#108: Behind the Bima - Rabbi Gershon Schusterman

the Raton Florida rabbis Ephraim Goldberg Philip Moskowitz and Josh Brody are taking you behind the bema the BRS Rabbi schmooze about contemporary issues and talk to special guests who give up behind the scenes look at how they got to where they are and what keeps them going welcome to behind the bema good evening it is Wednesday night 9 p.m I am Rabbi from Goldberg joined by my dear colleague and friend Rabbi Joshua Brody and we're here to take you behind the bema we're here to take you behind the bhima Robert Brody we've got a very special behind the bema a little bit different I mean every behind the beam is inspiring wonderful beautiful but this is a very serious conversation Rabbi Shusterman 36 years ago his wife left that morning feeling healthy and well and by the that night when he put his 11 children to bed they no longer had a mother and how did he deal with that react to that overcome that he uh wrote a book only now all these years later and we're gonna have a conversation with him how do you have faith after tragedy and much more but first everybody tell us what's going on in your life well I'm actually uh on Google right now looking at news just to see what happens what's happening in the world just to prove to people that we are a live show I just want to get an idea what's going on out there once a week you know like to check in and see what's happening in the rest of the world no but thank God things are good things are good yeah um welcome you know we always welcome the feedback of our our listeners we still debate you know should we record this portion and just post this as a podcast like others do um do we continue to meet live and banter and talk about what's going on in our lives and be very contemporary because we're live so yeah literally what's going on in the world right now is our is our subject Aaron judge signed a nine-year deal with the Yankees for 360 million something like that nine years in a long time nine years nine years you know hopefully hopefully you're a rabbi your dresses get better over the nine years but if you're an athlete of any kind how do you know you're going to perform at that level over the nine years again what happens if you don't if you can I kick you out of the contract can they break your contract without their Clauses announce but performance a lot of money it's a lot of money you think he wants to give Meister to bokarton synagogue just wondering what do you do with all that money 360 million dollars that is a lot of money yeah there's a modem event coming up on moodum is a great organization in New York every year they do a fundraiser uh the recent years they've done an online amazing fundraiser our good friend yummy shechter puts it together for them and I've had the privilege of the last a couple years to participate interviewing rev schefter this year did a little something different yummy asked me could they clip together some segments best of behind the bema so we let her listen more feedback and we have an eight or ten Clips with a little introduction to each one of a listener feedback so pay attention we'll post it on behind the beam after the amudum event but pay attention to uh who was chosen as some of the Highlight some of the best Clips best conversations best moments on behind the bema who would you want to hear if you think back on the I think this is episode 108 109 we're nearing 100. they're all good in fact there was someone walking out of Shoal tonight after or actually right before Myron I said how you doing you just had some surgery on his on his face on his eye and he says you know what I used to listen to the news before I go to sleep but you know I I realize you have so many episodes I wanted to catch up so he's been going through every one of our shows yeah and it says it's great because it puts me to bed right before we have that ability we just listen every time I meet an anesthesiologist whenever I need an anesthesiologist I say you and I are in the same business the same line of work no question well that was the famous line from behind the beam when we spoke to uh the Sandman said uh you know unre Goldberg have the same you both put them you take to the mountain you put them to sleep that's that's the uh that's true maybe the Sandman Sandman might be one of the more likely I don't know David gold says his favorite episode is Rabbi Ellie stefansky eight minutes a life-changing uh moment for some of us that was a life-changing interview of all the interviews we've done Rabbi Brody they were life-changing in that people shared their inspiration their insights but in the middle of that interview you went on your computer and signed up for the daf and you haven't stopped or slowed down since yeah you know you know what's interesting is that I was thinking about um your your uh you know you said before how was your week and part of my week now is going to this Smith program which I now I understand is taking place in communities all over the place and uh you know obviously we're we're we've just started a new suggest a new topic and it's it's really fascinating I'm learning things that obviously I thought I knew I did not really know that well it's clear I did not know and there was one part in in the middle I don't know if you could tell but I was sitting right in front of you I'm sitting right right to the left I'm sorry but but I had I had a little little uh hummus open there because I was so paranoid I had till 10 a.m to take this hummus Rashi test this is like a whole new part of my life I always take it right after but I just didn't feel like I was ready right and after the high of last week where I got a 92 the highest grade I've ever gotten got a 42 in the one this week so you know sobering you know but you took it and for our listeners everybody Brody's referring to the fact that the uh there is a halachic requirement many people don't even know it is a halach requirement to um to uh finish to read the Parsha two times with a commentary every week and remember Brody's not only doing that but he's actually voluntarily taking a test on it every week it's not obligated no degree just purely voluntary but I love that you just admitted that grade you got and it doesn't matter you showed up you took tests I feel like I'm back in high school the only difference is back then actually did get a 42. it doesn't matter yeah it counts it then you showed up you took the test anyone else weigh in feel free our live audience feel free to put a post in the comments who else would you consider a highlight that you'd want to hear a highlight clip from almost 110 episodes behind the beam who were some of the Highlight anyone else have a game changing Moment Like Rabbi Brody at least the fansky changed his life by joining the what's it called mdy and he's actually coming and and they are going to be doing a CM on uh nadarm can be doing it in in Florida south Florida when Yeshiva break outside of Israel where else is there South Florida the whole world comes to South Florida for Yeshiva breaks no question we're going to be the uh someone asked me I was at a meeting last night with a visitor from New York he said what's it like do you do you have to prepare for like weeks months for Yeshiva week how does life change down here is it like a total are you like overtaken is it it's like a hurricane coming down I feel like most people in Florida like to leave that week it's just it's overwhelming a little bit you know we welcome the guests we love them we're so happy people come and we're here to help however we can but Floridians know don't try to go out don't try to go out to eat don't try to find parking right you know that's not that's not the week to do it it's not the week to do it so thank God good stuff going on but now we have the privilege to welcome Gershon Shusterman author of why God why how to believe in heaven when it hurts like hell and uh my kids are the guest and like Abba he double hockey sticks he can't say that word you can't have that word but I wish someone's got a long beard and a big black hat it's part of how bad so you're allowed to say that word you're allowed to say that word when you went through what he went through the loss of a wife suddenly out of absolutely nowhere leaving you with 11 children to raise on your own that's hardcore so to write a book why God why how to believe in heaven despite you know going through that is it's big it's big you know we've seen the book and it's it's also an audible for those of us that would like to listen instead of read it yeah yeah so please take advantage there are people a lot of people listening watching who are going through their own pain they're going through their own hell and they want to believe in heaven and they want to believe in God they want to lean into God but it's hard so here's somebody who has the credibility given what he's been through to uh to be able to articulate a vision for it so it's really an honor to be able to bring them on and without any further ado foreign the author of the new book why God why how to believe in heaven when it hurts like hell and um certainly a provocative title A provocative subject a difficult subject and a hard subject to take on so thank you for letting us go behind the bhima with you and your life and this book great to be together I'm honored to be here so let's start let's start with this there's so much to get into about your life and the background of this of this book and this important book and thank you for the writing it um it tells a story that happened a long time ago 1986 when you were driving home and you got a phone call from your wife Allah Shalom who was not feeling well watching 11 children that day and you can share we don't want to open Old Wounds but share that story that ultimately did not have a a good ending a happy ending had a tragic tragic ending and you wrote this book about why God and how to how to believe in heaven when you personally raising 11 children on your own so abruptly so overnight you literally went through hell so my first question is this is your first book it happened in 1986 what took so long were you processing were you not ready to share were you working out some of this philosophy and some of your own feelings did you have all these ideas a long time ago but you didn't feel the world was ready yet to hear them what took so long to put this together to share it with the world all of the above um when my wife passed away I was 38 years old I was running the school with 400 kids 80 80 staff members 18 school buses I did give that up after a few years because I remarried and running a school and running a new marriage each one requires more time than the 24 hours and I figured out that I can find somebody to take over the school but I didn't find anybody to take over my family so that was the best decision under the circumstances but after that I still had 11 kids at the with my new wife God bless her raise them uh and once I was no longer the director of the Hebrew Academy and in the system quote I actually had to pay tuition and I didn't it was tough and I had to make a living I had to in that area I had to reinvent myself for another source of parnosa um I did give you know the parent body of the school the Hebrew Academy was not a from parent body maybe 20 may be stretching at 25 I'm talking in 1986 consider themselves uh Orthodox the rest were illum's a conservative reform unaffiliated but they wanted a good secular education and they'll take the the Hebrew education which was good as well uh we refer to it as we made sure that big day asov were hamudos so that yaakov can get the brachis and that's what we did um uh but the people knew my wife personally she taught for 16 years and she had a lot of kids who went through her class and stayed in touch with her after that I recently literally within the last month found out uh you guys are in boss in Baltimore I'm not going to drop the name of the hush of a person uh who I spoke to about uh who I'm speaking about now he was his his daughter who recently got engaged was staying at a friend's house in um in Miami and it was inquiring about who she is and where she comes from and what her name was rachalaya was the same name as my wife and she came and she said and she said what that's an interesting name because my friend knew my first wife and she said I'm named after my father's second grade teacher wow I hadn't known I hadn't known that then I called him up and tracked him down that must have been a source of such comfort for him it was a source of comfort I know I know if it doesn't maybe 15 names after my wife but this was a student uh not related but deeply touched so she had a profound influence on her students on their the parents of her students and so on um but the parents were shocked you know we're being invited into a new uh environment they call it Orthodoxy they don't care for the term but observant Yiddish guide where Friday night Tish a Friday night meal with a family uh add something that you can't get anyplace else um and they were being introduced to the warmth of yerushkite and then boom all of a sudden uh the the Robinson passes away the rabbi is left with 11 again I don't want to Target on other people on people's hearts because it was 36 years ago uh but you know your Simon um and the first few years were uh rather challenging shall we put it mildly they wanted how old how old were the age you were 38 and your wife was 36. both the ages of the 11 children how would the oldest and the youngest the oldest was 14. the Bahar was Bar Mitzvah and the youngest were 16 month old twins wow and they themselves must have experienced it so differently you know even though they're all children of the same mother her loss must have impacted them in radically different ways absolutely and to this day they they they their relationship with that period is profoundly different the four the 16 month old twins uh uh don't have a conscious memory of their mother uh I would assume that psychologically uh they have they bonded with their mother and that gave them the early 16-month years uh 16 months of the motherly security but after that they it took two years to remarried and they were young enough to bond easily whereas the older ones adolescents and teenagers uh it's a it is a little bit more challenging so um she passed away Dallas Nissan April 13 86 uh in July and August I gave a lecture series for the parent body seven weeks each um on the subject of why bad things happen to good people um I have a transcript of then and when I look at my book and I look at the transcript um there's it is the same fundamentals because I didn't create anything new and it's it's all the the traditional Jewish view but had I written it when I was 40 years old I couldn't have because I didn't have the time and it's only in the recent years after I've celebrated my 39th birthday uh 30 plus times um uh I was in in in how I spend my 24 hours I had more luxury to do it and I was challenged to actually put it on paper and the ultimate if I can be so candid uh after meaning to write the book for actively I've been CR collecting information and I have files and like Photo stats and notes uh uh a ton of that but when I started to actively want to write the book it didn't move I couldn't get it I actually went to a psychiatrist in Los Angeles traditional ID and I spent an hour with him he probed this he probed that nothing um and we parted ways two weeks later I called him up can we try one more time we tried one more time I can repeat we tried this he tried that he probed this he brought garnished all right we failed as I was walking out he's walking me to the door he says rabbi tell me if you are to Die Tomorrow how would you feel about not having written this book so the stiffer within me said well if I'd be dead I wouldn't be worried about that but I didn't say it I didn't say it I I kept I bit my tongue and I said interesting point at that moment I didn't actually take it seriously but next morning I woke up that sentence came back and the following day and the following day and after two weeks I said this is the time if not now when and I spent two two and a half years working hard on it I I felt [Music] very proud of myself I can write this book by myself I found out that I can't I got myself a writing coach I got myself editors and uh can I interrupt for one second instead of a Schusterman I'm I'm Blown Away by that story and your kid in this and transparency and sharing it and I want to say thank you because um we have another podcast called out of the Shadows dealing with issues of mental health and there's such a stigma around going for therapy going for help admitting that we can't do everything on our own and the fact that you this author accomplished ROV so easily share that yeah I made an appointment I went to a psychiatrist I came coming back for a couple SEC sessions I took what he said seriously I got a coach for writing we don't have to think that we can do it all alone and we have incredible resources who can help us and I want to thank you for that honesty and and candidness to to share that and and to reflect how helpful it was because you've now gifted us this book without which that breakthrough might not have happened then that that book coming from you is so important because others there are other people who could write a book about bad things happening to good people and why God but maybe they didn't they didn't lose a wife at 36 years old leaving 11 children only only somebody who's who's walked through hell can write about heaven in the way that you did and that's why it's so important that you broke through that wall to gift us this book to be able to talk about these things from position of much much more credibility than others so thank you for for persevering and and breaking through and doing it could could you go back for a moment and just share with our our listeners a little bit more the story of of what happened the fact that you so shortly after were ready to address why bad things happen to good people is in itself extraordinary maybe that was part of your own therapy but could you could you tell everybody what what happened that Sunday morning in um I lived in we lived in Long Beach California which is about 28 miles from Los Angeles and every Sunday morning I went to Los Angeles I drove into Los Angeles to give a sheer in casinos for the older bahram and the Yeshiva um and you know from probably from 7 30 to 8 30 then a diamond chakras in Los Angeles we didn't have uh any kosher stores in Long Beach we have supermarkets that had stuff within OU but if you wanted something called the Israel you got to buy it in Los Angeles they do a little shopping and drive back to Long Beach on my way driving back to Long Beach I got a call on my I can't call it a cell phone because cell phones didn't exist in 1986. I would say my attache case phone because the early cell phones were you had to carry in at the shake case it was a gun a big big deal but running to school and I had to be running around I needed to be accessible so I had an at the Shea case phone and my wife called me and from it was obvious from the third word that she was in some kind of a serious distress I all I can do is say I will rush home as soon as possible and I might have uh speeded over the limit a little bit or a lot but I came home and when the door opened I saw her and we immediately deputized our oldest son who was home who was 12 years old uh he's gonna um be the be the older brother sitter for what was going on by the way that very morning the Hebrew Academy had the uh and many of our children performed in that there was K24 so many of the kids our family performed in some of those little programs my wife also was an accomplished piano player so she went to the Hebrew Academy to uh to accompany the the performances with her piano playing uh but on the way back she started feeling unwell um and I got home we rushed into the car uh we drove to the nearest hospital which is a very Memorial Hospital of Long Beach straight into the emergency room um they left me out in the lobby I called the rabbit's office gave over a report what's happening asked for Abraham and there was have his concern on us um I had a tillum in my car I took out the film and I was saying to him less than an hour later the doctor comes out and you know that famous line Rabbi we did everything we were able to but she passed away and um my first thought was uh this is not really happening uh my second thought is possibly it is and if it's true then this is my opportunity to put everything that I have believed in everything that I taught and everything that I've preached into action am I up to it and that's where I left the question at that moment the why question is built in um before we get before we get to the Y which is the Crux we want to talk about in your book and what an important topic how does one go home and tell 11 children who had a healthy mother that morning that she's no longer here uh to say it simply you do what you have to do for me it was Sink or Swim time I had a lot of responsibilities I my character allowed me to put my personal feelings aside and address what has to be what is in front of me uh yes the scene at home uh I I wouldn't repeat it was because it wasn't a happy event um friends came over we had you know friends the staff fellow Laboratories they came over the wives came over uh and we had to you know what can I say it was leviah next day in New York and everything that goes into that uh including being interviewed by the police to make sure when a person passes away uh or in she passed away in the hospital but the the Catalyst didn't start in the hospital they have to verify that there was no foul play or anything of that type then it's Sunday Sunday I don't know maybe Brooklyn New York or Miami which is heavy Jewish communities they have a relationship with the coroner and they can release the body quickly in Long Beach California that wasn't so simple but we work these things through and um not all the children flew to New York the 16 month old uh the six to the six-year-old didn't and he to this day resents the fact that he considered himself mature enough to go and we had to draw the line someplace but so it is um we came back to a Shiva in in LA in California and it was a busy Shiva my kids uh some of them went to the Hebrew Academy some of them went to the torreshamis in Los Angeles in classrooms came their their classmates all came um and it was a time to uh you know one of the pirushim on uh what igrid um avla stimulusa or I don't know if I'm saying it exactly the the reward of going to a house of Shiva is the silence and there's a number of interpretations one is that the people should be silent and not blurred out a lot of the what's called banalities that people speak because they're uncomfortable in the house of Shiva and they want to say something but the what they want what what's good their brain is not exactly engaged and there's a you know there have been articles written about that uh uh besides that then the the people who are monogam don't speak before the oval uh indicates that he wants to speak and if he doesn't speak and then then it's silent and it's awkward and it's meant it to be awkward but one of the perisham is the Silence of the uh mourner uh that he doesn't yell and scream and turn himself and everybody else off um and means I Aaron was silent and he submitted even though the khusker says vedam iron means that he was full of Fury and andam he just shut it down and I must have vacillated between the two but we survived that it took a while took months it took years um and we remain standing all right Brody wow I'm just wondering when you look at the title of the book you know why God why how to believe in heaven when when it hurts like hell is this book meant to be read by someone that's going through a challenge right now or is it really the story of the Jewish people thinking about this week's Parsha last week's parsh the partial before every single person throughout Jewish history has gone through hell and and I'm just wondering is there something in the book or is there something that you think is a Jewish Community we should be doing better to prep people for unfortunately what seems to be inevitable that we're just gonna go through some big challenges that we're not prepared for well first thing is we pray that we don't have to go through any more challenges I mean and if they should bring mashiach and tomorrow will be out of the challenging Department being challenged department on me uh so you've asked you've asked a number of details uh one uh the book was written to give people a framework to understand grief and to understand understand Soros you know there's different words in English if I had a thesaurus I'd give you 12 problems Taurus crisis tragedy uh and there's a sliding scale of the same event to one person by the nature of his character is a problem to another person it's a crisis into the third person the same I don't want to say less significant thing but to that person by the nature of his character it's a tragedy and it has to be dealt with not on the basis of my in my analysis of what really is going on it has to be related to how that person feels about it so while the book uh seems to be dealing at least by its title with with tragedies uh it gives an overview of all sorts of challenges that people have as individuals [Music] um if you would have asked me two months ago that's when the book first hit the market can this book work for a person who is actually in a state of active grief from a certifiable tragedy I would have said no no it's a piece of paper as as eloquently as I would like to think it was written it's still it's it's it's a piece of paper it's not it's not heart to heart um it's good read it you get a frame framework and you deal with it turns out I am pleasantly and humbly surprised to say even in the two months I know of a number of real situations where people were tragically accosted by life and by nature and by death and by Hashem and I got a call from a an acquaintance of mine who lives in California he lost a grandchild a four-month-old grandchild and he told me that his daughter-in-law and Son were inconsolable um and they looked at a few books they tasted it they spit it out and then he had the book they saw it on the table they picked it up the mother of this baby wouldn't give it away for four days and she said she said to her father-in-law this book speaks to me during during her Shiva of a four-month-old child uh and I know other stories similar to that so apparently there's something in it that works uh not only for for the long term but even as first aid and at the time of need you mentioned Hashem so that's the big question right today people have slow Wi-Fi and they lose faith in Hashem today somebody sits in traffic they miss their flight and they lose faith in Hashem and and you suddenly and abruptly lost your wife leaving you with 11 children and and you never wavered in your faith of Hashem and that's obviously what the book is about to give that strength to others similarly so where does that come from how do you believe in Hashem who would take your wife at 36 years old leaving 11 children without a mother where is God how could you believe in such a God who would do something so cruel I'm asking because obviously for the people who go through pain that's the number one question I actually was just with someone who was telling me how their cousin is agnostic and their cousin um said I don't believe in a god there's so much pain in this world there's so much loss and suffering in this world I don't want to believe in a God who would either call was that or even just allow that but that makes no sense so I choose not to believe in God so how did you maintain your faith how did you raise your 11 children even though they didn't have a mother to continue to have their father in Heaven with Hashem how do you how do you encourage others who are going through crisis to still maintain their faith in Hashem okay first of all two years later they did have my new wife and who was a wonderful mother to them and uh even though as I said the 16 year olds were able to bond differently than The Adolescents but they did get a lot from her and it took a while till they worked it out and uh Unity reigned again foreign first thing is um if there is a God then he is in charge of everything that goes on like it or not uh he's in charge um you know in in the context of raising a family a parent has to be responsible for the welfare of the family uh and not everything that appearance does for the child is appreciated by the child uh whether it's a six-year-old who is being denied a candy or whether a 16 year old who is going through a rebellious period um if the parent has established credibility prior to the that particular day's crisis uh then the child will reluctantly submit and say my parent has demonstrated he knows me he cares for me and uh even though I don't understand him why he's shall we say imposing a certain family structure that I want to circumvent um but he has demonstrated who uh his authority and his demonstrate his that the authority is not coming out of dictatorship but from Parenthood uh I think about Hashem very much in the same way uh a side point but it's also a critical point um if you study Jewish history uh you know the Holocaust was the ultimate tragedy of tragedies and it happened I was born a few years after World War II my parents were there and you know people you know that generation went through uh talk about uh when it hurts like hell they went to hell and and many of them didn't come back from hell and then ended up going to grenadin through the crematorium and some of them uh went to the crematoria singing an Imam ultimately one needs to know that there's more to Hashem than we can possibly understand if Hashem was perfectly understandable to you and me it would have to be a very small Hashem a very small God that you and I can agree that we can approve of him when he and if and and that's not the god that we need we need the god who's bigger than that uh God is the creator of Heaven and Earth his creator creator of the universe you know in such a December we talk about uh the wonders of Hashem in nature today Nature has gotten bigger with the web telescope we can see figuratively uh 13.9 billion light years ago and we and it's awesome how big the nature is and that God created you and me and every one of the now I'm told eight billion people on the world and not only is he so great but he is so personal he relates to each person as an individual and when you put those things together uh you say I am one little creature of hashem's uh huge creation and Hashem cares for me too and he's doing something that I don't understand um and I don't appreciate um will I ever understand it not necessarily some things become more understandable in retrospect but many things don't but whether I understand it or not uh I believe everything that Hashem does is purposeful even if I can't figure out the purpose when when you talk this just when you talk this just a few months after she passed away do you think that you were talking to yourself as much as you were talking to the students or that you did you really feel that in that moment and believe it or was part of the teaching it right away also part of speaking to yourself and being magazik yourself and getting yourself to this place instead of a place of anger now I I would like to believe that I was it was to the extent that now I had a new live because until until that event uh notwithstanding that I was I did many levias and many visited many people in in the hospital and in the hospice and in their Shiva home and I comforted them and I may have said similar things uh but it I have in retrospect I realized it wasn't yeah I'd say from the same level it didn't come from the same heart because my heart was immature I had known as cyan in actual life of what a tragedy means and therefore I wasn't the I was a guy struggling to try to understand it uh but I worked at I was working it through I I as I said I believe that I believe I said to myself I believe this is from Hashem for a purpose even though I don't understand the purpose will I be able to live up to what I'm saying and I worked on it and worked on it and not continue to work on it and Muna is not you either have it or you don't emuna is something that needs to constantly be nurtured and it waxes and it wanes uh and you need to refresh it um Hashem is a friend and if you have a relationship with a friend uh it turns out to be a very reliable friend uh mishly it says at all times love the friend and a brother will blossom in a time of sorrow and the gemara says the Reya the friend referred to numerous times in mishley is Hashem but if you have a friend who you don't let into your home and you don't let them into your heart he wants to be your friend but you got to let him in and it's hard to uh when a person has a crisis or a tragedy to go out in your front door and put up a sign I need a friend now anybody available it doesn't work that way you have to in relation to Hashem you have to have nurture an ongoing relationship with Hashem so that has to show them if one has a crisis or a tragedy he can lean on Hashem the ultimate answer is the ultimate Comfort is I'll digress for a moment remind me if I don't get back here what are the other options the other options is there is no God if there is no God there is no tragedy there's no difference of of tsunami who takes 250 000 people no difference if a person loses his wife at the age of 36 or you drop a piece of bread and it lands on the buttered side it's all random it's all excuse the expression a crap shoot and uh there's nothing to be angry about who you're going to be angry about uh it you know the the the the jungle animals in the Serengeti kill each other every day then the survival of the fittest uh works there uh nobody says it's terrible this is the nature of animals we're human beings and if we if we don't have a God we are no different than the animals in the Serengeti foreign so and if if life Heck if life has no if there is no God life has no meaning and if life has no meaning tragedy has no meaning and we just live in a nihilistic Society in the nihilistic world and uh whoever said eat and drink and be married for tomorrow you may die has a good point on the other hand if life has meaning then exactly how God created the world I don't know but I know that 3 300 plus years ago Hashem revealed himself at Sinai in a unique way to the Jewish people and gave the world and gave us 613 Commandments and it is through that that we develop a relationship with our God on an ongoing basis from the moment uh we wake up and say Madonna kiss the mezuzah put on fill in and go to work and keep Godly Consciousness in our work to keep us under straight and narrow and not to cheat and not to things of that type so it's the ongoing relationship that is constantly nurtured that gives us the strength to find Hashem in the Torah and that seems like a paradox if Hashem is in charge that means Hashem willed this tragic event and at the very same time he is with us and feeling our pain did it change your relationship with the Reba that the rabbit Daven on her behalf in Hashem said no was the rebel with how did the Reba help you following the tragedy oh you said this is an honest conversation okay so first of all um after my wife passed away while I was still in the hospital I had to wait for that above mentioned interview with the police before they would let me go home um I called back the rabbit's office and the secretary the rabbi had a number of secretaries uh one of the secretaries happened to be my brother-in-law Rabbi Benjamin Klein who is now Oliver shalom and I told him that it's after the fact he didn't tell it to me then but he told me it months later um that when he went into the rubber to inform the rubber that my wife had passed away and the rep knew me personally knew that my wife personally knew my wife's family he was to the extent that he was close to certain families uh he was quite close to my wife's family um and my brother-in-law described to me the reva's reaction a a serious Paul came over the rubbish face he lifted his hands I don't know if you can see it and he likely when you have a question he didn't say a word but why he didn't I'm putting in words and again why and then there ever put on his face a a a image of pain and threw his hands down that and you can put in words uh to that if you want to the words that I would put would not be very nice I wouldn't attribute it to the Reba but uh which meant to me that the rabbit couldn't come to terms with an easy either and to you know some strange way that is comforting it wasn't that I'm a little guy I don't understand uh the rapper doesn't understand and the rabbit is not at peace with this and the rapper you know in subsequent times they ever spoke about when tragedies happen in Crown Heights did rabbit cried to Hashem in in private and in public why why do these do these things happen it's not given to a man to understand it's not given to man to understand because Hashem transcends understanding and also and I mentioned this in the book If we were able to understand we would accept and the a booster doesn't want us to accept tragedy the Avista wants us to fight for for goodness and kindness that's why uh you know that's why so many uh good people have organizations to help people going through crisis and going through tragedy with finances with food with these are the kinds of things that's at a certain point we realize that as Arabic Jonathan sack said the question is not why that is God's business the question is what are we supposed to do now and did the rabba write your letters was the rep is still in touch afterwards how did help you through it ah the rapper number one wrote a condolence letter to the family which I I I I won't use the term it was a standard uh um condolence letter even though many other people got similar letters but it was a letter written specifically to me into my children number one um I will add again like human interest prior to my wife's passing I had been asked a month before to speak at the annual convention which is in Crown Heights uh usually the weekend before shavuas starts Thursday in Shabbos and they have a dinner this was 1986 not like they have today and it wasn't the schluchas convention it was from All Over America and they asked me to speak I don't know they uh and then my wife passed away I had every right and I would have been totally forgiven if I said sorry I'm gonna have to pass this year uh but I thought that the right thing to do is to keep that appointment and use it to honor uh my wife and I spoke about my wife's name was Rocco Leia and who was Rocco and who was Leia it's it's in this week's Saturdays so it's a current event today uh and they're different characters and their different roles and how my wife was a Rocco and Anna Leia she had both names and um uh the honored her I honors her that way um Robert Brody you have a follow-up yeah I'm just wondering Rebecca Goldberg mentioned um he asked you about your children earlier and the reaction they had and how it was when you went to go and speak to them but I'm just wondering do you find that children react Better or Worse to a crisis in other words because they're younger they they don't understand the concepts of amuna in the same way that an adult might is it is is it you know how did how did how do they react to such a to such a crisis foreign children are little adults and adults are very often little children um I'm not a psychologist um I didn't complete the answer your previous question about uh references to what the rabbi wrote to me or you know no it's my fault I I so I I when I went in to New York for the convention for the for for the sheikhabad convention I had two days that I can actually think and I wrote then I wrote a letter to the rep but one I remember this thing one of the letters that I wrote to the rep one of the points I wrote to the river was why are the kids acting so normal they just lost a mother how come they're acting so normal uh little did I know that They too had the resilience and wanted to go back to a normal pattern where they go to school every day and they do their homework uh instead of sitting home sucking their thumb uh which the 16 year olds can get away with it but not the older ones but fast forward the next year and the next year and the next year and the times that I got a call from the principal of the school that they were going to this son who was sweet and kind and docile and is suddenly acting acting up in a way that uh uh shocked his principle they are people and like sometimes we cover up but there were things going on uh underneath underneath that was uh uh little volcanoes we try to have a group therapy session with the whole family and we asked friends who are in the mental health field and they said this is too much for me I'm going to get my professor at UCLA and the whole family went down to the professor at UCLA a wonderful Jewish woman and after 15 minutes she said this is too big for me wow but but I did write to the river and the rabbi gave me an interesting answer um there ever said my neighbors to give us a person a mission he certainly gives them the strength to fulfill the mission uh appropriate properly or appropriately um which there ever ex pointed out which means you can do it with joy and and good and and good heart and then they'll be added especially when this includes carrying the role of a mother as also to the extent possible um and I have to tell you I was not happy with that answer I wanted sympathy and I got an adult marching order carry on uh it took me a probably two months before I can integrate the driver's answer personally uh I know the rep but knows me and I know the rebel was kind and caring uh and I had to accept that the rapper looks at me as an adult not as a child uh I I I I I I did have maturity to a certain extent but as I said inside every adult is a little child we all meet that little child every once in a while uh and that little child wanted uh empathy from there ever and you know reading between the lines you might find it there but on the surface it was you're an adult you have responsibilities take care of them and I will add an anecdote which is appropriate for this question that is I have a son who is now he's he's a Schlage in Atlanta and 12 years ago a little more than 12 years ago I know the date because it was shortly before a certain uh criteria that took place this was a few weeks before um my son says to me you know Kathy can we go out and have a schmooze yeah I said fine it's one of the things I came for I was hoping we can have a smores about something um and he starts talking about his cousin his first cousin I was a few years younger than him a wonderful guy a great character Australia can Tyson's Corner Virginia uh he has a Chabad house he has a shoe and as the family knew and his community knew he was dying from lung cancer and it was getting worse and worse and they did all sorts of uh different kinds of uh procedures from surgeries to chemother whatever whatever is done and he was losing the battle and my son was very upset and his question was why this is happening how is he supposed to understand this and I as his father and a couple of years older than him in my mind I was saying well I'm going to tell him this and I'm going to tell him that and I'm going to tell him this and that and when he finished speaking before I opened my mouth I said to myself everything that I have on my mind to tell him he knows that yes he's a rabbi in the community he knows the very same things that I'm going to tell him so why should I tell him something that he already knows hmm and I looked him and I said Eli Yahoo do you want an answer or do you want a hug he was shocked to hear that come out of my mouth frankly so was I and he and he looked at me his eyes teared up and he says I want a hug and I gave him a hug like I haven't given him for 30 years before that and then the conversation was over when we moved on when a person is in a crisis he's not a Kaylee or doesn't want an answer he wants a hug he wants the pain to go away and whatever you can do to help the pain go away that's what he needs uh you know adults uh don't usually go around saying I really need a hug today so they couch that Challenge and that pain in oh if only I had an answer my problems would be solved no these kinds of problems don't get solved with an answer because the answer uh if it's a good answer it goes to the mind but the question is not coming from the mind the questions coming from the heart or the question is coming from the gut so the first therapy is to address the gut with emotional support religious support whatever whatever kind of support the person needs the alternative don't Comfort a person while his deceased is lying before him uh you gotta have the distance so that rational conversation uh will provide support at the time of Crisis you that is almost inoperative give support and give support again and again until the person is able to move to the next stage that's fantastic advice Robert we're sending you a big hug and we thank you for letting us go behind the bema for sharing your wisdom and and and unfortunate tragic life experience that you've hopefully turned into uh can support comfort for others and uh slowly encourage people to read the book it's uh important and inspiring and we wish you all the best thank you for are going behind the Beamer and sending you a very big hug thank you all right Brody take away thought wow wow not an easy one not he's been through a lot I can't I can't can't even begin to imagine can't imagine what the kids said was the most powerful to me that conversation with his son but sometimes we think we have to have the answers or explanations sometimes we rush in to say something smart yeah and sometimes what the other person really needs dog they want to feel heard they want to feel validated they want to hug that's it somebody to know they exist somebody to acknowledge their suffering someone to validate their question or challenge or search for Hashem in difficult circumstances sometimes people just need a hug we try to do more than that we hurt them and if we just give a hug we're helping them you know it's funny there's so many times where you get a phone call from someone and you know it's going to be an issue that they just need to they have a problem and I guess they're calling you because you have a solution I can't tell you how many times because I don't know what the solution is I'm not if it's if it's a real serious problem I just helps call you but but many times what will happen is that after a couple of minutes they'll say that the conversation ends and they say yeah wow that was amazing thank you so much and I really I didn't say one thing I just listened yes listen I think that's the most sometimes we just need someone to listen to us and they are next Out of the Shadows episode is about trauma it's coming out soon and a lot of conversation about that yeah often part of the therapy for people have been through trauma trauma could mean you know messy divorce product of a messy divorce trauma can mean abuse physical sexual emotional trauma can mean many things trauma can mean you're in a bad car accident trauma can mean a lot of things um and what I learned and I'm learning in preparing this episode is that in many cases part of the um treatment for trauma is just listening it's letting someone tell their story is letting someone emote letting someone share is letting someone get that out so um yeah that was I thought that was very powerful very powerful I like what you said about the hug I think that's also such a it's a lost art you know although Corona separated us we weren't allowed to hug I'd rather I'd rather hug than shake a hand yeah yeah I'd be okay if I never shook a hand again yeah but I would never be okay if I couldn't hug yeah yeah that's great no I'm saying you walk into Schuler you see someone you know you just you could tell someone needs a hug you give a hug it's it's nice it is you know when you're going for that hug and sometimes it could be awkward like which side do you hug on and arms and do Pat so there's a guy in our show Charlie yeah and whenever I see him I don't see him enough he's not here enough but when I go into hug he always makes me hug him on the right side because he says when you do that the heart is touching the heart you gotta hug with the heart touching the heart yeah that that assumes that he's as you're as tall as the other guy with me it's always weird I'm like on my toes I'm just trying I'm just trying to make this looks the other guy's bending down why don't you carry like a stool around I should that's funny you know I'm sure follow the Torah you walk around shul you should carry his stool I know what they feel like because it's like when I go and hug my son Eton who's eight because I come in here or maybe your next Doc Martens exactly people after last episode we talked about your Dr Morgan's Peter wanted to know if they have Platforms in them no they just they're just naturally just a naturally big so that's why you're wearing them to get a few extra inches no no how do I say there are Doc Martens that actually do have a lot of hype but these are the standard Doc Martens they don't have any height any more height than necessary the bottom line is everyone's got to show a lot of love and and it shows a lot of love yeah I went to a funeral today such a sad funeral I've spoken about this in the pasture class in Winter sheer yeah um you know you actually know the person very special person uh Gill Mellon Dr melon and um I never met him until last week I got a phone call that he lives in Woodfield Country Club not an observant family was taking his duties and much more seriously found our shiram online started listening printing out our partial perspective right up would read it at his Shabbos table and um I always told his daughter who who he particularly loved learning with you know we'll make it to BRS eventually I want to meet Rabbi Goldberg studying with him listening to so much total we'll meet him and uh Juni was diagnosed with a terrible illness and last week he had a he had a big stroke and he was in the hospice in a coma his family called me and said it was you know it was a drink to meet he listened and learned could you come I come of course I'd come he came and he couldn't he wasn't really conscious couldn't really respond though with his eyes closed and paralyzed in half his body after I did speak to him from the heart he put out his hand put out his hand held his hand and and then he passed away not not that moment he passed away on on Monday the funeral was today but it was interesting because I I didn't know him I didn't know him right everything I learned I learned at the funeral I told his family I said you know I only met him in person once and even then I didn't really meet him but our souls connected we were at Sinai together because if you study Torah with someone if you're if Torah is the the language of connection then your souls are connected even if you're not physically overlapping but anyway I learned at the at the funeral that he was 57 years old I think his mother died in her 40s so wow when when he knew he was a neuroradiologist he knew what was happening to him he prepared his kids because he went through it himself so he told them you know it'll be unbearably painful and time will help and heal um there's also an amazing line he was with his family he was with his wife and at one point he looked outside and he said you know after I'm Gone the World's Gonna keep going on and then he stopped and he looked around at his family and he said but my world is right here hmm it's very powerful it's powerful lines wow you know the the Malik said better to go to a funeral than a than a party go to a party it's festive it's joyous it's fun if you go to funeral you learn something you know you sit there and you're moved to want to be better different family my kids know like I'm on my way back from a funeral because all of a sudden I start texting them like sappy stuff or I love them or when am I going to see you or you've been like we spend more time together right because you know after a funeral it's you're moved your move to become better and I certainly was from this um but I also learned a very powerful lesson don't wait there's someone you want to meet or a conversation you want to have I have such regrets this person who's been listening for months and reading and listening to have lunch coffee get in touch come to BRS join our community be part of what we have going like um so it did break my heart break my heart broke my heart a little bit well if anyone wants to get uh I guess to go out with Rabbi Goldberg just call me I'll take care of you yeah so how people need hugs but anyway I thought of that because you could lose you could lose a parent at a young age but it doesn't have to Define you he went on to build a beautiful family and live a beautiful life so a lot to think about from tonight's conversation and lots of digest how to believe in heaven even when it hurts like heck it's for my kids in case they're watching it hurts like heck I didn't have the guts to ask him I was on the edge of my lips but I didn't ask him was the thinking behind the title was he concern that he double hockey sticks I don't I don't I don't know that that's even a bad word in today's standards it doesn't matter if you think about what's on you know people are exposed to I don't know if that even makes the list anymore it's true vulgarity I like to listen and learn I don't I don't have a commute and I don't drive often so I don't really get a chance to listen yeah but when so today I went to the funeral sometimes I drive I listen to a podcast and it's amazing to me how many of the popular podcasters who are brilliant they have so much Insight but they can't speak without profanity vulgarity they can't communicate their message without bombs bursting in there so um I don't know why that is I'd say it used to be it wasn't even that long ago people would be like if they say something in front they'd be like oh it's Rabbi I'm sorry they don't say that anymore yeah those days are long gone no not even anymore yeah exactly yeah long over in any case it was a powerful conversation a lot to think about none of us should know from it we should all have simcha's only joyous things on Happy occasions and good and inspiring guests we got great guests coming up great conversations happening we're still all dominating hard for high Estates I can't wait to have everybody moscowitz back please God and to share hopefully good news hopefully this beautiful family we miss him terribly and uh maybe for next week I just realized maybe we could have opened up with this because we had some breaking news this week big golf tournament to support Israel couple awards were given out now I don't know how accurate or fair that award was you know by we're gonna we're gonna we might have to bring on some weeks we're gonna talk about that next week might have to bring out some eyewitnesses so we'll prepare the evidence question cross-examination cross-examination uh until next time I guess we welcome Your sponsorship if you enjoy behind the bema yeah and you'd like to sponsor we'd love your support the money doesn't come to us personally it all goes to BRS to help promote our values our ideals our Torah so we'd love Your sponsorship you go to brsonline.org sponsor brsonline.org sponsor until next time stay happy stay healthy and stay holy