#79: Behind the Bima - Myron Sugerman

From Boca Raton, Florida, Rabbis Ephraim Goldberg, Philip Moskowitz, and Josh Brody are taking you behind the Bima. The BRS Rabbis schmooze about contemporary issues and talk to special guests who give a behind-the-scenes look at how they got to where they are and what keeps them going. Welcome to Behind the Bima. Okay, everybody. Welcome to Behind the Bima. Guess we're live. I'm not really sure where Rabbi Goldberg just went, but I'm sure it's an emergency. You don't realize what it's like to be a Rabbi. I apologize. Little I just said you had an emergency. You know, the life of the Rabbi, so. There you go. It is Wed- It is Wednesday night at 9:00 p.m. and we are here to take you behind the Bima. We are here to take you behind the Bima. Thank you, back. I am here with Rabbi Josh Brody. We have a fantastic guest tonight. The great Myron Sugarman, Pop Sugarman, the one and only Mr. Sugarman. Amazing life story, story to tell. We're looking forward to having that conversation and bringing it to you, but I want to first mention our sponsor tonight's program. Tonight's episode of Behind the Bima is dedicated for a complete, speedy, and painless refuah shleimah, a full recovery to children in our community who we are all praying for and rooting for and pulling for. Esther Tehillah bas Ariella Tziporah, Carmela Shaya ben Reiza. And we uh please God look forward to hearing good news about both for a speedy recovery. And towards that end, we will mention uh we ask everyone to turn their heartfelt prayers. Our dear colleague and friend Rabbi Moskowitz is uh right now focused on his beautiful, beloved daughter Esti who uh had a major surgery. She's recovering well, but needs our prayers and continues to recover. So, please have her in mind. We are for every single class we give and every learning opportunity. Esther Tehillah bas Ariella Tziporah. And uh we love Rabbi Moskowitz and of course he's uh taking the space that he needs. We ask all of you to please pray and do good things and have her in mind. And please God, hopefully he'll be back quickly. She'll be back full speed, full strength uh soon and quickly and uh we pray for that. So, Rabbi Brody, Yeshiva week. We took off last week for Yeshiva week. That's right. Wasn't as much of a break as I thought it would end up being, but How was your Yeshiva week? Yeah, it was it was nice. It's just first of all, it's nice to to spend some quality time with the family, but again, it's it was Originally, we were supposed to be in Israel, so a week vacation turned into like a day vacation. But uh even that wasn't so much of a vacation. I'm looking forward to the summer. That's That's the next vacation, but But it was good. It's good uh It's good that the kids are off and they get to enjoy. And now get to be back at school with no masks. That's also a big deal. Everyone's excited about that. New policy at some of the schools. Yeah. I think all all the schools, right? I think all the local Jewish day schools are Uh I think all the local Orthodox Jewish day schools. Right. Donna Klein, I'm not sure yet. We're actually having a meeting tomorrow. Find out. Yeah. But definitely Interesting development, promising development. Hopefully we're coming out of Omicron and turning a corner. And of course, we remain vigilant and careful. And uh of course, we understand the dangers and uh hopefully it represents turning a corner to a new time. And you? Okay. A little uh Yeshiva break? Got away for a couple days. I will not say the location because it was phenomenal. We drove. It was Florida-based, but not a lot of Yeshiva weekers. So, we are not disclosing it because we'd like to keep it that way. Let Let everyone continue to send upon Orlando and elsewhere. We're keeping this place to ourselves. It was not heavily populated by Yeshiva week vacationers. Um It's a place that has a couple of kosher restaurants, a beautiful Chabad. Um and yet, we were not nearly inundated and we were able to really relax and enjoy. And as we've said many times, it was a beautiful family trip. Not sure I'd call it a vacation, but it was a great family trip. Much needed. It's also important spending time with family, bonding, connecting. Um it was uh it was something which was was really important. So, it was good. And And now we're we're up to like Yeshivish week. What happens is I you know, I was explaining I spoke this evening for your wife's outreach program. Um Rebbetzin Brody, Simone Brody, does a phenomenal job in our community um together with her husband doing outreach. Not a lot of Orthodox shuls have dedicated outreach Rabbi and Rebbetzin, dedicated page in their weekly bulletin promoting those outreach activities. So, there's a great program. You guys have taken how many trips to Israel, men and women? Many. Um probably seven trips now. Seven or eight Many many trips, yeah. Yeah. So, you've led many trips to Israel. And as a follow-up, there are ongoing conversations, classes, learning opportunities. So, tonight she was doing flower making. I don't mean flower like for bread. I mean flowers like flora for the Shabbos table. And I spoke for a few minutes about the beauty of Shabbos, the reason for Shabbos, how Shabbos liberates us, the ultimate guilt-free snow day once a week, how Shabbos is the payday, the payoff for working hard all week. Spoke all about it. So, I was explaining to them I was trying to teach them about Yeshiva week. Explain to them. But if somebody doesn't know, never heard of Yeshiva week, like you can't explain it. Don't leave your house. Don't get out from under your bed. Don't try to find parking. Don't go shopping. And you're out of your mind if you try to go to a restaurant. You're simply out of your mind. The The notion of what descends upon us in Yeshiva week. We love it. Our Our brothers and sisters from elsewhere, they come, they visit. We love it. You know, we have Boca Raton synagogue has every morning two Sephardic minyanim. And we also have Let's see, 6:25, 7:00, 7:45, 8:30, 9:15. We have a lot of options, right? Well, during Yeshiva week, my office is right off the main shul and I can hear through the doors. There was a 10:00, 10:30, 11:00. Just Just Yeshiva week. Yeah. Yeah, the The shul's official minyanim, that doesn't matter. Right. It's whatever Whatever time you get there, you have enough people, you start a new minyan. Right. So, you know, that's the way it goes. You take your life into your hands to go out there in Yeshiva week. So, that was last week, Yeshiva week. And now it's Yeshivish week cuz there's a whole group of schools who don't want to be off when everyone else is off. So, therefore, they wait another week. Right. know if you've seen Now Now we have the next wave coming through. So, first of all, the uh the word on the street is that next year, they're going to move it up a week. Have you heard this talk yet? I heard such a rumor. There's a rumor going around that maybe it'll be a week earlier to coincide with maybe Yeshiva University's vacation. I don't know. There's a lot of talk out there. So, people are I heard such rumors. I heard such breaking news. Yeah. It's a big Florida becomes a big melting pot. And you got to love the weather. Yeshiva week, the temperature drops from like 75 to 45. And everyone from New York says, "Oh, it's so great." I had somebody while we were away those couple days, there was somebody visiting from Toronto, Yeah. a Rabbi, and friend. And he said his kids are desperate to swim. Do I know anyone with a pool? I said, "Feel free to go to our home. We're We're not there. Go right to the backyard." I said, "But But you do know it's freezing cold. Like nobody in their right mind would get in a pool." They swam. They swam. Yorkers. The other You know, we've had this cold spell. We're not going to complain certainly to people listening to us from elsewhere in the world. But we we dipped into the 30s, which is pretty much unheard of in Florida. I put on the heat in my house. Did you put the heat on? We did, I think, for a day. Or Or we just we turned the air conditioner off for a day. I don't know if we put the heat on. There are a lot of people in Florida who don't even know if they have heat or not. They just have it on the air conditioning setting. They've never used the heat. When you put on the heat, at first it smells like your whole house is burning down before the before the heat actually kicks in. So, we we had those um we had those cold spells. It It almost seems like every year Yeshiva week, they bring down that that cold weather to the 30s. So, we had this other day where, you know, when I left my house in the morning, it was in the 30s. 30s, that's cold for us. So, I was wearing a sweater with my suit jacket. Def- It's a look when you have a gray beard you can pull off. It's like a Mr. Rogers kind of, you know, You You could pull it off. I actually saw myself in the mirror and I I thought like, "Who's that old man?" And then I realized it was me. Okay. The gray beard with the V-neck sweater, tie underneath the suit jacket. It was like all professor like Rabbi in the Yeshiva Ram look. Like really like really old man look. I started Yeah, I startled myself when I walked by the mirror when I saw myself. But anyway, when I came to Mincha, it had the temperature had risen to to 70. So, the people at Mincha were like, you know, short sleeves, people in shorts. Like, "Why wear a sweater?" I said, "I look like an idiot. It was in the 30s this morning. It's twice the temperature. It doubled Yeah. during the day, so." We've got the iguanas falling out of trees. It's that time of year when the temperature gets so cold. They fall out of trees and then they thaw out when the temperature comes back to life, so. What else is going on, Rabbi Brody, since our last episode two weeks ago? I'm so excited. Someone got me a gift subscription to this pro- to this uh learning program called Chayenu out of Chabad. And I've been studying this for the last four days. Mm. And I'm really enjoying it. I even I I even learned some Yiddish. I'm doing one part I'm doing this called the Hayom Yom, which is the Rebbe's uh teachings in Yiddish. Many of them are in Yiddish. And uh they translate it, but I'm I'm trying the Yiddish. Mm. I love it. I love it. Chumash and Rashi, little Rabbi Yeah. Listen, it happen- It happens to be you might be learning Chabad right now. Yeah. What What rank are you in Tzivos Hashem? See, I haven't I haven't entered that yet. I don't know how if I'm too old to enter that. I'm just telling you I'm just saying. I don't want to like flex here, but you're you're a private. Ich bin a general. Ich bin a general. Well, listen to this. I'm a general. You're a general. Der Alter Rebbe is a sack. You need to grow a beard if you're going to try to play with the You're going to try to play with the big boys in going to have to you're going to have to grow a beard. So there is um there is some development and news. You know, we had a bad honesty on our on our program and behind the beam and we went behind the beam with him and he spoke a lot about the interface that he does at Simon Wiesenthal Center the difference between interfaith dialogue and cooperation and the definition of who is a missionary versus an evangelical and really informative got great feedback on that episode and uh since then I do on every other Thursday night I do a question and answer with someone online with meaningful minute and uh did one that centered around this and that video went out pretty wide. And I'm I'm honored to tell you that got several emails of people who apologized for misunderstanding misrepresenting and even someone made a video online a video apology. And the way that came about is they had emailed me saying that you know so sorry I'm one of the people that kind of harassed the show and wrote you text uh wrote called called phone numbers and harassed people and I I spoke out on social media and hey I guess I was wrong so sorry. So I said thank you I appreciate that it takes a big person but just curious that you used your name when you were out there criticizing and condemning I noticed you're emailing anonymously privately when you're apologizing you might want to consider just going on record again. So it took a few days but to his credit sent me an email with the YouTube link he put out a video with his name and I said I apologize I was wrong shouldn't call people heretic. And and the phenomenon though which is worth mentioning is we've seen this in other areas of life of people who are radicalized that there are individuals who use the gift of technology to promote and express fanaticism and they radicalize innocent people who sit at home and consume that information and emotionally get moved invested in it and feel compelled to act. Um it's possible there's some conversation maybe with figuring out someone who reached out might have been the one who forged a letter from Schechter and it's a similar phenomenon along the similar phenomenon along the way is being radicalized. Right somewhat naive or innocent people who listen to fanatics spew lies hatred slander and then become radicalized as a result. So on the one hand gratified by that apology and and and some of the people who have come to see the truth. On the other hand we have a lot to be concerned about about how easily people are misled fake news and and easily radicalized to act and we're lucky that they were radicalized to harass and to spread a false narrative and not to do something much worse and more dangerous. So in that sense we were we were lucky but it is something that we have to to worry about and care about. You know I loved the way he he he got on this video and made the apology. It wasn't just that my name is so and so and I apologize for what I did but you saw that it wasn't prepared and he said it wasn't prepared and he spends about 5 minutes working through you could see in his own mind what he did wrong and how he is really regretting what he did and then the damage he caused. And and I guess it's a warning and this is what I would say what I try to take away from it is that we're we may all be guilty of it. You know we have to be educated and really careful and judicious consumers of information. In this information age where anyone with a keyboard and internet connection can write post record stream anything they want say anything they want it's up to us the consumers to to really be smart and to know and to understand and dissect and you know is this vetted is this credible is this reviewed just because somebody what's up to something just because you saw it somewhere doesn't mean it's true doesn't mean it's true. And so the burden is on the producers of information but the burden's also on the consumers of information to do so judiciously and wisely and correctly and uh that's a that's an important lesson take away. Well it's nice to see it hopefully there'll be more. Yeah I hope so too. I hope so too. Someone's asking that we share it maybe we'll we'll put it in the comments here tonight. What else in the news speaking about misinformation that's out there um I'm kind of embarrassed to share a name with her. And no many people have asked but we're not related Whoopi Goldberg and I no relation. Is that a fact cuz some people say that it you might be related. As far as I know we're not related although I I saw somebody on Twitter called for Whoopi Goldberg and Rabbi Goldberg to sit down and and talk it out. Well you've done that before with some professional athletes you know you've helped show them Yeah I don't think it'll be happening here. What what was your takeaway as somebody who's led countless trips to Poland and you're well versed on the Holocaust and you've you've you're an Holocaust educator March of the Living what was your takeaway you know is is Listen I've I've I've I've seen a lot of Whoopi Goldberg over the years and you know I never looked at her as as one of the haters and one of the those that you would consider an anti-Semite there are many in Hollywood that are and it's very clear that they are. Um I watched what her what her statement was and I watched her again on on another show explaining her statement and I can definitely I look condemning it I'm not I don't want to get fired and I'm not getting you know two weeks on uh probation here. If there is I'm sure there's other things I probably deserve that for but but uh but when it comes to no but when it comes to uh what she said I definitely hear that there's confusion out there in terms of what is the difference between race and ethnicity. You know if you look up the definitions race clearly and most definitions I looked up today online we're always talking about features and the way you look and color of skin where this miss ethnicity is a culture so it's again I get hit Hitler you macho man was about race to Judaism was you know Well I would Well I would separate out hold on I would separate out because you know there's there's the question which is legitimate to debate what are the Jewish people? Are we a people are we a nation are we a religion or a race? There's there's a discussion to have about that right? We're all in You have black Jews and white Jews and you have uh Hispanic Jews and Latin Jews and you have you have every type of Jew so what are we what does it mean to be a Jew? It's a fascinating conversation one can have that debate but that's entirely different than trying to she's she said both on her show and then when she appeared on Stephen Colbert where I thought she just doubled down on her mistake she referred to the Holocaust as white on white. Right white white people fighting with white people. By the way as if the Jews were fighting back with the Nazis right her her language was just atrocious insensitive offensive ignorant and to double down and to say you know what yeah I was thinking in the classic race definition of color of your skin but you're right now now that I've been educated you're right that Hitler and the Nazis in the final solution was all about the Aryan race eradicating and exterminating the inferior race the Jewish people. That was Hitler's own language that was Hitler's own motive that was Hitler's own so you know maybe maybe when you first made the mistake you get a pass that you were thinking about it differently but when you apologize what you got to say is I was insensitive and offensive I was ignorant you're right I come I've come to learn how Hitler used the term and how the Jewish people feel about the term and I was wrong and 100% you're correct. Instead she tried to talk about well the Ku Klux Klan walked down the street I have to run cuz the color of my skin but they'd walk right by the Jew. So I want to tell you a story. We were on vacation last week in northern Florida and we were in a town that doesn't have a lot of Jews and a woman walked by my family and yelled hey you ugly Jews. I wrote about it in in in our weekly last week and it was on Asian elsewhere about that experience and that about being a victim of a hate crime of anti-Semitism. You know think how we weren't traumatized too terribly but in fact my kids very quickly pivoted to say you're going to use this in a drasha or an article. My kids very quickly used it to make fun of me but um and I said the same thing just for the record as soon as you told me that. Yeah and of course it came out in an article right away. But my point is this is why she's wrong. Now maybe we're recognizable because of my yarmulke cuz the beard cuz of my daughter's mode of dress I I don't know why but but she's wrong that the Ku Klux Klan would walk right by. They wouldn't walk right right by me. Right. That woman didn't walk right by me in in St. Augustine. She yelled an anti-Semitic slur. So it was just it was ignorant she doubled down on ignorance. Well the real question is the real question is so ABC suspended her cancel culture hard at work. On the one hand a piece of me applauds that the the Jew and anti-Semitism should just as much be protected by cancel culture but on the other hand what does it really do? Right maybe it would have been better to say that she's not been suspended but Whoopi Goldberg will be touring the Holocaust Museum will be sitting and talking to a group of survivors will be coming to understand will be taking a trip to Poland when Corona allows. She's going to educate herself on this issue cuz that's really our goal and and I want to bring our guest on momentarily we've already gone deep into the into the program but um Remember when Malcolm Hoenlein we went behind the beam with Malcolm Hoenlein? Yep. And by the way we've had the who's who what what episode is this number 70 whatever. This is the greatest scholar in residence program on the planet. Right. And it hasn't cost one penny we don't pay our guests one penny. We've had the who's who the greatest we've had athletes and we've had rabbis and we've had prominent business people and we've had NFL owners and we've had judges and we've had anyway when we had Malcolm Hoenlein on behind the beam you remember he cautioned us not to label everything anti-Semitism be very careful who you label anti-Semitic and what you label anti-Semitism and this is probably a great example of that. You are right. Whoopi Goldberg is probably not an anti-Semite. I don't think she's anti-Semitic I just think she's ignorant. I think she's a fool. I think she's speaking um again why because the view Is she Jewish by the way? Is she Jewish? So, I saw someone pointed that out. She kept describing herself as not being, but apparently she was born Karen Elaine Johnson, changed her name to Whoopi Goldberg, and in a bio somewhere online someone wrote that she identifies as a non-practicing Jew. So, I don't know, but you know, my point is you know, I don't know, cancel culture, suspend, don't suspend, but better to educate. How about win her over? Wouldn't it be great if she came back on The View and said, "You know, I've taken the time, I've studied this, I understand where I was wrong, and I want to share with others why this is really important for us to not be uh to not be out of line. So, You know, you know, can I just tell you that that I I think the most surprising thing was if you watch the show, I kept looking at the reaction of the other three or four people on the same panel. And at no point did they jump in. You look You saw that like they were confused. They're like, "Is there something wrong? Is there something being said right now that shouldn't be be said?" But there was no one that just jumped at her and said, "One second. Right. What did you just say? That That's Correct. Correct. Kind of strange. Yeah, bizarre. Bizarre. In any case, we have an amazing guest on tonight, Myron Sugerman. We know him well. He's been coming to our community for a long time because he has uh a son who is a prominent rabbi in our community and one of the biggest talmidei chachamim and a great teacher of Torah and a dear dear friend. He was born in Newark, New Jersey in 1938, followed his father's footsteps into the family business, and he uh ran with a certain segment of society that we wouldn't necessarily say necessarily We would never condone or endorse or support. Um when you talk about the mafia, the mob, the Jewish mafia or mob, certainly is not part of our value system and what we believe. Um but the purpose of this interview is not to really investigate that part of the Jewish mafia and mob, um but is to understand some sides of that world that we may never have never heard of. He is the author of a memoir called The Last Jewish Gangster from Myer to Myron, and uh he has been speaking all over the world, and a um a new uh What's it called? Documentary is coming out about him. Right. a fascinating fascinating personality. So, there's a lot of parts of the Jewish mafia or mob that you may not be aware of. And uh you know, Pop is usually off-the-hook hilarious, entertaining. Tonight's conversation I think is a little more serious as we talk about some of these uh issues today of anti-Semitism and when the Jewish mafia stood up to the American Nazis and helped found the state of Israel and other examples like that. So, we're excited to be able to bring him on and and hope that you enjoy this interview. We have a privilege of being joined today by the one and only, the great Myron Sugerman, known affectionately to us as Pop Sugerman. We have the privilege of knowing Pop for many, many years. Really part of our BRS family, our community family. Pop has uh children who are distinguished leaders in our community, and uh we've been listening and learning from Pop for many, many years. So, Mr. Sugerman, Myron, Pop, thanks so much for being with us and letting us go behind the bimah with you. Okay, Rabbi, let's get the show on the road. So, Pop, you've led an incredibly uh fascinating life. Uh your childhood, uh some of the people and personalities and characters you were exposed to, uh you are a living legend. Your knowledge of the history of the Jews of Newark and of that time, Jewish participation in some areas of life, the mafia, the mob, and and elsewhere, the founding of the state of Israel, fighting anti-Semitism. We really want to go behind the bimah with you about your life and the lessons we can glean today. We've seen this rise of anti-Semitism in our time. We've seen hostility towards Israel. What are some of the lessons that we can get? So, let's let's start with your life. Tell us about your childhood. Tell us about some of the people and personalities that you were exposed to, that you learned from, and some of the things that you saw that could lend some lessons for today. Well, um it's It's a whole lot of subject there, but let's start like this. Uh my father, may rest in peace, Shuggy, hell of a guy. They don't make them like that. That world we don't we I'm not even a percentage of what that what that world was. However, however, of all of that world, the the great They They were tough Jews, no identity crisis, proud, proved to the Italians and to the others that they're just as tough as they are, and so forth and so forth. And they were patriots. They were both American patriots, believe it or not, and they were certainly Jewish patriots. The problem lied in the fact that for example, with you you mentioned in the community in your community. Well, my son is a rabbi. And how did he become a rabbi? Is because I understood as I thought more about Jewish pride that we're not going to have posterity without Judaism. There can be no Jews without Judaism. And so, as a result of that, I made it my business um within my crazy or unique world of uh living as an outlaw, uh operating a business, an out a a unlicensed illegal gambling machine business throughout the entire world, but particularly in New York and New Jersey, that it was most important that we identify with um Orthodox Judaism. And as a result, I sent Benny, who was a rab- rabbi in your world, in your community, to a yeshiva, um amongst the surprise of all of my contemporaries. Um So, my own personal um view is a tough Jew. Um Not just the physical, the mental, um the proud part and the knowledge because the pride comes from as a result of knowledge. So, as a kid growing up, my father was Where did you grow up? Where did you grow up? What neighborhood did you grow up in? In Newark and suburbs, in Maplewood, New Jersey. Um Pop was um roaring '20s, combination of roaring '20s and uh his parents, which of course were immigrants, strictly Orthodox, strictly shomer Shabbos. Grandma Sugerman, she wouldn't even drink a glass of ice water in a kosher restaurant. She used to bring her own own food. She'd bring carry a banana with uh with a piece of bread and butter bread she'd eat. And when we'd go out, I used to take her to give tzedakah to all the old-timers. So, and Pop was roaring '20s. He was prohibition, boxing uh promotion of boxing, gambling machines, jukeboxes, and he was part of the of the Meyer Lansky, Longy Zwillman world, which of course were the leadership of the Jewish mob. And of course, we all had the Hebrew school education and the bar mitzvahs for the party and so forth. And then after after that, I used to go for boxing lessons on Saturday mornings. I had to quit at the age of 12 in order to get ready for the bar mitzvah. But otherwise, once we were bar mitzvah, we really um I say that the only connection we had was on Saturday nights when we used to go to the different temple dances throughout each town of the northern New Jersey. Were you a good boxer? Did you have good skills in boxing? Uh The The object of it, of course, was to to learn self-defense. They used to put us on as kids before the Golden Glove fights or the PAL, the Police Athletic League fights, and so forth. So, it was just in a college I didn't do so good, but I you know, the object is to be able to defend yourself, not to to be able to get into a ring. In our See, in our time, uh boxing was a sport that if you went to a Jewish camp, summer camp, boxing was a was part of the curriculum. Um automatically, everybody took boxing lessons. But on Saturday mornings as a kid, I used to go down to the Newark Athletic Club and take boxing lessons from an old professional Jewish prizefighter. Uh it was my father's idea to make sure that I was prepared to put up my dukes and uh and defend myself. Um It's okay. Go ahead. No, so you So, you grew up, your father was part of that crew, of that crowd. Uh you Did you know Meyer Lansky personally? And we were he was a proud Jew involved with the United Jewish Appeal at the time of the creation of the state of Israel. Uh he was the the chairman of the And each each industry had a um um a support group for the United Jewish Appeal at that time to help create the state of Israel. Of course, my father was together with Longy and Meyer Lansky. He goes all the way back in time to the to the subject of the Minute Men, the Jews that um fought the American Nazi Party in various cities throughout the entire United States, but Newark, New Jersey, where my father was born and came from, was a battleground uh with the American Nazi Party. And um Longy Abe Reles, a woman a name which not too many people know about if you didn't come from New Jersey, was the leader of on an equal level with Meyer Lansky of the Jewish mob in the United States of America that um fought the American Nazi party Newark, New Jersey, and New York, and Chicago, and Minneapolis, St. Paul, Chicago, Los Angeles, and so forth. Wherever you had the rise of anti-Semitism, the mob uh took on the responsibility of fighting with the with the American Nazi party or with other anti-Semitic groups like the Silver Shirts. That was headed up by William uh Dudley Pelley. Um which was a very uh powerful anti-Semitic organization, white supremacists, and all the rest. So, there was a stereotype They have a stereotype, Pop, that Jews are weak and meek and passive, and they can't defend themselves. And you're saying that this group broke that stereotype. Where do Where do you think they got the courage? Where did they get the gall to stand up to this Nazi party and to fight anti-Semitism in a time that it wasn't just the American Nazi party. America and Americans weren't necessarily so favorable to the Jews then. So, how did they break that stereotype? Where did they get the spine, the backbone? Coming from the ghetto. Remember at the time of the turn of the 20th century, we started to um boxing, prize fighting was the major sport of the Jews in the United States. We had thousands of professional Jewish prize fighters. We had 1/3 of the champions of the world were um Jews and wore Magen David on their on their on their pants, on their on their boxing shorts, and uh probably identified as Jews to show that we're not after 2,000 years we're not going to lower our heads. You know, this was Jabotinsky revisionist Zionist mentality. Although, if you would have asked my father who Jabotinsky was, he had no idea. Um that the the the um the only thought that came to mind as far as the Jews were concerned at United States was to show that we will not uh tolerate um physical attacks on Jews. And so, different organizations, different mobs would um organize for the purpose of uh combating with the with these anti-Semitic organizations. In Newark, New Jersey, there was a prize fighter by the name of Abramowitz. He fought under the name of Nat Nat Arno, and he went to Longy Abe Reles, a woman who was the mob boss in all over Jersey. I mean, he was known as the Al Capone of New Jersey. And um asked his his usage of his political connections and uh formed an organization that Arno formed an organization called the Minutemen in honor of the Minutemen of the American Revolutionary War that in a minute's notice they would go fight the British. Well, our guys went and fought fought the Nazis. Newark, New Jersey, was a a serious battleground. We had a large German population in Newark and in the surrounding areas. And um Fritz Kuhn, who declared himself as the Hitler of the United States, you mock shmock um he he started in Newark, New Jersey, and in the surrounding New Jersey uh suburbs uh forming the American Nazi party, which culminated in 1939 at Madison Square Garden. They had 25,000 supporters of the American Nazi party that met in Madison Square Garden and um we had a gigantic protest against it. But this was not only here in the United States, this also was in London. There was a Jewish gangster there by the name of Jack Comer. They called him Jack Spot. And the Jews fought the Blackshirts of the British United Fascist Party. Um in 1935 or 1936 36, the It's uh you'll find it on YouTube. It's called the Battle of Cable Street. So, the Jews were were were people at that the the the social economics was not Boca Raton, Florida, nor was it Palm Beach, Florida, nor Short Hills, New Jersey, nor Livingston, New Jersey. This were people These were kids that came out of the ghetto. And so, they were physically tough because they had to be tough. You fought with each other and you had to be ready to fight with the uh with Polish, Italian, Irish, or whatever German whatever anti-Semites would come into the ghetto in order to um abuse or to rob or to steal or to beat up Jews. So, uh Longy, by the way, Abe Reles, a woman got his name Longy because the old Jews when they when the schutzem would come from other neighborhoods to beat up Jews, they would holler "Ritz for the longer." Call the the tall one longer. Longer became Longy. And that's how he got the name Longy. Um he was the leader of the of the of the mob of the Jewish kids, of the gangsters, the mobsters, and so forth that ultimately waxed very wealthy during the period of prohibition. When prohibition ended, the roaring '20s ended, that's when we had the rise of anti-Semitism in the United States of America, much like what we're having today throughout the entire United States of America. And we started to to to talk before the show started about the watching that brutal event in the in Orlando, Florida. It's It's It's It's brutal. It's hard to watch. And of course, uh one of some Rabbi Kahane from Israel sent me an email this morning, uh get the Minutemen. Have to go to the cemetery to get those guys. Is That's a problem. It's a major problem now. So, the question is how do you fight anti-Semitism? We You know one thing is for sure, you're never going to you're never going to get rid of it. You're never going to cure it. It's going to be the year from It started 3,333 years ago. Uh And even before that. And it's going to be here for till the last hour of eternity. This It's a baseless hatred. There's no explanation to it. And and so little is to be said about it. We would just have to we just have to figure out how to deal with it. All right? So, what can we learn about your childhood and some of those personalities about how to deal with it. Some What What can we learn from some of those personalities of your childhood? You talked about the Minutemen. Do you Do we Do we grow a spine, a backbone? Do we stand up to it? And do we confront and make demands? Are we proud? Do we cower, apologize, just blend in, and and try to um essentially avoid attracting attention? What What's the response? Rabbi, good good good question. We don't have Minutemen anymore. All right? Not physical Minutemen. All right? But we need mental Minutemen. You You need a mentally, emotionally, psychologically the same as you had physical, mental, psychological, emotional absent the physical. We don't have that. Our kids did not grow up tough. They didn't go to learn how to prize fight. Uh they didn't Their their fathers didn't send them to the Newark Athletic Club on Saturday morning to learn how to box. Our kids are on computers. They're learning how to be good Jews. They're learning how to do mitzvot. They're learning how to do wonderful things. But there's got to be a part of that education which teaches them Jewish pride. So that yes, we need to stand up to them. So, if there was an organization in the United States that anytime there was an act of anti-Semitism, there'd be a massive response to it. One Jew being molested is every Jew being molested. Whether it's in Jersey City, whether it's in Crown Heights, whether it's in Williamsburg, whether it's Monsey, where whether it's in Orlando, Florida, there has to be a gigantic response to it. We haven't heard one word from Washington, D.C. I haven't seen anything on I've been watching the news specifically waiting to see if there's any kind of a response from Washington. I see a great response from your governor, good guy, but I don't see anything coming from Washington D.C. There has to be that kind of pressure on on Washington. Of course, we don't have somebody that's particularly pro-Jewish sitting in the White House right now. But that doesn't mean that we should refrain from putting pressure on him. Gigantic pressure. With all of our strength, with all of our political connections, our our our influence. We need to be concentrating on this right now. Kids going to college, it's the craziest thing on the face of the earth. Parents are paying um a quarter of a million dollars minimum to send the kids to college so that the kids are intimidated by the anti-Semites on campus. There has to be a response to that. And it's got to be a powerful response, not something lukewarm. Do you think the reason we're not responding is Do you think the reason we're not responding is because we're afraid or because we're weaker, we're softer? I think we're too interested in our own money. I think that we're interested too much in the who's when I who I'm hearing all this guy sold his business this guy's on the stock market this guy doing a some kind of a financial achievement and so forth and too much emphasis on that and not enough emphasis on the question of Jewish safety and security. I think that we're just really too focused today on oh this guy made a killing in the market. This one's got Bitcoin. This one's this and that one says that. Where there's not enough emphasis on the question of Jewish safety and security. We're compromising it out for something called materialism, for wealth, idolizing the wrong people. Who's going to provide the security to fight this anti-Semitism? Are we relying on the government and legislation? Are we relying on security guards outside every shul, every synagogue campus? Or do Jews themselves need to train in self-defense? And do Jews themselves need to pay without the anti-Semites make them pay a price so that nobody else Without a doubt, there needs to be a Meyer Kahane mentality. Now, of course, everybody said oh Meyer Kahane, terrible man so forth and so forth. Horrible this, that and so forth. The guy was a hero. Instead of where we are we are condemning heroes, people that should be our should be heroic in our eyes making these people into demons. It's just a cockeyed way of looking at things. Talk about let's pivot for a minute. You met Meyer Lansky, you knew him? Yeah. So okay, so Meyer Lansky I met him in Israel in 1970. Um he specifically came looking for me, heard that I was there. I used to when I would go to Israel I'd spend time with Doc Stacher. Doc Stacher was on the same level Meyer Lansky, Longy Zwillman Benny Siegel and Doc Stacher. Doc Stacher accepted deportation from the United States and made a deal with Robert Kennedy in um to accept exile from the United States in lieu of a income tax case. Doc Stacher I was my father's dear dear friend going all the way back to childhood and he was his partner with my father and Abe Green in jukeboxes and gaming devices and so forth and so Doc when I would go to Israel I'd spend my time with Doc and so many of the stories that I know of from the mob were the stories that were told to me by all of my father's friends. Endless stories. And so Doc one day told me be at the Sheraton at the old Sheraton Hotel for lunch on Shabbos. Friend of his wanted to meet me and sure enough it was Meyer Lansky came. Meyer Lansky was concerned at that time with um another one of my father's partners who was the uh boss of the Genovese crime family. His name was Jerry Catena. Uh Mr. Catena was incarcerated at that time for refusal to testify to grand jury after being granted immunity. He was locked up and did something almost like five and a half, six years in prison for um for for contempt of for contempt of court, for refusal to testify to grand jury. Anyways, Meyer Lansky was concerned because Jerry Catena was now in charge of the rake-off coming out of Vegas and both Meyer Lansky and Doc Stacher wanted to know what his status was because Mr. Catena was responsible for their particular end of the rake-off coming out of the casinos in in Vegas. Um we had a long conversation. He knew my father. My father was one of the investors going back at the time of 1950 59 right sold out his shares in the Riviera Hotel in Cuba right before the revolution when Castro came to power. So and my Meyer Lansky, every Jew in the United States uh that was connected of course Meyer Lansky knew they knew Meyer, Meyer then knew them. And um we had a very cordial conversation which he told me that um the United States government had made him bigger than Al Capone because um that was at the time of Nixon and Mitchell government and they wanted to take some of the uh heat off themselves so they made a big deal out of Meyer Lansky. That's why Meyer Lansky took off for Israel. Uh of course the Israeli government ultimately capitulated under the pressure from the Nixon government and although they didn't send Meyer Lansky directly back to the United States they canceled his visa to remain in the in Israel. Meyer Lansky tried to get into um Argentina. Our State Department at that time sent a message to the State Department to the government of Argentina don't let that Jew off the airplane, send him back to Florida. He came to Florida. He went to trial two times and eventually he was uh they government dropped its charges. He died of cancer at the age of 81. Um what kind of a guy he was? A very proud Jew. 100% patriotic. When he fought the American Nazi Party in Yorkville uh Lucky Luciano said to him Meyer, I'll give you all the guys that you need in order to beat up those Nazis. All right. And Meyer Lansky says to Charlie Lucky Luciano, he says thank you Charlie. He says thank but however I'm uh appreciative but this is a Jewish problem. It's going to be resolved with Jewish fists. So he went up to Yorkville with a group of guys and they did an effective job beating the crap out of the Nazis the same as what our guys were doing in North New Jersey. There's a very very good book written by a friend of mine called The Nazis in North by Warren Grover. Um I wish I could take my passion and give it to every Jew on the face of the earth. I live for this, Rabbi. And with this passion it's the most I I live it 24 hours day and night. And it's it um I wish I could convey that to every Jew that this is the most important thing on the face of the earth is your Jewish pride. And by the way, you strengthen Jewish pride by knowledge of Judaism. And I continue to say that, you know, there can no be in the future can never be in the future no posterity of Jews without Judaism. It can't and that was the problem with Pop's generation is that it was a one generation source of pride. The children today unfortunately without reinforcement of knowledge of Jewish education unfortunately kids are 70% married outside of the Jewish religion. So that Jewish pride that we talked about needs to be reinforced with both knowledge and with passion. Mr. Sugarman to be they got to know there's no We got to know about Jabotinsky. We got to know about Menachem Begin. You got to know about Yair Stern. You got to know about the names like Eliahu uh Hakim or Eliyahu Eliyahu Bet-Zuri the the the boys Yitzhak Shamir the the the two boys that Shamir sent to to uh Cairo to assassinate Lord Moyne. We need to know about Barazani. We got to know about Feinstein. Names that people don't People that don't know we know got to give those kids the the the the knowledge about our our struggle to create the state of Israel. It wasn't created with uh mitzvah mitzvot. The mitzvah uh we teach Yes, go do mitzvot, but at the same time we got to teach our kids Jewish pride, self-defense. Should be part of the curriculum of every yeshiva on the face of the earth. Teaching our kids self-defense. Not to be scared. Israel, when you ask the question of boxing, was I any good? Was good enough as a kid. I you know, was a good scrapper, but the most important thing was not to be afraid to take a punch. Not Not run away. Well, I think that's uh What Just wanted What What did the rabbis or the community leaders uh say about what was taking place? Did they say to you behind closed doors, "We're we're happy to see that this is being taken care of?" Did they try to discourage you from doing it? What was taking place among the leaders? of the Minutemen. So, everybody was proud. Everybody Everybody shared the pride of it, but uh You had They were the Reform movement was uh against it. Uh They publicly denounced it. These are Jewish ruffians and so forth. This is not the way Jews behave themselves. I can't I can't understand politically that kind of mentality. Jew We didn't create the state of Israel with the mentality of Rabbi Stephen Wise. You created the state of Israel with the mentality of Rabbi Kook. The our mentality of of the of the Jews at the time of World War II was pitiful. There was no protest. The only ones that we had was Ben Hecht and Peter Bergson. And if I mention those names, people say, "Who the hell you talking about?" And they were the the outspoken members of the only outspoken voices for the protest against the the Holocaust, which everybody knew about. Not a word was said. They loved Roosevelt. This I've got a passion. I wish everybody had my knowledge and my passion. If I could If I could put that in every human mind in every Jew's mind and heart, I'd be the happy I would say that my life was a success. But not what I'm what I'm thinking, what I'm saying. Let me Let me ask you another question, Pop. So, so um Behind the Bima, of course, does not condone the mafia mob or mob personalities or illegal activity. Let's just be very clear. Behind the Bima is not condone or support that. Uh but people may not be aware that the the mob or the Jewish mafia was not only involved in fighting the uh American Nazi Party, they were also instrumental in the founding of the state of Israel in terms of smuggling weapons. Could you speak a little bit about the story of getting weapons to the founders of the state of Israel? Let's talk first about the mafia. All right, about the Jewish mob. All right? The Jewish mob was a response to crazy governmental laws. Uh No, wait. No. No, I'm not going to condone it, either. I The early The early Jewish mob were involved in drugs and involved in prostitution and things and activities which most lowest form of human behavior. No ifs, ands, or buts. Um Okay, that's another discussion for another time. Yes, on the question of the of the help supplying weapons and arms for the state of Israel, uh there's a book called The Pledge. It was written 1970. I can't think of the name of the author right now at this particular time. However, the the Jewish mob played a very significant role in supply of weapons and arms and particularly in the shipping of illegal weapons and arms. Remember the time of 1948, Truman was the president. Yes, he recognized the state of Israel. However, he invoked the Neutrality Act of 1939, which stated that supply of weapons and arms to Palestine, either to Jews or to Arabs, was a criminal activity. And so, in order to be able to create the state of Israel, the Zionists depended upon the supply of weapons and arms provided by both legitimate Jew Jewish businessmen and the and the mob. Now, in the question of shipping of weapons and arms, of course, the port of Newark, Hoboken, New York, Bayonne, and so forth was controlled by the longshoremen. The longshoremen was controlled by the mob. By after the exile of Lucky Luciano to Sicily, the longshoremen came under the uh leadership of Frank Costello and Albert Anastasia. The Zionists went to Meyer Lansky and to um Longy Zwillman and asked them for their connection their help and support to go to Anastasia to Albert Anastasia and to and to Frank Costello for the longshoremen to cooperate with the Zionists in in the shipping of uh illegal weaponry to Palestine. Uh All of that was done uh with the full cooperation of the longshoremen. Um Because all your your weaponry was declared under uh of course, fake manifest, bills of ladings stating agricultural equipment fertilizer and so forth, where they were shipping uh dynamite and all forms of weapons that were gathered up and and and um and brought to the port of New York and our guys, together with the longshoremen, packed up and shipped this contraband to Palestine. The Altalena, by the way, the very famous event the very famous episode of the Altalena was um actually uh supposedly originated with money that was gathered up by Mickey Cohen, the famous gangster from Los Angeles, who um ran a a fundraising event at a place called Maxi Slappy Maxi's comedy club on Wilshire Boulevard in Los Angeles, and that money was used to buy up weaponry to ship to um on the ship uh called the Altalena, which was an Irgun operation. And um Well, the rest is all history. The Altalena, everybody pretty A lot of people know about it. A lot of people don't know about it, but it was almost the cause for civil war had not Menachem Begin uh ordered ceasefire. All right. What was your Pop? You had a relation Pop, you had a relationship with Simon Wiesenthal, and he enlisted your help, also? I volunteered my services as a kid. I was in Vienna, Austria. Uh My wife was a Jewish girl. Benny's mother's My wife was from Argentina. And so, I was very impressed with the capture of Eichmann in Argentina. One second. I'm going to just take a drink for a second. And um I was in Vienna the first time doing business. And I sought out Simon Wiesenthal. I went to his office and introduced myself. And I became very very close with him. And over the years, raised a tremendous amount of money. I felt that the pursuit of Nazi war criminals would while I I wasn't going to be a Minuteman because there were no more Minutemen, I felt that my responsibility as a Jew was to help in some form track down Nazi war criminals. And so I and I offered my services and Simon Wiesenthal and I became uh I was my mentor and I became his disciple. So, when I would travel all over South America doing business, he would give me messages to deliver to certain people and to pursue certain knowledge. Um see certain people. Uh he was known as Rabbi Akiva in South America. That's the name he would everybody referred to him as. And in Paraguay, um I tell the story that I was sent to see a fellow by name gentleman by the name of Luis Schimstein. And um he did tell me that there was a sighting at that time of Josef Mengele. Honestly, I I'm I tried to remember more or less when it was sometime in the early 1980s, middle '80s maybe that I that this story took place. And um he told me that there had been a sighting. But also at the same time in Asunción, Paraguay, he told me um meet me at a at a cafe outside of Asunción. I took a taxi. I went to see him. He said, "Please stay out of Asunción, Paraguay asking questions about uh Nazi war criminals, particularly Mengele. He says, "This is not a very healthy environment for a Jew to go around asking questions about uh Nazi war criminals." The third the dictator of Paraguay was a grandson of Germans by the name of Alfredo Stroessner. And um he was responsible for protecting uh endless numbers of Nazis that sought refuge in Paraguay. Um And he told me, "You're putting yourself in jeopardy and you're putting the Jews of Asunción, Paraguay, where a small community. Most of us are um survivors of the Holocaust of the concentration camps. Okay. So, and then that that same evening or same afternoon uh when I was getting ready to go out to meet uh for being taken out by uh business associates um he was waiting for me in the lobby. And he told me he was overwhelmed with an American boy that had no connection whatsoever with uh Shoah. And that there was and he was going to give me the name and more people to go see and so forth. He never showed up again. He swore to me that he would go to see Wiesenthal, bring him information. About a few months later, I was on an airplane and going from Asunción, Paraguay to Buenos Aires. There was a couple sitting next to me, old-timers, and they were speaking in Yiddish. And I tell them I'm a Jewish guy from uh America. And I understand uh American Yiddish, Yankee Yiddish. My level was not on their level. But anyways, they were nice and started to chat and who do you know and play Jewish geography and when I mentioned I know Luis Schimstein, they asked me, "Are you the American boy that was here a couple of months ago talking to Schimstein?" And I says, "Yeah." The woman tells me a story. They own a dry goods store in the central part of Asunción, Paraguay. I don't remember these people's names. But she told me the story that um one day she's there all by herself and in walks uh Josef Mengele. She was a survivor of Auschwitz. Recognizes Mengele. He realizes she freezes and he realizes that he was identified immediately. Jumped in his uh with his two bodyguards, made a U-turn, jumped in his vehicle, took off. Um of course, the information was sent to Wiesenthal. Uh um but supposedly or not supposedly, it was confirmed that uh Mengele died on a swimming drowned off of the shores of uh Pernambuco on the northeastern part of Brazil. Um That was the the extent of I had a long history and relationship with Simon Wiesenthal. I was the guy that he would call when he came to New York. And um of course, the the image of Wiesenthal is that he was a nominee for the No- for Nobel Prize. But truth be known, Wiesenthal was a he was a big Zionist. He was a uh follower of Jabotinsky. And if it was up to him, between you and me and Rabbi Brody, he would have preferred that every one of those mamzerim would have been shot dead. So, that's the Wiesenthal story. I can tell you one more fascinating story about Wiesenthal as evidence of as proof of what how I just described Wiesenthal's attitude as far as Nazis are concerned. But I'll leave it So, any other questions, Rabbi? Yeah. I just got a question. You know, you mentioned before how how it was so important to uh to uh to you to send your kids to Orthodox schools and go to Yeshivas. I'm wondering when when when they came home from school, did you ever hear, you know, they they said, you know, "Our friends are talking about what our father does. They're saying, you know, our friends don't want to come over. The parents don't want to let them come to our house because they're a little concerned." Was that ever a concern? I think we might have some Oh, is he back? I think we lost him. We're having a fight with the problem Hold on, Pop. Can you hear us? We got you back. Pop. Oh. We've temporarily lost Pop Sugarman. We'll be back in 1 moment. You know what I'm saying? Like like they have you know, bring your father to school day. You know, like what do you say your dad does? Yeah, Pop was in a different line of work. We didn't really get into that um specifics about his participation in that line of work, although people can read more in his book in his personal memoir Right. about uh his his connection. Uh here we go. Let's see. He's he's coming back. Oh. Great. There we go. We're back. What was your question, Rabbi? Oh. Yeah, just wondering you know, some something Yeah, the the question was when uh when uh let's say Benny was in school and they said, you know, "Hey, I'm just wondering like my dad's an accountant. My dad's a lawyer." Like what would he say? How much do you keep the family in or out of what it is that you might be associated with? When Benny when Benny was 15 years of age, in order to in order to get to train for the rabbinate, he used to come down to the warehouse and he he learned how to um um fix the slot machine so that they wouldn't pay out on the jackpot. And that's how he learned how to become a rabbi. Did his friends' parents, did they say, "Listen, we don't want uh our kids going over to home cuz maybe we're there's a little bit of a concern." And how did you deal with that? One family one fam- one family uh made it very very clear that he didn't want his kid to and it was a very It is one of the most famous of all the Jewish families in America. Didn't want his kid coming to my house because I would end up uh making him into a proud Jew, but he he said, "No, I would I would corrupt him." But the fact of the matter is that um people love Jewish gangsters. They love this particular Jewish gangster. I got no problem going anywheres and for people and getting along with people. I love people and people love me. There's no problem. Pop, there's a documentary about your life. You want to talk about I make it very clear. Huh? Is it Do you want to Do you want to share about the documentary about your life? You want to tell everybody about the documentary about your life and where they can watch it? The documentary is finished, but they're the producers are talking to studios, so they're not ready to to release it yet. And if I if they do produce it, if they do sell it, they're going to sell it to some major studio. They're going to make a movie about me. And I'm going to become an octogenarian rock star, and I'm going to need mob control, all right? I'll need bodyguards. I'll be and I'll be out in Hollywood hobnobbing with Bette Midler and with Barbra Streisand. Teaching them how to become proud Jews. Well, Pop, thank you for your time. Thank you for enlightening us with these stories. And you know, as we said, there's a lot obviously about the mob and mafia we do not condone or identify with, but there are aspects of their confronting anti-Semitism, helping get arms to the state of Israel, hunting Nazis with Simon Wiesenthal. These are some of the sides of the Jewish mob that most people are not familiar with. Anything else that people don't know? Anything else people don't know about the Jewish mob they should? Yes, you know you know that you know that the mob, both the Jewish and the Italian mob, cooperated with the United States Department of Navy in what was known as Operation Underworld in World War II, protecting against sabotage and espionage against the infiltration of Nazi spies and saboteurs. It's it's another piece of history. It's called There's a book called Operation Underworld that was written by somebody with the name of Campbell. So Nothing in this world is either black or white. It's It's um Oh God, it's so many different shades of gray that makes up the human the human experience. So again, you're 100% right. Let's not let's not glorify or make these people into perfect uh um what do you call it? Perfect heroes or perfect non-heroes, into perfect role models. But certainly, there's so much that they arrive from every aspect of the human experience. And we have to look for that. That's all part of the wisdom. Absolutely. Any closing thoughts you have for us? Any uh was King David, eh? Yeah. Any other Any Any closing thoughts? Yeah, I'm going to give you a words of wisdom, all right? And I want this to to So let's say for example uh I always tell everybody all right, when they come to me and they tell me that um they want to they want to kill this guy. So I tell them like this. Um if you have to use muscle at the end it's because you didn't use brain in the beginning. All right? If you made a mistake all right? It's you made the mistake. You misjudged the human being. You ascribed qualities to that person that that person never had. All right? And over the years I developed that thought, and I'm sure it's not the original thought but it's one that I concluded on my own that you have to in everything as far as life is concerned, think before you act. Do as much homework as you possibly can. Bet every situation, every human being. All right? Wisdom is the ultimate objective of the life of every human being. Very well said. Very well said. And may I bring you a pleasant question? I had an old gangster from Paterson, New Jersey who was my guy in the street. His name was they called him Louie Red. They also called him Louie Streaky, but he told me he says, "I prefer the name Louie Red." And he used to say like this "Everything but principle leaves this earth." I said, "What do you mean What do you mean everything but principle?" The only thing that you leave behind is the wisdom that you share with others. That's principle. You're not going to People aren't going to remember anything else about you other than the fact that wisdom that you shared with the next generation, and that's going from generation to generation to generation. He had a great statement every time I used to see him. He used to remind me of his thought. He said, "Everything but principle leaves this earth." All right? Wow. Well, I had a good time with you guys this morning. So one quick question, this is coming in. Our our listeners want to know. They're saying, "Where is Jimmy Hoffa buried?" They say if anyone knows, it's probably you know, you might have some idea, maybe. Not sure why. Any No. We're going to end the show. They want to know where Jimmy Hoffa Why? They want to go there and put a stone on his grave? Maybe. They got to make a cottage or something. And they think that I know the answer. And if I knew the answer, you think I'm going to tell them what the answer is? All right? There you go. There you go. There you go. Just wink once for Giant Stadium. Huh? We're good. All right, Pop, thank you for your time. Thank you for your wisdom. We really appreciate it. A piece of history that most are not familiar with. And we'll look forward to your next visit to Boca to continue to catch up and and hear more of your wisdom. Yeah. When I'm doing the leah in my Chabad in West Orange, New Jersey, they stand up and applaud. I didn't get that kind of response last time I was in Boca. We're going to have We're going to have to train them better. All the best, rabbis. Thank you very much. God bless you. Thank Took your life into your hands with that question, Brody. Rabbi Brody. Way way to contribute a bit behind the beamer, let me tell you. Oh yeah, miss you, Rabbi Moskowitz. I miss Rabbi Moskowitz. We hope he'll be back soon, please God. In the meantime, we'll respect his privacy. Wow. was Myron Sugerman, Pop Sugerman. Read his book, The Last Jewish Gangster. And you know, not for the show because we do not condone or support mafia or mob activity. But he's the real deal. And there's a lot in his life that is evidence that he was the real deal, part of that world. He's a character, but he also has depth to him. And and knows a lot of history. And was a fascinating conversation. So glad we had the opportunity to go behind the beamer with him. I love his passion. He is so passionate. You know I'll tell you a great story. Do you know when I I was introduced to Pop Sugerman and his colorful background? When Benny, Benny Daff, as we like to call him in the Jewish mafia, Benny Daff, when Rabbi Sugerman huge talmud chacham, dear friend, turned 40. So we're talking a little more than a few years ago. So there was a big party at a restaurant with his friends. A bunch of guys went out with him and and his father Pop showed up. So um So Pop says, "I'll tell you what, boys, we're going to go around and if everyone says something nice about Benny, I'll cover dinner." So So everybody goes around and everybody says something nice. And it was a very diverse group of guys that were there. Very diverse group. However you define diversity, by age and by by observance level and knowledge and every description of diversity was diverse. So everyone went around and and what many people pointed out was, you know, what makes Ben very special, really amazing, is he's beloved by so many. He doesn't just fit in a one group or one crowd. Everyone who knows him, no matter where they are in what they're at in life, they all love him. So Pop gets up and he says "Let me explain to you why Benny is so diverse. Because let me tell you about his childhood and the kind of people he grew up with." And then he goes up and starts talking about all these guys. Longy and Blue Eyes and Red and all these characters and guys. He starts telling stories and all about them and Ben's life and childhood. But it is amazing because Pop did not grow up observant. Right. And he was not building a family that was observant. And he decided out of nowhere that he was going to send his son to Jewish school. And um he tells the story in his book about when he told his wife, "We're sending him to Jewish school." And his wife said, "Over my dead body." For the punchline, I'll let you read the book. Find the end of that story. But he ended up sending his son and and he's part of Orthodox community now West Orange and and Ben's a huge talmud chacham and has built a beautiful family. So it's interesting, given that colorful background and colorful personalities and the business his father was in that he inherited, it's it's really something fascinating. So check out the documentary and and the book. We don't condone. We don't endorse. We don't support illegal activity or activity that's against the Halacha, but uh uh you know, the Rambam quoting Aristotle says you could learn learn from wherever the truth comes, even if you don't take everything, but there's wisdom, there's truth, and you can you could take it, you could learn it. Closing thoughts, Rabbi Brody. Yeah, it just makes you think, you know, are are we weaker than than than we should be? Not weaker than maybe previous generations, you know, we've spoken about that, the heroes of the Holocaust and how and how they fought back and and and would we have the the the strength to do that today, you know? Yeah. Like he referenced that what are our kids doing? They're they're you know, we'd like to think they're all learning Torah. I hope that they are, but you know, when they're not, they're playing video games. They're not they're not putting on boxing gloves. Um Well, some somebody sent me that they think that we need to do self-defense classes. That the Jew today needs to grow up with some self-defense classes. You need to know. I mean, look at what happened in in Texas. Right. And you need some training. God forbid someone's holding you hostage. You need some training. What if somebody comes in? Active shooter, right? We do those lockdown drills and we do that training. So, does a Jew need training that what if you're walking down the street in St. Augustine? I got in trouble cuz I said the location, but that's not where we were staying, so I didn't give away our great vacation spot. We drove to go to St. Augustine, the oldest city in America. Huh. Oldest city in America. Hm. By the way, do I look younger tonight cuz fountain of youth? Oldest city in America, St. Augustine. So, you need training. What what if that person didn't just yell a slur? What if they raised a fist? Now, I'd like to think that I take care of my family, but Right. I don't know why I would think that. Yeah, cuz in fifth grade we took we took karate. There's really nothing in my childhood or my own experience in life I'm a red belt. Yeah. Tora Tora Joe Dojo, you know. Most violent act that's happened to us is like somebody at the kiddush trying to talk to you, so they're spitting egg salad in your face while they're talking. Like that's the most violence that we faced. So, I don't know. I'd like to think that I'd be ready to handle it, but but would I? So, do we need to have training? Should we be having self-defense classes? Do Jewish kids today need to grow up to know if you're walking down the streets of New York or St. Augustine or whatever, somebody raises a fist? I mean, once a week you see a video online of security camera caught of a Jew being beaten up on the street somewhere or someone's walking by a helpless Jew and out of nowhere they raise a fist. And and do we need to have self-defense? Right. Before this year, you never heard of it. It was unheard of and now it's like would you would never imagine it. No, there were always those people who'd raise that and you'd be like, "Come on." Right. likelihood? What's the incidence? What What's what are the data? We used to have Remember back in the day, we used to have a karate class once a week? Yes. In in the shul. There's a member of our shul who was driving up somewhere from northern Florida and he was driving in his truck. Must have must have had a yarmulke on, not his baseball cap. And there were a group of like skinheads who yelled at him Oh. and said, "Hitler and the Nazis should have finished you off." So, like I would have driven away as fast as possible. This tough Jew, he pulls up to the lowers his window and he says, "You know what the difference was between the Jews of Germany and now?" So, they looked at him kind of puzzled and he said, "The Second Amendment." In other words, what he was packing in his pocket and his car. Now, should Jews own guns? This is not the time. Behind the Bema does not weigh in on gun control, gun laws, and those issues, but I don't know. In my whole life I never thought so, but you hear about a rabbi being held hostage in the shul. What if there were a gun under the safe of my desk, which people have encouraged me to have, and I was trained? You can't have it and not be trained. Right. It has to be legal and you have training. So, do kids today need training in self-defense? Should should rabbis know own and know how to use a gun? These are questions we never had to ask before. We never dreamt we'd have to ask here. Yeah, but I'm just wondering if people are even asking the questions and or or we just like to think like just don't don't don't worry about it. Let's hope that it won't you won't need it, you know, and it's Right. It's a phase we've had. It's a phase. It's corona irritation. Uh Question. We don't have First of all, we don't know what what's coming. I'll tell you again, the people who are like, "Ah, we're on our way back to Nazi Germany 1930." No, we're not. You know, right now you have and I would disagree with Shuggie on this. You do have a White House. You have a White House, a Senate, a House. You have governors and mayors who all speak out against anti-Semitism. They speak out. They legislate. It's just not true. The elected officials in America are fantastic. By the way, our soon guest, we went behind the Bema with Ritchie Torres, Congressman Ritchie Torres. He was fantastic on Twitter this week. Spoke about Whoopi Goldberg issue we spoke about racism and the Holocaust and he's spoken out against anti-Semitism. I can't wait that we're hosting him live in Boca Raton synagogue in a couple weeks because he's he's wonderful. And Riverdale's about to get him. Yeah. Yeah. So, there is that fundamental difference that our elected officials, I think, are excellent. They're outspoken. That doesn't mean we can rest. It doesn't mean we can relax. But you saw that video that came out of Orlando this week. Yeah. Where people were saying maybe that was Boca. I mean, I don't know about you, but I got a few texts that morning saying we heard that something happened in Orlando and in Boca. It turns out it was only Orlando, but Right. Well, yeah, we had that we had that van. Right. Drove by? The right. Defense League. The Defense League, yeah. Right. But these guys are so filled with hate their words and and uh you know, what they're screaming and yelling about. Somebody sent me an email this week and I know we're going late here, um but it's an important topic. They read my article last week about three reasons to teach the Holocaust and anti-Semitism and I spoke about confronting, standing up, and so on. And they wrote to me um I won't say which Yeshiva they went to. Let's just say same as you. And they wrote to me saying that they were taught there that Halacha it's we know that we have we have a tradition that Esau hates Jacob. Esau hates Jacob. And because Esau hates Jacob, so um that the correct posture is anti-Semitism has always existed, it will always exist, and therefore we should not not defend ourselves, but sort of, you know, blend in, bow your head, don't stand up, don't confront, don't create more. Just kind of pull back, go under the radar, let the anti-Semite scream and do your best not to get killed. And I wrote back that I don't think there's any tradition like that. If that were the case, how does Israel have a have an army? How does Halachically Israel shouldn't have an army? Don't irritate and and don't aggravate the anti-Semites cuz anti-Israel are anti-Semites. So, I don't think we believe that. We don't believe that. And we believe that we have to defend ourselves against anti-Semitism and part of the way we defend ourselves is to proactively stand up to it. Right. we hold people accountable, take them to task, shine a spotlight, pass legislation, there are a whole bunch of ways that we actively or proactively defend ourselves. You could wait to defend yourself until you're being struck, or you can get up and you can um you can defend yourself by acting in a proactive way. So, um interesting question. Goyim.tv. Anyone wants to watch the episode when they drove by us and also yelled at us that we should They they had a van that was their messaging was all off. On one side of the van it said the Holocaust never happened and the other side said Hitler should have finished you off. Right. If you're going to be a good anti-Semite, you got to get your messaging consistent and you got to be good, so. You want to really be shaken If you want to be shaken, go to goyim.tv and watch that stories. So, and that's what the people in Orlando were promoting, which might be why people confused that our fact-checker is texting me that people might be confused because the Orlando guys were promoting the same website as the people who drove by and screamed at us, which is goyim.tv, so. It's unfortunately an ongoing issue. We'll have to keep talking about it. We we we interviewed, if you remember, the young man who was beaten on the streets of Manhattan. But it's so interesting. Even after that happened and it happened to someone just like you and me, nothing changed. Like we just go on as though it's not going to happen again. And it will happen, unfortunately. Rabbi Brody, thank you for the conversation. It's fun tonight. We miss and we're looking forward to welcoming all the Maskowitzes back. Please have in mind Esther Teela bas Sarah bas Tziporah, Carmiel Shai ben Reiza. We should hear only good news. Amen. We've got great we've got great guests lined up next week. Can't wait. Next week a big guest, but can't announce it yet. Um but super excited. Best scholar-in-residence program in the world behind the Bema every week. We're a shul that every single week has a scholar-in-residence. Right. It's pretty amazing. And if you like the show, go on and give it a nice rating because it's jumping up in the charts. Oh, yeah. Yeah. So, I forgot I'm not supposed to say that anymore, but you can. I'm saying again. Say it again. Everyone knows how to go. You just go on Apple, you go on your iPod, you give it a rating. Five stars. Is that how you do it? Are we five stars? I don't know how many stars you can get. I mean, what's whatever. 10 stars. We're 10 stars. All right, everyone. Till next time. Stay happy, stay healthy, stay holy. We are out.