't have heat, coats, Uggs, we're not ready. So, to get to shul for us, it's not gishmak. So, are we are we mistakenly insulating a generation from when it's not gishmak? You know, they say sometimes with allergies Israel has the least peanut allergies in the world because there's Bamba in everywhere. You have to be exposed sometimes so that you can build up immunity. And our young people are so fragile because they have no immunity cuz we're protecting them. We're rescuing them, we're swooping in, we're blocking for them, and we're also telling them everything has to be gishmak. And if it's cuz not gishmak, I'm not forcing you don't have to and don't do it. If everything is not stay in bed. If learning is not a smack do something else. If it's not because because it's to be and you should want to sing and dance and hop and pop and bounce and clap and if it's not don't do it. Do we worry the pendulum has swung? Sometimes the message has to be it's not always a smack. Your father didn't finish every year because it of course learning from him was I imagine there was a day or an hour and he wasn't done with that day's learning that in that moment it wasn't it was exhausted he traveled he took care of a child. It's not always a smack in marriage and parent changing a diaper waking up in the middle of the night. It's not always a smack. Yeah. Sorry that was a long one there. >> I like No I like that a lot. I want to I want to say first like on on the friction on the counters are huge like really big. It's good Reb Nachman celebrated Reb Nachman like that he had had I don't want to say adversaries is probably strong yet people against him the Zayden big Sadikim who held different than him. And he was thankful for it and he said that I see the people against me are Sadikim gives me joy. Gives me joy he said and he you have to analyze what he meant. He said that the fact he put based on a possible and tell him the fact that the people against me are Sadikim is a headset from Hashem. So we have to it's good when I hear big Sadikim who say different than the Yeshiva than than what what what what what what I'm just trying to do in my own Veda. I've gotten more comfortable we're all human and there are times that can make you uncomfortable but I also have a big space that it's good there are different lights. I want to express when we we could analyze the big picture and we we're what we're observing things. I don't consider myself big enough or try to like analyze that we go to all I could do is like from my space like bring what I what feels right for me to bring. If there's somebody else countering with with more harsh in some way, because of all I It's not a space I'm like analyzing our people and like getting the right like in shine your light. If this is That's what you asked you were asking originally. You were asking about is it natural? Is this worth I do want to say I asked a person a rebbe of mine that I trust a lot that has become a rebbe of mine recently. And I asked certain things that I'm moving towards. Maybe that's not what to teach. Maybe teach the guys the way I thought 10 years ago and 20. Who's And the person was machzik a person who I believe has das Torah that if this is where Hashem moved you, you're only moved here for guys for your children. You're at a dangerous place when you're a void is leading you one place and you're teaching something else. Many tzaddikim Many tzaddikim and it's many who who taught what we call chassidus and were rooted at younger ages in the world the literature Well, then I don't They're They're all It's me and you and it's It's a world of service of Hashem. How did they know to teach when he was 50? He was a talmid of of the chofetz chaim, but when he was younger, he was so The answers you you What you're giving is for the people we're around and we were at. Maybe we only have that madregah or that thought or that knowledge of ruchnius because of the people we're influencing and we're involved with. So, I think we have to less cheshbon of like we can analyze our dirt and is is the pendulum moving? I don't know the answer. It's a good question. I can only give over what moves me and what what I for your children you tell me them sorry to interrupt. You but but do you worry that we're pampering them, we're protecting them, we're insulating them, and we and and we're making they don't have immunity. They don't have emotional and spiritual immunity that even when it's not kishkes mark and even when it doesn't feel good and even when it comes at mysterious nefesh and even but it like what will happen we're only where we at cuz the people became before us were willing to be most of nefesh. Do we worry that they won't be most of nefesh they'll be like, I didn't sign up for that. It's supposed to be kishkes mark. I don't want to be it's I don't want to be most of nefesh. It's a very fair question in any place where there's positivity and warmth and like we're showing that what happens like expose the places I don't want to visit. Don't we I'm not asking about the to be clear I'm not even asking about the Yeshiva. Just asking about all of us. Can I just share what Rav Lef was here a number of years ago he spoke about this exact issue. And he said we do a dis I'm just quoting him. He said we do a disservice by telling our children that Judaism is fun. He says fun is going to the beach. Fun is going to Disney. Fun is not getting up in 30 degree weather and going to minyan. He says we have to stop talking about it being fun and start talking about it being worth it. And to me like that kishkes was very important. It's not always fun but it's going to be worth it. And so kishkes mark can be defined in different ways. Kishkes mark could be fun or something even when it's hard can be kishkes mark because I know that it's worth it at the end. And I think that's perhaps like a healthy way of identifying the issue. I I look at our door if if if we want to like analyze the door and again I don't feel I'm in that space. I'm just go on my own search and trying to bring what what what I can bring what what works for me as best as I can and what works the people around me but it looks to me like a very pnimiyusdik a door that is not as capable of just doing just do it. I don't get it. That wants to relate to this. I want to connect to it and to find that space this can mean something to you. What you that resonates for said from Rav Lef that it can mean something to you. Now, will you always be in that space that it means something? I was just in Arizona Israel and it about 2:00 3:00 in the morning, a youngster who's clearly in a lot of pain pulls me aside, "I need to speak to you." He said he said I've been watching you for a few years. I need to speak to you. He said, "You're a fake, right? I know you're fake." That's what he said. So, I was very I want to say for a while, "Okay, that's a very good question." And really the generations grappling, we all want to be authentic and real with that grappling we're all in the shammas, real. We're really about it. We have a body and really in the shammas, real. And then to be in that space that I'm connected to what my neshama is and that's a sogya, are you real? I'm trying to be. There are moments I'm real. Then I want to be tapped into the to neshama. And other times I won't feel it. And that's good, too. And do it and coming from a majestic generations of action, fiery activists there's a dor that wants to connect and is craving like I I want this to mean something to me. And we'll look at it, just do it. That like just do it. Like so fresh. Well, you're Nekudas has to mean something. It's like The dor today is very pnimius which and and wants to feel and connect to it. And I want to I want to try to find those spaces we can relate and connect. Do I worry under do I rest what will happen the Yid is fire. The Yid's going to be a Yid. We we've stayed Yid throughout. I think we're being pushed by a generation to find the space of connection to this thing and there's an avodah like that of finding that pnimiusdik connection to things that it means something. So, certainly we have to follow the Shulchan Aruch, but it has to be fire. Is it l'chatchila b'dieved? Is it Is it that this is a fragile generation? It's you read this in the dairies. The whole world around us, to the technology, comfort, convenience, prosperity, it's very fragile. So now we have to pamper and indulge. >> I look at it like the hot tea. Well, no, no, it's the hot tea and and really halavai our great zaydes also. Someone has spoken to them. >> each generation. >> That's that's That's I look at I don't look at it halavai. We're on the shoulders, literally. It's not a bone. I don't want like achsher darach generation we're better. People are more lave. We have tzaddik said that even though you read the sadder the laves going to get bigger. Rav Tzaddik writes it openly. The lave gets bigger. The psukim describe that I'm going to change a lave even to a lave basar Mashiach times. We're saying people feel much more anxiety. Can Can I Can I be honest? One of my children went through something hard and for a week was struggling to function. Do you know I had a pride and I would say Get up. Just do No, I had a pride. He feels. He feels and he's changed my life. He's a rebbe of mine. He really feels things and it's not just easy. Get up. Come on. Come on. Why can't they I had a conversation. >> it didn't last a week? What if it were chas v'shalom or something? But what if it were 6 months later he still didn't get up? And now you're saying he's a failure to launch. We can't get going. >> of me that would I don't wish everybody should be have the koach. There's a part of me that's impressed. I I had a conversation with my sister. We grew up together and best friends. We had a conversation observing our children just now and that's an incredible conversation. She's And she's like I don't get it. She's like the next thing. Like I don't get it. And And And there's something so beautiful about a generation that feels and there's a presentness and a connection that's like amazing. L'chatchila l'chatchila. There's a connection. That son, we look at each other in the eyes. We're close. We like nod. Okay, I have a practical question for you. Yeah. Practical maybe I shouldn't be asking on on to the whole public, but I'm going to ask to the whole public cuz it's complicated and I want to learn from you of how you navigate this. You [snorts] know, Baruch Hashem, I'm sure because your message so resonates with so many people. And there are people who never went to Waterbury and have no direct connection to you, but they listen, they watch through the gift of technology, the bracha that like you said that phone is a it's a it's a clay kodesh. It's a clay kodesh. It can be used for holiness. So, they connect to Rabbi Keilson, Rabbi Keilson, Rabbi Keilson. Now, they find you that year at 3:00 in the morning in Eretz Yisrael who was a who who's a a broken heart who found you. They were looking for somebody. How do you manage that now going forward cuz that person now had an hour with you, half an hour, 10 minutes with you, 2 hours with knowing you, 2 hours with you. And now they say, "I I found my my medicine. I I found my my therapy. I found my hope. So, I'm going to try to speak to Rabbi Keilson once a week because he he can keep me going. He's who I need." And everywhere you go, which was all these shoes all over Israel and here you're in Boca and you travel, you'll meet the holy souls and the holy sparks. Some of them broken and some of them very whole who say, "But Rabbi Keilson" and and you can't because the primary job is to the Yeshiva and to the talmidim. And I in a very less way or a much smaller way, you know, it's hard but Baruch Hashem, my primary responsibility, my family, of course, and then the shul, my primary responsibility. But you meet people, they listen online, they find, they hear, they text locally, you know, this this area is the capital for recovery in the United States. Baruch Hashem, it's very holy. I one of the one of the most amazing things that maybe we can talk about it. But last year it was it was unbelievable. We went to a recovery meeting together. And who were there were each sharing, which is the way they ran it like a classic recovery meeting. And then I got to you. I'm watching. I'm thinking, "Oh boy, what happens?" And then Rabbi Keilson introduced himself. Your first name? I'm so-and-so Keilson. And you shared. And then it got to me. So, I said, "I have to share." It was it was it was the most raw, real, authentic, all the masks are off. It was unbelievably powerful. So, we have that in the area and there are people they want to meet Rabbi Moscow. It's me locally the shul, they connect. But it's hard to manage expectations because if we're there for everyone else, we're not there for ourselves at all, or our family, or our shul, or talmidim. When you first meet you say to somebody, "It's so wonderful to meet you and I want to spend time with you now." You need to know going forward it's going to be hard to get in touch with me. I'm not going to be able to in an ongoing way, in special circumstances, let's check in once a year. In a very practical sense, how do you love a klal Yisrael? How do you feel like a shepherd of klal Yisrael? How do you care about every Yid, not only those who pay tuition or membership, but those who need you in that moment, but also not spread yourself so thin that you're not helping anyone. I first I I first I should ask Rabbi Moscowitz and Rabbi Goldberg this question and express that I'm I'm in I'm amazed you do a lot and this place is bursting like the new construction and yet you're in touch. I've seen it. I've seen with You're much better at getting back to me than I am to you and I want to work I have a friend Ovie Kilsen, Rabbi Kilsen who does tons and he's in touch with people. So, I want to say that it's a sensitive topic and one I want to get better and and can think of ideas and really can on the mic or off the mic ask both of you and and and work on and strive. I want to say something from rebonim. If I could say a mashal, I'm curious if you've heard this, a story from rebonim that I think is is very important to me and helps not certainly what doesn't help in this sugia is feeling pressure to back down. No, no, no, no, no. Stay in my lane, be present. I'm talking out of Rabbi Moscowitz. Let's Let's have a good time. Let's Let's enjoy each other. I want to share a story from rebonim that that that's meaningful to me in this sugia. And meaningful on the topic of a person's a rebbe, a parent, a mechanech. It's It's a It's an important rebonim. Rebonim gave a mashal. I'm going to say it the way I hear it cuz that's how our rabbonim wanted people to learn. So, I'm going to say it the way these ears hear the mashal. There's a person in prison. That's a dark, dark prison. You can't see anything. And he's in this pit in the ground, this hole in the ground. And two wise people are thrown in jail. He's there for the long term. This guy's never He's a life sentence. The two wise people, two chachamim, are there each for a couple of weeks. They did a minor infraction and they're in the jail, the dark jail with the person who's a little less wise than them. And they're sitting in this pit, in this hole in the ground. And one chacham, they the in the pit in the ground, you can't see anything. And they threw Caleb into the pit with food. And the tipish can't see what's a spoon, a fork, a cup, a plate. What's food? He can't tell anything. And he's throwing food. He's using his the food as a plate, the plate as his food. He's eating the plate. He's using the cup as a plate. Things are He just looks like a mess and no food's going in his mouth. One chacham, and they always give him different utensils and different food. And one chacham showing him food by food how to eat different things, how to peel. He's biting foods whole. One chacham daily is showing him and like a lot of instructions all day they had to eat. And that's one chacham is doing. And the other guy's doing nothing. Other chacham, zero. So, one chacham, the chacham was doing so much one day just had it. After four days, he says, "I work my whole day. I'm teaching this guy everything and you're doing nothing. What's What's you? You also know Help me teach him. Do So, the other chacham says back. He says, "Reb Yid, both of us are getting out of here 2 weeks. They have enough utensils for 50 years. They're going to send him down different things. When you leave, this guy's in the same trouble as when you came. He's going to starve to death. He's going to You haven't helped him one iota. I shouldn't say one iota for 2 weeks, but you haven't solved the problem. So, the other says back, "So, what are you doing?" "We haven't done anything. So, at least I gave him a good tooth." He said, "I'll tell you the truth that I'm thinking I've been analyzing this room and I want to find a way and I'm analyzing how I can make bore a hole here and make some light come in the room. Cuz if there's light in the room, the rest of the time this guy is here, he's going to be able to see. And then he'll manage his own things. And Rabbonim said that the the job of a rebbe is to make light in the room. And I'm very moved by Rabbonim's expression because then the answers aren't coming from the rebbe at all. He's saying that that person in the prison, when there's light, can actually see and then find his own ability to use the food to eat the food. And Rabbonim saw the job of somebody who's a mechanik for the children, for his own children, for others' children, he saw make a light in the room. And when it's light and people could see, they'll find their way. And I think in many ways if if we're the answer, then we're like that chacham who then has those questions. You're here for 2 weeks. Exactly. Rabbonim was expressing in that mashal exactly this. Are you really going to be there? If we can shine our light in the way that our neshama could bring a light, then there'll be more somehow somehow and I that we can make a hole and there's a way to see and something to see, people can find themselves. If I could tell you a another story, another story that somebody came to Yeshiva by us and said, "Get cynical with me. Like come on, you've been to four places and now they give the right hug. Gets be cynical. Like come on, you didn't you eat drink the Kool-Aid. Come on. And the kid said that if we're taught to trust and believe anybody, we would be like you, but we learn we find ourselves. And I can't be cynical about myself. That's what a kid a very intelligent person Mo Muller a very smart person shared. And I wanted express that that the answers aren't in another. The answers so certainly if we we try to give time all of us try to share. We like our people, but if we can bore a hole That's a powerful That's a very powerful imagery. I want you to feel better. People may feel that when I ask her to call and I get back to them, I don't know if they feel we love them. People feel that when I ask her to call and I get back to me one out of 10 times, but he loves me. He loves me. I I'm not endorsing your way or our way. It's a challenge. We've got to find a way. We've got to find a way to both make sure we get back to everybody, but also with each person we're with they know we love them. We care about them. I'm not telling you what you have to do. That's what we have to do. That's what we have to do. But it is but I want you to feel better that we may get back the people that you look at and say they get back to everyone, they may get back to everyone, but the people feel they just wanted to get back to me. Versus anyone who spends time with you knows that when I ask her to call loves me. He loves me. In that little time, that hug, that the love that comes across. Thank you. That's I We all need that. I appreciate I really appreciate work on I shouldn't say I I >> [clears throat] >> I'm not talking to any people I'm surrounded by I need to work on on making sure people know that it's not just I'm busy and got back, but but I also love. I don't want Yeah. In this area like all it's my own my own things shying away from certain things and and my own battle and work, but the being present for others is a real sugia. I don't want to downplay or make like a sheet of that at all at all at all. It's wrong. People you're close to to be in touch and I've seen people like both of you that are busy and that moves me. People that are crazy busy have a doing a lot and yet they find and they're they're I don't want to say tricks cuz things aren't tricks. They're organization It's a lot of things too. It's not being afraid. It's a [snorts] lot of internal things. Does Reb Akiva ever have a a bad day? Is there ever a day that that um you're not positive enough to be in smiley and also I don't want to spend 2 hours talking to tell me them and loving them. I need some alone time. I need me time. I'm in a bad mood, a sad mood. I'm not Mr. Positive, Mr. Gish Mach to be a Yid. Like there's something that Yeah. [snorts] Yeah. I would I want to say that that everybody has that and you know, of course I'm part of that. What what a kid dish is the younger me would fight that and didn't want that. Now I like that. I like that day. So the younger like my from kite was I'm positive. I like try to be positive but I like the day I'm not feeling positive. >> You mean you mean you lean into it. You lean. Yeah. Yeah, I get places. That day also has something to tell me and teach me. I'll meet a guy that I'm not that doesn't a bucker went on a walk with me recently of recent years, very recent and he said I came to what I was hoping you'd like me and you don't you don't like me. And I thought about it, came back to him and told him he was right. Mhm. And I explained that what's in me, we all have like our kryptonite and I explained like what's in me. We're very close today, very and I like him. I was able to like find >> he know? How did he sense it? People know. People know. People like kids are people like are sensitive. >> also he he believes and knew you love him but you don't like him. You take a bullet for him and you love him but he could sense you don't like him. I actually love that he told you that also. Isn't that neat? I I think that so many relationships aren't created because people are afraid to be honest with each other. And the fact that he was honest with you created that breakthrough that now now we can have an honest conversation. Why is it in >> Yeah. Yeah, that's amazing. >> I like that also and I find this in our dark people are people are straightforward. They want to express. I what you said also that you see love and like is is a good sugia. Is a true sugia. But this this nicuda that we're I'm not afraid our inner space is allowed to be complex. It's beautiful also. And like there's a there's a purpose for the time we don't feel it. It's fine. I don't want to like I'm making negative positive. Like how >> [laughter] >> Are you are you willing to share able to share what was it that you didn't like in him? You loved him, but what do you didn't like in him that was the kryptonite? And and do you are you very close now because he heard and he changed? Or now that's sort of just on the table now, so now we could be close cuz there's no longer that It's funny you say that. I'll tell you a funny story, but I'll tell you a funny story that I There's a person that I've met a few times who I found to be very heavy. A certain heaviness. And it's like a little overwhelmingness. So heavy. Like chill. Like don't take yourself so seriously. Like enjoy. Right. And I was working on just being calmer and I remet them and they were much calmer. It turns out like how about it's right if he looks ugly. >> Yeah. >> [laughter] >> I call a pace of them with my pace. >> Right. And it turned the person was so nice and light. So there I I I don't want to say the thing. I don't want to I could say the thing. I'm not afraid to say it. I don't want to expressing like this. I don't want to bother to feel that he can't be a certain thing. I don't want to I don't want a person to feel they have to not be some of that. But the second part, when when he heard it, did he change it? Or it's that now that it's out the table and now that it's spoken, now we're very close. >> It helped yeah. Now that it's spoken, it helped me also. >> you're holding it in. It's like we we now are connected And it when I'm able to face that those spaces that you it's hitting here, it's funny you don't have to almost work on it if you face the space then you you could come you face spaces inside it's not about changing fixing like we accept we can like come forward with that. Yeah. Yeah. I know we have to wind down but you you made a comment this morning that caught my attention. I just want to ask you about it. You said that you love my dad because it was the only that you learned from start to finish with your father. I'm wondering if you could describe that experience a little bit to us cuz it made such an impression on me and I found it such a moving image of that experience of why that's so meaningful to you. Yeah. Yeah. I could say in the year and a half my father meant a lot to me to me my siblings my children a lot. I miss him a lot. In a certain way I'm the most close to my life to my dad in a certain way. I would give up this way to have him in the to have him here but in a certain way I'm the closest to him ever. It's interesting I like the world of Hasidus whenever I learn something my father's voice lives me what's the simple shot what's shot what's shot and I'll fight what's shot in the what would my father say but in many other areas I'm I'm closer to him than ever and he's he's with me a lot. And and as such like the I was to learn with him has become like I spent time learning it again recently just to try to relearn it and to be present to it. And yeah. It's interesting when when people we love are departed in a certain way there's a reality we can connect while when somebody departs we understand that's a neshama that was a soul here. When they were here the the the the nudgy things distract us. As the further from that departure it was it was a soul that was here. You really see it. You really understand that it was a soul that was here. Like a big soul. Whoa. We get so I try to bring that to the living. We're three neshamos chilling, three getting a smack neshamos. Chilling out. Of course, it's it's normal our funny differences and nuances and the frustrating things in distract us from that and that's normal. That's part of living, part of being alive. But but as what does happen after and there's a certain ration that leaves that I we would just surround the neshama that was >> Was that a yeshiva that you learned the daram with him? Was it uh What stage of life was it? I was in high school and I was there to get with my friends to learn mesectus nedaram with my father. At the time it was nice, but now I appreciate that. It's just different. I learned the mesecta with my father and we and yeah, he had a tremendous avisa torah that ran in the daram as a special unique treat. And the fact that I learned all mesecta just means a lot to me that I Hashem gave me that It's a funny thing you look back. I was in my father's sheer that year. That's like such you be in your father's sheer not and all those funny things. To me that I learned the mesecta to have my father matters a lot to me. The mesecta takes on extra preciousness. All different anything in that mesecta and it's a mesecta I just care more and more about, but yeah, that is something precious to me. I try to quote nedaram much more these days from that mesecta. But this point of the departed meet becoming much more important, recognizing how much we have is from our parents. You started the conversation on appreciating people. My father liked people, genuine. People meant something. He respected was a mechaber of people. Somebody really respected people. I think that came from his parents who are respect a real respected people and that's something for sure I have from my father. He didn't didn't demean anybody, didn't speak bad about people. So I think I thank you. We thank you for this opportunity. I feel like we have an ongoing conversation and it just gets interrupted by 11 and 1/2 months. You know, we we don't see that frequently, but when we do it's just continuing the same conversation and the energy and the love and the inspiration. Every time you visit, I know that we and and others are just inspired to smile more and be more positive and love more and see more light and do more. So thank you. Thank you for being back in Boca. I really appreciate being here. I appreciate and I appreciate all the different lights real. My father would say about the Yeshiva, I don't understand it. My dad would say but I love it. And he came for about a week a year he would join us in the camp we have. He would say, "I don't understand it but I love it." But there was some humility and and if we could tap into the discipline that he had and what he was bringing we could tap into that. And the way we could tap in is is finding our light, sharing with the lights. So the fact even even the counter and different styles is precious and important. We're human. It doesn't always feel good somebody disagrees, somebody spoke against. We're human. Right. But the knowledge like to have the different lights, bring our light, bring our light hard and true. Don't try to create balance. Don't worry. Our people will be great. In a funny way we never feel like if we wouldn't do this, if I wouldn't do what he's doing in Boca. If you wouldn't do what you're doing in Boca, what would be? In a funny way it we'd rather say nothing would happen without us. I don't think that's the energy of doing I don't think will be okay. is the that gave us a light that we can bring and shine in our way and and let's shine it. Let's let And in our light the will bore a hole in this element of world of hiddenness and we'll reveal an aspect of a sham of godliness and in in that light others will find their light and they'll shine and we'll have the tremendous shine of our whole people shining. Thank you for breaking through a little hole for our community to get in a little more light. So, thank you for being here. Thank you so much for having me. Thanks a ton. Thank you for listening to Behind the Bima. If you enjoyed the show, please [music] subscribe, rate, and review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcast. We'll see you next week for another peek behind the Bima.