#151: Behind the Bima - Congressman Ritchie Torres & Shabbos Kestenbaum

from Boer home Florida this is behind the beima on this episode Rabbi Goldberg and co-hosts Rabbi Philip mosit and Rabbi Josh Brody are joined by Congressman Richie Torres and by chabas kenow a Jewish student activist Congressman Torres gives an inside view into his support of Israel and what makes him feel isolated chabis shares his experience on the ground at Harvard and his lawsuit against the university discusses how he is moved by the kutsar rebbi and inspires with his Fierce Jewish pride and Leadership Plus reflecting on the world that has changed post October 7th bringing humility and honesty to us all all this and more behind the Bea welcome to behind the Bea honored as always to be joined by my dear friends and colleagues Rabbi Philip moscot and Rabbi Josh bro this is a powerful powerful episode it's really a sad episode as we are talking about unimaginable unimaginable topics we never dreamt of Congressman Richie Torres back on behind the Bea for a second time he's been to our community a champion of the US Israel relationship and standing up steadfast friend of the Jewish Community against anti-Semitism but hearing what he describes and what he shares about the the price he's paid to stand with the Jewish people within his own family let alone within politics breaks your heart and chabis kmam talking about the stories he's goingon to say death threats to his life I don't know gentlemen to me this this might be our saddest episode we've ever had not the people they're Heroes and and they're eloquent and they're incredible but this topic and the reality of the stories that they're telling and what we're dealing with I I think this is the saddest episode it definitely was eye openening that that's probably more of the word that I would use but an eye opening in a very sad way I I what chabis kmam described as going on on Harvard you can't appreciate even through the news even through watching and reading you can't fully appreciate what these college students are going through and I do think there's a little bit of a disconnect between the experience that they have in the relative Safety and Security that you and I feel here in boka they are putting themselves out on the line every second of every day to defend a cause that you and I believe in in near and dear to us and I admire them and you know there's a part of me that wishes I could be doing more and and looking in the mirror and saying maybe I should be doing more and they're risking everything for this and it's really heroic and amazing yeah and the question is what's going to be with the next group of graduates that graduate high schools across North America are they going to be following and going back to these universities or they're saying no it's over we're not going do do you you see the images of the of the tents and of the campus takeovers and what's going on and there's a lot of students pushing back and and you see some you know there's a prominent Jewish professor of Colombia who's been who's been pushing back um do you wonder I say this not as a criticism so if my friends are listening and watching I I love you and I'm not criticizing in the least I'm asking and I'm curious because I'm just trying to imagine this were happening local to us do you wonder like why why haven't we seen any familiar faces like should should local rabbis and local communities be like today we're going to col Columbia going to Yale we're going to Princeton we're going to Penn we're going to MIT we're going up to you know we're going up to Harvard like or or maybe you know you're you're you're adding fuel to the fire don't give it more attention don't risk your lives because these things are really dangerous they're not they're not a joke like do we wonder meaning I guess what I'm asking is If This Were happening more locally Palm Beach or down in Miami like having a flyer and a rally and be like a bus down and here we are we're getting in their faces and we're we're grabbing Alan burger and David burger and our our people that we hide behind but but right they next to and and would we be there should we be doing that well that's what I kind of meant with the disconnect I mean that was that was the premise of my comment is that you do wonder I would hope that there are conversations and my guesses that they've been told that it will add fuel to the fire and it's unhealthful to be able to do that but um it definitely locally I know the two of you two of you would be revving up you'd have the car packed with your flags in the back and you'd be ready to go I'm thinking about flying there like I just yeah it's hard it's hard to feel like a um a passive spectator to be standing by and not doing more but I want to share with both of you and I want your reaction my other takeaway from this episode in these conversations really really extraordinary people and extraordinary conversations is that these are two people these are two people that I wouldn't say before October 7th because we knew Congressman Tores then and already admired his love of Israel but but if Congressman Torres didn't have on his resume and towards the top of it being a staunch pro-israel Advocate these are two people who are self-described liberal Progressive Democrats right marching with and standing for things that um either either the currently or previously we would disagree and disagree strongly about we might you know if the cameras off have things to say we would never call anyone a name but you know we we certainly have we'd have a huge distance between us and here we are and not only not focused on those differences and those disagreements and those labels here we are saying these are heroes you're amazing we wish we could be more like you we're so grateful to you and we we've discussed this in the past but there's others in that category right I am among those I am among those I'm embarrassed to admit who looked at a John fedman and said this stroke victim like what is he doing in Senate look how he dresses look how he carries himself look what he's what is he doing meanwhile the guy's my hero guy's my hero with this little Israeli flag and waving it and absolutely undeterred to stand with Israel so my my point about this and and really feeling it after both of these conversations is is this a moment for all of us to stop and say let's be less definitive and conclusive and confident in our positions about people and things like the world's complicated the person who you thought today you have nothing to do with and is on the opposite side of what you believe in and you even negatively or want to work against could rise to be the hero of your cause like just be less be a little more nuanced be a little softer be a little more subtle wait and see find commonality like in everything it's a major moment I think in all directions there are people we thought were in our camp and they're nowhere to be found that we l them and we we touted them and we worshiped them and they're they're absentee they're people we thought we're on the opposite side we have nothing to do with and and they're right it's like maybe it's a moment it's a huge moment of humility I think and I don't know that the humility is there you I'll tell you he's been doing this brilliantly for years and it's why we love them so much is Apac and we'll talk a little bit about with Congressman Tores about how he got involved in pro-israel advocacy and activism but you know for years APAC was investing heavily in communities that you and I at least on paper wouldn't necessarily say we have anything in common with students on college campus which we disagree with vehemently on a lot of policies you know we'd go to policy conference and they'd always put up people who view the world very differently than us but they for years have recognized that if you invest in those relationships early on if you can get someone at a level where they're just developing their perspectives on on the world and policies and you can get them at a student council level or whatever and you can bring them in and educate them about Israel forget everything else who they're going to march with and what they're going to do if they're going to grow up to be a pro-israel advocacy that is a win for the pro-israel community and they've been doing that for years they've been investing heavily into it for years yeah absolutely I say I would just say that it just comes back to relationships you know here you have a relationship maybe with an agenda the agenda might be Israel but in general there are many people live in our community that are definitely on the other side of something they're not bad people they're just different they're just they have a different opinion but they could be your brother and they could be your sister if you just are open to that relationship more than that what re Goldberg saying it's not just that they're different but they're also our brother here he's saying they're but on the one issue that you and I care about more than anything else they are hitting a grand slam home run and for that we may have overlooked that we may have overlooked a John Federman we may have look someone because of you know before but on policy one and that grand SL Overlook them by the way and APAC will tell you that they knew John fedman was great on Israel just nobody was noticing that because of his hoodies and his shorts and his and and and and the stroke recovery sort of nobody knew that but if you took the time I guess that's my point is that we shouldn't see some part of someone as the sum total of who they are oh you're a liberal Progressive oh you're a this oh you march with that oh you stand for this or you care about that you and I now you're that like that's what therefore you're now the other yeah but rather okay but let's talk more about oh you love ksk and kidus and Poland wow we have so much of that in meaning and I'm gonna say I don't want to get in trouble for saying this and and shabas I apologize to you if if this comes out the wrong way but but this conversation left me feeling humbled humbled by how much they're doing and how inadequate I feel but also and and even more humbled by but if October 5th someone would have said I got this great guy shabas kast I'm having on behind the beima I would have been like when the the kid who marched with black lives matter and LGBT and the kid who's who taught here and works with that they would say well he's also into okay but no that's not a and I'm humbled I'm humbled by I would have been overlooking and dismissing I would have not been connecting with someone from whom I could learn so much and I it doesn't mean we wouldn't still disagree or have important disagreements and conversations I just think post October 7th this is an enormous opportunity right it's humility about the fact that we've always talked about how ready Israelis and the government IDF can stop anyone and there's enormous humility not for us to have there's enormous introspection self-reflection humility on that end but there's also I think just a general humility and in how we label people and what we assume about people in in every direction there moments and that's that's my feeling of this being humbled and humility and and I hope I hope I hope for myself I'm not talking about anyone else to be able to use that humility into approaching things differently with people going forward and not seeing them only by that particular label about what we disagree but to to be challenged it's really this week's par you have to the like okay let's find what we have in common let's find what we care about together let's find where I can learn from you and admire and that other peace doesn't have to become the whole part of who you are you know first of all I agree 100% the other takeaway I had from the conversation is that these are people that literally are living every second of every day in defense of Israel and their lives are so dramatically different from October 7th we've spoken about a lot the the connect the disconnect between diaspora jewry and jury and Israel and you know we struggle with going on with regular life here in America even though despite what's going on in Israel um you know we've spoken about on behind the Bea going to Simas in the aftermath of October 7th of you know doing events in the aftermath of October 7th these are people that have fundamentally changed their lives as you said they they've earned enemies death threats but they wake up every morning with a calling and the calling is that post October 7th Israel needs us they need people who are who are outspoken and they need people that are going to be in defense of them and they've changed everything and they are living with like an Israel centered lens on every moment of every a waking day and I think for us you know again I I think we've done a okay job of doing that but it's just a reminder of us that you know if we're here in the diaspora we're here outside of Israel and we're not fighting on the front lines we can't afford to get tired and we can't afford to be sheepish we can't afford to be embarrassed to State our opinions we also have to live every second of every day of Our Lives if we're going to be in diaspora either feeling the pain in defending our brothers and sisters in Israel absolutely I I think the big question is how do you do that in other words so you've taken many trips we've given checks and we've raised money and now you have these wars on college campuses what do we do it's what do what else how do you how do you connect we're not going to Israel next week we're not going to college campuses next week thank God Florida's safer than most but and we want to do something you want right now what can we do for a college campus it's it's scary to think that there you know there's that line that like I tried to change the world I realized I couldn't I tried like and then I realized I had to change myself so I do think part of it is every person every family looking internally and saying are we doing enough to constantly feel the pain and also to you know do our part to defend our brothers and sisters in Israel we have you know Monday is going to be Yi Corona is going to be a very challenging day for uh for we all have friends and family in Israel and I think any year Yi Corona is difficult for Israel this year obviously it's going to take on a whole new level um you know we tried we thought about maybe getting to Israel next week we're not going to be able to so we'll be here in Florida but what are we doing for Yik what are you doing as a family to mark that day in a way that says you know there are 600 soldiers that have lost their lives since the last yon in defense of Israel over the last you know number of year 25,000 soldiers that we're going to be commemorating on yikon what are we going to do to show that it's not just a normal day but that this is a day that we Mark those who have given their lives in defense of not just the state of Israel but the people of Israel around the world well this this episode hopefully will challenge all of us to think about that and come up with our own answers and uh we are honored we're grateful and we're humbled to be able to bring you these convers ation it's truly an honor to be back together on behind the Bea with you Congressman Richie Torres thank you for joining us once again and and really much more than for being on behind the Bea from the bottom of our hearts for being a champion a champion of standing up for the US Israel relationship for fighting anti-Semitism for defending the Jewish people and for so much more for caring so much about America uh from the bottom of our hearts we we absolutely can't say thank you enough so thank you for all that you do and thank you for joining us here on behind the Bea again it's it's an honor to be here so Congressman last time we had you obviously was long before October 7th even then Israel needed friendship and and and champions and you were and are just that we thanked you then but the world has so radically changed since October 7th not only for Israel that garnered sympathy for a very short window but then is still struggling for the world to have an accurate tell the accurate story and to to stand with Israel but obviously the explosion of anti-Semitism on college campuses um we we Rec spoke with shabas kenban one of your constituents who said that you've been an amazing friend to him and to his peers at Harvard and elsewhere to help guide and support and stand up for the Jewish Community the world has so radically changed and and for you I'm sure there must have been pressure um as a self-described progressive and and a proud liberal Democrat maybe from within your own party or movement or just in general politically always if if you don't have a seat at the table if you're not in office you can't make a difference on this or other things so I I don't know if it's been even more complicated since October 7th to navigate where do you want to fall out and how do you want to stand on the US Israel relationship and how vocal do you want to be on on anti-Semitism on campus but from our perspective you haven't wavered at all could you walk us through whether even after October 7th did the pressure ratchet up has has the pressure been harder on you how have you maintained that that courage of your conviction to stay true and to continue um could you tell us a little bit about what that's been like well there's no issue on which I face more hate harassment and even death threats than on the issue of Israel um you know it's had a it's put enormous strain not only on political but also personal relationships I'm no longer on speaking terms with a close family member of mine because uh her position on the issue is quite different from mine and she's jumped on the free Palestine bandwagon on on social media uh even my mother's been the target of harassment they were active who said to my mother you're a genocide mother and you should have aborted your son and so the the viciousness of the attacks on me and my family are hard to overstate uh but if you allow yourself to be bullied you're going to continue to be bullied that's one of the lessons that I learned from the Bronx and for me the greatest threat to the US Israel relationship the greatest threat to our liberal democracy does not come from the far right or from the far left it comes from the cowardice of a center that lives in fear of the extremes like Franklin Roosevelt was exactly right when he said the only thing we have to fear is fear itself and I for one refuse to live in fear um you know I feel the Achilles heal of most elected officials is a pathological need to be loved by everyone and thankfully I'm so socially ill adjusted that I I have no need to be loved by anyone and I'm willing to stand for what I believe in even if it means standing alone and even if it means facing excommunication from the Progressive Movement we can't thank you enough and that that must be so so painful to be so so devoted is it is it costing you first of all we said one question each but with a followup is it costing you or do you fear it costs you politically because again you know you must always be evaluating that I can't make a difference if I'm not here but I don't want to be here in a way that I'm I'm selling myself so how do you navigate that my my pral advocacy has made me Public Enemy Number One for the farle in New York City and elsewhere in the United States so I fully expect to face an aggressive primary challenge uh in the next election cycle um you know I have a diverse District I represent the largest Jewish community in the Bronx Riverdale but I also represent the largest Muslim population in the Bronx little Yemen and um it's it would be fair to say that my position on Israel my pro Israel advocacy uh is is highly controversial uh in little Yemen and so there has been some hemorrhaging of support because of the stance that I've taken but you have to fight for what you believe in you will be invited back to bokeh and and we are here to stand with you and support you in every way I might be more popular in boa ratan than I am in you're definitely Popular by us and we want to thank you again um you obviously also you've been to Israel many times even before October 7th you've been there very publicly since October 7th you've been really boots on the ground you've seen it and you've spoken to people and you've really done an amazing job of listening and I think for Israelis and American Jews even just showing up and listening is a huge statement and again I want to thank you what do you think some people don't get many many people who are protesting many people who are opposing certain policies they've never been to Israel they've never gone down south they've never seen the places where these atrocities took place what would you want to communicate to them that they're not seeing that you by being there by speaking to real people understand what would you want your critics to understand no before judging you know a wise person once said you do have the option of having no opinion uh but if you must form an opinion you should actually go to Israel and experience both the majesty and the complexity of the country firsthand and and speak to a variety of people speak to both Israeli and Palestinians speak to both Israeli Jews and Israeli Arabs see the facts on the ground with your own eyes go to a place like State Road uh for me there is no substitute for firsthand experience which is the best form of Education especially about an area as complicated as Israel you know I've been traveling to Israel for about 10 years uh when I went for the first time back in 2014 it was one of the most formative and transformative experiences of my life going to Y bashem going to the Masada and especially going to St Road I remember speaking to the local mayor St Road who said that the major majority of his children struggle with post-traumatic stress because families like his live under the threat of Relentless rocket fund and so I thought to myself imagine the trauma of a 5-year-old Israeli child seeking refuge in a shelter a bomb shelter while Sirens are going off and Rockets are being fired and adults are panicking in a state of pandemonium you know I represent the Bronx which is one of the poorest areas in the country I have constituents who live in fear of bullets gun violence but no one in the United States lives in of rockets you know none of us as Americans worry that Canada and Mexico are going to fire Rockets into American homes and communities and so Israel faces a level of insecurity and volatility that has no equivalent in the American experience and so in order to fully understand the complex security situation confronting the Jewish State you have to go to Israel you have to see the facts on the ground with your own eyes and I guarantee you if you have an open heart and an open mind you will come to realize that the reality is far more complicated than the caricature that percolates on social media platforms and college campuses thank you my followup just so in 2014 that was an apack sponsor trip that was you went with h with what what brought you to Israel for the first time so it was the Jewish community relations Council of New York yeah and I was a New York City council member at the time and I actually had never traveled abroad before so Israel was the first country uh to which I traveled abroad Congressman I'm just wondering you know everyone wants to do something and everyone's trying to advocate for for for a position that we believe in has everyone dug their heels in so deep right now that if we want to try and contact congressmen Congress women members of Congress that have a different opinion do those phone calls matter right now and to the people that are are supporting do you should is it a waste of time to keep calling and saying no to you oh you gotta you gota you got you got to do it but you're doing it already or or is it you know what we're calling you because we got to say thank you and you need a little bit of encouragement when you hear all the the death threats and everything else what what what should we be doing in our communities look members of Congress are human you know we have morale and we need motivation um you know we're flooded with hateful calls because of our support for Israel and so I feel like those of us on the in the pro Israel Community have to be as visibly and vocally pro-israel as the other side is anti-israel we have to match the intensity of the other side because in politics intensity is often Destiny uh and so I would encourage people to engage with their members of Congress Lobby their members of Congress attempt to persuade them if they're wavering or if they're on the wrong side of the issue and then and then provide moral support to to your allies um you know we're not for the the moral support that I've gotten from the Jewish Community um this moment would be an emotional struggle for me because I paid a heavy political and personal price and what has sustained me has been the outpouring of gratitude and support from the Jewish Community thank you that's important to know and we have to follow up are are there is there legislation in the works you know we watch these scenes unfold on college campuses we hear the stories like your constituent whom we just interviewed um chabas kenam and and it's it's really it's not believable to be threatened with a machete by a by a actual faculty member at Harvard and Harvard to take no action is is not even believable it's it's literally not believable Is there further legislation is there emergency or or rapid legislation can it get support on both sides of the aisle that figures out a way so that we can clean up and clear these college campuses so that we can hold the colleges accountable who are getting Federal funding or are what can we what can be done what are what are you and your colleagues doing and how can we support you with that well there's no magic bullet but there are a few actions that we can take first we need to seriously examine the influence of foreign gifts on higher education particularly from Qatar um I think we should seriously consider legislation that would ban forign gifts from adversarial countries or from countries that Finance terrorist organizations like Hamas countries like Qatar uh and so I worry that qari influence um has led to a rise of anti-Semitism and anti Zionism on America college campuses I'll give you one concrete example in K to2 education there was a in a public school in Brooklyn the qari foundation funded an Arab Heritage program obviously nothing wrong with an Arab Heritage program but it had an image of the Middle East where Israel was wiped off the map H right that was the kind of image that was shown to students in the public school system right so that has to be prevented and it's happening not only in K to2 education but even more so in higher education uh second there needs to be more rigorous enforcement of title 6 you know as you know any college or university that creates a hostile environment for Jews on college campus is acting in violation of title six and should be held accountable we should leverage the power that we have over federal dollars to combat anti-Semitism in the ranks of higher education now I have no confidence that the federal department of education is going to effectively enforce title 6 from the Ivory Tower of Washington DC given how chronically underresourced it has been and so I introduced legislation with Mike laer that would empower the federal doe to impose a monitor on colleges like col University so that you have a monitor who's on the ground who sees the facts on the ground with his own eyes and who can enforce title sex without enforcement the law is going to atrophy from neglect amazing I hope that that passes and passes quickly how how are things in your District in terms of anti-Semitism have you heard reports that Jews are uncomfortable have there been a rise in anti-semitic incidents in your District the the the you know I think the number one issue that's weighing on on my Jewish constituents is anti-Semitism I think people are appalled by the outbreak of anti-Semitism on college campuses on social media Platforms in New York City which has the largest Jewish population outside the state of Israel uh it is it is alarming and um and so that's why I I fight my heart out against anti-Semitism to to send a powerful message that I stand with both the Jewish people and the Jewish State especially in a post October 7 world when that solidarity is needed now more than ever before we we can't thank you enough for all that you do we're grateful for your time and we don't want to take advantage of it and we look forward to having you back for a third time on behind the Bea this time hopefully to celebrate how wonderful the news is and how good things are and the kind of productive beautiful things that are happening and the unity that we're all celebrating and peace in Israel and America and everywhere so um Congressman may God bless you with with strength and health and Clarity and Harmony within your own family and Beyond it breaks our heart to hear that this is penetrated into your own family in ways that are that are so heartbreaking you're paying a heavy price to which we owe you a a debt that there are not words to express how appreciative we are so God bless you thank you for all that you do and we look forward to continuing to be in touch soon God bless you as well take care thank you welcome back to behind the Bea we're so honored and privileged to have the opportunity it's not every day that you get to experience chabas in the middle of the week a big welcome to shab kmam shavas thank you for being with us we are um incredibly grateful to you for being really on the front lines in America with our war of the rise of anti-Semitism particularly on campuses and and right in the heart of things and and you've been on the front lines of that you've been courageous and brave you've been outspoken you've testified before Congress you've led a lawsuit against Harvard you really put your neck on the line in a lot of really really meaningful ways and and for that and so much more we are indebted and I want to take this opportunity to Begin by just saying thank you well thank you so much it's great to be here and thank you for the obligatory shabis pun and yes I'm sure as I'm sure we'll get into it it's been very difficult not just for me um but really for so many Jewish students here at Harvard and then across college campuses but um I was just on the phone with a colleague of mine and we made it clear to ourselves that we are not stopping this is only the beginning and as long as they are chanting their hate and their bigotry we will be on the front lines with our keas with our Star of David and we're not going anywhere well we appreciate that it means the world I wanted to get that chabas pun out of the way so we could just check that off and move on so I'm glad that we did you know let's start with this question what is the best way those who are not in Boston not on the campus with you can be helpful and supportive to you you know there's a piece of me we we ched a plane and participated in the rally in Washington we're really proud of our community we've done several many missions to Israel been there each of us have been there many times since October 7th if it's meaningful we're going to as as much as you know I'm I'm a Yankee fan I'm a New Yorker going to Boston is against almost everything I believe in but it does not I believe in the Jewish people and fighting anti-Semitism even more and if it were meaningful and and we were gonna Charter a plane and Stand By Your Side and put on our M David and our yamaka and it's hard to find a bigger one than mine we would stand right by you and by your side is that meaningful and if it's not give us and our listeners some ideas of what else we can be doing to help push the shabas kast bams forward to to you to show you support to give you continued courage sure again I I really appreciate the question um just by having me tonight you're already doing far more than Harvard or MIT or Columbia ever has done which is just listening to Jewish students it is remarkable that for Jewish students to receive Equity equality we have to go to the halls of Congress we have to go to a court of law um it's very damning to the institutions of Higher Learning in the United States but at the same time it's really reassuring and refreshing that we have so many supporters out side of our uh communities who want to platform us who want to amplify our message so that's first and foremost what people can do if you are a board member of a Sho if you are involved with your Jewish Day School ask yourself have we platformed Jewish students on college campuses have we invited them to come speak um have we heard from them directly because that's super important just listening to what we have to say because sometimes it feels like we're screaming at the top of our lungs and no one's reacting um so so being on any platform is is really just a breath of fresh air it's not about me um but it's about the message it's about there is a five alarm fire and if you care about the vitality and the security and the stability of the American Jewish Community you have to listen to those as you said on the front line so that's first and foremost um I would also say look at Harvard for example if they wanted to change they would have done it right there's nothing preventing them from implementing policies right now that would combat anti-Semitism there's literally nothing that's stopping them from disciplining students or faculty engaged in anti-Semitism they will only change if there is consistent outside public pressure so if you are in a position of influence which three of you are or if you have a megaphone on social media or within your doad you can reach out to a member of Congress you can talk to um a faculty member at a university you have a voice I think what's really been empowering um or I should say I shouldn't say empowering I should say a silver lining amidst this horror is the fact that so many Jewish people have found that they have a voice and just use it don't underestimate your own ability to affect change what about if people of a business company should should would you know I saw there were a group of federal judges who signed a letter to Colombia saying they will not take any law CLS from Colombia should we encourage people who are influential in their business to also send such letters to Harvard and elsewhere saying we're going to condition our hiring oh my I mean a thousand perc if you're out there and you're like Ken Griffin and you can resend a $300 million donation to Harvard you should do it um but uh yes in in any small way I thought the Columbia decision was excellent because it made a clear Line in the Sand that we would not tolerate this hat we would not tolerate this hatred bigotry and discrimination in our Workforce we would not tolerate this under a court of law so we are not going to hire people who come from an institution that spews propaganda and hate towards Jewish people so yes um I would encourage if you are donors to Major IV league universities number one immediately resend any donation you've given already and then make a public pledge that you will not give any more I would also argue and this may not be my place but take that money and spend it on a Jewish nonprofit on your synagogue on the Jewish Day School help with yiva tuation I think one of the best things for the Jewish future would be having students uh in high school already coming into college who are already inspired to live their Jewish life were already inspired to defend the Jewish people in the Jewish State as opposed to they're in college and they never really had a strong Jewish Education and now we're sort of fighting for their hearts and minds but if we could uh mobilize these multi-billionaires and these ballet Sedaka to refocus their efforts on the Jewish Community as opposed to these ivy league universities where Jewish students are being threatened I mean that would be amazing are there people that are trying to do one thing but they're doing the exact opposite like they they're they're it's good intentions but it's actually hurting you are there examples of like where people think they're doing good yeah that's a good question I think in the beginning for those of you who remember um I'll Sho some some background super quickly people often ask me how anti-Semitism changed at Harvard post October 7th and the answer was there was no post October 7th there was on October 7th itself I'm obviously Orthodox I have my nice Kea I don't use my phone chabus but I was very much using my phone on chabus sorry to say that in front of the rabbis to locate my loved ones I have siblings who live in Israel my nephew my aunts my uncles my grandparents and I was Mish texting them to see if essentially if they were alive or not as I'm doing that and as other Jewish students are doing that we have 34 student groups at Harvard representing more than a thousand students who are jumping out of their beds Su in their pajamas to draft what they called an emergency statement to blame Jews for the largest Massacre of Jews since the Holocaust and the response to to that was um was immediate and this is where your question comes into play there was an outside group not affiliated with Harvard not affiliated with any students who took the names which were public this was a public statement that they signed to their now 60,000 followers on Instagram and they took the names of these public signatures and they blasted a picture of their face on uh on these billboard trucks that would just drive around Harvard for days on end and um I get where that passion came from I get the idea of naming and shaming because and Bill Amman spoke about this we don't want to make the mistake of hiring them in the future at the same time I don't think that was helpful because that um was a distraction from how is it that a university that is allegedly trains the next generation of American thought leaders religious leaders politicians you know how can they have so many people who are celebrating October 7th and we weren't really able to make that point because we have to defend that hey we don't support billboard trucks driving around with pictures of people's names so well I just want to follow up on something you said earlier you Reb Gober mentioned what can people do how can we be helpful to you and you referenced that if you're in a position of authority of power if you have a mouthpiece you're obligated to use it um I do feel a little bit as I'm I'm listening to your passion and you know you follow on social media The Passion of so many students at Columbia and Harvard and MIT and so many wonderful institutions sometimes I feel like there is a little bit of a disconnect between what you're doing and what we're experiencing in our communities by and large our communities have given generously to Israel we visited Israel and we do a really great job of sitting around at our shabas table and lamenting uh what's going on on college campuses but I don't know that the average person really like in their kishkas feels like you called it a five alarm fire if what you're saying is true then then we should be chartering planes and we should be mobilizing entire communities and we should be taking funds away from certain existing programs to be able to give and to educate and to make sure that we're protecting the college students on college campuses is there a disconnect you feel sometimes between what you're experiencing in Harvard and let's take a community like bokeh like the relative safety security that we experience here um and is there a way to bridge that Gap that it's not just the college students experience that on college campuses but what you're experiencing on the front lines will directly impact our communities it might not happen for a year two years three years five years when the students that you're combating are going to hit the workforce but it will happen and that's the Bell weather for what's coming down the road so do you feel that there's a little bit of a disconnect I do feel there's a disconnect and I'll put it this way um I haven't been Z to visit B yet but although my uncle's a kabach at and Dearfield Beach so not too far um and yusi goldblat big shout out to Rabbi go okay nice yeah good guy um so he so so I I haven't been to boka but I know cats I know the high school this is not a criticism of the high school but given that it's a community school I find it very I'll be careful with my words surprising that while we Jewish students are saying that Penn and Colombia and MIT and Harvard are ordained physically and emotionally and and spiritually dangerous for your kids I find it surprising that cat's high school or really most Jewish high schools are celebrating we're so proud of our graduating senior class because they're going to Harvard and MIT in Columbia and pen and for us who are there we're sort of thinking well wait a minute aren't you listening to what we're saying it's one thing to say that we're going to send them there because they're going to fight and because we want them to be proud of their values and stand up but it doesn't seem like that is what they're saying and I'm happy to be proven wrong but it does seem like there is this disconnect of yes we want to support our alumni who are on college campuses and we want to you know tell them that we're standing tall with them but at the same time if you're just sending your kids you're sending your students you're sending your congregants to these universities it's it's it's a little strange and I went to S high school and I have only only posit experiences and only um reverence and respect to Rabbi harstar and Rabbi Crow and I had a conversation with Rabbi harstar I was at a conference in Miami and I sort of said the same thing I said it's a little strange to celebrate seniors who are going into environments of hate of indoctrination um of being challenged every single step of the way and if you want to send your students there that's great but then you all has have to also inculcate in Awareness that they will be in a a very very difficult position on day one so I do think there is this disconnect and I do think as I said in the beginning the best way to bridge that Gap is amplifying the voices of students but chabas take take what you're saying a little bit further though would you discourage Jewish students from coming to these ivy league are we ready we had Sam lesson on behind the beam if you're familiar you've worked with him at all in the efforts that he's making a Harvard graduate who tried to get on to the Board of Governors and is not giving up and that was the question we discussed with him is is Harvard are Ivy Leagues are they irredeemable are we past the point of return can they be repaired have we lost them and and you know does the world look better if there are no Jews there is that a problem um or should we fight to be there because we can't have a world in which Jew there's no Jewish participation and contribution and no voice or no seat at the table in these places so would you go so as far as to say that that I don't know if it's Orthodox students all Jewish students not only don't take pride they're coming here without saying they're coming to fight don't come here rethink where you're going yeah that's that's the million-dollar question first of all let me say that as Jews we are Innovative we are resourceful we are smart we don't need Harvard Harvard needs us um and there a lot of personal anecdotes and there also just empirical data that supports that we really don't need the Ivy Leagues The Ivy Leagues very much need their Jewish students um we also know that Harvard at in its Heyday was 25% Jewish and today it's about 4% Jewish it's not because Jews got Dumber over time it's because there was a deliberate decision to exclude Jews uh from the universities so if you want to be part of the University you have to realize number one they don't want you I mean that's very evident we struggle to get a minion every day that's also because the hill and Kad have two different manim which is a conversation for another time um but we just don't have the numbers that's number one number two I've had literally dozens of conversations with prospective and admitted students in the past couple of months and honestly I can't think of a single conversation that ended with me saying yeah I think you should come here for a whole bunch of reasons and they weren't always the same reasons but I mean why should you come I if if you can create a a a spreadsheet almost if you can create a narrative where it makes sense for you to be here because you're going to fight and you're not going to sit down you're not going to shut up then that's one thing but most of these students sort of just want an education and they just want to learn and I don't think that's what the Jewish Community needs and to be fair on them I don't think that's what they're they will be able to do you know part of our lawsuit besides the fact that we allege pervasive and systemic anti-Semitism we also allege just diminished educational opportunities I haven't been able to learn um because I have had to number one fight this cause and number two walk through hordes of students who are scream at me globalize the inata who are blocking off campus access so I just want to sit and learn and do the things that I wanted to do when I got here but I can't even do that um you know Yeshiva University which I'm not the biggest proponent of but they kind of make a lot of sense in the last couple of months why would you want to sacrifice um so much of your core values for reasons that don't make a lot of sense as you said in the beginning there are Judges who aren't even hiring from Columbia anymore there are there are Judges who aren't even hiring from Harvard anymore so the the value of the ivy league degree has plummeted numerously and explicitly in the last couple of months so you make a really interesting point because you know until now I've heard parents say it's true nobody should go to these IV leagues my child's different they'll blend in they'll be fine they'll sh they'll be quiet they'll graduate it'll all work out for them and what you're saying is the only excuse to be able to still go to an ivy league is If part of your mission is to be on SCH if you're going there not just to get the education but that's your mission is to go fight to be outspoken to be a leader to represent to make sure that a Jewish voice is still there that's such an interesting Twist on it and it puts in an a awesome responsibility on students and on the college guidance and on those parents that part of the the formula of their of their decision-making has to be not only will I be safe can I navigate it will I be okay can I tolerate the hate but can I stand up will I have the courage will I fulfill will I Rise to this Mission because if not you don't belong there yeah I I absolutely and again this goes back to high school this goes back to the responsibility on community and the shoes and the schools and the families to create in Awareness number one of the dangers the LIE ahead but much more importantly and much more fundamentally creating a Persona whereby you are inspired to live your Jewish values and you will not be intimidated by that this mob literally a mob of angry anti-western anti-democratic anti-semitic students who don't believe that you and your people have a right to exist in their ancestral homelands and again I'm okay with it I'm okay with the death threats that I receive on literally a weekly basis I'm okay with the fact that I have private armed security outside my house when a faculty member threaten me with a machete I'm okay with uh putting myself in the public Spotlight I'm okay with it you know my parents aren't okay with that's a different conversation but is your kid okay with that are you okay with that and I would imagine more that more often than not the answer would be no I'm actually not okay with that and and by the way let me just say just because I don't I don't very often get to have a platform with three rabbis we're talking about post October 7th we are not talking about I went to H so this is my my Kira for a second we are not talking about the the overwhelming over overwhelming amount of students who go off the Derk in secular College like that's a different conversation but leaving aside the anti-Semitism um the idea that you can go on a secular College in in 2024 and be that committed Jew who's just going to learn I mean those who can do it you're my role model but it is really difficult there's so much to unpack you just You Dropped a machete on us can you tell us a little bit about that story of uh the time you were threatened by a faculty member yeah yeah machete guys so it's it's pretty crazy now that I I say it out loud um the night before the spring semester was to begin I was walking through Harvard Yard and I noticed all of our hostage posters was were vandalized which is like a given that's pretty normal because every single time I put up a hostage poster it is vandalized when a couple hours but this time was different uh this time someone had written that Jews did 911 that Jews were best friends with Jeffrey Epstein on kir bbas who's the now one-year-old baby being held hostage in the Gaza Terror tunnel he had written uh his head is still on where's the evidence so I immediately report that to Dei to the president to to everyone and anyone at Harvard obviously no one response I go on Fox News two hours later there's a response so the next morning I get an email from this faculty member I no idea who he was I never interacted him interacted with him ever and he admits to doing it and then he challenges me to debate him in a secluded underpass as to whether Jews were involved in 911 this is a faculty member who not only graduated from Harvard college but has been a faculty member at Harvard for 26 years later that it gets better later that night I get these frantic texts from from professors and from from Friends saying have you seen his social media and they send me a link and he's waving a machete uh with a picture of my face AEL Allen dtz um saying that he wants to fight and he wants to bring down the Zionist Mafia and with my legal team I I told him what was happening and I also contacted the police and they said you know go inside lock the door and they sent me private armed security which I had outside my house 247 literally for for seven days when I went to kabad Friday night to DAV I had a guy with a gun follow me to make sure I was safe and by the way this is this is the best part this happened three four months ago Harvard was aware of all of it to this day they have not once acknowledged to me my complaints they have not acknowledged that this has happened they have not told me whether he is employed they have not told me whether he has access to campus it was only after I got my own Congressman Richie Torres to write a public letter this is only after I spoke in front of Congress after I went on Fox and CNN months and months of public pressure did they finally fire him and by the way I only know that they fired him because of his own social media and what he posted not because Harvard said we are so sorry that this happened we are so concerned and we are terminating his employment and the kicker is when did they fire him four days ago this is someone who threatened the life of a Jewish student he was only fired four days ago and when he was fired you could go on his social media his social media account is literally called the 911 guy and he he's been working at hard for 26 years um he he threatened me again four days ago saying that he is coming after me he is coming for more than blood but uh he h is coming for the whole Zionist regime and he's coming with a posy that no one can stop these are ongoing threats that I'm facing and again I'm okay with it because I like the fact that I can publicize we're not exaggerating we're not making this up look at the reality of being a Jew at Harvard in 2024 but if you don't want your son or daughter to be exposed to a Harvard employee waving a and shouting 911 conspiracy theories then you have to seriously consider whether Harvard or MIT or Columbia or pen is a safe viable option for your child it's it's it's simply you're telling the story and it's simply not believable if you were telling me I have a great idea for a fiction a book we're gonna make a movie and pretend there's a Jewish student at Harvard and there's a professor and Harvard does nothing it's you wouldn't sell it it's just not Rabbi that was my point earlier with the disconnect because I think we we're like oh yeah bad stuff's happening on Harvard and we see like the the tents and the camps and the screaming and we're like yeah it's it's horrible how horrible I don't think I I'll speak for myself I don't think me my family you know my my network of friends like fully appreciates the level of toxicity and threat that you're describing right now I I would actually first of all let me just say he he's not a professor he's a faculty member but I would also add that when when there are stories coming out from Harvard it's because we as Harvard students got those stories out so last week for example when the New York Post had on their front cover Harvard has fallen and it was a picture of all the Hamas on campus at the Harvard Harvard Hamas homeless shelter when they replaced the American flag with Palestinian flag you know we took pictures of it and we sent it out to the media so everything you're seeing is what the media decides to publish because it's what we've given them but that's only a fraction of what's actually happening there are many things either that we just couldn't record we couldn't get pictures of or the media is not interested in publicizing so for example when I had last year a class called uh it was called settler colonialism nationalism setler uh settler colonialism nationalism and religion the case of Israel Palestine when I had Professor State as a matter of fact that the treatment of Palestinians by Jews is comparable to that of excuse me the treatment of of Palestinians by Jews is comparable to the treatment of Nazis um at the hands of Jews it's comparable because the Jews had to wear stars of David and the Palestinians had different colored passports you know that might be interesting as an anecdote but that's not like a picture I can take that's not an article you could write about when I'm in a a film screening on campus attended by the dean of the school where they say that the Jews have internalized the ways of Nazi Germany and a former spokesman of the PLO is a a panelist at this film screening and saying on Harvard property that she never understood how Jews could be so terrible until she visited aitz and then it made sense because we've internalized the ways of Nai Germany and that is received by thunderous Applause by the dean uh by the department heads by the students those things are happening I was in that room I can tell you as a matter of fact that that occurred but it's not going to make the front page because it's just so normalized and people are not interested in publishing it so I would argue that it's actually a lot worse than people are being led to can ask a question I have a senior right now my son's in is a senior and he the only school he applied to was Yu after after uh you know his his yiva year but I'm actually looking and I couldn't find it I just found it there was a letter that went out to the schools on November 3rd it was a Friday it was AR shabas November 3rd I guess this was right after what happened probably in Harvard when there was a lot of concern and this letter is signed by it looks like the heads of schools of maybe 40 different Yeshiva high schools in New York and Chicago Florida all over the country Canada I see over here basically saying that you know we're obviously concerned and we put together a new Coalition of heads of schools of every one of these places and we're going to ensure that we're going to be in touch with all of them and we're not going to let them into our yeshivas unless we can be assured that that they're safe for our Jewish students now I don't know who they're talking to because I'm a parent of a senior and unless maybe I'm not on the list of people to communicate with because my son only applied to Yu but I'm pretty sure that's not the case I haven't seen one email going out since the beginning of November when things have certainly gotten a lot worse that you what do you know anything about this Coalition of of heads of schools that said they're gonna make a difference I haven't heard anything yeah I all I know is that Rabbi KH went on Fox News probably around November time um Rabbi KH of TABC to talk about this I was not aware that there's a coalition and as I said I'm happy to be proven wrong I'm happy for my high school um s and Ras and frish and and Hessel and all these places to state that publicly but if you are a I think it's pretty public I think all those schools you just mentioned are on this list it's a public letter that went out okay then but it went out in November good when things were scary but now things are in a different planet it's funny if you read those letter you're like oh we were so concerned then I wasn't really concerned that and now I'm really concerned and I haven't heard anything since right so then so then I would hope that whichever High School signed on to this letter I would hope that they would not allow any college recruiters within 50 feet of their school property I would hope that these high schools who signed on to this letter would not allow College recruiters to interact with their students because as you said it's only gotten worse um I I was in DC yesterday and I met with a chairman of the the house Ways and Means Committee Jason Smith a terrific guy and he told me or excuse me he asked me you know since Claud gay was uh resigned she was fired you know what what has it been like since and the answer is it's only gotten worse you know on on a a private social media site called SC chat which is reserved for Harvard students order to be admitted onto the site you have to show you're an active Harvard student um students were writing that quote Jews there are too many damn Jews in this country that Jews control the media that Jews pushed a black woman out of her position just last night someone posted again these are Harvard students people we sit in classrooms with people we share study halls with someone had written to a Jewish student that I hope your family was kidnapped and I hope that Hamas killed all of the hostages the these are people were sitting next to in classrooms these are meant to be the Future Leaders of the United States um if these are the Future Leaders then I can tell you America is in deep deep trouble we are in a serious inflection point in our country and the Jewish high school should be the first ones to stand up not just in a letter but in action May is definitely college recruiting season and I know when I was in high school around May was when we had college night when all of those universities would come into our building I cannot fathom and I cannot understand and maybe they're not doing it I'm happy to be proven wrong but I cannot understand if s would allow a Harvard admissions rep into their building I just don't get it just an hour ago before I logged on to this call I walked through Harvard Yard and at least 300 students were chant chanting Palestine will be Arab and globalize the inata why are we normalizing this and why are we encouraging our students to go to these universities even if they do want to fight why should they be exposed to this filth it's not right it's a very low bar it's a very very low way that we can contribute to this fight is to I mean you talk about love insensitivity is to invite the enemy into your own home you know and and and it's a very small show of support to simp say that if you're mistreating your students who are there don't come try to recruit new ones you're not you're not welcome you're not allowed shabas Phil where where are we with this lawsuit what is Victory look like what are the chances of Victory what what are you hoping to to accomplish what what does it look like right hoping that the university comes in and all these universities shut down a lot of agitators have come in it's not all students we know now how it's funded and we don't need to talk about that but you know hopefully they they just need to enforce the laws and shut down these these mini Gaza and that that's that's obvious sort of not simple but but simple but but the more systemic issues in terms of these students these professors these ideologies how does this lawsuit impact that what do Victory look like is it is it redeemable sure so so first of all you mentioned the mini Gaza I just want to say I officially coined the term the Harvard Hamas homeless shelter and Ben chapiro said it on his podcast so that's that's my claim to fame um first and foremost Jews are not asking for special treatment under the law we are asking for equal treatment under the law we want Harvard to discipline and to punish anti-Semitism and the same exact way that they discipline and punish all forms or other forms of hatred discrimination and bigotry that is the fundamental piece of our lawsuit when I was accepted to Harvard two years ago my reaction was not great now I can sue the university my reaction was great now I can be in a pluralistic nonsectarian environment where I can not only contribute and contribute my Orthodox uh identity but also to receive to be in this warm welcoming environment it was not I now I can sue them but unfortunately we were put into this position because time time again Harvard uh kind of like the Palestinians never missed an opportunity to miss an opportunity they've either been unable or unwilling to meaningfully change their ways so victories kind of manifest in two different ways one is the the exact things we're asking for in our lawsuit so number one we are asking for for damages um punitive damages and also full tuition reimbursements we are not paying a single dollar to an institution that stab Jews in the back repeatedly um it is absolutely absurd that it's gotten to this point but we are not backing down and we are going to make sure that Harvard is held accountable in that sense we also want to make sure that there's a federal monitor um on Harvard's campus to make sure that they're complying with their title six obligations for those who don't know title six is a component of the Civil Rights Act that prohibits discrimination uh by universities or especially universities that receive uh federal dollars which is another issue we could talk about from discriminating a whole host of identities including uh Jews or or religion so we want them to comply with that we also want them to acknowledge that there's been a breach of contract the contract that I've engaged in as a student I've had diminished educational opportunities as I mentioned I've had to miss class um at many times I've been scared to walk through the campus I had as we spoke about this machete guy that is not a normal sign of a functioning democracy or functioning institution of Higher Learning when uh Jews need to hire outside security to follow them to kabad to Davin because a faculty member of the machete is yelling about 911 um so that is one part of the victory you know the court grants us exactly what we are asking for and the other part which isn't necessarily the lawsuit but this is just activism is the court of public opinion if we can create a culture or national push back whereby Society Jew or non-jew black white uh it doesn't matter whereby we repudiate the values I mean values the values that are coming from these universities that of anti-americanism anti-westernism anti-Semitism if we can repudiate that and say that Harvard and MIT in Columbia they do not represent our values I think that would be incredibly powerful and I would argue the lawsuit is super important and we are not backing down but the court of public opinion is also important and it goes back to the very first thing I said amplify the voices of students we are the ones who yes we're not in Gaza we are not fighting with Machinery or tanks and weapons but we are fighting on the Battlefront of ideas and that is a battle that's being fought 247 and you have to have an active uh role in that everyone in the Jewish Community across this country needs to have skin in the game whether that means supporting Jewish students and listening to them whether it means talking to administrators or universities whether it means barring them from your synagogue or to your your your uh your high school everyone needs to have skin in the game and we will be far more effective um in that even if we win everything in our lawsuit what's What's the timing of the lawsuit where where you holding with it how is it being funded is there need for help with that sure so can I just add also here I just I I saw Alan dersert on the news two nights ago where he was saying that he's representing any Jew that is attacked I believe he has a new organization something where he's going after yeah he will exactly he will sue you he said on the news I will take their homes I will take their livelihood I will take them down yeah yeah Allan uh Allan Mr dtz uh he's been a a big uh supporter of the Jewish Community here at Harvard he's not part of this um he's not representing us but you know if he wants to I he knows where to find me um but yeah his his whole attitude is her a Jew we Sue so our lawsuit was filed in mid January I think it's also important uh to to remind every remind to tell everyone that throughout this entire process I told my legal team that should Harvard change course we're not going to file the lawsuit because there would be no need I don't want to do this I don't want to go to court I don't want to have to be deposed um I don't want to have to be very careful with what I'm saying because sort of like Law and Order everything you say Canon will be used against you in the court of law I'm I'm a 24y old what do I know um but the reality was someone had to do it because Harvard has been so unable or unwilling to mend the clear uh danger and pervasive and systemic anti-Semitism so we filed the lawsuit to mid January Harvard filed a motion to dismiss with prejudice about four weeks ago totally taking zero responsibility they have a 40 page ridiculous argument saying well look at all of our statements and look at our task forces and look at our condemnation I mean total joke you can all read it it's all online I mean read it and then we responded right before pesak essentially saying that action louder than words and how can you in a straight face say that we are taking meaningful steps when literally an hour ago I'm walking through Harvard Yard and I have individuals who are recording me and following me and intimidating me while screaming Palestine is Arab and globalize the inap what a joke so C Benson Torres is representing us they actually used to represent Donald Trump so that's a pretty uh cool I now say that me and president Trump have the same legal team which is pretty not really true but it cool um and are being funded I want to be careful with my words we have a generous supporter but we always would welcome more supporters so you can definitely just Google CWS Benson Torres and their ways to get involved and support us um and then a judge will decide uh May 30th a judge will uh hear both of the Motions to dismiss our lawsuit and also our response against the dismissal of our lawsuit and that could take a couple of months we're very confident that this will go to trial at which point I will be deposed but also I'm going to ask a lot of things from Harvard we will enter a period of Discovery where we want to know exactly uh among other things where is the money being spent that you are getting from Qatar and Saudi Arabia and Russia and China why is it that you haven't meaningfully taken action against students who are engaged in anti-Semitism why is it that the center of Middle Eastern studies is is being propagated by Hamas supporters and include uh speakers who literally appear on panels with Hamas members why is that so there are a lot of documents that we are going to request from Harvard and Harvard should be scared I'll just end on this this last note I've been told and I don't know if this is true but I've been told that the same legal team that represented and helped Claud and gay prepare for her disastrous Congressional testimony is the same is the same legal team that's helping her is helping Harvard with their current suit against us if that's the case I feel very confident about our chances wow is there is there a way for them to settle with you to avoid the half the discovery yeah absolutely they could settle with us right now if they wanted to um Harvard should be scared because they're in the wrong I have nothing to apologize for I'm not in the defensive position here I will not apologize for other people's bigotry hatred and discrimination Harvard knows that there is a lot a lot that they do not want uh to be out there in the public you know my lawyers always tell me be very careful because any email you send any appearance you go on that will be used against you and I say great I want Harvard to see the emails where my parents say we want you to come home I want Harvard to see the text messages where Jewish students say I don't feel safe anymore I have to take the semester off I want Harvard to see that and if Harvard wants me to expose that to the world bring it on because they just want to kick the can down the road and pretend that everything is fine and and take no responsibility if that's the game you want to play I'm not going anywhere Jas tell tell us about you a little bit because I I know that first of all about your background where where do you get the courage you know who who's your Mentor Who's Your Role Model who inspired you in this is it a parent is it a grandparent is it part of your personal history is there a rabbi is there a teacher is there a biography that you read this is your moment and and like Esther had her moment this is your moment and I don't think you have to wonder why you ended up at Harvard sort of clear to all of us why Hashem and and and our people need you there so where does it come from that you're rising in this moment and you will be able to always look back and please guide your generation to come and say when I was called upon just like you know those in Israel who answered their their moment than their call you're at a different front lines you're answering yours where where does that come from in in your history sure well well first of all thank you for that um I I wouldn't say what I'm doing is courageous and I'm not saying that to you know I'm really looking compliments here I mean that in in a very serious way what I'm not particularly articulate and I'm not particularly intelligent all I'm doing is pointing out problems what I'm doing get to Harvard all right all right what I am doing can be can be replicated by anyone and everybody um just don't be intimidated that's the one thing um so I don't think it's courage I just think it's a lack of intimidation that's one thing in terms of you know my background I'm a first generation American I was born not only to love this country but also to love my Jewish values I'm a proud Orthodox Jew and I never saw those two things as contradictory on on on the contrary I saw being an American and being Jewish as complimentary and a beautiful synthesis of two values and I wanted to share those values at Harvard University so so that's number one um my parents are are both British my dad started the first auction house in America specializing in rare Judea so uh I grew up in a house surrounded by 16th century sarim K company very cool stuffa I get ask him how I got on that email list it's a good email list it's a good email list so very cool stuff um we just sold we my dad just sold I'm ding to so he just sold the Gart of the I think it was either the ribnitzer or the visiter rebba so I got to hold the G it was very cool anyways so when you grow up in a house surrounded with 16th century sarim you grow in appreciation for Jewish history Jewish culture and the religion of Judaism and that's where I got my my my Bren for Judaism from the hius aspect really only began when I was 18 I knew I always wanted to go to Poland and my parents said you have to wait till you're 18 so I went to Poland and I just fell in love with Poland but also the kutbi I went to Kuts the background of my phone has been the Kev of the kutbi for like six years now and I've been back to Poland about 25 times I work with rebuilding the Jew Jewish life there um I've also cleaned up cemeteries there and um I work with the Aging but strong and dynamic Holocaust Survivor Community there um and and as I said my parents my my mom especially who I'm very close to and I don't know if she watches this but I'm mom and you're great and thank you for everything she always taught me the values of standing up for what you believe in and for those of you who know her she teaches at at s um she is the most patient and kind and calm um woman you'll probably ever meet and she was a bit disappointed in me actually because last week I went to the MIT encampment and seven people with masks and cfas blocked me from going and you know this was retweeted by Megan Kelly and Ben Shapiro and you know I said some not nice words some potty words but I got very very angry and she said when kind of like what Michelle Obama said when they go low you go high you know never to give into them so my background it's it's a little unusual um but at the same time I'm really fortunate that I grew up in the house that I did I'm one of seven siblings all very different some of us live in Israel some still live here in the US some are serving in the Army some are in law school and then there's me doing doing my thing um but that's sort of my my back and and in terms of like you know my role model besides my parents Daniel and hadasa kenam this is going to sound really cliche and corny and stereotypical but it is the kutar revi um his his quest for authenticity his Passion For Truth as how she would call it has been so inspiring for me and I go to university whose motto is Veritas which is Latin for truth and unfortunately truth is something that is so hard to find at Harvard um and is so difficult to to um to to to bring out from your professors and if I can make the Kut Gareb who I know would hate me and hate the fact that I'm mentioning his name and would hate the fact that I consider myself a follower of his um but if I can make the kutar rebby proud and try to bring a little truth um into this University and a little truth back to my Jewish Community I think he'll be very proud and hopefully my my parents are proud of me as well wow you mentioned you were in Washington um and uh you were in front of the house Judiciary Committee the ways and mean committee your visits there are educational to educate them about what's going on in Harvard um it's to create friendships meetings what what's the purpose of those trips and how can people be more involved in some of those efforts on Capitol Hill sure so it's kind of twofold the first is I I gave testimony in front of the house committee on education and the workforce they asked me to come so that was you know just filling my my obligation um the house Judiciary Committee has also asked me to come and I'll speak in front of them uh I think next week um and then the other committies like house Ways and Means sort of similarly they want to really understand what's happening at Harvard and across CA campuses and I'm I'm happy to to let them know Congress I okay I'll say something I shouldn't say and then and then just hear me out I've been a registered Democrat since I turned 18 I again don't judge me I voted for Bernie Sanders twice um I'm doing my koua don't worry but I'm happy to compare my Progressive credentials any day of the week I March for black lives matter I March for the lgbtq plus Community for abortion rights um this is not a part and by the way I'm not that liberal Progressive anymore don't don't worry um but this is not a part as an issue and I've have made friends on both sides of the aisle Republicans and Democrats and when I say people like Jason Smith and Alise stonic and Rich T and Virginia Virginia Fox and Burgess Owens when I say that they are the most powerful advocates for the Jewish people not just in the United States but in the world I mean that uh seriously the these people have have a Nisha that um I hope to have they have a dedication to the Jewish community that I hope to have these are remarkable individuals and remarkable policy makers um and and in addition to having their personal support they're also putting the legislative pressure on Congress so for example why should Harvard have a tax exempt status why should Harvard be given T hundreds of millions of dollars every single year um why should Harvard not be forced to deport students engaged in anti-Semitism and violating the law so all of these policy makers want to create legislation and want to enforce the policies already on the book so part of what I'm doing is education it's also building relationships and as I said it's not a partisan issue so regardless of your politics you should thank you should call up people like Richie Torres and Alise stonic you should thank Kathy Manning and uh Virginia Fox because the bipartisan nature is so overwhelming and so beautiful but also cannot be taken for granted so every time I walk through the halls of Congress I always make sure um to stop at at at people's offices and whether I'm speaking to the policymaker themselves or their team just expressing my hakara satov and and seeing them have hostage posters seeing them with you know their their necklace when I put up a hostage poster at Harvard it's torn down in 30 seconds but in Congress it's there for for months and months and it's just so beautiful to see that that was so well said and and we we agree wholeheartedly that's what our sh stands for too many of the names you've mentioned have spoken in our sh or have been behind the Bea and and we absolutely agree and and believe in that but you touched on something that I'd love to talk about maybe maybe even wind down with which is this radical shift that you made you know you defined yourself your your Progressive credentials could compete with anybody and and the people you aligned with who you no longer do walk us through what that was like to feel your identity intertwined with movements who then betrayed and stabbed in the back and abandon um what's that like to be willing to be honest about that because there are there's a world of people today some of whom are not honest about it have yet to admit it others of whom are admitted it and therefore are confused by it and don't know where to go next or who they really are what's left of their Judaism when Judaism is those things and you had an independent Judaism right because you were you were practicing and knowledgeable and and curious Jew right seeming independent or parallel to those other forms of activism you were doing but for some that was their Judaism that was their Judaism were these movements how did how did you was this October 7th was it before that you began to realize that these aren't who I am and what I'm about or where I should be these aren't people who will be there for me how did you come to grips with that what does that mean do you have a message to others who are who were part of those communities who now feel lost or or ideologically homeless or as one prominently put on Twitter recently hashly homeless that was gonna be that was gonna be my line I was gonna say I think bashkin wrote you know Hally homeless so I'm politically homeless a commentator of his wrote that but yeah he had that conversation about what we're doing to create space for the people who are who are lost but first take us through your journey and then what would you advise people who might feel lost sure so it was Martin Luther King who said that we're not going to remember the words of our enemies but the Silence of our friends and that I would argue has probably been the hardest part of all this it's not that there are NP semites because we knew that it's not that there are people who who don't believe in the right for the state of Israel to exist because we knew that it's our classmates it's our professors it's our role models it's our politicians people who we voted for who who agree that's been the worst part so my um political trajectory is still ongoing and it's still evolving I will be honest I'm still a registered Democrat um and I don't at least in the foreseeable future plan on Switching when I was 17 years old I was a student delegate at the Democratic National Convention and I got connected with Rabbi URI pilichowski who um very much encouraged me to wave an Israeli flag and I did and I was on the floor of the democratic convention with my know eight-foot Israeli flag and I was called a terrorist supporter excuse a terrorist sympathizer and I remember giving an interview after that saying look I'm a progressive I believe in a lot of these policies but I as a 17-year-old am acknowledging that there is this far-left anti-democratic segment within our party that we must root out you asked me is the answer acquiescing to this mob is the answer to abandon the Ivy Leagues I don't think the answer is to abandon the Democratic party because like it or not roughly 50% of the country are Democrats and roughly 50% of the country will vote for candidates that we may not support anymore but for us to abandon that I think is really dangerous and I think it's also very shortsighted at the same time uh it was Colin Powell who said that uh the former Secretary of State who of course was African-American he was asked why he remained a registered Republican and he basically said because it forces the Republican party to contend with the fact that there are people like me on their team so being a staunt progressor or being a li being a somewhat liberal um but also wearing a keepa and also having Serv have siblings who serve in the IDF forces the Democratic party to contend with the fact that there are people like me who are in that party and aren't going anywhere it's easy for me to just say Trump 2024 and I throw in the towel and you know I'm moving to Mara Lago it's easy for me to do that because I know I'll be welcomed with open arms but I'm not ready to give up on this party um it's also critical to remember that I did not change the Democratic party changed my values are still more or less the same values it's just the individuals have have gone astray but I am not going to to leave them just yet at the same time I am not naive um I don't want to get all these angry emails after this podcast ends of oh did you see Ilan Omar tweeted this and Rashid I know that I I'm with you I stopped off at Rashid to Le's office last night to tell her just I mean not her her staff to tell her just that I'm aware of it but look at the end of the day there's certain policy positions that I just I fundamentally disagree with the conservative viewpoint on and my message to young people who are figuring it out is you have to be intellectually honest don't vote for a candidate because there's a d or there's an R next to their name ask questions and don't blindly follow a candidate um for one particular issue look I'm going to have a very difficult time as many Jews will be on the 2024 election who will be voting for I myself don't know who I'll be doing who I'll be voting for but but have those conversations engage in dialogue speak to those Role Models um because you're doing the right thing by just being vulnerable to engage in uh exploration of ideology I want I just want to push you one point I know R Brody wants to jump in is also a a registered Democrat but I want to push you on on on one 50% of this panel is Democrats just let go you have noide we couldn't agree more by the way the pro-israel Jewish Community couldn't more grateful that we have a John fedman we couldn't be more grateful our Congressman um Jared mosit has been fantastic and you know his predecessor Ted Deutsch is a dear friend is amazing so 100% it's not based on party lines and we have good friends and and Champions on both sides of the aisle we need to support them and keep it that way what I guess I'm curious about and and I've been thinking a lot about and and I don't I don't mean to be controversial in any way but I'm reflecting and maybe I should reflect more about myself than expected of others but you know when some were marching with black lives matter others were saying be careful they're anti-semitic their website their origin some of the people and how they align and those who said that you know we're called names and we're and we're accused of certain things now that they've sort of been exposed for who they are do the people who marched with them I don't want to say oh an apology but is is there is there an important is there an important moment to say look we were wrong you know you were right or we shouldn't have accused you of those things just because you were raising that issue you saw it before we did but now it's been it's been clear is it enough to to P I'm not saying this about you in particular you you you've heard how we feel about you and how grateful we are I don't mean to put you on the spot but is there and and I'm sure by the way that that that others have other things that they need to take responsibility I don't think there's enough I don't think there's been enough self-reflection after Corona Corona policies Comm you know there's a lot of reflection that's missing we're always so quick to move on and call on others to reflect you know but here the the people or or the the denominations within Judaism who's so embraced and so aligned with movements that it turns out betrayed us with the antithesis of us right now are aligning with our enemies calling for our destruction is there a crucial point where before things you know readjust there's this just a moment that says we got that one wrong you know sorry yeah no it's it's an interesting question I I'd say this anecdotally before Harvard um I W for undergradu I was at Queen's college and I was the Hillel president and I was on the student Senate I was very involved and there was a speaker to mallerie who was invited to campus and um for those who don't know she is just a noted anti-semite this is someone who you know applauded lisis farakhan and I said this is during the height of black lives matter and the me too movement I said we can agree with the principles of black lives matter you know I'm someone who does believe that in some cases there is systemic racism I'm also someone who believes that in some cases um there are patriarchal structures within our society but we can also disavow the mo the the movement without disavowing some of the IDE ideas and and that's what I did I said we can't have an anti-semite like Tama mallerie be embraced on our campus Because she marches for black lives matter that's unacceptable so I think you can you know walk and CH gum at the same time that's number one number two the point you're raising is really important as it pertains to the Vitality security and stability of American jewy in the future a significant significant part of the encampments which I don't think we really spoke about the encampments um at Harvard and across college campuses are being led by Jews these are Jews are wearing Tes and to fill in obviously improperly and they got it all wrong but they're wearing T they they're singing you know Lo um they went to Hebrew school and we have to recognize and to be fair many in the reform movement um have been speaking about this more openly but we have to recognize that there has been a a profound failure less so Orthodoxy but a profound failure in more Progressive denominations of Judaism and I'm saying this as someone who worked at a humanist Jewish Day School profound failures to educate young Jews on the values of Jewish identity and the Jewish homeland and unless we can address that now and comprehensively it's only going to get worse so in terms of your question of has there been this introspection this reflection that we may have gotten things wrong yeah I think so I think to be fair people were saying that before October 7th anyways um but certainly after October 7th it's it's been a lot more obvious because yeah I I can't march with the the black lives matter people anymore I cannot March and support my fellow classmates because I see the things they say on campus and the things they post on social media and the marches that they attend and no way can I associate myself with them anymore that doesn't mean I negate some of the other ideas that they happen to also as spouse like addressing climate change or U I don't know Universal Health Care but it doesn't mean that you know you have to go all in with all of their ideas because these are very just to get myself in trouble and to vle the other direction you know I think the Orthodox community segments of it have a major moment of introspection also of having deified certain political personalities and embrace them wholeheartedly and elevated you know to some stature which was inappropriate and I think there needs to be Nuance on all directions and and a little bit more thoughtfulness um and and care and concern and and being judicious in who we Elevate and with whom we align and and what we confuse and really it's it's go back to the kutser you know if we stay true to Torah and Torah guides us we're not going to fall prey to these other movements of sort of elevating or embracing or leaning into them wholeheartedly more than than Torah Torah is that unique guide which does overlap with other things and in those places of overlap we should but but we have to be much more careful on all sides and in all directions and in what we do and how we do it and I think there are those moments which seem to be missing in all directions and I don't know if there'll be a pause for everybody to be able to share I think it'd be much healthier for all of us if if there was r m RAB bro any last Qui say my 302 Trump story my 302 Trump story um just because you mentioned it I met Trump once actually twice but the first time I actually had a conversation with them and I was with a group of young Jewish teenagers and I said do you have a message for them this was over pesak and I you know it's this holiday Passover they're they're in high school what message do you want to say he said oh Jews my best lawyers are all Jewish and you know like that was his message and I think it's the ROM who says that you have to accept truth from from any source and I think we can if you support Trump I think we can also acknowledge that there are some things he says that should make us a little uncomfortable and there are some things that he says that we should push back a little bit on I think that's probably a really good example because that's a very odd thing to tell a group of young Jewish people um even though it's philosemitism and not anti-Semitism um but still get out of your political partisan bubble and this movement the anti-Semitism that we're fighting on college campuses is the perfect example you're a Democrat you're a republican you're voting for Biden Trump Bernie it doesn't matter you should not be um okay with the fact that you Jewish students are hiding their yamakas at Harvard University regardless of your political affiliations as much as a wakeup call it is for you and others to say I guess black lives matter are not who I thought they were you you know how many Republicans staunch Orthodox or other Republicans who swore against democ Democratic party who had the most horrific things to say about John fedman and how he could even be a candidate or how he could represent or how he could appear in that in that outfit and now every one of us want to honor him at our sh dinner we glorify him we love him we want to honor so it's a huge wakeup call and a message for all of us yeah about being a lot more slow deliberate careful in in in in the judgments that we make and with whom we align and the conclusions we reach and the rhetoric that we share in all directions there is I think that moment or that takeaway from this too yeah absolutely I don't know Roy wanted to speak earlier but um what would your message be to an 11th grade 12th grader in high school we've spoken about college campuses whether it go to Harvard MIT Columbia whether it go to Yu obviously that's going to be a specific teach family and and we've spoken about that but in terms let's Jewish identity right forget college campuses let's say you're just you're an 11th grader a 12th grader and you're figuring life out and you're figuring your Judaism out you're figuring out where you fit into the world what would you tell a five you know yourself five six years ago to prepare yourself again forget college campuses for a second just for a life where your Judaism and your values are going to to be under constant threat what and obviously you're very intelligent you're very articulate and you have a lot of you know azus to cadua you have a lot of healthy and I mean this in the best way possible like a a holy pride of your Judaism but a lot of kids don't have that and they don't have that background and they don't have that confidence what could they be doing in 11th 12th 10th grade to prepare themselves for what our parents would have called the real world right when you go out there and your Judaism is going to be threatened and you're going to be in the values that you assumed everyone agrees with all of a sudden you're going to realize not everyone agrees with them and people vehemently disagree with them what are some things is it reading are there books you would recommend is there a podcast you listen to what are some things that teenagers could do to prepare themselves for that for that world out there I I can State unequivocally that if it was not for my two years in Israel uh learning and growing and being passionate about my Jewish identity I would not be the person that I am today not just the lawsuit and not just going on Fox news but being passionate and being uh well educated on my Jewish identity I work with ncsy and then it's Southern fellowship and and all sorts of different programs that all sort of have the same goal of education and education through experience if you're a young person you have to understand that number one After High School you go you go to Israel for a year minimum I mean that just goes without saying um in the same way that before you buy a phone you want to make sure that you do your homework and you're buying the iPhone 11 versus the 10 because this has a retina display and this is 4G and this is LTE do your homework you can't go on a college campus and I'll sound like a hasbara activist for a second you can't defend the state of Israel if you've never been there you know I once um I let aaser I led them to Poland last month and I spoke about this idea that M makos which I never actually finished but I didn't tell them that but I said the I think it's the first per of makos it talks about what does it mean to be an Adam z z this false witness I guess is how it's translated and one of the ways that you're classified as this ineligible or false witness is if you weren't there you know if you testify that I saw so and so but you weren't there then you can't be a qualified witness so to you can't go on a college campus and say that this the land of Israel is my homeland and you never been there and you can't say that you know my my ancestors fought for my right to be here and you've never actually toured the a thousand years of Jewish life in Poland or you've never been in Yeshiva there's a great story of AR L Shan that I'll say in 20 seconds and then and then cut me off too long but 20 seconds okay raar Le is also one of my heroes he died at the age of 103 he weighed like 60 pounds and one day there was a businessman in B Brock who wanted to buy a sports car because it was improper for him in all these high-end business meetings to appear in his beat up station wagon but his wife who live of course they're living in the Neo said it's it wouldn't be proper ask RAR leyman so he asks RAR leyman can I buy my sports car or will it cause people to be jealous and Ryman said how many times have you finished shot to gamar he says what say how many times have you finished shot he said never I'm super busy I'm a businessman he said fine you're a businessman how many times have you leared the relevant laws of dealing in business ethically and he said well I'm kind of busy I I haven't he says Fine have you ever made finished a tractate of the talud have you ever finished a of G he says no I'm really sorry AR life shiman says okay I have one last question have you ever learned a daf of gamarra in your life and the businessman looks down and with a tear in his eye he says no and raar Le shinman says okay so you can buy your car because who would ever be jealous of someone who has never learned to do of gamar in their life be educated be an educated you can only be passionate about your Jewish identity if you know what it means to be Jewish go to Israel ask your teachers a million questions ask your rabis questions read as much as you can question as much as you can be educated because education will lead to inspiration which will lead to uh passion Brody last question and last word first first of all uh Orie pachowski was a by a poker home synagogue just gonna throw that in there and number two is I'm just wondering anecdotally have you seen college students saying we're done and we're leaving the secular colleges maybe going to Yu are they actually picking up and going um I haven't seen people at Harvard who are already here who left um but I know for a fact that there are people because I've had conversations with them who said I was accepted to this program at Harvard and I'm not doing it um in fact every time someone sends me that because now it's about a dozen uh I take a screenshot and um to me that's actually really it's power it's unfortunate but it's powerful that we have young Jews who are saying I am not risking my Jewish identity and I'm not battling anti-semites if Harvard wants to run itself into the ground and accept a radical minority who are anti-west and anti-American and anti-semitic that's their problem but I want no business in that and that's actually um really admirable chavas thank you for your time we could speak for more hours you know it's fascinating conversations there's so many topics that we didn't even touch on all I know is yeah all all I is that um we can't wait to see what happens next for you and when you get out of that Cesspool cold Harvard and you're really able to make a difference in this world what what's next and we'd love to host you in boa for shabas so definitely be in touch and come down anytime we'd really love to and in the meantime it does take courage Hashem should continue to give it to you continue to fight the good fight should be successful we want sweeping victories in Israel we want sweeping victories against Harvard we want sweeping victories for the Jewish people in every direction may we hear only boros to us thank you so much for your time thank you all so much take care thank you catch us next time for another Peak behind the Bea